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For those that do not know about this "performance", please read following regarding the Beach Boys performing at the Safari Club's trophy hunting event.

https://www.change.org/p/beach-boys-stop-supporting-trophy-hunting?utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=custom_url&recruited_by_id=5ffbfb80-7e12-0130-6bb4-3c764e049b10

Thank you very much for posting this. I was not aware and I'm very, very disturbed by this news. I guess we now know that there is no low that Mike Love won't sink to. For someone who claims to be an environmental crusader this is absolutely despicable. I recognize that there will be a range of views on this, and that's okay, but if this gig goes ahead, I'll be selling my tickets to the upcoming Mike and Bruce show in April and donating the money to a conservation organization.  

Signed. It's truly despicable to think they would play this gig.

This +1 .

Why on earth would they do this?

"The unstable animal never has been changed so rapidly.
The motor and the plane and the great war have gone over him..."
~ Robinson Jeffers "The Beaks of Eagles"

And now trophy hunters, too.  :'(


Mike, if ever you believed that poem that was important enough to be included in the Beach Boys' music, please don't do this.

I'm not an online petition signer but there are limits.

I'm surprised people are surprised that Mike Love would stoop this low to collect a paycheck. His reputation stinks to high heaven so why not stink it up even more with this pathetic scenario? I like the petition idea and to go one further, I'd say a massive boycott of his fake Beach Boys show would perhaps show him who's boss. Has anyone posted their feelings about this on his Facebook page? If they did I'm sure he'd have them quickly deleted. What a guy.

Ppppfffff...... here  we go again ...... dont  go to their shows...dont buy their music...... dont.....why i even bother..... :-X

I'm offended that it's just Mike and Bruce and they call themselves "The Beach Boys."

Elsewhere it is being said that we should devote our energy to changing the laws, not protesting The Beach Boys band/music...which was called "bullying" in this context.

Someone brought up a friggin fantastic point earlier:


Here's another lyric co-written by MIKE himself:

"We live on the edge of a body of water
Warmed by the blood of the cold hearted
Slaughter of the otter
Wonder how she feels, mother seal
It's no wonder the Pacific Ocean is blue
The flagship of death is an old whaling trawler
The people are rising over whale killing crawlers
You gotta holler more
Wait a minute can't you see, you gotta let 'em be"

So now we're all bullies just because we're following Mike's own muse for disgust at the supporting of the deaths of innocent animals? Logically thinking about this, bullying behavior is an act that hurts another being for the sole reason of domination and ego...gee what does that remind anyone of....cough....trophy hunting....

Also, I don't see how boycotting The Beach Boys is an act of bullying...back in the land of reality I just gotta thank all of you here for being rational about this. I can completely get hunting for the sake of putting food on one's plate (even though I'm more and more shying away from this type of lifestyle). But hunting for prize and hunting for survival are two totally different things - and the former being utterly shameful.

The Beach Boys don't need this money, they seriously don't. Just add another rodeo gig to your lineup Mike! That is at least a little less embarrassing than this charade.

I posted my thoughts on Mike's facebook page.  They hadn't been deleted last time I checked.  And I did say I would not be going to any more Mike shows. 

I have a long line of hunters in my family, mostly of deer, bear, and birds. But I don't believe in hunting  "wild" or "exotic" game.

I’m horrified they would do this type of show and I actually like the live band, mind you, so I’m quite disappointed.

I think it's very thoughtless of Mike to attend pro-trophy hunting event. He (and those in the management team) should've known that a lot of people wouldn't tolerate those who kill for fun, and on business perspective, this would hurt the band's brand and immensely damage future revenue from touring and merchandise.

That being said, take a look at what the petition states:


I can't quite agree with this, as this would surely affect the revenue of Brian, Al and Carl's estate who we're not sure have agreed with the attendance in the first place. Plus, those unfamiliar with the business side of the band might quit going to Brian and Al's show in protest against trophy hunting. The petition should've clarified that Mike and Bruce are the only ones currently tour as the the Beach Boys, and Brian and Al tours separately as a solo act.

(You might be technically able to blame Brian on the grounds that Brian reportedly has voted for Mike to use the Beach Boys brand for touring, and receive some of the revenue(http://endlessharmony.boards.net/post/5522/thread (http://endlessharmony.boards.net/post/5522/thread)), but I'm not willing to subscribe to that logic)

Also, I'm not a big fan, or rather skeptic about this "cancel culture". Let's put it this way: Imagine that Mike's Beach Boys didn't withdraw from the event, their sales declined, and the record label actually disowned the band. Would it contribute to raise people's awareness against trophy hunting? I honestly doubt it. Rather, I could see backlash happening: "The band that made Pet Sounds got cancelled just because some of the members performed at pro-hunting event" would for sure be added to the list of "Nowadays you can't even say Merry Christmas". I believe people have every right to protest against hunting for fun etc, but it should be done in a way that would not socially exclude those who did the wrongdoings, or the backlash would be immense and original goal of the protest would be at stake.

So, to sum it up: I agree that Mike should withdraw from pro-trophy hunting event, but I disagree that we should boycott The Beach Boys. Thus I had to refrain from signing the petition.

On the flip side: imagine if people would be attracted to trophy hunting because The Beach Boys seem to be cool with it (if they go through with this event)? THAT is why I don't think boycotting the band is a bad idea. We're cool with ignoring the boycott if we think that The Beach Boys actually have zero influence on culture, but how about we act as if they do have influence on some people? I literally couldn't care less if The Beach Boys, Brian, Al, Wondermints lose sales over this. As in: if this is the culture that BRI or The Beach Boys want to support then they need to understand the consequences of supporting such an absolutely stupid cause.

If Mike goes through with this concert and then was open to headlining more of these gigs then yes, I think that Brian, Carl's estate, and Al would absolutely be partial to blame in this. And I'm very outspoken of support for Brian's camp, but I can logically see why if Mike was attracting people to the "sport" of trophy hunting that Brian and Al would be to blame for allowing The Beach Boys name to continue to prop up such a heinous cause.

I'm not a hunter, and I've never hunted in my life.   I find the whole concept of "safari hunting" offensive, and I think its practitioners are likely pretty crappy people.

So I understand why some of you all are signing, and if that's what your conscience tells to you do, go for it.

But I'm not signing this petition.  Why?  Because I disagree with the petition's wording, and, as such, attaching my name thereto would be insincere.
(1) I haven't been to a Mike & Bruce show in decades, and I already had zero intention of attending such a show, so promising to "boycott" their act would be a phony threat on my part.
(2) I have no intention at all of boycotting the recorded oeuvre of The Beach Boys, regardless of whether Mike & Bruce sing "Fun, Fun, Fun" for this Safari Club on Wednesday or not.  If Brother Records Inc. releases a Sunflower box set or some other issue in which I'm interested, I'm not going to say, "Well, Mike & Bruce played a gig for the big-game-hunting industry, so forget it."  I'd be lying if I pretended that was my position.   Mike and Bruce and their associates playing gig, reprehensible as it may be, has nothing to do with the music that Brian and Al and Carl and Dennis recorded 50 years ago.  



 

Sorry if this sounds provocative or something, but are you (assuming you have signed) actually ready not to buy the music of The Beach Boys as the petition pledges? Say, would you refrain from buying the rumored Sunflower/Surf's Up box set, or any upcoming archival releases if Mike joined the trophy-hunting event and had not apologized about it by then?

I myself isn't, so that's partly the reason I didn't sign. (Perhaps you can say my fanboy-ism toward music is to blame, though, as I have bought Phil Spector's music even if he had committed murder and was in jail)

I understand trophy hunting is a terrible thing to do, and their performance at the event should be criticized as it promotes trophy hunting and possibly make more people to do it. My point is, I think protesting against performing at the event/publicly criticize them for attendance is enough. You can even boycott them on your belief. However, I just don't think campaign for boycotting The Beach Boys would work, if to promote people's awareness against trophy hunting is your priority, and not to punish and exclude The Beach Boys from society. I think it would be unproportional to what they are going to do.

Fair enough.

For shame.

(https://i.imgur.com/A5iZDGf.jpg)

$$$$$$$$$$$

Can anyone explain how the licensing thing works with stuff like this?  Playing at a political event is not the same thing as playing at the county fair or the concert hall down the street.  When you play something like this, it says something about your “brand”.  Do Brian, Al and Carl’s estate get any say in decisions to play events like this?  I cannot imagine Al being cool with it.  To say that it will tarnish their reputation is a huge understatement.  And the average person doesn’t know the complexities of who’s in what variation of the band, they’re just going to hear that “the Beach Boys” are playing at this big-game hunting fest and it will tarnish everyone’s reputation.  

It's highly unlikely that Brian, Al, Justyn or Jonah could veto a gig even if they wanted to.   Mike has a license.  IIRC, his act has to use booking agencies from a BRI-approved list, but other than that, he likely has a free hand.  As evidenced by what happened at the end of 2012, Brian and Al don't even have the right to perform with the band

For me, this is a statement to the current management/leadership of The Beach Boys: “continue to support the killing of trophy animals and I’ll stop supporting you. Continue to drag the band name through the mud and I’ll stop supporting you.”

Of course the 60’s music has nothing to do with playing this gig. But from my perspective, if The Beach Boys play this gig then they are clearly supporting an immoral cause. If I buy their 60’s music I will be financially supporting them (and subsequently supporting trophy hunting). Put it this way: The Beach Boys are currently headlining an event that glorifies and supports the killing of living beings - not for the need of food but for their skins to be peeled off and their heads to be mounted on walls. If I continue to financially support this band if they continue to support this archaic “sport” then I am helping support this “sport” as well. Put it yet another way: if a more unknown band were headlining an event supporting the needless killing of animals no one would bat an eye at boycotting their music. But because it’s The Beach Boys suddenly we’re cool with financially supporting an entity that supports the needless killing of animals?

As for your point on Spector, I still listen to Phil Spector because 1) I get he is mentally ill, 2) he isn’t actively supporting the murder of human beings. He made a terrible decision and he is paying the price for it. Whereas if The Beach Boys play this gig they will be actively supporting the slaughter of exotic animals. That is something I will not financially support.

If Mike does play this gig and he goes all out Hall-of-Fame-night “you all need TM” on the crowd I will completely understand why they played and take back my words. Until then I just can’t justify financially supporting these guys if they willfully headline an event that supports trophy hunting.

If a good friend was ruining their life with an immoral activity, you wouldn’t financially support that friend. You’d still have nothing but love for them, but giving them cash would only support their wayward behavior.

I will always have nothing but love for The Beach Boys music. And I completely realize these guys haven’t been perfect people on their journey through life....none of us have. But at the moment I won’t financially support them because I don’t agree with where they currently and actively choose to perform. And if they continue to support this convention I will have to continue to put my money elsewhere.

Thanks for a well-thought out reply. I'm still not going to sign with pretty much the same reason as juggler stated above, but I understand and respect your decision.

Over 17,000 signatures now.

Last night the petition was closing in on the goal of 5,000 signatures.  As of waking up this morning there are 17,000 signatures.

That's a pretty significant number of fans showing negativity toward the Beach Boys. And the whole point being missed is that all of this backlash on The Beach Boys from the general public is due solely to Mike Love and his decision to play this gig. If the Beach Boys and their legacy/bottom lines are paying a price for this, blame Mike and *his* use of the name for this backlash.

22,000 now. In a span of minutes it went from 17,000 to 22,000.


Thanks, Wata. I see your and Juggler's point as well.

The whole thing sucks because I realize how many people this affects: Mark and Alan alone (working tirelessly on the Feel Flows set), the roadies trying to make a living, etc etc. It's not fair to any of those peoples to suddenly be part of such a controversy. This gig should never have been agreed to in the first place. This isn't the 1950s anymore. What blows my mind even more is that Mike wrote these lyrics:

"The flagship of death is an old whaling trawler
The people are rising over whale killing crawlers
You gotta holler more
Wait a minute can't you see, you gotta let 'em be"

Take your own advice, Mike. 22,000 people and counting...

In just over a half hour, the petition reached over 22,000 signatures, from 17,000.

If BRI doesn't see a problem here that needs to be addressed...maybe they truly are either powerless and beholden to whatever Mike chooses to do no matter how potentially damaging,  or it's simply useless.

Whatever, I just hate to see the music I love, and Brian and Al who have no skin in this game, getting dragged into Mike's bad decisions yet again which harm the legacy and brand.

Aaaaaaaand the posts on Mike’s Facebook page asking him not to play this show (including a short and polite one from Andrew Doe) seem to have been deleted. Nice.  Not only does he make a terrible decision but when longtime fans call him on it, they get silenced.

Oh well, they can keep deleting, I can keep posting.  I just want to make sure that as many people as possible know about this, and they can decide for themselves.

Imagine being the person who is tasked with/paid for deleting those posts. I hope they feel good about themselves and sleep well at night.

Don’t play this show....

Over 30,000 now. This is not going away.

As I've been saying for years, this is who these people are and this is what they do. The karma and irony of them deleting Doe's post is beyond entertaining. This is who you carried water for and defended for years...and the post gets deleted along with the other "haters".  Karma.

A cursory Facebook search will show many posts of outraged music fans sharing the petition, and also articles mentioning the involvement of the band, with photos from the 1966 Pet Sounds photoshoot. Yes, that's historically inaccurate, but a brand is a brand.

Once again, because it's the brand name, the other bandmembers get associated with this garbage. And it's extra ironic, considering their best-known album has them posing with a bunch of wild animals in a zoo. And accurate or not, that association will continue because it's just too ironic and to iconic to not lump that together.

If Bill Cosby's most famous album LP cover image was him posing at a pharmacy smiling gleefully beside a giant poster for sleeping pills, you can bet articles would use that image, and drive it into the ground as well. Nothing like a headline that writes itself.  So yes, get ready for Pet Sounds/killing animals clickbait articles. They've already started. F*ck.

And this isn't going away. Who knows how much baggage this could lump the brand name with. I have little doubt this could potentially jeopardize the future archival releases, or at least minimize their scope and promotion. I am truly disgusted.

I share your disgust and it also makes me sad as hell (but your Bill Cosby analogy did give me a much-needed laugh).  What would be great is if Al and Brian tweeted something that would distance themselves from this gig.  Not only do they not deserve to be tarnished by this, but it would be a good slap in the face to Mike. 

All very confusing given the bands comments over the years about taking care of the environment. Anyone remember the SIP album cover with whales, turtles, fish etc? I wonder what members of The Surfrider Foundation think. All seperate entities and values to Mike and Bruce but whether they like it or not, there is a common link.

A little surprised this hasn’t made the main stream media as yet. An impeachment trial and a Super Bowl will do that I guess.

Maybe they couldn’t turn down sharing the bill with Donald Trump Jr?  ???

SB! I hope you're well! I haven't seen you around here in a while.


Agreed. Also, has Mike's management ever heard of The Streisand Effect (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect)?? Deleting people's rational thoughts about this from social media is about the worst thing they can do at this point.

In the last hour it's gone from 30,000 to nearly 40,000 signatures.

:lol Of all the people . Last check must’ve bounced.

Just hit the 40,000 mark! Momentum continues; hope management is exerting pressure to withdraw from this farce of a "corporate gig".

Hi.  What an abomination of a cause to play for.  I just signed and contributed.  Despicable gig in my opinion. Glad to see so many signatures.  Ray

Hey there Ray. Hope you're well. I don't know if you currently have Brian's ear, but perhaps you could encourage him and Al to distance themselves from this garbage?

Hi Jim.  Yes still friends with Brian and I think he will say something.  Ray

Nice to hear from Mr. Lawlor!

Signed , shared, and will be donating

Thanks SB. I have been spot reading the board but the work assignment I was on was insanely time consuming and I couldn’t dig into anything more than work !

Looks like the signatures are increasingly rapidly

In this case, Go Brian!

Nice to have you back Ray.

Thanks. Good to be back!

Welcome back 😎

Great to see you're back, Ray, and hope all is well!! Please give our best to Brian and Family!!

Absolutely!! And great to hear from you, SB!

Ray, so very glad to see you posting. Thank you so much for jumping in and lending your support. You may well be the one that turns the tide. Signatures now up to over 43,000.

how utterly disappointing.

I boycotted Mike's Beach Boys many years ago due to his nasty treatment and hurtful statements about Brian and the other Beach Boys.

he's one of the biggest fakes in show biz... it's no wonder he supports the current administration with such fervor.


the petition should easily reach 50,000 signatures by midnight, but will Mike care? I highly doubt it.

Signed. Thanks for bringing this to our attention.

How can Mike reconcile playing a gig like this and practicing Transcendental Meditation?

Pretty terrible look, rubbing elbows with Donny Jr.

Fucking embarassing, to be fair.

Over 51000 now

Over 51,000 and still going. Again the whole thing is beyond sad, when we are seeing over 51,000 people sign a petition directly related to the Beach Boys. But I'm repeating myself.

I hope some clarification is given so these 51,000 plus people signing this are aware The Beach Boys are *not* collectively doing this and especially not endorsing this, but rather this is Mike Love's touring group.

What a crazy and sad unfolding of events, wouldn't you agree? There is so much to say regarding all of this, but it must be noted that this many people - most of them *not* diehard fans but rather more casual fans and observers - have signed a petition which paints "The Beach Boys" as an entity in a negative light. How sad that is, considering for what I'm guessing is a majority of people (both on that petition roster and in general) they are unaware of any separation between the Beach Boys who released Good Vibrations in 1966 and the Mike Love-led Beach Boys who are subject of this petition due to the decision to play this show in Reno. The seeds planted years ago have started to bear fruit...or in other words, actions have consequences.

Rambling thoughts on all this.

In just under 48 hours, this petition jumped from just breaking 4,000 signatures on Saturday afternoon to having over 56,000 signatures on Monday afternoon. No matter what the opinions are of the topic at hand, is there not at least a recognition from BRI, from Mike Love's team, or in general within the umbrella of corporate structures that envelop the brand "The Beach Boys" that something is seriously wrong here?

In recent times we've seen discussions about a new box set coming out, and also in previous talks some who were critical of streaming such material versus buying it outright. Let's be real, then: This board gets probably a few hundred unique visits each day, and the totals on other social media are pretty close to those totals, some far less and some a little more depending on the platforms. The criticisms of 'streaming' versus purchasing these sets involved a few hundred fans...

...while this petition has 56,000 on board so far. Consider the damage done to future sales and revenue on just a percentage of those signing this petition versus the numbers of fans involved in buying or streaming legacy box sets. Where's the outrage, then, when real numbers are posted showing people who will not support or buy "The Beach Boys" brand due to the decision by one of the BRI board members to play a corporate gig using the brand name (no matter what that gig is...when over 50,000 people are publicly against it, there is a problem for a brand identity and product) ? Imagine if 300 fans said "we're not going to buy so-and-so release because of X and Y reasons", and here are 50,000 mostly average people signing this against The Beach Boys *overall*...not just the touring band, but the entire entity and legacy of The Beach Boys.

Where is the outrage? Some voices fell silent, others spoke up. Not surprising - That's everyone's choice. But again, it is right in our faces that something - *anything* - which garners that much negativity against The Beach Boys and their legacy should be considered a major problem to address and correct where possible.

Have we seen anything of the sort officially as of Monday afternoon, EST? No.

Instead, I've heard some have taken to "researching" and trying to critique and impugn the motives and motivation of the person who started the petition...rather than addressing the issues at hand.

How pathetic. How seriously pathetic, but sadly not unexpected. Because, again, this is who they are and this is what they do. When an issue gets hot, divert and obfuscate as much as possible, and turn the focus on trying to rip holes in the people who are raising the issue.

It's classic dirty political hardball 101, applied yet again to the world of The Beach Boys. Fortunately very few are listening now. But still, the same old tactics are alive and well. When it gets too hot, attack the messenger instead of addressing the issue. Keep it classy, right?

I just hope the beauty and healing quality of the music made by this amazing band The Beach Boys doesn't get tarnished any more by decisions such as the one subject of this petition. I hope the true fans of this band will not feel ashamed to promote the music and share their love of the band due to the politics of something like this. And I hope the notion of this many people jumping online in 48 hours to voice opposition to something connected to "The Beach Boys" sounds enough of an alarm bell that *something* gets done or said or whatever...

Because it's truly sad to see.

https://twitter.com/BrianWilsonLive/status/1224412811276816385

There's been some official acknowledgement, though not from the touring BBs

Exactly, the petition goes too far.

Here is the tweet from Brian, for anyone who hasn't seen it: 

"It has been brought to my attention that on Wednesday February 5, The Beach Boys touring group licensed by Mike Love are headlining at the Safari Club International Convention in Reno, Nevada...This organization supports trophy hunting, which Both Al and I are emphatically opposed to. There’s nothing we can do personally to stop the show, so please join us in signing the petition at..." (then link to the petition). 

I am thrilled that he and Al spoke out.  This is exactly what needed to happen. 

All the more chance of this going viral now. Good for Brian and Al.
Shame on Mike.  

BW has spoken! :bw

I don't believe in petitions (waste of time imo) but this is pretty low even for Mike and the band. To support this kind of wild animal activity is horrific and the animal heads shot off my trophy hunters is bad too.

Pretty stunning (in a great way) that Brian (and Al) are directly speaking out against Mike playing this gig.

Not only are they standing on principle, but I'd also guess that some of the scorn being heaped on "The Beach Boys" due to this gig is making its way to Brian and Al. Good for them to clarify that they are not a part of this, and also that they oppose the organization.

Truly, Mike would probably see a swell of positive PR for canceling this gig at this point. This is his deal to blow.

I was actually surprised that Brian so clearly spoke out against this Beach Boys gig and in favor of the petition. Good for him. He's a good man.

Al posted the statement and link on his Facebook too.   :) :) :) :) :)

If it’s ok with Brian and Al, it’s ok with me.
Sure, the person who set it up has gone OTT, but let’s use some common sense as far as spending on your Beach Boys products and related touring go.

Oh...and the MSM? We are off and racing.

https://pitchfork.com/news/brian-wilson-opposes-mike-loves-beach-boys-show-at-trophy-hunting-convention/

I am not a Mike hater but damn. I cannot support this. I signed. Thanks Brian and Al.

--Ray, we hope that it won't take Mike going "all in" to get you to these pages--we want you here as often as possible!

--This is more evidence of the strange, tragic schism that has developed in the USA, and the often unseemly effects of commerce upon art that occur as a result.

I'd suggest that as a follow-up to this petition, a similar one should be generated to the touring band informing them that as a consequence of playing this gig, the undersigned will be boycotting any and all touring band shows for the balance of 20/20. The only place to hit Mike where he'll pay attention is in his wallet...

Brian did say on twitter that "There is nothing [he and Al] can do to personally stop the show." So...I guess their vote isn't enough to put a stop to a show.
Amazing how "environmentalist" Mike is such a Trump supporter.

As far as we can tell, there are few if any criteria (that are actually enforced) concerning Mike using the name with the license. He pays to use the name. He can do anything he wants as far as booking live concerts.

I'm not sure if there are criteria that have gone unenforced, of if there simply are few or none. I'm not sure if I'd be stunned or not surprised at all that nobody at BRI or anybody representing non-Mike parties never wrote *anything* into the license as far as what type of events can be booked.

In a theoretical band name licensing setup, shouldn't the trademark owners guard for extreme cases. What if the licensee starts playing KKK fundraisers?

After the near-miss of the 2017 inauguration debacle, one wishes BRI shareholders would have written *something* in as an addendum to the license to guard from this type of thing happening again. Allow BRI shareholders to browse the bookings, or something. The vast majority of Mike's gigs are regular gigs, or run of the mill (e.g. Toyota, or whatever) corporate gigs, or private gigs for gazillionaires.

This current case is extreme, and I'd actually be quite interested to find out how this booking came about in the first place, and if Mike and company were fully aware of the nature of this organization.

But again, this is easy-peasy. Cancel the gig. This doesn't require Mike to be buddies with Melinda, or require Mike to let Al pick the songs, or require autotune to be attached to his mic. Nobody is canceling his license. He could cancel the gig, and everybody would come out looking better.

It's difficult to predict what will happen. Mike basically said "f-you" to everyone and played Sun City in 1981. But social media didn't exist, and nobody cared about the Beach Boys in 1981 even in the rock press. So it's different now.

This could *SO* be spun into positive PR for everybody.

The story has begun to go viral, thanks to Brian's message.

https://www.stereogum.com/2072343/beach-boys-brian-wilson-mike-love-trophy-hunting-convention/news/

https://pitchfork.com/news/brian-wilson-opposes-mike-loves-beach-boys-show-at-trophy-hunting-convention/

See about mid-interview. Puzzling.

(https://image.isu.pub/130902013422-424716d5e36740dedf1dc9d934fa58ce/jpg/page_35.jpg)

Yes, but what Beach Boys fans never knew about those animals on the Pet Sounds cover is that Mike and Bruce shot them later that day.

Some would argue that putting those beautiful creatures on the cover of SIP is worse than actually killing, hunting, slaughtering and eating them.

Now over 60K signatures...

Beach Boys fans of widely varying political and personal ideologies are pretty well united on this one. It's pretty stunning.

Except for one person elsewhere online, former poster here, who is essentially arguing that the call for cancellation is politically motivated and, hey, it's not like they're teaching kids to trophy hunt at the event!  :lol

I wonder who it could be since AGD couldn’t even defend it... ;)

Oh yeah. Apparently this person's problem is the "bullying, defamation and the attempt to restrain where entertainers can perform."

So it's now considered bullying for standing up for defenseless animals being shot for prizes. This person also said they hope the organizer of this petition gets sued "into oblivion" - firstly Mike sued his own family member over a dinky freebie CD so yeah I'm sure his ambulance chaser is already neck deep into the litigation process. Second, it's hilarious that the person who most staunchly defends Mike (to the point of trying to justify this silly convention by bringing CHILDREN into the argument) leaps straight to lawsuit talk...no wonder they align with Mike so well.

Where are these comments?

I'll PM you, I'd rather not link the actual place to this board. I'm so glad you're posting again SB!

But really, isn't being sued by Mike kind of like a badge of honour? 

