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Smiley Smile Stuff => General On Topic Discussions => Topic started by: Pretty Funky on May 21, 2020, 08:13:07 PM



Title: Mike Love Planning New Vocal Album
Post by: Pretty Funky on May 21, 2020, 08:13:07 PM
Hmmm...I wonder if he knows any other vocalists sitting out the summer at home who might be interested?  ;)
Specifically someone familiar with arranging Four Freshman style harmonies.

http://abcnewsradioonline.com/music-news/2020/5/21/the-beach-boys-mike-love-is-planning-a-new-album-focusing-on.html

The Beach Boys Mike Love Is Planning A New Album Focusing On Vocal Harmonies

By MATT FRIEDLANDER, ABC News

Founding Beach Boys singer Mike Love recently released a new solo single titled "This Too Shall Pass," that offers a message of hope and positivity during the coronavirus pandemic.

The 79-year-old Rock & Roll Hall of Famer, who is self-quarantining with members of his family at his home on Lake Tahoe in Nevada, says life in lockdown is giving him an opportunity to focus on being creative. He tells ABC Audio that he has plans for a couple of other new projects, one of which will focus on a musical style that inspired the early Beach Boys.

"I'd love to do [an album] focusing mostly on the vocals," Mike explains. "'Cause I think the thing that's distinguished The Beach Boys from so many other groups is the the four-part harmonies that we...learned...from The Four Freshmen."

Love notes that at their recent shows, The Beach Boys had been performing an a cappella rendition of "Their Hearts Were Full of Spring" -- which was written by Bobby Troup and recorded by The Four Freshmen in 1961. It's a tune that his group first performed live during the 1960s.

Regarding the new album, Mike says, "I want to take that style of singing and apply it to some songs that have never been treated that way. Songs that a lot of people love. Maybe a couple of them from the Beach Boys catalog, but not just restricted to that."

Meanwhile, Love tells ABC Audio that because of the pandemic, he'll likely be spending the summer at home.  It's something he hasn't done for decades, since The Beach Boys always are on tour during the summer touring season.

Copyright © 2020, ABC Audio. All rights reserved.


Title: Re: Mike Love Planning New Vocal Album
Post by: CenturyDeprived on May 21, 2020, 11:00:55 PM
No Autotune, please. Despite the fact that I did not care for his latest effort whatsoever, his vocals were surprisingly strong and didn't sound like they were caked with this dastardly program's "wonders". He doesn't need Autotune, just actual effort and more takes. Whoever is responsible for UTL disc 2 should receive a lifetime ban from ever entering any recording studio on this planet.


Title: Re: Mike Love Planning New Vocal Album
Post by: phirnis on May 22, 2020, 12:23:49 AM
Give us a four-part harmony version of "Rockin' the Man in the Boat"!


Title: Re: Mike Love Planning New Vocal Album
Post by: Rocker on May 22, 2020, 02:28:05 AM
Through the years I have learned not to expect too much whenever Mike uses the word "creative" or something similar. But good for him if he gets some music done during these times. Maybe there will even be some interesting arrangement, performance etc.


Title: Re: Mike Love Planning New Vocal Album
Post by: MyDrKnowsItKeepsMeCalm on May 22, 2020, 06:49:05 AM
I think it's a great goal to go after 'Their Hearts Were Full of Spring'-style vocals. I will hold out hope. :)



Title: Re: Mike Love Planning New Vocal Album
Post by: NateRuvin on May 22, 2020, 09:00:38 AM
Wow, this sounds wonderful . I can't wait!!!


Title: Re: Mike Love Planning New Vocal Album
Post by: HeyJude on May 22, 2020, 11:45:33 AM
Interesting that Mike isn't particularly interested in actually writing *new* material (his three recent solo albums have, as I recall, around 10% actual possibly newly-written material on them). I don't think anybody involved with the BBs ever needs to do a FULL ALBUM of covers again.

And, while the singers Mike works with now are absolutely solid and professional, they're extremely anonymous-sounding. It's very much like the competent but uber-bland backing vocals on "Looking Back with Love."

I guess if he tosses this project into Totten's lap and Totten does most of the actual work doing new vocal arrangements, then it might be a step above straight covers. But Mike's description of this idea is pretty nebulous to begin with. What he's describing doesn't actually sound any different from what he already does. He has Totten (or whatever producer) layer knock-off BB harmonies behind either old Mike outtakes, an occasional new Mike song, a BB cover, or a cover of something else. Unless Mike's talking about a "a cappella" album, then what he's describing is more of the same.


Title: Re: Mike Love Planning New Vocal Album
Post by: Lonely Summer on May 22, 2020, 12:23:37 PM
Interesting that Mike isn't particularly interested in actually writing *new* material (his three recent solo albums have, as I recall, around 10% actual possibly newly-written material on them). I don't think anybody involved with the BBs ever needs to do a FULL ALBUM of covers again.

And, while the singers Mike works with now are absolutely solid and professional, they're extremely anonymous-sounding. It's very much like the competent but uber-bland backing vocals on "Looking Back with Love."

