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Smiley Smile Stuff => General On Topic Discussions => Topic started by: aeijtzsche on December 03, 2019, 10:32:42 AM



Title: Sloop John B guitars ~ isolation video
Post by: aeijtzsche on December 03, 2019, 10:32:42 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_Q0iM4iCyg&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_Q0iM4iCyg&feature=youtu.be)

Here's another one.  This one with a little more context and explanation.

For those of you who missed the don't talk video, what I'm doing is recording a painstakingly accurate transcription of various parts on Beach Boys records so we can hear them isolated from their three track embedded homes.  More than a cover, these are alternate reality re-enactments.

Let me know what you think, and remember I take requests.


Title: Re: Sloop John B guitars ~ isolation video
Post by: JK on December 03, 2019, 01:49:43 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_Q0iM4iCyg&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_Q0iM4iCyg&feature=youtu.be)

Here's another one.  This one with a little more context and explanation.

For those of you who missed the don't talk video, what I'm doing is recording a painstakingly accurate transcription of various parts on Beach Boys records so we can hear them isolated from their three track embedded homes.  More than a cover, these are alternate reality re-enactments.

Let me know what you think, and remember I take requests.

It's beautiful! And it really is a revelation--there's no other word for it. I must say the additional context and depth help it along nicely.

What a superb series this has turned out to be, even at this stage. Thank you, aeijtzsche.


Title: Re: Sloop John B guitars ~ isolation video
Post by: aeijtzsche on December 03, 2019, 02:01:59 PM
You're welcome, and thank you.  I mean it's not as interesting as Brian recommending a pie, but I do my best.

Next up will be This Whole World; look for it soon.  You'll be shocked.


Title: Re: Sloop John B guitars ~ isolation video
Post by: JK on December 03, 2019, 02:17:25 PM
I mean it's not as interesting as Brian recommending a pie, but I do my best.

 :lol


Title: Re: Sloop John B guitars ~ isolation video
Post by: guitarfool2002 on December 03, 2019, 02:28:34 PM
Stellar work.


Title: Re: Sloop John B guitars ~ isolation video
Post by: Don Malcolm on December 03, 2019, 03:26:02 PM
Wonderful to have it all built up part by part, with context beyond what we'd get from listening to the UM tracks.

One follow-up for this might be to cover the rest of the production history and spell out what all was added when Brian returned to the track months later. That would add some closure to the process with value added to the presentation of the guitar parts (one of which, of course, was an addition at the later session).

I think I speak for many in saying that we can hardly wait for This Whole World! Something else to consider is a kind of compendium of unusual instruments and instrument combinations in a kind of chronology of how Brian kept upping the ante for the Wrecking Crew...


Title: Re: Sloop John B guitars ~ isolation video
Post by: Rocker on December 04, 2019, 01:42:12 AM
Wonderful! I always wanted to hear just the guitar parts of this track. What a cool sound!


Title: Re: Sloop John B guitars ~ isolation video
Post by: JK on December 04, 2019, 05:26:32 AM
Wonderful! I always wanted to hear just the guitar parts of this track. What a cool sound!

Agreed!

"Kinda boring", she says... No way!!!

If the description and demonstration of the individual parts are revelatory (and once again accessible to anyone with a love of music), the last 3-plus minutes are sheer heaven!


Title: Re: Sloop John B guitars ~ isolation video
Post by: Junkstar on December 04, 2019, 05:48:17 AM
Mind-blowing. Thanks for doing this. So great.


Title: Re: Sloop John B guitars ~ isolation video
Post by: MyDrKnowsItKeepsMeCalm on December 04, 2019, 06:49:42 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_Q0iM4iCyg&feature=youtu.be (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_Q0iM4iCyg&feature=youtu.be)

Here's another one.  This one with a little more context and explanation.

For those of you who missed the don't talk video, what I'm doing is recording a painstakingly accurate transcription of various parts on Beach Boys records so we can hear them isolated from their three track embedded homes.  More than a cover, these are alternate reality re-enactments.

Let me know what you think, and remember I take requests.

This is great. Thank you! :)



Title: Re: Sloop John B guitars ~ isolation video
Post by: rab2591 on December 04, 2019, 04:40:39 PM
This is honestly one of the coolest things Beach Boys related that I've ever heard. I was not expecting the last 3 minutes of this video to sound so friggin heavenly! Thank you thank you for putting these videos together!


Title: Re: Sloop John B guitars ~ isolation video
Post by: RJM on December 04, 2019, 09:17:49 PM
Excellent stuff.