True. Plus in the process you get to figure out what fake witness they'll use to spark the lawsuit (2005 lawsuit, anyone?). So it's a win-win!

The Lovester is shameless.

Shameless may be the nicest thing one can say about this. Is it for the money, or does he support the trophy hunting?

Or both?

LA Times now. This train is picking up speed.

https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/music/story/2020-02-03/brian-wilson-beach-boys-donald-trump-jr-hunting

Good work passing on the message Ray.

 Thanks Don. Appreciate it. I’ve been reading but not posting anything. This was a good reason to start again !

I’m actually not Don, but thanks again.

Article says the petition is addressed to BB manager Elliott Lott--is that still the case? Does Jerry Schilling just manage BRI and Lott still manages "the Beach Boys", whatever that means?

No, Elliott Lott has retired. Jerry Schilling is the manager.

Honestly, I don't see the point in this. If Mike drops out of the show now, he'll be even more of a laughing stock than he is already. If he were to do a televised news conference saying he planned to use the gig for a demonstration against animal cruelty, nobody would believe him, and he'd be even more of a laughing stock than he is already. The Mike Love sh*t Show never ends.

According to the LA Times, there has been an official comment from Team Love, which is "no comment". That might say more than simply ignoring the LA Times' question altogether. They responded to say that. Was it a delay tactic? I wonder. I still think there's time for him to pull out. But yes, he'll rightfully look like a putz either way.

Between the damage control meetings that are almost certainly happening behind the scenes, and the directive of the Facebook lackey to delete all comments (even polite ones, apparently?) about this show, Mike's camp most definitely is having a busy day trying to figure out how to handle this, even if it winds up happening anyway.

I know Mike has previously pulled out of at least one gig in the past before, due to public outrage. So it's not like it's never ever happened. But if he has his tongue up the butts of the Trump family for whatever reason(s), maybe their connection to this event and his perhaps wanting to avoid offending those thin-skinned, amoral schmucks might be a reason for the silence from Team Love at the moment. Shrug. It might be more important for him to kiss the asses of the president's family than just about anything else. That would not surprise me.

If they go through with the show, I sure can't wait to hear Mike respond to interviewers who will most certainly ask him about it in the future. Someone, if not him, then someone in his camp, is going to have to give some response at some point. It's either that, or even merely asking about this show is going to be on the list of interviewer "can't ask" types of questions. And yeah, maybe that'll be what he does.

If the FB comment deleter person is working hourly, Mike might have to get ready for paying some overtime fees. People are mightily pissed, even his most ardent defenders. In fact, this might be the single most uniting BBs event - even more so than C50 - in getting more across-the-isle fans on the same page, than any other in decades. Never thought I'd see the day. And for a thing like this. So awful and sad.

I mean they already played one of the inauguration parties for Donald Trump, so I don't quite get the surprise here. You can't really go lower than that in my opinion, just hit the bottom again and again.

Thing is, this should cut a little deeper for the Mike and Bruce Show than a simple "politics of the moment" consideration... Conservation and environmental concerns have been a part of the "branding" of this band since at least the 70s. It hasn't always jived with other political stances that the Love contingent has taken, and it appears that this dichotomy is finally being put to the test in a very public way. I guess we'll get a better sense of what these guys' real priorities are very soon.

While I am totally against trophy hunting I'm not signing that petition

If Mike love wants to play that event, that is totally his right.

Oh he'll just blame the Wilson's hard drug use (which is his go-to response when questioned about his own life).

If Mike Love did the gig under his own name I would have ZERO problem with it...Well, I would still think he's hypocritical but I wouldn't make this big a fuss about it. The problem is he is basically using The Beach Boys name to endorse this disgusting "sport".

If he wants to drag his own name through the mud, you're right that is totally his right. But instead he is dragging 50 years of amazing music and history through a cesspool.

Brian Wilson signed this petition which is basically him disowning his own music! That says a lot right there. I'm glad to stand with Brian and Al on this one.

Maybe the logic is that killing more safari animals might lead to killing more horses, and horses are (were?) used to produce glue, and sniffing glue is akin to doing hard drugs, so playing the gig is a good thing, and ultimately all part of Mike's noble anti-drug WILSONS DID DRUGS AND I DIDN'T crusade.

:lol

My bad ! Sorry I thought I was replying to Don Malcolm !

Something seems slightly fishy about this, I highly doubt Brian was even aware of this concert before this was brought up to him.  Further I would also be willing to bet large sums it definitely was not Brian himself who posted this to his social media.  My own personal opinion and speculation is this has Melinda's handwriting all over it.  Again no proof but just my opinion, probably she was a away to stick a dagger to Mike, using Brian's name.  If Brian and Alan are so against this show happening, I would challenge them to not accept their cut of the 10 or 15 percent commission that Mike will end up paying to BRI for this show.  By my math Al and Brian combined stand to make 2,500 to 3,750 together just for this show.  

How is this fishy? It was a private gig and I highly doubt Brian spends his nights and days pouring over The Beach Boys concert schedule. So this isn't some Maltese Falcon mystery why Brian became aware of the concert when he was told about it - normally the way people become aware of information is when they are told about that information.


When he did his Q&A years back someone was typing the posts for him so he wouldn't have to bother with using a computer...this was all seen on video taken of the event. So bet your money away but you're not really making some shocking claim here.


Brian has said publicly that he thinks Mike is daunting to be around, Brian has also been sued by Mike for the dumbest reasons so I don't think Brian needs any help in disliking the guy. And yes, they are a married couple and business partners - usually two people with those labels ya know, work together on things. So I'm sure they were both made aware and I'm sure they both agreed to a plan of action.

Your perspective makes Brian seem like some kind of weekend-at-bernie's vegetable - which he 100% is not. I am sure Ray Lawlor will respond about this topic with information that refutes your charge here.

Just because Melinda is probably opposing this show herself, that doesn't mean that both Brian and Al can't also be in opposition to it. It's not a mutually exclusive thing. I could easily see that they were not aware of this gig until recently either.

As you can see, the vast majority of people across the aisle think this is a very bad move, so there's really nothing fishy about statements from Brian's page. And Al's.

Whatever damage Mike does to his reputation is of his own doing.

Also, I wouldn't doubt that Melinda wants to stick it to Mike. And frankly I don't blame her. Look how much Mike has so sh*t talked her in the media for years, and now he is dragging the brand name into the mud - causing even members of his Hardcore groups of defenders to say something in opposition... people are threatening to not support the entire brand anymore, which includes their own livelihoods and royalties. She has every right to be livid about this.

Very good point.

 :lol

David Marks re-posted the LA Times report to his Facebook page, what looks like his first public Facebook post since September. And one of the guys who used to stir the sh*t here felt it necessary to chime in with the same "Brian didn't write that!" B.S. as we're seeing posted above.

Once you see the tactics, you can spot them miles away. So anyway, yeah, there's the issue at hand which is a petition against Mike's "Beach Boys" playing this gig now approaching 66,000 signatures when the original "goal" was 5,000, and there are people instead making the issue about whether Brian typed out the public reply on his own iPhone. Some things never change.

Brian didn't personally write his social media posts any more than Mike personally deleted all of the negative comments by himself either :lol i'll bet in the course of 30 minutes, Mike's Facebook intern deleted more comments than gigs M&B played in the last decade, if it's a numbers game. These guys are too old to deal with that stuff themselves. I'm sure in both cases, Brian gave the thumbs up to the statement, and Mike gave the thumbs up to the deleting.

My intended point was not to stir sh*t but to simply point out that its my opinion that it was probably some one other than Brian who used his social media accounts which would have far more followers than whoever it actually was that type the message.  Also if Brian and Al are so against The Beach Boys doing this show, why don't they donate their portions of the cut to the Sierra club or some other worthy conservation organization.  

That's an idea I can get behind. I think they should donate.

In any case, they should use any podium they have to complain loudly about this awful mark on the brand name that Mike is intent on inflicting upon it. Literally the only chance of stopping the gig would be to have it go viral and make Mike reconsider. That might not work but that would be the only possible thing that would make it happen.

Donating to another organization doesn't undo or mitigate the damage this does to the Beach Boys brand or reputation.

True, i agree completely... and also, then some people will say that Brian and Al are just doing that donation to stick it to Mike even more. There's no way they can win in this for people who have a narrative to push. All they can do is try to be on the right side of history here.

And it all is irrelevant when the standard way of issuing an official statement or press release through media channels of old or social media of today is most often to dictate such statements to staff members who actually do the physical posting...once the person issuing the statement says what he or she wants to say in the release. And beyond that, in a corporate environment outside the entertainment industry, the public statement from a CEO or company officer would also go through the legal department of said company for approval. So it's nothing new, and it's kind of silly to assume Brian or anyone else in his position is typing this on an iPhone and hitting "send" anymore than it is absurd to think Mike Love himself was monitoring and deleting comments from Facebook himself in real time over the last two days as CD mentioned.

I respect everyone here but I believe that if you eat meat and you are completely ok with the treatment of all the animals in this video below. You can't really call out Mike for being a hypocrite, for a lot us here are as well. That goes for me too, I eat meat and Ignore the pain of all these animals. Please watch and decide for yourself.

WATCH THIS:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ql8xkSYvwJs


Judge yourself first, don't just focus on the mistakes of others.

You're claiming that Brian isn't even in control of his own public statements. You didn't intend to stir sh*t but yet you spout out claims that aren't grounded in any factual evidence? You belittle Brian but yet claim you didn't come here to stir sh*t?

People who actually interact with Brian have actually publicly stated he is in complete control of his life...yet people with an agenda (yikes I used the A word!) have to constantly push his groundless narrative that Brian is a vegetable controlled by Melinda. It's getting old, its been disproven, move on.

I actually watched one of these videos about a decade ago and it drove me to become a vegetarian for a time. I lost a lot of weight in the process and came to realize just how important meat was to my diet. Btw, there are different places people get meat. Out here in the country there are options to buy directly from farmers, or to hunt your own meat in the mountains.

So please, stop trying to call every meat eater a hypocrite just because there are slaughterhouses that are sociopathic in the way they run the place. Those aren't the only places to get meat, and I'm sure many are not run like that.

I get that you're trying to defend Mike Love at all costs, and I will repost my original comment to you when you made this "hypocrisy" claim:

"Why would I support the end to eating all meat when for some people that is a means of survival? Yet there is absolutely no one in the world right now whose survival depends on the skinning/decapitating of an exotic animal that has been needlessly killed for the sport of it.

If the push to become a more civilized species depended on a complete lack of hypocrisy we would still be climbing trees. Fact is that every person alive is doing something that kills another living thing...even vegetarians. This doesn't mean that we have no right to attempt to stop something that is clearly wrong. Hunting/killing animals to merely survive (as some places in this world just don't have enough farmland to sustain that local population) is going to happen for the time-being. What doesn't need to happen is rich people getting airlifted to exotic parts of the world to needlessly hunt wildlife all so they can mount a taxidermied head to their wall. What doesn't need to happen is Mike Love using The Beach Boys music to promote this sociopathic hobby.

Someone is being paid right now to delete negative comments about this gig from The Beach Boys Facebook page. That alone should enrage any fan regardless of your stance on this issue. It is clear that the need for a quick buck is far more important than longtime fans of The Beach Boys being able to express their valid opinion. Not surprising considering just 15 years ago Mike's lawsuit at Brian and Co. completely lied about Brian in an attempt to gouge his pockets.

Elsewhere someone is defending the convention itself in an attempt to defend Mike. Here we are being called hypocrites. I know some of you have to defend Mike at all costs, but maybe look past that for two seconds and see that this is genuinely a wrong cause for The Beach Boys (of all bands) to support."

The issue is trophy hunting, not eating meat.

Right. It's kind of like serial killer narcissist sociopaths, like Ted Bundy, who take a trophy item of their victims to have and jerk off to a future date. To remind themselves of the "thrill of the kill" and feel oh so good about themselves. They are so powerful and cool and above all of those beings beneath them. There's very little difference in the mindset.

Monday night, Variety obtained a statement from Love, in response to the petition and Wilson’s support of it: “We look forward to a night of great music in Reno and, as always, support freedom of thought and expression as a fundamental tenet of our rights as Americans. Peace & Love, Mike Love.”

https://variety.com/2020/music/news/brian-wilson-beach-boys-boycott-hunting-convention-donald-trump-jr-1203491537/

Followed Mike’s advice to have a cool head and a warm heart, which compelled me to follow Brian’s advice to sign the petition.

Stop allowing them to license the name and continue to drag the legacy of the band through the mud.

It's a pity Mike doesn't extend that "freedom of thought and expression" to either the Beach Boys' Facebook page or his own social media pages, since they have had someone seemingly on-call to delete any negative comments fans are posting about the Reno event.

How the hell did a random petition make Varitey magazine?

News outlets usually report on stories that will get clicks or views - no one was carrying this story until this became a Brian vs Mike story (once Brian made his statement)...that feud gets clicks so thus it’s now being reported on.

Also nice to see that Mike’s lyrics on ‘Pacific Ocean Blues’ mean absolutely nothing. Shameful they’re still going on with this show.

THIS. The hypocrisy just keeps on snowballing. I hope someone in the media points this out.

I think Mike just won the 2020 narcissist musician award. Total phony. I hope he gets a trophy on his mantle.

I think he's doubling down just so he doesn't "buckle" to pressure so he can prove what a big man he is. Which is very much in line with the whole trophy hunting thing to begin with. What a dope, on the wrong side of history. What a guy.

@rab2591 Just because vegetarianism didn't work out for you doesn't mean it's not possible. There are so many successful vegans and vegetarians in great shape.

I said it before and I will say it again I respect you as well as everyone here. And I definitely understand where you guys are coming from, but just for a moment realize that we are not always right.

And the bigger picture is that a lot of us focus our time in pointing out the flaws of others, on this board its Mike Love, in politics its Donald Trump. And yet most of us ignore our own flaws. We hate people who we call haters? The word "Angry peace activist" comes to mind. Hate only begets hate.

Now Mike has found a way to put a giant blemish on Dennis's solo album as well. F*cking with his and Dennis's art 40 years after the fact. What a piece.

This would be the same Mike Love who didn't want to play Monterey Pop because Coke was one of the sponsors.

Mike (and Bruce) are hypocrites. What a sham. How dare they use the Beach Boys name to promote their own beliefs and greed without the consensus from the group...which apparently doesn't exist. Yeah, I will buy the box set or other future releases of the band because they were products made and performed by the original "band", but I will no longer support the Mike and Bruce touring farce and will encourage others not to as well.  Thank you Brian for speaking out about this cruel "sport". Who the hell shoots a leopard or a lion or any animal they won't eat for subsistence and feels good about it?  This behavior coming from a guy who didn't like the lyrics to "Hang on to Your Ego".... Mike, it is you that has always had the ego problem.

HOW can he have the nerve to talk about freedom of expression, when he’s had someone delete dozens of posts from his Facebook page?? And how does he have the nerve to sign a statement “peace and love” when this thing is about a trophy hunting convention?!  Does that sound like a “peace and love” kind of event?  It makes me want to scream.

Way to go, Mike, way to go.  Have fun performing your cousin’s songs at the event that he has publicly condemned, along with your other former band mates.  Dig your toes in and don’t listen, and don’t stop to think for a minute what it says about you.  Well done.  

Mike. Hope you are reading these. You make me sick.

So I shouldn’t protest the skinning and beheading of a wild protected animal because I am a flawed human being? I don’t get how this goes from trying to protect wildlife to we shouldn’t protest Mike because we are all flawed.

As I said before, if humans becoming a more civilized species depended on a lack of hypocrisy we’d still be living in the jungle. I know I am flawed, I am a hypocrite, but this doesn’t mean I can’t have sympathy for an elephant, a whale, or a leopard whose deaths in this case aren’t for survival but for taxidermied body parts and prizes. As for the “hate”, boycotting a band for supporting a sociopathic sport is about the most peaceful way to protest such an act.

This comment left me astounded.

I hope Mike realizes that, while he has right to participate in the event on the grounds of "freedom of thought and expression", people have every right to protest the participation and boycott his future activity. That is "freedom of thought and expression", too.

Now over here in Ireland the newspapers are reporting on it

 https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/entertainment/bad-vibrations-brian-wilson-disowns-beach-boys-performance-at-hunting-event-979622.html (https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/entertainment/bad-vibrations-brian-wilson-disowns-beach-boys-performance-at-hunting-event-979622.html)

I’m pescatarian.


The story really is making the rounds. LA Times did a story on it, and every time I go to google on my phone there’s the same story from a different outlet

Some reports are saying that Al has signed it too.

@rab2591 If you really feel that strongly about it my friend, and it sure sounds like you do. I hope after signing the petition you continue your crusade and make a difference. And I hope you take further action. And more power to you if that's what you do.

To the people that only sign a petition and then demonize Mike, and then go about their lives thinking they are better than others. Please be more aware of the bigger picture. I wish you all the best.

Brian Love is listed as the only team member on the Mike FB page so probably him that looks after it.

Not a fan of the 'twitter outrage mob' mentality that seems to be surrounding this. As someone put it on another forum, there is an air of "LA politics" surrounding the whole thing.

Hunting is legal. A great many hunters take pride in their use of the whole animal (or as much of it as possible), and the humanity of their methods. You might not like it, and I don't participate in it.  But change the law if you want people to stop. Or you can just buy a burger at your next BBs concert, I dunno.

It's national news:



https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/brian-wilson-wants-fans-boycott-beach-boys-over-show-hunting-n1129386


Time for another Baywatch episode? Where's David Hasselhof when you need him?

Mr. Positivity again. As much as I love Mike's contributions to the band's iconic 60s material, his singing, and his qualities as a frontman, this guy has had such a long run of tasteless decisions and it's good to see Brian and Alan not sitting this one out.

Now the lead story in The Guardian's culture section.
https://www.theguardian.com/music/2020/feb/04/brian-wilson-boycotts-beach-boys-hunting-convention-concert

Though "freedom of expression" is an important principle, it's also been used to justify a lot of really horrible actions and words. I suppose you can justify supporting just about anything with "it's my right to do that."  And it loses credibility as an argument when you're using it to justify your own action yet censoring others who disagree with you.

"that only sign a petition" - know what's funny? You post a PETA video, call most everyone here a hypocrite, and then blast people here for supposedly thinking they are better than others - which is exactly what you are doing. There is a blatantly obvious difference between using meat to live off of and plastering animal body parts to your wall, taking selfies with your kill for ego, and using your kill to win prizes.

You say "Killing is killing no matter what is done with the corpse." yet I would argue that using the corpse as a trophy and an item to promote more killing is worse than killing to live off of. Also I would vehemently oppose the idea that killing an elephant for sport (which SCI endorses) is the same thing as a Native American killing a deer (using every part of the animal in some way for survival).

Yes, I'm a hypocrite. I recycle and want to be a better steward of the environment yet I drive a fossil fuel powered car - this doesn't mean I should stop recycling. I oppose a form of killing that involves using parts of the corpse as a prize yet I still eat meat sometimes - this doesn't mean I shouldn't protest trophy hunting.

As for people demonizing Mike, he has spent years upon years vilifying Melinda in the media, publicly knocking Brian about his music, looks, and drug use. Yet during this same time he has promoted his religion of positivity. He's now defending his participation in this event by claiming "freedom of thought and expression" while simultaneously someone is deleting any comments having to do with this event from The Beach Boys Facebook page. He has written lyrics opposing the killing of wildlife yet he is playing a gig at one of the largest supporters of the killing of wildlife:

Mike is demonizing himself. He doesn't need anyone's help on the Smiley Smile forum.


I don't see this as an either-or situation. Mike using The Beach Boys name to play a gig at a convention that supports the killing of elephants/exotic animals should be protested...regardless of how else we see fit to stop trophy hunting.
_____

This thing just passed the 75,000 mark.

Just read on Brian's MB that signatures have hit 75,000.

They say that all publicity is good publicity - the publicity is probably doing Brian and Al a lot more good than Mike and Bruce.

Over 76,000 signatures now.

I just reposted Brian and Al's statement on Mike's FB page (under concert dates) and on The Beach Boys FB page. We will see how long they remain.

This is so dumb. Regardless of how one feels about the issue, and regardless of whether one feels the whole thing is getting blown out of proportion, this was actually a good PR moment handed to Mike on a silver platter, and he won't take it.

This is really strange that Mike is choosing this hill to die on. It makes me wonder what the deal is with booking this gig.

Yet another stupid, *100% AVOIDABLE* mess.

A great night of music! Reminds me of this:

(https://i.imgur.com/8s5aTJC.jpg)

I had kind of semi-forgotten that Mike canceled a Sea World gig back in 2014 under (very generally) similar circumstances:

https://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/beach-boys-benatar-cancel-busch-gardens-performances-in-seaworld-controversy/53134/

Wtf is up with this Safari gig?

And, as has been asked in the past, while I absolutely acknowledge the need for people in Mike's band to retain jobs and provide for themselves and family, I'm curious if there isn't one single person in Mike's band that is giving pause to doing this gig? Isn't Scott Totten also a staunch vegetarian too? I get it, Bruce would do a two-night run with Mike hitting Mordor followed by a gig over the lava moat at Darth Vader's castle, but surely someone in Mike's band has to feel gross doing this type of gig, right?

Mike makes a statement:

Monday night, Variety obtained a statement from Love, in response to the petition and Wilson’s support of it: “We look forward to a night of great music in Reno and, as always, support freedom of thought and expression as a fundamental tenet of our rights as Americans. Peace & Love, Mike Love.”

From Beach Boys Opinion Page on FB

Just guessing but I'd imagine refusal to play the gig might end up with you losing your job.

I think it's the Trump thing. Mike is such an ass kisser for people in power that he probably doesn't want to "offend" them by canceling. He'd rather have the president pat him on the back and say "good job, Mike! You showed them!"…

That is probably more meaningful to him than anything else. Because that's what narcissists do, they just crave crave crave power and adulation from other people in power. Also, Trump is an expert at digging up dirt on other people so that he can get people to do what he wants. Maybe he doesn't want to cross him. It's very weird.

Because yes, I even read a comment from David Beard that said "Mike doesn't support trophy hunting", so it does indeed beg the question, why is he choosing this hill to die on? Maybe he's digging in his heels just so that only he can be the one who makes the decision and not feel pressured by anyone else into doing anything. Even if he knows it's wrong. Although I frankly don't know if that narcissist knows right from wrong in his heart anymore. His staggering hypocrisy shows him to be truly warped on an ethical level. Laughably so.

And I want to just laugh at this and think about how funny it is that this guy is such a clueless, out of touch jerk, but then I think about the legacy and it just makes me want to cry.

Yes, hence my reference to realizing they need to retain their jobs. But I'm not 100% convinced he'd fire someone on the spot if they thoughtfully told him they were uncomfortable doing the gig. Or, perhaps they could post online saying they are obligated to play, but they oppose this organization.

I don't expect anything like that, I'm well aware of the realities of all of this. But I also never thought Brian and Al would publicly rebuke a Mike gig, so I was curious if anyone else might have some gumption in addressing this situation.

The problem with Mike is that it's never really about convictions. At least not anymore. Everything in what he does is about Mike, Mike's ego and hailing Mike as a good guy and / or a victim of the Wilsons, those druggies who stole his money and writing credits. TM, environmental protection, studying with Maharishi... it's all about praising Mike and singing about what a great, cool, peaceful guy he is. A song like "Brian's Back" is almost unlistenable to me, because it's not about Brian, it's about Mike's feelings and what a big-hearted sentimental sap he is.

So I can't really say that I'm surprised by this new "100% avoidable mess". Mike is not a man of convictions. He's an opportunist who'll just go where the money is. And I can understand that : he's an old guy and he doesn't really care anymore. The problem is that he craves acceptance by powerful people. It's rather pathetic, really. That's the only reason why he's dragging his former bandmates into this mess. When he does something like this, he just makes it impossible not to see him as an old fool, a hypocrit, someone who'd betray his ideals (and those of the Beach Boys) in a second. Invoking freedom of speech in this instance is really one of the most hypocritical things I've heard him say. And, of course, he'll never ever admit he's made a mistake. I almost pity him.

Every family has a cousin who's a hick, who's so full of himself and out of touch with the world that it becomes laughable. When that cousin becomes the spokesman for the family, trouble is inevitable.

I'm not sure what the idea was behind this show, but I guess Mike must have thought that nobody would notice.

I wonder what Bruce's opinion is on all this. Does he stand behind Mike and Mike's decisions in any circumstance? Has Bruce ever criticized Mike or shown his disagreement in the past?

In Mike's eyes, everyone in "his" band has always been and will always be replaceable, even Scott Totten who has just about single-handedly turned a state fair sideshow into a respectable touring act.

I wouldn't ever expect it to happen, but if Mike's entire band abruptly quit over this, it would be some major karma. I wonder if a touring band this famous has ever staged a walkout over a gig. I understand they have their own livelihoods and families, so it's extremely unlikely. And I have no idea what their thoughts are on the matter, but I can't imagine they collectively think this is a good thing. I'll bet that most of them are just biting their tongue.

Imagine an evening of playing a bunch of songs written by Brian- who emphatically does not want those songs to be played. And being expected to be "positive" and happy externally onstage. If there's anyone I feel bad for, it's pretty much anyone who has to go through with that.

While I applaud ESQ for not literally ignoring this story, which is I'm sure what anyone would prefer to be able to do, I think some folks who are known to be quite sympathetic to Mike are literally having an "unable to process data" moment here.

If Mike had a history of doing a plethora of gigs for various organizations including tons of organizations that we know he doesn't agree with, then maybe, MAYBE, I'd buy the argument that he's just doing a gig and it's all about free speech and he doesn't have to agree with the organization, etc. But that's of course not the case. Mike is clearly going out of his way to do this gig, now *defiantly* so.

His statement is a G-rated version of "F--k you, I'm doing the show." He couldn't even muster a rote "while I personally don't agree with trophy hunting, blah blah blah" type of statement.

In the past, going over other band political BS, it has often been posited that Mike must hate Melinda more than he likes being with Brian in the band. The same would appear to be true of this latest gig. He digs doing a Trump-friendly gig more than he abhors trophy hunting.

