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Smiley Smile Stuff => General On Topic Discussions => Topic started by: Terry Trolley on December 10, 2019, 04:17:41 PM



Title: Murry Wilson And Snow
Post by: Terry Trolley on December 10, 2019, 04:17:41 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LeQcjyIQWbs&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR3iUAtFLqJV9tP1aGNwDNqJPGqvk3dTJZ2QPPxtyf7B83Og3fYtFbQS6DI


Title: Re: Murry Wilson And Snow
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on December 10, 2019, 04:38:44 PM
What is this? Like, Snow, as in the dude who did "Informer" in the early 90s?


Title: Re: Murry Wilson And Snow
Post by: Wata on December 10, 2019, 04:40:09 PM
Here's the detail of the release:
http://omnivorerecordings.com/shop/break-away-ep/ (http://omnivorerecordings.com/shop/break-away-ep/)

Quote
In 1969, Rick Henn brought a vocal group of interest to Murry Wilson. Purportedly from somewhere in the Midwest (Nebraska? Oklahoma?), not much is known about this four member singing group called Snow.

Omnivore Recordings is proud to announce the digital only release of The Break Away EP. Four previously unissued tracks recently discovered in The Beach Boys archives. Murry Wilson and Rick Henn co-produced the EP which includes the title track, penned by Brian Wilson and Murry (under the pseudonym Reggie Dunbar). The song also became a mid-chart hit for The Beach Boys in 1969. Also included on the EP are “We’re Together Again” another Brian Wilson/Beach Boys outtake and two other tracks, “Wilderness” and “Bless Me”. Unfortunately, not much is known about these last two tunes.



Title: Re: Murry Wilson And Snow
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on December 10, 2019, 04:41:13 PM
Ahh...ok. I was thinking of this guy    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSffz_bl6zo


Title: Re: Murry Wilson And Snow
Post by: CenturyDeprived on December 10, 2019, 07:08:22 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LeQcjyIQWbs&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR3iUAtFLqJV9tP1aGNwDNqJPGqvk3dTJZ2QPPxtyf7B83Og3fYtFbQS6DI

This is truly fascinating. Sounds like a cross between The Beach Boys and The Association. I quite love it.

Now, adding to the endless parade of "what if's" with this band, one has to wonder what would've happened had this new Murry band been a hit and if Murry was back "on top"… How that would have changed the Wilson family dynamic, would he have still passed away a short four years later?

It blows my mind how much stuff has been sitting untouched for five decades in a vault.


Title: Re: Murry Wilson And Snow
Post by: rab2591 on December 11, 2019, 06:10:46 AM
Quote
"Now THOSE guys could syncopate!"

:lol

I love what I'm hearing here, can't wait for more! Thanks for sharing!


Title: Re: Murry Wilson And Snow
Post by: kwan_dk on December 11, 2019, 07:36:03 AM
Nice to see these recordings coming out. I brought up the subject 6(!) years ago!  :lol

Follow this link to an earlier thread to read Rick Henn's recollections about Snow:

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,15348.0.html


Title: Re: Murry Wilson And Snow
Post by: Summertime Blooz on December 11, 2019, 09:12:58 AM
After hearing that, the fact that Murry co-wrote this song makes a lot more sense to me now than it ever did before. In this arrangement I hear a lot of the old-fashioned type of popular music influence that I would expect
from Murry. This is like finding a missing puzzle piece 50 years later, and it's fascinating. I really want to hear the rest. Rick Henn was a most talented fellow and I wonder how deep his involvement was.


Title: Re: Murry Wilson And Snow
Post by: CenturyDeprived on December 11, 2019, 10:04:35 AM
After hearing that, the fact that Murry co-wrote this song makes a lot more sense to me now than it ever did before. In this arrangement I hear a lot of the old-fashioned type of popular music influence that I would expect
from Murry. This is like finding a missing puzzle piece 50 years later, and it's fascinating. I really want to hear the rest. Rick Henn was a most talented fellow and I wonder how deep his involvement was.

Also, hearing this big elaborate Outro/ending part of the Snow version of "breakaway", it feels like a great deal of care was put into this being a very epic sounding ending to the song.

And based on that, it almost makes more sense that Al felt that Brian's version that was recorded for the Beach Boys felt a bit muted by comparison. Of course, who knows if Al ever heard this version, but it almost makes more sense from a conceptual standpoint that this version was the baseline version from which the Beach boys would make their own version from. As much as I like the Beach Boys version of the song, this version does seem to have more of an epic ending by comparison.


Title: Re: Murry Wilson And Snow
Post by: Joshilyn Hoisington on December 11, 2019, 11:19:07 AM
What is this? Like, Snow, as in the dude who did "Informer" in the early 90s?

Fun fact:  I was suuuuuuuuper into that song, Informer, and the rest of Snow’s debut; I memorized the whole thing and performed it in my high school battle of the bands.

Good times!

Also, love Murry’s jams here.


Title: Re: Murry Wilson And Snow
Post by: HeyJude on December 11, 2019, 01:55:50 PM
After hearing that, the fact that Murry co-wrote this song makes a lot more sense to me now than it ever did before. In this arrangement I hear a lot of the old-fashioned type of popular music influence that I would expect
from Murry. This is like finding a missing puzzle piece 50 years later, and it's fascinating. I really want to hear the rest. Rick Henn was a most talented fellow and I wonder how deep his involvement was.

Also, hearing this big elaborate Outro/ending part of the Snow version of "breakaway", it feels like a great deal of care was put into this being a very epic sounding ending to the song.

And based on that, it almost makes more sense that Al felt that Brian's version that was recorded for the Beach Boys felt a bit muted by comparison. Of course, who knows if Al ever heard this version, but it almost makes more sense from a conceptual standpoint that this version was the baseline version from which the Beach boys would make their own version from. As much as I like the Beach Boys version of the song, this version does seem to have more of an epic ending by comparison.

A bit of a tangent, but I think Al has more of an ear, both purposefully and maybe even semi-subconsciously, for weird unreleased stuff. When the Brian ’74 version of “California Feeling” was finally released on “Made in California” in 2013, it was only then that it was quite obvious that when Al cut his version for his solo record in 2010 (likely recorded several years before that), he had been referencing that ’74 version rather than the “LA (Light Album)” version from ’78.

