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Smiley Smile Stuff => General On Topic Discussions => Topic started by: Rocker on May 07, 2020, 02:49:56 AM



Title: The trainwreck that is The 50th ann. CD
Post by: Rocker on May 07, 2020, 02:49:56 AM
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/916tyRolnxL._SL1400_.jpg)

Everytime I listen to this album - which is not very often - I do it with the hope that it is better than I remembered, mostly only to be even more disappointed in the end with this disgusting release of a fantastic tour and band.
So, I wondered how this came to be. It seems to me that the album was not planned as it was released. From what we know what went on with the reunion and the band's break up, here are some guesses what happened. I'm not saying these are the facts, it's just a try to put as much sense into this as I can.


So, there is no question in my mind that some kind of live album was gonna be released at a certain point. That's just how you do it. Big reunion tour, afterwards release an album. I'm pretty sure though that the album we got was still a stopgap. Let's see why.
The Beach Boys not only had a tremendously successful tour, that got bigger as it went on - starting out in April on the level of an act for a QVC audience (not that there's anything wrong with that audience, it just shows you that it was sold to a limited group of people, probably because that's where they hoped for the biggest sells) to multi-song and -interview appearances on the biggest late night shows, headlining performances at festivals, headlines everywhere and the best music tour of the year with offerings for continuing and offers to play a. o. Madison Square Garden on New Year's Eve - they also had a hit album (thanks in part to a performance on QVC!) that got them all the way to #3 on the charts. With all the success Capitol Records offered the band a contract for a new album and Brian Wilson was already working on ideas for new Beach Boys songs, some eventually wounding up on his "No Pier Pressure" album. We don't know what such an album would've been like and that's not the topic of this thread. We do know though that the Beach Boys would break up before work on new music would start.

Now, with a successful tour and a hit album, everybody expected new material from the band to cash in on this. It is possible that Capitol had no question in mind that a new beach Boys album would happen, considering that nobody would refuse a deal like the one Capitol offered to the Beach Boys (more touring in high regarded venues, a new album). Except The Beach Boys that is. So, knowing that the momentum of the reunion wouldn't last and nothing new would be coming, a live album was hastily compiled and released.
Of course a live album would've been released under any circumstances. But probably not right after the tour (and with such little promotion). And not THIS album. Considering that what I would call a very reliable source when it comes to the Beach Boys messaged me that Bruce didn't even hear the album before it was released and laterwards apologized for it, and that the collection seemingly comes from already released material (the Japan broadcast, the NPR collection, and other shows that where used for DVDs - I'd have to dig deeper to compare), it seems reasonable to assume that those performances where just thrown together and hastingly mastered so that they would more or less sound like a homogeneous performances (which they don't) - it seems that this was just the last Hail Mary shot. That doesn't explain what they where putting on Brian'S voice on tracks such as "Add some music", but since early concert goers complained about the sound of Brian's voice (which came to be know as "robot-Brian"), I guess these performances were recorded quite early in the tour.

Also the lack of artwork and a booklet suggests that this album was a throwaway to cash in on the last momentum. Now, I do like the pictures they used and don't mind it that much. But the usual way of such a release would go something like this, I'd imagine:
Try to compile the best performances of each song, settle on a setlist (not all songs are going to be used), mix and master the recordings so that they sound like they come from the same show. Now, there are different ways to do this. They don't need to sound the same if the album concept is to present different units of songs from different places. Like having one set from a concert hall, one set from a festival, one open-air set, one accoustic set. But clearly that's not the way these recordings are presented.
The artwork and booklet would then show as much of the excitement of the tour with a great variety of pictures and liner notes that mention all the successes of the tour, maybe some of it's origins, the places where each recording comes from and a generally positive and even nostalgic view of the great summer that was the summer of 2012, on tour with the Beach Boys.
It's also possible that Capitol, expecting the Beach Boys to continue, was waiting for another high-level appearance, like the one at Madison Square Garden, that they would release as the "soundtrack" to the Beach Boys' 50th anniversary. Who knows. But this is broadly speaking the way these things are done.

What does seem obvious though, is that no one, not Joe Thomas, not Brian, probably no one at the record company even, listened to the album that was released. No one with they're head at the right place would let such a travesty of an album to the public. The only reason would be that you know this is all you got and that the time to release it and sell as much units as possible is cut short. So you don't throw in any promotion (because that would cost money) and you hope that the momentum from the tour shifts enough CDs so you make a profit.

Well, I don't know if this was considered the second album that Capitol offered the Beach Boys or if any such agreement was made before the band broke up. As I said, a live album was inescapable. But it seems that this careless disaster was done out of despair, because - and I quote Jack Rieley here - "they blew it" and nobody was prepared for that.


Title: Re: The trainwreck that is The 50th ann. CD
Post by: rab2591 on May 07, 2020, 04:24:59 AM
What constantly surprises me about The Beach Boys is, ironically, their ability to consistently bomb after a huge success. California Girls, Barbara Ann, Pet Sounds, Good Vibrations and then it all goes to hell. Kokomo goes #1 and then it all goes to hell. Getting inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame which immediately went to hell. C50 occurs and then it all goes to hell.

The C50 live album is just another product of the comical roller coaster ride that is The Beach Boys. Rocker, I think your theory is spot on. Now, I would’ve hoped that a live album would have been in the works regardless of what the future held. But the quality of it makes me think it was just some last ditch half-assed effort to squeeze as much money as possible out of fans.

What also surprises me is the number of 5 star reviews on Amazon for that CD. Mike literally sounds like megatron, the audience noise sounds so synthetic - something I can’t really explain well, but you’ll get these random moments where the audience will cheer, and it always sounds the exact same. It almost reminds me of those clap-tracks on a keyboard.

I make jokes about how bad this album is, but it really does bum me out: I didn’t go to any C50 concerts and I regret that a lot. I really hoped that this CD would give me a small glimpse at the magic of that tour. But instead it is just another reminder of how consistently inconsistent this band is. It is my hope that a proper release will happen one day - one that honors the fans, the band, all the roadies, and most important the legacy of Carl and Dennis. There was no need for all the autotune, no need to fly in Brian’s vocals (didn’t this happen on Heroes and Villains?), no need to simulate audience sounds (or at least mix the real audience so poorly into the blend).

With that said, it’s not all bad. But the gems are so few and far between I just don’t bother listening to it at all.


Title: Re: The trainwreck that is The 50th ann. CD
Post by: CenturyDeprived on May 07, 2020, 07:37:35 AM
Other than listening to bits of a few tracks for morbid research purposes, I've never listened to this travesty of an album. I literally get nauseous when I think about the Autotune on "don't back down". Utterly unlistenable. It turns my stomach and I'm not exaggerating. And the bad vibrations that Mike brought when he ruined this tour made me not want to listen to it whatsoever. If I would ever get the urge to revisit this tour, I would watch a YouTube video of a song or two, where there hasn't been any wretched post production sweetening nonsense done.

An absolute carelessly released album.  Done for contractual purposes. The only reason I could see anybody being interested in listening to this album for enjoyment is if they enjoy necrophilia. I can't think of an officially released album by this band that I would like to listen to less than this. (Except UTL disc 2, barf). Give me SIP on repeat over this.

All in all a true, true shame.


Title: Re: The trainwreck that is The 50th ann. CD
Post by: phirnis on May 07, 2020, 10:02:04 AM
I don't even have this. Both Concert and In Concert are excellent live albums. Knebworth is fine too (especially Surfer Girl and Rhonda). But this...