Request: the guitars from You Still Believe In Me. 😉


Title: Re: Sloop John B guitars ~ isolation video
Post by: c-man on December 05, 2019, 10:10:08 AM
Again, awesome job! Here's a pair of questions:

(1) Al Jardine famously added a fourth chord to the original, folksy three-chord arrangement of "SJB", and presented that enhanced chord sequence to Brian (notably, on the piano). I would assume the chord Al added was the minor II?

(2) What do we think of the guitar situation on "Amusement Parks U.S.A.", which was tracked in April of that year?  We really don't have session tape on that one, but on the SOT boot box for the Summer Days sessions (Disc Four, Tracks 5-7) you can hear a little bit of electric bass and guitar at the very end of the track, past the point where the record was faded out. I hear an octave being sounded there, but it's so quick I'm not sure if it's a 12-sting's G-string pair, for instance, or a 6-string bass doubling the regular Fender bass in a higher octave. It might even be a 6-string bass on that main riff, doubled by a 12-string guitar, but what do we think about that little bit there? Since the BBs were touring the southeast at the time, Carl would not have been on that session, and the contract lists Billy Strange and Jerry Cole (coincidentally, the same pair responsible for electric 12 picking on the "SJB" tracking date three months later), so if there is a 12-string, it would be one of them. 



Title: Re: Sloop John B guitars ~ isolation video
Post by: Emdeeh on December 05, 2019, 11:47:13 AM
Nice job on the SJB guitars video!


Title: Re: Sloop John B guitars ~ isolation video
Post by: guitarfool2002 on December 05, 2019, 12:02:34 PM

(1) Al Jardine famously added a fourth chord to the original, folksy three-chord arrangement of "SJB", and presented that enhanced chord sequence to Brian (notably, on the piano). I would assume the chord Al added was the minor II?


If you base Al's inspiration on the Kingston Trio's version, and after listening it's a no-brainer besides Al's affinity for the Kingston Trio, the ii minor is there on the Trio version. After "I feel so break up...", I'm talking *that* ii minor which goes to V then back to I.

If it's the other "added" chord, heard on lines like "got into a fight", "why don't you leave me alone...", listen to the earlier version of Sloop by The Weavers, and there is a chord change at those exact moments but it's much harder to hear buried in the arrangement by the Weavers. But it's there too.

So both "added" chords existed on previous versions before Brian's rearrangement. 

Kingston Trio: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmxZ94SLdac (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmxZ94SLdac)

The Weavers: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CvTloNDFFg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8CvTloNDFFg)

The closest to Brian's was obviously the Kingston Trio, from the vocal arrangement to the banjo arpeggios which Brian replaced with the 12-string guitars as heard in the video above. More on that topic for those interested: http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,26082.msg652604.html#msg652604 (http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,26082.msg652604.html#msg652604)


Title: Re: Sloop John B guitars ~ isolation video
Post by: aeijtzsche on December 05, 2019, 03:26:59 PM

(2) What do we think of the guitar situation on "Amusement Parks U.S.A.", which was tracked in April of that year?  We really don't have session tape on that one, but on the SOT boot box for the Summer Days sessions (Disc Four, Tracks 5-7) you can hear a little bit of electric bass and guitar at the very end of the track, past the point where the record was faded out. I hear an octave being sounded there, but it's so quick I'm not sure if it's a 12-sting's G-string pair, for instance, or a 6-string bass doubling the regular Fender bass in a higher octave. It might even be a 6-string bass on that main riff, doubled by a 12-string guitar, but what do we think about that little bit there? Since the BBs were touring the southeast at the time, Carl would not have been on that session, and the contract lists Billy Strange and Jerry Cole (coincidentally, the same pair responsible for electric 12 picking on the "SJB" tracking date three months later), so if there is a 12-string, it would be one of them. 





Amusement Parks is tough.  Not only is there no session tape, but even take 9 as we have it on SOT is overdubbed upon, yeah?  With Hal's barker patter and the sound effects?  So it's mono AND third gen?

Was the basic recorded to three track?

Anyway, yeah, at the end at least, an electric bass (although it could be guitar, I think it's high enough...) is at the octave with Cliff Hils playing lower.  I think it's just one, Fender bass on the track, two guitars, a six and maaaaaybe a 12 strumming.  It's early enough that it'd probably have to be a Bellzouki, a Rickenbacker, or a conversion job.


Title: Re: Sloop John B guitars ~ isolation video
Post by: c-man on December 06, 2019, 09:08:17 AM
Well, Carl had a Fender XII at the end of '64, so I would think that a session pro like Jerry Cole could've scored one by spring of '65...in fact, there's an electric 12 on "Sherry She Needs Me", which was cut in March '65, and from the session tape, it sounds to me like Carl is actually playing a 6-string on that one, so it would have to be Jerry Cole or Howard Roberts on 12-string (since Billy S. is playing tambourine on that one). The following day, they cut "Salt Lake City", and it sounds like Jerry is playing 12-sting on that one. A week later, the track for "California Girls" was cut, with both Carl and Jerry playing electric 12-strings...