Al hasn’t often gone into deep specifics on things he didn’t like about a given song; it’s telling that he specifically mentioned in an interview that he remembered the ending of “Break Away” being a letdown in his mind. 


Title: Re: Murry Wilson And Snow
Post by: CenturyDeprived on December 11, 2019, 02:32:26 PM
After hearing that, the fact that Murry co-wrote this song makes a lot more sense to me now than it ever did before. In this arrangement I hear a lot of the old-fashioned type of popular music influence that I would expect
from Murry. This is like finding a missing puzzle piece 50 years later, and it's fascinating. I really want to hear the rest. Rick Henn was a most talented fellow and I wonder how deep his involvement was.

Also, hearing this big elaborate Outro/ending part of the Snow version of "breakaway", it feels like a great deal of care was put into this being a very epic sounding ending to the song.

And based on that, it almost makes more sense that Al felt that Brian's version that was recorded for the Beach Boys felt a bit muted by comparison. Of course, who knows if Al ever heard this version, but it almost makes more sense from a conceptual standpoint that this version was the baseline version from which the Beach boys would make their own version from. As much as I like the Beach Boys version of the song, this version does seem to have more of an epic ending by comparison.

A bit of a tangent, but I think Al has more of an ear, both purposefully and maybe even semi-subconsciously, for weird unreleased stuff. When the Brian ’74 version of “California Feeling” was finally released on “Made in California” in 2013, it was only then that it was quite obvious that when Al cut his version for his solo record in 2010 (likely recorded several years before that), he had been referencing that ’74 version rather than the “LA (Light Album)” version from ’78.

Al hasn’t often gone into deep specifics on things he didn’t like about a given song; it’s telling that he specifically mentioned in an interview that he remembered the ending of “Break Away” being a letdown in his mind.  


Right. And after long ago hearing about Al’s gripe about Breakaway’s ending, I’ve always tried to ascertain just what exactly he was getting at. Personally, I quite like the end tag of The BBs’ version of that song, but it’s hard to know what was bugging him, specifically. The tag doesn’t IMO sound “underproduced” to my ears, but then again if Al had something in his mind that he was comparing it to (perhaps some earlier Brian productions), maybe it sounds a tad less “worked-on” or something. I dunno.

Further clouding the issue of trying to understand what was bugging Al is that there have been like 32 versions of that song released on various rarities compilations, plus bootlegs, etc, and the various versions sort of blend together in my mind (the tags are pretty similar, as I recall, but some versions definitely have more vocal elements/layers than others). I’d have to think that Al is talking about the final, released single version, but who knows.

I guess Al’s feelings might have been due to the fact that this song, in particular, was meant to be a big attempt at a Brian “comeback” at the time, so it must’ve felt like it was EXTRA important for this song to be the VERY best it could be.

All I know is, upon hearing the clip of Snow’s version on that Youtube link, the end of the song is clearly an epic production, it sounds like they really zeroed in on that end outro part as being a very important element of the song (and for whatever reason - maybe because the outro is a unique-to-the-Snow-version-arrangement - whoever decided on what section of the song to show in that clip - probably someone at Omnivore Records - also chose the end outro). Well, that tactic worked, because my interest in this version of the song has skyrocketed!

My guess is either that the Snow version was recorded 1st, and then Brian tried to make another uniquely “epic” sounding outro to The BBs’ version (which Al maybe felt, by comparison, was a letdown)… or The BBs’ version was recorded 1st, Al (and maybe others) felt the end wasn’t as cool as it could’ve been, and the Snow version was an attempt to "right the ship" for the outro, to make it as "epic" as it should have been the 1st time around.  Maybe we'll get some tracking dates with this set which can help figure out the timeline.

Either that, or it’s just a coincidence that the end of The BBs’ version was a sticking point for Al, and that the Snow version appears to have a uniquely epic outro.
 
Side note: I sure as hell hope there's a vocals-only stem version of Breakaway released on this set. Someone awhile back did a boot of that, and while I recall it being of dodgy audio quality, it was breathtaking, particularly a long extended trippy outro of the backing vocals during the tag. The compiler of that boot might've extended those backing vocals during the tag, possibly there was extra reverb added, and it felt like they went on for days (possibly it was a copy/paste job), but that was just fine with me. It was heavenly.


Title: Re: Murry Wilson And Snow
Post by: WillJC on December 11, 2019, 03:08:06 PM
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Title: Re: Murry Wilson And Snow
Post by: CenturyDeprived on December 11, 2019, 03:18:44 PM

Right. And after long ago hearing about Al’s gripe about Breakaway’s ending, I’ve always tried to ascertain just what exactly he was getting at. Personally, I quite like the end tag of The BBs’ version of that song, but it’s hard to know what was bugging him, specifically. The tag doesn’t IMO sound “underproduced” to my ears, but then again if Al had something in his mind that he was comparing it to (perhaps some earlier Brian productions), maybe it sounds a tad less “worked-on” or something. I dunno.


The single mix does a pretty bizarre thing with the coda where it drops out to nothing but the percussion and Mike and Al's vocals (horns very low), then drops Al out and brings in the "break away" chorus, then brings in the high harmonies, then finally brings the lead back. It's always sounded sloppy to me and completely kills the momentum of the song. Letting all the parts run simultaneously from the start would've been much more effective - I guess they were trying to be subtle but more is more in this case. Alternate mix on Hawthorne does a better job but leaves those crucial "ahhhhhs" buried for some reason.

I wonder if Brian just ran out of steam a bit, and didn't want to work on making things as perfect as he had in years past.


Title: Re: Murry Wilson And Snow
Post by: WillJC on December 11, 2019, 03:26:30 PM
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Title: Re: Murry Wilson And Snow
Post by: Summertime Blooz on December 11, 2019, 04:43:38 PM
I just remembered a Sunshine Pop album I downloaded many years ago from someone's blog (remember those?) by Snow on  the Epic label. It was apparently released in 1968. They have a Spanky & Our Gang type sound to my ears; typical stuff for their time. On the cover are pictured four guys and a gal. I don't have all the tracks but what I still have sounds like it very well could be the same group even though it's produced in a much more rock style. Listen and see what you think.