Title: Re: The trainwreck that is The 50th ann. CD
Post by: Awesoman on May 07, 2020, 10:44:23 AM
In all honesty I really don't have any real issue with this album.  Yeah, it's certainly not perfect but I'm not really sure what people were expecting with it.  The biggest, most reasonable gripe I've heard about it is that it sounds over-produced.  And it does; on "Do It Again" you can totally hear the band singing over the canned vocals from the 2011 remake.  There's weird edits here and there and definitely some pitch correction effects were in play.  Despite all this the mix still sounds pretty clean and completely listenable and you get to hear most of the songs they performed off that tour.  I don't think the casual listener is going to scrutinize over such ultimately trivial things such as CD packaging like us die-hards do (most people listen to music digitally nowadays anyway).  Maybe this live album could have been better but is it seriously that awful?  No.


Title: Re: The trainwreck that is The 50th ann. CD
Post by: Pretty Funky on May 07, 2020, 12:09:32 PM
I’m not saying anything I didn’t say at the time but no wonder people buy bootlegs. Another comment on Bruce. I don’t know where I read it but he did say he thought the album was going to be from one show, that’s how out of touch and uninvolved he , and probably the others in the band were. We always knew a live album would come out and for months we and other boards literally pleaded for a pure product. The live DVD came out first, processed to hell and the calls got louder...and nobody listened. A real shame but not a surprise given the bands history. Once again defeat grabbed from the jaws of victory.


Title: Re: The trainwreck that is The 50th ann. CD
Post by: Awesoman on May 07, 2020, 12:21:05 PM
I’m not saying anything I didn’t say at the time but no wonder people buy bootlegs. Another comment on Bruce. I don’t know where I read it but he did say he thought the album was going to be from one show, that’s how out of touch and uninvolved he , and probably the others in the band were. We always knew a live album would come out and for months we and other boards literally pleaded for a pure product. The live DVD came out first, processed to hell and the calls got louder...and nobody listened. A real shame but not a surprise given the bands history. Once again defeat grabbed from the jaws of victory.

I mean to be honest most live albums aren't technically "live".  Lots of studio overdubs and post-effects to polish the product.  Some albums hide it better than others do but it's a common practice.  I remember shuttering at the weird auto-tune effects from Paul McCartney's Good Evening New York City album that made him sound like a robot.  And there are plenty of live albums where the performances are culled throughout the entire tour, not limiting them to only one show. 


Title: Re: The trainwreck that is The 50th ann. CD
Post by: Rocker on May 07, 2020, 12:36:20 PM
I’m not saying anything I didn’t say at the time but no wonder people buy bootlegs. Another comment on Bruce. I don’t know where I read it but he did say he thought the album was going to be from one show, that’s how out of touch and uninvolved he , and probably the others in the band were. We always knew a live album would come out and for months we and other boards literally pleaded for a pure product. The live DVD came out first, processed to hell and the calls got louder...and nobody listened. A real shame but not a surprise given the bands history. Once again defeat grabbed from the jaws of victory.

I mean to be honest most live albums aren't technically "live".  Lots of studio overdubs and post-effects to polish the product.  Some albums hide it better than others do but it's a common practice.  I remember shuttering at the weird auto-tune effects from Paul McCartney's Good Evening New York City album that made him sound like a robot.  And there are plenty of live albums where the performances are culled throughout the entire tour, not limiting them to only one show.  



No one's arguing with that. The whole album just doesn't come close to even the standard that you find on the average live album nowadays. It really is extremely bad.


Title: Re: The trainwreck that is The 50th ann. CD
Post by: HeyJude on May 07, 2020, 04:09:20 PM
I don't know every in and out of the deals struck for C50, but I think we can deduce a lot about this live album based on when the tour ended, how it ended, when *this* live album was released, and so on.

The live album came out in May 2013, over a year after the C50 tour started, and 7-8 months after it ended. Let's remember that, apart from some BB fans living in false hope, everybody knew the reunion was DEAD by September 2012.

Long story short, this album reeks of contractual obligation. The label didn't promote it well (same went for the MIC set later in 2013), and even if they had, the band was back to being in shambles and fractured. Nobody wanted to promote it.

As for the album itself, it's not *that* bad. Some of the stuff (mainly some Mike leads) have waayyy too much autotune. Some other stuff on the album seems nearly or fully unscathed (take Dave's lead on "Getcha Back" for instance). It's mixed a bit sterile and dry, but I prefer that to live albums that sound like audience recordings.

No album was ever going to include all 61 songs (plus a few other variants) that had been performed on the tour. Brian always sounded weak when they did "This Whole World." The band never did "Our Prayer" enough to get it sounding as good as it could. Given the politics involved in C50, there was always little to no chance that any full backing band leads were going to be included, apart from Foskett doing a few partial leads on Brian or Carl parts on old songs. So that leaves out several Totten leads, and some Foksett and Darian stuff.

A *TON* of stuff made for C50 in 2012 was just left shelved because of the awful ending. *Multiple* full-length shows were shot for potential release, including Red Rocks. They shot the Hollywood Bowl show in 3-D (seriously!) and a planned theatrical release of that was shelved. Then there's that infamous live video reunion tour project where they solicited funds via "Pledge Music" or whatever it was called. That fell apart and refunds were issued. (Though that particular case may have had much if not all to do with the company doing it rather than the BBs).

The whole thing about C50 was and *could have continued to be* about momentum and marketing synergy and all of that. Had they done was a normal, baseline functional group would do given the RAVE reviews of the tour (and solid notices for the album), they would have done another year of touring in 2013, and *that* tour (new international and domestic touring markets, plus return visits to key markets) could have helped promoted the 2012 live album and Blu-ray (and vice versa).

We're probably lucky if contracts were signed for the Blu-ray and live album before the tour ended, as that stuff may well have never happened had it required the new post-breakup members to agree to those things.

So yes, the C50 live album is a weird lame duck release, essentially an "archival release" even though it was only months old. It came from a band that blinked back into and then again back out of existence in less than a year.

I think a better, fuller album could be pieced together from 2012 shows. I just don't see that happening other than possibly if or when the band opens up an expansive live online archive for download. *Maybe* some 2012 stuff could sneak out mixed in with vintage stuff from the 70s and 80s.


Title: Re: The trainwreck that is The 50th ann. CD
Post by: Jay on May 07, 2020, 04:18:38 PM
There are no less than three Brian's singing the lead on "Add Some Music To Your Day". That's pretty much all you need to know.


Title: Re: The trainwreck that is The 50th ann. CD
Post by: Shady on May 07, 2020, 04:24:00 PM
Just imagine the royal Albert Hall show got released as a live CD/DVD


Title: Re: The trainwreck that is The 50th ann. CD
Post by: Toursiveu on May 07, 2020, 07:03:36 PM
I bought it. I was thrilled to spend a nice afternoon at home listening to the Beach Boys. Listened to it once. Had to force myself to listen to it entirely. Then I sold it in a discount store the next day. I don't think I've ever been that furious after listening to an album.

I didn't have the chance to go to one of the shows (I'm from Belgium, by the way - Hi from Brussels!), so I was really thrilled to hear that a live album would be released. But the way they butchered most of the songs with that disgusting sound? No no no. I kept thinking : I'm glad Carl and Dennis will never hear this.

"Crank up the Beach Boys, baby, don't let the music stop!" sang Randy Newman. I'm pretty sure he wouldn't have said that after listening to this monstrosity. It's probably one of the worst releases of all times from a major band. I can listen to SIP and actually enjoy a song or two. (I don't, but I think I could.) But this? Never again! What a waste, what a shame! 


