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Hello all;

Can you think of any time a clarinet was on a Beach Boys record before Pet Sounds?

And what can you think of that a clarinet was on post Smile?

Thanks!  Trying to compile a master list of clarinet parts so I can transcribe and learn them all.

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"I Went To Sleep":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSsQOfKm2y0

Looking through the wiki credits for 15 Big Ones I see there are four clarinettists credited on "Rock And Roll Music", namely Dennis Dreith, John J. Kelson, Jr., Jack Nimitz and Mike Altschol!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzyLAfOGc4U

My quick wiki search (which I regularly update to include the findings of you, c-man, and our other board experts) turns up nothing pre-Pet Sounds, adds Time to Get Alone, and I currently have nothing from 15BO other than R&RM and Had to Phone Ya.   I haven't heard all of Adult/Child yet and cannot comment on that.

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Thanks everyone.  This is lining up with my own beliefs.

Also,

how interesting to follow Brian's little fads.  No clarinets till Pet Sounds, and then all of a sudden they become almost de rigeur for a session. 

The AFM contract for "Time To Get Alone" has Jay Migliori playing a double, and specifically credits him with Flute and Clarinet. There are several mixes of that song, including the Redwood mix eventually released on the Three Dog Night anthology set Celebrate. I seem to recall that most of the wind instruments were dropped on the mixes included on 20/20 and MIC, but I recall that the Redwood mix includes more of them, so it's possibly there. And maybe the Beach Boys' 1967 mix on Hawthorne, CA. Not really inclined to dig them out now myself, though.

It almost sounds like a bass clarinet. I'll risk my reputation and stick with a member of the clarinet family. ;)

Well, the 20/20 and MIC mixes include what I believe is a Mellophonium...but that sounds altogether different. EDIT: just realized you're referring to "I Went To Sleep", not "TTGA". But to me, "I Went To Sleep" sounds more alto or bass flute-ish. And, the track sheet for that is labeled "Flute".

Yeah, I've always thought that the "R&R Music" credit for clarinets must be an error, likewise "clavinets" on "It's OK" is clearly a typo. As for "That Same Song" - there are two AFM contracts for that - one is the basic track, which has Steve and Jay both down for saxes, then an overdub contract from the following day that has Jay down for clarinet, but Steve down for sax again - wonder if that's a typo? Do you hear TWO clarinets on that track? Interestingly, an early version of Al's decades-spanning masterpiece "Don't Fight The Sea" was also recorded at those two sessions, according to the contract - and THAT apparently featured saxes, clarinet(s), and violins, as well.

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Alto Flute almost for certain.  Although, C-Man, is there any indication of the identity of the Flautist?  I doubt a reedman like Steve or Jay would shell out for a bass flute, since the repertoire is (and was) fairly limited, but a true flute player might have a bass flute for gigs like "The Jungle Book"  or whatever.

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Per the AFM contract, the flautist on "IWTS" is Jay. I should mention that the track sheet also indicates the presence of a Mellotron (which we decided would have actually been a Chamberlin). Not sure of the sound that was utilized for, but perhaps Jay played an alto and the Chamberlin produced the bass flute sound? Or maybe the Chamberlin was only used for the bird sounds in the middle?

What about "Caroline, No"? Are you just hearing alto flute there, or bass flute, too? The contract for that one credits Bill Green with "flute" and "bass flute", but also lists Jay, Jim Horn, and Plas Johnson, with no indication as to what they're playing (plus Steve, but we know from the session tape that he's playing percussion on the basic track not a reed instrument).

Well, the interesting thing about Alto and Bass flutes--or rather, the interesting things about them: one, what we now call a bass flute actually occupies the slot that should be called a tenor flute, in terms of the compass scheme of the flute family.  But because the tenor flute is its own bizarre thing that bucks the taxonomy system, it works out that way.

And then to make matters more confusing, the anglo-american firmament's name for what we'd now call the Alto Flute in G was "bass flute," agaion because of the sort of messed up taxonomy of the flute family, and the extreme rarity of the true bass flute.

In other words, the AF of M sheet -fill-outer might have known the Alto flute in G as a "bass flute" and notated that as such.  I don't think that any of the flute parts in "C, No" drops below the playable range of an Alto in G - so if it was a true bass flute, it'd be cognizable as such only by very subtle timbral difference...