I guess if he tosses this project into Totten's lap and Totten does most of the actual work doing new vocal arrangements, then it might be a step above straight covers. But Mike's description of this idea is pretty nebulous to begin with. What he's describing doesn't actually sound any different from what he already does. He has Totten (or whatever producer) layer knock-off BB harmonies behind either old Mike outtakes, an occasional new Mike song, a BB cover, or a cover of something else. Unless Mike's talking about a "a cappella" album, then what he's describing is more of the same.
I would describe most of the material on disc 1 of Unleash the Love as new original material - never mind that the project had started many years before, it had never been properly released.
I don't have any hope, though, that this album focused on vocals will evoke Smiley Smile.  :afro


Title: Re: Mike Love Planning New Vocal Album
Post by: HeyJude on May 22, 2020, 03:15:04 PM
Interesting that Mike isn't particularly interested in actually writing *new* material (his three recent solo albums have, as I recall, around 10% actual possibly newly-written material on them). I don't think anybody involved with the BBs ever needs to do a FULL ALBUM of covers again.

And, while the singers Mike works with now are absolutely solid and professional, they're extremely anonymous-sounding. It's very much like the competent but uber-bland backing vocals on "Looking Back with Love."

I guess if he tosses this project into Totten's lap and Totten does most of the actual work doing new vocal arrangements, then it might be a step above straight covers. But Mike's description of this idea is pretty nebulous to begin with. What he's describing doesn't actually sound any different from what he already does. He has Totten (or whatever producer) layer knock-off BB harmonies behind either old Mike outtakes, an occasional new Mike song, a BB cover, or a cover of something else. Unless Mike's talking about a "a cappella" album, then what he's describing is more of the same.
I would describe most of the material on disc 1 of Unleash the Love as new original material - never mind that the project had started many years before, it had never been properly released.
I don't have any hope, though, that this album focused on vocals will evoke Smiley Smile.  :afro

I was speaking more about Mike's current drive or ability (or lack thereof) to write new material. Out of the 25 tracks on "Unleash the Love", 13 are BB covers, and almost all of the remaining 12 "original" songs come from either the 1978 "First Love" era, or his early 2000s solo sessions (and in many cases both, as the early 2000s project was the same deal with reusing the '78 stuff). At least three of the 12 "originals" had literally already been released, as in, the exact same recordings (and possibly mixes).

Now, of course as we all know, the BBs mining old projects for new albums is nothing new, both group and solo. But when we're talking about writing new material, Mike seems to not have the drive or ability. When it *is* presumably new, we get something like "This Too Shall Pass" that is musically heavily derivative, and has cringe-worthy lyrics.

I'd be fine with Mike using old material if it was material we hadn't heard before and/or was material that hadn't already been released.

I tend to cut these guys plenty of slack. *None* of them are as prolific or driven as they were 50/40/30 years ago. Al has his own studio for 40+ years and can only muster *one* solo album. Brian's albums have often reused old material, and/or had plenty of guidance from collaborators.

Mike doing another covers album reminds me of news several years back when Tom Scholz released his once-per-decade Boston album, and it used tracks from the *previous* Boston album that even diehard fans largely seemed to hate.

I remember Al a few years back saying he wanted to re-record "Runaway!" Nooo!

All these guys should just let an engineer go through and pick and album's worth of outtakes we've never heard, then polish them up, and put that out. I know Brian and Al have *tons* of material they could put out. I'd wager even Mike does too.


Title: Re: Mike Love Planning New Vocal Album
Post by: Lonely Summer on May 22, 2020, 10:16:39 PM
Interesting that Mike isn't particularly interested in actually writing *new* material (his three recent solo albums have, as I recall, around 10% actual possibly newly-written material on them). I don't think anybody involved with the BBs ever needs to do a FULL ALBUM of covers again.

And, while the singers Mike works with now are absolutely solid and professional, they're extremely anonymous-sounding. It's very much like the competent but uber-bland backing vocals on "Looking Back with Love."

I guess if he tosses this project into Totten's lap and Totten does most of the actual work doing new vocal arrangements, then it might be a step above straight covers. But Mike's description of this idea is pretty nebulous to begin with. What he's describing doesn't actually sound any different from what he already does. He has Totten (or whatever producer) layer knock-off BB harmonies behind either old Mike outtakes, an occasional new Mike song, a BB cover, or a cover of something else. Unless Mike's talking about a "a cappella" album, then what he's describing is more of the same.
I would describe most of the material on disc 1 of Unleash the Love as new original material - never mind that the project had started many years before, it had never been properly released.
I don't have any hope, though, that this album focused on vocals will evoke Smiley Smile.  :afro

I was speaking more about Mike's current drive or ability (or lack thereof) to write new material. Out of the 25 tracks on "Unleash the Love", 13 are BB covers, and almost all of the remaining 12 "original" songs come from either the 1978 "First Love" era, or his early 2000s solo sessions (and in many cases both, as the early 2000s project was the same deal with reusing the '78 stuff). At least three of the 12 "originals" had literally already been released, as in, the exact same recordings (and possibly mixes).

Now, of course as we all know, the BBs mining old projects for new albums is nothing new, both group and solo. But when we're talking about writing new material, Mike seems to not have the drive or ability. When it *is* presumably new, we get something like "This Too Shall Pass" that is musically heavily derivative, and has cringe-worthy lyrics.

I'd be fine with Mike using old material if it was material we hadn't heard before and/or was material that hadn't already been released.

I tend to cut these guys plenty of slack. *None* of them are as prolific or driven as they were 50/40/30 years ago. Al has his own studio for 40+ years and can only muster *one* solo album. Brian's albums have often reused old material, and/or had plenty of guidance from collaborators.