Title: Re: The trainwreck that is The 50th ann. CD
Post by: Pretty Funky on May 07, 2020, 11:01:15 PM
Assuming this Amazon reviewer is the real deal, (Nelson Bragg) it’s embarrassing from someone who was on stage for the tour.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-reviews/R3OXJCLQWE0OOG?ref=pf_vv_at_pdctrvw_srp


Title: Re: The trainwreck that is The 50th ann. CD
Post by: Rocker on May 08, 2020, 03:05:51 AM
When I first heard it, I wondered if this was done so badly on purpose by Brian, as a f*ck you to how it ended. Now, I don't know if Brian is the person to do that and I don't have any reason to seriously believe it (I am sure that it didn't happen that way). But when I first heard it, that was the only explanation I could find for it being such a horrible piece of work.





I think a better, fuller album could be pieced together from 2012 shows.


Thing is, there are much better and very good recordings that were broadcast on radio (Sirius, BBC2, NPR), that sound alright - and they even used some of those on the album.


Title: Re: The trainwreck that is The 50th ann. CD
Post by: HeyJude on May 08, 2020, 03:40:08 PM
When I first heard it, I wondered if this was done so badly on purpose by Brian, as a f*ck you to how it ended. Now, I don't know if Brian is the person to do that and I don't have any reason to seriously believe it (I am sure that it didn't happen that way). But when I first heard it, that was the only explanation I could find for it being such a horrible piece of work.





I think a better, fuller album could be pieced together from 2012 shows.


Thing is, there are much better and very good recordings that were broadcast on radio (Sirius, BBC2, NPR), that sound alright - and they even used some of those on the album.

I'd be fine with the C50 live album treatment, but minus autotune, being given to every song from the tour. But it's not like I've heard immensely better-sounding mixes or performances from C50 compared to the live album. Again, autotune excepted. I've listened to dozens of C50 live recordings. I'm not saying every performance on the live album is better. I'm sure somewhere on the tour there are slightly better performances. But my main gripe with the C50 album was always the autotune, and the lack of additional songs.

But again, for instance, I'm not sure a solid sounding lead from Brian on "This Whole World" or "Good Timin'" exists from the tour. On yet *another* hand, sub-par performances didn't stop them from including "That's Why God Made the Radio" on the live album, a song that sounded near-off-the-rails seemingly *every* time they did it live in 2012.


Title: Re: The trainwreck that is The 50th ann. CD
Post by: Pretty Funky on May 08, 2020, 06:24:55 PM
Somewhat related but these clips have just been loaded on YouTube allegedly from the Sirius show 19 April 2012 where Melinda had put auto tune on the mics according to Mike.

Good Vibrations

https://youtu.be/LPmjd_abMxE

Car Medley

https://youtu.be/aVEcZu0o1l4


Title: Re: The trainwreck that is The 50th ann. CD
Post by: Rocker on May 09, 2020, 03:14:33 AM
When I first heard it, I wondered if this was done so badly on purpose by Brian, as a f*ck you to how it ended. Now, I don't know if Brian is the person to do that and I don't have any reason to seriously believe it (I am sure that it didn't happen that way). But when I first heard it, that was the only explanation I could find for it being such a horrible piece of work.





I think a better, fuller album could be pieced together from 2012 shows.


Thing is, there are much better and very good recordings that were broadcast on radio (Sirius, BBC2, NPR), that sound alright - and they even used some of those on the album.

I'd be fine with the C50 live album treatment, but minus autotune, being given to every song from the tour. But it's not like I've heard immensely better-sounding mixes or performances from C50 compared to the live album. Again, autotune excepted. I've listened to dozens of C50 live recordings. I'm not saying every performance on the live album is better. I'm sure somewhere on the tour there are slightly better performances. But my main gripe with the C50 album was always the autotune, and the lack of additional songs.




I'm totally on your side with that. That's why multiple shows are recorded, so you can choose the best performance of each track for a live album (I love the performance of "Wendy" for example very much, including Bruce's husky lead), and you don't have to use every single song that was once played. And of course, some post-production work has to be expected as well. But the way it is done here is just awful.
The BBC2 show is pretty great and the NPR collection is available online here (https://www.npr.org/2012/06/13/154917913/the-beach-boys-in-concert) if you wanna compare (for the rest you probably have to find nice people who can share them with you as I don't know if those shows are available in an archive or something similar). I've listened just yesterday to the NPR shows and it was all in all a very nice listen while I was working out. Can't say that for the live album.
 
The shortcomings of the album in my opinion seem like they are no mistakes that happened for a reason like having problems with the recordings, not knowing the software they're working with or whatever. It is just that they didn't even try.


Title: Re: The trainwreck that is The 50th ann. CD
Post by: CenturyDeprived on May 09, 2020, 09:51:08 AM
The post-production "work" on the album is akin to this. Joe Thomas or whoever was responsible should be ashamed, as should anyone who greenlit it.

(https://i.imgur.com/HhVbrkm.jpg)


Title: Re: The trainwreck that is The 50th ann. CD
Post by: Mayoman on May 09, 2020, 10:50:12 AM
Somewhat related but these clips have just been loaded on YouTube allegedly from the Sirius show 19 April 2012 where Melinda had put auto tune on the mics according to Mike.

Good Vibrations

https://youtu.be/LPmjd_abMxE

Car Medley

https://youtu.be/aVEcZu0o1l4

I listened fairly closely and I truly can't detect any autotune here. Mike has a voice where autotune is fairly noticeable(see his solo work...) and none of that seems to be apparent here. That being said, this might be the best performance of the 'Car Medley' I've heard.


Title: Re: The trainwreck that is The 50th ann. CD
Post by: Lonely Summer on May 09, 2020, 12:58:52 PM
I think the truth is, we were so overwhelmed by the idea of the surviving Beach Boys being on stage together, that we overlooked a lot of mediocre performances. The magic of seeing them in person didn't translate to cd. If anyone asks me for a good live BB's album, I will recommend The Beach Boys in Concert from 73, or Knebworth.


Title: Re: The trainwreck that is The 50th ann. CD
Post by: Tony S on May 09, 2020, 01:45:49 PM
I don't think the C50 Live CD is as bad as everyone says. Is there auto-tune yes if there wasn't auto-tune it probably wouldn't sound that good. Let's be honest Brian's voice even at the time wasn't great nor is Mike's or was And Al's was still good but he didn't have a lot of leads. The songs were great the auto-tune help supplement it a lot and in general it's a  good live CD. But for my money I agree that the best Beach Boys Live CD by far is in concert from 73. That could be the best live CD ever.


Title: Re: The trainwreck that is The 50th ann. CD
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on May 09, 2020, 05:13:48 PM
Somewhat related but these clips have just been loaded on YouTube allegedly from the Sirius show 19 April 2012 where Melinda had put auto tune on the mics according to Mike.

Good Vibrations

https://youtu.be/LPmjd_abMxE

Car Medley

https://youtu.be/aVEcZu0o1l4

I listened fairly closely and I truly can't detect any autotune here. Mike has a voice where autotune is fairly noticeable(see his solo work...) and none of that seems to be apparent here. That being said, this might be the best performance of the 'Car Medley' I've heard.


What the hell was that at the 1:18 mark? That sounded like a very poor edit


Title: Re: The trainwreck that is The 50th ann. CD
Post by: NateRuvin on May 09, 2020, 07:23:48 PM
To my ears, as someone who engineers for a living- there is definitely autotune on Brian's vocals in that Good Vibrations clip. However, I doubt Melinda has the live sound knowledge to actually set the autotune up, like Mike made it seem. It wouldn't surprise me if she requested it though.

