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Smiley Smile Stuff => General On Topic Discussions => Topic started by: HeyJude on May 08, 2019, 11:52:44 AM



Title: The Beach Boys on "Happening '68" TV Show - "Wake the World" & "Do It Again"
Post by: HeyJude on May 08, 2019, 11:52:44 AM
This resurfaced on YouTube a few days ago. I hope it doesn't get pulled, but check it out just in case it does. The Beach Boys on the Dick Clark/American Bandstand sort-of offshoot TV show "Happening '68" doing "Wake the World" and "Do It Again":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LceRskkhDy8


Title: Re: The Beach Boys on \
Post by: Rocky Raccoon on May 08, 2019, 12:09:17 PM
I don't think I've ever seen a video clip of them performing "Wake the World" from this era.  Always find it weird to see them miming to a Brian vocal.  They could have at least done a live vocal to track and let Al sing it as he did in concert at the time.  Still cool to see rare footage like this.


Title: Re: The Beach Boys on \
Post by: HeyJude on May 08, 2019, 12:10:59 PM
I don't think I've ever seen a video clip of them performing "Wake the World" from this era.  Always find it weird to see them miming to a Brian vocal.  They could have at least done a live vocal to track and let Al sing it as he did in concert at the time.  Still cool to see rare footage like this.

I'm no expert on this show, but seeing as it how it was put on by Dick Clark Productions, and was a sort-of spinoff of "American Bandstand", it's not surprising that American Bandstand's SOP of 100% miming would carry over to this show as well.


Title: Re: The Beach Boys on \
Post by: Rocker on May 08, 2019, 12:16:31 PM
Never seen this! Thanks for sharing!


Title: Re: The Beach Boys on \
Post by: CenturyDeprived on May 08, 2019, 02:05:58 PM
That is SOOO weird, what a find. Thanks for sharing.

I'm not sure what is more disconcerting... Carl miming to a significant amount of Brian lead vocals (the whole song), or the really distracting and silly "skit" bit of Mike and Bruce sleeping and waking up.

Get it? Waking up? Wake the World? Huh huh huh. I hate to be a downer, but this just seems so scholcky and distracting to the song that's being played, as though someone in the band is craving attention and decided to concoct a whole unnecessary "skit" within a song.

- Was this sleeping "skit" something they ever did when they performed live concerts? Or just a one-off for this show?

- And is there a more extreme example of a BBs band member miming lead studio vocals of a completely different BBs band member? I just know of the 1981 (?) instance of Brian miming on TV to Carl's studio lead in Good Vibrations, and I'm also sure there are moments of Carl miming Brian's tiny studio lead parts within Good Vibrations. Not sure there are other examples?


Title: Re: The Beach Boys on \
Post by: HeyJude on May 09, 2019, 06:27:13 AM
That is SOOO weird, what a find. Thanks for sharing.

I'm not sure what is more disconcerting... Carl miming to a significant amount of Brian lead vocals (the whole song), or the really distracting and silly "skit" bit of Mike and Bruce sleeping and waking up.

Get it? Waking up? Wake the World? Huh huh huh. I hate to be a downer, but this just seems so scholcky and distracting to the song that's being played, as though someone in the band is craving attention and decided to concoct a whole unnecessary "skit" within a song.

- Was this sleeping "skit" something they ever did when they performed live concerts? Or just a one-off for this show?

- And is there a more extreme example of a BBs band member miming lead studio vocals of a completely different BBs band member? I just know of the 1981 (?) instance of Brian miming on TV to Carl's studio lead in Good Vibrations, and I'm also sure there are moments of Carl miming Brian's tiny studio lead parts within Good Vibrations. Not sure there are other examples?

While this footage is great to see, and it’s pretty rare, I don’t sense the BBs were helping the cause of being “cool” with the 1968 crowd here. I see this “bit” as an extension both of the sort of antiquated “American Bandstand” format, and also of the band’s sort of self-conscious state at the time of trying to be progressive but also kind of being stuck in the past. I mean, “Do It Again” kind of helps to sum that whole vibe up. It’s new, but it’s a throw-back. They have the old surfing stock footage going, etc.

As for the band miming to Brian’s parts when he wasn’t there, there are some late 60s TV shows with miming bits where this occurred. The Dutch TV show “Twien” had them miming to “Pet Sounds” material, with Carl miming Brian’s parts on “Sloop John B” and Al miming Brian’s parts on “Wouldn’t It Be Nice”:

Sloop John B - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0W4KkBwgP7c

Wouldn’t It Be Nice - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eCJ__o-0uzY

There are other 1968/1969 mimed TV appearances (Beat Club, others) where you see them miming to other Brian parts on songs like “Break Away”, “Do It Again”, “California Girls”, “Surfin’ USA”, etc.

All the way into 1990, the band was miming on Spanish TV. There is a video posted where they are clearly miming to “Barbara Ann”:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntntpYY-7vA

Whomever uploaded this video has clearly dubbed the “Party” studio track onto the video, so it’s unclear what they were *actually* miming to. The thing syncs up relatively well, so it’s possible they *were* miming to the ’66 version and the audio has simply been “upgraded” on this clip. Either way, it’s interesting to see such late examples of the band still miming.



Title: Re: The Beach Boys on \
Post by: MyDrKnowsItKeepsMeCalm on May 09, 2019, 08:23:31 AM
While this footage is great to see, and it’s pretty rare, I don’t sense the BBs were helping the cause of being “cool” with the 1968 crowd here. I see this “bit” as an extension both of the sort of antiquated “American Bandstand” format, and also of the band’s sort of self-conscious state at the time of trying to be progressive but also kind of being stuck in the past. I mean, “Do It Again” kind of helps to sum that whole vibe up. It’s new, but it’s a throw-back. They have the old surfing stock footage going, etc.

That's good insight. I'd say Wake the World is even more problematic in that sense, even if you can manage to set aside the 'guys waking up' schtick. I mean, I love the song, but it is decidedly NOT where the hip rock world or the country were going in 1968.



Title: Re: The Beach Boys on \
Post by: HeyJude on May 09, 2019, 09:04:59 AM
While this footage is great to see, and it’s pretty rare, I don’t sense the BBs were helping the cause of being “cool” with the 1968 crowd here. I see this “bit” as an extension both of the sort of antiquated “American Bandstand” format, and also of the band’s sort of self-conscious state at the time of trying to be progressive but also kind of being stuck in the past. I mean, “Do It Again” kind of helps to sum that whole vibe up. It’s new, but it’s a throw-back. They have the old surfing stock footage going, etc.

That's good insight. I'd say Wake the World is even more problematic in that sense, even if you can manage to set aside the 'guys waking up' schtick. I mean, I love the song, but it is decidedly NOT where the hip rock world or the country were going in 1968.



If nothing else, as amazing of a song as it is, "Wake the World" was a weird song to push as a single because it's so short.

The band wisely and effectively lengthened it to "normal" pop song length when they did it live in 1968-70.

I'm not enough of a pop culture anthropologist to really know what "demographic" different shows played to back in 1968. I tend to think "Happening '68" was a little more youngster/pop-oriented than, say, "Old Grey Whistle Test" a few years later. So light and fluffy pop stuff isn't a surprising thing to see on an American Bandstand-esque show.

For the life of me, I can't tell for sure if this "Happening" footage is inadvertently tinted B&W footage, or just *really washed out* color footage. I'd assume it was taped/filmed and broadcast in color, but I'm curious if this extant archival footage originated as color or B&W.


Title: Re: The Beach Boys on \
Post by: Lonely Summer on May 09, 2019, 10:45:19 PM
While this footage is great to see, and it’s pretty rare, I don’t sense the BBs were helping the cause of being “cool” with the 1968 crowd here. I see this “bit” as an extension both of the sort of antiquated “American Bandstand” format, and also of the band’s sort of self-conscious state at the time of trying to be progressive but also kind of being stuck in the past. I mean, “Do It Again” kind of helps to sum that whole vibe up. It’s new, but it’s a throw-back. They have the old surfing stock footage going, etc.

