The Smiley Smile Message Board

 Brian has stated that the pot and LSD helped his creativity, and this isn't a "pro drug" post......but some of the medication that Brian has been on through the years to treat his social anxiety and manic depression seem to have taken his edge away. It keeps him centered, but haven't most creative geniuses been tortured artists full of angst? They are able to see the world with wonder and awe one moment and then be able to spill out beautiful melodies during moments of deep despair. In Brian's case, there are so many variables and combinations of events that have brought him to where he is at, that we can only speculate on all the "what if" scenarios. One could argue that Brian started to lose his edge after Smile. One could say that most great works of artists are accomplished before they turn 30, and that the creative fire lessens with age. Is it possible for a man in his 60's to get back in the mind set of his 20's?  If Brian had been left free to pursue his creative muse, where would he have progressed after Smile? What if............

Good question. I think Brian was pretty damn creative before drugs. I mean if something like She Knows Me Too Well (recorded summer of 64) is an indicator, I think Pet Sounds (if not Smile or Smiley Smile) would have come to be anyway. Many have pointed out that Brian had issues well before 1967. What happened probably would have happened anyhow. In fact I would say mid 67-mid 71 was probably a better period for Brian then the end of 66 first part of 67. His weight dropped, the tention within the band was gone. Until Surf's Up was used in 1971 I think he certainly was on far better terms with the others then had been since Party, and also better then he would ever be later. I think the use of Surf's Up is a real breaking pint for Brian as a Beach Boy.
I mean I think Brian was completely innovative on
Wild Honey (back to basics RnB before Dylan or The Beatles or The Stones),
Friends (salsa rock, semi acoustic singer songwriter types of things),
Or Sunflower (use of Moog, vocal complexities, sound pictures)
Even Holland has the MT. Vernon faire tale something totally different then anything he had done before.
Smile, if it had come out, would have been lauded but I think it would be placed more in the context of continued progression, that went on at least through 1972 or so.
 Would he have produced the 67-72 material on his own if Smile had been? Well I think Carl and Dennis had too much creativity to keep inside. I also think that with stereo replacing mono completely, those records may have had the others input more then before. Sure the loss of Smile was hard, but I can't see things going all that much differently unless Brian would have never taken drugs in the first place or at least had gotten the right help in 64-5.

Today Brian is in his 60s and for a man his age I think he is fairly creative. I think only Dylan has kept up with him myself, but yes his best work is recycling things he wrote up to 40 years ago. Is there anything made past around 1980 by a 60s rocker that matches their "Classic" stuff? Perhaps but I don't think it is a common occurrence

If Brian's meds give him any problems, the most likely one is erectile dysfunction.

 :) :-D ;D ::) >:D :afro :3d  :angel: :police: :lol :hat ;) :p 8)

and there are meds for that too

Obviously it could be yes considering the output. Plus I think the meds have made him much more lazy, which is so deadly for an artist to be. Do I think something should be done about it? It's up to Melinda and the doctors but if things would change, I doubt it.

Medication for treatment of psychosis and mood disorders tends to even out extreme moods,  good ones, bad ones, and creative ones.  For example, SSRI's limit cognitive arousal.  This spills over into other areas limiting feelings of elation as well as sadness. 

But, one cannot expect another human being to suffer for ones entertainment.

I'd like to see someone give Brian an open invitation to put a band together and record WHATEVER he would like, taking as much time as he wants, using the studio and equipment of his choosing.  We might be surprised.

Maybe Brian doesn't want to record or make music or tour? Maybe he's sick of it all. As far as letting him do what he wants, who in Brian's life is telling him what music he can and can't make? If his managers, wife and band are picking his material it's probably because he doesn't give a damn, and won't get off his ass, forcing them to take control. Which makes me wonder, why are they even trying to make new records to begin with? If Brian doesn't want to do it, then there truly is no point.

I think getting older took his edge away more than anything else. I mean, look at all those radical, creative rockers in their late 50s and early 60s: Wilson, McCartney, Mick Jagger, Eric Clapton, Paul Simon, zzzzzzzzzzzzz. They get old. You're more correct in the latter part of your post, which I also quoted above: much (most?) really innovative, creative art seems to come from younger people, and that has certainly been true of rock, which is primarily an art of the young.