That said, I'm glad they dropped the autotune for the live shows. None of the guys, even Brian, need or needed it. If anything, autotune can make pitchy singing sound even worse, by over compensating with the software trying to find the right note. Like at 1:18 during this GV clip. You probably wouldn't have noticed Brian being slightly sharp or flat, but you're sure as hell notice the digital artifacts created by the autotune- what sounds like a "bad edit".

Although I have heard that BW likes using to autotune, with his life long quest to achieve perfect pitch on records, but i have a feeling that the "tune" was a result of Joe Thomas co-producing. You can hear autotune on everything he's worked with Brian and the Boys since Imagination.

While the autotune is distracting, I have learned to enjoy this album. Like my experience with UTL, initially I couldn't get past the autotune, but once I was able to, I found myself enjoying the performances quite a lot. On this CD, I really enjoy Why Do Fools Fall In Love, Wendy, and Then I Kissed Her. I also feel the excitement of being at a BBs show when I listen to the start Do It Again, with Foskett's intro.


Title: Re: The trainwreck that is The 50th ann. CD
Post by: B.E. on May 09, 2020, 08:02:32 PM
If anything, autotune can make pitchy singing sound even worse, by over compensating with the software trying to find the right note. Like at 1:18 during this GV clip. You probably wouldn't have noticed Brian being slightly sharp or flat, but you're sure as hell notice the digital artifacts created by the autotune- what sounds like a "bad edit".

I couldn't agree more! Most people (including myself) don't have the ears or training to notice notes that are sung slightly out of tune here or there. And, even if we can, a natural voice singing out of tune still sounds better than an overtly processed voice (IMO). If we can hear the autotune, then it's done more harm than good.


Title: Re: The trainwreck that is The 50th ann. CD
Post by: Pretty Funky on May 09, 2020, 09:12:54 PM
For those like you Nate who know auto tune, how would you rate those clips on a scale of 1-10? (with the Live CD being an 11)
I thought Mike was minimal if at all, and the backing 2-3 myself.


Title: Re: The trainwreck that is The 50th ann. CD
Post by: 37!ws on May 10, 2020, 12:34:46 PM
When this came out, a friend of ours said, "So, have you listened to The Beach Boys Through a Vocoder yet?" I thought she meant there was another silly Beach Boys video on YouTube with the same idea of "The Beach Boys shred 'I Get Around'" -- like, someone piped the Beach Boys through a vocoder or something...I didn't know she was talking about the Autotune festival that is this CD. After I listened, I totally understood.


Title: Re: The trainwreck that is The 50th ann. CD
Post by: Awesoman on May 15, 2020, 09:54:16 PM
When this came out, a friend of ours said, "So, have you listened to The Beach Boys Through a Vocoder yet?" I thought she meant there was another silly Beach Boys video on YouTube with the same idea of "The Beach Boys shred 'I Get Around'" -- like, someone piped the Beach Boys through a vocoder or something...I didn't know she was talking about the Autotune festival that is this CD. After I listened, I totally understood.

I still contest that McCartney's Good Evening New York City sounds way worse than this. 

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLTay8qCDybrNpgvmMFNDQ-jVQwEjl84WP

Not only does poor Sir Paul sound even more so like a robot, but the mix is garbage too.  The mix on the Beach Boys' 50th is at least clean. 


Title: Re: The trainwreck that is The 50th ann. CD
Post by: roffels on May 16, 2020, 10:08:11 AM
When this came out, a friend of ours said, "So, have you listened to The Beach Boys Through a Vocoder yet?" I thought she meant there was another silly Beach Boys video on YouTube with the same idea of "The Beach Boys shred 'I Get Around'" -- like, someone piped the Beach Boys through a vocoder or something...I didn't know she was talking about the Autotune festival that is this CD. After I listened, I totally understood.

I still contest that McCartney's Good Evening New York City sounds way worse than this. 

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLTay8qCDybrNpgvmMFNDQ-jVQwEjl84WP

Not only does poor Sir Paul sound even more so like a robot, but the mix is garbage too.  The mix on the Beach Boys' 50th is at least clean. 

I poked around in that, and didn't hear anything nearly as artificial as Brian sounds here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VweL5fgSUk0&list=PLAqTPSiRfVMiXcMh7eiphNlLrOiYs0HLG&index=24


Title: Re: The trainwreck that is The 50th ann. CD
Post by: Lonely Summer on May 16, 2020, 02:09:48 PM
When this came out, a friend of ours said, "So, have you listened to The Beach Boys Through a Vocoder yet?" I thought she meant there was another silly Beach Boys video on YouTube with the same idea of "The Beach Boys shred 'I Get Around'" -- like, someone piped the Beach Boys through a vocoder or something...I didn't know she was talking about the Autotune festival that is this CD. After I listened, I totally understood.

I still contest that McCartney's Good Evening New York City sounds way worse than this. 

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLTay8qCDybrNpgvmMFNDQ-jVQwEjl84WP

Not only does poor Sir Paul sound even more so like a robot, but the mix is garbage too.  The mix on the Beach Boys' 50th is at least clean. 
Never listened to that one. Paul has so many live albums out, I've lost count.


Title: Re: The trainwreck that is The 50th ann. CD
Post by: All Summer Long on May 16, 2020, 09:14:29 PM
When this came out, a friend of ours said, "So, have you listened to The Beach Boys Through a Vocoder yet?" I thought she meant there was another silly Beach Boys video on YouTube with the same idea of "The Beach Boys shred 'I Get Around'" -- like, someone piped the Beach Boys through a vocoder or something...I didn't know she was talking about the Autotune festival that is this CD. After I listened, I totally understood.

I still contest that McCartney's Good Evening New York City sounds way worse than this. 

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLTay8qCDybrNpgvmMFNDQ-jVQwEjl84WP

Not only does poor Sir Paul sound even more so like a robot, but the mix is garbage too.  The mix on the Beach Boys' 50th is at least clean. 
Never listened to that one. Paul has so many live albums out, I've lost count.

I heard samples of that Paul live album after I had bought it but before I listened to it...so I started to regret buying it. Still haven’t listened to it because of the Auto-Tune...guess I’ll listen soon.


Title: Re: The trainwreck that is The 50th ann. CD
Post by: HeyJude on May 19, 2020, 02:15:38 PM
I don't recall any autotune on the McCartney "Good Evening..." album being as egregious as the autotune on Mike's vocal on "Don't Back Down" on the C50 live album.  But as I've said in previous posts, I think the C50 album is very *okay*; I've heard far worse.

McCartney live stuff is a separate ball of wax; he has different stuff going on. His voice is pretty much gone now. He sounded remarkably good when he first went back out in 2002; he probably sounded better at some 2002 dates than he did on those scratchy long runs of shows in 1990. But by the mid-2000s, McCartney's voice was toast live. They held his voice together longer in the studio, but now even his studio stuff is pretty challenged. He can still do lower register stuff okay; sometimes.

But I remember a few years ago when the "Blink of an Eye" McCartney soundtrack song came out; that was the final straw where I realized every iteration of his voice is pretty much toast.

I guess 2010 live McCartney doesn't sound as bad as 2019. But after trying live McCartney stuff from more recent years, I've mostly given up outside of when he does something really bizarre (e.g. "Temporary Secretary"). I'm happy to have seen a good run of shows in 2002, 2004, and 2005. That's enough for me.

As with the Beach Boys, McCartney's gold is in the archives. He doesn't have as much jaw-dropping A-list material as the BB's, but McCartney has so much volume (even after a myriad of epic multi-disc album reissues), there's still tons of stuff there.

