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I had Made in California on shuffle today and it landed on the 'Surfers Rule - with session intro'. It sounds like to me that is has David on the bass at the beginning and not guitar - is that a bass? Sounds deep and like it's kind of distorting out. Common for those old Fender tube bass amps. I didn't know David played bass on any of those early career sessions.

I know Al and Brian played bass, and during a brief overlap both David and Al were in the recording studio.

So is there a list where we see who played bass on early 60's stuff before studio musicians began to creep in?

I had never considered that, but Murry also says David to sweeten up and not remove treble (so I don't think it's likely would've said that about bass), plus it's possible that Al plays since this is on the Surfer Girl LP.  Plus, I know guitarfool2002 and/or c-man and/or Jon Stebbins have discussed that Carl and David used different string gauges than what are typically available now.

There are partial lists available, and I can dig up everything I've written down from the c-man's archives tomorrow.

EDIT: I think Jon Stebbins and Carrie Marks have said in the past that David has no memory of Carl playing bass in the studio while he was there. No comments about himself, but I assume he would said something if it happened/he remembered at that moment. Obviously he was 14/15, so understandable if he forgets. Just thought I’d throw that out there. Not that I’m an expert, but I’m going to (slightly) throw my money behind on Al.

I think it's probably Carl on bass on Surfers Rule.

That said, Al did start to become the de facto studio bassist for the band around then, after he "came back" (Well, I never knew that he was gone, still they say Al is back...)

Can't be Carl on bass as you hear their Dad say 'let me hear you David' and he plays what sounds like a bass. You hear Carl at the beginning plucking away at guitar, too.

As for the comment "I had never considered that, but Murry also says David to sweeten up and not remove treble (so I don't think it's likely would've said that about bass)"

Murry was kind of known to say stuff just to say stuff, it seems. He was also known to direct the guitars to be super trebly and bright. David Marks has credited him for suggesting that and making that sound come through. I think it's very possible that Murry thought David had a good bass tone and not to remove treble as the mix sounded good from in the room. merely to play smoother/cleaner etc as a way to 'sweeten it up'. He is kind of flubbing notes on the transition.

For me, it sounds like a bass being played through a Fender Showman and kind of 'flubbing out'. I went and played my P bass with a pick through my 1961 Fender Showman and at higher levels it will kind of flub out.

It's also a very typical bass line of the day doing the 1, 3, 5, 6.

Upon further listening in headphones: I'm almost certain David is playing bass. Especially when he transitions to the next part when Brian tells him to slow down.

I don't hear another guitar come in, either. Brian is on piano, too. Leaving the bass open.

I'd almost bet David is playing bass on it. Not that Wikipedia is de facto - but he isn't credited with playing bass on the whole album; perhaps this should be revised? Is this the only instance he is on bass?

Waiting to hear what C man would have to say, but at this point I feel pretty confident saying David is playing bass, which is kind of revolutionary at this point.

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Murry says "start it out with him, Carl--you and David".  So it can be Carl as far as that goes.

Before Today is not my personnel wheelhouse, but here's what I've got for Today, SDSN, and PS:

Today:

Al plays bass on: DHMLS, WIGU(TBAM), SKMTW and is the only BB to play bass on that record.

SDSN: Al plays bass on GfNYC and YSGTM; Brian likely on TIKH and definitely on GDTM

PS: Brian likely plays bass on TNM, and may have overdubbed a second 6-string bass part there too, but it could have been Al.

Uh...Brian is on bass for "Dance, Dance, Dance", and likely overdubbed a 6-string Dano part on "I'm So Young".

I'll have to dig out my SOT disc and listen to the full session for "Surfer's Rule", but my recollection is that Carl definitley played bass on "South Bay Surfer" and overdubbed the lead guitar.

And, while not bootlegged, I've heard the full session tape for "Little Deuce Coupe", and that one definitely has Carl on bass, Brian on piano, and David playing the only guitar. Which is interesting, since it was cut at the same session as "Surfer Girl" (Brian on bass), and the basic track for "Catch A Wave" (Al on bass). Three songs in three hours, each with a different Beach Boy playing bass.
Probably the only time THAT ever happened!

Although, there was the Party! session at which Carl overdubbed bass on "You've Got To Hide Your Love Away" - if Brian and Bruce both played bass that particular day, that would count. And, of course there's there were the Lei'd In Hawaii concerts at which Carl, Al, and Brian each took turns on the bass (professionally recorded, therefore counting as a recording session).

I think we've long since established that I am basically good for nothing at this point.

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Fascinating. So for the song "Little Deuce Coupe", would that be the only incident of David being the only guitar player on a recorded BBs song?

c-man, is that the only Party! song that Carl plays bass on? I know during the sessions, Bruce comments for Carl to go get his bass, but I assumed it was a joke.