That's good insight. I'd say Wake the World is even more problematic in that sense, even if you can manage to set aside the 'guys waking up' schtick. I mean, I love the song, but it is decidedly NOT where the hip rock world or the country were going in 1968.



If nothing else, as amazing of a song as it is, "Wake the World" was a weird song to push as a single because it's so short.

The band wisely and effectively lengthened it to "normal" pop song length when they did it live in 1968-70.

I'm not enough of a pop culture anthropologist to really know what "demographic" different shows played to back in 1968. I tend to think "Happening '68" was a little more youngster/pop-oriented than, say, "Old Grey Whistle Test" a few years later. So light and fluffy pop stuff isn't a surprising thing to see on an American Bandstand-esque show.

For the life of me, I can't tell for sure if this "Happening" footage is inadvertently tinted B&W footage, or just *really washed out* color footage. I'd assume it was taped/filmed and broadcast in color, but I'm curious if this extant archival footage originated as color or B&W.
Happening '68 was definitely broadcast in color, but all that survives of it today is some grainy kinescopes. The nice folks over at The Video Beat have a few dvd's for sale, all b&w.


Title: Re: The Beach Boys on \
Post by: BBs Footage Saga on May 10, 2019, 05:05:36 AM
That video is from a DVD bootleg that I already had.

Ian already had that footage because I sent it to him.


Title: Re: The Beach Boys on \
Post by: HeyJude on May 10, 2019, 06:12:17 AM
That video is from a DVD bootleg that I already had.

Ian already had that footage because I sent it to him.

Yes, of course, I always assume that the vast majority of this type of footage has already been "out there" to some degree if it has popped up on YouTube.

But if someone shares it on YouTube, then about ten thousand percent more fans are going to get a chance to see it.

I would guess, based on the "dcma" bug on the screen on this footage (Dick Clark Media Archives) and the "Delilah Films" stamp (as well as the timecode, etc.), this footage may have been pulled by "dcma" for potential use in the "Endless Harmony" documentary. I'm trying to remember if there are any other BB-related projects done through Delilah Films. Maybe "The Lost Concert"?


Title: Re: The Beach Boys on \
Post by: HeyJude on May 10, 2019, 06:14:46 AM
Happening '68 was definitely broadcast in color, but all that survives of it today is some grainy kinescopes. The nice folks over at The Video Beat have a few dvd's for sale, all b&w.

Ah, that makes sense. What's interesting is that this footage has the "dcma" (Dick Clark Media Archives) bug, suggesting it was pulled for possible consideration to license to someone. So even the actual Dick Clark archives only have these near sepia-toned B&W kinescopes?

I recall hearing over the years that licensing footage from the Dick Clark operation is VERY expensive, which might be one of any number of reasons why this "Happening" footage didn't make it into "Endless Harmony" or whatever documentary it may have been intended for.


Title: Re: The Beach Boys on \
Post by: CenturyDeprived on May 10, 2019, 07:19:37 AM
Happening '68 was definitely broadcast in color, but all that survives of it today is some grainy kinescopes. The nice folks over at The Video Beat have a few dvd's for sale, all b&w.

Ah, that makes sense. What's interesting is that this footage has the "dcma" (Dick Clark Media Archives) bug, suggesting it was pulled for possible consideration to license to someone. So even the actual Dick Clark archives only have these near sepia-toned B&W kinescopes?

I recall hearing over the years that licensing footage from the Dick Clark operation is VERY expensive, which might be one of any number of reasons why this "Happening" footage didn't make it into "Endless Harmony" or whatever documentary it may have been intended for.

You'd think having his name sung in a Beach Boys song lyric, and Dick having written liner notes on the back of one of their early records, would have gotten the band on the discount list, so to speak, for bargain price footage licensing. I guess not. Too bad.


Title: Re: The Beach Boys on \
Post by: guitarfool2002 on May 10, 2019, 11:04:56 AM
Here is a little background information on "Happening '68" and a preview of a project I've been working on...basically a huge compilation of archival materials I found and have been collecting that need to be broken down and organized into topics and dates, etc. It's time to open the vaults and share this stuff. Stay tuned. Not sure yet if it will be done here or on a separate platform, but a trial run is coming soon.

Anyway...The Beach Boys appearance as shown on YouTube aired the weekend of August 17-18 1968 on ABC. Happening '68 was indeed a Dick Clark production, hosted by Mark Lindsay and "Paul Revere", geared toward kids and younger teens, that was shown early weekend afternoons or late mornings, depending on which TV market was airing it. There were fashion segments, music, comedy, and even a band contest where amateur acts could perform and possibly win a bunch of gear, studio time, and all that stuff. I have seen one report of the Lindsay/Revere hosting duo's comedy being corny, amateurish, etc. But the show premiered at the beginning of '68 as an offshoot of Dick Clark's "It's Happening" weekend show which was also an offshoot of his Bandstand, all shown on ABC stations across the US and again mostly weekend slots around the cartoon and rerun times when kids were watching. So that might explain the "humor" done for "Wake The World". The show was geared mostly toward kids.

Here are a few hits from the archives related to the show. First, the original announcement of the show, a report about "Happening '68" announcing the amateur band contest which *also* mentions the Beach Boys and Maharishi tour later in the same report, and an original TV listing for the clip we're watching on YouTube.

Also added a teaser for yet another "Happening" appearance in 1969 which I think will be of interest to fans here. Has anyone seen *that* tape?  ;D

I'll add more stuff on TV appearances from '68 here if there is an interest, and will soon have more material coming out. It's fun to see just how many TV appearances the band made in 1968, and sad how many of these are still lost or rarely if ever seen. What gets downplayed sometimes is how the band literally made all the usual TV rounds in 1968 into '69, and hit every major show including Carson, Bishop, Griffin, Sullivan, Douglas, Cavett, Hy Lit, Les Crane...and the impression is too often that their popularity was at a low during this time. If the actual bookings are any indication, they were still in demand as shown by the sheer number of TV spots they actually did which you'll see evidence of soon.

Enjoy.

(https://i.imgur.com/xm9T4Fe.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/f6TgCSb.jpg)

TV listing from August 17, 1968:
(https://i.imgur.com/AHbV9UZ.jpg)

A teaser or two for a later "Happening" appearance they labeled "Beach Boys Day" on the show, weekend of September 20-21 1969:

(https://i.imgur.com/Alp1FAW.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/nJiu7qm.jpg)



Title: Re: The Beach Boys on \
Post by: Emdeeh on May 10, 2019, 11:55:03 AM
Also added a teaser for yet another "Happening" appearance in 1969 which I think will be of interest to fans here. Has anyone seen *that* tape?  ;D

Back when the BBs appeared on "Happening" in 1969, I made a cassette audio tape of that show -- probably not even playable now, if I could find it again.

I wish there was some way to get that show released on DVD/BluRay and digital media, if it even exists on videotape.


Title: Re: The Beach Boys on \
Post by: HeyJude on May 10, 2019, 12:28:00 PM
Great info and background material. Can't wait to see a full repository of that sort of stuff.

I'd of course love to see that 1969 apperance as well, although purely from a "rare song" point of view, the '68 performance is more intriguing in terms of "Wake the World." Whereas, there are some other extant TV appearances of the band doing "Break Away" and "Cotton Fields" (are we to presume they'd be miming to the 20/20 version rather than the later single version?).

Also intriguing is that, if the show in '69 kept the "American Bandstand" ethos of miming, they must have still worked up some sort of new recording of "Johnny B. Goode" for that show.


Title: Re: The Beach Boys on \
Post by: CenturyDeprived on May 10, 2019, 12:44:20 PM
Great info and background material. Can't wait to see a full repository of that sort of stuff.