I'd also say, regarding autotune, in the studio the people McCartney works with do seem to have more of a light, deft touch with the autotune compared to what Joe Thomas did with the BBs in 2012. Then again, I'd much rather listen to the BB's TWGMTR than McCartney's contemporaneous album, "New."


Title: Re: The trainwreck that is The 50th ann. CD
Post by: brother john on May 20, 2020, 03:59:56 AM
Somewhat related but these clips have just been loaded on YouTube allegedly from the Sirius show 19 April 2012 where Melinda had put auto tune on the mics according to Mike.

Good Vibrations

https://youtu.be/LPmjd_abMxE

Car Medley

https://youtu.be/aVEcZu0o1l4

I listened fairly closely and I truly can't detect any autotune here. Mike has a voice where autotune is fairly noticeable(see his solo work...) and none of that seems to be apparent here. That being said, this might be the best performance of the 'Car Medley' I've heard.

Brian on second verse. Unmistakeable, I think.


Title: Re: The trainwreck that is The 50th ann. CD
Post by: twentytwenty on May 20, 2020, 11:52:03 AM
The mix is super clean, I only have some songs on my playlist from this album, but I really don't understand the hate.

Personally, I think that Then I Kissed Her, Marcella, Disney Girls, Add Some Music and Help Me Rhonda sounds amazing on this album

BUT - they should've released the live in Japan gig as a cd. That performance is more energetic than the performances from the actual release.


Title: Re: The trainwreck that is The 50th ann. CD
Post by: HeyJude on May 21, 2020, 02:58:22 PM
Somewhat related but these clips have just been loaded on YouTube allegedly from the Sirius show 19 April 2012 where Melinda had put auto tune on the mics according to Mike.

Good Vibrations

https://youtu.be/LPmjd_abMxE

Car Medley

https://youtu.be/aVEcZu0o1l4

Whatever that complete story actually is, I don't think we got the full story from Mike's book. As we discussed back then, Mike described some sort of physical device attached to the mics, but the general understanding seems to be that autotune is generally done with outboard gear, and/or back at the soundboard or some sort of off-stage interface.

I haven't read this part of Mike's book lately, but the sense I got was that whatever Mike had a beef with, he had it removed before they did any performances.

The sense I have is that they probably did try to put autotune on everyone, Mike balked (we'll just ignore the COPIOUS autotune found on every one of his albums and pre-recorded TV appearances of the last several years at least), and it appears that once the actual tour started, only Brian's mic had some sort of autotune going out live to the PA. Fans noticed this, and it was gone from live shows (to any hugely discernable degree) within a few days or a week or so.

Subsequently, autotune was slathered on to some of the live album; that was presumably all done in post-production.

Mike's apparent position on autotune falls very much in line with how he seems to operate. He doesn't like stuff sometimes when it's someone else's idea or decision. But if it's his idea and/or his decision, then it's okay. Hence all three of his recent albums being drowned by the most overzealous use of autotune we've ever seen on any BB-related product.

Back to the Sirius show; it was fine. I do think everybody was sounding even better a few weeks into the tour. When I saw the band in June during the tour, they were smoking pretty much across the board.


Title: Re: The trainwreck that is The 50th ann. CD
Post by: GoogaMooga on May 21, 2020, 05:12:20 PM
Glad I did not buy this yet. But also happy to have seen five Beach Boys onstage - together.


Title: Re: The trainwreck that is The 50th ann. CD
Post by: adamghost on May 23, 2020, 08:59:10 AM
Assuming this Amazon reviewer is the real deal, (Nelson Bragg) it’s embarrassing from someone who was on stage for the tour.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/customer-reviews/R3OXJCLQWE0OOG?ref=pf_vv_at_pdctrvw_srp

Sounds like Nelson!


Title: Re: The trainwreck that is The 50th ann. CD
Post by: Awesoman on May 25, 2020, 06:34:54 AM


McCartney live stuff is a separate ball of wax; he has different stuff going on. His voice is pretty much gone now. He sounded remarkably good when he first went back out in 2002; he probably sounded better at some 2002 dates than he did on those scratchy long runs of shows in 1990. But by the mid-2000s, McCartney's voice was toast live. They held his voice together longer in the studio, but now even his studio stuff is pretty challenged. He can still do lower register stuff okay; sometimes.


Agreed.  Up until the last few years I think McCartney's voice has really gone downhill unfortunately.  Although I will say I have a superb-sounding boot from a show he did in Japan in 2013 and even though he was in his early 70's he still sounded great on most songs. 


As with the Beach Boys, McCartney's gold is in the archives. He doesn't have as much jaw-dropping A-list material as the BB's, but McCartney has so much volume (even after a myriad of epic multi-disc album reissues), there's still tons of stuff there.

Oh I dunno about that; I mean he was in The Beatles for crying out loud.  It doesn't get much more A-List than that.


I'd also say, regarding autotune, in the studio the people McCartney works with do seem to have more of a light, deft touch with the autotune compared to what Joe Thomas did with the BBs in 2012. Then again, I'd much rather listen to the BB's TWGMTR than McCartney's contemporaneous album, "New."

New was hit-or-miss with me and I agree I enjoyed the Beach Boys' reunion album more consistently.  I will say I really grew to like his follow-up album Egypt Station though.  "I Don't Know" is a surprisingly personal song for McCartney that would be right at home if it had been written by Brian.  "Come On To Me" is a fun rocker that grows on you.  "Dominos" is a really solid album cut and "Back In Brazil" is a cool, albeit eccentric lounge/house track.  And "Do It Now" has some Beach Boy-style harmonies.  The only real misfire I found on there is his politically-charged "Despite Repeated Warnings".  It's a clunky and overly pretentious song even if you agree with the message.


Title: Re: The trainwreck that is The 50th ann. CD
Post by: SenorPotatoHead on May 27, 2020, 06:19:26 AM
The "reunion" was (IMO) a failed opportunity.  It came as no surprise that it was crap, but still I had hopes they could be their ages and make real music as the old men they now are.  Instead we get the "Let's autotune and over produce this thing so we can capture 1965 again!"   Yay, only nope.  It's fake and sickening.  I love the BB's for what I love about them.  BW is one of the greatest musical entities of the 20th century - unfortunately saddled with the stupid marketing/image yoke that has continually suppressed and limited his scope.  He has done wondrous music, for which I am grateful, but allowed to simply be a creator without all the baggage, he might have done so much more.    Just look at what Dylan has been able to do in his elderly years - love him or not, he's been true to himself and done as he wished with no compunction to be the Bob of 1965.   


Title: Re: The trainwreck that is The 50th ann. CD
Post by: RONDEMON on May 28, 2020, 08:26:19 AM
VERY well said. They'll always be my favorite band but the Beach Boys (including Brian) do not seem interested in doing anything original these days to highlight just how innovative and revolutionary they used to be.


Title: Re: The trainwreck that is The 50th ann. CD
Post by: guitarfool2002 on May 28, 2020, 11:48:12 AM
Keep in mind they will be 80 years old in just a few years. I don't know what would be expected at this point in terms of something as groundbreaking or innovative as any of these artists were in their 20's when it was a totally different music business.

As far as the studio album from 2012, it actually keeps sounding better to my ears whenever I hear it, minus a few dud tracks. I did an Amazon shuffle play the other day and a few TWGMTR tracks came on in the mix, including the title track and Summers Gone. The latter especially sounded terrific, what a great track. Strong production, strong vocals, etc. The music has aged very well in 8 years in my opinion, and is well worth a revisit.

The live album is what it is. I'll repeat what I've said for years since it came out, for all of the negativity among the more hardcore fan base, the reviews among people who bought it are almost all positive. So there seems to be a good number of people out there who don't mind the stuff we're discussing here, at least if you take a look at Amazon's reviews and similar sources. It shows a divide between more casual listeners and the fanbase.


