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Circa Occtober '66 H&V seems to have consisted of just the bits from the piano demo + maybe the early 'intro' bit.  Not much of a song really is it - just 3 fairly disjointed sections.  There are apparently quite a few missing session tapes for it from nov/dec so presumably there was other stuff recorded to fill it out..?

Or possibly those initial 3 sections repeated a bit more to fill it out.  IIGS I think was probably going to have more overdubs on it - presumably the texture was to be in keeping with Barnyard..?  Just guessing of course but the IIGS bits we have I don't think sound fully produced.  The snippet Mark caught on his phone actually does sound more like it production wise.

So do people think he recorded those initial 3 bits then got stuck and left it - or was it much more complete but he then decided to revise it after christmas and start adding Cantina etc..?

Of course I realize this has all been hashed over a million times but the Durrie Parks clip for instance definitely shows there is material missing.

I think Barnyard makes a fine chorus but the problem is getting back out of it and back into the main song - I've never heard an edit that manages this successfully.

At the time of the piano demo in November the song consisted of the two verses, IIGS, and then "another section" Barnyard, which was likely planned as the final section/fade (as it was replaced by the similar "false Barnyard" or tag to Old Master Painter in the Feb cantina version).  What we don't know is what was between IIGS and Barnyard, but Brian mentioned "we're still working" so clearly what was to go in the middle was still undecided.  The December acetate reveals that one edit Brian was considering was IIGS (new version)/"my children were raised . . . healthy wealthy and often wise" fast section/Heroes shortened verse (for "three score and five").  I have to think Brian would also have included an a capella section as he did in both cantina and the final version, most likely (considering the Dec acetate) right after the three score and five.  So we have:

verses/IIGS/children were raised/three score and five/a capella/Barnyard

The Dec "intro" was recorded as Heroes Part 3 so the only place it could go based on the above would be after the a capella section and before Barnyard.

This reminds me of the days on the Smile Shop and prior to that, the hours some of us spent trying to fit random pieces of this music together and then finding out there were others obsessed with it who loved to talk about it. Hard to believe that was over 20 years ago and more...and look at what has happened since.

I do think it's important to look at the fact that these were indeed "disjointed sections" during nearly the entire process of Brian trying to cobble them together into a cohesive whole, and that is essentially the whole point and genesis of the song. Good Vibrations was at many points a similar song and construction, where the disjointed sections were tried and tested in various sequences and edits until Brian knew he hit on the right one. Just go through the multiple discs of GV outtakes and unused sections/sessions both officially and unofficially released and available, and it's amazing how such a cohesive song form was created from literally hours of taped material.

I think there is not and will never be an answer to these questions, and it's all speculation. We know test edits were made, and we know Brian was working on a song form which was constantly changing and evolving, sometimes from one day to the next. And he was testing the sequences as the process moved forward.

Many of these were simply tests to see how it would sound when sequenced a certain way. The sequence he played for Humble Harve in November was a snapshot in time, more valuable as a snapshot of the composer playing his own creation in his own voice than it is a Rosetta Stone for how it was to be sequenced. That sequencing was always changing. The parts of the sequence were regularly being added, shifted, and changed...and in some cases dropped entirely.

For me, the best and most solid or complete of these snapshots in time was the "Chuck Britz Edit", the song cut down to fit a radio single which first appeared on the Smiley 2-fer and later on the GV box set. That is a tight edit, has some of the best fragments flowing in and out of each other (I'm thinking specifically 'Cantina' and the tape explosion effect), and it's cut to produce a radio single, not an album mix. Bookend that with H&V "Part 2" on the GV box set, the edit of many fragments that are disjointed yet still create a wonderful pastiche that ebbs and flows without sounding like pieces haphazardly cut together.

And look what happened to the Britz/Cantina mix...it got scrapped. I will never understand why that didn't come out, and still hold that as one of my favorite Smile sections, easily my favorite "Heroes" mix.