Also - how funny that Steve Douglas became a professional auxilliary percussionist and bass-note piano player for Brian.

Most people who hear a low flute part seem to assume it's a bass flute, when it's 99% of the time an alto flute. There are very few recorded bass flute parts in popular music (jazz, pop, etc...) because the instrument is not very agile at all. The only person who may have used one more than the norm in jazz or pop would have been Henry Mancini because he was a flute player himself and knew the instrument, and could write for it - Just like Nelson Riddle's classic arrangements often feature terrific and very technical trombone sectionals because Riddle himself was a trombonist and knew how to write for them. You hear all kinds of flutes from piccolo down to bass playing on Mancini's "Peter Gunn" music, both the studio albums and the soundtrack to the TV show itself (they were different sessions).

But apart from that, unless it's documented, I'd assume if you hear a low flute sound it was an alto flute.

Bass clarinet is a different story. Most working sax players had at least an Eb and Bb standard clarinet in their road cases for "doubles" on both session and big-band gigs. Some of the tenor or bari players would have had a bass clarinet too as a double. You hear a lot of bass clarinet on early-period Duke Ellington charts. In fact, that GV session film footage actually shows a bass clarinet being played if I remember, I think I took a screenshot of it when that footage first aired on PBS. So obviously bass clarinet was both available and used on Brian's sessions - Like alto flute, if you hear that low reed sound, it's most likely bass clarinet.

As far as availability - Most working reed players had multiple clarinets and saxes, and if they switched instruments on a session, they could invoice it as a "double" and get paid for both instruments. Good motivation to have them, I'd say.

Would there happen to be any clarinets on the tag of Summer's Gone?

You could interpret that as either "easy money" or Brian giving Steve a gift for all the work he did on those sessions earlier. Steve would get paid the same if he hit finger cymbals for three beats in a chorus as he would for playing a full sax chart, and if he moved to tambourine he could submit that as a double and get paid even more.

That was one of the ways musicians got their "bonus" back in the day. Brian was known in the industry as being very generous with his musicians, while other producers had a very bad rep on the opposite end of the generosity spectrum to where certain musicians refused to work sessions for those people who were very "tight" in the budget. Brian would deliberately run sessions a few minutes over the clock so the musicians would get paid for the next hour without having to play. Good guy.

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It could have been a misprint where the much more common alto flute was played, or they could have legit been using a tenor flute. I chalk it up to whoever wrote out the session sheet being told it was a tenor flute or assuming it was even though it could have been an alto and more likely was an alto. Again, there just weren't many tenor or bass flutes being used unless it was a Mancini session lol. Chalk it up as well to the slang terms of the day, like people still calling an electric bass a "Fender Bass", slang which dates back to the 50's.

Steve was moving into being more of an exec at that time, and was contracting a lot of the sessions.  Certainly an easy way for Brian to say thanks, without requiring a lot more of effort from the guy.  Steve is one of those guys who clearly enjoyed Brian's company and Brian his.

I think it'd have to be just a sort of loose use of the word.

OK, so the lower flute on Caroline actually does have to be a bass flute--it goes down below the Alto Flute's compass.

So I'm thinking the lineup is:

1 concert flute, 2 altos, and a bass?

Just remembered that there's clarinet (and bass clarinet) on some of the Imagination songs - like, "She Says That She Needs Me". Not a BBs record, of course, but a BW record nonetheless.

In this video of the Caroline backing track, at what time stamp in the track do you hear the low note that suggests it's lower than an alto flute?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RypKTz1Kmpg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RypKTz1Kmpg)

Just an aside: Whether it's actually there in the blend or not, I always thought there was a clarinet in the marching band ensemble heard on the "Be True To Your School" single mix. What woodwind says "marching band" more than a clarinet and piccolo?  :lol

If you sing the lyrics to the melody at the end that the flutes play, the "did" in "where did your long hair go" is a middle C on the lowest flute and should be the lowest note an alto flute can play, but the melody goes much lower (to at least an F3, can't tell if the low Db is even played on the bass flute).

Speaking of flutes and Pet Sounds era tracks, I just had a listen to the first Good Vibrations session on UM, and it seems as if there's a quartet of flutes/alto flutes/piccolos on the verse (with one playing the melody, and the other three forming chords around it). However, the sessionography in the Smile book gives Bill Green a credit on contrabass clarinet, which I'm not hearing anywhere. What does the AFM contract say?