I'd of course love to see that 1969 apperance as well, although purely from a "rare song" point of view, the '68 performance is more intriguing in terms of "Wake the World." Whereas, there are some other extant TV appearances of the band doing "Break Away" and "Cotton Fields" (are we to presume they'd be miming to the 20/20 version rather than the later single version?).

Also intriguing is that, if the show in '69 kept the "American Bandstand" ethos of miming, they must have still worked up some sort of new recording of "Johnny B. Goode" for that show.

I can imagine that appearances like "Wake the World" (mimed) must have contributed to confusion about which BBs band member sang which song on studio recordings. Just when people might have thought they had the voices figured out, something like Carl miming Brian lead vocals must have been baffling.

How many other bands of the era had full lead vocals of a different band member mimed by someone else? I realize that miming is a sign of those times, but when it's a different person's voice being faked entirely, it treads dangerously close to Milli Vanilli territory  :lol


Title: Re: The Beach Boys on \
Post by: HeyJude on May 10, 2019, 01:04:50 PM
I don't think a ton of bands from that era had a main active studio member not out on tour or doing TV shows, so there probably aren't a ton of examples. Also, there aren't many if any bands as successful and famous as the Beach Boys that had such a large cast of rotating lead vocalists.

I always thought it was interesting that, even on C50, you would hear SEVEN different BBs singing leads (including the archival Dennis and Carl tracks), and as many as TEN total lead vocalists when Totten, Foskett, and Darian sang leads.

Something a tiny bit like that old BB footage that I can think of is a case of simple camera/editing issues, where the first part of "Can't Buy Me Love" from the "Around the Beatles" special focuses exclusively on *John* singing the song:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srwxJUXPHvE


Title: Re: The Beach Boys on \
Post by: metal flake paint on May 10, 2019, 05:02:54 PM
"Cotton Fields" from Happening '69 is played live and based on the 20/20 version. The performances of "Break Away" and Johnny B Goode" are also live.


Title: Re: The Beach Boys on \
Post by: Lonely Summer on May 10, 2019, 05:21:30 PM
"Cotton Fields" from Happening '69 is played live and based on the 20/20 version. The performances of "Break Away" and Johnny B Goode" are also live.

Wow, that must be only the second time an act played live on the show. Wilson Pickett was on the show the year before, and did 3 or 4 songs live. IIRC, Pickett insisted that he and his band play live, so Lindsay and Revere went to the producers and insisted that he be allowed to do so.


The timeline for the show posted above is slightly off - the show began as Happening '68 early that year, hosted by Lindsay and Revere, as a once a week show. In the summer, Revere, Lindsay, and soon-to-be-Raider Keith Allison hosted a Monday thru Friday spinoff called It's Happening. That ended when the kids went back to school in the fall. In '69, Happening '68 became simply Happening, and ran through September of that year.
 I'm a Paul Revere/Raiders fan, so I know all this stuff.
I think there was also an episode where the Beach Boys promo film for I Can Hear Music was shown. The group themselves was not on the show that ep.


Title: Re: The Beach Boys on \
Post by: Ian on May 10, 2019, 05:56:29 PM
For what it is worth I wrote two articles for esq on tv appearances by the BBs and discussed both of these. However I was not sure the footage survived and was therefore pleasantly surprised when the footage was shown to me. They also appeared on les crane twice that year (I am told that footage is gone), Carson tonight show twice (also allegedly erased according to Carson production people I contacted), as well as mike Douglas (good quality clips on YouTube) Ed Sullivan (on YouTube), David frost and the merv griffin show (I bet this footage exists but its never been booted)


Title: Re: The Beach Boys on \
Post by: Ian on May 10, 2019, 07:11:05 PM
Leaving out the Joey bishop show in 1968-I believe that footage has bit the dust


Title: Re: The Beach Boys on \
Post by: guitarfool2002 on May 10, 2019, 09:56:44 PM
I'll do this in separate posts - Scratching the surface for now, and what's to come later isn't solely about TV appearances. Lotsa stuff.  ;)

On the topic of "lost" or unseen/unbooted/etc TV appearances, specifically 1968, here are a few teasers of what was broadcast to fans in '68...

Joey Bishop Show, Friday Nov. 1 1968:

(https://i.imgur.com/ddYrQ2D.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/7xyafnc.jpg)

Les Crane Show (Disclaimer: Listed dates varied based on how and when individual markets and stations aired the show, not to mention reruns) :

Aug. 29, 1968 (rerun?)
(https://i.imgur.com/BlrwXCW.jpg)
June 28
(https://i.imgur.com/hgWJ0tz.jpg)
June 30 ***Note reference to the Maharishi getting "booed off the stage" in this listing***
(https://i.imgur.com/iT25Xb2.jpg)


Now *here* is a fun one to read. Thursday May 2, 1968...The Beach Boys in some regions could be seen on late-night TV on two separate shows, two different networks, simultaneously! Johnny Carson and Les Crane. The listing first, followed by one critic's negative reaction to this phenomenon  :lol

(https://i.imgur.com/4YExt82.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/xSvNJmt.jpg)

(Personal note: The BB's shared this May appearance with Richard Benjamin and Paula Prentiss, who were married in real life and had just starred in a way too short-lived sitcom called "He & She"...a show which was groundbreaking and seems a decade or so (or more) ahead of its time, and which is hilarious and adult unlike most sitcoms. If you can find it, watch what episodes are available! I would LOVE to see this Carson show with them and the BB's...sadly, it's gone unless it surfaces somehow in a stash...like the rest)

And a later Carson appearance Tuesday August 13:

(https://i.imgur.com/rWXz241.jpg)


And here are the really tantalizing ones, unless someone has them in a collection...because they're lost.

Hy Lit, Sept 68:

(https://i.imgur.com/Z1ZeXc4.jpg)

A real oddity, rarely mentioned (again, unless it exists somewhere)...Critic John Wasserman had a show called POW! in '68...and as you'll see in the listing and the announcement, he featured a "film" on the BB/Maharishi concerts alongside a chat about Yellow Submarine.

POW! (John Wasserman) Nov 3, 1968:

(https://i.imgur.com/s99IGBS.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/mvAe54j.jpg)

And then there is Dick Cavett.

From the Dick Cavett morning show, August 13 1968:

(https://i.imgur.com/P4x2nH4.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/D6QDz73.jpg)


Cavett's morning show tapes were, sadly, wiped and reused by ABC. Which means, as with those others above, unless one exists in an unknown stash of reels, the Beach Boys' appearance with Cavett is gone too. When Cavett went to late night replacing Joey Bishop (whose tape reels ABC *also* wiped and reused), Dick paid for his own reels of tape and got control over his archives, apparently very upset after ABC erased nearly all of his morning show reels...which is how and why Cavett's late-night run is so well archived and preserved. Carson began doing this after NBC did the same thing to him, and Carson's archives are, I think, complete from 1972 or so, close to if not all of his run after moving the show from New York to the west coast.


So that's a partial rundown, sad that most remain "lost" as in the network reels were reused or destroyed, or may exist in a collection as kinescopes and whatnot that hasn't been unearthed as of yet. But the Boys had a whale of a year in terms of TV appearances...as I said, they hit all of the big ones. I haven't even added the appearances where the tapes do exist...but they did hit pretty much all of the big shows.

So if the mythology or "facts" are that they weren't popular in 1968...look at the bookings. Twice with Johnny Carson within months...that was not easy to get. And Sullivan. And Bishop. And Merv. And Mike Douglas...

Oh, speaking of Mike Douglas, they were on his show twice too, in '68. This was one of them:

(https://i.imgur.com/mQHYGq0.jpg)

Enjoy.







Title: Re: The Beach Boys on \
Post by: CenturyDeprived on May 10, 2019, 10:56:07 PM
I'll do this in separate posts - Scratching the surface for now, and what's to come later isn't solely about TV appearances. Lotsa stuff.  ;)

On the topic of "lost" or unseen/unbooted/etc TV appearances, specifically 1968, here are a few teasers of what was broadcast to fans in '68...