So if something that good got canned, consider how many fragments and sections we know of suffered the same fate without getting a final mixdown and edit, and fell victim perhaps to so many (too many?) innovative musical sections being labeled under the "Heroes" umbrella and getting shelved when that umbrella became too small to hold all the things under it.

Speculation is fun, yes. But there are very, very few answers.

Ah so the Durrie Parks edit is from December..?   I think its a safe be the main melody would always have come back after those initial 4 verses - the 'my children' melody is basically the main melody.

I think your sequence below is a very logical one and would flow.   IIGS I'm sure would have been layered up to be real ear candy - I think this because all the other fully produced sections are + what we have of IIGS just sounds like the basis without the harmonies/FX etc.

Its also possible there were sections we don't know about due to them being detailed but no tapes to be found.
 

Ref the Cantina mix:   it doesn't work for me as a complete song.  It has many brilliant sections of course but I find it too jumpy.   I don't like the laughing FX I think they're clumsy and should have been suggested by instruments.   I don't like 'you're under arrest/train whistle' - at least not for repeated listens.  I also don't like the feedback dead-stop -  I mean its cool but for repeated listens..?  I think its jarring.

Having said that the first time I heard the mix I laughed in astonishment.  I know this what Brian was going for.

So I do think Cantina could work as a hit 45 if smoothed out with a couple more sections.  Presumably Brian though similar as I think the mix only stood for a couple of days or so..?

To each his own regarding the Britz single mix and opinions thereof. But it was and is the only fully realized final mix of Heroes that exists prior to the summer 67 released version, and this was the one that would have been waiting for release had that happened as planned.

Notice it was cut to run 4 seconds under 3 minutes, the gold standard for a pop single release. Clearly no accident.

I think there is a tendency to place more weight or importance on test edits, fragments, speculation, and mixes done 4 or 5 decades after the fact instead of looking at what actually does exist in terms of what was actually prepared for a possible release. The Britz mix stands as one of the few examples of the latter and shows precisely what Brian wanted at that moment in time.

Where did the info come from regarding the scrapping of this mix within a few days?

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So the quotes directly from Chuck Britz about his involvement in that single mix are wrong, and Chuck was wrong? In that case, what single mix of Heroes did Chuck mix for Heroes if not this 3 minute version is the obvious follow up.

Edit: might be good for a refresher to review Chuck Britz's comments on the Heroes mix...

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I don't think that's quite right..?  It was definitely a test mix yes but a final mix for release..?   I don't think thats ever been stated apart from by Dom Priore..?

He was straight back in recording 'prelude' a few days after the mixdown so it seems to me it was either  a rough assembly or an attempt at a final song but rejected almost immediately if you allow time for coming up with 'prelude'.

Oh I never knew all the verse lyrics were written in one go.  Could he have meant that all the verse lyrics for the 45 were written at the same time..?

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Oh sure - 'prelude' is defiinitely a version of 'my children'.

I can see how the piano demo sequence could have worked with a fully realised IIGS, a couple more verses, and maybe a further section.  The problem for us doing our own mixes is the unfinished nature of IIGS.   I suppose a more fleshed out version could be created but its cheating.

Also a bit of a cheat but BR could replace IIGS in that section - you'd have to pitch it half a step though.  Not a monumental cheat as a version of that music was used as the chorus of the 45 - also VDP told me the BR lyrics were done for H&V - presumably for the B side..?

But yeah: verses - IIGS - verses - something - barnyard does seem like very likely early sequence.

What is the source for the information about Heroes (single 'Cantina mix') being mixed at Columbia versus Chuck Britz mixing it? This is specific to that single edit which appeared on the 2-fer and the GV box set...nothing else. Are you basing this on info from Marilyn or is it speculation, or is there hard fact?