Brian has given more than his share.  Maybe he just wants to retire like alot of guys in their 60s.  I'm sure that psychotropic medications will alter one's "creativity".  How does one quantify something as subjective as "creativity" anyway?  Does "good" music have to always be "creative"? 

This is a topic that I've thought a lot about over the years. However, not being a doctor, and not being able to separate the degree of damage done by the drugs vs. the damage done by the mental illness - well, I still have questions.

I suppose I do put more "blame" on the drug abuse than the mental illness. Actually, I sometimes even categorize Brian's music by his drug intake and even the types of drugs he was ingesting. It usually goes something like this"

1961-1964  few drugs; "innocent" years, youthful energy, young love
1965-1966  experimenting with drugs; adventurous, dynamic, "music from the cosmos"
1967-1973  drugs turning negative; something's not quite right, getting darker, fragile
1974-1982  drugs have caused permanent damage; wasted, illogical, "different" Brian
1983-2006  no illegal drugs; dull, not as creative, "deer in the headlights" music

But, as somebody posted above, taking drugs as a means for creativity or entertainment is not the answer. Knowing what he knows now, and the condition he finds himself in, I wonder if Brian had the opportunity to go back and do it all over again, if he would stay clear of the drugs, or....

I can say with a bit of certainty that this isn't true....as you may find out.

I don't think Brian will ever get sick of creating music...I just don't think that he's always necessarily interested in putting out an album for the sake of putting out an album.  Brian will create until he physically can't do it anymore, but maybe he'd rather just do it and have that be it, something like his years of what he called "bedroom singing".

As for the drugs, I'm not sure Brian would be willing to trade away stuff like Pet Sounds and Good Vibrations in exchange for never getting into the drug scene.  I remember reading an interview with him, and the guy asked him what his biggest regret from his life was.  Brian said it was not having the chance to get the timing right on the chorus to "California Girls".  Read into that what you will, but I'm not so sure that Brian regrets his intitial forays into drugs. 

I tend to take the opposite view of Sheriff, in that I think that the mental illness was ultimately more responsible for Brian's issues throughout his life.  The drugs were Brian's attempt at combating the mental problems once music wasn't enough on its own.  I think that Brian would have ended up mentally ill to some degree regardless of the drugs; the drugs were just a mechanism that made the severity of the mental issues even worse, especially by the early to mid '70's.  But drugs did not really hurt Brian until his mental problems rapidly spun out of control. 

Chris Brown is right.  Mental illness really came to the fore in early 1967.  The drugs while fashionable at one point...became a means of self medication.  It's referred to as a dual diagnosis in mental health circles.  However, I wouldn't chalk up Pet Sounds and Good Vibrations inspiration to mind altering substances - I think that is a more or less romantic notion in looking back at the 60s.  Certainly Brian's substance abuse in the 70s was self-destructive and Landy's malpractice was about as bad in the end.

Drugs are something Brian has said he regrets. I have read him say this more then once.

Brian has also said that drugs helped the creativity.  I was at first surprised to hear this but have heard it more than once.

Its a two edged sword.  Anyone who has ever experimented with substance use/abuse probably knows this.

Amphetamine abuse, which Brian indulged in enthusiastically for many years is known to sometimes lead to psychiatric symptoms indistinguishable from schizophrenia.  It can also play a hell with mood disorders.

I believe Brian was predisposed to mental illness and the drugs triggered the initial breakdown and exacerbated his symptoms over many years.   One will often  find old schizophrenics, even on medication  unable to work or do much of anything but take walks and watch TV.  I'll bet Brian was medicated with phenthiazines for many years before the current atypicals became available.  He appears to have tardive dyskinesia.

The fact that a guy with his background, who is retirement age, is still able to do a major music tour and perform his own original compositions is a huge accomplishment.  It is plenty.  It is enough.

I agree.

I have bad news for you , we are aging at more or less the same rate and yes, that includes you.  It's not like it's something that's only happening to them.

