The Smiley Smile Message Board

This flew under the radar.

Any news? what could it possibly be.

That did kinda fly under the radar, didn't it?

They don't officially announce copyright sets (far in advance), right? Same for the Live copyright releases we have gotten in past years. And (completely guessing here) possibly Mark is involved with the new "Long Promised Road" documentary (mastering tunes or mixing Brian's newly recorded songs), but I don't think he would be the one to make any announcements about that...

So, if I had to take a guess:It's a Sunflower boxset. We're right on the cusp of the anniversary of this very special album - while I don't think Sunflower did as well as 20/20 or Friends on the charts, Sunflower has gained cultural popularity over the years...placing itself in Rolling Stone's top 200 albums of all time list, as well as other lists. Musicians/artists talk about how revolutionary a song like "All I Wanna Do" was. There is absolute gold on this album, and it wouldn't take much for a marketing agent at Capitol Records to turn up on the hype to market such a boxset to the public.

That is my best guess. I am probably completely wrong ;D whatever the announcement is, I am sure it will be something pretty special.

I’d be down for a Sunflower set

Here too!  ;D

I'm expecting it to be a sunflower box set and I get shivers just thinking about it.

Needs to be a psychical release.

Love sunflower so I hope that's true

I hope it’s a physical release but psychical would be cool too.  Is that where they just transmit it directly into our brains?   :)

From the RS story back in January.

What sort of archival stuff are we looking at for the near future? Do you have anything on deck?

Linett: Well, we’d love to do some projects that focus on the first albums they did for their own label, Brother Records. Because in 1969 they started laying down tracks, some of which found themselves on Sunflower. Some of them were intended for a possible last album with Capitol that never came out. And, you know, there was a single, “Breakway,” that came out that year, too. So I guess we’ll start talking with the label soon about plans for the next round.


....So yes, Sunflower sounds probable.

My favorite BB's album. Hope for a physical release here too...such a disappointment on the download only crap from '68.

I’m f***ed then... I already got a virus:lol

Perhaps a psychical release (of Sunflower) would cure that. :-\

physical please;.. physical... with a beautiful booklet!

My bet would be a soundtrack for the upcoming documentary.

Hmm, I thought the download-only releases served just fine -- better than fine -- perfect. But hey, guess I'm just modern as heck

Still, that debate isn't quite key here. I'm wondering what this announcement is, and hoping it's a summer thing. Logic says a December release wouldn't be
advertised as early as summertime, I think.

Download is the only way some of that stuff is ever going to happen. Less overhead. We wouldn't have the HOURS of copyright extension stuff if they stuck to physical-only. How many hours of the "Live" 1968 stuff did they put out, and how many discs would that have taken? All for mostly the same setlist over and over. That's the *perfect* venue for digital releases.

For those into the audiophile aspect of it, I believe most if not all of these digital releases have also been relased in high-rez.

There's still a market for select physical releases, perhaps in the form of larger "deluxe" boxed sets.

But after all these years, where we're at the point where CDs are niche items at this point (even big box retailers like Target and even places like Barnes & Noble are *this* close to completely doing away with their CD sections), and frankly even *purchased downloads* are a bit antiquated in comparison to the swaths that stick solely to Spotify, we're long past the stage of expecting niche archival releases to *all* be released on CD.

Again, I expect we'll see some fancy deluxe BB physical releases (and CD, not just vinyl, which is mostly a marketing/collectible gimmick at this point) for select larger-scope archival projects.

"Sunshine Tomorrow" was actually a pretty good model. If they have something to hang a more mainstream physical release on, they can put out essentially a "first wave" of physical product, and then follow it up with HOURS of supplemental material digitally.

There is a great team in there working on this stuff now. Linett, Boyd, Edelson, and Jerry Schilling as well. We've gotten a TON of stuff just in 2017 and 2018 covering 1967/68/69, when we could have been faced with exclusively more of the "Sounds of Summer II: No, Really, It's Still Summer!!!" comps.

I halfway agree with you here. ALL of my boxsets have ended up in a box somewhere (even my absolute favorite set: the SMiLE set) - at this point I don't even know where they are...yikes! Also, the MIC set kinda bummed me out - the way the CDs are held it's obvious that if you pulled them in and out enough the CDs would easily scratch (unlike a plastic CD case), and my book is now warped in the back where the CDs go (just the one side, I'm thinking its just the way the book was put together). I get that some audiophiles want physical CDs. But frankly I can't even tell the difference between Apple's AAC digital streaming and FLAC for the most part. I personally don't need a physical CD to enjoy this music.