Years ago myself and a few others here specifically found, dissected, and analyzed in some cases individual frames of that film showing Brian mixing at Western on 8 track, and it successfully busted a long-held mistake in reporting that Brian never mixed 8-track at Western with Chuck. The film showed it plain as day once the details were pointed out. As you said, it did happen and we know it happened unlike previous reports that he mixed at Columbia, which opened up the possibility that more mixing was done at Western - on 8 track - which would back up what Chuck said and what others around Brian during Smile had reported about Brian going to Western specifically to mix with Chuck because he had more freedom and control there versus other studios among other reasons for that choice of studios. So again I ask, what is the source that is disputing Chuck Britz?

On that same topic of  "years ago"...I did a lot of this stuff years ago, and have folders and drives I haven't accessed for literally over a decade or more sitting full of quotes, scans, audio, video, research, conversations, etc. I would like to say I can dig up more from Chuck Britz, but no guarantees.

The difference with this specific mix is that it was assigned a Capitol master number, which means it was in the pipeline for a potential release, and consider that since the gold standard for singles at this time was *still* around 3 minutes long per side of a 45rpm, give or take...the additions could have been considered for an album version of the track versus a single, and consider too that with Brian's disputes with Capitol he could have had the single in the bag at one point for the sake of Capitol's requirements and subsequent negotiations.

So we have a Heroes mixdown, 3 minutes in length, assigned a master number for Capitol, and which Chuck Britz says he worked on for a single. What or who is the source that disputes Chuck's versions of events?

There's some evidence the "so long to the city . . . fit with the stuff" was written in December - an eyewitness recalls it being attempted in December but abandoned at that time because of "resistance" - not that we need to go into the whole Mike Love vs the lyrcs situation.

I look at the recording of Prelude to Fade and the "chorus" differently - the chorus, for example, was tracked with a different master number (57045 vs. 57020) and was marked as "Heroes bridge" and as "Heroes and Villains side 2."  Prelude was recorded under the original master number but I interpret the multiple sections he was recording at this time as sections for a part 2 or side 2 of the single.  Chuck remembers mixing a 2 sided single in February.  On February 10th Brian told reporter Tracy Thomas “I’m doing the final mix on the A side tonight, but I can’t decide what to do on the other side.” The final mix of the A side was the “cantina” mix.  So he needed to come up with a B side and immediately started recording new sections and variations on the Heroes theme.  At some point - perhaps when he started re-recording the Heroes verse music and then the Fade, and then an "intro to Part 2" - Brian had lost the thread and the cantina version had been rejected.  That's when he put Heroes aside and announced Vegetables as the next single and held multiple sessions in April, enough to complete the single but then again left it only partially assembled.

Hi BR - in the notes in the box set the chorus is logged as 'part 2' not 'side 2'.

In the single it is indeed part 2.

Could have been both - part 2 of side 2..?


 "the chorus, for example, was tracked with a different master number (57045 vs. 57020) and was marked as "Heroes bridge" and as "Heroes and Villains side 2."  

Michael Vosse also reported the same as Chuck in his 1969 "Fusion" article, which I'll repost if I can. And it leads again to the question where did the info come from which says Chuck did not work on the Heroes 3-minute single mix?

If Prelude has the original master umber doesn't that mean it was for the single..?

I don't think Cantina is a good mix for a single and neither did the team at the time otherwise it would have been released..?

The Cantina section was very briefly around - Marilyn said she only heard it twice.

I don't mean to flog a dead horse but Cantina appears to have been created then discarded very quickly.

Just for the record, Michael Vosse direct quote:

(https://i.imgur.com/ZBsTe2a.jpg)

When you think about it the 45 only really has TWO musical ideas:  the verse melody (with slight variations) and the chorus.

So the Nov demo has more distinct ideas than the 45 i.e. three.  However the 45 is very cleverly planned out so that you don't notice this.

Sooo:  the Nov parts could have worked if produced and sequenced properly.  A caveat is that I don't think IIGS is a very interesting melody - the backing track and harmonies probably were going to do a lot of the heavy lifting on that section.