Mike doing another covers album reminds me of news several years back when Tom Scholz released his once-per-decade Boston album, and it used tracks from the *previous* Boston album that even diehard fans largely seemed to hate.

I remember Al a few years back saying he wanted to re-record "Runaway!" Nooo!

All these guys should just let an engineer go through and pick and album's worth of outtakes we've never heard, then polish them up, and put that out. I know Brian and Al have *tons* of material they could put out. I'd wager even Mike does too.
Okay, I must have missed something. Other than the oldies remade on disc 2 of UTL, what songs on that album had been released before?
Getcha Back, Brian is Back, Daybreak Over the Ocean, Cool Head, Warm Heart....that still lives a good chunk of material that was new to the general public.


Title: Re: Mike Love Planning New Vocal Album
Post by: RONDEMON on May 28, 2020, 08:19:52 AM
I love the idea in theory, but I have a feeling the vocal tuning would be so prominent that it'd sound that show Glee or Jacob Collier, who is uber-talented but a bit over the top and artificial-sounding.

If they recorded it around one mic and kept it pure and natural, I would be thrilled.

Plus, the concept isn't a very commercial idea in general, so why not keep it as real as possible?


Title: Re: Mike Love Planning New Vocal Album
Post by: NateRuvin on May 28, 2020, 09:55:26 AM
I'd be okay with the amount of vocal processing found 12 Sides... You know it's there, which is fine he's almost 80, but it's not overly noticeable like on NPP, C50 Live, or UTL.

That said, seeing these guys live, or even watching live clips, it's obvious they don't need it.

But working in the studio everyday, as sad is it sounds, time is money, and often people are willing to save time (therefore their money) by having an engineer simply fix a bad note.

Though, if he's getting producers like Sam Hollander, budget must not be an issue for Mike. Hollander's gotta be one of the hottest producer/writers in the world right now, certainly in a pop/rock/ac lane. He and his team are very talented guys, I'm predicting they'll be involved.

So if budget isn't the issue, which it often isn't, sometimes artists just like to be pitched corrected so they can move on to the next thing. And it's not laziness. When you're in the studio, you're getting a million ideas a second. Ideas for overdubs, mix changes, arrangement, etc... and autotune can be used to "fix" a vocal in order to better delegate time... That, and,  Getting a perfect take- going over and over again, the way Mike would've done in 1966, might not be comfortable at his age.

I'm not saying autotune SHOULD be used, I'd prefer it not, but people make it a very black and white issue. There are dozens of reasons one might bring up autotune during a session. It's another tool in the arsenal, like EQ or compression. Although, the 'tool' was abused on UTL...


To be fair, if I was producing Mike and his guys, I *wouldn't* be reaching for the autotune for every note. In retrospect, that seems to have been a production choice of Michael Lloyd, because everything he's produced for Mike is autotuned to the bone, but the stuff produced by Totten, Hollander, and Paul Fauerso all sound natural. I also think Mike must have picked up on the negative reaction to Lloyd's production, because he produced the entirety of UTL, and only one track each on the following albums. I can't imagine it's coincidental. Of course, it's natural to change collaborators but in 2017, it seemed like Lloyd was Mike's "guy" , production wise, until the backlash, at which point Hollander (&co) and Totten jumped in. (Hell, for better or worse, I hear little to no autotune at all on Mike's most recent 2020, Totten produced single)

The Lloyd produced Little Saint Nick from Mike's Christmas album sounds straight from the UTL sessions. Same sound of the instruments, same vocalists. It's Ok from 12 Sides looks like it also originated from the UTL sessions, based on the credits (Foskett on guitar, Lloyd playing multiple instruments) --- it would've fit in with the other Love-Wilson hits on disc 2 --- but production/arrangement wise, to my ears, it sounds more Hollander than Lloyd. I wonder if his team may have revisited it during the mixing process, or if he did any overdubs and didn't receive a producer's credit. It just sounds way bigger and more lively than anything Lloyd produced for Mike prior... Interesting to note, that looking in the credits, John Stamos plays drums on this. Funny because usually when he plays, he gets a feature credit.  But this is definitely my favorite studio performance of his, I would've thought it was Cowsill. I must give credit where its due, and his drumming on Its Ok is fantastic. The tom tom fills remind me of Dennis' feel.

Looking forward to Mike's new project. I've been pleased with his last three albums, they're big improvements over Looking Back, and quite honestly, on par with most of Brian's recent efforts, and Al's album. I think we're quite lucky as fans to have new BB related music to constantly look forward to, over the last few years. Be it archival releases, NPP and Brian's subsequent live album & compilation, Mike's stuff.... I know it's a lot to ask of someone his age, and he's made it pretty clear he has no interest, but I'd love to see what Bruce could kick up. Even if it wasn't all originals, his main skills have always  been in the arranging/production era in my mind (Rip Chords, Bruce & Terry, Sunflower/Surf's Up stuff, etc) I was watching an interview from around 2006-8 a few days ago where an interviewer asked Bruce if he had any new music in the works, and all Bruce said was "Stay tuned." over and over. Was this a "I'm gonna make a Rock n Roll album"/"Never say never" phrase, just meant to keep the interview rolling, or did anything ever surface from this?