Snow- Bab's Song
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9MDdb_pddL4&list=PLGkeRiGAYgaueSCzSBkhyqBjYRJWCxPnF&index=4


Title: Re: Murry Wilson And Snow
Post by: “Big Daddy” on December 16, 2019, 01:23:27 PM
The Snow recording of “Break Away” has debuted on therecoup.com: https://therecoup.com/2019/12/16/exclusive-first-listen-murry-wilson-snow-break-away/?fbclid=IwAR1Z220zC4t9AcPZuseCsUnapNkzqQiTrukhPYQ0QYYhFmGiOHoHQngWL-w


Title: Re: Murry Wilson And Snow
Post by: SBonilla on December 16, 2019, 03:36:59 PM
The Snow recording of “Break Away” has debuted on therecoup.com: https://therecoup.com/2019/12/16/exclusive-first-listen-murry-wilson-snow-break-away/?fbclid=IwAR1Z220zC4t9AcPZuseCsUnapNkzqQiTrukhPYQ0QYYhFmGiOHoHQngWL-w

Rick Henn was no Al Capps. That's all I can say.


Title: Re: Murry Wilson And Snow
Post by: WillJC on December 16, 2019, 03:58:25 PM
The Snow recording of “Break Away” has debuted on therecoup.com: https://therecoup.com/2019/12/16/exclusive-first-listen-murry-wilson-snow-break-away/?fbclid=IwAR1Z220zC4t9AcPZuseCsUnapNkzqQiTrukhPYQ0QYYhFmGiOHoHQngWL-w

The horn break in this is absolutely hilarious


Title: Re: Murry Wilson And Snow
Post by: ForHerCryingSoul on December 16, 2019, 05:00:22 PM
Is it bad that I now prefer this arrangement to the Beach Boys tune? The Beach Boys tune now sounds half-baked to me compared to this lush arrangement.


Title: Re: Murry Wilson And Snow
Post by: WillJC on December 16, 2019, 05:37:37 PM
Is it bad that I now prefer this arrangement to the Beach Boys tune? The Beach Boys tune now sounds half-baked to me compared to this lush arrangement.

Yes, very bad.


Title: Re: Murry Wilson And Snow
Post by: CenturyDeprived on December 16, 2019, 06:56:30 PM
The Snow recording of “Break Away” has debuted on therecoup.com: https://therecoup.com/2019/12/16/exclusive-first-listen-murry-wilson-snow-break-away/?fbclid=IwAR1Z220zC4t9AcPZuseCsUnapNkzqQiTrukhPYQ0QYYhFmGiOHoHQngWL-w

Rick Henn was no Al Capps. That's all I can say.

How has nobody realized how funny it is that a Sunray brought Snow to Murry? Nothing will melt snow faster than a sunray.


Title: Re: Murry Wilson And Snow
Post by: CenturyDeprived on December 16, 2019, 06:59:11 PM
The Snow recording of “Break Away” has debuted on therecoup.com: https://therecoup.com/2019/12/16/exclusive-first-listen-murry-wilson-snow-break-away/?fbclid=IwAR1Z220zC4t9AcPZuseCsUnapNkzqQiTrukhPYQ0QYYhFmGiOHoHQngWL-w

The horn break in this is absolutely hilarious

It's a little hokey, but of its time and not too out of place putting it in the context of the late 1960s. Sounds like an intro to a detective show from this era.

Does anyone else hear a flanging type sound in the outro, around 2:45 until the end? Sounds to my ears very much like a similar effect on the outro of Deep Purple from Adult/Child.


Title: Re: Murry Wilson And Snow
Post by: guitarfool2002 on December 16, 2019, 07:04:15 PM
I listened. My sideburns grew 2 inches longer into mutton chops, my hair grew long and straight and now hangs past my shoulders, my regular shirt turned into a leather fringe vest and my pants into Levis bellbottoms with patches on them, and a pukka shell necklace appeared around my neck. Not to mention the bottle of Hai Karate that I found in the pocket of the Levis.

Man, that track is something. If I were spinning it on vinyl I may have though the record was skipping during the outro/fade.


Title: Re: Murry Wilson And Snow
Post by: Matt Bielewicz on December 17, 2019, 04:49:31 AM
It doesn't work for me. I don't hear more epic at all... I just hear more... *fussy*.

Sometimes a simple approach is the best. More complex music (crazy time signature shifts, more key changes etc) doesn't necessarily improve the overall quality.

When he's been firing on all cylinders, Brian's great skill (to me, anyway) has been to pack what is oftentimes great and musically pleasing complexity into an overall package that sounds simple. For examples, consider I Get Around, the original SMiLE version of Wonderful, and Sunflower's This Whole World.

To me, by contrast, this version of Breakaway is trying FAR too hard.

I get this a lot. Apart from the cantina section itself, I STILL don't get what people see in the cantina version of H&V. To me the later single version is simultaneously more interesting, more radically produced and edited, and way better performed. But for over 20 years, I've been reading people saying that the Cantina one must be the Holy Grail, more epic, more interesting, bigger, better etc... because it was recorded during the SMiLE Sessions... as if the August single must already be the burnt-out work of a has-been.

Anyways... you know what they say about opinions...!

And of course, all of the above is just MY opinion. And everyone else who prefers this version of Breakaway, I'm sincerely glad you like it.


Title: Re: Murry Wilson And Snow
Post by: twentytwenty on December 17, 2019, 06:40:17 AM
Yeah, Brians version blows this out of the water


Title: Re: Murry Wilson And Snow
Post by: c-man on December 17, 2019, 06:52:54 AM
Good God - this sounds like a horrible parody, specifically designed to sound horrible! IMHO


Title: Re: Murry Wilson And Snow
Post by: Peadar 'Big Dinner' O'Driscoll on December 17, 2019, 06:59:38 AM
I like it even though it's actually missing some of my favourite parts from the Beach Boys version like...oh boy you jump for joy or the the way the verses end. It's certainly not better but interesting nonetheless.