And, regarding the Surfer Girl album, does that mean that the idea of marathon sessions with Al alternating between playing bass on some songs and sitting around doing nothing on others is possible?

wow never knew carl played so much studio bass.  of course he did, but wow, had no idea......for the pre pet sounds stuff what did Al play bass on?  im sorry i was born during the keepin the summer alive tour and dont have all those abbreviations hardwired- huge fan of all eras though

Al:
DHMLS - Don’t My Little Sister
WIGU(TBAM) - When I Grow Up To Be A Man
SKMTW - She Knows Me Too Well
GfNYC - The Girl from New York City
YSGTM - You’re So Good To Me

Brian:
TIKH - Then I Kissed Her
GDTM - Girl Don’t Tell Me
TNM - That’s Not Me

I thought Al also played on I’m So Young too (Al on Fender, Carl on Dano, and Brian on an overdubbed Dano).
The Dano on That’s Not Me could be Brian or Al, according to c-man and Joshilyn.


On an another related topic, SaltyMarshmallow, you definitely think Carl is on that much? Crazy, especially Do It Again, which a I thought would’ve leaned towards Al.

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Good work.

SaltyMarshmallow, thanks for responding quickly and sorry for the doubting tone of my question. It’s just so shocking for me that Al can go from being the studio bassist to barely playing on anything unless he brought it the band or sang lead on it. But then again, this is The Beach Boys, and all sorts of crazy stuff has happened and continues to. Thanks again!!

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It is strange that Al was such a prominent instrumentalist from Surfer Girl through Summer Days, and then drops out. Of course, he plays here and there, but sparingly. And like others have pointed off, when he does play, it's on something he's singing or co-wrote like Crack At Your Love, Island Girl, It's About Time...

Given the fact that much KTSA was recorded at his studio, I wonder if he played on that album more than one would think?

SaltyMarshmallow, do you have any clue about who played bass on the various Party! songs? I’m going to guess Bruce on Barbara Ann because he seems to play the same bassline at Knebworth. Not like we can use Brian in 2012 as a judge since he stays on the roots of the chords. Also, is You’ve Got To Hide Your Love Away the only one on that album with Carl on bass? Bruce does make a joke about Carl grabbing “his bass,” but it sounds like a joke.


C-man said that he thinks it’s because Al’s very hard on his own playing, I don’t think Al plays on Crack At Your Love, but he does (rhythm, I’m assuming) on California Calling. I remember c-man says that Al plays on Santa Ana Winds and Endless Harmony, plus at least one or two outtakes: Goin’ To The Beach (and maybe Johnny B. Goode, but I can’t remember.) I’m guessing School Days could be a possibility too?

I strongly wish that there’d be reissues of the albums with accurate liner notes of who played what . Or at least as accurate as possible, for their entire career, collected in one easy to access spot, almost as bad as I would love to actually play around with the mixes ... for fun not to improve on what was done because that is impossible. More because I’m interested in hearing all of the little details .

Regarding "Barbara Ann" - Bruce once told me (in person) that Brian played the bass on that.

From the KTSA sessions, I only have AFM documentation and sometimes tape box track sheet notation to go by, as I've not heard the tapes. The only indication there of an Al instrumental contribution is on "Goin' To The Beach", on which both the AFM contract AND the track sheet notation indicate he added a guitar part. There's actually no documentation of him playing on "Santa Ana Winds", but I'd say there's a very good chance that he did (since it's his song, and since no other guitarist is documented as having played on it).

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I think that's likely due to proximity - Al lived in Big Sur by then, whereas Dennis and Carl were still in the L.A. area. I'm guessing Al was in town whenever needed for vocal sessions, but didn't worry abut being there for the instrumental tracking, unless it was his song.

Very interesting. During the period when the band owned Brother Studio, where exactly in town was everyone living? I'm wondering how many minutes it would've taken them to get there if they had the inclination to record on a whim. Did Dennis actually have a residence in Santa Monica or nearby? And how about the others?

Dennis lived on his yacht the Harmony in Marina Del Rey for much of that period, just minutes from Santa Monica. He also had residences in Malibu and Venice that overlapped that period. But you could say he virtually lived in the studio on and off as well.

One of the reasons I enjoy 15BO so much is the presence of BBs on backing tracks. I'd say there's just as much interesting Moog stuff going on, on 15BO as Love You, it's just more subtle.

A definitive list, in one source, of all musicians and technicians involved would be very cool. Of course, I understand it's easy to wish for that--- much harder to get it printed. I respect all the work C Man does along these lines.

It's quite obvious over the nearly 60 year career The BBs have had that is Al is self conscious of his instrumental ability. That's why the heavy lifting went more and more to others. Though, since C50 his guitar has been very audible, in shows I've seen in 2015, 2017, and 2019. And he's obviously doing almost all of the guitar work in his solo shows now. It's cool that it seems like he's gotten more comfortable and confident with his playing. When I've seen Brian's band play Sail On Sailor, Al plays a co-lead.