Joey Bishop Show, Friday Nov. 1 1968:

(https://i.imgur.com/ddYrQ2D.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/7xyafnc.jpg)

Les Crane Show (Disclaimer: Listed dates varied based on how and when individual markets and stations aired the show, not to mention reruns) :

Aug. 29, 1968 (rerun?)
(https://i.imgur.com/BlrwXCW.jpg)
June 28
(https://i.imgur.com/hgWJ0tz.jpg)
June 30 ***Note reference to the Maharishi getting "booed off the stage" in this listing***
(https://i.imgur.com/iT25Xb2.jpg)


Now *here* is a fun one to read. Thursday May 2, 1968...The Beach Boys in some regions could be seen on late-night TV on two separate shows, two different networks, simultaneously! Johnny Carson and Les Crane. The listing first, followed by one critic's negative reaction to this phenomenon  :lol

(https://i.imgur.com/4YExt82.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/xSvNJmt.jpg)

(Personal note: The BB's shared this May appearance with Richard Benjamin and Paula Prentiss, who were married in real life and had just starred in a way too short-lived sitcom called "He & She"...a show which was groundbreaking and seems a decade or so (or more) ahead of its time, and which is hilarious and adult unlike most sitcoms. If you can find it, watch what episodes are available! I would LOVE to see this Carson show with them and the BB's...sadly, it's gone unless it surfaces somehow in a stash...like the rest)

And a later Carson appearance Tuesday August 13:

(https://i.imgur.com/rWXz241.jpg)


And here are the really tantalizing ones, unless someone has them in a collection...because they're lost.

Hy Lit, Sept 68:

(https://i.imgur.com/Z1ZeXc4.jpg)

A real oddity, rarely mentioned (again, unless it exists somewhere)...Critic John Wasserman had a show called POW! in '68...and as you'll see in the listing and the announcement, he featured a "film" on the BB/Maharishi concerts alongside a chat about Yellow Submarine.

POW! (John Wasserman) Nov 3, 1968:

(https://i.imgur.com/s99IGBS.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/mvAe54j.jpg)

And then there is Dick Cavett.

From the Dick Cavett morning show, August 13 1968:

(https://i.imgur.com/P4x2nH4.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/D6QDz73.jpg)


Cavett's morning show tapes were, sadly, wiped and reused by ABC. Which means, as with those others above, unless one exists in an unknown stash of reels, the Beach Boys' appearance with Cavett is gone too. When Cavett went to late night replacing Joey Bishop (whose tape reels ABC *also* wiped and reused), Dick paid for his own reels of tape and got control over his archives, apparently very upset after ABC erased nearly all of his morning show reels...which is how and why Cavett's late-night run is so well archived and preserved. Carson began doing this after NBC did the same thing to him, and Carson's archives are, I think, complete from 1972 or so, close to if not all of his run after moving the show from New York to the west coast.


So that's a partial rundown, sad that most remain "lost" as in the network reels were reused or destroyed, or may exist in a collection as kinescopes and whatnot that hasn't been unearthed as of yet. But the Boys had a whale of a year in terms of TV appearances...as I said, they hit all of the big ones. I haven't even added the appearances where the tapes do exist...but they did hit pretty much all of the big shows.

So if the mythology or "facts" are that they weren't popular in 1968...look at the bookings. Twice with Johnny Carson within months...that was not easy to get. And Sullivan. And Bishop. And Merv. And Mike Douglas...

Oh, speaking of Mike Douglas, they were on his show twice too, in '68. This was one of them:

(https://i.imgur.com/mQHYGq0.jpg)

Enjoy.







Thanks for doing that research, GF. Really fascinating stuff there.


Title: Re: The Beach Boys on \
Post by: Rocker on May 11, 2019, 02:56:43 AM
A DVD release of all TV appearances by the Beach Boys would be a very welcome (including "Monster Mash" from the "Lost concert"). But if not already done, there's probably a lot to be done in regards to searching through archives of TV stations etc. But it definitely would be a very cool and imo very important release. We don't have too much footage of the Boys from that era.


Title: Re: The Beach Boys on \
Post by: Ian on May 11, 2019, 06:16:16 AM
As I said-I have done some work on that-those particular Carson episodes were wiped-though it doesn't mean that someone doesn't have a kinescope taped off the TV.  I have audio of one of the two Carson appearances-singing Their Hearts Were Full of Spring.  Dick Cavett-wiped-as Guitar Fool notes.  Joey Bishop-they appeared twice on that show (Nov 1968 and Feb 1969) both erased.  I was happy to see that the 1968 Happening exists and I assume the 1969 one exists too (I have audio tapes of that appearance as well).  also-Sept 18 1968- Summer Scene with Brad David TV Show airs on WTIC TV in CT- with taped BBs performance.    Mike Douglas shows seems to exist-but two have not appeared on Youtube-May 9 1968 Mike Douglas TV Show, Philadelphia-Miming Friends and Little Bird and interview (audio exists and I have it)-probably taped in May around May 5-they are asked about student demonstrations.  Aug 29 1968- Mike Douglas TV Show, Philadelphia:  with Erskine Hawkins, Martha Raye, Jane Morgan and William F. Buckley Jr. Singing “Darlin”, “Wake the World” and “Do It Again” (clearly taped Aug 12-16-audio of this exists and I have it).  Mike Douglas asked them about Simon and Garfunkel-Mike says he likes what they’re doing and Do It Again- Mike-“It’s sort of a regressive song.  It goes back to our earlier surfing days.”  I did two articles about this in ESQ-which you should search out.


Title: Re: The Beach Boys on \
Post by: Jay on May 12, 2019, 12:41:42 AM
A DVD release of all TV appearances by the Beach Boys would be a very welcome (including "Monster Mash" from the "Lost concert"). But if not already done, there's probably a lot to be done in regards to searching through archives of TV stations etc. But it definitely would be a very cool and imo very important release. We don't have too much footage of the Boys from that era.
I think it would be really cool if the copyright extension releases extended to film footage as well. Perhaps that would be the best opportunity to see some of what's out there.


Title: Re: The Beach Boys on \
Post by: Jay on May 12, 2019, 12:48:12 AM
Speaking of tv appearances, several years ago somebody posted a short clip of the group singing an acapella portion of the song "Friends". I remember that the whole group was sitting down. The clip was in horrible quality, but it appeared to be in color. Does anybody have an idea of where and when the clip is from?


Title: Re: The Beach Boys on \
Post by: Ian on May 12, 2019, 11:08:23 AM
 My initial guess would be one of the unbooted mike Douglas appearances or merv  griffin-but without seeing the host it remains a mystery-doesn’t look like the tonight show though


Title: Re: The Beach Boys on \
Post by: guitarfool2002 on May 12, 2019, 11:40:41 AM
We discussed that appearance here several times in the past, I just need to track down those original conversations. It is *not* from any of the bigger, major network shows.


Title: Re: The Beach Boys on \
Post by: Rocker on May 12, 2019, 02:29:38 PM
Here is another upload with the Beach Boys miming to their recording. Other parts of this "performance" have been around, but I'd never see Good Vibrations:



The Beach Boys- "Good Vibrations" 1968 [Reelin' In The Years Archives]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VT_dANxQic


Title: Re: The Beach Boys on \
Post by: Pretty Funky on May 12, 2019, 03:04:23 PM
Speaking of tv appearances, several years ago somebody posted a short clip of the group singing an acapella portion of the song "Friends". I remember that the whole group was sitting down. The clip was in horrible quality, but it appeared to be in color. Does anybody have an idea of where and when the clip is from?

As mentioned, it’s been discussed before but nothing concrete. The particular ‘Friends’ clip linked no longer works.