Title: Re: The trainwreck that is The 50th ann. CD
Post by: Lonely Summer on May 28, 2020, 02:53:45 PM
The "reunion" was (IMO) a failed opportunity.  It came as no surprise that it was crap, but still I had hopes they could be their ages and make real music as the old men they now are.  Instead we get the "Let's autotune and over produce this thing so we can capture 1965 again!"   Yay, only nope.  It's fake and sickening.  I love the BB's for what I love about them.  BW is one of the greatest musical entities of the 20th century - unfortunately saddled with the stupid marketing/image yoke that has continually suppressed and limited his scope.  He has done wondrous music, for which I am grateful, but allowed to simply be a creator without all the baggage, he might have done so much more.    Just look at what Dylan has been able to do in his elderly years - love him or not, he's been true to himself and done as he wished with no compunction to be the Bob of 1965.   
Bob is probably the only artists of his stature that has continued to move forward. The others that have been at it since the 60's long ago settled into being touring oldies acts, playing their greatest hits forever, and not trying to forge any new ground musically. in Brian's case, he had many years where the music just poured out of him, he was overflowing with musical ideas. It's been a long time since he was in that place, and it's probably best to not expect the inspiration to return.
As always, Bob is the exception.


Title: Re: The trainwreck that is The 50th ann. CD
Post by: guitarfool2002 on May 28, 2020, 06:38:13 PM
The "reunion" was (IMO) a failed opportunity.  It came as no surprise that it was crap, but still I had hopes they could be their ages and make real music as the old men they now are.  Instead we get the "Let's autotune and over produce this thing so we can capture 1965 again!"   Yay, only nope.  It's fake and sickening.  I love the BB's for what I love about them.  BW is one of the greatest musical entities of the 20th century - unfortunately saddled with the stupid marketing/image yoke that has continually suppressed and limited his scope.  He has done wondrous music, for which I am grateful, but allowed to simply be a creator without all the baggage, he might have done so much more.    Just look at what Dylan has been able to do in his elderly years - love him or not, he's been true to himself and done as he wished with no compunction to be the Bob of 1965.   
Bob is probably the only artists of his stature that has continued to move forward. The others that have been at it since the 60's long ago settled into being touring oldies acts, playing their greatest hits forever, and not trying to forge any new ground musically. in Brian's case, he had many years where the music just poured out of him, he was overflowing with musical ideas. It's been a long time since he was in that place, and it's probably best to not expect the inspiration to return.
As always, Bob is the exception.

I'm just curious to hear opinions on Dylan's forging new ground musically in the past 20 years, based on his output and on what new ground has been forged on his last 20 years of releases. Just as a comparison with Brian Wilson, which is what the above points had mentioned, here is a listing of both artists' albums since 2000:

Brian:
Live At The Roxy Theatre 2000
Pet Sounds Live 2002
Gettin In Over My Head 2004
Brian Wilson Presents Smile 2004
What I Really Want For Christmas 2005
That Lucky Old Sun 2008
Brian Wilson Reimagines Gershwin 2010
In The Key Of Disney 2011
No Pier Pressure 2015
Brian Wilson and Friends (CD/DVD) 2016

Bob:
Love And Theft 2001
Modern Times 2006
Together Through Life 2009
Christmas In The Heart 2009
Tempest 2012
Shadows In The Night 2015
Fallen Angels 2016
Triplicate 2017


Of course both men have released some terrific albums, but when you look at their output side by side, is it really that much different? Dylan's last three albums have been entirely covers of standards from the Great American Songbook, with the Dylan style of course. Brian did Gershwin and Disney standards in his own style. They've each had their "original" albums that I'd call new material, and Dylan went back into blues and rockabilly while Brian did both his own signature sounds and brought in more current artists to mix it up stylistically. Dylan collaborated with Robert Hunter, Brian with Van Dyke Parks and others. Dylan has not released a current live album in decades, while Brian obviously has a handful on the list. They both did Christmas albums.

I do see something of a parallel between the two in terms of albums they've released in the past 20 years.

I'm just curious to hear the rationale of Dylan breaking new musical ground and holding that up as a comparison to his peers like Brian and McCartney when they've all been pretty steady in their releases and/or touring activities, and all of them are doing their own thing balancing their legacy of hits and sounds (and styles) with playing the hits for the fans in concert.

I guess I don't see it on the surface regarding Dylan's breaking all that much new musical ground in the past 20 years and if I'm missing something in that discography I'm more than happy to revisit it and give it a new listen, because I'm a Dylan fan. But it seems like if he's been recording jazz standards for the past three albums and five years, he hasn't been breaking much if any new ground in that regard, and his better albums from the past two decades have been done in styles which he had done 50+ years ago as well. Not a critique, just an observation. I'm happy to change my mind with some examples. And of course we'll see what he has to offer soon with his new album.


Title: Re: The trainwreck that is The 50th ann. CD
Post by: Awesoman on May 29, 2020, 12:29:49 PM
The "reunion" was (IMO) a failed opportunity.  It came as no surprise that it was crap, but still I had hopes they could be their ages and make real music as the old men they now are.  Instead we get the "Let's autotune and over produce this thing so we can capture 1965 again!"   Yay, only nope.  It's fake and sickening.  I love the BB's for what I love about them.  BW is one of the greatest musical entities of the 20th century - unfortunately saddled with the stupid marketing/image yoke that has continually suppressed and limited his scope.  He has done wondrous music, for which I am grateful, but allowed to simply be a creator without all the baggage, he might have done so much more.    Just look at what Dylan has been able to do in his elderly years - love him or not, he's been true to himself and done as he wished with no compunction to be the Bob of 1965.   

Are you referring to just the live album or the entire 50th reunion itself? 


Title: Re: The trainwreck that is The 50th ann. CD
Post by: Awesoman on May 29, 2020, 12:32:03 PM
Keep in mind they will be 80 years old in just a few years. I don't know what would be expected at this point in terms of something as groundbreaking or innovative as any of these artists were in their 20's when it was a totally different music business.


Agreed.  I thought the 50th reunion, despite it getting a bit derailed near the end, was overall and awesome year to be a Beach Boys fan.  High-profile appearances and a successful tour as well as a really solid album that was easily the best stuff they've done since the 70's.


Title: Re: The trainwreck that is The 50th ann. CD
Post by: Pretty Funky on May 29, 2020, 01:56:38 PM
In hindsight they were probably victims of their own success. If the album had been a dud, had they not extended the tour from the original 50 shows to over 70 including international gigs, had they not done Bonaroo with its younger audience, the C50 would have just quietly ended. The fact they did all the above and did it well raised expectations probably too high for any continuation.


Title: Re: The trainwreck that is The 50th ann. CD
Post by: Lonely Summer on May 29, 2020, 07:18:16 PM
The "reunion" was (IMO) a failed opportunity.  It came as no surprise that it was crap, but still I had hopes they could be their ages and make real music as the old men they now are.  Instead we get the "Let's autotune and over produce this thing so we can capture 1965 again!"   Yay, only nope.  It's fake and sickening.  I love the BB's for what I love about them.  BW is one of the greatest musical entities of the 20th century - unfortunately saddled with the stupid marketing/image yoke that has continually suppressed and limited his scope.  He has done wondrous music, for which I am grateful, but allowed to simply be a creator without all the baggage, he might have done so much more.    Just look at what Dylan has been able to do in his elderly years - love him or not, he's been true to himself and done as he wished with no compunction to be the Bob of 1965.   
Bob is probably the only artists of his stature that has continued to move forward. The others that have been at it since the 60's long ago settled into being touring oldies acts, playing their greatest hits forever, and not trying to forge any new ground musically. in Brian's case, he had many years where the music just poured out of him, he was overflowing with musical ideas. It's been a long time since he was in that place, and it's probably best to not expect the inspiration to return.
As always, Bob is the exception.

