The Smiley Smile Message Board

Look how thin Brian briefly got last Xmas. He looks heavier again recently
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05353/624533-129.stm

Damn but that's a depressing interview - obviously one of Brian's bad days. Also depressing for some of the content.

And maybe this is me, but isn't it scary that we can now date photos of Brian by his teeth ?

Those teeth look TOO white, very unnatural, as if the photo was 'shopped.



 :-\

It is sad the artistic results have been (in my eyes) pretty good since 99 but I don't think Brian "Wanted" to do any of it. He is a man in his 60s if he wants to retire let him.

No doubt, although I don't think that Brian necessarily doesn't WANT to make music...I think it's more along the lines he doesn't care what he does ,in any shape or form.

I think Brian does like making music, and sure he probably is happy to be so well liked. The point is why make him tour or record if he doesn't want to. The Paley sessions were his idea, maybe Love You, Spring, and all the albums through Sunflower had him working out of desire too. Yet as happy as I am to have seen him live and to have Smile as finished as it is ever gonna be, I hate that he is pushed into anything. He has paid his dues.

This has been gone over many times, but here it is again--

Brian is a complex person. He has said a lot of things that make everything seem a lot worse than it is. He says he hates performing, but he loves it when he's finally on stage and getting the love from the audience. He would not, in all probability, make goals for himself like finishing SMiLE, but once he's through the process he's much happier.

I'd think it would be much worse of Melinda (and DL) to simply let Brian veg out, which is what he did for thirty-odd years. It's quite possible that he would no longer even be alive if he hadn't got up off his behind and got into touring, recording, writing, etc.

And you know what? He knows it. He does complain publicly, as Charles says, on his bad days.  But, she wouldn't be much of a wife if she didn't prod him to achieve. Brian needs that Murray-like quality from her. He's always relied on being pushed, to a certain extent.

Where's David Leaf and his books about how Brian is being paraded as caged bear when we need him?   :-D

My guess is that he likes making music more than he does doing interviews.

It  depends on what Melinda's real motivations are. We don't know the whole story...well, some of us do, and just can't say nothing due to confidentiality. Let's just say things are not what they seem. Finding out the real truth is like playing leapfrog with a unicorn...difficult and quite painful.

Murry may have been a product of his upbringing and he was VERY wrong to sell to A&M and I can understand why Mike and Brian went through mental anguish after they found out but..... I think he was the only one who really had Brian WANTING to succeed. Even if he had to make him mad, it worked. I think unlike Landy and those to follow he did at least try to have Brian's best interests at heart. I am not saying Brian should rot and die doing dope and eating five steaks for dinner, all I mean is that if a man who is well past 60 wants to retire he should be allowed to. I love the work Brian has done since 1999 in many ways, but there are those who used to bellyache that Brian shouldn't be made to tour are now doing it to him themselves. The Brian of 1965-74 was strong enough to choose if and when he toured or recorded. What has happened since is kind of sad. If he did or does get anything out of his solo career I am very happy for him but I think the only time he has been in control of his music since Adult Child was the Paley era. Please understand I don't know Brian, but I can see through thinly veiled PR. I again just hope he has some peace of mind. He owes nobody anything.

For those who have it listen carfully to what Ginger Blake says at the end of the A&E bio.

Very well put.

The thing really new (and negative) for me it's Brian saying that Davis picked all the carols.

Not so much surprised by that, as Davis does that for seemingly all his artists.

Other than one short article, where Clive Davis was praising What I Really Want For Christmas, I haven't seen any follow-up articles, specifically if Clive signed Brian for another album, or if the Christmas album was a one off... 

I think it was a oneoff, as Brian never seems to have a  label for too long... not his fault either, but rather his, ahem, "management"

The Xmas album is better then it had any right to be, I like it very much for what it is.

I'm 90% sure both his chin/neck and his teeth were photoshopped in that picture. And I'm a graphic designer, so I should know.  :hat

It would not surprise me. He was photoshopped in 1975 for SOA for the 72 pic.

Brian stated in September 2004 that he'd had something like $60,000 worth of dental work done.

Could be, but the photo just looks very unnatural. And I'm pretty sure about the neck/chin thing.

In this close-up you can clearly see the picture was photoshopped.

(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b245/BiscuitPower/chin.jpg)

Boy it sure was a hack job. The teeth thing I have noticed in recent interviews too. Remember the Friends where Ross teeth glow in the dark LOL.

Billy, I would be more concerned if Melinda:

-co-wrote and co-produced songs with Brian
-ghost wrote his autobiography
-would be constantly out there self-promoting herself as the one who brought Brian back.

I don't claim to have any 'inside' info here.  All I can go by Brian's productivity over the past ten years and a show in Michigan last year.  Brian was into his second song when Melinda finally made it to her seat (just a few rows in front of us incidentally) and Brian's face literally lit up, big smile and everything. 

Swamp Pirate I know Billy is going out of town and I don't presume I can answer your questions for him. So I can only offer what I think.

Brian undoubtedly cares for his wife. He also cared about Landy. Your first two points are valid as far as what she has not done. I disagree though that she has stayed in the background. Watch IJWMFTT, the AnE bio, the 4 solo DVDs Brian has put out, the Larry King interview. Have you ever seen Mike, Bruce, Al, or Carl's wives interviewed? Dennis wives, even Karen, never had as high of a media profile. Marilyn had some press because of her music career and she has participated in some of the coverage on Brian. Yet outside of the music they did togther, I never heard Brian say that she told him to record,  tour, etc.

If Melinda has helped Brian then great. I have never spoke to her, and I only can go on my own and others observations. To me it all boils down to Brian having personal and artistic freedom. I never want to think the worst about people, but I am not convinced that he does. I would be happy if my fears proove unfounded.