Title: Re: Murry Wilson And Snow
Post by: SBonilla on December 17, 2019, 07:17:54 AM
Eek, that bombastic arrangement! Murry's surrogate son just didn't have it.


Title: Re: Murry Wilson And Snow
Post by: HeyJude on December 17, 2019, 07:28:24 AM
This is the textbook definition of "curio." I can't claim this stuff sounds good in any way. Very interesting though. 

I know a few people have fetishized Murry material and this sort of era off-shoot material. I certainly find the *story* of it fascinating. Sort of like reading about Jan & Dean; the story is tantalizing and often far more interesting than the actual music.

This version of "Break Away" is a mess; I certainly hope that *isn't* the type of ending Al Jardine was clamoring for when he indicated disappointment with the BB arrangement. I'll take the ending of the BBs version of "Break Away" any day over this. I'll take the BB version with everything mixed out but drums and bass.

"Break Away" is a good song; it doesn't need to be all mucked up like this.

But, I'm all for stuff like this making it out for release.

I'd say this is perhaps a model they could use to put that Don Goldberg stuff out, which while not A+ quality, is a million times more enjoyable than this "Snow" stuff.


Title: Re: Murry Wilson And Snow
Post by: Mr. Tiger on December 17, 2019, 08:41:29 AM
Even though the vocals are inferior and the overall production doesn't cohere in the way that the BB version does, I think I prefer the Snow version myself. Breakaway has never been a particular favorite of mine, and this version has some chord changes that I find more interesting... I don't have any of the common hangups about the soft pop scene either. It's one of my favorite genres.


Title: Re: Murry Wilson And Snow
Post by: Summertime Blooz on December 17, 2019, 09:36:39 AM
This does not flow as a song; very disjointed. It's very pleasant sounding though quite bizarre.


Title: Re: Murry Wilson And Snow
Post by: Mr. Tiger on December 17, 2019, 10:09:47 AM
Yes, there is a weird sub-genre of "soft" yet somewhat bizarrely arranged vocal pop that can have a kind of appeal for some... The first LP by a group called the Inner Dialogue is probably a good example of this.


Title: Re: Murry Wilson And Snow
Post by: Don Malcolm on December 17, 2019, 03:51:47 PM
Sounds like this incarnation of Snow was the one with the female vocalist, a move that someone at Epic imposed on the band in the final stages of their LP project when the record company felt that the "Billy Jones" tune was the best bet for a hit but that none of the guys in the band could sing in a "suitable" style.

There were a couple dozen bands like Snow in 1967-68, all coiled up and ready to conquer the world with post-Pepper psychedelia and/or harmony pop: they usually didn't try to combine the two on a single record (or a single song). Most of them wound up aligned with the SF strain, with one or two (think The Wizards From Kansas) actually outdoing the folks they were imitating.

Snow's '68 LP shows that you can be 100% schizoid while simultaneously being eclectic. They weren't quite good enough at either genre to put any of them over, though they made some valiant efforts. On the LP, three songs stand out. First, "Golden Oldie Show," with a bit of BB harmony tossed into a flower power melody that wafts over a pretty kickass guitar track--with one couplet that presciently summed up the way of things then and now: "The newsman just came on at four/To tell about a brand new war." Second: "Song of the Siren", which doesn't quite wed together BBs harmony with grunge-ass psychedelica. Third: the unclassifiable "Caterpillar," which is probably the closest channeling of Brian Wilson and Syd Barrett in their wild, weird and fragile 1967 states. Snow's harder-edged material seems to come from baked-in listening to "The Piper at the Gates of Dawn," particularly the "space guitar tracks...but the lyrics to "Caterpillar" stem from Syd's "acid folk" tunes on that same LP.

'Tis strange, to be sure. But those were strange times, to be sure. I can hear what Henn might have heard in their voices, though he took it the wrong way. It would've been a helluva lot more interesting if Snow had collided with Brian instead, but people were pretty uptight at that point about letting Brian work with other bands.


Title: Re: Murry Wilson And Snow
Post by: CenturyDeprived on December 17, 2019, 08:07:21 PM
Sounds like this incarnation of Snow was the one with the female vocalist, a move that someone at Epic imposed on the band in the final stages of their LP project when the record company felt that the "Billy Jones" tune was the best bet for a hit but that none of the guys in the band could sing in a "suitable" style.

There were a couple dozen bands like Snow in 1967-68, all coiled up and ready to conquer the world with post-Pepper psychedelia and/or harmony pop: they usually didn't try to combine the two on a single record (or a single song). Most of them wound up aligned with the SF strain, with one or two (think The Wizards From Kansas) actually outdoing the folks they were imitating.

Snow's '68 LP shows that you can be 100% schizoid while simultaneously being eclectic. They weren't quite good enough at either genre to put any of them over, though they made some valiant efforts. On the LP, three songs stand out. First, "Golden Oldie Show," with a bit of BB harmony tossed into a flower power melody that wafts over a pretty kickass guitar track--with one couplet that presciently summed up the way of things then and now: "The newsman just came on at four/To tell about a brand new war." Second: "Song of the Siren", which doesn't quite wed together BBs harmony with grunge-ass psychedelica. Third: the unclassifiable "Caterpillar," which is probably the closest channeling of Brian Wilson and Syd Barrett in their wild, weird and fragile 1967 states. Snow's harder-edged material seems to come from baked-in listening to "The Piper at the Gates of Dawn," particularly the "space guitar tracks...but the lyrics to "Caterpillar" stem from Syd's "acid folk" tunes on that same LP.

'Tis strange, to be sure. But those were strange times, to be sure. I can hear what Henn might have heard in their voices, though he took it the wrong way. It would've been a helluva lot more interesting if Snow had collided with Brian instead, but people were pretty uptight at that point about letting Brian work with other bands.

That's some fascinating history, I really appreciate that post!

Interesting to think of this version of the song as a surrogate Brian directing yet another surrogate Brian to collaborate with a different band. It's kind a like the movie Multiplicity - each copy of a copy isn't as good as the one that came before. Still I dig this version because it's pretty fascinating and also interestingly good in its own way.