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,17472.0.html


Title: Re: The Beach Boys on \
Post by: Ian on May 12, 2019, 03:14:55 PM
Well this clip is from the Dutch show twien from December 1968


Title: Re: The Beach Boys on \
Post by: RangeRoverA1 on May 12, 2019, 04:45:08 PM
This is really interesting read. Thanks to guitarfool & Ian! I didn't even suspect that BBs been at frequent demand by that time when they're deemed "unhip". Pity it seems the shows with BBs didn't survive. Would be especially interesting to see them at Joey Bishop. He's really funny as guest panelist in What's My Line?.


Title: Re: The Beach Boys on \
Post by: Ian on May 12, 2019, 05:07:37 PM
Yeah I’d like to see that too-it’s somewhat sad that pop history was once so disposable that they used to just wipe the tapes-very shortsighted attitudes.  I mean the network people didn’t even think the Beatles appearance on the tonight show in 1968 was one for the time capsule-it only survives in lousy quality filmed off the tv by a fan


Title: Re: The Beach Boys on \
Post by: HeyJude on May 13, 2019, 08:09:58 AM
A DVD release of all TV appearances by the Beach Boys would be a very welcome (including "Monster Mash" from the "Lost concert"). But if not already done, there's probably a lot to be done in regards to searching through archives of TV stations etc. But it definitely would be a very cool and imo very important release. We don't have too much footage of the Boys from that era.

Releasing footage (whether live or mimed) on video is far, far more expensive than audio copyright extension releases.

For audio releases, either BRI or Capitol owns the recordings, and then on the composition side they just pay a flat mechanical royalty rate for each composition.

For old film footage, especially old TV shows, all sorts of different companies own the footage (individual production companies, or the network, etc.), whether they have it in the "vaults" or even if it's just floating around in the ether among "collectors." So anybody (e.g. BRI) trying to release the footage has to pay to license the footage, and the rights holders can ask whatever price they want. As mentioned previously, Dick Clark Productions is notorious for charging a TON for footage (Bandstand, etc.).

There's also the issue of whether "releasable" archival materials can be found to transfer. If a bad VHS dub is all that's "out there", it's less likely to be released. Obviously, some entities have very clean, easily transferable libraries. Others, not so much.

Perhaps most cost prohibitive is paying for the "sync" rights for the music included. Unlike audio releases, video releases have to negotiate with the copyright holders of each musical composition. There isn't a flat rate; the holders can ask whatever they want. This is how some old TV shows (e.g. "WKRP in Cincinnati") that use a ton of popular music run into problems when they attempt to put them out on DVD. One song can cost millions.

With the BBs, there is some leeway in that they do own some of their later publishing, and any BRI-helmed project would presumably be able to clear *those* songs cheaply. But BRI would have to pay for "I Get Around" just like any other movie/TV production.

Now, when there are huge, deep pockets involved, it's not usually a big issue. When Apple did the "Beatles Anthology", I recall reports that many entities (e.g. local news stations, etc.) who owned footage totally stuck it to Apple and charged a TON for the footage (often times in retribution for past instance where stations attempted to do little piddly "retrospectives" using their old b-roll Beatles footage only to be warned off by Apple). But Apple could pay whatever most anyone asked. I've often heard they tended to forego licensing much "Ready Steady Go" footage because Dave Clark's company charged a ton for *that* footage.

The easiest things for the BRI to release on video would be concert footage where they own the actual footage and then some of the publishing. So the cheapest thing for them to release would be like raw in-house video footage from like 1977 and 1978 shows and stuff like that.

But a comp of 60s TV appearances would cost MILLIONS of dollars. The best bet we'd have is some entity like HBO or Netflix or Amazon funding production of a "Beatles Anthology" -type Beach Boys documentary where they'd be willing to pay for a lot of vintage footage clearances.


Title: Re: The Beach Boys on \
Post by: guitarfool2002 on May 13, 2019, 09:01:28 AM
In the case of the Dick Clark TV shows, I'm surprised something could not have been worked out regarding licensing/fees/usage because of two factors: Clark was a friend of the Beach Boys from the early days throughout almost their whole career, and clips of the band on his shows like Bandstand have been used in many compilations and documentaries through the years (and even TV infomercials selling oldies hits packages). So when there are appearances existing like these "Happening" clips, from the late 60's, among others, I don't think Clark would have tried to gouge the band in terms of charging crazy fees as other entities had done. But obviously there is more inside baseball involved in the process, and the quality of the clips may be an issue too, along with the fact that Clark himself is no longer around to make these agreements. But it would be nice to have included what remains of these later 60's clips in some official capacity.


Speaking of Clark, "Happening '68", and the clips posted in this discussion...it turns out this August episode of "Happening '68" was yet another "Beach Boys Day" program on "Happening '68" as in the clipping I posted from '69 where they did the same thing - Devoting a program to the Beach Boys. So alongside the clips on YouTube, the "Friends" promo film was also aired during the show.

Here's the article:

(https://i.imgur.com/jJ1D5pS.jpg)


Title: Re: The Beach Boys on \
Post by: Lonely Summer on May 13, 2019, 11:29:26 PM
I don't think Dick Clark was going to cut the Beach Boys any favors just because of their working relationship. DC also made it next to impossible for Paul Revere and the Raiders to license any footage from Happening, Where the Action Is, and Bandstand. It sucks that there is the archive of footage with most of the popular artists of the 50s and onwards just collecting dust somewhere. Who knows, maybe the tapes and films were buried with DC himself!


Title: Re: The Beach Boys on \
Post by: Jay on May 13, 2019, 11:45:17 PM
Why wouldn't the DC estate want to release things on their own? Do they figure the big money is charging inflated prices to license it to other companies? If people are actively avoiding dealing with them over pricing, then what's the point of just letting it all collect dust and deteriorate?


Title: Re: The Beach Boys on \
Post by: CenturyDeprived on May 14, 2019, 12:42:51 AM
I don't think Dick Clark was going to cut the Beach Boys any favors just because of their working relationship. DC also made it next to impossible for Paul Revere and the Raiders to license any footage from Happening, Where the Action Is, and Bandstand. It sucks that there is the archive of footage with most of the popular artists of the 50s and onwards just collecting dust somewhere. Who knows, maybe the tapes and films were buried with DC himself!

Boo.

The $25,000 Pyramid Scheme


Title: Re: The Beach Boys on \
Post by: HeyJude on May 14, 2019, 06:46:39 AM
I don't think Dick Clark was going to cut the Beach Boys any favors just because of their working relationship. DC also made it next to impossible for Paul Revere and the Raiders to license any footage from Happening, Where the Action Is, and Bandstand. It sucks that there is the archive of footage with most of the popular artists of the 50s and onwards just collecting dust somewhere. Who knows, maybe the tapes and films were buried with DC himself!

Yeah, I'm not sure Dick Clark, even while still alive and active, was necessarily intensely involved in individual deals regarding licensing of footage. Now or then, I'd assume it's just a business and the licensing would be negotiated as it would with anyone. I don't know that Clark's company would have gouged as in excessively overcharging compared to other potential licensees. It's just expensive from the get-go because of the prices they set.

I'm also not quite sure *how* friendly Clark was with the band. Obviously, they were friendly and the band (and Carl and Brian solo) visited Clark's shows many times into the 80s. But I don't know that they had a "call Dick Clark and get him to kick us down some free or cheap licensed footage" type of relationship.

I can't say I have intense personal knowledge of how things are, especially these days. I could envision the licensing fees being reduced over time considering the advanced age of both the artists and the potential audience for footage. I don't know how picky that company can be these days about charging for licensing out footage.


Title: Re: The Beach Boys on \
Post by: HeyJude on May 14, 2019, 06:56:14 AM
Why wouldn't the DC estate want to release things on their own? Do they figure the big money is charging inflated prices to license it to other companies? If people are actively avoiding dealing with them over pricing, then what's the point of just letting it all collect dust and deteriorate?