Title: Re: Mike Love Planning New Vocal Album
Post by: guitarfool2002 on May 28, 2020, 11:26:53 AM
I'd be okay with the amount of vocal processing found 12 Sides... You know it's there, which is fine he's almost 80, but it's not overly noticeable like on NPP, C50 Live, or UTL.


Looking forward to Mike's new project. I've been pleased with his last three albums, they're big improvements over Looking Back, and quite honestly, on par with most of Brian's recent efforts, and Al's album.

First point: Can you please post an example of the "overly noticeable" vocal processing on NPP so others can hear what you're hearing? Just a track, maybe a 30 second clip within a track, etc...something specific to point to in other words from NPP with this overly noticeable processing, and what that processing is.

Second point: Of course it's opinion, and everyone has one, but in terms of the studio albums Brian Wilson has released as a solo artist in the past 15 years or so, here they are:

- Gettin In Over My Head
- Brian Wilson Presents Smile
- What I Really Want For Christmas
- That Lucky Old Sun
- Brian Wilson Reimagines Gershwin
- In The Key Of Disney
- No Pier Pressure

Again it's opinion, but saying Mike Love's last three solo discs are on par with most of those efforts seems a bit of a stretch.


Title: Re: Mike Love Planning New Vocal Album
Post by: Dutchie on May 28, 2020, 11:50:32 AM
Please stop this Brian vs Mike camp stuff. Everybody is in tital of his opinions. Dont go straight over Nate his opinion when he says that the efforts of Mike are the same as Brian. NPP is brian masterpiece and so is ULTL from Mike ( My opinion)

Just be glad that the beach boys release music no matter from who it comes.


Title: Re: Mike Love Planning New Vocal Album
Post by: guitarfool2002 on May 28, 2020, 11:56:52 AM
Please stop this Brian vs Mike camp stuff. Everybody is in tital of his opinions. Dont go straight over Nate his opinion when he says that the efforts of Mike are the same as Brian. NPP is brian masterpiece and so is ULTL from Mike ( My opinion)

Just be glad that the beach boys release music no matter from who it comes.

I'm asking for reasons behind those opinions and offering my own in return to help better understand where these viewpoints are coming from, that's what a discussion is for. If you don't wish to participate, don't participate.

I never bought into the "just be glad it's there" mindset. If I buy a meal at a restaurant and the meal sucks, I'm not going to say "well, I'm just glad that restaurant is still there to sell me their food". If the quality of the products and opinions of the product can't be discussed, everyone has to shut up, keep opinions to themselves or not discuss with each other, and just be happy no matter what the quality is? No thanks.



Title: Re: Mike Love Planning New Vocal Album
Post by: positivemusic on May 28, 2020, 12:02:48 PM
Just be glad that the beach boys release music no matter from who it comes.

AGREED!!!


Title: Re: Mike Love Planning New Vocal Album
Post by: Dutchie on May 28, 2020, 12:13:47 PM
Please stop this Brian vs Mike camp stuff. Everybody is in tital of his opinions. Dont go straight over Nate his opinion when he says that the efforts of Mike are the same as Brian. NPP is brian masterpiece and so is ULTL from Mike ( My opinion)

Just be glad that the beach boys release music no matter from who it comes.

I'm asking for reasons behind those opinions and offering my own in return to help better understand where these viewpoints are coming from, that's what a discussion is for. If you don't wish to participate, don't participate.

I never bought into the "just be glad it's there" mindset. If I buy a meal at a restaurant and the meal sucks, I'm not going to say "well, I'm just glad that restaurant is still there to sell me their food". If the quality of the products and opinions of the product can't be discussed, everyone has to shut up, keep opinions to themselves or not discuss with each other, and just be happy no matter what the quality is? No thanks.



pppffff…. :thud


Title: Re: Mike Love Planning New Vocal Album
Post by: guitarfool2002 on May 28, 2020, 12:16:27 PM
Please stop this Brian vs Mike camp stuff. Everybody is in tital of his opinions. Dont go straight over Nate his opinion when he says that the efforts of Mike are the same as Brian. NPP is brian masterpiece and so is ULTL from Mike ( My opinion)

Just be glad that the beach boys release music no matter from who it comes.

I'm asking for reasons behind those opinions and offering my own in return to help better understand where these viewpoints are coming from, that's what a discussion is for. If you don't wish to participate, don't participate.

I never bought into the "just be glad it's there" mindset. If I buy a meal at a restaurant and the meal sucks, I'm not going to say "well, I'm just glad that restaurant is still there to sell me their food". If the quality of the products and opinions of the product can't be discussed, everyone has to shut up, keep opinions to themselves or not discuss with each other, and just be happy no matter what the quality is? No thanks.



pppffff…. :thud


Considering you have a history in the past several years of coming here and posting to stir things up more than actually contribute anything of substance to the forum...I'd say there's the door if you don't like what's going on or what's being said.


Title: Re: Mike Love Planning New Vocal Album
Post by: The LEGENDARY OSD on May 28, 2020, 01:13:41 PM
Please stop this Brian vs Mike camp stuff. Everybody is in tital of his opinions. Dont go straight over Nate his opinion when he says that the efforts of Mike are the same as Brian. NPP is brian masterpiece and so is ULTL from Mike ( My opinion)

Just be glad that the beach boys release music no matter from who it comes.