Title: Re: Murry Wilson And Snow
Post by: William Bowe on December 17, 2019, 08:21:37 PM
Syd Barrett talk sounds a bit fanciful from what I'm hearing (which admittedly isn't all of it). I suggest the principal influence here is Hair (as in the musical).

ETA: I'm just going off the Murry Wilson stuff here, so perhaps the material cited by Don Malcolm is a different story.


Title: Re: Murry Wilson And Snow
Post by: hideyotsuburaya on December 18, 2019, 11:11:43 AM
here're 4 recent facebook comments about Snow, made by Rick Henn:

"Murry and the BBs manager put us together. One of the BBs who shall remain nameless, tried to block Souful from ever being released...Alan Boyd and Mark Linett made it happen."

and

"….after the Sunrays disbanded I went back to music school in the later part of the late 60's. Every time Murry got the urge to write songs and get back into the studio, he would graciously call me to refine the tunes and write the charts. There were a lot of sessions at Gold Star and Sunset Sound all the way up until his death. He could have hired anyone he wanted (if they'd work with him), but he stayed loyal to me knowing the arranging skills I was learning could be experimented with and gave me the opportunity to write and work with the best studio players in LA."

and

"No, this Snow was from Omaha, Nebraska. I wrote the arrangements on my tunes and used Wrecking Crew players and then we did vocals if I remember correctly, at Sunset Sound and Brian Wilson's Bellagio home studio. We also recorded a track at Goldstar on a tune called Run River Run..."

and

"thanks for the post. I hadn't heard about this EP. When I went to the Omnivore Recordings website, http://omnivorerecordings.com/shop/break-away-ep/ I did see that two of my songs, "Wilderness" and "Bless Me" are part of it. The copy on the site describing the EP has a few mistakes regarding the group Snow, but it's still great that someone cared enough to release it so many years later."


Title: Re: Murry Wilson And Snow
Post by: Mr. Tiger on December 18, 2019, 02:19:11 PM
here're 4 recent facebook comments about Snow, made by Rick Henn:
"Murry and the BBs manager put us together. One of the BBs who shall remain nameless, tried to block Souful from ever being released...Alan Boyd and Mark Linett made it happen."

I recall hearing somewhere that this was Carl, because of the vocal flub he made toward the end of the song (shunshine).




Title: Re: Murry Wilson And Snow
Post by: Don Malcolm on December 18, 2019, 02:42:10 PM
Syd Barrett talk sounds a bit fanciful from what I'm hearing (which admittedly isn't all of it). I suggest the principal influence here is Hair (as in the musical).

ETA: I'm just going off the Murry Wilson stuff here, so perhaps the material cited by Don Malcolm is a different story.

William--yes, I'm talking about the material specific to the SNOW Epic LP released in '68, and NOT their version of "Break Away." I think it's possible that Rick Henn never heard that LP: the material I was describing in that manner very likely would have put him off. It's more likely he heard the "Billy Jones" track, which was sort like Spanky and Our Gang meets the Mamas & Papas with C-grade material. That's clearly the direction that the Henn-Murry-Snow sessions took.

Here's a YouTube link to Snow's "Caterpillar," from their eponymous LP. It was also (IIRC) the B-side to "Billy Jones," which makes for the type of 45 release that could only happen in those times. See if you get the Syd vibe from this song...a truly odd "artyfact" of its time!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9cgAXd9zRM


Title: Re: Murry Wilson And Snow
Post by: “Big Daddy” on December 18, 2019, 03:52:20 PM
And now Goldmine premieres Snow’s take on “We’re Together Again”… https://www.goldminemag.com/news/goldmine-premieres-music-from-murry-wilson-snows-breakaway-ep


Title: Re: Murry Wilson And Snow
Post by: B.E. on December 18, 2019, 03:59:30 PM
And now Goldmine premieres Snow’s take on “We’re Together Again”… https://www.goldminemag.com/news/goldmine-premieres-music-from-murry-wilson-snows-breakaway-ep

Well, that's about 100x more enjoyable than "Break Away". Nice version.


Title: Re: Murry Wilson And Snow
Post by: RangeRoverA1 on December 18, 2019, 07:04:38 PM
I just remembered a Sunshine Pop album I downloaded many years ago from someone's blog (remember those?) by Snow on  the Epic label. It was apparently released in 1968.
Yes, I make sure to frequent blogs with downloadable music. Me & you both. :) They STILL exist. ;)

But, I downloaded this Snow band 1968 album at really random in music file-sharing site in 2012-13. Who knew Murry will be associated with this precise band I randomly discovered & people will discuss this obscure band few years later! Isn't it fantastic? I could've typed the other band name but I typed Snow back then! & actually, the results with "snow" brought several such band names, with country origin info in brackets & I clicked "Snow (US)"! Wow, right? :3d Talk about freaky coincidence. I've been ahead of time. :3d

It's indeed saying "1968", as krabklaw mentioned. It's good album. It's in Mamas & Papas, Spanky/Gang vein, as Don Malcolm stated but I shall disagree - it's miles better than either. I like - very - Cass' voice but otherwise find M&P pedestrian dull band with dull music. Ditto Spanky/Gang.

People here say they didn't like this "Break Away" but did anybody see it's short? 53 seconds, i.e. it's preview. Is it possible to definitively say it's nothing special when we didn't yet hear the full song? It can't be just 53 seconds, can it? Don't you think it's best to wait with final judgment till you hear the full song?

HeyJude, Don Goldberg stuff maybe thousand times better but you surely don't mean the "Out In The Country" with Don's lead, do you? The guy, obviously, can't sing, he's mediocre at best.
At least in "Break Away", we hear A quality vocals.