For my own personal mix I've got no problem dropping the BR section down a semitone and putting it in place of IIGS - cheating but quite mild cheating I reckon :)

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Just so we're on the same page: It seems like you're pinning most if not all of your opinion that the "Cantina" mix was not done by Chuck Britz on the information written on a tape box. In doing that, did you consider the accounts of how unorganized, sometimes inaccurate (as in tapes being in the wrong box, mislabeled boxes with box notations not matching what was on the reels, boxes with no tape in them at all, etc.) , and often confusing those tape boxes and their notations were with the Smile material on all those reels?

If you're saying the date on the tape box of Feb 10 '67 excludes Chuck Britz from the scenario, would you also consider a 3-minute single mixdown could have been prepared with the same material sometime after Feb 10th at Western, or even another time during that week of Feb 6 when those sessions were held? All of those elements you cited were tracked Feb 7th...The Beach Boys did not have to be present for a mix session after everything on the single mix had been recorded, and most often the group was not present at mix sessions, even according to interviews I have seen with Chuck Britz. It was Chuck and Brian the majority of the time.

As has been offered many times here and elsewhere, the notations on tape boxes and even written on session sheets is not always airtight and 100% accurate, and definitely not infallible.

If you have questions about previous interviews with Chuck Britz, consider dropping a line to Domenic Priore and asking him, since he was one who interviewed Chuck to get some of this info on the Heroes single mixes. Go right to the source via email or Facebook.

I'm a bit fuzzy on master numbers.

The original verses are 56727.  Then IIGS is 56738.  Then the next bunch inc 'bridge to indians' is 57020.  Cantina is 57020.  Then all those theme variations are 57020.  Then the part 2 piano 45 chorus piano track onwards is 57045.

So what that looks like logically is IIGS was its own song - except we know at this stage it wasn't.  It also suggests that Cantina etc was for side 2/a different cut - except we know it wasn't.

So thats all nice and confusing.

Here's another thing:  bridge to indians and bicycle rider were both recorded early Jan.  Both logged as H&V so seemingly those parts were in the song by then - a good 6 months before the BR melody was recorded for the single.  VDP told me the BR lyrics were done for H&V.  The boys actually used them in the live version in the 70s.

Also this seems to have been a sections try out for the A side in Jan:

verse edit experiment/bridge to indians/indians(i.e. BR) - unless anyone thinks 'indians' could have been something else..?

Bridge to indians ends on a C sharp chord.

I suppose it could be argued that verse edit experiment was for the B side..?

Also verses/IIGS/BY seems to have been the guts of the song for quit e along time - those sections were tracked in Oct and still the only bits played to Humble Harv in Nov.

I think its therefore OK to say that was the bulk tune in 1966 albeit with some work ongoing.

I think its right after christmas he starts to seriously re work it..?

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I don't think so.  Despite the different master number I think this was tried as a replacement for IIGS for "Part 2" of Heroes, as cantina had previously been considered a part 2 (and the Dec "intro" part 3).

The master # corresponds to Heroes Part 2 but writing on the tape box, confirmed by Alan, is “Heroes bridge with spooky low strings and percussion” and “Heroes and Villains Side Two."

Right so in fact the BR part was in the song proper in Jan - even if only for a short time..?

I think Cantina came after the above tryout..?

Was the single's chorus really the bridge at one time..?  For side 2..?  I'm trying to think of another par that would match that description but  I can't - can you..?

If that's what it was thats what it was - I'll chew these things over but will accept the evidence :)

FWIW I think the BR melody parts are much more 'hit single' than IIGS and Cantina.  (Although its fair to  point out we haven't heard fully finished versions of those sections.  I think Cantina was part of a test mix).

I interpret the recording activity after the Feb 10 mix differently - The Feb 15/16 sessions with prelude to fade and the tack piano theme and then the Feb 20 Part 2 and Part 2 revised sections seem to me all pieces he was recording in consideration for the B side of the single.  From the Tracy Thomas interview : “I’m doing the final mix on the A side tonight, but I can’t decide what to do on the other side.”   so all this recording was trying to decide what to do on the B side.  Now when he rerecorded the fade Feb 28 and the verse backing March 1, it seems he had rejected the cantina mix and was trying to start over again from the ground up.