The only two unique factors about this gig are what the organization stands for, and the Trump keynote speaker connection. Anything else that would possibly appeal to Mike about this gig would be true of any number of other gigs. If he gets off on corporate/private gigs, he already does a bunch of those. If he really needs to feel like he's digging into conservative causes, he already has done fundraisers and other events of that nature. And so on.

Don't know of a band walking out on its leader in such scenarios. Obviously, full bands have pulled out of such gigs (as REO did on this one).

Individual members of bands have taken stands on occasion. When Bev Bevan joined Black Sabbath in the 80s during some downtime from ELO, he refused to do Black Sabbath gigs in South Africa, and he was canned and replaced.

Agree with everything you've said here. I love this band -- even Mike's current version of it -- and this is a depressing and awful situation on so many levels.

And as an aside, this is yet another situation where the presence of a strong band manager with an understanding of the damage to the larger brand would be extremely helpful.

The exact quote posted on Facebook is: "Hope this all gets sorted out because we know Mike Love does not support trophy hunting"

I'm going to be blunt here and say this in reply: ***If he doesn't support trophy hunting then why the f*ck is he playing this gig?***

Has logic flown out the window when it comes to either defending or supporting Mike Love? It really is that simple and logical. If Mike does not support or endorse trophy hunting, then he should not play this gig.

It is indeed an "unable to process data" moment with Mike and some of his supporters the way it seems, but it isn't the first time.

And it could be said if Mike Love doesn't support trophy hunting but wants to play this gig anyway for whatever reasons he has, why didn't he book it under his own name as he's done for other corporate gigs in the past instead of dragging the Beach Boys' name through the sh*t?

I'm really waiting for someone to photoshop the Summer In Paradise cover.


(http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_500/MI0001/754/MI0001754308.jpg)

Unfortunately, it may be that Mike is going down the rabbit hole of double/tripling/quadrupling down on his political views as a hand full of increasingly marginalized "celebrities" have. The defiant nature of his decision to ignore the vast tidal wave of anti-Beach Boys sentiment makes me thing he's headed towards becoming another James Woods or Chuck Woolery or something of that ilk. With little left to lose, and perhaps just possibly increasingly unwilling to temper their thoughts or compromise in increasingly advanced age, these types have just gone into full defiant, marginalized mode.

In the past, I've always found that at some point, Mike was able to moderate his willingness to get super overtly political. Not that we didn't all know what his general views were, but he at least tried to sometimes couch those views in something that was less injurious to the band's name/brand/legacy.

Not so apparently now.

The one difference with Mike compared to some washed up b-list celebrities is that the "Beach Boys" name is still a significant source of income in multiple ways.

BRI should think about how they want to safeguard that name/brand going forward.

Summer in Paradise was referenced on FB - I was so disgusted seeing Mike Love's face I deleted the post until the author explained his reasoning!

In the meantime, here's a photo of Mike with the guy who did the "Summer in Paradise" cover art. Maybe someone can track *that* guy down to offer a rebuke? 

(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p640x640/76902759_2416412291962120_723900476994617344_o.jpg?_nc_cat=108&_nc_ohc=7WFWTptAoGIAX9D8iZo&_nc_ht=scontent-lax3-1.xx&_nc_tp=6&oh=ff71e43b0908d239dcbf9f957cff47d6&oe=5ED7068C)

If mentioned elsewhere, sorry.

I just saw this topic on the search engine "Bing". It's currently on their home page. I immediately came here.

Wow, this story is getting some attention.

https://www.bing.com/?scope=web&mkt=en-US&FORM=IESR3N

This is the latest report from the Reno Gazette Journal, "home" paper for the site of the convention and concert:

https://www.rgj.com/story/news/2020/02/04/brian-wilson-beach-boys-boycott-sci-reno-2020-trump-jr/4650001002/ (https://www.rgj.com/story/news/2020/02/04/brian-wilson-beach-boys-boycott-sci-reno-2020-trump-jr/4650001002/)

Contained in the article is the response so far from Beach Boys management:

>>>
Jerry Schilling, who has worked on-and-off with the band for decades, said he knows about the petition but declined to comment on it.

"I don't want to get into any press discussion about this," said Schilling, a longtime music industry professional who worked with the band from the late 1960s to the late '80s and is referred to as a manager in recent press accounts.

He referred a reporter to Love's website. Love did not respond to an email sent through the site.
<<<

So there's that.  ::)

Now my own two cents...You have "The Beach Boys" - via Mike's touring group playing this show whether you agree with it or not - garnering more press of the negative variety than they have *in years*, and with a story picked up now by the national and international press, and the response is no comment?

All I can say is wow. If this isn't a "Houston, we have a problem" moment for the brand and corporate identity known as The Beach Boys via BRI thanks to Mike playing this gig, I don't know what would be.

I think it is embarrassing for Brian Wilson and Al Jardine to stoop to this level and ask other fans to petition 'their' band.  Stupid and petty.  Just like the media to pounce on a topic and target it before moving on to the next.  Its a freaking paid concert.   ::)  Like some big change has occurred or something.  Why would Brian allow himself to get sucked into the liberal trolls of the world.   So next time I attend a Brian Wilson concert, I'm sure he'll stop me before entering and make me answer political questions to ensure that I am correctly aligned with his causes and beliefs.   The same boycotting liberals want the Christian cake baker to align with the homosexual ceremonial requests.  Whatever.

Wait, are we on Reddit now?  :lol

To be fair to AGD, he's clearly sincere on this issue and has been very forthright on his own site. I doubt he would go back into the Mike/Bruce fold after the stance he's taken here.

OTOH I'm amazed that anyone who's being paying attention for the last 40+ years would be surprised at Mike and Bruce being hypocrites.

While I appreciate otherwise arguably overly-sympathetic Mike defenders standing up and calling Mike and Bruce out on this gig, I somehow doubt many of them are going to boycott anything going forward, and I say this in a completely neutral fashion. I'm not judging whether they should or not, I just think most of those most sympathetic to Mike who are opposed to this gig will still be attending Mike gigs, and probably not lingering on this event once it has passed.

The difference is there were many discussions where people pointing out or even discussing the hypocrisy of the past were labeled "haters", "Mike bashers", "not a real fan", etc...and it was like a concerted effort to whitewash anything fans could be critical of toward Mike (and Bruce, and others...) from the conversations by putting the focus and criticism on the fans rather than the behavior. Like I said earlier, it's classic political hardball behavior 101, applied to the world of a rock band and their fans...if you have no defense for an action, turn the focus on and attack those pointing it out. We've seen already the guy who started this petition was "researched" to try to impugn what he was doing and why. As if that changes the actual event being discussed and people's objection to it.

In other words, as you said, it's not like there have not been numerous precedents and previous examples, but I think in this case (and perhaps others) it may be more of an unwillingness to accept that Mike could be behind something like this rather than an ignorance of the past 40+ years.

And it's still surprising yet pretty telling to see the "no comment" response from management.  ::)

I wonder if BRI was threatened by Mike’s lawyers already. Something seems off behind the scenes for Mike to have such power...

It would be harsh to expect AGD to do this given that his entire public profile is invested in the work. I would, however, hope that he might no longer give any space to any future concerts by Mike and Bruce's group. That ought to be a fairly obvious thing to boycott.

The question of what business/fiduciary duty the band members have to each other vis-a-vis the license/trademark/brand/reputation is an interesting one.

There are scenarios with other organizations where shareholders would try to (and/or would be able to) do something about this sort of thing.

As to whether Mike's lawyers could possibly be barking at Brian (or Al) or BRI, who knows. They'd have a tough time doing anything beyond sending a powerless angry letter. If they tried to argue that Brian is hurting the brand by supporting this call to cancel the show, Brian could just as easily contend Mike is hurting the brand by doing the gig in the first place.

I think Mike is operating on the basis of "it's my license and I can book any shows I want." Whether that's a realistic way to go about doing business is debatable, but it has seemed to work for him so far. However, Mike "it's all about free speech" Love certainly shouldn't have a problem with Brian and Al voicing their concern over the gig.

You'd think the rarity of Brian publicly calling out a Mike touring gig (which has more or less NEVER directly happened before) would maybe ring a bell with Mike that this is maybe a bigger deal than usual.

Ultimately, BRI is more a holding company than anything else, so in one sense it's not surprising everybody's kind of caught flat-footed; the band essentially is not active outside of archival releases and licensing the trademark. I'm not sure what Jerry Schilling's angle or attitude would be in handling (or not handling) this sort of thing. His quick quote in that Reno article certainly isn't the best look, that's for sure. But you have to remember, Mike's band/tour is not a BRI operation. BRI simply gives a license to Mike/Meleco. They have no control outside the hornet's nest that is trying to take the license away. One would hope Schilling could have brokered something here as far as Mike just canceling this one gig and doing a solid for his fellow shareholders. Nobody at this stage wants to just cut the revenue off and have everybody retire. It's about one gig, and I'm stunned Mike has gone out of his way to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory by not only not taking the simple step of canceling the gig, but actually defiantly going on with it.

 :whatever :shrug, WTF? In the meantime, can someone construct a plaque with Mike Love's head on it? I think it would, in this case, be appropriate. Looks like my description of him is holding more water than it was designed to do, but it's exhilarating to see Mike in the frying pan. Hopefully, this will be all that is needed to swiftly turn people away from this moron and what will be interesting is if he gets booed in future shows. Way past time to pull that license to save what's left of the legacy that this crumb could care less about.

My exact thoughts

Why are they not allowed to have their own beliefs? Just because they don’t align with your causes and beliefs?

Ignoring everything else, Brian('s PR people) have played a blinder here

There was always a risk this story blows up without him mentioning it, and then the headlines would be about the Beach Boys, and people less informed may think that includes Brian, etc.. But with Brian intervening, the headlines are about Brian being against it, and so isolating him from any backlash. It's a perfectly executed attempt to get ahead of the story.

But isn't the job of managing a brand, in this case a legacy brand with a 55+ year presence and identity above all the licenses and "confusion", dependent on protecting that brand?

In this case there is a specific event that even a basic scan of reactions from the public would show some serious issues that are in effect harming that brand identity. Again, no matter if one agrees or disagrees with the event itself or Mike's "right" to play whatever he chooses etc, it is still putting the image of The Beach Boys in a negative light that has now been reported internationally.

It makes you wonder if there is a manager per se, or if it's just a custodial position with no hands-on managing on issues like this. And it also raises the question if social media tagged as "The Beach Boys" like their Facebook page is truly a Beach Boys operation or if it is Mike Love's team running that too. Obviously comments were being monitored and deleted, and all signs point to Mike on that one. Yet Mike has his own social media too.

It just makes you wonder what the structures really are when The Beach Boys Facebook page seems to be working for Mike, and the management of the brand who has been taking some pretty bad PR hits in the press over this seems to have nothing to say, and no control over what to do about it.

Silly me, I thought BRI had 4 votes.

I'm just hoping th a this whole thing will miraculously turn into a "Ha! We fooled you!" moment, and all the surviving members will show up, and the " gig" will just be each member giving a speech about the evils of trophy hunting. Unlikely in the extreme(understatement of the century), but....

It would be hilarious if the stage lights went dark at showtime for the Beach Boys, and a single dim spotlight shines on a figure with his back turned...wearing a baseball cap, khakis, and a Robert Graham blue striped shirt...and then that figure rips off the cap and shirt to reveal his true identity. It's Ted Nugent. Then Ted and his band rip into "Wang Dang Sweet Poontang".

Of course that won't happen. But it makes you wonder why they didn't tap Nugent for this gig.

LOL.  That would be funny, but Brian and Al (I assume) are on a 7-night cruise Caribbean cruise (i.e., the Cayamo thing).

I agree with BeachBoysCovers.  Brian and Al (or their "people") played it as well as possible.  They disavowed the event, said they had nothing to do with it and oppose trophy hunting.  Hell, they even threw their support to the poorly worded petition that included language that Brian and Al can't possibly really be fully on board with (i.e., it's unbelievable to me that Brian and Al truly want fans to stop buying or streaming their music because of Mike's ill-chosen gig).

I just had to block a former co worker (I was his boss) who said some pretty crass things about Brian. The crazy part is he actually said that  Brian was an egomaniac by signing.


I blocked him because he was going off on another friend among other reasons but thought that was worth mentioning

That’d be the greatest thing ever

I think "The BBs" (over say, Nugent) were asked to play this gig, and agreed to it for one or more of the below several reasons:

- the organizers literally want to be able to make a pun about "Surfin' Safari" and tie it into their organization. Seriously.

- the organizers literally want the fame in the BBs brand name

- friendship with the Trumps

- possible favors between rich, powerful people, where Mike and/or Bruce expects to get something in return at a later date (remember, Bruce's son almost married Ginia Rinehart, daughter of one of the richest billionaires in the world - I'm sure purely for love and not for money - these are people who are trying to get their families set up for generations in the highest of elite rich circles, so who knows how much creepy rich person favor stuff between families might be being bartered behind the scenes, and backing out of a gig could be a sign of "weakness" and disrespect, so no boat-rocking is desired - would not surprise me at all)

I think it is NO accident that Mike is SO SO very hardcore unapologetic and willing to endure this much mainstream media hate, and major criticism by people who would normally not criticize him... doing this gig must mean something to him more than most. I can't just think it's about the money to be made from just this one gig. I think it must run deeper. I think there's something big picture happening here. The Trumps deal and barter with dirt/blackmail, and expect FULL loyalty without exception. Look at what has happened to anyone disloyal to the Trumps. Blacklisted by them.

And I also don't think Mike is some big trophy hunter. There's some untold stuff here, I'll just bet, that would gross us out even more if we knew the real reasons. Think about it, and it doesn't seem like such a farfetched stretch.  Gross as f*ck.

Just FYI - This Cayamo was a concert cruise gig booked in advance, and with a pretty cool lineup of musicians to boot: https://www.cayamo.com/ (https://www.cayamo.com/)  including Brian, Lake Street Dive, Jeff Tweedy, Mavis Staples, etc...

Just to dispute any attempts to suggest Brian was somehow made "unavailable" on a cruise out of convenience as all this blew up, he is in fact on the high seas as part of this concert cruise as we speak.

But of course, don't let that stop those who know better from sharing and spreading info that doesn't exist... ::)

And THIS is the garbage that gets tied in to The Beach Boys name

Lake Street Dive’s on the Bill? I think you just made Jay happy ! 😎

They are indeed! There are supposed to be opportunities for jam sessions between the acts on the bill, I'd love to see a guy like Tweedy or Lake Street Dive rip through some of Brian's tunes together and vice versa. Or Mavis Staples singing "Warmth Of The Sun", etc. One can dream LOL

They are legit  one of my favorite groups of all time. Man, an LSD and Brian/Am collaboration would be incredible.

So basically, if you see anyone suggesting Brian hopped on a cruise ship to get out of Dodge and avoid any follow-ups to recent events...just hit 'em with the facts, drop the mic, and resume normal life.

I'll tell you what, a cruise out of Miami sounds mighty nice right about now.  :)  :rock

“Let’s go cruisin now, everybody’s learnin how, let’s get the f*** out of Miami with meeeeee”

If it is truly reflective of their own beliefs/opinions, then, I totally agree.  Free country, free speech and more power to them.  I just think its stupid to join in on the public display of shaming against a music concert.  The petition frames the organization with an obvious weight to a specific agenda.   Is Mike replacing the backdrop video with hunters shooting the animals down?  Is Mike coming out with ivory horns and standing on a bear rug?  No, he's just going a generic paid concert.   I've had plenty of negative thoughts towards Mike Love, but can remember him playing the 4th of July in Harrisburg, PA for Democratic Governor Ed Rendell who claimed they were best friends for a long time.  I don't think Mike is always as conservative as some think...I think he just has friends in power and likes to maintain those friendships.

AGD has been blasting Mike apologists on the EH board.

Of this I can agree completely. It's all about some sick, twisted, narcissistic prioritization of slobbing on the knobs of powerful people. That's more important to Mike, than say, maintaining a stance on not killing animals and caring for the Earth that he took on so many songs, and has preached for decades. Now even Dennis' solo album is tainted too.

And dragging the brand down with it. And playing songs that his cousin wrote that his cousin doesn't want him playing. A true phony whose priorities are disgustingly out of whack. Find me a bigger phony in the music industry. I double dare anyone.

You are judged by the company you keep. And this is very dubious company, to say the least.

MUCH respect to AGD. Nobody should show blind allegiance to Mike in this time of a despicable turn of events. David Marks didn't show blind allegiance either, and he's clearly a true friend of Mike's. Much respect to David too.

The best thing that can happen is across-the-aisle factions getting together and uniting over a just cause. That it took such a cause to do that is tragic.

Nathan, I think the issue might be that your comment "Why would Brian allow himself to get sucked into the liberal trolls of the world?" both ignores the fact that Brian Wilson has an opinion of his own which he conveyed in the message, and that Brian (and Al) may have wanted to distance themselves from associating "The Beach Boys" of Mike Love's touring band playing this show with "The Beach Boys" that Brian and Al created and formed in Hawthorne. For many who chimed in on this issue, they may not realize there is such a separation, and if Brian and Al are not a part of Mike's touring group called The Beach Boys who are playing this gig, it's only fair for them to say we're not a part of this, and we don't support the beliefs of the group and members sponsoring this event...but we have no recourse.

You have to at least be fair in allowing Brian to share his opinion since it is a legacy and name he created, and also I think be a bit more accepting of the fact Brian has his own opinions and is not being sucked into any ideology or opinion against his own wishes.

This convention/entity approves the killing of elephants in Africa....the second most intelligent creature on the planet. Mike is playing a concert being paid with money made by the sale/support of these exotic animal body parts....thus, this isn't a "generic paid concert". If Mike wants to do this under his own name, totally fine...I would still disapprove but I wouldn't boycott concerts I don't go to and a solo discography I don't listen to anyways. But instead he is using The Beach Boys name - dragging down the reputation of the music and legacy.

When you're being paid with dirty money it's pretty low to hide behind a monicker when collecting the check.

At some point you have to stand up for what you actually believe in. Years ago Mike wrote lyrics specifically protesting the slaughter of innocent wildlife - so if there is outrage because of his involvement in this convention then it is partially due to the very conservation movement he has helped promote for decades.

Not sure if this has been pointed out, but the petition is now at 103,000+ signatures.

I have personally never seen such a unified front against Mike Love before. I wonder when the last time the fandom was in this much agreement with one another?

I've also never seen the ardent Mike Love apologists bend over backwards this much to defend the man. Apparently now the animals are causing traffic accidents so trophy hunters have to shoot them. Tell ya what, if you're driving through the African tundra and can't see a damn elephant crossing your path, you likely shouldn't be driving in the first place.

howdy all....can someone tell me what the reference to 'EH' stands for....I am curious to know what our old friend AGD  is saying about Mr. Mike's further drift down the hole of no return....

Endless Harmony Forum. It's the forum that Andrew Doe now moderates. Better take some Tylenol before you read some of those posts ;D

On the main page of MSN....
https://www.msn.com/en-us/music/news/brian-wilson-calls-on-fans-to-protest-the-beach-boys-upcoming-show/ar-BBZDExS?ocid=spartandhp

As I've mentioned, it's pretty telling that both boards are nearly unified in disdain for this thing. There's pretty much just the one person, a former poster/member here, who is determined to stretch as much as it takes to defend Mike and this organization. We're literally closing in on "well, the giraffe could have killed Mike Love's kids first, soooo....."

Outside of the two boards, on Twitter/Facebook, etc., it does seem there's an attempt to backlash the backlash so to speak, trying to shoehorn Brian and Al into some sort of tree-hugging hippy liberal category. Or something. I'm not sure the people attacking Brian on this know exactly what they're even trying to say. I think they're trying to say they support trophy hunting, and that they like Mike Love because Mike is conservative, but are trying to come up with every conceivable way to say that without actually saying it.

I'm telling ya, rab2591 - my idea of Mike using the killing of horses/stopping druggies from sniffing glue in a Wilsonlike manner may prove to not be all that farfetched from how people will bend themselves into pretzels to defend this guy  :lol

Then I guess they'd better lump Mike's loyal buddy David Marks into that too. Major straw grab to try and besmirch people who are outraged. It's simply these folks (Brian, Al, Dave, + most of the rest of the world) having a modicum of ethics and finally being pushed too far to just blindly go along with Mr. Phonytivity.

Pretty much, yeah

My main thing is the public needs to know it’s Mike Love NOT the “Beach Boys”. Not to beat a dead horse but the idea of the legacy being stained sickens me

It's over 100,000 now and it's on the front page of the BBC

Out of control now, Mike might just cancel.

Worst mistake that Brian and company ever made was letting Mike have the rights to the brand name.

Interestingly, while they seem to be scrubbing negative comments from Mike's Facebook page as they always have over the years, the critical comments on Mike's Twitter are being left intact.

Probably an oversight. I'll bet it won't be long before that is corrected.

It would be amazing to see a live video feed of comments on Mr. Fundamental Right to Free Speech's FB page being deleted as the page is refreshed.

Amen.

Ok, I've decided to sign it. This is picking up more steam.

No way in hell that this would happen if Carl were alive.

So true.  Mike represents just 25% of the voting shares of BRI.  The other 75% (Brian, Al, Justyn & Jonah) could have ended his schtick a long time ago if they wanted to.  But, I guess it boils down to, well, as they say in the mafia... "he's a good earner." 

For me, touring operation called "The Beach Boys" died with Carl Wilson in 1998.  Any remaining sense that the touring "Beach Boys" were the musical group that Brian founded in 1961 was gone.  The 50th anniversary tour was just a weird aberration. 

There's an element of truth to that, but also, it's not just that Mike makes money for them... it's the fact that it would be a LEGAL NIGHTMARE to try and change the status quo, and nobody wants that kind of stress approaching 80.

I think it's fair to say that in 1998 when they let the touring agreement happen, they didn't have an expectation that this 2020 crap would ever happen.

I imagine it even would have been a legal nightmare then in 1998 to deprive Mike of the license (and who knows how litigious he would have gotten in general, just look at his bogus 2005 lawsuit complete with fake victims - and that was Mike lashing out *without* his license hanging in the balance - imagine what bully Mike + bully lawyers would have done if Mike was legit threatened with losing the license?)... to try and do it now would be much harder, plus everyone is old and does not need the stress.

Plus, I actually think in 1998 that Brian and Carl's estate were also trying to just be big people and let Mike have the right to tour in an effort not to take away something that meant so much to him. I really think that was part of the initial decision. Not saying that profiting wasn't part of it too. Brian and Mike attended each others' mid 1990s weddings from some photos I've seen, so there was some attempt at going out of their way to not be dicks to each other back then. 

I really hope someone asks John Stamos his thoughts about it. Totally serious.

Maybe Bruce wearing his awful Big Dog brand t-shirts on Full House was a premonition.

By 1998, Brian, who by that time was working on a solo album and had had seemingly mixed to little motivation to be with the Beach Boys while Carl was still alive, certainly had little interesting in working with them in the immediate aftermath of Carl's death (and certainly wasn't interested in joining Mike's touring band).

For Brian, it was a choice of some extra revenue, or not. Same thing with Carl's estate.

Al was kind of left to fend for himself, and it's to his credit that, unlike some folks, Al didn't keep holding it against Brian that he (Al) was left out in the cold on those 2000s trademark lawsuits, and saw the benefit of getting over it and working with Brian as he did in 06/07 and again since 2012.

If you go back to some old articles I posted, there's one from 1999 or 2000 where Elliott Lott claims Mike only has a few years left of touring in him at that stage. The implication seemed to be, in my opinion, "There's only a few more years left for someone to generate money for BRI, so let Mike tour, and don't let anyone compete with him."

Now, it's easy to then say that Brian (and Carl's estate) have some responsibility in the current license state. That's very true. But a scenario that hasn't ever really been theorized is this: What if, in 1998/99, Brian and Carl's estate had joined with Al to just not license the name at all? Would Mike have just run away with his tail between his legs, or would an even *more epic* series of lawsuits have ensued between them all back then?

So I looked up those Twitter comments and thought "wow, I actually kinda feel bad for Mike. I really hope he pulls out of this because he is getting a ton of backlash."

Then I went to YouTube and watched some videos about trophy hunters - watching a beautiful mountain lion being shot out of a damn tree (it was chased up there by dogs) and tumbling down from the tree and down a hill was about the saddest thing I've seen in a while. It's one thing to read about it, it's another to see it.

33,000 elephants killed a year, most of them for their ivory.

Young lions are separated from their mothers, when the males are fully grown they are shot and killed for hunting fees.

Utterly disgusted and disgusted that Mike, with all his knowledge about animal conservation would want to involve The Beach Boys name with this atrocious "sport".

Do Brian and Al have any legitimate legal way to stop this? Even if they teamed up with Carl and Dennis's estates?

I theorize that Mike would have thrown a legal hissy fit and never, ever would have stopped suing everyone involved in order to get the license.  Truly I believe this. And he'd also be way, way more bitter, and incentivized to continually make everyone's lives as miserable as possible, and we'd have had a bunch more frivolous 2005-esque lawsuits (separate from trying to get the license).
 
The only time in the band's history I've ever seen Mike seemingly "run away with his tail between his legs" would be the very late '60s and early '70s, when he ceased being a "frontman" and just stepped back and let Carl and the others take the lead. Because he probably didn't have much of a leg to stand on at that point, so it was seemingly out of necessity. It seemed like Mike was just in the background, adding some solid backing vocals and occasional leads, and not the center of attention. And that was when the band was at its best. I always wondered if he was secretly stewing during this time. Honestly, maybe that diminished power for him was (along with the fasting) a contributing factor to why he was institutionalized briefly in 1970. Dude likes power so so much, it must have been a blow.

And then American Graffiti and Endless Summer happened, and the decay started. Give Mike more and more power, and the eventual endgame is Feb. 5, 2020.

Actually, maybe this is all indirectly George Lucas' fault. MikeClunkey.

No. Dennis's estate has no say. Carl's does, but they're unlikely to vote against Mike on much of anything (the sole known exception apparently being allowing the "Love & Mercy" movie score to be released). But even if they all banded together, I mean, this gig is *tomorrow*. No way to stop it.