Honestly, the only time I get excited about a physical boxset anymore is if it comes with a vinyl or a book that is full of great pictures and content (ie, the SMiLE boxset). I love my physical sets but I don't need them. I'm perfectly happy with just the music.

However, my dream Sunflower set would consist of:

- One remastered vinyl LP
- Three compact discs (with digital download code)
     - disc one: original released album remastered and the Stephen Desper mix,
     - disc two: a cappella, instrumental tracks (with session tracks like the Pet Sounds Sessions set),
     - disc three: demos, outtakes, live versions.
- One 50 page book with pictures from the Sunflower cover photoshoot, interviews with the band, a 3 page essay about the recording of the album by Stephen Desper, etc.

All in a slim boxset package. I would buy it.

If I were designing a boxed set, I'd nix the vinyl component (they can still release that separately), and probably nix a remastered original album mix *only if* it meant more unreleased material could take its place.

"Sunflower" has already had a bunch of CD/SACD releases (1990 Caribou CD, 2000 Capitol CD, 2012 Capitol CD, and the Audio Fidelity CD/SACD hybrid).

Lots of CDs, and copious liner notes, essays, recording notes, and photos in a nice book. And a DVD if they can scrounge up enough video/film material to make it worth it. Which probably isn't the case for early 70s-era BBs.

Try to add some music to your day

I think it would have been worth the time to widdle the massive download of 1968 material to a two-disc set like "Sunshine Tomorrow"...then perhaps include a download card for "additional performances" since it is nearly the same setlist each time.

On top of this, making a sample set for streaming services (like the Bob Dylan bootleg series does) so people are more compelled to buy the sets. At the very least, make the album available on iTunes but not on streaming services for at least 2 months after release. There are complaints/worries that streaming is killing the likelihood of future releases, when, in my opinion, the record company can easily force fans to buy these sets.

Do we really want albums drip fed every year?

Think big. Brother Records Box Series!  :o

That'd be ace

I don't think the profit margin would have worked out on that. A 2-CD live '68 set wouldn't have even charted, and they'd be giving away that entire '68 live series of shows for the price of a 2-CD set. The digital download cost *more* than a 2-CD set. Their overhead would be significantly *higher* doing a physical release, and they'd be charging *less* per set since the digital release would have to be the same price as the 2-CD set.

The live '68 stuff is great, but apart from the London stuff (which obviously is almost a carbon copy of the "Live in London" album), the rest of it is taken not from multi-tracks but from live soundboard mono (or stereo, I can't recall) sources. In other words, they sound good, but have their limitations. That's not the type of material to do a prestige physical release. A huge cache of very similar '68 shows is the *perfect* example of where it makes sense to do a big digital-only release.

I suspect the main area where we'd see physical releases of any live material in the future would be either single, more famous shows (Carnegie Hall, or Paramount '93, etc.), or larger deluxe sets covering their entire career or, *maybe*, specific themes (e.g. a "4th of July" set).

My thinking was that, if they ever wanted to open up the "Digital Archive" further on live material, beyond the yearly copyright extension releases, a good way to do it would be to do a nice 5-CD (give or take) set featuring an overview of rare live shows spanning the early 60s through to 1997 or so (plus 2012), and then kick off a "Live Archive" where they'd release a few shows per month digitally.

The studio '68 sets would have been higher profile releases than the live stuff, and *those* didn't get a physical release. I think BRI and Capitol/UMe have to really pick and choose very strategic items to do as physical releases given the current market climate. I'd rather see them do digital releases with much cheaper overheard so they're not soured on releases when they don't sell a ton, and then that way when we do get a bigger prestige item like a potential "1970" ish boxed set, they might be able to jump into a more expensive, deluxe boxed set where there is a lot of overhead, but they're also more likely to bring in more money per fan from the major fan base via buying the larger boxed set.

I've always advocated for a larger archival program so that we don't have to wait until 2030 for KTSA outtakes. Like, the band members would literally be headed towards 95 years old by the time they got to BB '85.

That being said, we've gotten a pretty epic "drip feed" since 2017 especially. We got essentially around *four* discs of '67 studio outtakes in 2017, around *four more* discs worth of 1968/69 studio outtakes in 2018, plus many discs worth of a huge dump of presumably nearly all extant 1968 live recordings.

I think they can and should do strategic deluxe physical CD boxed sets with swag (nice books, etc.), but they can't really go much bigger on an individual set than something the size of "Made in California" or "The Smile Sessions", meaning 5-6 CDs or so. Once we start getting into big 25-CD boxed sets, even many hardcore completist fans will be priced out of it.