Title: Re: Sloop John B guitars ~ isolation video
Post by: aeijtzsche on December 06, 2019, 09:27:55 AM
Well, Carl had a Fender XII at the end of '64, so I would think that a session pro like Jerry Cole could've scored one by spring of '65...in fact, there's an electric 12 on "Sherry She Needs Me", which was cut in March '65, and from the session tape, it sounds to me like Carl is actually playing a 6-string on that one, so it would have to be Jerry Cole or Howard Roberts on 12-string (since Billy S. is playing tambourine on that one). The following day, they cut "Salt Lake City", and it sounds like Jerry is playing 12-sting on that one. A week later, the track for "California Girls" was cut, with both Carl and Jerry playing electric 12-strings...


Man, the main thing that is driving me even more nuts than I was born these days is the 12-string situation in the world in 1965.

I would kill for some kind of guitar industry insider to talk about when the prototypes were available to whom.

Plus, I feel like the studio players could be either super cutting edge OR super conservative, like, certainly they couldíve had early access, like Glen and maybe Billy to the Mosrite 12s, but on the other hand, Carol Kaye didnít feel like buying another guitar so she had Milt convert one and then that served her just fine for the duration of the ď12-string eraĒ

I could easily see a lot of them getting their Bellzoukis in 61-62 and just being fine with those for the next 4 or 5 years.

And after the Beatles you do wonder how many felt like they needed Rickenbackers, even though Iím aware the thought is they werenít popular in the studio!


Title: Re: Sloop John B guitars ~ isolation video
Post by: c-man on December 07, 2019, 08:30:23 AM

(2) What do we think of the guitar situation on "Amusement Parks U.S.A.", which was tracked in April of that year?  We really don't have session tape on that one, but on the SOT boot box for the Summer Days sessions (Disc Four, Tracks 5-7) you can hear a little bit of electric bass and guitar at the very end of the track, past the point where the record was faded out. I hear an octave being sounded there, but it's so quick I'm not sure if it's a 12-sting's G-string pair, for instance, or a 6-string bass doubling the regular Fender bass in a higher octave. It might even be a 6-string bass on that main riff, doubled by a 12-string guitar, but what do we think about that little bit there? Since the BBs were touring the southeast at the time, Carl would not have been on that session, and the contract lists Billy Strange and Jerry Cole (coincidentally, the same pair responsible for electric 12 picking on the "SJB" tracking date three months later), so if there is a 12-string, it would be one of them. 





Amusement Parks is tough.  Not only is there no session tape, but even take 9 as we have it on SOT is overdubbed upon, yeah?  With Hal's barker patter and the sound effects?  So it's mono AND third gen?

Was the basic recorded to three track?

Anyway, yeah, at the end at least, an electric bass (although it could be guitar, I think it's high enough...) is at the octave with Cliff Hils playing lower.  I think it's just one, Fender bass on the track, two guitars, a six and maaaaaybe a 12 strumming.  It's early enough that it'd probably have to be a Bellzouki, a Rickenbacker, or a conversion job.

Yeah, they were still using 3-track then. Since the band track was probably recorded in stereo, thus occupying two of the three tracks on the first generation tape, I'm thinking Hal may have spoken his part "live" over the sound effects as they were fed into the same open track behind him. The Boys then sang an early, doubled set of vocals onto the two open tracks of a second-generation 3-track tape at Western. This early version appears on the Made In California box set. For whatever reason, the decision was later made to redo the vocals on 8-track, and so Brian took the 3-track tape with the backing track and sound effects overdub from Western over to Columbia, and there transferred it to a single track on a 1" 8-track tape. The Boys than re-sang the vocals (modifying the lyrics in a couple of places), and also added some screams and additional voices in the middle. That version (with vocals from Columbia) was released on the Summer Days album.

On the instrumental track (for instance, Track 5 of the SOT boot, from 2:24-2:27) there's that little run where in the first micro-second and last couple of seconds the electric bass sounds like a 6-string to me - I hear that slippery, almost fretting-out kind of sound, like what we hear on the intro to "Salt Lake City". I think that's indicative of a lighter-gauge bass string, like what's used on the Dano or Fender XI. So I would tend to think that Carol played a Dano on this track, while Jerry Cole played whatever electric 12-string he was using in those March-July sessions, and Billy Strange played electric 6-string.