I get you - but the single chorus track defiinitely started out as side 2 bridge - am I understanding correctly..?

As for the single chorus being "Heroes bridge" of course we don't know what sections it was supposed to be bridging.  The single chorus is just the same tack piano theme Brian had recorded twice, but on harpsichord with percussion and strings overdubbed.  He'd already recorded the "Gee" followed by the various Heroes sections, presumably for the B side of the single.  There is a mono mix done of Gee followed by the various sections in the usual order but with the "Swedish frog" animal sounds from Part 3 cut out of the tape.  Was this supposed to go in its' place?  If so I would think he would have recorded it as an "insert" or as Heroes Part 3 or 4.  Or was it meant to follow Part 4 to bridge something else, before Prelude to Fade? It's all conjecture at this point.

Well my main takeaway from all this is that the BR melody was in the actual 45 much earlier than I thought/remembered.

I think it was right to use it in the single.  I think the single flows well as a song but isn't very well produced.  For some reason which isn't clear to me he just couldn't make his mind up.

According to what was written on the tape box, yes.  But one could always argue that someone misunderstood when they wrote that, and perhaps it was meant to be "part 2" even though it was written as "side two."  I don't think an engineer would misunderstand "bridge" though.

Sure.   I know this has been hashed out a million times but  I haven't had a go since the box set came out.

 I think the Durrie acetate shows that 'my children' was being tried in December + the witness account of 'sunnydown snuff' also in December.

I feel like I've got more of a true understanding of what they were up to than I have in the past - like a couple more pieces of the jigsaw have appeared :)

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Good point.  Heroes bridge COULD have been added when the tapes were reviewed and archived by Stephen and Carl in 1972 - but why would they write bridge when the piece is actually the chorus of the single which of course Carl and Stephen would be well aware of?  If the notation was from 67 then someone must have mentioned it was the bridge, I doubt an engineer or assistant (Diane?) would presume to make that decision as to the purpose of the piece on their own.  So many questions, so few answers.

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Keep posted on your email to Domenic, I'm curious to hear what his thoughts are if he replies.

Just to clarify for those reading, there are two issues at play regarding Chuck Britz - The specific "single" mix and also the issue of a two-sided single at one point in time, which both Chuck and Vosse have said existed...yet some still deny this ever was a possibility.

This single mix has been referred to by me and I'm sure others as the "Chuck Britz" single mix for over 20 years. How and why it got that name, I honestly can't remember, but when it has existed as such for that long (and there were discussions about this stuff back on the Smile Shop, on the Yahoo Smile group, and other outlets for years), and it's *not* a Chuck Britz mix...why hasn't it been corrected officially so the accuracy is noted and logged as fact? Honestly, I haven't seen hard proof that this was *not* done by Chuck Britz other than connecting dates and events on a timeline that itself is incomplete, along with tape boxes that we agree can be notoriously misleading if not incorrect. I see the possibility in the timelines and events logged...but I haven't seen the probability as definitively as you have stated. Maybe there is no definitive answer? Until I see something definite beyond suggesting "this is what happened Feb 10th, this is what didn't happen Feb 10th, therefore the following is true and factual...", it's hard to dismiss something I've been hearing and reading for almost three decades at this point about that "single" mix/edit based on an "if...then..." logic based on session sheets and tape boxes in a timeline. And I say that not to argue, but just to lay out where my information and opinions stand.

So yes, it would be helpful to have more from Chuck Britz's comments and interviews. I wish I could offer more but I have no clue where to start looking in my own archived gigabytes of various crap from the past decades... ;D

Consider too the anecdote from one of the Ron Hicklin Singers who says he was with Chuck as Chuck played him a mix of Heroes, and went on to relate a story about how much better the track was "six months ago", but Brian invited someone who was hanging out in the studio to listen...and when that person said they liked GV better, Brian immediately trashed whatever mix of the song he had played and started over. So what was *that* mix, and doesn't that also suggest Chuck had a major hand in the mixing of Heroes overall if he played the tracks for a random visitor when Brian was there mixing the track?  Is that story "apocryphal" or did a random guest's opinion of whatever mix that was end up scuttling a version of "Heroes"?