Melinda is a just a tad different from all those examples. As executor of Brian's estate, she is effectively co-business manager with DL. Not only does she have the right to be a part of all his business decisions, it is required of her.

Whether all those decisions are the best that could have been made -- that's debatable. People have slammed her for speaking so much on Larry King, but most of her responses were about Brian's medical situation which he is very uncomfortable talking about. She (and DL) got him to complete SMiLE, and for that I'm forever grateful.

I know a little about her negotiating style, apparently she drives a very hard bargain. But hey, so does Donald Trump, business is business. But I think it's noteworthy that she supported Brian's touring when it was running heavily in the red. The bottom line for her is -- what's good for Brian? It's about time he had someone like that in his corner, IMO.

Good points.  I don't think what Melinda does is self-promotion though.  Yes, being his wife she plays a very important part of Brian's life and that is reflected on the various docs and DVD's.

The thing is this- I have a hard time believing that Brian is 'forced' to do anything.  From everything I've read, it appears that Brian is the king of passive-aggressiveness.   See 70's shows where he played different songs than the band played on occasion.  If he didn't want to perform, doesn't he hold the ultimate card, the ultimate power in which he could make it obvious to everyone, his band mates, the audience, everyone by sabatoging his own show?  He is the lead voice.  He is the guy the spotlight's on.  If he truly didn't want to be there he could make it uncomfortably clear to everyone that he didn't want to be there.

I think Brian is a lot smarter and a lot more in control than we give him credit for.

I totally agree...I can't recall who it was, but somewhere I read a quote from someone who knows Brian very well (might have been Marilyn) and she basically said that if Brian doesn't want to do something, he'll sabatoge it.  I do know it was her that said in Charles Granata's Pet Sounds book that he was as clever at getting his way and manipulating people as he was musically.  He's always been great at using his "crazyness" to get his way, even in the mid 60's.  Granted he's not nearly the same guy he was back then, but I don't doubt that he still knows that he can get his way if he really doesn't want to do something. 

Wait until she brings out her own CD covering old BB numbers: Melinda Wilson (the BEACH BOY'S wife) Salutes NASCAR, sold only with Radioshack products.  Then she'll be taking advantage of our boy.  Well, that and an exercise video ("More cake, dear?").  

I really think too much is made of "my wife, my manager told me to do it" quotes. This has little to do with the actual work itself. I do a lot of what some would call "creative work" in my job and outside of it. If I didn't have to bring home a paycheck, I'd be less likely to put forth an effort. As far as most of the personal projects I get involved in, most the successful ones wouldn't have happened if my wife or someone else didn't tell me to start the ball rolling. Maybe I'm as lazy as Brian (!), but I sure appreciate the push others have given me. When Brian says it was his wife's idea to finish "SMiLE", that has nothing to do with the hours of creative work Brian himself put into the project. Clive Davis picking the Christmas carols is a footnote compared to the ingenious arrangements Brian conjured up for them.

In 1961, Dennis tells Brian he should write a song about surfing...so I guess Brian was a puppet even then!

Melinda has a job and she does what she gotta do. I'm sure she was a great car saleswoman.

It was Darian who said roughly that. He said that if Brian really doesn't want to do something he'll just not do it - or worse yet, he'll sabotage it.

I don't have any inside info either, but let's see, where is Brian now compared to before he married Melinda...

1. He's reclaimed much of his musical legacy, and established himself as a concert performer.
2. He has a second chance at raising a family with his young daughters and his son (he obviously adores them all).
3. He apparently is on the best terms in a long time with his grown daughters.
4. By all who have chosen to comment publicly he's banished many of the demons that troubled him
5. He's getting top-shelf medical care from the UCLA medical center, which IIRC was Melinda's doing (getting him to go there)
6. He's stayed in decent physical condition, he hasn't ballooned back up to his "large" size.
7. He's won numerous humanitarian and music industry awards.

Yep, that Melinda sure has been bad for him.

I'm sure she kicks Brian in the rear from time to time to get him going - like she shouldn't?  Like nobody here has a wife or husband who doesn't do the same thing? Like most of us don't need that from time to time?

I'm sure she has her faults. I'm also sure she enjoys the financial security being married to Brian offers. But look what she endures along with it... Living with Brian on a day to day basis CAN'T be easy - I'm reminded of the story Darian told in the Crutchfield interview about Brian freaking out around Christmas, terrifying Darian and the housekeeper. Who did they call to help Brian - Melinda, that's who (at least that's what Darian says).  I'm sure there are many more of those difficult moments where Melinda "earned her keep".

BTW, notice this interview was apparently conducted around the Christmas season. That may well explain some of Brian's reactions.

Nope.

Whoa.  What's the deal there, AGD?

I am happy about his music and touring from an artistic level. I am also  happy that his work is given the acclaim it always deserved. Jim I think you make some good points but his weight was very high when he and Melinda got married. I just again am trying to look at this without my selfish wants as a fan getting in the way. When I do that I just cannot feel completely at ease.

About this Melinda thing, I have a question. Suppose she's controlling Brian in some way that is inappropriate. What would be her motive for doing so? They have money already, and she doesn't seem particularly demanding or extravagant. She's obviously not looking to springboard a career off Brian. So why would she force or strongly encourage him to do anything that isn't for his own good?

I'm having a hard time buying that her motives are anything but loving and honorable.