Uh, I'm wondering that if everyone is "in tital"  ::) of his(?) opinions, which is supposed to be what this board is mainly built on, then why do you object to GF's opinion that he's offering? So what if it crosses the Brian vs Mike line? Who cares, man?? ??? I do believe, however, that Mike has never and never will get within billions of miles of what Brian produces. Call me a liar if that opinion is not shared by fans, critics and most of us here. 


Title: Re: Mike Love Planning New Vocal Album
Post by: rab2591 on May 28, 2020, 02:00:34 PM
Please stop this Brian vs Mike camp stuff. Everybody is in tital of his opinions. Dont go straight over Nate his opinion when he says that the efforts of Mike are the same as Brian. NPP is brian masterpiece and so is ULTL from Mike ( My opinion)

Just be glad that the beach boys release music no matter from who it comes.

I'm asking for reasons behind those opinions and offering my own in return to help better understand where these viewpoints are coming from, that's what a discussion is for. If you don't wish to participate, don't participate.

I never bought into the "just be glad it's there" mindset. If I buy a meal at a restaurant and the meal sucks, I'm not going to say "well, I'm just glad that restaurant is still there to sell me their food". If the quality of the products and opinions of the product can't be discussed, everyone has to shut up, keep opinions to themselves or not discuss with each other, and just be happy no matter what the quality is? No thanks.



pppffff…. :thud


Nate initially started a comparison between Brian and Mike; Guitarfool merely interjected his own opinion about that. You can't say its okay to positively compare Mike’s work to Brian’s, but it’s not okay for people to negatively compare Mike’s work to Brian’s.

As for my opinion (just continuing the comparison discussion that Nate started, not trying to offend anyone), I cannot agree that Mike’s albums have been even closely on par with No Pier Pressure.

Firstly, the vocal processing on many of the UTL tracks is a comedic dumpster fire. Mike literally sounds like a speak-and-spell on Getcha Back. I mean, I listen to that and laugh that Mike had the balls to lambast Brian for autotune on a track HE HADN’T EVEN HEARD YET...but then he releases a slew of albums drenched in every vocal processing plug-in the studio could find. The vocal processing on these songs makes the 50th anniversary live album sound like a pristine Mormon Tabernacle Choir concert.

With NPP, Brian managed to not potentially offend upwards of a billion people with a racial stereotype “joke” on his album...which Mike successfully did. I mean, to have an album called “Unleash The Love” and put a racial “joke” on there is beyond perplexing. I mean seriously, how many of you would be comfortable putting this album on in front of some Indian friends of yours?

It’s such a shame because Ram Raj is the coolest thing Mike has done in decades. It is experimental, unique, and awesome. But it ends with that stupid curry line. Ya’ll can claim it’s in good fun, but explain to me how it’s any different than if one of Brian’s crew were to fake a stereotypical African American accent and joke about a food stereotype at the end of a song? It’s just crass.

Brian’s albums are polished - I mean the Gershwin album was pitch perfect - every note, every harmony, every line of Brian’s was perfect - you just can’t say that about UTL (or any of the albums after that).

NPP also had an incredible amount of variety: even when Brian did one cover song it had a completely new spin on it. Mike’s cover songs (with the exception of Ambha Love’s awesome vocal performance on TWOTS) were complete copies of the original songs - just no originality to them.

For Mike, it was a pleasant surprise and I enjoyed a few tracks. But it definitely doesn't have the replayability that NPP or the Gershwin album have. This is one man's opinion.


Title: Re: Mike Love Planning New Vocal Album
Post by: guitarfool2002 on May 28, 2020, 02:14:51 PM
I asked Nate to expand on his comments about NPP and vocal processing and provide examples so we could hear where his opinions are coming from. Simple as that. I hope Nate will offer some specific examples so we can hear where he is coming from. I also put up the list of Brian's solo studio albums since 2004 and gave my opinion after Nate gave his about the comparison to Mike's solo album output. It's as simple as that.

If Nate doesn't care to reply or give examples for the discussion, that's cool and that's his choice, but I hope he continues in the discussion taking place to explain some of his opinions. But just to restate this: "Dutchie" has barely posted anything in three years besides trying to provoke and needle other posters and stir the pot, among other things, and the beauty of this board is anyone can go back in the post history and see all of it firsthand. There were issues of him trolling back in 2017, and it's no surprise he suddenly reappears out of nowhere and posts what he posted here. Maybe it's just my lack of patience for that stuff based on previous behavior, but no one should come on here and try to shut down a discussion for no logical reason. If "Dutchie" doesn't like it, he can find the door as I said earlier. My patience is worn very thin for this kind of crap.


Title: Re: Mike Love Planning New Vocal Album
Post by: Lonely Summer on May 28, 2020, 02:49:00 PM
You're never going to win on this board if you try to defend Mike.


Title: Re: Mike Love Planning New Vocal Album
Post by: guitarfool2002 on May 28, 2020, 03:00:48 PM
You're never going to win on this board if you try to defend Mike.

I call BS. Where did Dutchie even defend Mike in his first two posts here in months? He didn't - It wasn't about that - Straw man argument, just like the original "stop with Mike vs Brian stuff". Don't start something that isn't there.


Title: Re: Mike Love Planning New Vocal Album
Post by: Jim V. on May 28, 2020, 06:13:55 PM
Absolutely nobody on here needs my opinion, but whatever, I wanna throw my thoughts in.