I mean, BRI I guess could go try to get an emergency temporary court injunction. Dunno if they'd succeed. All it would mean is more lawyer bills, and escalating this thing even further. This whole thing is making what was previously a relatively peaceful "status quo" situation go off the rails.

What does a keynote speaker talk about at a Safari Club convention anyway?
Best way to shot a giraffe in the neck?
Do they have slide shows?

Aw, come on CD! You can't be serious! Who in the world gives a flying eff about what John Stamos thinks?? Maybe the best thing to come out of this horrible episode is that he doesn't agree with his butt buddy Mike and possibly will decline appearing with him. YIPPY!!! Other than that, who gives a rat's ass? Stamos has already helped Mike Love water down the legacy and now Mike is putting the icing on his cake and eating it too.

Oh boy, look what just got posted 5 hours ago on SCI's YouTube channel:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXSqyZhQ5Lg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXSqyZhQ5Lg)

"Join America's most radical pro hunting group, and trigger an anti-hunting extremist absolutely free."

Gee, I wonder what this was posted in response to?

Again, I keep going back to Mike's 'Pacific Ocean Blues' lyrics - according to this commercial by SCI Mike would be considered an "anti-hunting extremist" for asking people in that song to "holler" at the people slaughtering the animals. I love that SCI's response to this outcry is to call those opposed to them "extremists" and asking hunters to actively trigger these people. Mike, for the love of it, do you see who you're aligning yourself with here?

I want to know what Stamos will say, because he will be in an impossible position. He either has to actually say something against his buddy, or take a cowardly no comment stance.

Mike is going to find it's a very lonely road where he can find people who actually publicly stand up for him on this, especially celebrities. I think people who behave this way and salivate at the idea of murdering animals for fun should be isolated, and that seems to be exactly what's happening to him. Mike has already shown he won't do the right thing for the sake of doing the right thing. Maybe some of his friends deserting him will cause him to reconsider. Who knows. I just don't want the band to play that damn gig.

Personally I don't actually really care what Stamos thinks, but I'm sure that he thinks it's a disgusting thing for the band to play. I have little doubt of that.

The fact that you can earnestly type that with a straight face when the side opposing it is typically the same side supporting the killing of the the first most intelligent creature on the planet, humans.  Abortions of irresponsible behavior.  Geez...priorities...  To the poster before this one replying to me, I totally see your point...honestly.  But, what I thought was stupid was that Brian didn't just separate or distance himself from it....he encouraged others to hurt its reputation.

How about instead of generalizing everyone who isn't in favor of trophy hunting, realize that some of us, people LIKE ME are against abortion (especially what laws are being passed in my state right now). I also enjoy my second amendment right and shoot guns. And I say all of this knowing I'm probably offending a lot of posters right now...people whom I respect and some I consider friends. But I'm really getting tired of people like you trying to turn this into some political circus. This isn't about left vs right, this is right vs wrong.

Killing for FUN is f***ed up. That is the point here. Humanity is a complicated mess of ideas and cultures. It's not the black and white world that Fox News and CNN want everyone to think it is. People are hypocrites, people do illogical things, people can support one thing and support something seemingly opposite at the same time.

But what should be universally agreed upon is that killing for fun/ego/selfies/trophies is appallingly f***ed up, and that The Beach Boys (ya know, that band that spent years being a mouthpiece for environmental causes) of all bands are supporting this is wildly disgusting.

I wonder if Mike realises that if only one promoter for an upcoming concert cancels, then this small private Safari gig costs him money?

Also incredible that BRI never put in a clause requiring Mike to not damage the groups name by excepting this type of gig, and if he did, voting members could veto it.

It’s always about something else than the topic at hand with lovesters... ::)

Wow! Just f***!ng wow!

“Don is looking forward to his speech at the Safari Club convention and is proud to add Brian Wilson to the list of liberal Hollywood elites who he has successfully triggered,” Andy Surabian, a spokesman for Mr. Trump, said on Tuesday.


https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/04/us/brian-wilson-beach-boys.html

What a piece of sh!t.

Oh, man, what an egotistical ass-clown.  "He" didn't trigger anyone.  No one (or at least almost no one) would be crying foul if Mike's band were simply playing Jr's birthday party.  The objection here is to this Safari club that promotes trophy hunting.

So now Mike, if he continues with this event, is giving his stamp approval to the POS son of the POS president of the US mocking his cousin for standing up for animals not being murdered for fun.

POS indeed. Unf*ckingbelievable.

Oh how I hope Mike loses the license over this.    

I think a good amount of folks who have aligned themselves with Mike in the past are having a moment of self-reckoning right about now...

Then maybe these aholes should put their money where their mouth is...and boycott Mike’s performance at the SCI as well...especially since all of the music that will be performed there was written by that known “liberal Hollywood elite” Brian Wilson.

Mike sold out his own cousin for the Trumps. M&B should have the name taken away immediately....

I would not be at all surprised if there are some actual behind the scenes meetings or calls with lawyers at the moment, discussing that possibility right now.

Can Brian refuse to let his songs be played under songwriting ownership?

Probably a bit late now but I wonder if this could become a ‘Mike Love’ show? Same band but remove the brand name. Wouldn’t make a blind bit of difference to attendees at this stage.

Mike I bet wouldn't allow that, because it'd be a sign of weakness to his narcissistic ego, allowing the world to clearly see that The Beach Boys live band in 2020 is a fictitious thing, and really just the Mike Love Band. He'd probably fear that would weaken himself in some fashion so I don't see it happening unless he was forced to, which at this late time seems very unlikely.

And actually, it would make a difference to Don Jr, who is all intent about not backing down an inch to "liberal elites", and Mike with his tougue up their butts surely wouldn't want to appear weak, methinks. And Don Jr would probably use that as some sort of mocking thing to hang over the whole event. Bully that he is.

Frankly, at this point, Don's statement seems to be about sticking it to Brian Wilson as much as possible.

You want to talk about a power imbalance?  The son of the most powerful man in the world just publicly picked on/mocked a guy who was bullied - and literally has brain damage - from his bully psychiatrist, who was brought in to treat Brian's conditions resulting from his bully father.

There will never be another person in rock music hated as much as Mike. Salieri for all times.

Most any BBs fans with a conscience right now should be livid if they really think about this.

rab2591, I apologize for generalizing you and others who simply oppose this practice. I don't
 support trophy hunting either but I obviously dont have such strong feelings to boycott when I had the opinion that much of the boycott was political based.   

I wonder how that certain poster on the EH board will defend this....

Kudos to Brian, Al and their people for boldly speaking out on this issue! And to David Marks as well!

Trophy Hunting is a barbaric, disgusting and evil practice! Shooting a giraffe, elephant  or any animal (they are even killing endangered species) “for fun” is just sick!  The Stone Age didn’t end because we ran out of stones!

PS - Mike Love is getting pummeled in the comments of the Rolling Stone FB story

You want to talk about a power imbalance?  The son of the most powerful man in the world just publicly picked on/mocked a guy who was bullied - and literally has brain damage - from his bully psychiatrist, who was brought in to treat Brian's conditions resulting from his bully father.

There will never be another person in rock music hated as much as Mike. Salieri for all times.

Most any BBs fans with a conscience right now should be livid if they really think about this.
[/quote]


Like a broken record...the way you guys see reality under your own lens.   Mike/Beach Boys touring group/this stupid hunting organization/Trump Jr.  all of them going on about their own business doing this event.   Brian Wilson and Al Jardine independently choose to publicly BULLY THEM by publicly calling for people to boycott their concert.   Don Jr. has the audacity to respond and HE is the one who is bullying.   Geez.

Brian is bullying Don Jr for standing up for animals not being shot for fun? And for his band name that he helped build to not be dragged into the mud? That's rich.

Making fun of someone for "being triggered" is like the bully kid Nelson laughing at some kid with hurt feelings on a playground on The Simpsons. It's textbook bullying to laugh at, mock, and make fun of someone whose heart is hurting because of something. Let alone mocking as good a human being as Brian Wilson. Textbook Trump Jr, he learned well from his POS narcissist dad.

Brian respectfully shared (didn't start) a petition written in an adult manner, to prevent needless suffering and murder. Ridiculous to compare Brian/Al/David to Don Jr.

So David Marks is a bully too? You're ridiculous.

News flash: When Marty McFly punched Biff Tannen, Marty doesn't suddenly become the bully.  

I can't believe I could still be shocked by anything to come from that family, but I gasped when I read that. What a slimeball. Truly.

In like company with Mike.

Like a broken record...the way you guys see reality under your own lens.   Mike/Beach Boys touring group/this stupid hunting organization/Trump Jr.  all of them going on about their own business doing this event.   Brian Wilson and Al Jardine independently choose to publicly BULLY THEM by publicly calling for people to boycott their concert.   Don Jr. has the audacity to respond and HE is the one who is bullying.   Geez.
[/quote]



Calling for a boycott of organizations/events you don't believe in is not bullying. You think lunch counter protests of segregation were bullying? Bus boycotts? Taking a stand for what you believe in, to support the powerless against those in power, is not bullying.

If Mike has these friendships with powerful people, then play the show as Mike Love. The Beach Boys as a whole don't have those friendships (with the Trumps), but the other members are being taken along for the horrible ride. Mike is acting selfish here. No other way to put it. 

I don't have a problem with Mike Love being friends with the Trumps.  Heck, I don't even support the petition because I reject the petition's call to boycott the group's recordings.  I do have a problem with people going to Africa and elsewhere to shoot rare wild animals for fun.  It's laughable to peg Brian Wilson as the "liberal elite."  As far as I know, he's apolitical and actually has had nice things to say in the past about the Reagans and Bushes, and it wouldn't shock me if he voted for Trump if he voted at all. He's never been one to push political causes.  And frankly objecting to trophy hunting really isn't a political cause.  

Reminder that the right has co-opted the word “trigger” and “triggered” to mock and demean people who actually suffer from mental illness or are victims of abuse, something I also doubt Brian would not be okay with though I’m not sure he’s aware of that.

That’s f***ed up

Like a broken record...the way you guys see reality under your own lens.   Mike/Beach Boys touring group/this stupid hunting organization/Trump Jr.  all of them going on about their own business doing this event.   Brian Wilson and Al Jardine independently choose to publicly BULLY THEM by publicly calling for people to boycott their concert.   Don Jr. has the audacity to respond and HE is the one who is bullying.   Geez.
[/quote]

Whatever hatred shown towards Mike by the industry and fans, he largely brought it upon himself, by HIS actions.

Brian, above all, has every right to protest this absurd concert specifically because Mike CHOSE to link the Beach Boys name and legacy to it.  Brian's camp realizes that backing out of the concert (not likely at this point) would be a loss of revenue for he and Melinda as well, yet he still calls for the protest. He has a stake in the game. None of us do. So stop saying Brian is wrong or a bully for sticking up for what he believes is best for the band and catalog he is largely responsible for.

Does Bruce feel left out? I wonder.

“Don is looking forward to his speech at the Safari Club convention and is proud to add Brian Wilson to the list of liberal Hollywood elites who he has successfully triggered,” Andy Surabian, a spokesman for Mr. Trump, said on Tuesday.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/04/us/brian-wilson-beach-boys.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/04/us/brian-wilson-beach-boys.html)


This is a statement directed at Mr. Andy Surabian, spokesman for Mr. Trump, in reply to his comment above.

Get your facts straight, be honest in your reply and stick to the facts and issues at hand, or shut the f*** up. This is not about your boss.

Thank you.


So with that out of the way, a rundown of the facts is necessary.

First, these are the two messages posted to Brian Wilson's Twitter feed concerning the event:

#1
It has been brought to my attention that on Wednesday February 5, The Beach Boys touring group licensed by Mike Love are headlining at the Safari Club International Convention in Reno, Nevada...
2:22 PM · Feb 3, 2020

#2
This organization supports trophy hunting, which Both Al and I are emphatically opposed to. There’s nothing we can do personally to stop the show, so please join us in signing the petition at
Sign the Petition
Tell the Beach Boys to Say No to Trophy Hunting!
change.org
2:22 PM · Feb 3, 2020


For the benefit of Mr. Surabian's apparent inability to read in detail, or perhaps to counter his narcissism or belief that everything revolves around the boss who he is paid to speak for, let's spell it out:

Nowhere - let me repeat - NOWHERE was Trump Jr. mentioned in either message. The image of the Trump brothers holding a trophy after a hunt was attached to the change.org petition page that was linked in the message.

The opposition to the event concerned the Safari Club International group's association with and support of trophy hunting, along with the SCI group's showcasing of vendors who promote trophy hunting. The opposition directly concerned the band which Brian Wilson and Al Jardine formed and founded in Hawthorne, The Beach Boys, whose name is licensed by member Mike Love, who will be playing this event with no involvement from Brian or Al, or fellow original member David Marks.

The statement made clear that Brian and Al as original Beach Boys oppose trophy hunting.

It has nothing to do with Trump's appearance or speech at the event, and nothing to do with Trump at all. It concerns the name "The Beach Boys" and Brian's and Al's investment in the name and the legacy of that name, alongside the body of work created by The Beach Boys decades before Mike Love licensed the name to book and promote his live shows.

For the spokesman to suggest this was about Trump Jr. speaks volumes to either a blatant ignorance of what was actually said, and the issues at hand, or an absurd level of narcissism that suggests everything surrounding this event revolves around and hinges on Trump's appearance and speech.

It was and is about *The Beach Boys* as licensed by Mike Love performing at this event. This was not about "triggering" Don Trump Jr. It really is that simple.


Welcome to politics in the year 2020. Throw all logic and intelligence out the window, hire an inept spokesman to ignore the facts and fire away at anyone who dares to voice an opinion whether or not his boss was even part of the issue, and throw political mud instead of proofreading and checking the facts.

Brian and Al for the win. Now people can finally see who these others are, and what they do, and in some cases it will affect those who have launched defense after excuse after total absolution for years to defend similar behavior from the same crowd. Shame it had to come to this, in this fashion, but maybe something like this had to happen to wake us up.

Well, if they’re so offended by the elite liberalism of Brian Wilson (who once told an interviewer he planned to vote for John McCain instead of Barack Obama because McCain made him “feel safe”), then surely they don’t need to sully their ears by listening to his music.

I look forward to Mike playing a show full of songs he wrote solo or with composers other than Brian, and cover versions that weren’t arranged by his cousin. It’ll be what — 15 minutes long?

I sincerely hope so.

I don't have a Facebook account, but just talked with someone who does. They've been following the news stories and just reported seeing an ad on FB for SCI, which was promptly blocked and reported as offensive. Anyone else had this happen?

Okay, so Mike, SCI et al were just innocently “going about their business”, which happens to be exploiting impoverished African countries for the privilege of killing endangered animals for fun?  Because that is SCI’s business.  And apparently Mike’s business is now entertaining these people, for a hefty sum, I’m assuming. And now people are mad at them.  Yes, poor, poor Mike and oh those poor hunters.  They were just going about their business!  And now everyone is being so mean to them! Especially Brian Wilson, and we all know what a mean bossy bully he is! 

Oh wait.  Maybe Brian and Al were just going about their business, which appears to be a) being decent people and b) protecting the legacy of arguably the best pop band ever...a legacy that just maybe they don’t want to see trashed because of Mike’s monumental stupidity and greed.  (And Bruce too, while we’re at it.  I’ve been totally focused on Mike but screw that, Bruce is an adult and could take a stand against this if he had any scruples whatsoever...but no). 

Didn't Brian go to the Kennedy Center with Obama in attendance? That's an odd statement but in hindsight not surprising considering all the anti Obama stuff spewed before the election.

Not sure if the Obamas were in attendance, but BW's Kennedy Center honors were in 2008, the final year of the George W. Bush administration.

Why is it only Mike that gets the hate for this show? Bruce is part of it, too. Have any of the touring band members complained publicly about having to do the show? If they refuse to do it as "conscientious objectors", will Mike fire them?
I've defended Mike - and Bruce - many times in the recent past, but for this show, I wouldn't be offended if some wild animals showed up, i.e, armed bears.

The touring Beach Boys are Mike’s band.  Bruce is merely a performing member of said band, he’s pretty much a non-entity when it comes to these sort of decisions.  That said, he’s always been Mike’s guy.  Where Mike goes, Bruce follows.  That’s the way it’s been for decades.

Calling for a boycott of organizations/events you don't believe in is not bullying. You think lunch counter protests of segregation were bullying? Bus boycotts? Taking a stand for what you believe in, to support the powerless against those in power, is not bullying.
[/quote]

Nathan probably thinks MLK was a bully.

Gig preview video ;) : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlNcL_L5e_k

You can't delete others comments on Twitter. You can on Facebook.

I believe that Brian and Melinda met President Obama, when they became involved in the Campaign to Change Direction for Mental Illness.

Guitarfool, just want to say that that was one fantastic post. I think what is most sickening in all of this is that Mike Love is still going through with this. I don’t think I expected an official statement going after Brian Wilson from the Trumps, but in the wake of that, if Mike actually has any fiber of “peace and love” left in his body he would stand by his own family...at least a cousin who he says he loves.

Think about this: yesterday SCI releases a video asking hunters to “trigger” the “anti-hunting extremists” - soon after we get an official statement from THE PRESIDENT’S SON bragging about how he triggered Brian. So much peace and love, Mike. All because Brian would rather his music not be associated with the murder of endangered animals.  

As for Don, must be utterly sad to live a life where you’re proud to not only shoot a defenseless animal for the sociopathic fun of it, but to then you mock a legend of American music who has a heart of gold.

Unless Mike gets on stage and protests trophy hunting for 2 hours, I do not at all see how Mike can walk away from this without a seriously damaged reputation. Playing this gig was one horrible thing, but now playing this gig after the headlining speaker mocks Mike’s own cousin?

Beyond disgusted with this entire thing.

*I would also hope that if any of the band members had any respect for Brian and his music they would walk away from this one gig.

Calling for a boycott of organizations/events you don't believe in is not bullying. You think lunch counter protests of segregation were bullying? Bus boycotts? Taking a stand for what you believe in, to support the powerless against those in power, is not bullying.
[/quote]

Of course I don't think its bullying.  In no way is it bullying.  I'm just using the opposing sides terms and responding to the fact that people are having a fit about Don Jr. hitting back.  None of those involved ever mentioned Brian Wilson's name....at all.  Brian used his celebrity and publicly shamed them for the event set up.   Don Jr. hits back and now he's the evil person.  Does Brian plan to make up for the financial impact he may cause the families and children he may have hurt from the monetary loss his public boycott may cause them?  Is he even considering the children?  Children are more important than animals?   The stupidity. 

Cult of personality is strong with this event....

Exactly! I wonder if ESQ will amend their statement to say "Hope this all gets sorted out because we know Mike Love does not support trophy hunting...and we know he does not support people mocking his cousin."

If Mike opposed trophy hunting he wouldn't be playing a convention where killing animals for fun is glorified. If Mike supported his cousin in any way he wouldn't be playing a convention where the headlining speaker just mocked Brian.

As for logic being flung out the window - that's usually the case when people defend the guy. I am grateful that the usual Mike defenders are opposing this. I'm sure the one person left on the other forum still defending this gig will twist themselves into a pretzel trying to explain how Don Jr's comment was actually a statement of support for Brian's music.

The latest defense I heard was that because Mike's band isn't the "prestige float" that Brian's band is, they need the money from this gig. The Beach Boys played 130 gigs last year? Even if it were 100, does anyone seriously believe they are that financially unstable that they need to play this one gig to stay afloat? Give me a break. And as for the local roady crews depending on this gig for a paycheck, I highly doubt that SCI wouldn't have a backup plan for a local band to come in...I'm sure Ted Nugent would be glad to fly in for the gig. Regardless, when your gig is the convention that supports the "sport" of killing animals for fun, perhaps it's best to stay home that night anyways.

If your family's financial well-being depends on the market of endangered animal body parts then you need to find a new line of work.

And, Nathan, earlier you mentioned, more or less, that it's hypocritical that people who support abortion are also opposed to trophy hunting. So with that exact same logic it would then be hypocritical for one who opposed abortion to also support this event. If you personally think there is even a slight correlation between caring for animals and caring for babies/children, then it would be in your benefit to support both - regardless of what your "opposition" also believes.

Brian didn't "use his celebrity" to shame the event. Brian used his Facebook account to ask his fans to petition the band he created to not play a convention that supports the killing of endangered animals.

Funny thing is, with your logic you could also say that Mike Love used his celebrity to shame those who slaughtered endangered animals for his lyrics in 'Pacific Ocean Blues' - Mike literally asked people to "Holler more" against the industry that was slaughtering wildlife, yet I have never once heard anyone say that was Mike using his celebrity to shame others. You're the one shaming Brian for taking Mike's own advice!

Never thought I'd see the day when the thought "I wish the Beach Boys were more like REO Speedwagon" could enter my mind.

Do they need the money? no

But I'd imagine they have a policy of taking gigs from legally operating entities.

Not only that, but I'd imagine they like to have the ear of Republican America, and the connections that they currently enjoy (and have done since Reagan).

No. You can kill an entire thread so to speak, and I think there's a way to sort of "hide" some users from other users. But yeah, if they want to keep negative comments from Mike's Twitter page, they have to delete any original posts he made with negative responses, and then essentially not tweet again until negative commments blow over. And even then, that wouldn't stop others from "@-ing" him, or hashtagging him, etc.

All of which likely explains why Facebook seems to be his main social media platform of choice, with the other platforms just getting dupes from what he posts on Facebook.

Trump Jr. nonsensically pulling Brian Wilson's name into this indicates several things:

1. When someone (e.g. MIKE LOVE) chooses to embroil themselves in *any way* with that family and with that political ball of putrid waste, that sort of "statement" is the type of crap that's going to happen. Some BB fans less entrenched in daily awful politics in the post-2016 era may be shocked, but that's the sort of garbage that's getting tweeted every day by the person in the oval office, and Trump Jr. literally wrote a book about getting off on "triggering" people (ignoring how his father is the most easily triggered person of all time, literally to the point that you can raise is ire by talking about the size of his hands?).

2. Donald Trump Jr., despite the headlines clearly laying it out, likely has no idea who Brian Wilson is.

3. He presumably doesn't know that Brian and Mike were and kind of still are bandmates, and/or that they are fellow shareholders in a private corporation.

4. He presumably isn't aware Brian and Mike are family members, nor that Brian and Mike at least purport to love each other.

That Mike Love would do this gig in light of all that's happened, and defiantly so, and now would do so and not rebuke Trump Jr.'s insult regarding Brian Wilson, really, truly brings Mike's *SELF INFLICTED* villain status to a new level.

I think Mike truly is turning into James Woods. I truly wouldn't be surprised if, at some point in the near future, Mike will be on Twitter angrily ranting daily, trading back-pats with James Woods, Roseanne, Chuck Woolery, Kanye, and Jon Voight.

Those trying to parse Brian's "politics", it's not really worth trying to decipher it. Brian ranges from somewhat apolitical to relatively liberal.

Let's be clear: In the pre-2016 world, there was some room left to feel that one could do a government/presidential function without agreeing with the politics of that administration. I mean, I'd say Al Jardine is a pretty liberal guy in more recent decades, but he appeared with Mike at that Reagan thing in 2011. I think all of these guys tolerate and/or have respect for older era conservative figures like Reagan or Bush even if their politics don't align with those people, and certainly not with the Republican party of today.

But Brian (and/or his camp) don't actively embroil themselves with politics or political figures the way Mike Love has in the last few years. Passing along a petition against trophy hunting isn't "political" in the same way that Mike actively supporting Trump has been. Mike has made MULTIPLE public appearances with Donald Trump, has spoken of his admiration for the guy in interviews. Heck, remember for the inauguration how someone found a huge photo of the inauguration audience and actually zoomed in and found Mike and his wife? Make no mistake, that wasn't just Mike celebrating the inauguration regardless of who was being inaugurated (unless someone can track down evidence he attended in 2013 or 2009, etc.). That was Mike gleefully getting off on *his* guy, that awful guy, getting into office.

To recap, Mike has *chosen* to be pretty actively political, and has been *UNAPOLOGETIC* about that in recent years.

On the other hand, Brian probably rarely cares about that stuff nearly as much (I frankly wish Brian and Al would have more vociferously stood up back in early 2017 when that inauguration gig stuff was in the offing), and in this case presently I think simply made the pretty simple deduction that trophy hunting is awful and and he needed to say something lest the BEACH BOYS name be dragged further through the mud. Yes, Brian's statement did escalate things, and now EVERYBODY is getting dragged through the mud.

But Mike had about 87 chances to be the hero to put a stop to all of this. So next time he does an interview and laments he's painted as the "villain" in the story, remember that at this stage he is actively *seeking* out that very role, and seemingly gleefully so.

A few people have mentioned David Marks. Has he actually made any public statement about this? I haven't been able to track anything down.

Melinda Love from Facebook:

My friends, if I had a dollar for every time someone has said “Tell your dad________(fill in the blank)” I wouldn’t need to sell real estate or work as a flight attendant. 🤷🏼‍♀️

Some days it’s all beautiful. Some days, (like today), it’s just embarrassing. You probably know what I’m talking about. Just know I already know. Xo

I can't speak for Brian's political beliefs but I remember this, in which Brian participated, and which clearly takes an opinion on human disregard of other species.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ilN_ndi_BA&fbclid=IwAR2mkARD8AvckRzNEH0ub_R5_h3TS-seTJfZrGy1OicnM4lWnGsH5NTXt1g

To further recap, concerning Mike's gig, precisely ZERO people in the extended BB world have come out with any statement supporting doing this show.

We have had either silence/no comment, or active disagreement/rebuke from colleagues and *multiple family members* of Mike.

Even in the extended world of the more well-known fans/scholars, folks normally arguably overly-sympathetic to Mike are disgusted by this gig.

I think part of the head-scratching aspect of this is that not doing this gig requires ZERO EFFORT. If someone were asking Mike to give up all of his lifetime royalties for a cause, or asking him to donate his left leg to science or something, I'd understand hesitancy. But simply deciding not to kill animals for trophy hunting purposes, and even simply deciding not to play at a gig that supports it, requires so little effort. I guess Mike *might* have to eat some overhead costs for canceling one show, and even then contracts might minimize how much that's the case.