A quick postscript/sidestep: The "Chuck Britz edit" (sorry, I can't stop calling it that for easy reference) does *not* have the train effect "woo woo woo" vocals before "you're under arrest", yet as we've heard other more modern finds and mixes have that right before the arrest line. This means the woo-woo was either edited out or edited in at some point. Since my brain hurts a bit...which was it? And when was that edit done, since there was obviously an edit?

The reason why I put a lot of weight in this single version is because it matches up with descriptions of what was planned as the Heroes single given to various reporters and the like at the time. I weigh what we got officially on that 2-fer more heavily because it lines up with those descriptions, from the sound effects to the "comedy" to the random people saying things during the track, this sounds like more than a hasty test edit, and the editing and cutting is more clean and fluid than on the other Smile test edits. And based on the working methods, it would make sense (to me) that Brian would be mixing such a single on his home turf with Chuck at Western versus working on a mix at Columbia or elsewhere, at this point in time in 1967.

Cantina may have been a trial final sequence but it was rejected almost immediately.  I agree.  Although containing several sections of genius I don't think it hangs together as a hit 45 at all.  Or as a coherent piece.   I think it could do with the unfunny 'humour' removed and a couple of other sections put back in.

Non BB fans I've played it to have uniformly not liked it.

I'm much more interested in what was in the 1966 versions of the song.  Sunnydown snuff appears to have been tried in '66 so:

verses - IIGS - verses (possibly inc my children) - something/possibly sunnydown snuff - barnyard   -   the only real stab here is 'sunnydown snuff' but this seems to be approximately what the song was from oct till mid/late dec..?

Regarding the Cantina mix - I though the session logs show the mix at Columbia..?

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How does "Cantina" being a trial mix match up with the description of Heroes given to multiple sources at the time lining up almost exactly with what the mix we have sounds like and incorporates? I disagree it was a "trial mix", because the editing is too smooth and fluid...much more so than any of the existing test edits that have been found. It sounds like they were going for a single mix. But that's just my take on it.

Did the session logs at Columbia actually log something as a mixdown session, or do they only note the engineer present? That was a question I had earlier in the discussion, are we going on something at Columbia which was logged as a mixdown session, was it a reduction mix to allow for further work, was it a rough mix cut to acetate to take home and audition, or was something logged as a proper Heroes mix session on that date?

Is there a rough date when or where this would have been done?

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I agree that cantina was more than a trial mix - look at the trial mixes of the Part 2 sections and some other trial mixes of parts of Heroes, this was a professionally done mix for a single release.  Now to an extent you can call any unreleased mix a trial mix - since Brian ultimately decided against releasing it - but this wasn't just to see how the parts would fit together, this was meant to be a "final" version - until Brian decided it wasn't.

Fair dos chaps.  If Cantina was the single briefly he was soon changing it.  Its interesting but I want to do as good '66 mix as possible.

Is there consensus on 'bridge to indians/bichycle rider' being part of the A side early Jan..?

Or do some people think they were for side 2/B-side part 2 or whatever..?

Confusingly 'intro' was recorded in Dec quite early in the H&V process but its in E - the much later chants are in E/A so musically intro would go with those chants.

Of course there's no rules and a C sharp tune can have sections in any key as long as it sounds good.

I guess I'm just wondering if the 45 and 'part 2/side 2' were possibly being developed at the same time.

Some people have argued, because of the new master number, that Bicyclerider was to be part of a part 2/side 2.  Cam, mainly.  So no absolute consensus, although Alan has said he believes that the part 2 designation was for part 2 of the A side, I.e. to replace cantina, the former Part 2, which is the theory I subscribe to.  Different master numbers were used for different parts of Good Vibrations I believe as well.