Well, one thing's for shure: she's certainly not Heather Mills.
Or Yoko

I am damn glad that everything I  have ever said has not been published.  What if people were constantly sticking a microphone in your face and asking you questions...on good days and bad days, on days when you were fed up with something, when you had, out of anger vowed to do or not do something?   We'd all look like complete flakes.  Especially if we were supposed to live up to being genius.    Brian is Brian.  The only thing consistent about him is inconsistency.

I'm curious as well Andrew...what do you know that we dont?

I read that Brian went to the hospital to know his new grandchild, Carnie's daughter. While he was there he got to meet Wendy's kid(s) for the first time.

What does that mean? That he's close to Carnie but not Wendy?

Those two sentences are all the info that I have.

Wendy's kids are among those acknowledged in the SMiLE liner notes. I don't have the CD in front of me, but I believe he thanked "Leo and TBD" because Wendy's second child had not been born and therefore had no name at the time.

This discussion raises the question: Can Brian cross the street alone? Every bad word against Melinda is a bad word against Brian and insults his intelligence. :lol

Dr. Zaius: Be careful what you look for Taylor, you may not like what you find.

Apparently not - remember who nearly ran him over in 1993 ? 8)

Correct - when Brian was at the hospital for the birth of Carnie's daughter (I'm not 100% clear on this, but I seem to recall reading somewhere that she asked him to be there), Wendy & family were there too, and that was the first time he met  Wendy's second child, Beau. I present this exactly as it was related to me. You add the spin.

This shouldn't be interpeted as a defense of Melinda, but I think it's worth noting that Wendy in I Just Wasn't Made For These Times (while not as chatty as her sister) spoke frankly of  havin g "feelings of resentment, still" at a time when it was assumed that  relations between father and daughter were considerably warmer than in years past. 

:lol

I truly feel like this is none of our business. I know the BBs and BW have aired their private lives in public for years -- it's their way -- but this all really crosses a line for me. I don't care what kid Brian saw where or anything. Just let the poor man be.

Brian is someone we all care about because his music and story have made our lives better. We don't know him as a person, and what  goes in his life is ultimately his own decision good or bad. That includes letting other people make those decisions for him. It is his own doing IF that really is what is going on. If he has a measure of happiness great, he seems like a good man. He seems to not mean anyone harm, he is the one who has to live with the choices he makes not us. I really didn't want this subject to lead to anybody being angry or anything. I think we have all said how we feel about Brian's marriage and his daughters. We all have to come to our own conclusions and I don't think that is putting Brian down. Truth is not always simple, easy, or happy, but it is his life not ours. I simply hope that he is getting the satisfaction today that he denied himself so long.

I completely agree with this. If you want the man to be happy then don't start dissecting his private life, looking for clues that his whole world is a disfunctional sham.

There seems to be an awful lot of suspicion about Melinda's motives, without too much hard evidence to back it up:


It strikes me that some just enjoy stirring up a negative perception of Brian Wilson's present day reality. Until there are hard facts then this is all just mean-spirited gossip and bitching in my opinion - why anyone would want to perpetuate this kind of negativity is beyond me.

Chosing my words very carefully here... I think there's enough been said in interviews over the past few years, by people from Brian on down, and ample public evidence for valid opinions to be formulated. Personally, I don't subscribe to the BlueBoard ethos that everything in the World Of Wilson is just peachy. I know little enough of Brian's home life, but purely on a professional front, things ain't good. Correct me if I'm wrong but all of Brian's solo albums have been on different labels and - BWPS excepted, a special case if ever there was one - have followed the principle of diminishing returns in terms of sales and chart positions. That's not good management.

I think that within ten years, maybe less, the accurate story of Brian's post-Landy life and career will emerge, and that it will be a very interesting day for all of us, boosters and naysayers alike. Hints have emerged recently.

I know nothing of Brian's life and very little about the music business. But to say "things ain't good"...well, that's not necessarily the case. There are plenty of bands with diminishing returns. Doesn't mean their management is horrible. Look at REM, for instance. The fact is that Brian is not a hitmaker anymore. Even a charmer like Paul McCartney isn't exactly at the top of the charts. Brian is 64 years old, with a longtime reputation for being a weird recluse, fair or not, and he doesn't have the ability to refute that by giving some great interview in Rolling Stone or something. A lot of people don't even recognize his name. Brian has never had a successful solo career, but that's not down to management. That's down to the fact that his name a lot less recognizable than the Beach Boys' name.

As far as Brian being on a different label with every album, I have no idea why that is, and I'm sure you know better, Andrew. I don't think anyone expects that if Brian stayed on one, supportive label for several albums, he'd start to sell millions of albums. I'm sure that he wants hits because that mentality is part of how he was raised, but those around him may feel that the goal is as much to get his brain going again as it is to sell albums. And the fact that Brian toured for years with an amazingly talented band and that the pendulum has swung a bit from "Brian Wilson, weird recluse to Brian Wilson, genius composer" is a step in the right direction. Whoever is responsible for making that happen deserves some credit. I have no idea if Melinda is good to Brian or not, but is there real evidence that she's not? If Melinda is a wonderful wife but a mediocre manager, well, at least give her some props. I can't imagine how hard it must be to be in her position, and I get tired of women getting maligned for using their brains or expressing their opinions. Cue Linda, Yoko, Hillary, or whoever. I don't like the "She's just his wife and should stay out of it" mentality. Melinda has made mistakes, I'm sure, but have they been worse than mistakes made by Brian's previous management?

Well said, Amy. You make some excellent points in your posts.

Melinda's has made some excellent decisions with Brian's career (hiring Wondermints was the best move anyone could have made).

But she has also made some poor ones too (piggybacking GIOMH  with SMiLE).

That said, she gets treated rather unfairly.

Or if they do, the response may well be, "Him? Is he still alive?" I can personally attest to this.