Yes, Don Malcolm, I knew waaay before the "Billy Jones Gone" song (as per above paragraphs); the female singer sounds *precisely* like female singer in BA preview snippet. I'd bet Murry collab'ed with *this precise* Snow band. She's got very good voice & harmonies sound very professional. Definitely not inferior than Mamas & Papas & similar sunshine pop vocal bands.
I liked the preview, can't wait to hear the full song! :D


Title: Re: Murry Wilson And Snow
Post by: Jay on December 18, 2019, 11:16:05 PM
Something tells me that if The Beach Boys had never released Breakaway, this version would have been a big hit. Not that I like it that much, but it has that "sunshine pop" sound that seemed to be big for a while, like Spanky And Our Gang, or The Seekers("Georgie Girl").


Title: Re: Murry Wilson And Snow
Post by: Rocker on December 19, 2019, 02:04:48 AM
Was Rick Henn ever interviewed in depth about how Murry worked? That woud be quite interesting to compare with what we know about his sons.


Title: Re: Murry Wilson And Snow
Post by: UEF on December 19, 2019, 05:20:32 AM
If the BBs version has the better verse, this has the better chorus


Title: Re: Murry Wilson And Snow
Post by: SBonilla on December 19, 2019, 05:31:00 AM
And now Goldmine premieres Snow’s take on “We’re Together Again”… https://www.goldminemag.com/news/goldmine-premieres-music-from-murry-wilson-snows-breakaway-ep

What did Ron Wilson contribute to We're Together Again? Words? Music? Both?


Title: Re: Murry Wilson And Snow
Post by: Summertime Blooz on December 19, 2019, 08:04:10 AM
And now Goldmine premieres Snow’s take on “We’re Together Again”… https://www.goldminemag.com/news/goldmine-premieres-music-from-murry-wilson-snows-breakaway-ep

Thanks for posting that link. Too bad this song is repetitive to the point of self-parody, half-baked and tedious. Breakaway was weird and kind of cool in it's way, but this song has none of that. It goes to show that the Beach Boys magic voices could turn even a nothing song like this into something worth listening to.


Title: Re: Murry Wilson And Snow
Post by: CenturyDeprived on December 19, 2019, 09:04:51 AM
And now Goldmine premieres Snow’s take on “We’re Together Again”… https://www.goldminemag.com/news/goldmine-premieres-music-from-murry-wilson-snows-breakaway-ep

Thanks for posting that link. Too bad this song is repetitive to the point of self-parody, half-baked and tedious. Breakaway was weird and kind of cool in it's way, but this song has none of that. It goes to show that the Beach Boys magic voices could turn even a nothing song like this into something worth listening to.

I agree The BBs' version somehow keeps the listener more engaged and less aware of the repetitious vocals, probably just because The BBs' vocals are better than Snow's. And I guess us nerds get an extra level of enjoyment listening to the little details in the vocals. Brian's slightly broken, longingly-sung vocals elevate the song tremendously.

I suppose "Were Together Again" might have a set of words (the title) that is sung the most most repetitious amount of times for the run time of the song, in the entire band's catalog, at least in terms of consecutively-sung lyrics sun repeatedly in a row. Or maybe it's neck and neck with "I Get Around", "Help Me, Rhonda" and "Barbara Ann". Maybe this one seems a bit unintentionally funnier because it keeps changing key over and over again near the end, almost like they're trying to up the ante one more time, then one more time, then one more time... I kinda feel a similar way about the bridge (?) of Adult/Child's "I'm Trying to Say" with the "baseball's on" lyric.

Even though I like the song, it almost feels like they're going for a "Too Many Cooks" theme song type of thing, where the idea is hammered into the head of the viewer a comically large number of times.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrGrOK8oZG8

I wonder if this Ron Wilson fellow was buddies with Snow, and if they brought him into the BBs' fold. Has that story ever been known, or is Ron Wilson's association with the band still a mystery?




Title: Re: Murry Wilson And Snow
Post by: c-man on December 19, 2019, 11:01:43 AM
Presumably, that Ron Wilson is the same Ron Wilson for whom Brian produced a single (the original "I'll Keep On Loving You" b/w a version of "As Tears Go By") in '68.


Title: Re: Murry Wilson And Snow
Post by: CenturyDeprived on December 19, 2019, 11:58:40 AM
Presumably, that Ron Wilson is the same Ron Wilson for whom Brian produced a single (the original "I'll Keep On Loving You" b/w a version of "As Tears Go By") in '68.

Interesting, c-man. I did not know that.

I have to think there must've been some Wilson name jokes told at the time between those guys.


Title: Re: Murry Wilson And Snow
Post by: RangeRoverA1 on December 19, 2019, 08:27:25 PM
Hm, today fellow Smiley Smiler said in message full "Break Away" is available in random "recoup" site (does it even make sense?). Nobody told about it when reading my reply in this thread. You'd think BBs fans would help the other BBs fan... Everybody who'd written here kept shut without pointing the link to this fan. Jolly good. But, that weird link doesn't even give access. Why not share entire song in youtube? It's the new standard now to share preview in youtube & full song in...random obscure site? Funny, nobody's even puzzled by it.
Been told it'll be in youtube at Friday. 1st they share it in obscure site, then jump to youtube. Does this jumping/ transition even make ANY sense? Again, what's difficult to share full song in youtube *at the beginning*? Preview & full "Break Away" in *single* place - youtube. Or, immediately share full song without preview. *Extremely* puzzling.


Title: Re: Murry Wilson And Snow
Post by: Junkstar on December 20, 2019, 06:39:52 AM
Omnivore chose to publish both Breakaway and We're Together Again before release (via private link) so music magazines/blogs could promote the release. This is fairly normal now.


Title: Re: Murry Wilson And Snow
Post by: “Big Daddy” on December 21, 2019, 08:57:57 AM
"thanks for the post. I hadn't heard about this EP. When I went to the Omnivore Recordings website, http://omnivorerecordings.com/shop/break-away-ep/ I did see that two of my songs, "Wilderness" and "Bless Me" are part of it. The copy on the site describing the EP has a few mistakes regarding the group Snow, but it's still great that someone cared enough to release it so many years later."