Does anyone else find it mildly ironic that Brian Wilson has probably done more good for America than Don Jr?

This type of cause is something varying combinations of band members have supported (or written about) over the years, and while anything can be framed as "political", that sort of stuff is usually kind of pretty basic charity/fundraising stuff for good causes that essentially nobody can really disagree with. Sort of like Mike singing about the environment in his songs. Nobody much disagrees with the theoretical idea that it would be nice to save the environment. So all that stuff is as non-controversial as something can get.

What's going on in recent years with Mike is different. He's actively seeking out being attached to inflammatory hot-button politics. And it's not as if there was zero precedent. The band (well, some members) did do political rallies/fundraisers in past years. They campaigned for Bush in 1980 (well, Mike, Bruce, Al, and Carl did), and at least Mike and possibly Bruce campaigned for Bush in 1988 (the oft-mentioned infamous "I'm pickin' up Bush Vibrations" chant at one rally).

Truly, it's pretty sad that when you look at pictures or footage of Mike hanging out with John Stamos, or Ronald Reagan, or Donald Trump, he looks *far more happy* and gleeful than he ever did on the C50 reunion tour standing alongside Al Jardine.

Banana and Louie did more good.

Yes, he's far more happy because he is hanging out with famous, powerful people, which feeds his narcissistic ego. It's all about that ego feeding. Always has been. Al is probably viewed a contrarian by not being a blind follower "yes man" of everything that Mike wants to do in order to get more adulation and BJs.

Well, on the reunion tour, I think Al may have asked at one point to add one song to the setlist. I mean, that's pretty out of line and uncalled for..... :lol

What you're either missing or ignoring, Nathan, is that none of Brian's statements mentioned Don Jr. at all, yet his acting spokesman Sarubian replied as if Brian was targeting Don Jr.

I tried to spell it out as clearly as I could in my last post specific to this and the Trump Jr. "statement", but I guess you didn't read it or chose to ignore it. Anyway, that's the fact of the matter. Brian never mentioned Trump Jr, yet Trump's hired flack Sarubian tried to make it all about Don Jr. as if Brian went after him, which he did not. Again, feel free to ignore the facts as you've been doing.

Classic political "war room" mentality and tactics. Deflect, distract, insult, obfuscate...and never, EVER address the actual topic at hand when there is no logical defense.

Speaking of which, there is some of that going on right here in this discussion. So Sarubian, who is literally a paid professional at doing this, has succeeded in shifting the discussion to Brian's politics rather than the actual issue of trophy hunting and the gig Mike is playing.

Interesting.

The bottom line on this recent statement from Trump Jr. is that in any normal scenario where Mike Love had any sense of dignity for himself and his family member/bandmate/fellow shareholder, and any sense of sticking up for them being attacked, he would have *at the very least* stepped in once Trump Jr. insulted Brian and:

1. Rebuked Trump Jr. both privately and publicly for the needlessly over the top attack.

2. Used it as an EVEN EASIER way to justify canceling this gig.

*At the very least*, this situation at this point should be one of those "Maybe I'm allowed to criticize my family members, but you're not" sort of situations.

Is this really the same guy that cried on TV in the early 90s reciting the lyrics to "Brian's Back", and teared up talking about the family before the CalSaga gig in 2012? Wtf happened?

Mike Love truly is starting to turn into James Woods. It really is veering into that territory. Probably the only thing preventing Mike from going on Trump-esque daily Twitter diatribes is that he's too busy touring.

I'm not trying to inflame the politics of this, but seeing those around Mike react to this gig, it's starting to remind me a little bit of the whole Roseanne thing *before* it blew up. Meaning, colleagues and business associates saw the rabbit hole Roseanne was heading down in her increasingly defiant, inflammatory attitude, but continually just tried to brush it off as "well, maybe she's crazy, but that's her own thing", and continued to work with her. And then it blew up in everyone's face.

I'm not saying Mike has reached Roseanne-Twitter levels of inflammatory language and statements and attitudes, but his *defiant* and *unapologetic* decision to play this gig starts to smell like that a little bit.

In one sense, I kind of hope Mike *doesn't* retire from touring, because I'd rather not see ten years of daily tweets about Hillary Clinton and pizza parlors.

I find it slightly amusing that apparently nobody has thought to whether or not those were the exact words junior said. I doubt donny even knows, or cares who Brian Wilson is.

What I see as the bottom line is that there have been attempts to deflect and distract from the actual issue(s) at hand, and the more we follow those detours the more successful the tactic becomes. We had a former member here who did that regularly, in almost every discussion where there was no valid response, suddenly the topic would veer off into the Constitution or some random social issue and the actual topic was left miles away in the dust. They're still at it apparently.

Trump Jr.'s spokesman is an expert at this tactic, and he succeeded in shifting the focus and discussion into political beliefs and onto Don Jr. rather than the issue of Brian and Al objecting to Mike Love playing this event as The Beach Boys.

Focus.

And remember, the issue is trophy hunting and The Beach Boys playing a show for an event and organization associated with trophy hunting. It's not about endorsing political candidates, it's not about who Brian voted for in 1996, it's not about the background and work history of the petition starter, it's not about the right to bear arms, and it's not about objections to political figures...it's about Mike playing this gig as The Beach Boys.

Dude wrote a book (or had one ghost written) called "Triggered." I don't think it really matters whether he wrote the words; it's the big Trump/conservative machine that's trying comically to go after Brian friggin' Wilson. If Engelbert Humperdinck were in the place of Brian in this scenario, then he would have been celebrating triggering "noted Hollywood latte-sipping elitist liberal Engelbert Humperdinck."

But yes, you're probably right that the vibe of this statement, which is that whomever wrote it has NO idea who Brian Wilson is, would tend to indicate some underling, some hack assistant publicist or something, wrote the statement.

Yes, it's about, in part, the BB name getting dragged through the mud, and while I'm sure Brian and Al and others are absolutely genuinely opposed to trophy hunting, I'd wager that Brian (and probably Al) were also responding to Mike's gig because they (Brian and Al) were probably getting nasty e-mails and other types of messages from outraged fans and spectators who had/have no idea that the band touring as "The Beach Boys" is not *THE* Beach Boys.

While this whole thing is a huge friggin' mess, Brian has at least succeeded in establishing that he and Al are *not* a party to playing this gig.

Thus the "only in Beach Boys Land" scenario of Brian and Al having to support a petition that, collaterally anyway, boycotts themselves.

More fodder for the next Rutles sequel.

I actually thought of that Mike crying moment yesterday, as I was processing this entire turn of events. I'm trying really hard to believe his crying was sincere, but I just don't have confidence in that anymore.  And it disgusts me to feel that way, but I do. Again, the narcissism wins out. It's also possible that Mike is a narcissist who also legit cries sometimes about his fractured relationships. I don't know anymore.  I don't doubt there's some complexity to the way his mind is wired, and that he could still have some goodness buried in there deep down, but it's really hard to see that now.

Dude hasn't given me any sort of confidence in his sincerity on a WIDE variety of topics (the "otter" lyric just being the most recent example), so his benefit of the doubt is shot, much like those animals will be.

I agree that Brian and Al separating themselves as original Beach Boys from Mike's "Beach Boys" who are playing this gig was a necessary (and welcome IMO) action. It had to be done. I'd wager a majority of regular citizens not invested in the band have little or no clue that Mike is the only original member in the touring Beach Boys.

I applaud Brian (and Al) again for saying what they did and making it clear. I wouldn't want my name, my band, and my legacy of beautiful music dragged through the mud or associated with an event or cause I don't support.

The only thing Trump's spokesman Sarubian did was introduce his own "war room" political warfare mentality and tactics into the issue, and make it about Republicans versus Democrats, or conservatives versus liberals when the issue is trophy hunting, and the objection and opposition to trophy hunting doesn't follow those political label lines. A majority across the board oppose it.

Don't get sucked in to the PAC-style tactics of Sarubian and his ilk. They'll have the issue so twisted and warped by the time it's done that people won't remember what the real issue was. That's what they get paid to do for their politician and lobbyist clients.

The offspring of a very powerful, very wealthy person who is doing some immoral and disgusting stuff (does Melinda Love think shooting animals for fun is an honorable thing? I know nothing about her, but I sincerely doubt that she feels that way) isn't really standing up against her dad with that post.  She may be a very good and decent person, and although I'm sure she's in a tough spot in this, I can't have all that much respect for people in the inner circle - even family - who stand by and essentially coddle Mike's behavior.

Because if one reads the comments on that post, they're filled with "Mike is such a wonderful, great guy" type of stuff - the continuing circle jerk of a bunch of people coddling a narcissist and giving him a free pass on everything he does.

Frankly, it's the same thing the Trumps do. Nobody in the Trump family ever *truly* stands up publicly to Trump. Nobody wants to get written out of a will. Not saying it would be easy to stand up to their parent, for whom I'm sure they have some unconditional love for. But where does one draw the line?

Mike's douchey actions indirectly leading to Trump Jr. publicly mocking and picking on Brian Wilson, who is also a relative, using "triggering" as mocking language to mock a guy suffering from mental illness. Nope, that's not something to be publicly upset about enough to actually address. Maybe Don Jr. can lead to the actual president doing some mocking of Brian's condition, the way Trump mocked that disabled reporter. Nope, that'd probably be not worthy of publicly being outraged about, either. Promoting animals getting murdered for fun, and using the brand name - against the wishes 3 living founders of the band? (And I'm sure Dennis and Carl would not be in favor of this gig either). Nope, that's not something to publicly stand up against. Coddle, coddle, coddle, repeat.

If anyone in Mike's inner circle came forward now and actually said that they were disgusted by everything that's gone on with regards to this event - and that Mike bears ultimate responsibility for this situation - they'd be a massive, massive hero to many (and of course a massive, massive villain to others too). That said, I know I can't realistically expect Mike's entire family to turn on him. But I really think he could be guilted into stepping down from this gig if it was a mass, collective "intervention" type of thing.

EDIT - I re-read Melinda's post and maybe the "embarrassing" part of it means that she's embarrassed by her dad's actions.  So good on her if that's what she means. It's vague enough language, though, to also perhaps mean she's just embarrassed to go through this situation and have people be mad at her dad. Who knows. Still, everyone in the comments is coddling Mike, which under the circumstances is gross.

Soft rebukes ain't gonna cut it here.  But at least she's saying *something*. Pretty much the only inside person besides Brian/Al/David to publicly say even a peep.

I interpreted Melinda Love's post as being embarrassed by her Dad, at least indirectly.

I take her message as something along the lines of "I don't always agree with him, and people tell me to tell him stuff all the time, but I can't be held responsible for what he does."

As to what level of responsibility she has in any of this, I honestly can't say. That's not an easy question to answer. If I were a family member of Mike, I'd probably just do what Brian did. That's the most anybody can do.

Here's the thing that makes this whole debacle even more perplexing: I'm *guessing* Mike Love does NOT like the idea of trophy hunting. But he's so enamored with doing the gig, of being Trumpian, that he's not only ignoring that potential impulse/feeling, but  also refusing to even offer a limp "I disagree with trophy hunting, but also think free speech blah blah blah...." sort of answer.

He's not giving one inch on this, and it reeks of just doubling down because he was called out on it.

Or who knows, maybe Mike "let's order a vegetrian pizza" Love really is okay with trophy hunting. That he can't even offer a limp rebuke of the theoretical idea behind it is telling, of something anyway.

The fact that Mike isn't budging an inch on this, but by comparison, backed out of some sort of Sea World gig in 2014 (I can't remember the details) tells me that he is so yippee yippee excited about being associated with the Trumps, that he is walking on eggshells to come across as "strong" as possible, maybe even betting on another White House invite, or a Presidential Medal of Honor that Donnie Jr.'s dad might bestow upon him. Look at the asshat who just got one last night. It's not farfetched.

I'm not even kidding. We're in Idiocracy times here. All Mike ultimately cares about is getting big rewards/awards to feed his ego to "right the wrongs" of the past, and get on more equal footing with Brian's stature in the industry. (Donnie Jr. "knocking Brian down a few pegs" is only an added, unexpected bonus in this). Mike has figured out that the president (who he is buddy-buddy with) is willing to break with tradition and reward pathetic, undeserving celebrities with all sorts of goodie bags of respect, in any number of forms. This is Mike's last chance to go trick-or-treating for all the loot.  It's so, so pathetic and conniving.

I'm willing to bet that some aspects of this theory are true, and are a reason why Mike simply forgot about his "otter" lyric, and in an instant gladly swapped his decades of posing as an environmentalist with more fellating of the Trumps.  

Mark my words: Mike is going to get some "reward" of loyalty from Trump at some point over this. And it'll prove it's the reason why he did it in the first place. Sh*thead.

I can't say that I would have more respect for Mike if he admitted he'd decided to give up being a vegetarian or even wanted to take up hunting but at least he couldn't be called a hypocrite. But no such claim. So, Mike - you're a hypocrite.

First exclusive photos of rehearsals:

(https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/simpsons/images/4/4e/KokomoSimpsons.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20190601133606)

Great picture! :lol

(https://c8.alamy.com/comp/REEF7D/mike-love-music-beach-boys-photo-gijsbert-hanekroot-hilversum-netherlands-1-1-1976-local-caption-beach-boys-mike-love-dennis-wilson-REEF7D.jpg)

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51vnZx3XCzL._AC_.jpg)

In going down the rabbit hole of Google image searches involving Mike Love eating, I was reminded that, while I'm not an expert on the varying definitions of "vegetarian", he is not strictly so. He does eat fish:

(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/p720x720/23275380_1551579348254234_895480398493909859_o.jpg?_nc_cat=103&_nc_ohc=QU7XIGWhYdEAX-67IGG&_nc_ht=scontent-lax3-1.xx&_nc_tp=6&oh=1a64bcc97d6932cd1ee9f1df3b7a87b8&oe=5EC0E87E)

I'll forego the tasteless jokes about Mike eating the whale from the "Summer in Paradise" cover.....

Lol, just looked her up on Facebook. That profile picture is a case of the apple not falling far from the tree!

Well, actually I see that she posted some anti-Trump article recently, and personally captioned it "Some things are simply more important than money.", so you're incorrect there.

I think that mindset is as far from the Mike tree as an apple could fall.

AGD is going all out on EH board today against his former idol.... :thud

She’s never been anything but nice to me in Facebook. As far as I’m concerned this does not affect my opinion of her in any way

IIRC, Melinda Love used to post here years ago and seemed like an exceptionally nice person.  She can't control what her old man says or does any more than that rest of us can control our parents.  Sad if people are hassling her about this.

I took Melinda Love's post to mean that she IS embarrassed by her dad's stance on this and that it's not the first time she's been embarrassed by him. Not to say she doesn't love him, but she doesn't always agree with him.

Maybe Mike has been promised the Presidential Medal of Freedom and doesn't want to jeopardize it.  ::)

What's the countdown until this gig from hell happens in Reno?

I do seem to remember that a few years ago he was complimenting his wife's (sorry - I've got into the habit of calling her Morticia because of a close resemblance to the actress who used to play that role) Christmas dinner offering - turkey!  She replied that it was good because of the sauce. If I am remembering rightly - and it sounds absurd so perhaps I'm not! - she said she had used a quart of apple cider. Turkey... cider.... he seems to be neither a vegetarian nor a teetotaller.

I kid you not, in Mike's book he talks about how in more recent years he got more nasaly and had head congestion, and was told it was due to excessive dairy. He goes on to describe in tragic detail having to give up his coffee ice cream and "beloved Tillamook cheddar" cheese. He literally expresses more sadness over giving up the cheese than he does over the 50th reunion ending.

In all fairness Tillamook IS pretty good

In fairness, cider in the U.S. usually means the non-alcoholic variety.

Oh, I'd be sad to give up cheese too.

It's just funny to run through his book, and find how he rushes through Al's departure and then rushes through C50 ending, all rather clinically and even bitterly. And then the real emotional turn comes when he discusses giving up coffee ice cream and cheese.

I asked this a little while back, but can someone point to where David Marks commented on this?

Update from the originator of the petition:

https://www.change.org/p/beach-boys-stop-supporting-trophy-hunting/u/25705355

David graciously shared the LA Times link about the petition on his artist FB page:

https://www.facebook.com/DavidMarksOfficial/

Thanks. I must have been looking at his personal FB page instead of his artist page. Interesting, and I definitely admire that he stood up on this issue.

Naysayers (including someone who has occasionally posted here who predictably defends Mike and attacks Brian) are trying to twist this thing around underneath David's post, and Carrie Marks is appropriately tearing them a new one.

Yep. Good on David, good on Carrie.

So, the only BBs member too chickensh*t to make a public statement about this whole thing is good ol' Brucie.

Not surprised

- 127,000+ signatures on the petition.

- Negative comments from longtime fans regarding the gig deleted off Facebook.

- Brian, Al, and David publicly support the petition.

- Petition story makes major news networks worldwide.

- Mike claims that "freedom of thought and expression" are the reasons he's continuing with the gig.

- SCI releases official video telling hunters to "trigger" people opposed to hunting.

- President's son publicly states he's proud he "triggered" Brian Wilson.


If Mike plays this gig there is no way his reputation in The Beach Boys fanbase is ever repaired. It was one disgusting thing to play the gig when this was merely about trophy hunting. But it's another disgusting thing to continue with the gig after the hosts send out a message encouraging their members to "trigger" those who don't support their murder of endangered species - if Mike gave a damn about "peace and love" this alone should've tipped the scale. But then it's another disgusting thing to continue with the gig after the President of the United State's son officially mocks Brian Wilson (all because Brian doesn't want his music associated with the murder of endangered animals).

He won't stand up against the murder of endangered animals. He won't stand up against a person in power needlessly mocking his cousin (who very recently was treated with some mental health problems). Simply, he won't stand up for peace and love.

The only thing that could salvage this is if he and the band take the stage and Mike immediately says how repulsive their "sport" is, bow, then exit stage left. If that doesn't happen, I foresee Mike never living down the hypocrisy of playing this event. Even his most ardent supporters are pissed off at this gig. I bet Andrew G Doe just lost access to Mike due to Andrew's ongoing support of the petition.

I'm really not trying to be overdramatic, but it's to the point that I don't even want to hear him sing on Beach Boys songs. He can't even stand up for his own flesh and blood who is being publicly mocked by a trophy hunter. Even through all of his feuding with Brian over the years I always thought that, deep down, a small part of Mike actually cared about Brian.

You're absolutely right, this takes his *SELF INFLICTED* villain status to a whole new level. I was honestly less pissed off about Mike using The Beach Boys to play a trophy hunting gig than I am now that Mike is seemingly cool with playing an event that openly goaded their members to taunt people like Brian.

I will never look at Mike Love the same. And I highly doubt others will too.

+1

M&B don’t give two shits about BW and only seek to leach off what was a great band. Carl and Dennis truly were the heart and soul of the group.

It would be funny if we each participated in an online book burning, wherein we each post a photo of us holding a lighter/match to our personal copies of Mike's book.

I’d rather download it as a pdf file from a torrent site and do a video of me moving it to the recycle bin and hitting delete than put money in his pocket

Yeah, but if one of those sites gives you a virus, wouldn't that be like Mike getting retribution?  :lol

I got Norton, b*tches 🤪

That petition starter rubs me the wrong way, "huge media coverage", "global uproar"

He's enjoying it

I agree Shady but if one bright spot can be gleaned, at least more of John Q Public will be able to differentiate Brian from Mike’s band.

Maybe I should do a change.org petition for getting the license away from Mike, because this has been a stain on the band’s legacy if there ever was one

I really hope that, petition or not, that is ultimately what will come out of this whole controversy.  I wouldn't be surprised if those sort of plans are already in motion.

Yeah, I read a post of his elsewhere and he was insinuating he was happy that Brian disowned his own band. Something else he said really rubbed me the wrong way but I can't remember.

That being said, I still support the petition. Regardless of his intentions, he is 100% right about this. Also Billy, if you make that petition I will sign it.

+2

I am done with Mike forever.  I feel the same way you do.  I’m so disgusted with him that I don’t even want to hear his voice on BB songs.  I hope this one gig is worth losing any modicum of respect from legions of BB fans. 

this just solidifies the beach boys slogan that popped up when, mid 80s?   "America's Band".............they really are- they are divided just like the country-- Bruce/Al -- Mike/Bruce.......i mean we already knew they were split, but this is just very public now, and political.  Americas band indeed!

I mean I don't want to see the Beach Boys now divided fan base like if you are liberal you must support Brian and Al and if you are conservative you must support Mike and Bruce.   Let's not do that-

OH GOD i havent been following for the last 30 hours thank you rab4861 wow so David Marks made a statement in support of Brians statement?  "T's" son make a snarky tweet?  oh mean this thing is blowing up: the gigs tonite--- THE NEXT 10 HOURS IS ESSENTIAL::: do you think this is going to fizz out, or is this the beginning of an ongoing thing?????? oh god

Which is so sad. The Beach Boys music is meant to unite and spread love. Not divide and spread hate. I keep politics out of most things in my life, and I don’t really see this as a right vs left issue. This is strictly a right vs wrong issue to me.

@Marcella27, sadly that’s just the way I feel right now. Mike traded one gig for his biggest yet permanent blemish on his reputation.

In the coming weeks it’ll be interesting to hear if Mike’s band members talk about this gig.

Mike, made a joke, about eating the whale from the SIP cover????  as a lifelong fan i think it is important i experience this- is it on youtube?

For those who do have issues with the petition starter and his method of operation, etc...and count me among them despite agreeing with the message of the petition and signing of it out of principle...please check out what the Safari Club International has released yesterday around noon.

Twitter link:
https://twitter.com/SafariClubIntl/status/1224746518546010113 (https://twitter.com/SafariClubIntl/status/1224746518546010113)

YouTube video link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXSqyZhQ5Lg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXSqyZhQ5Lg)

Read and watch that, and you'll see a targeted PR campaign using the word "trigger" as the key. I had a feeling something was up when Surabian got involved and quoted, as he's not simply a spokesman for Don Jr., but he's also a power player in various conservative PAC's and organizations, and has been involved in the higher echelons of marketing political ideology alongside the likes of Steve Bannon and Ed Rollins. In other words, he's not working as a lowly spokesman.

So all of this with the convention in Reno also got swept up in what looks like a marketing/lobbying attempt to shift focus from the trophy hunting issue to hunting overall, and paint those who object to the SCI group's association with the trophy hunting industry as something they're not.

And we saw this play out *exactly* in Surabian's comment about "triggering", and calling Brian Wilson a "Hollywood liberal elite" or whatever he said.

These are professionals, they know what they're doing, and they're invested in the higher echelon of hardball politics and lobbying...and they also know how to distort and deflect issues so the original issue gets lost in a sea of bullshit and unrelated topics.

But I said all that before. And I also said it before seeing the SCI marketing campaign as shown in that video just posted yesterday.

Have a look. This is how a public opinion campaign and lobby gets launched when millions of dollars of big money is involved. The key word is "trigger", apparently.



And again, how pathetic to see Mike drag the beautiful music of The Beach Boys into this mess. I'm with Brian and Al.

I don't have a copy.....

I'd love to see him lose the right to tour under that name though I can't imagine it coming to that. But at least it shows the level of Mike's hypocrisy and is surely good publicity for Brian, Al and David Marks. There is supposedly no such thing as bad publicity but I know one person involved with the UK fans who is prepared to close down a fan club on this account.

It is done....

(https://scontent-sjc3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/fr/cp0/e15/q65/85021198_1373625599484551_2075200044193021952_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&efg=eyJpIjoidCJ9&_nc_ohc=4kd-FMgjGv4AX9hw_h3&_nc_ht=scontent-sjc3-1.xx&oh=c499ffc842fe39b3f3d953b841794596&oe=5EBB0533)

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

What a dinky performance, not worth the trouble of destroying the legacy....

1. I wonder if the video screen behind them ever showed pictures of Brian, Carl, Dennis, Al, or David during the performance.

2. I truly wonder how the bandmembers themselves feel about this - and I wonder if anyone in the fandom close to any of them will ask about it at some point.

3. Where does this go from here? Upon signing the petition I have vowed not to buy any BB related material ever again (thanks to Mike’s upstanding decision to go through with the gig). I’m wondering how many of us will actually go through with that. At the moment I’m so disgusted with Mike I don’t give a damn about hearing his voice through my stereo, but I’m sure when the Feel Flows set comes out we’ll all be itching to hear the material. Plus Mark and Alan have probably put their heart and soul into the project - regardless of Mike’s pathetic actions those two deserve support.

4. Watching that video of a mountain-lion being shot out of a tree at almost point blank range - I am heartbroken that The Beach Boys name is now forever associated with these acts of cruelty.

5. No matter what excuse Mike has for playing this gig, he has NO excuse to play for an organization that sent out a public message asking their members to “trigger” people like Brian. What’s ironic is that Don jr went along with that message, and Trump’s wife is supposedly heading an anti-bullying group whose one main goals is to end online bullying. Blatant act of hypocrisy.

6. If it wouldn’t be such a struggle for Brian I would love to see them take away the license from Mike.

Also, I would love to know any justification they have for playing that gig. Mike claimed some freedom of expression BS while some poor guy was being paid to delete all comments about the gig. Was it about money (of course)? Was it about ego (of course)? But for the bandmembers themselves, how do they justify this? Were they threatened to be fired if they didn’t play this gig? Do they actually think their involvement in the concert was a business transaction and not a show of support for SCI? Do they even care that the convention they played publicly asked those attending the concert (members of SCI) to “trigger”/taunt those who oppose the murder of endangered animals? Do they care that the person whose music they were playing was opposed to this concert? Do they care that Al and David were opposed to them playing this concert? Their very own idols asked them not to play and they did it anyways, does that bother them at all?

So many questions, I’m just appalled that the band went through with it. Mike has proven he’ll do just about anything for the almighty dollar, but it’s surprising the rest of the band didn’t protest this.