What I percieve is that the highly rated musicians of this age group generally can (and often do these days) perform at a rather high level.  Usually they are better technicians than they were in their heyday.  They often can write and create good studio tracks but can't come up with the compelling sets of lyrics like they could when they were younger.  I think that this is partially because they live a more retiring lifestyle now.  It is also hard (if not impossible) for them to convincingly write about a 25 year olds life experience event.  It's like writing lyrics for 13 year olds when you are in your 30's.  Even if you were in the '1910 Fruit Gum Company' I think that you are about done with that stuff by then.   There are some topics that might make more sense but they don't sell that well and tend to just get treated with a chuckle: Something like what Rambling Jack Elliot just did - "Arthritis Blues". 
If you aren't a blues person or a populist Guthrie, Dylan, Springsteen type it's harder to come up with stuff to write at this point of life.  Having said that I do feel that I know of subject material for a compelling original artistic work that Brian could write and record - right now.
 
               

He told Rolling Stone (I believe) last year when asked how often he has sex

"Twice a day, every day"  - BW

I would be surprised if he did anything.  Didn't they do that, already, in the 1970's and he didn't do jack sh*t?  For proof of this, notice nearly all the pictures of him from the mid 70's were taken in his bedroom. 

What's that quote,

"Do all that you can do, and if all that you can do is all that you can do; that's enough"

I think that was Brian having some fun with the interviewer.

At least 30 years ago, I remember reading a Rolling Stone article on Brian and/or The Beach Boys, and Brian told the interviewer that he was practicing abstinence to improve his creativity! I remember wincing and thinking "poor Marilyn". I wish I could remember what year that interview was from, so I could look at which album came out after that interview - to see if it worked!

"The Healing of Brother Bri" - November '76.

(http://i.rollingstone.com/assets/rs/13/512/images/22680_lg.jpg)

It may have worked. Others quibble with the quality of Brian's 76/77 work but the fact remains that he was quite prolific in the songwriting area.

He also said in an interview with USA Today to promote Imagination that him and Melinda hardly had sex.  :-\


Oh yeah, but one thing I noticed is that brief period of time I was on prescribed antidepressants, I felt like sh*t and didn't want to put any effort into music (or really anything). I went back to the herb REAL quick.

He didn't say with whom did he?  Perhaps self-inflicted. Eeeooo.

How can I put this? He said Murry told him (after catching him treating his body like an amusement park) told him that when a man finishes it messes him up in sports or energy something like that. So therefore he doesn't like to *ahem* finish.

That's terrible.

i have an interview from around '77 with brian to promote the upcoming love you lp. brian says he has sex but "doesn't come, by not coming sperm backs up to the pineal gland and then one become cosmically conscious". something eastern goups do. his words, not mine.
marilyn at that time said they have sex but that brian didn't come.
from the '76-'77 era interviews.

I recall from a course on India in college that either some Hindus or some Jainists believed that. I think they called it tapas (not to be confused with Spanish appetizers), which, when saved up instead of being wasted, brought power to a person.

I don't mind being powerless, personally.

No joke. I'm weak as hell,and proud! ;)

Is that the one sided Crawdaddy LP? I don't remember that on the tape someone made of it for me. I should hunt it down.

"I've got my secret here.  I don't tell anybody my secret. I have a secret... I'll tell you anyway: I don't have any sex, OK? The secret is abstaining from orgasm. An Einsteinian formula that if you abstain for having an orgasm for, say, ten years, you create a void in your brain. In other words, if you don't express an orgasm for ten years, it's a long time, right? Most people thinks two weeks without an orgasm is a long enough time.
And I did that, y' know? My dad told me in high school: 'Son, now you're gonna be going through a lot of hell as you grow up, and the one thing you should never do is you should not have orgasms and masturbate and you should not f*** with girls.' And I tried it out.  I'd been jacking off all summer, y' know? And towards the end of the summer, I'm going into my junior year in high school and my dad lays that on me. I go there and I try it out and I say: 'What the f*** is this sh*t? Hey, wait a minute, man, I like not coming better than coming!' And I kept going that way for a long, long time and finally I came to the conclusion that I'm gonna tell people my secret. But I just don't want some chick to go: "Oh, that's your secret? Well here, I'll make you come'... Ain't that a weird trip?"

Vox, December 1995. One of Brian's craziest interviews.

Gotta agree with Brian...that WAS a weird trip!