Omnivore should have talked to Rick! Would have gotten the info they lacked on these tracks. They could have done some digging on the copyright.gov website, too:

(https://i.imgur.com/ZI9rg6j.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/waNMKhJ.jpg)


Title: Re: Murry Wilson And Snow
Post by: SBonilla on December 21, 2019, 09:19:30 AM
"thanks for the post. I hadn't heard about this EP. When I went to the Omnivore Recordings website, http://omnivorerecordings.com/shop/break-away-ep/ I did see that two of my songs, "Wilderness" and "Bless Me" are part of it. The copy on the site describing the EP has a few mistakes regarding the group Snow, but it's still great that someone cared enough to release it so many years later."

Omnivore should have talked to Rick! Would have gotten the info they lacked on these tracks. They could have done some digging on the copyright.gov website, too:

(https://i.imgur.com/ZI9rg6j.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/waNMKhJ.jpg)

So, Rick Henn wrote the words and music. Don Ralke was the copyright claimant. Interesting.


Title: Re: Murry Wilson And Snow
Post by: “Big Daddy” on December 21, 2019, 09:35:42 AM
Also interesting to see the initial copyright record for “Break Away” give sole writing credit to Reggie Dunbar (as an alias for Brian!) and the one for “We’re Together Again” giving sole writing credit to Ron Wilson.

(https://i.imgur.com/K6dbRlh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Y0WCz57.jpg)

A later copyright record for “Break Away” revises the credit to Brian (without alias).

(https://i.imgur.com/3RDj1sv.jpg)


Title: Re: Murry Wilson And Snow
Post by: the recoup on December 23, 2019, 01:23:18 PM
Hm, today fellow Smiley Smiler said in message full "Break Away" is available in random "recoup" site (does it even make sense?). Nobody told about it when reading my reply in this thread. You'd think BBs fans would help the other BBs fan... Everybody who'd written here kept shut without pointing the link to this fan. Jolly good. But, that weird link doesn't even give access. Why not share entire song in youtube? It's the new standard now to share preview in youtube & full song in...random obscure site? Funny, nobody's even puzzled by it.
Been told it'll be in youtube at Friday. 1st they share it in obscure site, then jump to youtube. Does this jumping/ transition even make ANY sense? Again, what's difficult to share full song in youtube *at the beginning*? Preview & full "Break Away" in *single* place - youtube. Or, immediately share full song without preview. *Extremely* puzzling.

Hi there--

My name's Joseph Kyle, and that's my website you're referring to.  8)

This excerpt was done as a courtesy to me from Omnivore. I know I'm not a huge "name" website, but I am a HUGE Beach Boys fan. Spend some time on my site and you''ll see. I took it on because as a fan I want to share this with the world, and also because I debuted to great effect the George Faulkner Sings Murry Wilson single a few weeks before its release.

Part of the reason smaller sites get to premiere such things is to help the smaller site be not so small, and in that regard, this Murry song premiere has done quite well. It was an honor to be asked, and I'm happy to have shared such a curiosity to the world. I would never share an mp3 because that would get in the way of sales and I'm quite happy with the SoundCloud link. you should be able to purchase it now with no problems from your favorite digital retailer.

There's nothing puzzling about my love for the Beach Boys, though--ever since I was a three year old when Endless Summer came out and I discovered my brother's 8-track of it, it's been nothing but love love love from me.  (Don't get me started about how upset I was when Brian's "autobiography" came out and they stuck it to the fans with the "autograph sessions," though.)

Thank you for reading and I hope you visit us again. I'm sure to have new BB material covered when it appears.  (Been. checking this and other forums in regards to the copyright extension news--or lack thereof.)

I hope that this helps to explain a little more.  
 



Title: Re: Murry Wilson And Snow
Post by: Summertime Blooz on December 23, 2019, 04:46:11 PM
I didn't see this link posted for the 'Bless Me' song. It's pretty groovy Sunshine Pop.

Bless Me:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruyXkv0B8Nw

Oh! 'Wilderness' is on Youtube too:

Wilderness:   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2t8mc5pifMs

These are both some pretty wild 60s relics for sure.


Title: Re: Murry Wilson And Snow
Post by: CenturyDeprived on December 23, 2019, 05:05:31 PM
Also interesting to see the initial copyright record for “Break Away” give sole writing credit to Reggie Dunbar (as an alias for Brian!) and the one for “We’re Together Again” giving sole writing credit to Ron Wilson.

(https://i.imgur.com/K6dbRlh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Y0WCz57.jpg)

A later copyright record for “Break Away” revises the credit to Brian (without alias).

(https://i.imgur.com/3RDj1sv.jpg)

Fascinating.  Is this "Bri-Mur" publishing company just for this one song, or was that use for any other songs they wrote together?

The first thing I thought of was how similar that name was to the more current "BriMel" Records.


Title: Re: Murry Wilson And Snow
Post by: SBonilla on December 23, 2019, 05:34:04 PM
Also interesting to see the initial copyright record for “Break Away” give sole writing credit to Reggie Dunbar (as an alias for Brian!) and the one for “We’re Together Again” giving sole writing credit to Ron Wilson.

(https://i.imgur.com/K6dbRlh.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Y0WCz57.jpg)

A later copyright record for “Break Away” revises the credit to Brian (without alias).

(https://i.imgur.com/3RDj1sv.jpg)
So, was We're Together Again a Ron Wilson tune, originally? Did Brian co-compose it and was his name ever added to the copyright? Does anyone know  who contributed what to the song?



Title: Re: Murry Wilson And Snow
Post by: “Big Daddy” on December 23, 2019, 06:44:59 PM
So, was We're Together Again a Ron Wilson tune, originally? Did Brian co-compose it and was his name ever added to the copyright? Does anyone know  who contributed what to the song?

All of the records I can see on copyright.gov only mention Ron. Also, the BMI website repertoire.bmi.com gives sole writing credit to Ron, as does the Universal Music Publishing Group website (umusicpub.com).


Title: Re: Murry Wilson And Snow
Post by: “Big Daddy” on December 23, 2019, 07:21:23 PM
Fascinating.  Is this "Bri-Mur" publishing company just for this one song, or was that use for any other songs they wrote together?

Via https://vcc.copyright.gov/browse:

COOL, COOL WATER; m Brian Wilson. 2 p. © Bri-Mur Pub. Co.; 22May69; EU116895.