I'm just curious to hear opinions on Dylan's forging new ground musically in the past 20 years, based on his output and on what new ground has been forged on his last 20 years of releases. Just as a comparison with Brian Wilson, which is what the above points had mentioned, here is a listing of both artists' albums since 2000:

Brian:
Live At The Roxy Theatre 2000
Pet Sounds Live 2002
Gettin In Over My Head 2004
Brian Wilson Presents Smile 2004
What I Really Want For Christmas 2005
That Lucky Old Sun 2008
Brian Wilson Reimagines Gershwin 2010
In The Key Of Disney 2011
No Pier Pressure 2015
Brian Wilson and Friends (CD/DVD) 2016

Bob:
Love And Theft 2001
Modern Times 2006
Together Through Life 2009
Christmas In The Heart 2009
Tempest 2012
Shadows In The Night 2015
Fallen Angels 2016
Triplicate 2017


Of course both men have released some terrific albums, but when you look at their output side by side, is it really that much different? Dylan's last three albums have been entirely covers of standards from the Great American Songbook, with the Dylan style of course. Brian did Gershwin and Disney standards in his own style. They've each had their "original" albums that I'd call new material, and Dylan went back into blues and rockabilly while Brian did both his own signature sounds and brought in more current artists to mix it up stylistically. Dylan collaborated with Robert Hunter, Brian with Van Dyke Parks and others. Dylan has not released a current live album in decades, while Brian obviously has a handful on the list. They both did Christmas albums.

I do see something of a parallel between the two in terms of albums they've released in the past 20 years.

I'm just curious to hear the rationale of Dylan breaking new musical ground and holding that up as a comparison to his peers like Brian and McCartney when they've all been pretty steady in their releases and/or touring activities, and all of them are doing their own thing balancing their legacy of hits and sounds (and styles) with playing the hits for the fans in concert.

I guess I don't see it on the surface regarding Dylan's breaking all that much new musical ground in the past 20 years and if I'm missing something in that discography I'm more than happy to revisit it and give it a new listen, because I'm a Dylan fan. But it seems like if he's been recording jazz standards for the past three albums and five years, he hasn't been breaking much if any new ground in that regard, and his better albums from the past two decades have been done in styles which he had done 50+ years ago as well. Not a critique, just an observation. I'm happy to change my mind with some examples. And of course we'll see what he has to offer soon with his new album.
Have you heard the new songs Dylan's been posting online? New album due next month.  And a good chunk of his live set is made up of Time Out of Mind and beyond. Brian doesn't have any recent songs in his live sets.


Title: Re: The trainwreck that is The 50th ann. CD
Post by: thatjacob on May 30, 2020, 07:19:36 AM
For those like you Nate who know auto tune, how would you rate those clips on a scale of 1-10? (with the Live CD being an 11)
I thought Mike was minimal if at all, and the backing 2-3 myself.
I'd rate it a 5-6. The high harmonies together seem inhuman. The threshhold settings on it are too harsh.


Title: Re: The trainwreck that is The 50th ann. CD
Post by: guitarfool2002 on May 30, 2020, 09:20:28 AM
The "reunion" was (IMO) a failed opportunity.  It came as no surprise that it was crap, but still I had hopes they could be their ages and make real music as the old men they now are.  Instead we get the "Let's autotune and over produce this thing so we can capture 1965 again!"   Yay, only nope.  It's fake and sickening.  I love the BB's for what I love about them.  BW is one of the greatest musical entities of the 20th century - unfortunately saddled with the stupid marketing/image yoke that has continually suppressed and limited his scope.  He has done wondrous music, for which I am grateful, but allowed to simply be a creator without all the baggage, he might have done so much more.    Just look at what Dylan has been able to do in his elderly years - love him or not, he's been true to himself and done as he wished with no compunction to be the Bob of 1965.   
Bob is probably the only artists of his stature that has continued to move forward. The others that have been at it since the 60's long ago settled into being touring oldies acts, playing their greatest hits forever, and not trying to forge any new ground musically. in Brian's case, he had many years where the music just poured out of him, he was overflowing with musical ideas. It's been a long time since he was in that place, and it's probably best to not expect the inspiration to return.
As always, Bob is the exception.

I'm just curious to hear opinions on Dylan's forging new ground musically in the past 20 years, based on his output and on what new ground has been forged on his last 20 years of releases. Just as a comparison with Brian Wilson, which is what the above points had mentioned, here is a listing of both artists' albums since 2000:

Brian:
Live At The Roxy Theatre 2000
Pet Sounds Live 2002
Gettin In Over My Head 2004
Brian Wilson Presents Smile 2004
What I Really Want For Christmas 2005
That Lucky Old Sun 2008
Brian Wilson Reimagines Gershwin 2010
In The Key Of Disney 2011
No Pier Pressure 2015
Brian Wilson and Friends (CD/DVD) 2016

Bob:
Love And Theft 2001
Modern Times 2006
Together Through Life 2009
Christmas In The Heart 2009
Tempest 2012
Shadows In The Night 2015
Fallen Angels 2016
Triplicate 2017


Of course both men have released some terrific albums, but when you look at their output side by side, is it really that much different? Dylan's last three albums have been entirely covers of standards from the Great American Songbook, with the Dylan style of course. Brian did Gershwin and Disney standards in his own style. They've each had their "original" albums that I'd call new material, and Dylan went back into blues and rockabilly while Brian did both his own signature sounds and brought in more current artists to mix it up stylistically. Dylan collaborated with Robert Hunter, Brian with Van Dyke Parks and others. Dylan has not released a current live album in decades, while Brian obviously has a handful on the list. They both did Christmas albums.

I do see something of a parallel between the two in terms of albums they've released in the past 20 years.

I'm just curious to hear the rationale of Dylan breaking new musical ground and holding that up as a comparison to his peers like Brian and McCartney when they've all been pretty steady in their releases and/or touring activities, and all of them are doing their own thing balancing their legacy of hits and sounds (and styles) with playing the hits for the fans in concert.

I guess I don't see it on the surface regarding Dylan's breaking all that much new musical ground in the past 20 years and if I'm missing something in that discography I'm more than happy to revisit it and give it a new listen, because I'm a Dylan fan. But it seems like if he's been recording jazz standards for the past three albums and five years, he hasn't been breaking much if any new ground in that regard, and his better albums from the past two decades have been done in styles which he had done 50+ years ago as well. Not a critique, just an observation. I'm happy to change my mind with some examples. And of course we'll see what he has to offer soon with his new album.
Have you heard the new songs Dylan's been posting online? New album due next month.  And a good chunk of his live set is made up of Time Out of Mind and beyond. Brian doesn't have any recent songs in his live sets.

I've heard whatever new material he's put out in advance of the full album, yes. Murder Most Foul and False Prophet specifically. I'm looking forward to hearing the rest - 2 CD's worth! When Murder Most Foul first came out, WXPN played the full 16 minutes, then did something really cool: They did a long set featuring the original records Dylan mentions in the lyrics. That was awesome. However, I have to be honest, 16 minutes started to drag - You have to be in the right frame of mind to listen to that track.

False Prophet - It's a blues. NPR did a thing on how the song sounds like a song called If Lovin' Is Believing by Billy The Kid Emerson, a cut released on Sun in '54...and it does have the same groove and sound.