Did BWPS not come out under Melinda's watch? Is it not better than any long-time fan/obsessive could have realistically hoped for, given BW being who and what he is (I am not long-time by any means. If you are and don't feel this way, feel free to tell me I'm full of ____.)

Give Melinda due props, I say.

Since 1976 Brian's been marketed as the "greatest comeback ever", not a musician. Plenty of people are to blame for making every single detail of Brain's personal life as public as possible. Why? because there's always been this need to make sure that "NOW, UNDER MY CARE, BRIAN'S BETTER THAN HE'S EVER BEEN". Melinda, Leaf, Landy, you name them.

If it's with Brian's best intentions in mind, terrific. But don't point fingers at those who talk about Brian's marriage, sex life, drug addictions. He or his handlers have made sure that I know way more than I ever needed to know about it. And I notice that very often it's only labeled as "crossing the line" when Melinda is criticized.

Andrew, you're such a tease!  I haven't read any of those hints recently, other than the usual things that have been discussed for years.

Or maybe it's due to the fact that the solo MUSIC isn't that good.

Dancing Bear - I'm agreeing with your posts a lot!

Sheriff and Bear thank you for being objective. I think we know a lot about Brian because he blurts things out. It's no secret what and who decides things. I would like think Brian and not Melinda made the musical decision to hire Wondermints. Brian's constantly packaged like the comeback kid. Since 1999 I think there has been concerts and records worthy of his name, but the Brian Wilson who was around before Murry died, or even the one before Dennis died is not coming back. For all those who defend Melinda fine, but like Dancin Bear says the managers since 1976 have forced a pyscho drama on us. All I ask is that you look closely at what Brian is saying. That will tell you everything.

I don't make as much of the different albums on different labels things as AGD does. Except for BW88 and BWPS, the man hasn't made a decent solo album. Really. IMAGINATION, GIOMH and WIRWFC range from mediocre to bad.  And the really good stuff (I think) that he has made during these years has been left in the can.  Maybe the "bad management" fingerpointing should be directed at BW himself?

But why is Brian's management putting him in that position?  They know what he can and cannot do, and they certainly know whether he brings enthusiasm to the project or not.  The accounts of the making of "Imagination" show a man that really wasn't in a frame of mind to be doing an album.  He lost his mom and Carl in that timeframe, and knew that Carl was seriously ill some time before that.  He'd just adopted some kids.  His wife bought a house in St. Charles, IL to get him into a house and a home studio next to Joe Thomas.  From all indications, though, Brian wasn't crazy about the idea of moving to Illinois.  He didn't do much on that album besides the vocals.  Most of the co-writes are dominated by the collaborators (and all made in the image of Adult Contemporary radio), and of course, some of the material is remakes.  With GIOMH, the tracks were chosen by Brian's management, and all are remakes to varying degrees.  The album was done very quickly, and if you believe some of Brian's interviews about it, he wasn't crazy about doing it, either.

I'm sure all of the above is well-known, sorry for the rehash.  But Brian didn't put himself in a position to fail, his management did, at least with those two projects.  BWPS and the live albums and DVD's were all good ideas, for the most part (the Christmas album is okay, too, I guess, but could have been just a single or EP of the new tracks).  I don't think, however, it's a good idea to put someone as sensitive as Brian in a position where he's not happy doing something, doesn't put out much effort, then has to live with mediocre or bad reviews and sales.   If Brian doesn't have an album in him at some particular time, he should just be left alone.   The whole exercise seems to be just to keep Brian's name out there and his profile high, which is why they play ball and live with the dictates of major labels, even if it's only one middling project at a time.  It doesn't help Brian's reputation over the long haul if subpar material, not chosen by Brian, is the result.

I met Brian once and I got the impression that he was a Very mentally ill person who did not want to do what he was being forced to do.

Where did you meet him what were the circumstances? What did you see?

Guys...there are several people here who know WAY more than they are saying, and yes, there have been many hints, from Peter Ames Carlin's book (in spots) and that Uncut article. Melinda and Leaf are not what they seem at all.

BTW...Carnie & Wendy not getting on with Melinda is a well-documented fact. Just the fact that she's always bashing Marilyn is reason enough, but there is more to it.

bashing Marylin ? Never heard of that. Could you give some examples ?

She's been very critical of the so-called "first family" in many interviews, including the Larry King piece, to the point where even Brian said something ("It wasn't her fault! How could she know he( Landy) would turn out to be a crazy man?!")

Also, consider the fact that Carnie has repeatedly referred to her as "Melinda".

Oh, thanks. I knew about the Larry King-thing but didn't know Carnie called her "Melinda".

But I still think Brian needs some kinda Landy-figure; that is pushing him to do things he wouldn't do by himself. I mean without someone to watch over him, Brian probably wouldn't even breath because he's too afraid of it...

Billy, you've got nothing to loose. "Melinda and Leaf are not what they seem at all" is teasing IMO. Why don't you SPILL THE BEANS?    ;)

       :brow

Because I was told in confidence, as I'm sure the unnamed sources in Peter's book did the same.

What's the big secret? After he gets off stage they lock him in a cage with a birthday cake?  :lol

The assertion that Melinda and DL "are not what they seem" sounds so sinister. I mean, I know people have pointed the finger at Melinda, but then where does it end? Does Brian's band (whom everyone seems to identify as genuinely caring about Brian) know about whatever is going on, and are they okay with it? They do go along with the recording and touring regimen, after all.

I've got to go back and read the Carlin book again...what I got from it was the ackowledgement that, yes, Melinda has some control over Brian, but only because Brian could not function without/insists on that kind of arrangement. And that in that aspect, Melinda is somewhat like Landy, but without the attention-seeking, damaging drug-administering element.