Two reasons Dick Clark Media Archives wouldn't just release the footage themselves.

Number one, they may not have the clearances from the artists to do anything beyond airing the footage on television.

Secondly, they may not have clearances from the owners of the recordings that bands mimed to. Remember that until its dying day, "American Bandstand" was almost always a miming deal, meaning artists would mime to their studio recordings. I would imagine they'd only get clearances to air the footage and audio on TV. They may or may not have even obtained a TV clearance in perpetuity.

Third, and probably most prohibiting, is that even if they had all the artist clearances and clearances from whomever owns the actual studio audio recordings, DCMA would *still* have to pay for sync rights to every song if they wanted to actually release this stuff on DVD. This would be quite cost prohibitive.

This is why other music-centric TV series have usually only seen "best of" compilations. So when they did a bunch of "Midnight Special" DVDs for instance, I think they only included one or two songs from the Beach Boys' 1979 appearance.

My recollection is that, not too long ago, I noticed that there were bunch of "American Bandstand" interview clips posted by DCMA (or some related entity) sans the actual musical portions.

So, it's possible that DCMA could release all the non-musical footage they want. But nobody would want to buy DVDS of just interviews from these shows. As it is, mimed performances would have less potential interest from home video distributors and customers/fans than actual live performances. Especially in cases from eras well after the 60s where the inherent rarity of the respective footage isn't as much of an issue. If some 80s band was all over MTV and other TV shows, performing live and miming, and then also did "American Bandstand", there's not as much interest in their "American Bandstand" footage compared to rare 1968 Beach Boys footage.

I reference "American Bandstand" loosely, because DCMA obviously owns a bunch of other footage as well. Other Dick Clark-produced vintage shows, and also I believe they own stuff like the Beach Boys' "One Man's Challenge" footage.


Title: Re: The Beach Boys on \
Post by: guitarfool2002 on May 14, 2019, 06:57:59 AM
What does not make sense - again minus knowledge of the inside baseball of the process - is how one of the most often used and seen vintage Beach Boys video clips came from Dick Clark's Bandstand. And that appeared, as I said earlier, in everything from "official" docs to infomercials and beyond. So obviously the fees for rights to use that Bandstand footage with the Beach Boys wasn't high enough that producers wouldn't use it. The same folks more or less control this other footage we're discussing.


And honestly seeing these "Happening" appearances from 68-69 would be great, yes, but meanwhile there is roughly 45-50 minutes of Good Vibrations session footage from 1966 that is more historic and I'd say valuable for fans of the band and music fans in general which is unavailable to see years after it was discovered. Why is that? I'd rather see that over the Boys miming. But we can't see it.


Title: Re: The Beach Boys on \
Post by: HeyJude on May 14, 2019, 07:03:00 AM
And honestly seeing these "Happening" appearances from 68-69 would be great, yes, but meanwhile there is roughly 45-50 minutes of Good Vibrations session footage from 1966 that is more historic and I'd say valuable for fans of the band and music fans in general which is unavailable to see years after it was discovered. Why is that? I'd rather see that over the Boys miming. But we can't see it.

I can only speak for myself, but I'm not advocating for a huge movement to prompt release of "Happening" footage. It just popped up on YouTube and is interesting stuff. I don't expect or anticipate a glut of Clark-produced BB content being officially released. Especially at this juncture.

Have we established who owns the "Good Vibrations" raw film footage? Obviously, BRI used it back in 2012. Do they own it now? If so, that's a much easier deal. BRI could release it themselves, and could probably relatively easily work with Capitol/UMe to get some audio to accompany it in some way.

But there also has to be a venue to release it. I mean, I guess they could just dump a "Raw Good Vibrations Session Footage" file on iTunes and Amazon and sell it. But typically, they'd use the footage to underline some sort of documentary. If they really have over 45 minutes of solid footage (meaning not 27 minutes of Hal Blaine tightening and loosening his hi-hat, and meaning not stuff chopped into like 1-second blips), a 60-90 minute doc on the history of "Good Vibrations", working in interviews with the band, etc., would probably be the best use and presentation of that footage.  


Title: Re: The Beach Boys on \
Post by: guitarfool2002 on May 14, 2019, 07:06:41 AM
Have we established who owns the "Good Vibrations" raw film footage? Obviously, BRI used it back in 2012. Do they own it now? If so, that's a much easier deal. BRI could release it themselves, and could probably relatively easily work with Capitol/UMe to get some audio to accompany it in some way.

But there also has to be a venue to release it. I mean, I guess they could just dump a "Raw Good Vibrations Session Footage" file on iTunes and Amazon and sell it. But typically, they'd use the footage to underline some sort of documentary. If they really have over 45 minutes of solid footage (meaning not 27 minutes of Hal Blaine tightening and loosening his hi-hat, and meaning not stuff chopped into like 1-second blips), a 60-90 minute doc on the history of "Good Vibrations", working in interviews with the band, etc., would probably be the best use and presentation of that footage. 

They could easily do any number of things with it along the lines of what you just said. It was even screened at a fan convention in recent years. Meanwhile it sits unused and generally unseen outside of that convention while I'm sure there would be a demand for it even beyond the BB's hardcore fan base. Yet fans can't see it.


Title: Re: The Beach Boys on \
Post by: HeyJude on May 14, 2019, 07:10:38 AM
What does not make sense - again minus knowledge of the inside baseball of the process - is how one of the most often used and seen vintage Beach Boys video clips came from Dick Clark's Bandstand. And that appeared, as I said earlier, in everything from "official" docs to infomercials and beyond. So obviously the fees for rights to use that Bandstand footage with the Beach Boys wasn't high enough that producers wouldn't use it. The same folks more or less control this other footage we're discussing.

Yeah, I don't think the idea is that it's always prohibitively expensive to license Clark-owned footage. I was only saying previously that, from what I've heard, it's known to be among the more expensive rights holders to license footage from. Clearly, some docs (including BB docs) have licensed some footage. I think it's just a matter of budget. The "One Man's Challenge" footage of the Marks era band that DCMA owns for whatever reason is really the only truly *key* footage DCMA owns that a BB doc should include if at all possible. Pretty much everything else the band did on Clark's show isn't something that would *have* to be in a doc. The "Don't Worry Baby" footage is important (perhaps more for the interview than the mimed performance), but not an absolute *must* for a long-form BB doc. And most other footage, whether the 60s "Happening" footage or the numerous late 70s and early 80s miming jobs they did on Bandstand would be needed for a doc. They don't need to pay a high fee to license footage of the band miming "Sumahama" from 1979, or the Carl-less band going off the rails at the "35th Anniversary" show in 1981/82.


Title: Re: The Beach Boys on \
Post by: Ian on May 14, 2019, 01:13:35 PM
The surprising thing is that as far as I can tell that don’t worry baby appearance was the BBs only appearance on bandstand between 1962 and 1978! You’d think they would have played that show many times-though as I quote in my book the BBs were very critical of that miming appearance


Title: Re: The Beach Boys on \
Post by: CenturyDeprived on May 14, 2019, 01:51:29 PM
Little Richard sang it and Dick Clark brought it to life
Dick's company owns the rights, the no "friend discount" rule stuck as sharp as a knife
Well now do you remember all the corporate suits hoarding footage of our rock and roll

(Doesn't have quite the same ring as the original lyrics, but it's more accurate)


Title: Re: The Beach Boys on \
Post by: guitarfool2002 on May 15, 2019, 06:06:18 AM
The surprising thing is that as far as I can tell that don’t worry baby appearance was the BBs only appearance on bandstand between 1962 and 1978! You’d think they would have played that show many times-though as I quote in my book the BBs were very critical of that miming appearance

As in appearing "in person" on AB, yes it was pretty sparse - But consider how many times their records were spun on the show on a weekly basis as well as (and I don't know how many were actually aired in total) the various promo clips being aired, and it's not like the band wasn't a presence on the show. They weren't the first, but after the Beatles started filming and sending promo clips to shows like Bandstand for them to air and promote a new single, other bands did it too - And the bigger names like Beatles, Beach Boys, etc would have these shows airing such clips because of the demand from their audiences.