Also, the 4/9 session has Arthur C. Smith credited for ocarina and piccolo in the book, but I'm just hearing piccolo throughout the session. I'm guessing ocarina was tried in early rehearsals and not kept?

on that video 0:58 is one example of a low concert E that would be full minor third below the Alto's low G.  (keeping in mind that that backing track is sped up to match the LP)

Keep in mind the track was recorded a half-step lower too - In the original key before it was sped up, I did hear what sounded like a flute hitting its lowest note as an "E". So the melody and the corresponding notes would be:
"Where (E) did (B) your (G) long (F) hair (D) go (A) oh (G) oh (F)"

So yes, the alto flute's low range would stop at the "G", and the melody goes under that. It's very hard to hear but in this case yes it would be lower than an alto flute if it is a flute doubling down an octave.

Here's a quick transcrip of one way to do it.  I haven't added in all the nice little flutey embellishments and the rhythm isn't quite right but the pitches are.  It's not laid out to follow the song but simply all the times the flute play condensed into one iteration of each.

(https://i.ibb.co/gJg4mGQ/Screen-Shot-2020-04-07-at-2-25-47-PM.png)

At some point in that first session, Brian calls out the contra clarinet by name. Maybe he misspoke, or maybe that instrument was replaced by the final take, but the assignment is based on that. What I have down as a tenor flute could well by an alto flute.

As for the 4/9 session - yes, quite possibly.

Another important note on naming conventions - within the Clarinet family now; "contra clarinet" is not really a thing -- there are contra-alto and contrabass clarinets.  Contrabass clarinets are really quite rare, even moreso than bass flutes.  If there is a clarinet lower than a bass clarinet on a BBs record, I'd expect it to be a contra-alto clarinet, which, while still relatively rare, seems more likely to even be manufactured let alone purchase-able at that time.

For a beautiful example, see: https://www.wwbw.com/Selmer-Paris-Model-40-Contra-Alto-Clarinet-620602.wwbw (https://www.wwbw.com/Selmer-Paris-Model-40-Contra-Alto-Clarinet-620602.wwbw)

And as you can see, it costs about the same as a luxury sedan.  So you have to know you're gonna use it before you take out a loan on that!

What do you make of the "contra clarinet" on the 4/9 session? On The Smile Sessions, disc 5, track 2 at 5:40, it plays some very low Bbs and Ebs during the bridge (I can't tell what octave). Then at 6:12 it plays the bass line. Is this firmly in the contra alto range?

I agree about the contrabass clarinet - As with some of the other examples, the naming of certain specialized instruments like this may not have reflected what the actual definition would be.  If I would guess, I'd say it was a  more standard "bass clarinet" as they were very common outside classical orchestras because big-band arrangements used them occasionally.

I will say that there *is* a possibility for any of these more obscure specialty instruments in and around Hollywood, since some of the main uses for them were not in orchestral literature but rather in film scoring work. So there actually would be more of these among the musicians who worked on the film music circuit around LA than there may be elsewhere.

I compare it to Brian finding and hiring literally the only guy with an Electro-Theremin from the film scoring scene to play on his records, along with the guy many say was the only pedal steel and lap steel guitarist in LA who could sight-read specific notated parts on those instruments - Al Vescovo. There is a track record with Brian so the possibilities are definitely more than perhaps producers working in other areas. Who knows.

I think the low low concert Gb is the lowest note a standard Contra-Alto can hit.  Of course with clarinets there's always deluxe models with extensions.  It goes lower than a bass clarinet though, certainly.

All of this means, damn it, I'm going to have to rent a lot of woodwind instruments to demonstrate their use on Beach Boys records...

I think contrabass clarinets are more common than you might think. I went to a city college, my alto sax playing was so bad that the instructor had me play bassoon parts on the contrabass clarinet.

I'm sure most colleges with a music program have one for rep.

On the issue of the bass clarinet: Photos from the GV session films showing Jay Migliori sitting next to Tommy Morgan inside Western 3, where Jay is clearly playing a bass clarinet:

(https://i.imgur.com/5mZ5aOk.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/0HQBJLP.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/S6hIh3a.jpg)

Note the RCA 77 ribbon mics...

Yeah, I love that film.

Jay was the low reed guy, for sure. 

I feel like the 77 was to them what the 57 is now.  They put it on everything.