SOULFUL OLD MAN SUNSHINE; w & m Rick Henn & Brian Wilson. 2 p. © Bri-Mur Pub. Co. & Signature Music; 28Oct70; EU214206.

RUN, RIVER, RUN; w & m Bill Granstaff. 2 p. © Bri-Mur Pub. Co.; 28Oct70; EU214207.

WIND RIDER; w & m Bill Granstaff. 2 p. © Bri-Mur Pub. Co.; 31Dec70; EU223513.

IT'S A NEW DAY; w & m Dennis Wilson, Daryl Dragon & Stanley Shapiro. 2 p. © Bri-Mur Pub. Co.; 12Aug71; EU273319.

BEHOLD THE NIGHT; w & m Dennis Wilson & Daryl Dragon. 1 p. © Bri-Mur Pub. Co.; 12Aug71; EU273320.

THE COLONEL'S SONG; w & m Murry Wilson. 2 p. © Bri-Mur Pub. Co.; 22Sep72; EU357835.

TAKE BACK THE TIME; w & m Murry Wilson. 2 p. © Bri-Mur Pub. Co.; 22Nov72; EU371121.

SHYIN' AWAY; w Dianne Rovell & Marilyn Wilson, w & m David Sandler. 2 p. © Bri-Mur Pub. Co.; 4Jun73; EU410623.

Getting off-topic, but does anybody happen to know who this Bill Granstaff fellow is who had the pleasure of having (at least) two songs published by Bri-Mur? (One copyrighted on the same day as “Soulful Old Man Sunshine”?)


Title: Re: Murry Wilson And Snow
Post by: juggler on December 23, 2019, 07:41:33 PM
I believe that at one time at least, Bri-Mur was also publisher of "It's Like Heaven" (Brian, Diane Rovell & Rocky Pamplin; versions by American Spring & Shaun Cassidy).


Title: Re: Murry Wilson And Snow
Post by: SBonilla on December 24, 2019, 06:14:00 AM
Fascinating.  Is this "Bri-Mur" publishing company just for this one song, or was that use for any other songs they wrote together?

Via https://vcc.copyright.gov/browse:

IT'S A NEW DAY; w & m Dennis Wilson, Daryl Dragon & Stanley Shapiro. 2 p. © Bri-Mur Pub. Co.; 12Aug71; EU273319.


Maybe it was an oversight, but because (Wouldn't It Be Nice) To Live Again wasn't copyrighted with Stanley Shapiro's name on it (was it ever copyrighted?), he was able to stake his own claim for his contribution to the song. There was some quiet behind the scenes scrambling to secure his rights prior to its release.


Title: Re: Murry Wilson And Snow
Post by: SBonilla on December 24, 2019, 06:24:17 AM
Fascinating.  Is this "Bri-Mur" publishing company just for this one song, or was that use for any other songs they wrote together?

Via https://vcc.copyright.gov/browse:


RUN, RIVER, RUN; w & m Bill Granstaff. 2 p. © Bri-Mur Pub. Co.; 28Oct70; EU214207.

WIND RIDER; w & m Bill Granstaff. 2 p. © Bri-Mur Pub. Co.; 31Dec70; EU223513.

Getting off-topic, but does anybody happen to know who this Bill Granstaff fellow is who had the pleasure of having (at least) two songs published by Bri-Mur? (One copyrighted on the same day as “Soulful Old Man Sunshine”?)

Bill Granstaff *might be* William E Granstaff b 1950 in Santa Anna, CA.


Title: Re: Murry Wilson And Snow
Post by: Bicyclerider on December 24, 2019, 02:57:03 PM
I didn't see this link posted for the 'Bless Me' song. It's pretty groovy Sunshine Pop.

Bless Me:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ruyXkv0B8Nw

Oh! 'Wilderness' is on Youtube too:

Wilderness:   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2t8mc5pifMs

These are both some pretty wild 60s relics for sure.

Bless me sounds very similar to Soulful Old Man Sunshine in style and instrumentation - and Wilderness a bit too.


Title: Re: Murry Wilson And Snow
Post by: Needleinthehay on December 24, 2019, 08:30:45 PM
Slightly off topic:
I was listening to this on apple music and it had a link to The Many Moods Of Murry Wilson which I'd never listened to before, so i listened and the whole thing is instrumental? I always assumed it was him singing on it...was he not a singer? You'd think he'd be a good singer, just genetically since this 3 kids were all incredible singers...

Also, did he expect the Many Moods album to sell? An instrumental album? I know tastes were different back then but, still...


Title: Re: Murry Wilson And Snow
Post by: hapman on December 24, 2019, 09:13:46 PM
Slightly off topic:
I was listening to this on apple music and it had a link to The Many Moods Of Murry Wilson which I'd never listened to before, so i listened and the whole thing is instrumental? I always assumed it was him singing on it...was he not a singer? You'd think he'd be a good singer, just genetically since this 3 kids were all incredible singers...

Also, did he expect the Many Moods album to sell? An instrumental album? I know tastes were different back then but, still...


The only recorded example of Murry singing that I know of is the infamous Help Me Rhonda vocal session, and judging by that, it's a good thing he made an instrumental album. (Allegedly, he contributed some backing vocals on Friends, but I don't really hear them.)
Many Moods could have sold - even in the heady days of 1967 there was a market for easy listening music, since older people were buying records too. Maybe it just didn't sell because it's not a very good record.


Title: Re: Murry Wilson And Snow
Post by: c-man on December 25, 2019, 12:02:44 AM

The only recorded example of Murry singing that I know of is the infamous Help Me Rhonda vocal session, and judging by that, it's a good thing he made an instrumental album. (Allegedly, he contributed some backing vocals on Friends, but I don't really hear them.)

You can hear the deep, low note on "Be Here In The Morning", right?  "...and make my life WHOLE"? That's Murry.  :)


Title: Re: Murry Wilson And Snow
Post by: Matt H on December 25, 2019, 12:26:26 AM
On the Sunrays box set vintage rays, it has the colonels song on it, which was a jingle he wrote for Kentucky Fried Chicken with him singing, here is a link:

https://youtu.be/Jsio42ZOYnI