And as shown in those two clippings I posted here, the Dick Clark produced "Happening" shows gave the Beach Boys two consecutive "Beach Boys Day" episodes to promote the group's latest releases in 68-69, and I doubt for example these shows had something like a "1910 Fruitgum Company Day" in comparison... :lol

Notable too that the "Friends" promo clip was aired on the Aug '68 broadcast...not having looked at a full rundown of Bandstand's weekly content and schedule, I'm wondering just how many Beach Boys promo clips were shown on the regular Bandstand broadcasts during the 60's. If they aired "Friends" on Happening, I'm assuming it appeared on Bandstand too? Dick Clark ran both programs.


Title: Re: The Beach Boys on \
Post by: HeyJude on May 15, 2019, 06:24:01 AM
The surprising thing is that as far as I can tell that don’t worry baby appearance was the BBs only appearance on bandstand between 1962 and 1978! You’d think they would have played that show many times-though as I quote in my book the BBs were very critical of that miming appearance

I also have to wonder if the Beach Boys remembered the other big circumstance of their "Don't Worry Baby" appearance in 1964, which I didn't know until the late 90s or early 2000s when VH1 aired that *entire episode*. Why did they air that entire episode? It was part of a Beatles-themed week of programming on VH1. Was the episode actually Beatles themed? Yep.

Despite the fact that the Beatles rather *infamously* never agreed to appear on "American Bandstand" (which I can only imagine irked Clark back then), that episode in 1964 was a "Beatles Day" themed episode, with most of the episode devoted to spinning Beatles tunes and whatnot (I can't recall what other Beatles-themed things they did on the show). Then, smack dab in the middle of a "BEATLES" episode, they have the *Beach Boys* doing "Don't Worry Baby."

https://www.metacritic.com/tv/american-bandstand/season-7/episode-30-the-beach-boys-tribute-to-the-beatles

Between being shoehorned into a "Beatles" episode of Bandstand, and agreeing to do a movie ("Girls on the Beach") whose main plot was everybody in the movie being bent out of shape that the *Beatles* weren't turning up to do a show (having the Beach Boys and Leslie Gore, etc. didn't seem to placate them), this had to have been at least a bit frustrating for the band.

I would imagine indeed that Bandstand likely aired some BB promo films, as they did the same with Beatles films from time to time.


Title: Re: The Beach Boys on \
Post by: guitarfool2002 on May 15, 2019, 06:25:51 AM
Semi-off topic, and I know the answer is probably out there already but I don't have any resources in front of me at the moment:

We've all seen the Beach Boys appearing on Ed Sullivan in '64 (I Get Around, Wendy) and in '68 (Do It Again, Good Vibrations)...what happened in May 1965? They were scheduled to appear on Ed's show May 16th, it was promoted and listed as such, I remember Keith Badman's book even listed them as playing "Help Me Rhonda" on that date...so what happened?


Title: Re: The Beach Boys on \
Post by: guitarfool2002 on May 15, 2019, 06:59:48 AM
Re: The Beach Boys on Bandstand, April 1964.

That show was promoted and advertised as an "All Beatles Show" at the time, and quite obviously too. It mentioned a phone interview with the group, as well as Clark spinning their records. So any kids in April '64 would see that and think it was an all Beatles show. How the Beach Boys ended up stuck in that same show, unlisted, is a mystery.

But something happened later in July '64 that *may* explain it a bit. There was obviously backlash among American acts as this "British Invasion" was hitting the US. It affected Dick Clark and Bandstand to the point where he had made a promise on the show to give "equal time" to promote and feature both Elvis and The Beatles. And so he did, in early July Bandstand did an "Elvis Day" episode, and a few weeks later in promoting "Hard Days Night" they did a Beatles Day.

I could be assuming too much, but as various programmers, stations, and shows like Clark's would have been taking heat at the time for possibly shutting out American acts (and there was a point to the criticism, IMO) perhaps Clark and his team thought it would be a positive for the Beach Boys to put them on in the middle of a Beatles-themed show which was guaranteed huge ratings at that time to remind the kids what "we" had to offer and give the Boys some promotion to the bigger audience numbers, or to give an American band some time for promotion too.

Just a thought.

Worth noting too is how Clark had moved Bandstand from Philly to Los Angeles just over two months before the BB's appeared, and had said specifically he wanted to continue what became a huge feature of his Philly-based Bandstand, where the kids on the show would demonstrate and do new dances to the records. This was a bigger feature in the 50's on the after-school Bandstand than I think many realize who don't know about it, but it was a major part of the show that made celebrities out of a group of regular kids from Philly who could dance. So Clark said he wanted to continue that after the move and feature "California" style dances on the new Bandstand.

So that explains why there was some kind of dance about surfing with the band on the show...If I'm remembering correctly what happened on that show.


Title: Re: The Beach Boys on \
Post by: HeyJude on May 15, 2019, 08:33:49 AM
Semi-off topic, and I know the answer is probably out there already but I don't have any resources in front of me at the moment:

We've all seen the Beach Boys appearing on Ed Sullivan in '64 (I Get Around, Wendy) and in '68 (Do It Again, Good Vibrations)...what happened in May 1965? They were scheduled to appear on Ed's show May 16th, it was promoted and listed as such, I remember Keith Badman's book even listed them as playing "Help Me Rhonda" on that date...so what happened?

Ian R. posted recently in one of his "This Day in History" posts that the Beach Boys got axed due to the show running long, and they never got rescheduled:

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,26566.0.html

They were apparently going to do "Rhonda" and "Graduation Day."

It would be interesting to see what *did* make the cut on that episode, and if there was truly nothing in that episode that could have been cut to make way for like five minutes of BB performance.

Here's are some rundowns of the content of the episode (accuracy not guaranteed of course):

http://www.tv.com/shows/the-ed-sullivan-show/may-16-1965-petula-clark-rudolf-nureyev-and-margot-fonteyn-alan-king-sue-carson-108596/

https://www.metacritic.com/tv/the-ed-sullivan-show/season-17/episode-33-may-16-1965-petula-clark-rudolf-nureyev-margot-fonteyn-alan-king-sue-carson

Music: --Petula Clark sings "I Know a Place" & "Heart." --The West Point Glee Club - sing a medley of Civil War songs ('When Johnny Comes Marching Home," "Tramp, Tramp, Tramp (The Boys Are Marching)," "Yellow Rose of Texas," "Tenting Tonight," "Dixie" and "The Battle Hymn of the Republic") and Irving Berlin's "This Is The Army Mr. Jones."Dance: --Rudolf Nureyev and Margot Fonteyn (ballet dancers) dance the the pas de deux from "Swan Lake."Comedy: --Alan King (stand-up comedian) - routine about little league baseball players and their overbearing parents.--Sue Carson (comedienne) sings a parody of "King of the Road" and impersonates female folk singers with "Talent Is In Demand."Also appearing: --The Elwardos (balancing act) --Ugo Garrido (foot juggler)


I know it's easy for *us* to see the West Point Glee Club and foot jugglers and say *of course* room should have been made for the BBs. But I know the show was playing to a broad audience. But it is odd they couldn't have found room and bumped something else. Or, could they have pre-taped the BBs and aired it on another date? I know they didn't do that often, but they of course famously did pre-tape the Beatles a few months later in 1965 for later airing for their only 1965 appearance on the show.