Okay, I went back and looked in the Carlin book. The part about the Uncut story is on page 293. To me, Carlin is expressing skepticism about the credibility of this story. First of all, he refers to it as a British pop culture magazine-- the British press loves sensationalism. The book reads, "A blistering, if desperately overheated, expose in Britain's pop culture magazine Uncut called on a cast array of anonymous sources to describe the 'predicament' [Carlin's quotes] Brian had landed in, 'relinquishing' his hard-won liberty to a 'blonde phantom...'" Then Carlin says that the article is "awash in rumor and unsourced accusations" and suggests that the author interpreted Brian's mood at the time as "evidence of the misery being inflicted upon him." Then it goes on to say that many people in Brian's life insisted that he was being controlled.

I don't think PAC is necessarily concluding that this is true. Otherwise, could he truly refer to Brian's "redemption" in the book's title? If he is reading this, perhaps he'd like to weigh in. As I said, I know nothing other than what I've read. I guess I'd like to believe, based on the remarkable comeback (and it is a true comeback, true to the integrity of the music and to Brian's stature), that Brian is being treated well and is genuinely loved.

The UNCUT interview sources were people with a BIG axe to grind against Melinda. They went out of their way at the time to make her look bad.  I remember other people at the time calling Brian's adoptive daughter Daria "Melinda's divorce insurance". People were really rough on her.

Here is a fact about that article that always suprised me. Part of that article appeared two years before in Melody Maker magazine and the author was making note of the positive changes in Brian's life due to Melinda.

Guess you gotta find some way to recycle old work into new.

Also, Brian is a big kid at heart even at 64. He needs someone who is stern with him or nothing would ever get done. And Brian NEEDS to be pushed to do things.  If Brian does not have a "goal" to work towards, he falls back into depression. Too much time on his hands. I think one reason Brian really started to sprial down after Landy left in 1977 was that the BB really didn't want the works Brian was composing (Love You, Adult Child) so he really has nothing to do. Just mess around.

Look at Brian after Landy was forced out in 1992. By 1994 Brian had gained back ALOT of weight, was smoking again but though not as bad as before (no drugs but some drinking). Even though he was working with Van and Andy (along with Don Was), since no real "goal" was out there, he just kinda got lazy again. And his depression returned.

After he married Melinda, she was given his conservatorship and she got him to a new team of doctors (better than the ones after Landy left) and generally helped him lose weight, stop smoking and become more active. And it was all for the good.

Bob F.

Bob

Fair enough.

I guess we'll have to wait some years for the juicy bits.

I think all that needs to be said is that Brian the artist, and Brian the man may not be given the same level of care. If someone 64 years old wants to, they should be allowed to retire. Brian's gift is what makes him stand out, but all the "help" he's had since 1975 seems to have been more focused on jump starting his career. Brian's mental health and drug problem of course needed treatment but why does Brian being healthy mean he has to do anything musically other then what he truly desires to do. If nothing is what he wants to do, he's allowed. He should make any career decisions himself.

Please delete.

You have some good points, Bob, but I don't agree that Brian's work on "Love You" and "Adult Child" were totally unappreciated.   Carl was a big reason, maybe the only reason, those works were completed.  He's the producer that finished them up, particularly in the case of "Love You."  All the guys put forth an effort on those projects.  It was the record company that had more of a problem with them, failing to promote "Love You" as the final record in a contract, and never releasing "Adult Child."  And really, while I happen to enjoy "Love You," as well as other fans do, I'm not sure it was exactly commercial.  "Adult Child" is downright embarrassing in spots, and never released.  I don't blame the band for any of that.

As for Brian's work with Don Was and Andy Paley, it wasn't just busy work (and Van's certainly wasn't, it's just a Van Dyke album, not a Brian album).  In that case, the band did have a problem with it, or at least Carl did.  That's in PAC's book, and I've read that elsewhere.  Brian also could have released the Paley work as a solo, but things apparently prevented that from happening, not entirely to do with the Boys.  I'm not as crazy about that music as some fans are, but Brian seemed to have enjoyed his time working with Andy.  It was something he wanted to do.  Yet Andy was sort of forced out of the picture, to be replaced by people that are more commercial, such as Joe Thomas.  I think anyone who wants Brian to have a major label solo career is forced to choose between letting him do what he wants and what the music industry wants.  It's never made sense to me that so many labels have wanted to sign Brian as part of a Beach Boys deal, or as a solo, then they're invariably unhappy with what the real Brian Wilson wants to do.  It's like they want to force a style on him, even if the songs are written by other people, just so they can say they brought back Brian Wilson.  What's the point, if it's faux Brian Wilson?  That's not a goal anyone should be pushing Brian towards.

In a Rolling Stone article to promote Imagination, Brian himself mentioned that Melinda didn't want the Paley sessions to be released. Why, i dunno. Anyway, I still have the article, and as soon as I can locate it (I'm in the process of moving), I'll post the exact quote.

In any case, Paley got himself in trouble for rightfully trying to get his fair share of the credit, much like Usher did with Landy.

Mike is very critical of Melinda Wilson, and I know a lot of people think that is just sour grapes. I dunno about that, but I personally feel that Mike genuinely cares about Brian, in his own way, and I'd imagine he'd be affected by the way he's promoted (read:skewered) by Brian's people.

I don't get how Melinda, et al have 'skewered' Brian's career. Melinda does have a hard-nosed business sense, something we all tend to admire when it's a male with that trait. She has rubbed industry people the wrong way, I've talked to some of them. But, it's always geared toward getting Brian the best deal. The Uncut article is a farce.