First off, where is this horrendous autotune people are talking about on No Pier Pressure? I don't really hear it. Maybe I'm deaf. However, I also have to point out that I think a lot of Beach Boys fans (on both sides of Brian and Mike fandom) are much, much too obsessed with autotune or something that appears to be pitch correction. Off the top of my head, the only times I hear what my be termed "outrageous use of autotune"  I can think of on Beach Boys (or solo) albums is on TWGMTR ("Spring Vacation" for the most part), Unleash the Love (especially disc 2) and Twelve Sides of Summer. Oh, and the 50th tour live album of course. Besides those, I just don't hear it as this horrible thing that makes the music unlistenable. And on "Spring Vacation" it kinda makes me smile for whatever reason. Maybe even enhances the song, makes it even goofier. Perhaps if it was a real serious, epic track I wouldn't feel the same though.

Secondly, I'm kinda with Nate on wishing the guys would put more out. It's a shame Bruce hasn't been able to stop complaining about the ills of socialism enough to release as much as a new song in nearly two decades. He teased something new from around the late 1980s through the first decade of the 2000s. And barely anything was released. Not that I believe that he has much of anything to release. I just don't think working on new music or recording interests him anymore unfortunately. Al is Al, and unfortunately he's probably working on a re-work of "Waves of Love" as we speak that might be released in 2030. And Mike, hey, I dig the fact that dude is trying a bit. I'm not saying the music he's putting out is good, but I'm glad that he's had the balls to go in the studio and put it out. It kinda seemed like he lost his nerve studio-wise after the embarrassment that was Summer In Paradise. And lastly, solo career wise, Brian's given us a lot. If he puts out another new one, then awesome. I'll be right there listening. If not, he's given us so much, and also has a lot of solo material in the vault (Paley sessions,  Usher sessions [though the quality of what we've heard varies] and probably some other good stuff from throughout his solo career). Shoot, even next month we are getting three previously unreleased Brian/VDP recordings.

Lastly, and this is a bit of nitpicking, but I noticed Nate called the tunes on disc two of Mike's UTL album "Love-Wilson" tunes. Hmm. I've never really heard them referred to that way very often. Except from Mike-centric sources. Still odd though. It's pretty much always been referred to as the "Wilson-Love" songwriting team so it took me aback.


Title: Re: Mike Love Planning New Vocal Album
Post by: guitarfool2002 on May 28, 2020, 07:39:19 PM

First off, where is this horrendous autotune people are talking about on No Pier Pressure? I don't really hear it. Maybe I'm deaf.

You're not deaf at all. The most simple explanation is you're not hearing that horrendous autotune all over NPP perhaps because it's not there. And for 5 years as people have been saying it's so horrendous on that album, no one when asked can give a specific example for us all to hear where the autotune is horrendous on NPP. I even offered a bottle of wine for anyone who would, and no one took me up on the offer. So I eventually drank the wine. There was one guy who insisted it was so bad the album was unlistenable, and when asked for an example, he came back with literally a millisecond of some audio tick on a Blondie Chaplin vocal, so he didn't get the wine obviously, he was a joker.

An example is what I was hoping Nate would provide after he mentioned the autotune on NPP so we could all hear a specific example someone else says they heard. Maybe he'll reply with some.


Title: Re: Mike Love Planning New Vocal Album
Post by: NateRuvin on May 28, 2020, 10:59:06 PM
Sorry for the late reply, didn't expect my comment to stir such a reaction.

As someone who spends many hours each day pitch correcting vocals, I can confidently say that NPP is filled to the brim with autotune.

You'd have an easier time finding a vocal part that hasn't been processed.

This Beautiful Day and The Right Time are the songs that came to mind when I was typing my first response, and in revisiting those tracks now, I feel the same. at 52 seconds in The Right Time, when Al sings "So many times we been fooled again" his voice has an unnatural stability, and lack of vibrato- that's a digital artifact of autotune.

It might not be the T Pain esque sound from UTL, but it's there. Al is a tremendous, tremendous singer, but even he can't hit notes with so much precision, with no vibrato. The lead lines on The Right Time are very  locked in, the voices don't have that natural trail.

And just because I'd be willing to bet nearly anything that these tracks are pitch corrected, doesn't mean I don't enjoy them. I enjoy the C50 CD as well. I can dislike the autotune, but enjoy other things about the performances.


And I wasn't meaning to say Mike's solo albums are on par with stuff like TLOS, I said *Most of recent solo efforts* ... So I was thinking more Disney, NPP, ....

I understand why the autotune is a turnoff, but I'm genuinely shocked most BBs fans don't dig UTL as much as I do... I think Crescent Moon, Ram Raj, All The Love In Paris, and Too Cruel are phenomenal.

Also, are we really going to read so much into me writing Love-Wilson, vs Wilson-Love? I was typing quickly, and didn't know people read  anything into that.... In fact, I used to have a songwriting parntership, where my co-writer went nuts if his name didn't go first, I thought he was the only one read who read so much into that stuff... I don't think it makes a very big difference whether you say I Want To Hold Your Hand was written by Lennon-McCartney or McCartney-Lennon... Same as Fun, Fun, Fun or WOTS being Wilson-Love or Love-Wilson... Co-writing is co-writing. I didn't know it made you Mike-centric so put his name first. I don't think I'm Bacharach-centric, for saying Bacharach-David.