I think the best way to go would be to continue the "Copyright Extension" releases, and really then to mainly just *accelerate* and *broaden* the digital release schedule, doing more digital studio sets and at some point not waiting for the 50-year mark, and then also opening up the live archive for digital audio releases (and perhaps some video material as well, though costs there are significantly higher to get sync rights for the songs).

In the midst of an epic, sweeping archival release program, they could continue targeted, strategic truly "Deluxe" physical boxed sets highlighting the best and most noteworthy material. Beyond early 70s material, I think they could target a few other deluxe boxed sets. A Brian "Bedroom Tapes" set (using that term *very* broadly) could be viable. And a few others.

Alan and Mark ought to chuck into a Sunflower Box Set the '70 Country Album, that is if there will be one. It's an entire album of unreleased 70s backing tracks, with some vocals.

The only difficulty with this, is that Fred is quite adamant that it should be done in Nashville, and done properly, which is fair. Surely that's not an issue
for M&A, if they're serious about Brian's music, which of course they absolutely are -- no doubts there! :)

But I suspect that if Fred's not encouraged, he'll never see it through, as he's even said that perhaps it's best left a mystery album in the Brian canon, which I
find completely unthinkable. One of the points to these releases, is for some fairness to the Beach Boys, some justice I suppose.

Physical media is great, and I full advocate it being purchased (and nice physical BBs box sets being produced)... but that said, if it takes less (or no more) physical sets to be made in order for more tunes to be released, then so be it. That's the most important thing by far - quantity of tracks, getting as much out there into the world as possible. Emptying the vaults should always be prioritized over a box set. There's no way as much material as we saw recently released would have seen the light of day in a physical format. No way.

And maybe the business plan that we saw with Sunshine Tomorrow I and II is the wisest plan going forward. Some physical release to start, and then a followup with a digital-only release. Although even that plan makes me worry that if the physical set doesn't sell to expectations, that a digital follow-up set could get canceled. Make just dump everything digitally, and skip physical entirely, I dunno. I trust they're being smart about how they are proceeding. There's a market for this stuff no doubt, and maybe it's not in physical media, but there are fans who are interested who will gladly empty their wallets, even for mp3s.

And it's a good time to remind people to actually purchase the copyright extension albums, and not *just* stream them on Spotify! At first, I myself was just streaming them, but it's important to have a reality check. This is some of the greatest music ever made, and I think that many of us on this board are having some pretty mindblowing emotional experiences hearing these tracks being excavated. If we want these amazing outtakes to continue to be released for subsequent albums, we need to financially support the great work that Mark/Alan are doing if at all possible, even though streaming services like Spotify make it really easy to forget to do so. Even if someone has a "purchasing mp3s is just not my thing" type of mentality, they should just get over that and buy them anyway. It's for the greater good of more sets like this.

Very much agree with the first two paragraphs.

Also want to point out that yes, I imagine they get more money from people buying the set on iTunes. However they are still getting money when people play it on Spotify...and considerably more when people play it on Apple Music. It's not like Spotify/Apple Music don't pay the record companies money. And those who pay premium for streaming services are technically paying out of their pocket to listen to these tracks....of course buying the tracks outright is better, but it's not like using Spotify/Apple Music is financially similar to "fans" pirating the tracks like some shamefully do.

It is 2019.

I feel pretty confident in saying that the band and Capitol Records are getting pennies on the dollar for streaming revenue, as opposed to people actually purchasing mp3s. Capitol funds these types of projects not out of the goodness of their hearts, but to make a buck. I'm not calling streaming-only fans pirates, but it's a weird, murky era for the industry. It hit me, a few months back on this board after seeing Alan (I think?) ask fans to support these sets, and underscoring how necessary that support is for them to continue, that such a nudge by folks on the inside to fans should not be ignored.

I then realized I was being pretty silly by not having purchased the mp3s, as I would have in years past before streaming largely took over my own listening habits (as well as the habits of many/most music fans, it seems). Considering how much I love the music of this band, it should be a no-brainer that none of us should take the existence of these sets for granted.

So, I would tend to think that it will most certainly increase our chances of more, more, more in the way of wonderfully exhaustive sets for the early '70s era stuff (and beyond, if we're lucky) if more people purchased the mp3s as opposed to solely streamed them via Spotify type streaming-only platforms.

Bottom line, we all want more sets like these, and while Spotify streams are surely making *some* money for the projects, as fans the best that we could do in order to facilitate projects like these continuing would be buying mp3s. If I'm off base, let me know, but I feel quite sure this is the best course of action. Considering all the joy that these wonderful and historically significant nuggets that are being newly-released into the world bring to me, there's no way I would not want to support more of such product coming out as much as possible.