Brian likes putting distance between himself and the business end of things. It's quite possible he was responsible for getting Landy all too involved in the business and creative side of his career. He sets it up this way and then turns around and makes statements that make it look like he's unhappy about it.

I think he's talking about Melinda skewering MIKE LOVE.

Also, I can understand how Mike Love could resent Melinda and David Leaf considering they made that documentary that bashed him personally as well as the other Beach Boys, and part of their marketing campaign of Brian consists of talking about how untalented the other Beach Boys are. It kind of reminds me of Yoko Ono saying John Lennon was everything and other Beatles were nothing. Also, Melinda and David Leaf were not around in the 60's so how the f*** would they know what was going on with Brian and the rest of the guys or what the circumstances were when the albums were recorded. Melinda and David Leaf are outsiders in every sense of the word and maybe should stay in their element.  ;D

Very well put. I could only imagine if Dennis were alive...

But when, specifically, did Melinda (or even David Leaf) talk about how untalented the other BBs were? And how would Mike know what is going on with Brian and his management when he's not around Brian now? Mike has been bashing Melinda since before the Smile documentary, has he not? And also, given that Melinda is indeed an outsider from the BBs, you can't really blame her for going along with DL's vision on Beautiful Dreamer-- I mean, given that she really doesn't know what happened with Smile any more than we do.

 ???

We can't blame her for contirbuting to a documentary that is very negative towards the Beach Boys? What are you saying, that she doesn't know what she's doing? She's Brian's manager and guardian for crying out loud. Everything pretty much goes through her hands.

Has Joe Thomas ever commented publicly? I'd be interested in what he'd have to say...

I was trying to make a point. You can't say she doesn't know anything about the story and then blame her for supporting a certain point of view. I mean, if she doesn't know anything about the story and she's a complete outsider, then she may well think that the BBs are largely to blame for the downfall of Smile. After all, the dominant point of view she's heard is Brian's.  AND she knows that Mike made that awful TV movie that made Brian look at lot worse than BD made the BBs look. Besides, I don't even see BD as being THAT negative toward the BBs. The reason it doesn't include their viewpoint is because they refused to talk on it, and one of the people (David Anderle?) says something like, "You can't blame the BBs for being dismayed about the music if you put yourself in their place." Even Marilyn said negative things about the BBs in "I Just Wasn't Made for These Times"-- (i.e.-- "They really tore Brian down.") And she was there! But she doesn't get the flak that Melinda does. All I'm saying is that I believe that both of Brian's wives want(ed) what is best for him. Melinda is trying to shore up Brian's legacy. To do it, she's supporting the idea that he was the genius in the BBs and can also stand on his own, right or wrong. Maybe she does it at the expense of the BBs by supporting a documentary, but has she ever directly criticized the Beach Boys?

I didn't read all 9 pages, but did anybody think him saying this was very interesting?

Q. How do you feel about being called a creative genius?

"I'm proud to be called that. I'm very proud. I don't feel pressure at all to live up to that." - BW




He's got such a funny way with words, hard to put a finger on it.  It's like somebody saying

"Hi, How was your day?"

and me saying

"It was great.  I didn't stop my car on the side of the road down by the truck stop and contemplate suicide; that never happened today"

Just a few comments about some of the general comments in this thread:

1. Maybe they're 'making' Brian work, but if he 100% didn't want to work, he wouldn't work.  Every married man alive does things for his wife that he doesn't really want to do, because she wants him to.  This is life; there's not necessarily anything wrong with it, it's just how things are and it's how our society is built up.  LOL.  Part of marriage is sacrifice and one way he sacrifices for Melinda is he  probably does some things he doesn't want to do.  He's legally been declared mentally incompetant to run his own life.  Think about that for a minute.  THANK GOD he has somebody that makes him do something, he'd likely be dead by now if he was allowed to just sit around the house.

2.  I hear spirit and love in his music, there would be no spirit or love to his music if he was 100% against doing it.  The Christmas album is a great example of that.  Every song (in my opinion) is sang about as passionately as Brian can get anymore.

3.  His teeth have looked like that for a couple years now.  Remember all the pictures last year of him with the palm trees and the yellow shirt on?  I saw him on television performing last year, he had really white teeth.  The picture is most definately photoshopped, because every digital picture is photoshopped; how hard is it to brighten the pic up a little bit or change the contrast a bit when you're prepping the picture for print?  They have to resize it, one click of a button his teeth get whiter.  As for the thinning or whatever, I doubt they cut and paste anything, they may have just altered the dimensions of the pic slightly to make it a little thinner.  Easy enough.

4.  If you've ever been around someone who's severely depressed then of course you know that they often make the world a lot darker than it is in a subconcious effort to reach out for love and attention.  Brian's had a hard life, he's had severe mental issues that plague him to this day; of course he's often going to say negative things, it's a hard habit to overcome.  When you tell an interviewer something negative sometimes it's an attempt to grasp at love and attention anyway you can, I did that myself for years when I was younger, I eventually learned it doesn't work and doesn't help.   

There will be no juicy bits; just negative speculation by generally negative people who don't believe anything is as it seems; after all the sky is really just an illusion caused by the atmosphere; There is no god; Santa is a fat man in a red suit at the mall, and the easter bunny was made up by Hallmark. 

Yes; because Dennis, long dead, is the savior and perfect in every way.  If he were still alive, Brian would be out of the control of the evil dictator Melinda, and his mental problems would probably be miraculously cured as well.  Remember folks, this is the same Dennis who did such a great job protecting and helping Brian in the early 80's one of them ended up dead and the other in the worst shape of his life.  If only Dennis were here. 