This point concerns me too. I think it is wrong to lump together the rest of the original Beach Boys - Brian, Al, Dennis, Carl, David - none of whom have expressed support for trophy hunting with Mike and Bruce - all the surviving ones have expressed opposition to it. I can easily stick to a vow not to attend any M&B shows - and THAT is what it should be about. Punish the offenders.

The petition has been signed by over 130,000 now. Let's hope this encourages the management to make some sort of statement clearly limiting responsibility to those who sought to play this gig.

Well, it's complicated, isn't it? There's going to be some cognitive dissonance involved because I still love the music, plan to buy the good stuff (should any more be forthcoming) and I don't feel beholden to the terms of an activist who was clearly not a Beach Boys fan and had little to lose in not listening to their music any more. I only signed on when encouraged by Brian and Al. But separating the past from the present is not an easy thing to do when two of the members stand in opposition to most of what I believe in the current environment. I don't know how this will affect my enjoyment of the music at this point. It's strange days as a fan for sure, and it's sad, but Brian's great art will endure for me.

Oh my gosh, how can I respectfully say that you're off your freakin' rocker, man (along with a couple other of the posters).   My gosh.  A friggin' concert for fans.  I mean...put it into prospective across the 60 years of this bands history.  We've looked past the bad bad things of Dennis Wilson, Brian Wilson...geez...every band member has been associated with shady folks...played shady places in the 60's....70's....certain countries that that had horrible conditions for gays....women...people of color....   Associations with certain publications, donors....private events.... Now, they're private lives...I'm not even going to go there.   You're making this out like the worst ever and now you'll never listen to the Beach Boys.   You're anger is at a level that it feels like you'd be happy to punch Mike Love in the face right now.  All of this 'extra' stuff is not his ownership.  He just agreed to play a freakin' concert and move on.  

I could (and probably are) be totally wrong about my hunch, but you probably rarely even heard of this organization before this situation.  The hate you're showing due to your apparently endless love for these hunted animals seems overblown since I'm not sure how involved you were in fighting this organization prior to this one event.  Its like...if this petition wasn't started and caught the news media agenda, you might have not even known about it.   They were trophy hunting in the past and in the future and you'd be just talking about the upcoming beach boys box set.   So, the hypocrisy is comical.  

If Brian Wilson REALLY wants to assert his stance and attack these hunting practices in a pollical mindset to push to have it made illegal, then he should and I'll be watching.   But, then...some of the hard facts will need to be discussed.   I don't know much about this group of stupid hunters, but I hear that Africa welcomes them because of the millions in fee revenue from buying these trips, the locals get the majority of the meat from the kills to eat and the entire organization has helped on the conservation of many of these animals immensely.   That in no way justifies the action if people choose to make it illegal, but there will, of course, be impacts both positive and negative to a change.  

Man...its tough to 'type' arguments back and forth out.  So much easier to have a conversation.   Probably why I don't post much.  But, I don't want to continue to 'trigger' people.  Ha ha kidding...for goodness sake...kidding.  I'll just shut up and stop reading this topic.  

In reply to Nathan Snyder, I disagreed with trophy hunting before I ever heard of this organisation or concert. I've signed literally hundreds of petitions about animal welfare and contribute to various animal charities.  What annoys me about this gig is that Mike, who has professed various love and peace beliefs in his time, is using the name of a band that has endorsed various environmental concerns to play for people with whose views three of the original band members do not endorse. Any business relies on good customer relations so it is unwise to ally itself with a view that is extremely unpopular. That is rather different than simply playing in a country which has less enlightened views than one's own.

I don't want what MIKE and BRUCE have chosen to do to affect my appreciation of the music recorded before the convention took place... and it won't. I won't go to any M&B shows in the future, nor buy any music released under their own names (and they can't do new stuff under the Beach Boys' name). That's no hardship of course! I also find it intensely irritating that Brian was insulted by that POS. And Mike with his sudden enthusiasm for freedom of thought, remains silent. He'll be accepting people's right to a free opinion on substance abuse next... oh, wait!

Seriously? You're really comparing the Wilsons' drug use with:
 Mike/Bruce's support of a trophy hunting organization/going against the principles they've claimed to believe in for decades/putting the BBs band name to a cause that the BB main creator doesn't believe in/ Don Jr's spokesman issuing a nasty statement about Brian? Also, there have got to be better ways to promote conservation than actually killing endangered animals. You're making no sense.

[deleted]

It is ironic that Mike put the whole operation through all of this to play in a hotel ballroom. It's the same setup logistics-wise as playing an Orthodontist Convention or something.

While such a gig is probably more lucrative than the small audience and venue might indicate, make no mistake, in my opinion this gig was *zero* about the money. Mike would survive on 124 shows per year instead of 125.

As for the boycott, I don't mean to undercut it, but I always viewed that petition as such as simply a way to help quantify the mass disappointment with Mike doing the gig, with the main goal being trying to get Mike to cancel the gig (and also bringing to light to the masses that Brian, Al, and Dave have nothing to do with it). Boycotting the release of stuff recorded 50 years ago that also included four other Beach Boys that had *nothing* to do with this isn't really something I ever considered. I guess I could say I'm fine with boycotting Mike's tour, but that would be a bit disingenuous, as I don't buy tickets to his shows as-is.

I can't tell anyone else what to do, but if this Mike debacle has highlighted anything when it comes to the BB legacy and BB fandom, it's that the *present day* goings-on with band members is of *increasingly* little importance, while the archives is what it's all about at this stage. I long ago found a way to deal with listening to Mike's voice and performances without letting him or his actions impact that. So I have no problem continuing to support actual "Beach Boys" releases going forward. I'm not going to let Mike doing an a-hole gig impact the possibility of future archival releases. Leave the boycotting to Mike's tours and Mike's solo releases.

Lest anyone care or wonder, the whole BRI/BB organization and orb is and has always been a shaky, tentative situation. Not buying "Feel Flows" (or whatever it ends up being called) isn't going to help anyone.

Moving forward, I think continuing to scrutinize and look in on what type of gigs and associations Mike is making with the name/brand is the best course. BRI can certainly start looking at how to handle the license vis-a-vis controversial bookings like this.

Knowing how the BB organization works, I don't expect anything else to happen at this stage. Fans and the non-Mike BRI shareholders simply need to continue to brace and prepare for the possibility that Mike might go more extremist and inflammatory, going down the James Woods route that I've referenced a few times. But I'm not sure what else can be done. Perhaps Brian and Al could organize a benefit concert to bring light to true, actual conservationist ideas.

I posted this in two places on ML's FB page in the comments sections where new tour dates are being peddled. We'll see how long they stay there.

These hunting goons on foxnews.com seem to share Mike’s bile about BW’s drug use on a scale I didn’t think possible.  These people who are calling BW “retarded” online are just a sampler of Mike’s trigger happy goons, not BBs fans.

Seriously? You're really comparing the Wilsons' drug use with:
 Mike/Bruce's support of a trophy hunting organization/going against the principles they've claimed to believe in for decades/putting the BBs band name to a cause that the BB main creator doesn't believe in/ Don Jr's spokesman issuing a nasty statement about Brian? Also, there have got to be better ways to promote conservation than actually killing endangered animals. You're making no sense.
[/quote]

Drug use? Wow.  No, never mentioned drug use, but thanks for reminding me of that, too.  Actually, I was referring to other negatively perceived items like their personal behavior and touring in general.  I just assumed that environmentalism, carbon emissions and green-living was important to many of the same individuals and 60 years of touring huge convoys of buses and airplanes around and living in million dollar mansions beyond gated fences seems counter-productive to this type of lifestyle.   

Just trying to put the extreme reaction in context. 

Hey Nathan,

Is it that hard to understand that a band that helped shape my conservationist outlook on wildlife/nature shouldn't be participating in a convention that glorifies the murder of endangered animals?


So the ideologies of any entity running a convention have nothing to do with a band entertaining the members of that convention? Do you realize what this implies? By your logic Mike could play a Klan gathering and it would just be another "friggin concert for fans".


If killing these animals is the best way to conserve the endangered animal species, I would hope that with Mike's history of activism, his resources, and his "peace and love" stance, he would support an alternative way of helping conserve these animal species. This shouldn't be and isn't the final solution to the problem.

Ah yes, driving a tour bus is so similar to releasing a lion in a completely sealed off area for a hunter to shoot and kill for their own pleasure.

Didn't you say in your previous post you were going to stop reading this thread?

Your continued attempts to obscure the one main crux of this current debacle by employing variations of the "Chewbacca Defense" grow tiresome.  ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chewbacca_defense )

Totally correct.  I have a problem shutting up sometimes.  Sorry about that.   I'll stop now. 

The name of the guy who set up the petition is given on Change.org as Eduardo Goncalves.  I messaged him on FB and said that whilst I had signed the petition I thought that penalising the 2 members of the group who had promoted the petition was wrong and that a better idea was to pressure BRI to stop Mike and Bruce using the name in future as they had brought the Beach Boys name into disrepute.  If you agree perhaps you should message him too.  It's easy to find him on FB as he has the petition as an icon.

In his last message to those who signed the petition, he specifically said "Mike Love's Beach Boys" - So I think he has gotten the message - especially since Brian Wilson showed support of the petition.

Yeah, I mean, I don't sense Brian and Al are going to call for a boycott of their own back catalog of music on an ongoing basis.

I think they were trying to bring attention to it, to let people know they're not a part of the show, and to help persuade Mike to cancel the gig.

I don't see any purpose to continue to gather signatures to boycott the band's catalog of music. I'm not saying the whole thing/cause/issue should be dropped. But if someone wants to continue to bring light to this issue, something different than what would now be a retribution-fueled boycott is what should be worked on.

I guess if they want to specifically call to boycott Mike's tour and his solo releases, they could try that. But what can be elicited out of him at this point? At best, some sort of generic slightly conciliatory statement.

I'd wager that unless Mike attempts a media blackout for the next few weeks/months, he may well be asked about this. I would imagine he'd perhaps give a chickens**t answer along the lines of that statement he put out.

As to the question of how Mike's backing band feels, we obviously don't know. But I'd wager the majority of them are probably in the same boat as Melinda Love. They might disagree, but they have no control over any of it. It *has* to just be another gig for them unless they want to jeopardize their job. I doubt Mike would ever tell them before a gig "if you don't do the gig, you're fired." I think such would be implicit in most jobs if you actively simply refuse to do a job you are being hired/paid to do. So it isn't just "another gig", but it also *is* just another gig. And take a look at their upcoming schedule. Starting tomorrow, they're headed into *21 shows in 24 days*. They have both the luxury and hardship of not being able to dwell on this Reno gig, because they'll be run ragged over the next month.

Where are people getting all the stuff about shooting lions and elephants from?

How many signatures would an online petition garner to strip Mike of the license?

I'd wager more than a few.

From articles like these:
https://www.wideopenspaces.com/us-ban-elephant-hunt-imports-stirs-controversy/
http://advocacy.britannica.com/blog/advocacy/2020/01/canadian-safari-club-chapter-shuts-down-botswana-elephant-trophy-hunt-auction-following-protests/
https://www.safariclub.org/news/sci-supports-hunting-part-lion-conservation

I would hope that no one who's a fan of the music will let Mike ill-advised gig stop them from enjoying the music and supporting future archival releases.  I oppose trophy hunting and I opposed the gig, but I didn't sign the petition because I had and have no intention of boycotting the music.

A few months ago, I saw Mark L and Alan Boyd sitting together at David Leaf's UCLA event, and I was reminded that Mark has been doing tremendous work over 30 (!) years delivering us great stuff and preserving the legacy of the group's brilliant work particularly from its first decade.  The same is true for Alan Boyd for almost as long.  I sincerely hope that no one here thinks they have some sort of moral high ground in boycotting the work of Mark and Alan (and Brian, Al, Carl and Dennis, too) because of one stupid gig by Mike Love & associates for a despicable organization.

Boycott the Mike-Bruce stage show if you must, but a lot of us were ignoring that already anyway.

SCI's very convention has taxidermied lions on display all over the place. The Safari Club (SCI) outcried against Trump's decision to ban imported elephant "trophies" in 2017 because they are in full support of the killing of elephants.

I'd like to take this moment to once again thank Mark and Alan for their great, great, great work, and I feel awful if these fine folks who are doing such an important job with historical preservation and archiving have to deal with any residual fallout from this, indirectly as a result of the many angry fans (such as myself) who are livid at the current situation. I don't want that to happen.

Yes, the legacy of great work of this band needs to remain preserved. Mike being a POS doesn't change the great past work of the Wilsons, and Al, Dave, and the rest.

Truthfully, all I want is for goodness and light to win out, and for the bad guys to lose.

Okay, so here's a fun question.  A couple of months ago I bought tickets for a Mike and Bruce show in April.  They're coming to my city, and I think the band generally does a good job with the music, so I thought why not?  Obviously, I would rather walk over hot coals than go now.  Mike Love is dead to me, and to those that think that's an over-reaction, I'll just say that I have been involved in conservation personally and professionally, donate money to conservation; it is an extremely important issue to me.  Mike's hypocrisy on environmental (and freedom of expression!) issues are unforgivable, in my view.  

But what do I do with the tickets?  These are the options I'm thinking of:

1 - sell the tickets and donate the money to a conservation organization.  There would be some satisfaction in this, but in the end, it still fills those two seats.  

2 - make a concerted effort to get a refund, and explain why.  I think this would have to involve getting in touch with Mike's management, and while I know it would be futile, might it at least send a message?  

3 - go to the concert, but do it wearing a custom-printed t-shirt with an anti-trophy hunting/anti Mike hypocrisy message.  Could be fun?  

All other suggestions are welcome.  

Um, the pictures of The Trump boys with dead animals?

I think you should try to get a refund. Because if they ignore a well-written, truly sincere note, it will just further show what scum they are.

If by chance they honor your request, it would be a shocker, but it'd be a sign of a tiny bit of integrity that somehow snuck into their organization.

Good luck getting a refund. I’d go wearing this. Freedom of speech and all.

https://www.redbubble.com/i/t-shirt/STOP-TROPHY-HUNTING-by-Greenbaby/15782070.FB110

I really like option #2. Now MIGHT be a good time to do this as they might want to try to calm things down. Also, if that didn't work, you could post their refusal to refund your money at as many ML and BB sites as possible. The upside of that is it might give others who bought tix prior to the SCI event the idea to do the same. It doesn't hurt for ML and management to see that this is not over and done with from the perspective of fans.

(https://i.imgur.com/cgr2DRh.jpg)

Thanks for that CD - crude but effective. Has anyone else raised the possibility that Mike Love's eagerly awaited next solo album might consist of Nick Rivers covers?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OoDYjJ2jmHc

 :lol

The problem is that Mike pays for it, it isn’t just given to him. So, whatever his latest contract says how long he has it, that’s how long he has it. But I do agree, he shouldn’t use it.
I would love if Brian got it back, and then put together a line up of himself, Blondie Chaplin, Ricky Fataar, Al Jardine, David Marks, and his current backing band. Basically everyone not involved with this. That would be a band worthy of the name The Beach Boys

From what we've heard, there allegedly/supposedly hasn't been a vote on the license since that last final vote in 1998/99. That would imply that the license is awarded essentially in perpetuity. In other words, until or if the corporation votes otherwise.

Not sure what other provisions could be in there. For instance, they could vote tomorrow to take the license away. Mike would almost surely tie it up legally for eons, but let's say he didn't. I would assume there would have to be some time allowed to play already contracted dates.

Mike doesn't like pay up front for the license; he agrees to pay a percentage of proceeds to the corporation (and in turn, Mike collects 25% of those proceeds back again as a member of the corporation). 

Long story short, the most likely scenario is that Mike keeps the license likely until he retires or is deceased.

But technically, while extremely unlikely, one presumes BRI could vote to remove the license at any time. If all three other board members voted to do so, the exact sequence of events would be up in the air. Would they get a temporary injunction while Mike sued over this or that? None of this is likely to happen, as it just means more lawyer bills for everybody and less tour revenue (unless Brian and/or Al plan to obtain a license and tour all year).

I really do think, based on Brian/Al/Dave's unified stance on this issue, which was met with Mike not budging an inch or acknowledging his former bandmates' intense feelings on this matter and essentially going rogue, compounded by the dipshit Don Jr. publicly mocking, bullying,and attempting to humiliate Brian being the final straw... that Melinda would go out of her way to ensure Mike is stripped of the license - both as a f*ck you to Mike, and also as a way for Brian/Al/Blondie/Dave to reclaim it - if she was able to do it relatively easily.

Yet legally speaking, it's damn near impossible without hell that nobody wants at this age. And as a result of that dark void of legal nightmare, I doubt Brian or Al would agree to starting those proceedings. Not sure if Carl's estate could be swayed one way or another if there was a very intense unified front from Brian and Al.

Yet I would not doubt if some lawyer phone calls have been made preliminarily, just to check and see if there's anything else they can do. After all, Brian's message said "there's nothing we can do" which to me, implies they checked to see if that was in fact unfortunately the case.

Would be interesting to see how many signatures a petition to strip Mike of the license could garner, though, just so Mike knows how intensely the public feels about him using the band name in the aftermath of having sh*t all over the legacy in such a profound way. I'm sure there would be plenty of former Mike & Bruce show fans and attendees who'd now sign it, too. Not just "Brianistas".

Funny how remarkably similar it is to the hot mess that's going on in the white house now.

I interpreted Brian's "there's nothing we can do" to mean that at such a late stage, there's nothing that could be done regarding that particular show, even if they moved to attempt a change to the license.

That being said, yes, I still think it's unlikely any legitimate moves have been made to do anything about the license, for the myriad of reasons we've been discussing.

Impeach Mike

Maybe I should do a poll *cough*

I know everyone says if they voted to strip mike of the license it would be "legal hell", etc....does anyone know exactly how? I mean, from what is understood (as far as i can tell) if the voting members of BRI voted to strip the license, isnt that pretty cut and dry? They gave him the license and they could vote to take it away, right?

Of course, they would literally be voting to strip themselves of hundreds of thousands of dollars a year of free money, basically...What is the number? Something like 10 or 20 pct of his GROSS touring income? (which is partly why he has to do the 'walmart' touring method) because 10 or 20 pct of the gross gets taken off the top...Lets say he grosses 50k/show (probably more) and does 100 shows (I know he usually does 150/year or so) and its only 10 pct...thats 500k/year divided by 5 (?) members, so thats 100k/year each for doing nothing. And it's probably more, thats a conservative estimate...Not to mention he keeps the beach boys name out there which stimulates record sales, etc. So we're probably talking about 200k/year each for each BRI member. Sure he's annoying and he plays at these terrible events that Don Jr and trophy hunters are at, but to be honest ,if it were me, i'd probably take the 200k/year and just deal with it....am i way off on my numbers?

Not to mention, how many more seats would Brian sell if he went out as "the beach boys"? i doubt very many more....His name is well know. It's Mike's that isnt, hence why he was chomping at the bit to buy the license. When he was going out as "mike love" or "california beach band" or whatever it was, he barely sold any tickets and was playing small venues, as far as i can tell.  I mean how many baby boomers want to see "Mike Love" vs "The Beach Boys"...its a huge difference. Vs How many want to see Brian Wilson vs The Beach Boys? Not a huge difference. YOu can tell because Brian plays about the same size venues as mike as sells similiar (if not more) tickets than "The Beach Boys"

If Mike was stripped of the licence and it went to Brian and Brian / Al / Blondie / maybe David started to tour as The Beach Boys, would Brian get the sole custody of Bruce ?

Strange question, but does Dennis’s estate have any say? Does Dennis’s estate even have any connection to BRI? Does Dennis even have an estate?
I’ve really never looked into it, but I here way more about Carl’s estate than Dennis’s.
Also, I want to know Bruce’s opinion on all of this. Did he want to do it? Is he contractually obligated to do anything Mike does? And why does Bruce play with Mike and not Brian? As far as I know, Brian and Bruce have an ok relationship, or do they not anymore?

For one, I think Mike could try to threaten members with other frivolous lawsuits of who knows what nature, as basically a threat of retaliation. 2005 lawsuit as an example, there was not a leg to stand on, but his lawyers pulled nonsense out of their asses, complete with fictional "wronged" people to testify.  

And/or perhaps he could throw his legal weight around with his BRI vote in order to pull something, where he doesn't sign off on god knows what, or stalls this behind-the-scenes thing, or that behind-the-scenes thing in retaliation. Legal bullying to make his opponents' lives a living hell in one way or another.

So yeah, I am guessing if he was vengeful enough he could even block the Sunflower box set, etc, heaven forbid, even though that'd be hurting himself too in the process. But he's shown in the past that he will cut off his nose to spite his face. So that's a big question mark. There are articles talking today about how many people in Trump's orbit operate out of fear of retaliation. I think Mike in some ways is no different.

It's a hornet's nest.  It's awful to even think about. Yet, I'm sure the desire by some of the other BRI members is there, to some degree anyway.

Dennis' estate has no say.   Shortly after his death, Dennis' estate sold his share back to BRI to pay debts. This has been reported in several Beach Boys books.

Was Shawn the sole person who was in charge of doing that? It's so very, very sad. This almost is up there with Murry selling the catalog for peanuts when one thinks of how much money those shares would have generated by now.

 :lol  :lol  :lol

Shawn was not in charge of Dennis' estate.  The administrator of the estate was a lawyer named Shelley Surpin.

There's a ton of info about the case in these court records...
https://books.google.com/books?id=vdcd1e_SY5cC&lpg=RA2-PP1&ots=MWZvfql-SD&dq=estate%20of%20dennis%20c%20wilson&pg=RA4-PA6#v=onepage&q=surpin&f=false

One of the court briefs mentions that the estate was negotiating with Brother Records, and that there had been speculation of a figure of $200,000 to $600,000 (though the brief rejects that speculation as "irrelevant").  So, it's not clear how much the sale of Dennis' share generated. If someone were really interested, they'd probably have to dig further into the court records.

(https://cdn0.wideopenspaces.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/01/bg_bg_elephant-630x339.jpg)

You’re kidding right?

I read that case file...pretty fascinating, had never seen it before. Thanks for posting!

As I understand it the original agreement between the voting members of BRI was for all members of the band to be able to use the name and pay an amount to BRI for doing so.  After the meeting was over and without discussion Mike offered a higher fee for sole use of the name.  So why not strip Mike and Bruce of the use of the name for bringing the name of the Beach Boys into disrepute and let others use it for a fee - Brian, Al, Blondie and Dave Marks?  They even could offer use of it for backing musicians (as in 'session musician with the Beach Boys'). They may not make the same huge amount of money but they'd make some and at least they'd drag the name out of the gutter.

Makes one Wonder just how long Dennis would have remained in the band as essentially an employee of the group rather than a voting owner after he sold his shares and had he survived. My guess is very short time span. Sad

In order to change the license they need Carl's estate to be onboard as they have 25% each. (And I think they like the money...)

To your point. Not sure Justin and or Jonah Wilson would want to give up their share of the Beach Boys touring income that Mike provides. Jonah is an established real estate agent out in LA and appears to be doing quite well. But that notwithstanding my guess is they like the money.

FYI, the maker the petition completely changed the it from having to do with The Beach Boys to "We call on the UK government to implement OPTION 3 for a Total Ban as a first step towards an END to all Trophy Hunting."

While I agree that trophy hunting should be illegal, it's rather disingenuous to use 130,000+ signatures that were all signed on the basis of protesting Mike Love's Beach Boys. I'm still keeping my signature on there (though I wouldn't know how to take mine off if I did want to), but in case anyone else didn't agree with the newly updated petition I wanted to make people here aware of that. You can report a policy violation and explain why you want your signature off the petition. (Wata: If you want to remove your signature, click "remove your signature" link in the email you received after signing."

edit: thanks, Wata!

Heads-up: If you want to remove your signature, click "remove your signature" link in the email you received after signing.

In case you no longer have the email, you can contact them in this page: help.change.org/s/article/Remove-signature-from-petition?language=en_US
 (http://help.change.org/s/article/Remove-signature-from-petition?language=en_US)

If there was any bright side to this mess, Mike playing this concert did shed a lot of light on the disgusting world of trophy hunting.

I read a good post elsewhere regarding the band's decision to play the concert. It talked about the band having families and bills to pay, and how if they got fired (for refusing to play the gig) it probably wouldn't be easy for them to find work elsewhere. Of which I can completely understand. That being said, I absolutely think Mike should've cancelled the gig, and he should never have put his band in that position. Did you really need this one concert to keep the band financially afloat? Would it have been that hard to find another gig?

I will never buy any solo material from Mike Love. I will never go to one of their concerts. While I wasn't surprised that yet another completely avoidable and embarrassing situation happened The Beach Boys, I was absolutely surprised that it had to do with Mike playing a Trophy Hunting convention. With The Beach Boys' history of advocating for wildlife/environmental preservation - this gig is just such a blemish on that history now. I was also surprised at the amount of support this petition got from all sides of the fandom. If Brian ever played a gig like this I would boycott him as well.

Mark and Alan (and others working hard on the Feel Flows set) deserve our support, as has been said previously in this thread. While I signed the petition, I do plan on buying the Feel Flows set. Perhaps I can donate an equal amount to the Humane Society to offset not following through with the boycott.

What a week: the Facebook comment deletes, Mike claiming "freedom of expression" as a reason to play the gig, Brian Wilson being targeted by the President's son, a hunting organization publicly calling for their members to "trigger" those opposed to their viewpoints. And Mike stubbornly continuing on with the gig. You can't make this stuff up.

Thanks Mike for adding yet another ridiculous and embarrassing chapter to The Beach Boys saga.

I think the idea is that, even if the other three board members voted to strip the license, Mike could tie it up in litigation for years. Look at cases even like the very different mid-2000s lawsuit regarding "Smile" and the freebie UK newspaper CD, etc. While he ended up losing that suit, elements of it dragged on for years.

A lawsuit involving BRI would be even messier. Brian or Al would have to ask themselves, are they prepared to have their offspring or spouses continue the lawsuit if it outlives them? Does Brian want to go for depositions and trials and stuff when he's 84 years old? Again, all the while paying lawyers tons of money, and losing all the license money (Brian has never professed to want the BB name to tour, and even if he did would never do 150 gigs per year, and even if he wanted to, would probably see the license/name frozen while lawsuits flew).