I don’t know all the ins and outs of how the industry operates, but certainly music streaming services have devalued music in terms of how the masses view it and certainly how they expect to pay for it.

It’s a bit surprising that music labels haven’t put a sort of gap between when an album comes out and when its available on streaming services. They do it in multiple different ways with movies. There’s a theatrical window, then a gap, then usually a window of a few weeks where the film can only be purchased (not rented) digitally, and then after that it’s available to rent digitally (and via VOD, etc.) and also via physical media. And then, usually a few months or more later, it makes it to the actual streaming services “for free” (meaning not actually “for free”, but as part of a subscription plan).

There’s no way music releases could have *that* many stages/tiers to each release. But I’m surprised the stuff ends up day-and-date on Spotify rather than at least putting a window in of a few weeks where it can only be *purchased* digitally or physically.

I think, at this point, the only place where actually real money is to be made on BB releases is to go “deluxe”, and that can happen in two ways. One way that I’m *not* a fan of is to do big, needlessly expensive vinyl reissues. It’s trendy, and it’s a “collecting” thing as much as anything else. I’m not opposed to vinyl, but it’s often now happening *instead* of CD releases. The other way to go is to do a big deluxe CD boxed set (which can also carry a digital component as well), targeted at collectors who still see value in the physical product. This type of fan is quickly fading, but there are enough that a big deluxe “1970” boxed set doesn’t have to move 100,000 units to make money because it’ll have a significantly higher price tag.

Not off base at all. I even said I'm sure they get more money from us buying the sets (which is obviously the more preferable route to financially support these sets). And obviously it is better when we buy the sets, no argument here. But I think it's only fair that people don't make it sound like streaming is something it isn't...when someone streams a song from the Sunshine Tomorrow set they technically are financially supporting the set (even though I agree, it is peanuts compared to outright buying the set). Put it another way: if I buy the set from iTunes and I also choose to stream the set through Spotify (for convenience when I'm away from my computer), I am making them even more money than if I just listened to the tracks that I downloaded from iTunes.

Also, completely agree with HeyJude's points...the fact that these sets come out on streaming services the day they are released is utterly ridiculous in my opinion. Either do a sampler (like Bob Dylan has been doing) or do a gap in release times. They (Capitol) want to make more money from these sets and there are pretty easy ways of forcing fans to do just that, in my opinion.*

There seems to be a huge disconnect between the reality of music sales and delivery in 2019 versus what people think is still a model from 20 years ago. Success in music sales is often determined by YouTube views and numbers on video releases versus actual product sales. Do any hip-hop artists release CD's anymore, and base their success on how many fans actually wait in line at a store when an album drops to walk out with a physical CD? It's all streams, views, and downloads.

And if you buy the set on iTunes, you simply connect via Bluetooth to your car system, your Bluetooth speaker, or the wireless headphones and listen. Same with streaming.

I'm just saying, and agreeing, that the entire music business changed in how music is sold and delivered (that's obvious, or should be obvious), like it or not. I think artists are getting royally screwed by streaming in a lot of cases, yet what about those artists who still make a good chunk of change within this new system, both indie and major-label? They adapted, and deliver music to their fanbases using the ways their fans get their music. I've spoken to record shop owners who got rid of CD's entirely, they won't even stock them. They couldn't give them away. That particular corner of the marketplace shifted to vinyl, for people who want physical product to take home. What is even more ironic is that fans are buying audiophile grade pressings of vinyl albums and playing them on cheaper self-contained systems often costing less than 100 bucks with plastic tonearms and low-grade cartridge/stylus assemblies that make audiophile grade vinyl insignificant. But if that's what people want, that's how it is.

If there are issues with people using streaming services and subscription services to get their music, don't blame the people who pay for those services. They're not pirates, they're not bootlegging, they're not stealing the music. They're paying a monthly fee to subscribe to these services. Like it or not, that's how many if not a majority of listeners today hear their music. If music hitting these services or YouTube simultaneous to being released as physical product is an issue, take it up with the labels who facilitate and plan all that, but don't look down on fans who are paying every month for that service. When some major artists did try to protest the royalty rates going to artists from Apple, Spotify, and other streaming networks to try boosting the percentages paid to the artists and writers, they were all but villainized and laughed at. Even the Beatles capitulated for less than I think they were aiming for after holding out for higher percentages paid per song.

It's a mess, isn't it?

It is one of my favorite albums. It came in at number 380 in Rolling Stone's Top 500 albums. But I think it should have made the top 200.