Title: Re: The Beach Boys on \
Post by: guitarfool2002 on May 15, 2019, 10:21:04 AM
Thanks for the info and reminder - Yes, credit to the Sullivan show for showcasing as many rock and Motown acts as they did through the years...among other genres of course, but on this show they made a seriously bad choice on what to cut. The Beach Boys were one of the hottest bands at that time, and they got cut for what did air? It's almost hilarious. At least they didn't get bumped for Topo Gigio or a dancing bear from Russia that night.  ;D


Title: Re: The Beach Boys on \
Post by: MyDrKnowsItKeepsMeCalm on May 15, 2019, 11:36:50 AM
Thanks for the info and reminder - Yes, credit to the Sullivan show for showcasing as many rock and Motown acts as they did through the years...among other genres of course, but on this show they made a seriously bad choice on what to cut. The Beach Boys were one of the hottest bands at that time, and they got cut for what did air? It's almost hilarious. At least they didn't get bumped for Topo Gigio or a dancing bear from Russia that night.  ;D

There is something kind of Spinal Tap about the situation. "If I told them once, I told them a hundred times to put 'Beach Boys' first and 'Foot Juggler' last!"



Title: Re: The Beach Boys on \
Post by: Lonely Summer on May 15, 2019, 11:04:52 PM
It's easy for us younger folks to forget how anti-rock the establishment was in 1965. Rock music on network tv was still seen as a necessary evil. But it's still surprising that the Sullivan show would cut the Beach Boys appearance - knowing that they were probably the biggest draw on the show that week.


Title: Re: The Beach Boys on \
Post by: Ian on May 16, 2019, 05:38:43 AM
You don’t have my book right? I discuss that Ed Sullivan no show there


Title: Re: The Beach Boys on \
Post by: Ian on May 16, 2019, 05:40:51 AM
You don’t own my book right? I discuss the Sullivan no show


Title: Re: The Beach Boys on \
Post by: Ian on May 16, 2019, 05:45:27 AM
My source was Carl’s buddy Ron swallow, their roadie, who had vivid memories of those New York trips


Title: Re: The Beach Boys on \
Post by: guitarfool2002 on May 17, 2019, 08:31:38 AM
You don’t have my book right? I discuss that Ed Sullivan no show there

You don’t own my book right? I discuss the Sullivan no show

 :lol  Nice

Should I post a pic of it?   ;D

I own hundreds of books, counting magazines - thousands. My memory is solid but not photographic, and I have not read all of these books cover to cover. I came across a blurb advertising that Sullivan show and couldn't recall details but thought I had seen something about it. I was not able to reach over and grab a book for reference when I posted. So I asked, and got a reminder. Simple as that.

As far as it being in the book, thank you for the reminder. I shall check it out when I can - It's a great book. But keep in mind too, since the comment was "you don't own" and "you don't have" my book...this week alone I have had and will have rehearsals for a student concert, rehearsals for a jazz gig, a studio session, and the usual weekly schedule. And that adds up to at least 50-75 or more songs I have in my head for this week alone, with more to come. So I don't have instant recall of what I may have read about a failed Sullivan appearance in '65 or where I read it over the past 5 years.

What an assumption about anyone owning or not owning a particular book has to do with the discussion, you'll have to fill me in on that one. "It's in my book" would be just as effective, if not more.  ;)


Title: Re: The Beach Boys on \
Post by: Ian on May 17, 2019, 11:46:13 AM
Ah...I certainly didn’t mean it that way-just meant that I did talk about it there


Title: Re: The Beach Boys on \
Post by: Ian on May 17, 2019, 11:58:31 AM
Anyways the gist is that Ron recalled that the BBs traveled to New York And Brian met them there. They rehearsed but then were told that the show was running long and they would be rescheduled but it never happened. I wonder if rehearsal footage was shot. If you are a Beatles fan you may be aware that footage of the dress rehearsal for their Miami Sullivan show exists but that may be the exception not the rule. I always wondered if the photos of the BBs clowning in gold lame suits backstage was from this appearance but could never confirm it-even though I talked to the photographer


Title: Re: The Beach Boys on \
Post by: HeyJude on May 17, 2019, 12:27:36 PM
Anyways the gist is that Ron recalled that the BBs traveled to New York And Brian met them there. They rehearsed but then were told that the show was running long and they would be rescheduled but it never happened. I wonder if rehearsal footage was shot. If you are a Beatles fan you may be aware that footage of the dress rehearsal for their Miami Sullivan show exists but that may be the exception not the rule. I always wondered if the photos of the BBs clowning in gold lame suits backstage was from this appearance but could never confirm it-even though I talked to the photographer

There are also continual rumors that the dress rehearsal for the *1965* Beatles Sullivan appearance exists somewhere, but it of course hasn't surfaced.

As I mentioned before, the Beatles pre-taped that '65 appearance a month or so in advance. I'm guessing this wasn't too common either, but one has to wonder why the Sullivan show didn't do this for the BB's appearance earlier in the year. Maybe they thought it was more likely the BBs would reschedule. Or maybe they just made an exception for the Beatles because they were so huge.


Title: Re: The Beach Boys on \
Post by: Ian on May 17, 2019, 02:28:23 PM
I'd go with the second explanation-As you may know-Sullivan was so intent on Beatles content that he even agreed to fly to England to visit the Beatles on the set of Hard Days Night to get more Beatles content in 1964.  As much as I love the BBs-they just weren't in the same league in terms of phenomenon status in 1964 or 1965.


Title: Re: The Beach Boys on \
Post by: HeyJude on May 17, 2019, 02:44:02 PM
I'd go with the second explanation-As you may know-Sullivan was so intent on Beatles content that he even agreed to fly to England to visit the Beatles on the set of Hard Days Night to get more Beatles content in 1964.  As much as I love the BBs-they just weren't in the same league in terms of phenomenon status in 1964 or 1965.

Definitely. I also wonder if the band's 1964 appearance didn't exactly warm the producers to plentiful additional appearances. Their "I Get Around" performance was fine, but while "Wendy" was performed adequately apart from a biffed guitar intro, their performance of "Wendy" in particular was much less dynamic, and much more sparse, than any of the Beatles performances. A good amount of girls screamed for Dennis (and then somewhat less for Mike, then less for Brian, a few for Carl, and crickets for poor Al), but I'd say even other 1963-64-65 live TV appearances from the band sounded (and looked) better than their Sullivan show appearance.


Title: Re: The Beach Boys on \
Post by: guitarfool2002 on May 21, 2019, 09:54:20 AM
Ah...I certainly didn’t mean it that way-just meant that I did talk about it there

Cool, I guess I read it the wrong way.

For the record, I'll always recommend your book as one of the must-have's for fans interested in the history, along with going to your website as a resource for similar info. Top-notch research and listings, a standard set very high. Also on the record I was upset not to see your name listed or credited on the most recent copyright extension release, unless it was and I missed it.



Title: Re: The Beach Boys on \
Post by: guitarfool2002 on May 21, 2019, 10:01:58 AM
I don't think the quality of the BB's earlier Sullivan performance was a big factor in bumping them, if it was a factor at all. Their first performance was pretty much in line with a lot of other bands apart from the Beatles around that same time. It's the real diehard fans that would pick up the little flubs and miscues almost 60 years after the fact - Not the people watching on a TV in 1964 with a smaller screen, spotty reception, one mono speaker about 3 inches wide, and either rabbit ears antennas or some metal monstrosity of an antenna anchored to their roof. And remember they did extra set design efforts for that first appearance, including bringing in those actual custom hot rods onto the set after Brian saw them at a car club and show and requested they be brought into the Sullivan set.

That's going pretty far for a band of kids in their early 20's I'd say.

The only thing with 1964 and 1965 is of course the British Invasion...and how managers like Brian Epstein were doing what was previously the impossible: Hustling Ed Sullivan in terms of booking other bands by piggybacking other "Mersey" and British acts as conditions for booking the big names like The Beatles. And Sullivan was no fool in terms of booking acts that would increase his numbers.

Which is again why deciding to go with foot-jugglers and a military chorus doing a medley of Civil War songs versus who was the most prominent American pop/rock band of that time is a real head-scratcher of a boneheaded decision.