Title: Re: Mike Love Planning New Vocal Album
Post by: Peadar 'Big Dinner' O'Driscoll on May 29, 2020, 02:21:54 AM
Mike: Hey Scott, get the guys together and knock out 11 or 12 acapella songs.
Scott: Will do Mike, any thoughts on the track listing?
Mike: yeah, old doo wop stuff, something george harrison related, hit the americas band thing and of course some good ol fun fun fun.
Scott: OK
Mike: When's it's done, I'll add my vocals but not spending more than a few hours on it.

Just joking...no offence to Scott or anyone else  ;D

The guy is nearly 80. Don't blame him for taking it easy.


Title: Re: Mike Love Planning New Vocal Album
Post by: Pretty Funky on May 29, 2020, 03:22:06 AM
Mike: Hey Scott, get the guys together and knock out 11 or 12 acapella songs.
Scott: Will do Mike, any thoughts on the track listing?
Mike: yeah, old doo wop stuff, something george harrison related, hit the americas band thing and of course some good ol fun fun fun.
Scott: OK
Mike: When's it's done, I'll add my vocals but not spending more than a few hours on it.


Oh...and we need a video. Book a room and tell Stamos to bring his sheet.


Title: Re: Mike Love Planning New Vocal Album
Post by: rab2591 on May 29, 2020, 05:48:53 AM
And I wasn't meaning to say Mike's solo albums are on par with stuff like TLOS, I said *Most of recent solo efforts* ... So I was thinking more Disney, NPP, ....

I understand why the autotune is a turnoff, but I'm genuinely shocked most BBs fans don't dig UTL as much as I do... I think Crescent Moon, Ram Raj, All The Love In Paris, and Too Cruel are phenomenal.

Well the autotune is so glaringly distracting that it is hard to pay attention to any other merits that UTL may have to offer. I was playing some of UTL on the stereo system last night and my wife asked without hesitation if the lead singer was supposed to sound like that, "it doesn't even sound human". Whereas I have played NPP, Disney, and Gershwin many times around her and it's been nothing but enjoyment. Both Disney and NPP are lightyears ahead of UTL in production - which, even if one isn't thrilled about Disney songs or the songwriting on NPP (even if there is pitch correction on it), you can at least listen through both albums without questioning the species of the lead singer.

What pisses me off about UTL is that with the liberal use of autotune (to put it mildly) it's as if Mike didn't even try to make a decent sounding album. Instead of taking his time in the vocal booth he opted for a computer to do the hard work (unfortunately I don't think a 1000 exaflop supercomputer could fix these problems). So if it's not worth his time properly recording it, why would it be worth my time listening to it? Think of all the hard work that went into recording the instrumentals, the mixing of those instrumentals, only to have a computer haphazardly pitch (in)correct every lead vocal.

Again, I think Ram Raj is awesome, but why put the racial joke in there? Daybreak Over The Ocean is one of my favorite songs from TWGMTR, but the UTL version is slathered in autotune, making it completely inferior to the TWGMTR version. There is good content on here ruined by problems that never had to exist in the first place. It's like being served a grade-A T-bone steak only to have the chef douse the plate in 10 year old expired ketchup. It's the same with the C50 Live album - it's amazing content ruined by this awful obsession with autotune.

Makes me think about Jonny Cash's American Series recordings - if I recall correctly, it is just Johnny's voice with no manipulation. He's goes off key here and there, but it's real...which is what makes it so powerful. Even if there is pitch correction on NPP, it is done sparingly enough that people can pinpoint the moments of vocal discrepancies, whereas on UTL you can point to whole songs as evidence of autotune.

NPP has a song that was featured in a major motion picture, amazing collaborations with popular artists from across the music spectrum, Blondie Chaplin, Al Jardine. To me it's just lightyears ahead of UTL in every way. Just my opinion.


Title: Re: Mike Love Planning New Vocal Album
Post by: thatjacob on May 29, 2020, 11:21:40 AM

First off, where is this horrendous autotune people are talking about on No Pier Pressure? I don't really hear it. Maybe I'm deaf.

You're not deaf at all. The most simple explanation is you're not hearing that horrendous autotune all over NPP perhaps because it's not there. And for 5 years as people have been saying it's so horrendous on that album, no one when asked can give a specific example for us all to hear where the autotune is horrendous on NPP. I even offered a bottle of wine for anyone who would, and no one took me up on the offer. So I eventually drank the wine. There was one guy who insisted it was so bad the album was unlistenable, and when asked for an example, he came back with literally a millisecond of some audio tick on a Blondie Chaplin vocal, so he didn't get the wine obviously, he was a joker.

An example is what I was hoping Nate would provide after he mentioned the autotune on NPP so we could all hear a specific example someone else says they heard. Maybe he'll reply with some.

It's 100% there, just done well in most parts. I suspect it's melodyne rather than autotune, as well. If it's used by someone capable it can be very I'm not in the mood to listen to NPP right now, but I'll find some examples. I wish they wouldn't use it, but most musicians do now. It can be done well.


Title: Re: Mike Love Planning New Vocal Album
Post by: Lonely Summer on May 29, 2020, 07:21:50 PM
Sorry for the late reply, didn't expect my comment to stir such a reaction.

As someone who spends many hours each day pitch correcting vocals, I can confidently say that NPP is filled to the brim with autotune.