I thought Dylan's 80 year old voice is sounding more like Tom Waits when he gets into that lower growl range. I dig it, it has a very foreboding and dark quality, and the guy is putting his voice out there front and center just like Cash did on the American records, it's refreshing to hear.

But I come back to what I said earlier...of course not having heard the full new album yet...it sounds like Dylan being Dylan! In terms of breaking any ground musically, it still sounds like Bob being himself, and I think that was my point.

How much new ground will Bob, or Brian, or Sir Paul, or Sir Elton, or Pete Townshend, or The Stones, or Clapton, or any of that original group of the true innovators actually be able to break? Or how much innovation will that original group of innovators and their peers who are now pushing 80 be expected to release on a new project? They literally invented this stuff - some more than others - out of their own imaginations. There was no "Freewheelin", "Highway 61", "Revolver", "Pet Sounds", "Tommy", "Exile", etc for them to draw influence from after the fact...they created and invented it.

I guess I'm saying maybe the time is past for these artists who are the true innovators from the 60's to be *expected* to break new ground musically in their late 70's and 80's. Maybe they will! But I don't expect it, nor am I disappointed if they put out music that is simply them being them at a given time when they release a new work.

I don't hear Dylan doing anything that's not Dylan, which is what makes him Dylan! If that makes sense lol. But I wouldn't use him or any of the new releases from any of those artists to compare to others and say "this one is breaking new ground, and the others are not" when Dylan is putting out new music that is compelling and a great listen, but is there truly any new ground being broken if he's basing his track off of a Sun Records B-side from 1954? 


Title: Re: The trainwreck that is The 50th ann. CD
Post by: SenorPotatoHead on June 08, 2020, 07:54:35 AM
The "reunion" was (IMO) a failed opportunity.  It came as no surprise that it was crap, but still I had hopes they could be their ages and make real music as the old men they now are.  Instead we get the "Let's autotune and over produce this thing so we can capture 1965 again!"   Yay, only nope.  It's fake and sickening.  I love the BB's for what I love about them.  BW is one of the greatest musical entities of the 20th century - unfortunately saddled with the stupid marketing/image yoke that has continually suppressed and limited his scope.  He has done wondrous music, for which I am grateful, but allowed to simply be a creator without all the baggage, he might have done so much more.    Just look at what Dylan has been able to do in his elderly years - love him or not, he's been true to himself and done as he wished with no compunction to be the Bob of 1965.   

Are you referring to just the live album or the entire 50th reunion itself? 

I am referring to the studio album. 
In reading comments here, people keep talking about "breaking new ground" - and that isn't what I mean in my criticisms of the album.  It's not about breaking new ground.  What new ground is anyone breaking these days as far as popular music goes?  I don't expect the BB's or any other older artist to be cutting edge or breaking new ground - all I want to hear is an honest, genuine expression of their art as they are now, not some c*ck up of what they were 55 years ago.  I want their voices, not auto-tuned b.s., etc.  There's often too much adherence to whatever "image" these older acts feel they had.  My wish is that they had stepped out of that yoke and recognized that ultimately it isn't the image that draws the audience - it's the music.  You don't have to ignore the image, you can touch upon it, but what were you before the image?  You were a group of guys who loved to sing harmony.  Are you now not old men who still love to sing harmony?  Good!  I love harmony, whether boys in their 20's or men in their 70's - I want to hear those voices as they are NOW.   I don't know if I am expressing my thoughts very well, but basically I would have loved an album of them around a piano (and maybe a few other instruments) singing together as well as they are now able.  Maybe that wouldn't have sold, but I would have bought it. 
Dylan has been brought up in this thread - and no, Dylan isn't breaking new ground or anything - but to me, he comes through as genuine as who, what and where he is now.  I like that, and from my perspective he succeeds.  He is one of the only older artists I find meaningful simply because he is what he is.  He's not gilding his lily.   
Anyway, this is all just my personal preferences and whatnot.  Doesn't make me "right" (it's just right for me) and no one need agree.   


Title: Re: The trainwreck that is The 50th ann. CD
Post by: Rocky Raccoon on June 08, 2020, 10:36:12 AM
I was listening to my iTunes library on Shuffle and the version of "California Saga" from this album came up and it actually sounded pretty good!


Title: Re: The trainwreck that is The 50th ann. CD
Post by: Pretty Funky on June 08, 2020, 11:09:09 AM
From memory that’s disc 2? I said it back in 2013 when it came out but the second disc isn’t quite as bad as the first to my ears and in fact that’s the only one I put on my iPod.


Title: Re: The trainwreck that is The 50th ann. CD
Post by: Pretty Funky on June 08, 2020, 11:31:02 AM
The topic of veteran artists ‘breaking new ground’  My YouTube viewing keeps throwing tracks from the new Dion album at me, and I’ve got to say it’s pretty good for an 80 year old. Some great musical guests help of course.



Title: Re: The trainwreck that is The 50th ann. CD
Post by: Lonely Summer on June 08, 2020, 12:04:33 PM
The "reunion" was (IMO) a failed opportunity.  It came as no surprise that it was crap, but still I had hopes they could be their ages and make real music as the old men they now are.  Instead we get the "Let's autotune and over produce this thing so we can capture 1965 again!"   Yay, only nope.  It's fake and sickening.  I love the BB's for what I love about them.  BW is one of the greatest musical entities of the 20th century - unfortunately saddled with the stupid marketing/image yoke that has continually suppressed and limited his scope.  He has done wondrous music, for which I am grateful, but allowed to simply be a creator without all the baggage, he might have done so much more.    Just look at what Dylan has been able to do in his elderly years - love him or not, he's been true to himself and done as he wished with no compunction to be the Bob of 1965.   

Are you referring to just the live album or the entire 50th reunion itself? 

I am referring to the studio album. 
In reading comments here, people keep talking about "breaking new ground" - and that isn't what I mean in my criticisms of the album.  It's not about breaking new ground.  What new ground is anyone breaking these days as far as popular music goes?  I don't expect the BB's or any other older artist to be cutting edge or breaking new ground - all I want to hear is an honest, genuine expression of their art as they are now, not some c*ck up of what they were 55 years ago.  I want their voices, not auto-tuned b.s., etc.  There's often too much adherence to whatever "image" these older acts feel they had.  My wish is that they had stepped out of that yoke and recognized that ultimately it isn't the image that draws the audience - it's the music.  You don't have to ignore the image, you can touch upon it, but what were you before the image?  You were a group of guys who loved to sing harmony.  Are you now not old men who still love to sing harmony?  Good!  I love harmony, whether boys in their 20's or men in their 70's - I want to hear those voices as they are NOW.   I don't know if I am expressing my thoughts very well, but basically I would have loved an album of them around a piano (and maybe a few other instruments) singing together as well as they are now able.  Maybe that wouldn't have sold, but I would have bought it. 
Dylan has been brought up in this thread - and no, Dylan isn't breaking new ground or anything - but to me, he comes through as genuine as who, what and where he is now.  I like that, and from my perspective he succeeds.  He is one of the only older artists I find meaningful simply because he is what he is.  He's not gilding his lily.   
Anyway, this is all just my personal preferences and whatnot.  Doesn't make me "right" (it's just right for me) and no one need agree.   
I agree with that.
I guess what I meant by "breaking new ground" was going forward, instead of just looking backwards. For most of the "heritage" acts, that's what they have become - just replaying the songs they recorded over 50 years ago, trying to be that image. Paul McCartney is still trying to be Beatle Paul. The Beach Boys, in their splintered state, barely acknowledge anything they recorded after 1967.