The intro in December was Heroes Part 3 and was definitely planned for the A side, to follow Cantina in some way, as I suggested in my earlier post possibly to go after Cantina/my children were raised/three score and five and before Barnyard.  And I believe the a capella section would go in there after three score and five as well.  The re-recorded intro March 1 was recorded as Intro to Part 2 with the Part 2 master number so presumably was to be on the Bside.  But there’s the musically similar piece recorded Jan 5?  along with bridge to Indians that was probably a replacement for the Dec intro and again meant for the A side of the single.

And 'All day' had a vocal session - and was to have spoken parts in the gaps.

The '66 'Intro' is called as 'part 3' on the take.

What on earth are the '66 intro and All Day supposed to be..?  From what we have I think its impossible to even guess..?  Unless Intro is supposed to be a train..?  Thats what it sounds like to me if anything..?

Presumably 'All Day' was part of the IIGS/BY vibe..?  I wonder if the DaDa melody lines were meant for it but with lyrics..?  Its so sparse I bet it was going to have FX.

Its obvious the early versions were more of a mini 'movie' with FX etc.  Personally I don't like really obvious FX.   I prefer suggestion like the baby crying BG vox on the fast 'my children'.

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The final two takes of All Day on Jan 27th were only about 20 seconds long, so Brian could have been considering incorporating it into Heroes somehow at this point.  And of course it was first demoed on Dec 22nd.  Hard to see where he would have put it but after he rejected IIGS as part 2 he seemed to be trying all sorts of things on tape to find some sections and link pieces to finish the single - the Jan 3 sessions in particular with bridge to Indians, Do A Lot, tag to Part 1, Mission Pak, pickup to 3rd verse and Bag of Tricks (which sounds like a rejiggered Heroes Part 3/"intro").  And then Bicycle Rider on Jan 5th.  Only to reject them all with finalizing the cantina mix.  And then rejecting that . . .

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All Day 'track and vocals recorded at Columbia'... etc - booklet track17 CD 2 notes

I didn't know it was demoed in December..?

Presumably it was a pastoral type section..?

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Oh well how do you know that info is wrong - and that there were no vocals..?  Not arguing either way just curious how you know.

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No but that doesn't mean they weren't recorded - it could mean they were lost or abandoned. 

I don't think there's any evidence this tapebox indicates a final mix of the single was done at this time.  Cantina was likely the first complete "final" single mix attempt.

HEROS AND VILLAINS - 1ST PART

1 - 1st version of PT-1
2 - 2nd version of PT-1 with more echo
3 - 1st version of PT-2

4 Bridge to 3rd verses [or versions] (start with “My Children”)
5 Bridge To PT Two (whistle Part)

[note - EDITED, indicating all above parts]

6 - 3rd verses
7 BRIDGE [Last item crossed out]

NOTE:
THIS REEL HAS HAD ALL OF THE ABOVE REMOVED TO AN UNKNOWN REEL 12/31/85 J. PETERS

The box suggests to me that pieces of the song were mixed, and some of the pieces were edited together.  Then the pieces were removed to another reel which unfortunately appears to be missing, but we still have most of what was on this tape.

On Sea of Tunes Vol 17 disc 1 we have two mono mixes of the first two verses (Part 1), one with more echo.  The one with more echo sounds like the one eventually used for the Cantina mix.

1st version of Part 2 (cantina) is also on SOT, similar to what was used in the Cantina mix

Bridge to 3rd verse (start with my children) is the fast my children were raised, often wise which again was used in the Cantina mix to lead into the third verse (three score and five)

Bridge to Part 2 (whistle part) - eventually used to bridge from the third verse to the MOS Part 2/Barnshine fade in Cantina, here apparently it was being considered as a bridge to cantina (Part 2)  BUT there is an interesting edit on SOT 17 disc 1 track 16  using some of these parts:

Part 1 with more echo (1st 2 verses) edited into the whistle part edited into the "bridge to 3rd verse" (my children were raised)

So this mix may represent what was edited on this tape or on the tape the pieces were removed to.  Yes, it means the numbered sections on the tapebox are edited together 2 -5-4 but the box doesn't say the parts are edited together in numerical order, even though that would make more sense.