You'd have an easier time finding a vocal part that hasn't been processed.

This Beautiful Day and The Right Time are the songs that came to mind when I was typing my first response, and in revisiting those tracks now, I feel the same. at 52 seconds in The Right Time, when Al sings "So many times we been fooled again" his voice has an unnatural stability, and lack of vibrato- that's a digital artifact of autotune.

It might not be the T Pain esque sound from UTL, but it's there. Al is a tremendous, tremendous singer, but even he can't hit notes with so much precision, with no vibrato. The lead lines on The Right Time are very  locked in, the voices don't have that natural trail.

And just because I'd be willing to bet nearly anything that these tracks are pitch corrected, doesn't mean I don't enjoy them. I enjoy the C50 CD as well. I can dislike the autotune, but enjoy other things about the performances.


And I wasn't meaning to say Mike's solo albums are on par with stuff like TLOS, I said *Most of recent solo efforts* ... So I was thinking more Disney, NPP, ....

I understand why the autotune is a turnoff, but I'm genuinely shocked most BBs fans don't dig UTL as much as I do... I think Crescent Moon, Ram Raj, All The Love In Paris, and Too Cruel are phenomenal.

Also, are we really going to read so much into me writing Love-Wilson, vs Wilson-Love? I was typing quickly, and didn't know people read  anything into that.... In fact, I used to have a songwriting parntership, where my co-writer went nuts if his name didn't go first, I thought he was the only one read who read so much into that stuff... I don't think it makes a very big difference whether you say I Want To Hold Your Hand was written by Lennon-McCartney or McCartney-Lennon... Same as Fun, Fun, Fun or WOTS being Wilson-Love or Love-Wilson... Co-writing is co-writing. I didn't know it made you Mike-centric so put his name first. I don't think I'm Bacharach-centric, for saying Bacharach-David.



Nice post. The autotuned doesn't bother me that much. I might want to use it on my own voice in another 20 years.


Title: Re: Mike Love Planning New Vocal Album
Post by: guitarfool2002 on May 30, 2020, 09:50:59 AM
Thank you Nate and thatjacob for your replies and comments on the autotune/NPP issue! I too had worked with autotune mixing and editing vocals mostly using an Antares rackmount processor version of Autotune back in the day. I still have that Antares unit, and although I don't use it as much as when I was more active doing that kind of thing, I thought it was an amazing tool. As Jacob says, if you use it the right way, it can be transparent if not unnoticeable to most ears...and, if it's an existing vocal, if the care was taken when the vocal was tracked to stay mostly on pitch, it can be a fantastic tool to "clean up" around the edges and have it sit much better in the mix. It's something I'd use every time cutting stacked vocal harmonies if you want a really precise sound, or if you have a singer who runs out of breath at the end of a phrase and trails off at the end on their pitch.

So I think if NPP has anything it's the subtlety where it really, really is not noticeable to most ears - like my own and Jim V's above. In comparison, especially on the Beach Boys remakes he did, Mike's album(s) have an overt use of it to where it does sound like the deliberate overuse of the tool like T-Pain, Kanye, etc. In that case it was either an aesthetic or commercial choice to make Mike sound that unnatural, or his vocals were that far off of the pitches that the tool worked harder to bring it back into key...and *that* is what most listeners hear as the autotune effect. The way Kanye and T-Pain and all the others in the rap/R&B world who made it a trademark got it to sound that robotic on purpose was to sing deliberately out of key so the processor would overwork itself to bring the pitches back, and that's what creates the metallic, digital sheen that became the definition of what most know as autotune when they hear it. It's like compression: A compressor was not designed to "pump", it was supposed to be a transparent tool that leveled off the peaks and lows. But when engineers began to deliberately overload and overwork the compressors, and get that pumping sound along with other "effects" as a result, that overuse of it also became a signature sound as popular as what the device was originally designed to do transparently.

So when NPP came out, and you had a bunch of yahoos (sorry...) going around the web yelling "Autotune!" like it was a Kanye track, it was absurd and ridiculous. Because you simply do not hear anything like that on the album, surely not enough for some to be repeating how unlistenable it is due to the effect, or as Jim described it, the "horrendous" autoune. It simply isn't there. On some of Mike's tracks, however, it is obviously there with a lot of digital residue and overt use of the tool, and when it's a remake of a classic like Help me Rhonda specifically, it is very distracting. And I repeat, this is not a Mike vs. Brian trip...it's simply comparing what that overuse of the autotune (or whatever program) sounds like on Mike's voice versus what people were saying the NPP album sounded like when it's nowhere near that level of application. I just have to question again how and why the decision to do that to Mike's vocals was made, because it really does sound robotic and totally unnatural.

My issue then and even now was that there seemed to be almost a group effort to discredit and dismiss NPP based on elements that were not at play. If the NPP vocals had sounded like a Kanye track, I'd be right there complaining and probably throwing my copy into the ocean too. But listening in 2015 and listening again in 2020, I simply do not hear anything close to what some were suggesting was an overuse of autotune on the record. I guess it also got amped up a bit when a certain "review" of NPP turned into a Mike Love interview where he too made a crack about autotune...than he proceeds to release albums where autotune/pitch correction isn't just "slathered on" to use Nate's term, but was rather dipped and soaked for days in a 55-gallon drum of autotune to where some vocals don't even sound human.

Thanks again for the replies.