If the guys were 20 years younger, and Mike hadn't been using the license consistently for 22 years, and if Brian actually wanted to out and tour as "The Beach Boys", then it might be more realistic to pursue voting to take away Mike's license. But that's just not the case.

I just don't think Brian has ever truly been interested in touring as "The Beach Boys", for a myriad of reasons. That's one of the main reasons it has been varying degrees of easier over the years for him to just let Mike use it.

Anyone who signed can report this to the website.

I think this is complete bullshit...you can't get people on board  to sign something specific and then change the topic of the petition they signed after the fact.

Report them ASAP.


A: How to Report Content - How to report a petition

To report a petition on Change.org, you must first be logged into your account. Once you have logged in, follow the steps mentioned below:
Scroll to the bottom of the petition page and click on “Report a policy violation” button located below the comments section.
This button opens a menu where you will select a category for your report.
Before you can make a submission, you must include a reason for your report.
The more specific you can be with your reason for reporting content, the more equipped the Help Center team will be when assessing your claim.

Their most likely choice in these scenarios is a choice between a few hundred K per year with Mike touring, or ZERO (or very little). Easy decision.

The only example of the Carl's sons voting against Mike that we know of over all these years is when they voted to allow the "Love & Mercy" score/soundtrack CD to be released. I think that was a much easier decision to make; it didn't jeopardize any touring income (and, in fact, actually would have only brought in some additional amount of royalties to all of them).

When you report, click on "Misleading or Spam", it then gives you an option to select some items, click on "petition content drastically changed"

I am furious at this.

I encourage anyone who signed or supported this petition based on *The Beach Boys* performance to contact the change.org website and report this change of topics by the guy who started the petition.

You can't get people to sign a petition about a topic and then change topics after they've signed.

Now it's about UK laws and Boris Johnson, "The Beach Boys" has been removed from the petition yet the signatures remain.

For fucks sake...

WTF, this makes that one poster at the EH board look like they make sense... :-\

I just posted and pinned instructions and contact info if anyone wants to report this shifting of petition topics to change.org

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,26921.0.html (http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,26921.0.html)

I'd strongly encourage reporting this...what the petition starter did was beyond dishonest to everyone who signed based on the original topic.

The Admin on Brian's MB just wrote

'Hello everyone:

We've read your messages about the Trophy Hunting petition and understand your concerns. Please note that the original petition you signed is being taken down, and your names won't be carried over to any other petitions - it stops with this one regarding The Beach Boys. We're sorry for any confusion or concern!'

Bummer this happened with the petition, for one because it's a dishonest thing to that type of bait and switch, but also because it takes the heat off Mike and distracts from the real issue, that the band name has been dragged into the mud in a most disgusting way.

That doesn't change, nor does the fact that Mike not standing up shows his apparent approval of his buddy Don Jr. publicly attempting to humiliate his cousin, despite any unrelated shenanigans by the original petition writer.

If I didn't know better, I'd almost swear that someone with deep pockets with something to gain from this helped make this happen, in order to discredit the petition and call the whole thing into question.  Probably not, but stranger things have happened. At minimum, anyone with a *desire* to discredit the original petition can't exactly be unhappy with this turn of events.

Mike's still an unethical disgrace to the BBs name, dude needs a narcissist trophy #neverforget

I'm not sure if that was Mr. Goncalves most successful petition to date, but I would imagine that it probably was. He likely realized that there was no more steam in The Beach Boys story and wanted to keep those numbers booming by changing the petition and hoping people would ignore the switch.

I am grateful for his cause (and I'd imagine it opened a lot of eyes up to this ongoing issue), but he should never have changed the petition. Completely disingenuous and in the end likely hurt his his chances of another successful petition - how many others will refuse to sign one of Mr. Goncalves petitions because they wouldn't want another bait-and-switch?

"Please note that the original petition you signed is being taken down."

I think this is the most awful choice he could make. Keep it up as a documented success! But make a separate petition for your UK/Johnson gripe. 130,000 people who voted to boycott Mike should still be heard. Thank goodness we still have the news articles as documented proof of Mike's hypocritical gig.


This really ticks me off. Okay, so Brian publicly denounced Mike's Beach Boys - I'm sure Mike was hurt by that. Perhaps Mike could've taken a second to think about the fact that he chose to use Brian's music to entertain an entire audience and convention that approves of endangered animal killing. He makes some sentence long "justification" for the concert to address all of the longtime fans who disapproved of the concert. Ya know why? Because he couldn't logically justify this concert.

The petition may get deleted but no one is going to forget the time that Mike Love stubbornly played a gig for a bunch of endangered animal killers.

Not surprising, but the Mike Love Twitter page has gone into "protected" mode:

https://twitter.com/mikeloveofcl?lang=en

Again, I think it comes down to not wanting to say a peep of anything remotely critical aimed towards the Trumps. Mike is tossing their salads to get something in return at some point. He's betting on some return on his brown-nosing investment.

It could have been Mike's John McCain "he's not a terrorist" moment, where he stood up to someone (Don Jr.) saying something unquestionably reprehensible, even if it was somehow against Mike's own perceived best interests at the time, but instead he's cool with his bully buddy, who comes off like a villain caricature of some rapey douchebag fraternity bro in a 1980s movie - someone directly connected to the most power in the entire world - attempting to publicly humiliate his "beloved Cousin Brian" and put Brian in his place. That's a-ok.

Pieces. Of. Sh*t. Both Don Jr. and Mike. Birds of a feather.

I mean, Don Jr. is objectively an awful, awful person. Mike I really, really wanted to think was better than that. I guess I was wrong.

Ha. Hahaha. It was only a matter of time. 

Yeah, that Streisand Effect thing is just a myth, right Mike?

You know who I feel bad for in this whole debacle? The OTHER Mike Love, the Genre Conscious Roots Rock Reggae musician from the beautiful island of Oahu, Hawaii. His name comes up right after Mike Love's name, in most search engines.

FWIW, The Beach Boys Wiki page now has a reference to the whole sorry saga. While you may have an opinion on Wikipedia, it’s often the first port of call for anyone new to the band and doing research. Just another black eye to the legacy unfortunately.

In February 2020, Wilson and Jardine encouraged fans of the Beach Boys to boycott the band's music after it was announced that Love and Johnston would take their touring version of the group to perform at the Safari Club International Convention in Reno, Nevada. Despite Wilson and Jardine's protests that performing at the convention would symbolize the band advocating for trophy hunting, Love decided to proceed with the concert anyway responding that the band "[supports] freedom of thought and expression as a fundamental tenet of our rights as Americans." [316]

This has been a terrible week to be a BBs/BW fan....

[deleted by author]

Rab! :lol :lol :lol :lol

Nothing can tarnish the legacy, and nothing can change the fact that Mike has solidified his villain status for all times. Almost like he was aiming for that. I don't doubt one day there will be a movie that will objectively and accurately portray him as the Salieri that his has repeatedly proven himself to tragically be.

I swear... it could have been different. So different. Just since 2012 alone... It's remarkable, how blessed a life Mike has had, to have not only been blessed to be in such a great band, but to have a long and healthy life, and to have squandered those years doing vile and shameful sh*t like this.

Before 2012 he was mainly looked at as lame by the general public. Not the worst thing in the world. Post 2012, and going forward though having seen the worst of him, well, this may really prove damaging. As said above, it’s a shame this didn’t happen earlier

Anecdotal experience: I'm a younger fan, born in 1984, and grew up hearing disparaging remarks in regards to Mike Love. My mom told me she always thought he was a creep. A show I was at around 2010 had the bamd singing the chorus of Good Vibrations adlibbing the lyrics to "Mike Love is a piece of sh*t", Belle and Sebastian has a song naming all the Beach Boys they love, emphasizing "I can even find it in my heart to love Mike Love."

I’ve always tried to give Mike the benefit of the doubt.  I was well-aware of the lawsuits, the HOF speech, the multiple ex-wives, the endless interviews about the dangers of drug use, the unceremonious end to C50, the generally embarrassing stage presence, questionable decisions…I don’t need to go on.  Over it all I tried to focus on his contributions to the music, which I still think are significant.  His lead vocals on a lot of the early stuff, as well as his backing vocals and harmony on a massive amount of BB material, are an intrinsic part of the music.  Sometimes I’ll be caught off-guard and think “man!  His voice just sounds so good!” (the California Girls track on Sunshine Tomorrow/Leid in Hawaii being a prime example).  Beyond the music, I wanted to believe that beneath all the crap, he really loved Brian.  And I clung to his environmentalism as evidence that somewhere under the baseball caps and gold rings lurked a decent person. 

I don’t think so anymore.  The SCI gig was bad enough, but not responding to DT Jr.'s attack on Brian is truly unbelievable.   

   

I’m 6 years older than you ; most of my friends either thought Mike was an asshole or knew nothing about The Beach Boys aside from being a bunch of “lamers” (I literally forgot that was the word used until just now) who popped up on equally lame shows like Full House and Home Improvement

Scary thought...If I’d realized back then who’d played Mr Hawthorne on the New Leave it to Beaver, I’d never gotten into Brian’s music which means i likely wouldn’t be alive to even be typing this sentence. Yikes.

Ha. I had to look that up. The Beach Boys' frequent appearances on Full House is what kept me away from them for a long time. Thankfully some people who I respected steered me in the right direction with their music.

Not to get too personal but I went through an extremely bad depression during my junior year and ended up seeing a therapist. He had a copy of Wouldn’t it be Nice on his bookshelf. I asked about it it, and I ended up checking it out from the library. That was my entry to fandom . Bought Brian’s first album for 99 cents on tape at Blockbuster music and Smiley Smile and Wild Honey on cd. Not too long after, the I just wasn’t made for these times vhs and cd, pet sounds not too long after. 25 years later, here I am .

For the record the guy turned out to be a bit of a creep. It’s no wonder why it seemed like he identified with Landy!

Can this please not become a "we hate Mike Love" board

It's not news that Mike does bullshit things but he's a massive part of the reason we are all here and has given us an endless amount of incrdible songs to listen to.

These guys are getting on,  let's appreciate them all while they are around. Nothing wrong with critiscing but it's getting a little personal.

Strictly speaking I don’t hate him but I’m angry as hell.

Totally get what you're saying, but all I want to do is to be able to listen to the classic recordings of my favorite band without thinking about the actual reality that the guy singing on the songs promotes killing animals for fun, and is fine with a massively powerful person in the United States publicly humiliating his family member and bandmate, with a power imbalance to end all power imbalances in the mix too. Like Billy said, I'm angry as hell.

And I'm gonna forever have a hard time doing that. If you have any suggestions on how to simply block out those factual pieces of information, I'm all ears. Truthfully. I want to not know this stuff. I want to be oblivious.

I'm especially gonna have a hard time listening to the song Pacific Ocean Blue; the actual album it's on, this wonderful personal Pet Sounds-level heartfelt album by Dennis Wilson, is named after that song, with lyrics that are essentially meaningless now. So yeah, it's tainted even that. It's a huge, huge bummer, man. Dennis should reach down from heaven and punch Mike in the face for shitting on his album.  

I realize I and many others are a broken record about it, but it really hurts. Mike should be stuck in an elevator and forced to a Q&A and answer to this awful hypocrisy, because that's the only way it'd ever happen. Considering his media blackout, he'll probably make it part of any contract for all future reviews in perpetuity that no questions about this show or Don Jr. can ever be asked of him.

Just as a matter of interest, take a read from Mikes own book about the Rio summit in 1992, specifically the Beach Boys donation of $100K to the charity ‘Eyewitness for the Earth’. I hope next time he does an interview he is challenged on being the hypocrite he has become.

https://books.google.co.nz/books?id=3KLiDAAAQBAJ&pg=PT297&lpg=PT297&dq=mike+love+rio+summit&source=bl&ots=jQMRgadBpW&sig=ACfU3U3_GIY09kugF8unszIOta6UOeMdjw&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiShOfv9cDnAhXnwjgGHZ3dCxIQ6AEwCnoECAIQAQ#v=onepage&q=mike%20love%20rio%20summit&f=false

unsurprisingly, the story made the Colbert show. yippee

jump to 10:30 for the goods:
https://youtu.be/0BEofcUdREA

David Crosby retweeted one of the articles about the performance and Brian's statement (this was Feb 4 but I don't check Twitter every day). Probably needless to say that he praised Brian for taking a stand and had some choice words for Mike.

https://twitter.com/thedavidcrosby/status/1224867919089168385

Update on the "change.org" bait and switch: Nothing has been done - The petition signed by Beach Boys fans now has their signatures on a petition addressed to Boris Johnson concerning UK law, and is still up and running as if nothing happened.

That will be the last "Change.org" petition I ever deal with, if they allow signatures given for one issue to be applied and transferred at will by the petition starter to another cause.

After last night's Colbert show, I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop on SNL tonight (new episode).

I'm sorta surprised this classic photo hasn't been repurposed yet. https://images.app.goo.gl/JXRYkdRFA9rPNF297


(https://images.app.goo.gl/JXRYkdRFA9rPNF297)

Completely out of context

That was lovely

Maybe I’m late, but has anybody else read ESQ’s response to this?

I just read it.  "Why did we choose to hurt the Beach Boys?"

The writer's conclusion is that the fans are to blame for hurting the Beach Boys rather than Mike Love's poor decision.

How about "Why did the holder of the Beach Boys license choose to hurt the Beach Boys?"

Sounds like stockholm syndrome.

Remarkable how the article fails to address Mike's silence, inaction, and effective approval of Don Jr. attempting to publicly humiliate and bully Brian. The article acts as if that just never happened.

Because there's really no way to defend that at all. So better to just ignore it and pretend that didn't actually happen.

Well, it happened. And there's no defending Mike's inaction on that.

It is perfectly fair for fans to value ethics and decency, and to expect a modicum of them from musicians we support financially. If there's anything that fans should be united about, it's that Don Jr. acted like a despicable POS, and that burden does fall on Mike to make a peep about that, because it's all pertaining to the situation that he himself started. Implying that Mike's silence is perfectly OK is a ridiculous position to take.

And not sure why the writer chose to bring Dennis Wilson into it (the fact that he hunted.) The man died nearly 40 years ago.

That's a FANTASTIC title for Beard's pathetic article, Super Sally!! Kudos indeed!! And I'm sorry I wasted my time reading such drivel.  ::)

A lady called Deb has written a brilliant rebuttal of David Beard's article on brianwilson.com.

Amongst other things she points out 'REO Speedwagon who had originally been booked succeeded in withdrawing from the performance.' Well worth a read.

Beard seems like a nice guy, and I hold nothing against him personally, but clearly he depends on band access to do what he does, hence this drivel. Sad really, what people are expected to stoop to to stay in Mike's orbit.

No more ESQ for me!

Hopefully Trump Junior's incredible callousness will lose his dad more votes among Brian fans in November than this gains him. I assume that any Brian fans who are pro-trophy-hunting are already Trump voters, so it's really independents whose votes might swing here.

The damage to the Beach Boys brand is potentially huge, but the brand itself does not really reflect the ability to remember its members names, given that the NYT got Bruce's name wrong. Those who truly know and love the music will stay on board.

David Beard's article is a load of horse sh*t (no pun intended).

As usual, there is PLENTTTYYYYY to write about this subject, both the trophy hunting subject, and how this sh*t show went down in Beach Boys land. As usual, this article is NOT that. An article delving into whether it was worth ultimately dragging the whole brand down and stirring sh*t up at BRI in order to further this story, now *that* would be an interesting and complicated article to write. So complicated that this article doesn't do that at all.

It's the equivalent of when one kid in a group does something bad, but the parent yells at everyone to avoid having to single the one true bad actor out.

You'd think after the guy that publishes the only BB fanzine had written *numerous* Mike Love apology pieces in the last decade to resounding criticism (in some cases eventually editing and/or pulling the article, remember the article about Brian Wilson he wrote, the infamous "Is he brain damaged? Yes." article?), he'd learn his lesson that he simply doesn't have the skill to write these types of editorial pieces.

This Beard article may masquerade as a "defense" of "all" of the Beach Boys. But it's actually a way to shunt all blame for this PR disaster on fans.

It perplexingly attempts to absolve Mike of responsibility for booking the gig, turning back to the post-reunion levels of logic, going back to the "it was out his hands" logic, as if some other being or entity books Mike's shows and forces him to do them. No, I think Mike knew about this booking long ago, and if he didn't, he should have. The article also ignores how EASY it would have been for Mike to cancel the gig.

The article posits essentially that *surely* Mike is against EVERYTHING the organization he was "entertaining" stands for, but doesn't address how when you VOLUNTARILY play a paid corporate/private gig for such an organization, you tend to indicate in doing so that you aren't opposed to what they stand for.

The evocation of DENNIS WILSON was LAAAAMMME, and reeks of trying to change the subject. If you're *so sure* that Dennis wouldn't have ever supported trophy hunting, why bring it up? Did David Beard attempt to contact known Dennis friends and associates to even determine how big of a "hunter" he was?

The article also treats Brian Wilson and Al Jardine (and David Marks for that matter) like they aren't adults and can't knowingly and with purpose enter the discussion that this boycott/petition raised.

The article ends with David Beard positing that WE owe the band (including Mike Love) an apology. No, Mr. Beard, no we don't. (I deleted a much less calm, measured response to Beard's *multiple* calls in the article for ALL OF US to apologize to MIKE LOVE. It started with F**K and ended with YOU.)

Mike Love owes his band mates an apology, his fellow shareholders an apology. He owes his COUSIN an apology for not standing up for him when the president's son insulted Brian. He owes the fans an apology for standing with an awful organization.

And if the whole idea here is that everybody made this sh*t show gain momentum and get worse, Beard's article only makes it worse by, instead of offering even a gentle condemnation of Mike Love (don't want to give up those backstage passes and photo ops!), flipping this whole thing into BLAMING THE FANS?

*I* didn't book a show for a trophy hunting organization! I wasn't then also given TEN MILLION opportunities to turn an awful PR situation into a GREAT PR situation by canceling the gig.

I should also point out that Beard initially posted via ESQ with incredulity that Mike was *surely* against trophy hunting, and said he hoped it would all get worked out.

But apparently, when Mike Love almost literally said "F** all of you, I'm doing the gig", then the entire deal turned into it being the FANS' fault for raising a stink about this in the first place.

Beard couldn't even muster a limp "Meh, well, bummer Mike's doing the gig, but what can you do?"

I'm amazed how I can possibly continue to be disappointed. What a bummer.

Also, and we'll see how quickly this might get edited in the article, Beard refers to the gig in question as having taken place in "Vegas", when it actually took place in Reno, which is nowhere near Las Vegas. Excellent research.

While I'm at it, I'd like David Beard or anybody to produce a 2020 quote from Mike Love that actually indicates he opposes trophy hunting and/or this organization that he played for. "He's a pescetarian" doesn't count. I think it's absolutely fair to put the onus on Mike on this particular issue. I'm tired of the "he probably opposes trophy hunting, but...." reasoning. No. Until Mike chooses to come out and explain that he is 100% opposed to trophy hunting and 100% opposed to the organization he ELECTED to play a gig for, I'm going to assume he absolutely *does* support trophy hunting and *does* support the organization.

This is a bit like the 2012 reunion. After the debacle ended, a lot of us were all "Mike surely loved everything about the reunion and was enthusiastic about doing it, but then....". No, I think it actually is worth asking if Mike *never* wanted to do the reunion in the first place (in the form it ended up being anyway), but then a huge cash advance may have made it an offer impossible to refuse. I think that's something worth thinking about and considering.

A publication that calls itself "The Beach Boys Publication of Record" goes on the record and blames the fans for the controversy surrounding Mike Love and the SCI convention.

Shameful.

What you're seeing is another layer peeled back and visible to all in the ongoing attempts to control the opinions surrounding this band, and to either blatantly ignore criticism from fans leveled at the actions and words of Mike Love when they disagree, or whitewash mistakes and bad deeds from the record entirely, as was done repeatedly, especially over the last decade.

I don't need a finger-wagging lecture delivered by the self-named "publication of record" when the blame rests solely on Mike Love for choosing to accept and play a gig which tens of thousands objected to and which brought negative and damaging attention to the band name itself. Mike licenses the name "Beach Boys", he does not own it for his personal use.

If anyone wants to see what has been going on behind the scenes specifically since 2013 and in the wake of the C50 situation, start by reading this editorial-slash-lecture.

Perhaps consider why having open forums for fans to freely exchange thoughts and opinions is important and valuable. And also consider the sources of those who have been trying to shut down such outlets through actions such as locking social media pages to comments, trying to bully and control opinions of fans on multiple outlets, and now trying to shame fans into thinking they are responsible for causing problems for the brand when that blame ultimately rests in one specific place.

It isn't hard to figure out. But it is sad to see a band full of such joy and such a great legacy being reduced to this kind of behind-the-scenes nonsense and attempts to control and shift the narrative.

"It's all about the music!" "We love all the guys!"

Yeah, right. The line drawn in the sand seems to be more visible now than it ever was, if defending or protecting Mike's interests and image leads to blaming fans who are the main reason this band has continued to be relevant and newsworthy after close to 60 years.

Yep, as well-intended as their ultimate result seems to be (smoothing things over, trying to "move forward"), it's very sadly textbook gaslighting.  I don't believe the author truly even believes it. It's pretzel-bending logic.

I am questioning whether I buy another BB release. I have been a HARD CORE fan since 1981, but if Mike will not stand up and defend Brian, the I have nothing left to celebrate this peice of sh*t band.

If an author writes and publishes something they do not believe, then the issues of integrity and honesty come into play and they owe the readers and fans an apology.

Mike isn't *the band*. He's a solo act that licenses the BB name for touring.

Also, I'd say at this stage, the Mike Love of 2020 isn't even the same guy as the guy of the 60s, or even the 80s frankly, in my mind.

Don't let this stuff ruin everything that isn't the current iteration of touring and recording that Mike does.

Mike should not be allowed to ruin our enjoyment of music that was written and recorded years before the current version of the Beach Boys existed, nor of Brian's tours with his own band.  That gives him a power he does not deserve and punishes wholly innocent members of the original Beach Boys and those who have worked on the recordings.

Let fans who disagree with Mike's damage to the legacy stop attending his concerts by all means. I'm sorry that this will hurt his band but even if it were to be done on a temporary basis perhaps it would make him at least avoid further such actions in future. It is a very fragile hope. If Mike took notice of the fans or of the bad Press he gets, surely he would have tried to redress the problems years ago. Mike just refuses to accept anything is his own fault.

** EDITED ** because I realize my venting really doesn't add anything constructive or productive ...

but hey, you're all groovy.

I remind myself one key fact: The music will outlast the rough waters. The music is what matters.

I'll let karma land where it may. Those who want to make the world a better place should reap the happiness they are due.

But boy, that ESQ "editorial" definitely rubbed me the wrong way ...

(Shakes his head and puts on some tunes to ease his mind.)

+1

Mike is so, so, so lucky that there are still so many people - people who find his actions reprehensible - but are still willing to listen to music he co-created even though they deeply can't stomach his actions on a humanistic level.  

Actions that are the very *antihesis* of what this band is about, and ironically are also the complete anthesis of his last name. Defending his latest series of actions is not something that'll be on the right side of history, even if the defense is well-intended.

Primarily, the immense genius and heartfelt human decency that the Wilsons brought to the band are chiefly the reason that we're willing to not shun that old music, because Love - regardless of any good contributions he brought for the first several years of the band - has most certainly given us many reasons to want to simply turn away.   It's only largely because Brian's music is that good that we're willing to put up with this, and the jealous, petty Mike Love is able to hang on to the BBs train and not be fully kicked to the curb.

Never would this have happened with Carl alive. Never.  

You and many others feel exactly the same way.

Trying not to be as upset discussing it as I was reading it, I still cannot believe how the crux of the article was blaming the fans - whose support is the lifeline for this and ANY band or artist - for something that was 100% the responsibility of one member Mike Love, while the other three surviving original members Brian, Al, and David each either acted toward or spoke out in their objection to the band they formed playing for this event.

Three out of four original members opposed it, publicly, and it's the fault of the fans?

It absolutely boggles the mind.

I read the article, started to post, and was so livid I had to stop.  The whole premise of the article is ridiculous and the arguments are just not well thought-out.  Mind- boggling is a very polite way to put it!

It is just a sign of the times. Deflect and blaming others is now ok apparently. Thankfully most here can differentiate between ‘The Beach Boys’ and the touring group, and will continue to support historical releases. Why would we cut of our nose to spite our face?

I said I was going to do a change.org petition to take the license away from Mike, but it was mostly sarcasm. The more time passes, the more I think there’s not a single reason I shouldn’t.   Now reading the rest of this...getting more pissed by the day. This better not affect any archival releases

The way that the petition was handled was unfortunate and might make future petitions regarding the Beach Boys unwelcome to fans. But it will annoy me intensely if Mike just gets away with this. At the very least, there should be an apology.

I also hope it doesn't affect any archival releases. The music is the message - and when the music is sounded out by this disgraceful kind of mess it does (most of) the original band, the fans and all those involved in trying to promote this music no favours.

We're not going to see an apology from Mike.

From everything I've discerned from discussions with various folks, it's more likely that Mike doubled down on *doing* the gig once Brian and Al publicly called him out.

The absolute best case scenario at this stage for the BB organization/brand/fan base is that, either due to direction from fellow shareholders, or simply an aversion to another sh*t show, Mike may not book gigs like this in the future. And that's best case scenario. A very big *maybe* at best. Given the zeal with which he issued that quick statement saying he was going to do the gig, I could also absolutely see him doing additional politically-charged gigs. Maybe at this point the villainy situation can't get a lot worse, so the thinking might be "Fine, I'll just go ahead and play a Trump rally every week." I have little doubt he'd *love* to be doing more gigs for Trump. A mixture of avoiding PR headaches and simply the breadth of his regular touring schedule has perhaps prevented it thus far.

We're not going to see a retroactive apology. *Maybe* at some point in some random future interview, Mike may limply say he's not into trophy hunting. Again, big maybe.