Whoah...back up a minute. I was referring to wondering how Brian & Dennis's relation would be. Dennis would have had to eventually clean up anyway,right? If he were alive today, he'd had to have cleaned up, because he would've died within 5-10 years anyway at the way he was going. I just wonder how Dennis would've fit into Brian's life now.

I guess the same way Carl did in the 90s. Although maybe a little closer, I don't know...

Great post!

I'd like to add that Brian got new teeth after the recording of Smile, but before the tour. Those are just brand new pearly white teeth, photoshop or no.

Again read Brian's own words or watch his interviews. Then make up your own mind. You know I have said this before but Brian owes the public nothing and himself everything. He should not be forced to do one damn thing. As long as he isn't doing drugs or being destructive people should leave him alone to do what he wants. If that means nothing so be it.

As SMiLEY said, Brian had all his teeth capped and/or crowned shortly after the recording of "SMILE", but before the 2004 U.S. "SMiLE" tour (somewhere around June or July, 2004?). Brian himself said that "they did every tooth in my head". In addition to improving his appearance, the new teeth have obviously given Brian more confidence in speaking and better enunciation in his singing voice. One can also determine when the various interviews were done for "Beautiful Dreamer" by noting whether Brian has his new teeth or not!

Also, and please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Melinda no longer has conservatorship over Brian. It was determined about six or seven years ago that Brian was mentally competent enough to handle his own affairs. That doesn't change the fact that he defers to Melinda in business or creative matters, but he doesn't legally have to.

??? Does he have MORE?

Great post. Reading this thread, I was beginning to doubt that Melinda is still Brian's wife. The way the relationship is discussed here it seems to be  purely an exploitative business relationship. Surely she cares for him and pushes him because it's what's best for Brian? My partner does the same for me and I often moan like crazy about it. This may be a naiive perspective, but we don't have video cameras installed in Brian's home so can't rule out the possibility that he is actually happily married.

I like the posts that imply some deep, dark secret about Melinda and David Leaf's relationship with Brian. It's funny because, as there is no actual information, I end up thinking the worst!! Maybe if somebody backed up these vague and abstract accusations with some facts (or even allegations) I might be able to form my own conclusions instead of hanging on their every post to see if the implied scandal actually materialises.

I appreciate that some on this board have access to sources closer to Brian, and that they may have a responsibility to keep this information secret. What is the point of alluding to this top secret info then? It's worthless to the average poster like me, and surely you're compromising the integrity of your sources? The only purpose it serves is to fuel the rumour mill imo.

Excellent paragraph. But here's the value I see in those posts--and it is something I've discussed before. Some people just like to make sure everyone knows how much they know. "Look, I'm an insider...I could sure tell you stories...I WON'T, but I could. Glory be unto me." That's the vibe some people give off, anyway. The same sort of vibe comes up whenever discussion of boots, newbies or anything else comes up.

TO BE CLEAR, I am not talking about anyone specifically at this point--I have no intention of going back and figuring out who, specifically, may have made vague references, or what those references might be, or whether I (or any other fan) could back them up. The point of my post is just to say sometimes there is a reason for people to make those sorts of posts described above, and I think it's a bit sad.

If anyone thinks I am trying to spread rumors or anything I am not. I am not trying to withhold anything.  I am commenting on the delicate balance of a public and private life. Everyone here can watch, hear, or read about who Brian is today as a public figure. As far as who anyone is like in real life, contact them and make your own judgement on who they are to you. I don't mean that in anything but a sincere way. Again this isn't secret agent time. I just fail to see why Brian should be professinally forced to do anything if he doesn't want to. This has nothing to do with Brian as a husband or Melinda as a wife.

See, I think Brian's a lot smarter and a lot stronger than a lot of you think he is.  If he truly didn't want to tour, it wouldn't have happened. 

This isn't the days were Brian was shunted off to the side by the rest of the Beach Boys where they hoped he could keep it together to get through the show.  No, Brian is the whole f'n show and if he didn't want to be there, he could make it painfully obvious to everyone that he didn't want to be there.  It's hard to have a show when the star of the show doesn't want to participate.

So I don't buy the whole 'Melinda is forcing Brian to do things he doesn't want to do' stuff.   

To my eyes it was "painfully obvious" he didn't want to be at that first Smile show in London. Didn't want to do it long before in rehearsals either...at least that's the way it seemed on the doc. Guess David and Mel know best though.

-hp

And he said numerous times that he didn't want to do the Smile premiere. That's no secret. He was scared. He's Brian Wilson, and he was premiering Smile. Anyone would be scared. But then he said that once it started, he felt better. And then once it was over, he felt extreme relief (as in...I did Smile--not as in...the show is over). He also said he thought about backing out. I'm sure if he really wanted to back out, he would have, but he kept cooperating.  Ultimately, if he was pushed into it, it was the best thing. I mean, look. He's relieved that Smile is out there and was well received. He's creating again. He seems more articulate in interviews now than he has in a long time. So maybe David and Melinda (and Brian himself) DO know best. And maybe we don't know anything about Brian's life and should stop making accusations.

    For you people who say there is something almost criminal in what is being done to Brian, that there are mean people who are forcing him to do things he doesn't want to do, please let me know how you know it is best for Brian to do nothing.  Please, give me your professional expertise on how Brian sitting on his ass and doing nothing is better for Brian than what Melinda and David Leaf have gotten Brian to do.  At least give me some examples of people who have sat on their ass and done nothing and were much the better for it, as compared to when they were being socially and financially constructive. 

     (And are you telling me that never once in your life have you been scared to do something but did it anyway and found out afterward that you were really glad you did it -- or were at least you glad you tried it?)