Title: Re: Sloop John B guitars ~ isolation video
Post by: aeijtzsche on December 07, 2019, 10:08:08 AM

(2) What do we think of the guitar situation on "Amusement Parks U.S.A.", which was tracked in April of that year?  We really don't have session tape on that one, but on the SOT boot box for the Summer Days sessions (Disc Four, Tracks 5-7) you can hear a little bit of electric bass and guitar at the very end of the track, past the point where the record was faded out. I hear an octave being sounded there, but it's so quick I'm not sure if it's a 12-sting's G-string pair, for instance, or a 6-string bass doubling the regular Fender bass in a higher octave. It might even be a 6-string bass on that main riff, doubled by a 12-string guitar, but what do we think about that little bit there? Since the BBs were touring the southeast at the time, Carl would not have been on that session, and the contract lists Billy Strange and Jerry Cole (coincidentally, the same pair responsible for electric 12 picking on the "SJB" tracking date three months later), so if there is a 12-string, it would be one of them. 





Amusement Parks is tough.  Not only is there no session tape, but even take 9 as we have it on SOT is overdubbed upon, yeah?  With Hal's barker patter and the sound effects?  So it's mono AND third gen?

Was the basic recorded to three track?

Anyway, yeah, at the end at least, an electric bass (although it could be guitar, I think it's high enough...) is at the octave with Cliff Hils playing lower.  I think it's just one, Fender bass on the track, two guitars, a six and maaaaaybe a 12 strumming.  It's early enough that it'd probably have to be a Bellzouki, a Rickenbacker, or a conversion job.

Yeah, they were still using 3-track then. Since the band track was probably recorded in stereo, thus occupying two of the three tracks on the first generation tape, I'm thinking Hal may have spoken his part "live" over the sound effects as they were fed into the same open track behind him. The Boys then sang an early, doubled set of vocals onto the two open tracks of a second-generation 3-track tape at Western. This early version appears on the Made In California box set. For whatever reason, the decision was later made to redo the vocals on 8-track, and so Brian took the 3-track tape with the backing track and sound effects overdub from Western over to Columbia, and there transferred it to a single track on a 1" 8-track tape. The Boys than re-sang the vocals (modifying the lyrics in a couple of places), and also added some screams and additional voices in the middle. That version (with vocals from Columbia) was released on the Summer Days album.

On the instrumental track (for instance, Track 5 of the SOT boot, from 2:24-2:27) there's that little run where in the first micro-second and last couple of seconds the electric bass sounds like a 6-string to me - I hear that slippery, almost fretting-out kind of sound, like what we hear on the intro to "Salt Lake City". I think that's indicative of a lighter-gauge bass string, like what's used on the Dano or Fender XI. So I would tend to think that Carol played a Dano on this track, while Jerry Cole played whatever electric 12-string he was using in those March-July sessions, and Billy Strange played electric 6-string.

So many missing tapes!

It certainly was the height of Brian's love of 6-string basses, the Today and Summer Days era.  Of course, he kept using them for a few more years, but his love for them really got shown off best around this time.


Title: Re: Sloop John B guitars ~ isolation video
Post by: aeijtzsche on December 10, 2019, 01:28:39 PM
Some have requested that I put together a score for the arrangement.  I had typed it all up in standard music notation, but Tab is helpful for many guitarists, so I added that with the caveat that I'm not that familiar with tab standards and how you do things with it, so use it as you will.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1UHK32Hrw8t5Cz8PkB_tHe-8ZAETnzCAb/view?usp=sharing (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1UHK32Hrw8t5Cz8PkB_tHe-8ZAETnzCAb/view?usp=sharing)


Title: Re: Sloop John B guitars ~ isolation video
Post by: JK on December 11, 2019, 02:15:52 AM
Some have requested that I put together a score for the arrangement.  I had typed it all up in standard music notation, but Tab is helpful for many guitarists, so I added that with the caveat that I'm not that familiar with tab standards and how you do things with it, so use it as you will.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1UHK32Hrw8t5Cz8PkB_tHe-8ZAETnzCAb/view?usp=sharing (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1UHK32Hrw8t5Cz8PkB_tHe-8ZAETnzCAb/view?usp=sharing)

Fantastic! This is a true labour of love.

I've linked the score in the topics I've set up elsewhere devoted to "Power Mower''. Every little bit of extra publicity helps. ;)


Title: Re: Sloop John B guitars ~ isolation video
Post by: UEF on December 12, 2019, 02:44:41 AM
Some have requested that I put together a score for the arrangement.  I had typed it all up in standard music notation, but Tab is helpful for many guitarists, so I added that with the caveat that I'm not that familiar with tab standards and how you do things with it, so use it as you will.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1UHK32Hrw8t5Cz8PkB_tHe-8ZAETnzCAb/view?usp=sharing (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1UHK32Hrw8t5Cz8PkB_tHe-8ZAETnzCAb/view?usp=sharing)

More to the point, it's the only notation some of us understand :D Looks great, thank you Joshilyn