The verse edit experiment is also very interesting as it edits Part 1 (1st 2 verses) into bridge to Indians/pickup to 3rd verse.  Since it was done the same day as cantina was tracked, I have to think the idea was to try Part 1/bridge to Indians/cantina.  Because of the name when it was recorded Jan 3rd, two days before recording the Bicycle Rider vocals as Heroes Part 2, we have to assume Brian was thinking originally  Part 1/bridge/Bicycle Rider, but now cantina has replaced BR as Part 2.  In the cantina mix of course Brian used the a capella section to bridge to Part 2.

So an early January version might look like this:
Part 1 (1st 2 verses)/bridge to Indians/Bicycle Rider/pickup to 3rd verse/3rd verse/a capella/Bag of Tricks (Heroes Part 3)/Barnshine fade

There are mix attempts on SOT 17 disc 1 of the verses with 1st 2 verses followed by the 3rd verse followed by the a capella part (but with the backing track) so it's logical that at that time he was planning the a capella part to follow the third verse. This leaves out tag to Part One from Jan 3 and the version of Do a Lot.  Neither make any sense in any edit I can think of.  Maybe he was considering Do a Lot as a Part 2 before going back to Worms and taking Bicycle Rider from there 2 days later?

Not a typo, actually...just a misinterpretation of the information. The mention of vocals pertains to the other parts recorded that day. The proper way to read the entry is thus:

Heroes And Villains Session: 1/27/67
13. Heroes And Villains: Children Were Raised
Lead vocal: Brian / Backing vocals: Brian, Dennis, Carl, Mike, Al, Bruce
Thigh slap: Brian Wilson
"Brillo pad" percussion: Dennis Wilson
Tack piano: Brian Wilson (o/d)
Control room comments: Steve Korthof
      Master is Take 8   
14. Heroes And Villains: Part 2 (Cantina track)
Tack piano: Brian Wilson
Control room comments: Steve Korthof
15. Heroes And Villains: Whistling Bridge
Vocals: Carl, Brian, Dennis, Mike
Whistling: Brian, Dennis & Carl ?
Control room comments: Al Jardine (switched places in the booth with Brian before the first official take)
      Master is Take 12
16. Heroes And Villains session: Cantina session & master take
Lead vocals: Brian with Mike / Laughter & Backing vocals: Brian, Dennis, Carl, Mike, Al, Bruce
"You're under arrest!" voice: Gene Gaddy
Tack piano: Brian Wilson
Mandolins: Tommy Tedesco (o/ds A & B)
      Master is Revised Version Take 17
17. Heroes And Villains: All Day
Piano (w/strings taped) : Brian Wilson
      Master is Take 20 (of 28)
      Track & Vocals recorded at Columbia Studio A, Friday January 27, 1967, 6:00pm-12:00am
      Engineer: Jerry Hochman, 2nd engineer: Don (aka D.T. ?)
      Vocals & Overdubs A & B on Track 16 recorded at Columbia Studio A, Tuesday February 7, 1967, 6:00pm-11:30pm
      Engineer: unknown
      Master # 57020 / Recorded on 1" 8-track tape
18. Heroes And Villains: Verse Edit Experiment
      Mixed & Edited Friday January 27, 1967 on 1/4" mono tape

The booklet uses an ingenious (if I do say so myself) color-coding method, whereby all the recording info (take numbers, dates, locations, engineer names) are in green, while vocals & singer credits are blue, instrumentation & musician credits are purple, and titles are sepia. Recording credits pertaining to several pieces recorded on the same date are listed after ALL pieces recorded that day. Sorry for any confusion!

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Anything's possible. Those parts are all on a reel dated 1/27. The only other documentation for that reel is the AFM sheet dated 2/27 indicating Tommy Tedesco's mandolin parts on the "Cantina" section were overdubbed that day, and Capitol Session worksheets indicating vocals were added that day (meaning, 2/27).

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