He's a tremendous bassist. It sometimes surprises me he didn't become the band's official bassist. He plays so much on 63-65 recordings, and his tone and rhythm are great! Very tight Fender Bass sound. Of course, on the road he played rhythm guitar, leaving the role of bassist open, for Bruce to *sorta* be official bassist, but of course he was playing a lot of keys too as early as 67.

Bruce and Al both would've been competent enough to assume the role full time. Maybe they'd need a little practice for confidence. But they've both proven their chops time and time again.

Very interesting that Carl was so passionate about the bass. It's hard for me to picture him assuming that role full time, as I associate so much of their 1961-1997 sound with Carl's guitar playing. Of course, Ed Carter and others would go on to take some of those lines- especially in the early 80's, but Carl was such a fantastic lead guitarist, playing all those iconic riffs, it wouldn't have made sense to strap him on Fender Bass, in my opinion.

With Mike's inclination to cut costs and save money, I wonder if he's ever asked Bruce to play bass again, he'd need one less member  :lol :lol :lol

Bruce hasn't seemed interest in the bassist (for more than 2-5 songs) since his return to the band in 1979. In a way, it makes sense, as playing bass was never his strong suit. It'd be like if Brian was full time drummer. But at the same time, I think Bruce is a really underrated bassist and could play songs like WIBN with relative ease, and sound good. To think he played that bassline and sang in the harmony stack at the same time, during that 65-66 era when the music was getting more and more complicated, is quite the feat. Bruce is a very talented guy.

OK it's from 1970, but HELP is Brian on bass.

Say... now that I think about it... who played bass on I’d Love Just Once To See You & How She Boogalooed It? I know the latter only had Carl, Bruce & Brian on the basic track.

This info isn't necessarily up-to-the-minute, but it's pretty good for laying out what we know/knew about Wild Honey bass:

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,25166.0.html (http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,25166.0.html)

Thanks! My guesses are that Just Once is Brian, and Boogalooed is Bruce.

I'd Love Just Once to See You is both Carl and Brian, Boogalooed is Al.

Wait really? So the organ on Boogalooed was on the basic track? Cool! That would put Carl on guitar and Brian on drums!

And for Just Once, I’m Guessing that one of them played bass on the basic track and the other overdubbed another bass. Did Carl play bass on the basic? If so, what did Brian do?

Oh no, both were extremely simple - the Boogalooed basic track was just Carl on guitar and Al on bass. Carl might have overdubbed everything else (another electric guitar, acoustic guitar, drum, maracas), besides Bruce's organ. Al's name doesn't appear on the AFM contract but there you go. It's possible/likely that they recorded Mama Says later that same session with all of the group but Dennis present.

I haven't personally heard it, but the I'd Love Just Once to See You tracking was supposedly Carl and Al strumming acoustic guitars with Brian tapping drum sticks together. Carl and Al overdubbed more acoustic guitars to fill out the arpeggio B sections (left blank originally while Brian kept the tempo, as I understand it - could be wrong) and Carl added electric guitar. The dominant picked bass part is Carl, and the duller thumbed bass in the B sections is likely Brian, played simultaneously with an extra Carl acoustic guitar.

Hmmmm... would Brian have produced from the booth then at the basic tracking session? That would make sense to me.

There’s a lot about the Wild Honey sessions that we probably still don’t know. It doesn’t help that every single member is listed on the afm contracts.

He's not audible, no, but then I haven't heard all of it. He was at least in the building at the time.

That’s strange. Listed on the basic track and didn’t do ANYTHING? Something’s fishy about this...

AFM contracts by that time were largely a formality, not taken too seriously unless a hired musician needed to be paid. The sheet for Cool Water and Here Comes the Night lists all six Beach Boys in spite of no indication that Dennis or Bruce were present. The same's true of a lot of Smiley Smile, whether it's wrongly including or excluding someone. You can't trust them to be accurate when only the group themselves are concerned.

Wait... Dennis didn’t drum on the original version of HCTN? Then who did??

Probably either Brian or Carl. Or it could've been added by Dennis, but it's only a single deadened snare drum, whacked on 2 and 4 constantly.

Well in that case it might be Brian. Very similar to his drum work on ‘Til I Die & Let Us Go On This Way.

Oooh I know another one to add to the Brian on bass list. I’m In Great Shape (it’s been ten years but still).

Ooohh more Brian songs (again people already knew this): Sandy.


Do It Again

You’re As Cool As Can Be 2

I’d Love Just Once To See You (with Carl, and Carl’s the more prominent bass here)

And possibly Games Two Can Play.

Al on Boogalooed.