We're also not going to see a change to the licensing situation. I'm not going to tell someone not to start any petition they want to. But Mike canceling one gig is *far, far* easier a proposition than calling on the other BRI shareholders to vote Mike out of the license (which is the only way his losing the name for touring could happen, short of I guess doing a petition asking Mike to voluntarily stop using it, which is obviously about the *least* likely thing imaginable).

The only way we'll see a change to the license is if Mike is deceased, or suffers some infirmity such that he can't tour, or I guess if he's accused and/or charged with and/or convicted of a serious crime. And even in the latter scenarios, I'd guess BRI wouldn't easily make a change to the license unless Mike was actually convicted of a serious crime. I don't wish any of these things on Mike, and I don't see any of them as an obvious outcome any time soon, so a change to the license seems unlikely.

I've wondered about that... scary thought. I don't think it's a given by any means, but it certainly could happen if Mike is asked personally to do similar gigs. If he was ever going to go full Roseanne this would probably be the year for it.

Look up James Woods. As I've mentioned before, I think Mike's path is starting to smell like what has happened to James Woods. Short version: He became more and more marginalized and saw less drawbacks to being more inflammatory and gross and mean and cruel.

The only difference is that James Woods can't get much work anymore, whereas Mike still has his lucrative touring gig. That may well be the only thing keeping him tethered in any way.

I don't expect Mike to go that route, frankly. That's not to say I'm not done with him. I am. But I imagine he'll be a little more careful with future bookings. The almighty dollar means more to him than anything else, after all. This has been evident since at least 1966.

TBH I think the only protest I would suggest is a boycott of M&B shows for this year amongst the various online fan communities. While I feel sorry for his touring musicians, you are who you associate with.

So I contacted Ticketmaster about the tickets for the Mike and Bruce show I have tickets for in April.  I explained that I wanted to contact the artist and/or the artist’s management about a refund as I am no longer comfortable supporting this artist.  They responded in true Ticketmaster style.  Despite me explicitly saying that I was not seeking a refund from Ticketmaster, they said “After further review, we determined a refund is not available for your order. Unfortunately, we have no contact information for the artists or their management”.  I wrote back saying that I found it hard to believe that they had no contact information for the artist or their management because, you know, how else do they work with the artist?  How dumb do they think we are?!  Anyway, they wrote back again saying that they “do not provide that information due to being private internal information”.  So helpful.  

Does anyone have any suggestions as to where I can reach M&B’s management?  I can’t seem to find anything that looks right.  I’d like to write a letter/email politely stating why I am no longer comfortable attending this concert.  I sincerely doubt it will matter, but at least I’ll have said my piece.  

A quick google search brought these links up:

https://bookingagentinfo.com/celebrity/the-beach-boys/

https://mikelove.com/contact/

I know emotions have been running high the past couple weeks, so I'd just encourage everyone sending messages to be polite and respectful. I'd imagine disappointed, well-reasoned BB fan letters will make waves more than angry ranting will. (Not directed at anyone in particular, just thinking out loud.)

Wonder if some venues will get some complaints. Maybe at the New Orleans Jazz fest?

This debacle of playing that gig made international news and was picked up by even the network news divisions and late night comedy shows...Easily the worst PR this band has received since the end of C50 in 2012. It wouldn't be unexpected if some of it rubs off regarding bookings and demand.

Sadly, I think Mike's calculation was that the controversy will blow over and ultimately make no difference. And sadly, I think that is probably correct. :(

Isn't it probably one of the few news stories the band has had since C50 sadly?


- archival dumps
- Pet Sounds 50
- SMiLE 50
 - competing B&A and M&B Christmas tours
- Dennis/Queen/Hawkins "Holy Man" (if that counts?)
- SiriusXM channel and reunion
- this

The latest and greatest - to follow up on his stellar pro-killing-animals-for-fun event last week, Mike once again is hijacking the brand name for even more political BS - with "The BBs" appearing on Mike Huckabee's show not once but twice this coming weekend.

Fan-f*cking-tastic to keep pushing awful politics into where it has no business being. Especially in such polarizing times. 

**** This does not help the brand name. This does not help the brand name. ****

These are very, very different times than the 1980s when the band was hobnobbing with the Reagans. Hell, I just read an article in 1992 where Mike parted company with Bush Sr. and was supporting some TM 3rd party candidate because of a pro environmentalist stance. It's not like the band in the past came across as some 100% conservative, heavily political entity.

To follow up the pro-hunting, Trump Jr.-approved event with this really makes an extra political statement.

You'll now notice that virtually every Facebook person who likes and comments positively on Mike's posts is a MAGA hat-wearing Trumper. And… Anybody who isn't a "yes man" is deleted. Gross.

Yeah, I belonged to a group that started doing that, and then they just closed all comments to every post. What's the point of belonging to a Facebook group where you can't even comment on any posts? I left.

That type of overly censored moderation is close to what this community could have turned into had certain factions and their recommendations for changing this place had gotten their way. They didn't, and it won't. Fans should have a say.

Mike:

I'm gettin' hungry... hungry for my kind of comments

I'm gettin' hungry... hungry for yes men and blind followers

I'm gettin' hungry... searching for the delete button

Mike really is busy these days...

The proof that shows that Mike Love is an Hypocrite:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4_kEbup-rw

If anyone is still interesting in this further being dredged up in an incompetent, non-substantive fashion, Beard/ESQ put a link up on their Facebook page to another article written by some other blog/clickbait site ("Rock and Roll Globe").

Click at your own peril; I'm not sure whether this will make you feel more or less like throwing a rock through your computer monitor compared to Beard's article:

https://rockandrollglobe.com/music-journalism/a-deeper-look-at-the-call-to-boycott-the-beach-boys-or-at-least-dont-play-for-people-who-hunt-people-like-sting/

The article might just be worse than Beard's own article. It essentially argues that every band plays gigs for horrible people for the cash, so leave Mike Love alone. The article seems to misunderstand how the "Beach Boys" tour setup works legally.

The guy who wrote the article managed to get an "exclusive" quote from Mike on the subject, I'm guessing because of it's overly-sympathetic tone towards Mike. Mike's quote is not really a quote about the subject at hand, as it's literally a paragraph of gobbledygook that goes on and on but doesn't really say anything. It reads like when you get called on in class to answer a question, and because you don't actually have an answer, you just talk about how peace, love, and understanding are great things.

That particular blogger is a champion of the current Mike and Bruce band who has written pro-Mike pieces in recent years.

What fascinates me is that in both Beard's piece and this newer one, they indicate they are disappointed Mike's band is doing the gig. So there's this impasse that they both simply ignore. I guess they kind of try to use old C50/2012 argument of "it's out of his hands, the gig is already booked, what can be done?", but this ignores that the gig *absolutely* could have been canceled.

This blog dude, for all of his "industry" history, ignores that REO Speedwagon canceled on this Safari thing, and Mike easily could have.

What a dick move to suggest Brian give his "share" of the gig proceeds to charity (and we'll ignore how the writer seems to slightly misunderstand how the licensing setup works with the BB name and how the licensing fees would seem to work). How about Mike cancels the gig, *eats* whatever cost is involved in canceling it (which may have been little to none), and then donate to a charity? Or even *do* the gig, and then still also donate to a charity?

I think a few of these writers overly-sympathetic to Mike don't want to admit that by every word and deed expressed thus far, Mike *is* an enthusiastic Trump supporter, and seems to have gleefully, enthusiastically supported this Safari Club organization by doing the gig.

A classic case of "whataboutism"... it's really not that bad because if you keep looking you'll find people who did worse stuff. That's a really great tack to take.  ::)

O.J. Simpson isn't really that bad because people like Ted Bundy exist. That's the same argument.

At least there's a first here, I never in a million years thought I'd read a big long blog post about this band with "circumcision" in the text.

Well, to be fair, Mike showed a love of love and gratitude back in 1981 when confronted regarding the issue of the band playing Sun City:

“It’s nice money.  The U.N. can go screw themselves.  They never buy tickets to Beach Boys concerts."

I always said that "America's Band" was truly that, in every great and hideous version of that idea (metaphorically and literally) - reflecting the US through 20th and 21st history.

Everything about this is so disgusting.

I've always wanted to be empathetic and kind to David Beard. He's made it impossible for several years.  I know I'll take flack for this, somewhere. I really don't care. M&B have supported this guy. I liked him many years ago. Brian has passively endured what Beard has said in the past, given how he has positioned himself. I wonder if that will continue.

Part of me hopes Brian's oblivious, another part of me hopes he's had enough of the sugar-coated lies.

It’s not inconceivable that Mike looses more in ticket sales this year and in the future, that this one-off private gig payed him. I live in hope. Go see REO Speedwagon instead.
Not to mention any remaining goodwill he may have had for not standing up for his cousin.

Absolutely. The money is one thing… The goodwill is quite another. You can't buy goodwill, and once it's truly gone, it's gone. I will never look at him the same way again. I'm somebody that has stuck up for him many times to fellow fans in person, despite my issues with the guy - I felt it was the right thing to do. Now I couldn't care less. He is a short-sighted, narcissistic fool. Like so many fans, I had given him chance after chance after chance to demonstrate that he deserves such.

That he had the chutzpah to now newly follow up his silence on the president's SOB son trying to publicly humiliate Brian with some babel about showing love and tolerance to everybody is the biggest crock of sh*t I've ever heard of.

Also, where is that blogger addressing Mike staying silent on Don Jr trying to publicly humiliate Brian? Once again, that is brushed under the table, because it's just too inconvenient to talk about it. Because there's no way to defend Mike staying silent on that. None. Absolute ugly hypocrisy.

The man may have done some great work in the past but he most definitely acts like a POS, craps on the legacy, and history will record it as such. Very sad. I'm sure Mike has many moments in his life where he acts like a decent person. I understand that people are complex, and that Mike is not some evil cartoon character.  But truthfully this ugly side of him is too much to take. It's vomit-inducing to think about how many people around him must coddle this behavior, pat him on the head and tell him that the behavior is ok, and somehow not morally bankrupt.

And as Debbie said, the parallels to this wonderful band, and this country, both the really good, and the really shameful and awful, are unbelievably striking. It's worthy of a book being written on the subject.

The letters "POS" are the first three letters in Mr. Positivity.

I hardly contribute and just read, but adding endless negativity on top of an already horrendous negative situation (SCI gig) does no good. Brian wouldn’t do that. And quite honestly, we don’t know what happens behind closed doors in regards to the band and corporation, and decision making. All we can do is speculate, if we don’t know, and that’s part of the reason why we’re all here - I get it, but it can be done in a cordial manner.

Talk about the pot calling the kettle black though. I get that these guys live in the public eye, and everything is magnified, but the endless degrading language has to stop at some point. When do you move on from this, what good does it do? Try to have a more forgiving heart, and focus on the positives of this great band and music made. Wouldn’t you want to be afforded the same opportunity? I think we are all codependent to some extent on there always being a villain in this band, someone to blame. I’m definitely guilty of that at times.

"If someone really is making the argument that an action is no longer unethical because so many people do it, then that person is either in dire need of ethical instruction, or an idiot." https://ethicsalarms.com/rule-book/unethical-rationalizations-and-misconceptions/

You know, I think the idea of examining fandom’s attitudes is important, and also complicated.

Presently, with social media ruining everything in and around “fandom”, there is indeed an element of “toxic fandom”. (See the difference between 2020 Star Wars fandom versus 20 years ago even, and I say this as not a huge epic Star Wars fan).

The icky sort of dysfunctional aspect of Beach Boys fandom over the years, especially in the internet age, an aspect which is obviously ironically a mirror image of the band itself sometimes, is also something worth delving into and looking at.

Some elements of Beach Boys “fandom” have certainly contributed to the toxicity around the whole BB topic, certainly at least in terms of internet discourse.

However, I think the idea that fans are the *cause* of the ills of this band, or the cause of anything to do with its dysfunction, which is sort of what Beard posited in his recent ridiculous article blaming *fans* for Mike Love playing a detestable gig, is just asinine. Further, I would challenge the idea that fans, or at least all fans, somehow *need* there to be a villain in the BB story to focus on. I may have agreed to varying degrees with such an assertion prior to the C50 in 2012.

But the 2012 reunion proved a few things: First, Mike Love, by simply doing the project, was able to bury a *TON* of the ill will/PR he had amassed over previous decades. He began 2012 as a *hero* of the reunion. Second, and related, to the first, is that as C50 got underway, I had ZERO bad feelings towards Mike. I was stunned he not only did the project, but went along with a Brian-centric album, and allowed Brian’s band to essentially *take over* the touring band for a year. Sure, I and most were probably nervous from the outset about how the whole thing might blow up/fall apart (which sort of eventually did happen).

But a functioning, reunited, five-man Beach Boys, ideally with good management, continuing to write, record, and tour at the level they did in 2012, would have been literally *all roses*. Even Bruce making a-hole comments picked up by TMZ during the tour quickly fell by the wayside when the quality of the tour continued to prove itself, and in fact improved.

So, in 2020, I’m going to say, in general, that: No, fans aren’t responsible for this band being so f---ed up, and no, I don’t need a “villain” to focus on and would have gladly spent the last EIGHT years as a BB fan seeing ALL of the guys recording and touring together. We could have had two or three more albums with that lineup, and probably 500+ more shows by now.

Stuff like that Safari Club gig is, in my opinion, a case of Mike Love actively going out of his way to sully the Beach Boys name/rep, and his OWN name/rep, and to defiantly place his own agenda above the band/brand/fans.

Sometimes a reality check and a fact check is in order. The reality and fact is that the author of this article, Mr. Sommer, has published articles in the past which made a good number of fans angry. Here they are - and in one case the title alone pretty much sums up where Sommer's opinions stand.

"Beyond the Life of Brian: The Myth of the ‘Lesser’ Beach Boys" July 2015:
https://observer.com/2015/07/beyond-the-life-of-brian-the-myth-of-the-lesser-beach-boys/ (https://observer.com/2015/07/beyond-the-life-of-brian-the-myth-of-the-lesser-beach-boys/)

"For the Love of Mike Love: It’s Time to Destroy ‘the Legend of Brian Wilson’" June 2016:
https://observer.com/2016/06/for-the-love-of-mike-love-its-time-to-destroy-the-legend-of-brian-wilson/ (https://observer.com/2016/06/for-the-love-of-mike-love-its-time-to-destroy-the-legend-of-brian-wilson/)

Read through those, and it will become very clear. Sommer is a flack for Mike Love who tries to boost, support, and excuse Mike Love and his actions by trying to knock down Brian Wilson. It really is that simple.

If you want, search the board's archives for discussions from when those articles first appeared. I would post them, maybe I should so people in 2020 can read some of the nonsense that got posted here in defense of Sommer and Mike Love, but that's entirely the readers' choice. But it's all there.

And I'll note again as I did 4-5 years ago when Sommer appeared with his articles: The timing stinks. It seemed just as Brian and band were out on tour supporting his then-new album, Sommer shows up to "bust" the myth of Brian Wilson, knock him down a few pegs, and in the process boost up Mike Love's profile. When Brian and band were going on tour for the 50th anniversary Pet Sounds tour, Sommer *AGAIN* shows up and pens a piece where he's trying to "bust" the myth of Brian Wilson and in the process boost Mike Love. Only this time, the title of his hit-piece on Brian was screaming "Destroy The Legend Of Brian Wilson!"...while boosting Mike Love.

Now in 2020, when Mike Love had the band name getting more bad press than it has in years, Sommer shows up again defending and boosting Mike Love, while taking shots at Brian Wilson.

Coincidence? Using Sommer's vernacular: "f*** no it isn't fucking coincidence."  Sommer is now 3 for 3 in his attempts to boost Mike by trying to knock Brian down, whenever something is on the record that could potentially take something away from Mike's bottom line via ticket sales or interest from fans and concert-goers in attending those shows. 3 for 3 - Do the math, read the articles, and note what's going on.

We're not stupid. And hell no, as a fan, I will not apologize for the dust-up over the SCI gig. That's as absurd as Sommer's logic used to defend Mike's SCI decisions and his attempts to "destroy" Brian Wilson's reputation.


FYI on the fact-checking.

Sommer posted an "exclusive" statement from Mike Love. In reality, the statement posted by Sommer is a punched-up version with a few additions of a statement Mike Love provided to his fan club via an email sent to members by the club's president the week of the SCI gig, after the initial reports and before the ESQ "apology" article. It is not exclusive, instead it contains most of the exact wording as the "statement" email sent to Mike's fan club prior to the gig. Hmm. Another coincidence?

So, there is that to consider as well. 

I'm all for open discussion and trading thoughts and ideas, but at the same time I have big problems when it feels like the fans are being sold snake oil and are being asked to buy it in bulk. What's that line about those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it?  In this case, I'll go with the great philosopher Yogi Berra: "It's like deja vu all over again."

I don't understand why Mike Love chose this hill to die on, and I certainly don't understand why David Beard is putting more effort into defending Mike on this Safari gig than he did covering the divisive 2012 reunion tour (among many other newsworthy stories).

Why is David Beard, publisher of the only BB fanzine, choosing this hill to die on? What would be so difficult about just lamenting the gig and allowing Mike to be apportioned appropriate responsibility for doing the gig, and then moving on?

The sort of mob wife, hands-off, everything's-fine tone of ESQ is something I've long since gotten over lamenting. That's what it is and has always been. I never expected a long dissertation in ESQ about how Mike was wrong-headed about doing this gig. When the magazine mostly ignored the late 90s/early 2000s dysfunction among band members, and mostly ignored the aftermath of C50 (reprinting the LA Times pieces by Brian and Mike and washing your hands and walking away without much comment doesn't count), it was clear this was a true "Fanzine." To be clear, there have been some great scholarly articles contributed by outside writers. But, while I never needed the magazine to go into the most lurid, negative stuff, its penchant for mostly ignoring band politics and related events of that nature always kept it from being, despite the great advice to retitle the magazine, a true "Publication of Record."

But this insistence on these long-winded, patronizing, insulting "articles" that bend over backwards and invert logic in order to blame everybody *but* Mike for this stuff is just puzzling. I mean, I guess the fan-blaming ESQ piece kind of makes sense if you think about the magazine's need to continue to foster relationships with all of the BB members and BRI and whatnot. It's easier to blame fans, because fans can't offer backstage passes, photo ops, and freebies. I guess ESQ isn't worried about alienating the fans that would presumably be buying the magazine (though I guess in some cases these internet "articles" aren't actually published the physical magazine, which, when that's the case, is potentially telling).

As for this other article that Beard linked to written by Sommer, while I was quickly able to sniff out the guy's predictable angle, I had forgotten he was the author of another infamous hit piece, the "it's time to destroy the legend of Brian" article.

Make no mistake, whether its happening purposefully or incidentally, the tactic here of turning Mike Love, and the "band" in general, into the *victim* while turning those protesting trophy hunting into the bad guys, is a pretty typical move in the world of actual politics. Further, Sommer's "everybody does it, so what's the big deal?" logic is quite reminiscent of recent political maneuvering from the top office. I'm waiting for the next article to read: "It was a perfect gig. There was nothing wrong with it. It was a great gig, everybody loved it, and Mike Love is a 100% stable genius who not only is against trophy hunting, but doesn't even know what trophy hunting is. In fact, animals love Mike Love!"

That piece is just laughable, or it would be if it wasn't so insulting.  The central argument is that all performers do bad stuff.  Great argument!  It's okay to do bad things because lots of people do bad things.  Seriously, I was about to say that this article reads like a fifteen-year old wrote it, but frankly, most teenagers have a better moral compass than this.  The secondary argument is that it's okay to do bad stuff because you need to pad your 401K.  Riiiiiiight. 

But what I loved most was this line:  "Only children, college students, those being supported by their parents or those who have a trust fund have the ability to make perfect fucking politically correct choices. "  Couldn't we add to that list SUPER-RICH music stars dripping in gold rings with massive homes in Lake Tahoe who've actually appeared on Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous?  Is he seriously suggesting that Mike Love faces financial pressures that require him to play gigs for trophy hunters?  Give me a ####ing break. 

Do these people actually believe the drivel they're writing?  Is the thought that their heroes are actually very flawed human beings so upsetting to them that they can't deal with it?  I think it's actually more likely this:  they recognize that Mike playing this SCI show is really crappy.  They don't like it and deep down they must recognize the hypocrisy.  But, when it actually comes down to the wire, does it bother them enough that they're willing to give up the shows, the backstage passes, the perks, etc...? No, it doesn't.  So they have to come up with this absolute nonsense to justify how it's all okay because hey, lots of other artists have played questionable shows too. 

Under different circumstances, I would have liked to go see the touring band, but I won't be doing so now.  My bottom line is that I can't do the mental gymnastics necessary to convince myself that Mike's hypocrisy and greed (and cowardice, in the case of his silence on DJT JR's bullying of Brian) is okay.   

I also don't feel the slightest bit bad discussing this issue and will have none of the fan-blaming that's going on.  I know that, in my case at least, the idea that fans like to have a villain is totally wrong.  I take absolutely no pleasure in this latest Mike debacle; on the contrary, it makes me really sad.  I would much, much prefer that none of it had happened, and I suspect that's the case for just about everyone here. 

Sommer with Mike Love in 2018:

(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/39409288_10156286928658001_1781990868937342976_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_ohc=3bpMBHdacsgAX-BGBh5&_nc_ht=scontent-lax3-1.xx&oh=7c0ff4ef260cc3d1722e2f682bbf7eee&oe=5EFE182C)

Sommer's own picture of Mike's solo album gig in 2017:

(https://scontent-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/s960x960/23674971_10155561093868001_9038421339475207592_o.jpg?_nc_cat=105&_nc_sid=8024bb&_nc_ohc=uuKhk_tkuWEAX8scWM1&_nc_ht=scontent-lax3-1.xx&_nc_tp=7&oh=85d6d6a364f5c211d8deb4a6c978f4e0&oe=5EF6F085)

Sommer with Mike in 2015:

(https://scontent-lax3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/p720x720/11703246_10153181824798001_6564808612317373453_o.jpg?_nc_cat=111&_nc_sid=da1649&_nc_ohc=5oMHPxderWsAX8gde1R&_nc_ht=scontent-lax3-2.xx&_nc_tp=6&oh=df9d742d986f43e1a524259d1f0c88f3&oe=5EC7708C)

Here's an article Sommer wrote that's basically formatted the same as his latest Mike Love article. This time, defending John Lydon for praising Trump and Brexit (the argument being that the context or content doesn't really matter, it's just a reality of the industry, in this case, Lydon selling his book):

https://observer.com/2017/04/john-lydon-donald-trump-brexit-comments/

Not surprisingly considering his BB-related articles, Sommer seems to write often about how politics and music shouldn't be mixed. His targets seem to always be progressive/liberal acts (which, admittedly, make up the vast majority of the field).

He seems to have the typical disdain of a conservative for the likes of Bono, Springsteen, and so on.

Simply put, is Tim Sommer simpatico with Mike due to a shared generally conservative, possibly Trump-supporting view?

It wouldn't be the first time that someone in the rock/music/arts industry (whether artist or journalist/writer) had Trumpian/conservative views but, to avoid being shouted down, simply advocate for art and politics to stay in their separate sandboxes rather than actively just coming out and saying you dig Trump.

These guys all deserve each other. I wish them plenty future chortling sessions back stage before gigs, played for increasingly offensive organizations, all of which Mike has no choice but to play.......

Gotta hand it to the guy, he's found himself a cottage industry.

It's Almost Sommer.

The guy's stuff really does read like what would happen if you merged Mike Love's personality with a cranky and acerbic (but not in a funny or endearing way) self-pleasuring rock critic, the type who scoff at the mainstream and champion whatever they think is punk or indie or whatever, but only until they reach in their back pocket for all of their personal favorite that *are* mainstream, but he thinks he's being contrarian by championing them.

It's funny; typically a guy who writes like this would tear Mike Love's show a new one for being a cover band.

It should also be noted that, from what I can tell, one of the outlets Sommer has written for is RealClearLife, which is tied to RealClearPolitics, which is a conservative "news" site.

Vindication is a sweet and sour thing. Sweet in that I knew years ago I had Mike Love figured out. Sour because of his greedy ass behavior and what it's done to the band's legacy. Mike Love is a body covering pockmark on this band for many years and regardless of what he says did in the early days, he's the bad seed that unfortunately had to be affiliated with The Beach Boys.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKCN20G06Y

real baby trump was (miraculously) picked to kill a grizzly bear in Alaska.  Thanks, Mike, for supporting this behavior.  It truly represents "The Beach Boys" ....meanwhile the real baby trump stands to get a new rug for his pad.

Will never attend another Mike Bruce show and will discourage all friends and family to do the same.....coming from someone who has been to several shows since 93'.

Peace and ....what evs.

Oh, and the "Safari Club" is referenced in the above weblink.....

I’m rooting for the grizzly.  ;)

The sad truth is, the majority of posters here have hated Mike for a long time and events like this just give them one more reason to hate him. Does Mike care? No. Does he lay awake at night, worrying about what the Brian lovers over at Smiley Smile are saying about him? No. He knows they don't like him anyway. They're not the people attending his concerts or buying his cd's.
That's why it's never made sense that the same people were angry about C50 ending. Brian, Al, Blondie, and the rest are better off not having to put up with Mike and Bruce. Brian is the genius that created all the great music; he's got a great band recreating the sounds of those records night after night on tour.
People DO have a choice. Go see Brian's band when they come to town; or go see the Mike and Bruce show. You are required to see both.

I wasn't bothered about the C50 ending - I never wanted a reunion anyway. I was just angry about the way it happened. Mike said in the penultimate UK show that it was a show in two halves. He meant first and second but his words were true in a much more profound way. The first half very much reflected Mike's chosen presentation and choice of songs, the second half Brian's. And there was hardly a feeling of unity amongst all of the band, unsurprisingly in the circumstances.

That's right. The first half was for Mike - the surfing, cars and girls songs. The second half was for Brian - the artistic material. i'm sure Brian's happy he doesn't have to sing Be True to Your School, Fun Fun Fun and Surfin' USA anymore; just as Mike must have been relieved to go back to doing shows without that boring artistic material like God Only Knows, Heroes and Villains and Sail on Sailor.