It should have made the top 20!

Agreed with your whole post. The part highlighted in yellow is something I never thought about. These days less and less people are using iTunes (not to be confused with Apple Music) - so the amount of people who look at the iTunes Charts dwindles more every year (thus the sales influence lessens amongst people who look at those charts and casually decide to buy charted tracks). So I'd also say that fans would be doing a disservice by not streaming these tracks and helping to chart albums/tracks on streaming services themselves (where they would pick up more and more listens as people checked out those charts)...And the more listens the more money the set is making.

Again I'll say: I think we as fans should buy these sets if we can afford them. However, I completely agree with Guitarfool about not looking down on people who do stream this stuff (especially people who pay premium to stream).

It definitely is a mess but I think the record companies could be doing a couple things themselves to put some extra money in their own pockets (and the pockets of the artists).

I'm assuming nothing yet has come of this...?

I'm thinking we'll hear about it in December...

The last December announcement I remember was for the C50....

Looks like everyone's diary is free as of March, too.

Not that there's any one litmus test for precisely when stuff would get announced, but look at something like Capitol/UMe's upcoming Beatles "Abbey Road" set. It was announced August 8th for a September 27th release. So it's possible that, even if a BB set does end up having a physical release component, it would only be announced maybe 5 or 6 weeks before its release date. So if it comes out in November or December, we might not hear about it until October or November.

And certainly, digital-only releases have had often zero lead time prior to announcement, if they get an "announcement" at all.

Don't get me thinking about a reunion that's not fair.

I'm pretty sure this will be about some sort of sunflower era release

I would say an announcement of an archival release is approximately 7,237% more likely than a reunion announcement.

Mike and Brian both have shows booked into 2020. Not that respective dates couldn't be rearranged or bought off if they wanted to do a reunion, but bookings for next year make it far less likely anything is imminent.

And really, I think unfortunately that the time has passed for a sort of *full blown* reunion (meaning an album and a world tour) to be feasible given everything going on with the various members and how they’re doing.

In the unlikely even that something materialized at this stage, I would imagine we’d be more likely to see *only* a studio project, and/or a hand full of shows or something.

Agreed. Especially with the state of Brian’s shows (sadly), though I would shell out the money if another reunion happened.

I’d be fine with either, or both.

NB: Maybe another reunion would re-energize Brian’s performances, not that I expect to happen though.

Another Reunion might also cause Brian to get his act together - can't phone it in when you're no longer the only top dog

He did for many years starting in the 70's. I would argue it's a lot easier to phone it in as you say when you are not the top dog.

Strongly doubt another reunion performance is coming.  Sunflower archival release much more likely...

Any word on a 1969 Release?

Nope

I'm on here every day checking

I agree. Plus it probably wouldn't be Mark Linett who announces a reunion as he is the one - along with Alan Boyd - who's responsible for the Beach Boys' archives afaik. A reunion would probably be announced by a press release from the management.

Good things are coming …

Nice....

Just in time for Christmas I hope  ;D

"ESQ Editor " "Good things are coming …"'

if it's contingent upon fan support of Mike Loves' songwriting induction

then you know where you can shove it

Mike deserves the induction.

they better not waste their time and money with a physical release then

If there was going to be a physical release, we probably would have heard about it by now.

They should do a limited pressing for the haddcores

Would sell out easily

I agree he does but I’m hoping this is about a 1969 set

...or it could be about upcoming Brian Wilson documentary.

Ah, I thought it was a comment about how he didn't. My mistake. Hope it's the 1969 set too.

Judging by the continuing speculation, I'm guess the alleged announcement is still upcoming, eh?  I also hope this is for a cool BB release, like a Sunflower box set.  I honestly don't care about a BW documentary.

With this late date, can it also be assumed that we have a digital release coming with hopefully a  cd/vinyl package following in the new year?  ::)

I can't be the only guy checking iTunes everyday waiting for what will no doubt be the best Christmas present I will receive this year!  Bring it on!  I love The Beach Boys!

I seriously hope they will bring it to us this Friday  :love

I was hoping for an announcement today....

I just noticed a live collection "Paris 1969" was on Napster and Amazon but I've been informed it's a gray market release from earlier this year, not a copyright extension release.

Oh no! I just went and bought 4 copies for some Christmas presents based on your post before it was edited!














 ;)

Maybe the recipients will enjoy a gray-market release with overdriven bass.  :)

 :lol :-D ;D

Every time this thread shows up in newest posts I get excited only to be let down

Same!!  :lol :lol

Me too, damn it.  >:(  ;D