    So, please, tell me how you KNOW that Brian would be better off if he had retired ten years ago.  Please describe to me the horrible consequences that have taken place because Brian has been pushed to be active these past ten years.  Once you do that you might have a point.  As it is, your point is ridiculous and pitiful. 

    Just so you know, this is what your whining comes across as... "Oh, Brian has given us so much already he shouldn't be made into a trained monkey and forced to perform for us!"   Well, if that's all the brain capacity that Brian has left, then yes, I would probably agree with you that he shouldn't be made to perform.  However, first you've got to prove to me that Brian has that much brain damage.  And if you can't prove to me that Brian is as brain damaged as that, then as I said above, you have to prove to me a productive human being is worse off than an unproductive one.  Especially one who is productive doing what he loves the most, which in this case is writing, recording, and performing music.

     As for people who are intimating that David Leaf and Melinda are doing who knows what to Brian (Chinese water torture?  Locking him in a cage?  Making him eat his vegetables?) I just think that is sick.  Either say what you know and back it up with evidence or keep your trap shut, I say.  How exactly are unfounded *secret* rumors supposed to help us?!?!


           Love and merci,   Dan Lega

People will say or speculate anything they want about Brian till the moment it's forbidden by the Board's rules. Brian's private life has been made more than public by his or his handlers' choice.

You can't stand these kinds of thread? Do like I do with BWPS apreciation threads: stay away - or at least don't reply.

My guess is he wouldn't have gone through with the show if he didn't want to.

Amen

Dan you sign everything Love and Merci but what you wrote is very hostile. I never said I was right or that you are wrong. This is a hot issue, I don't want what I or others write to personally offend you but I don't applogise either  I have given detailed reasons of why I feel like I do. If I or anyone else has personal reasons for feeling the way they do then respect that. I am not trying to dangle a carrot in front of you, What I discuss here are things everyone CAN see publically. I am not trying to tease or hold back. Try not to take this so seriously, I like reading your posts normally but let's keep this all in perspective. Hopefully this responce doesn't make things worse  but please understand that what I say or don't say isn't up to you.

Not sure I buy the "if-Brian-doesn't-want-something-it-doesn't-happen" tenet 100%. He didn't want "Surf's Up" on Surf's Up, but it is. of course, that's an old and possibly isolated example.

I'm not saying Brian can be forced to do anything... but he's very capeable of being coerced. Birthday cake & steak, anyone ?  ;)

I have; I do.  I think half the time he sounds like he loves it, half the time he doesn't.  He has mental problems.  It's well documented he wouldn't do anything if not required to... we've been over all this before, we just disagree. 

We can all see it publicly, but there are two ways to look at Brian's comments, though.  You can believe the negative things he says, or you can believe the positive things he says.  You choose to believe the negative things he says.  Think about that.  Why are you inclined to believe the negative but not the positive? 

I think agreeing to disagree is a good idea because this shouldn't be personal or make anyone angry. How I choose to think good or bad is totally dependent on the situation. Let me say a few good things. With Brian I do think winning a Grammy and the overall way Smile was recieved was a good thing for him. I like his last three albums quite a bit. I think the band treats him with much respect and that there are aspects of his last decade that creatively must have been satisfying. It made me very happy to see him. 

All I am trying to point out is our own wants as fans may not mesh with what he wants. I can't argue with some of the final results as a fan but  his comments lead me to two questions. First did getting to this high point career wise, come at the expense of his personal desires? Second what is the line between encouraging and presuring somebody? Is it so unreasonable that I ask this as an observer?

well I did have a post here but this discussion will never be resolved and it seems pointless to perpetuate it.  pm me if you give a flip about reading it...which I doubt anyone does.

I think what got a lot of people angry was the post(s) that said things like [paraphrased] "Trust me, David and Melinda are not what they seem." And "I can't reveal anything, but time will tell." That kind of thing. It seemed to imply that people had inside information and were just teasing to get attention. It also seemed extremely vitriolic toward David and Melinda, as if implying that there is no love or friendship involved at all-- as if they're these evil masterminds or something. That doesn't seem fair to say until you've got evidence supporting it that you're willing to share.
But if you're just speculating and questioning whether Brian is doing what he wants, then I don't have a problem with that. The only thing I have a problem with is taking every negative thing Brian says and ignoring every positive thing, because as Ron pointed out, Brian is depressed and apt to say negative things. He doesn't have a filter.

I read your post holeypolecat, and you said...  "Did he (Brian) feel better after he did it?  Not really the point to me."  Not really the point to you?  Why not?  Since when is the end result not part of the equation?  And for MBE, as Amy B. pointed out what I was alluding to was the fact that the folks on your side of the debate keep acting like there is some real underhanded coercion or something nefarious in the way that David Leaf and Melinda have gotten Brian to be productive.  Please let me know what you know.  As far as I know all they did was tell Brian that they thought it would good for him to be productive and ask him if would go along with plans they would like to set up.  Brian said yes -- and, by God, he followed through with it!  Yeah, it was scary and hard work for him, but I don't see him complaining that it was his wife's idea to do "SMiLE".  Sure, we all wish it had been his idea from the start, but seeing as it wasn't doesn't mean it still wasn't a great experience for him!

I went to music school, and the first time I had play piano in front of my classmates I was incredibly nervous.  My hands were literally shaking and I didn't play very well.  However, I lived through it and got more and more comfortable playing in front of people as each year went by.  Finally in my last year when I had to do it again I really fed off the vibe of playing live.  I was totally in the moment and played the piano piece better in front of a live audience than I ever played it in the practice room -- which was a total opposite of how things happened when I first started.  And let me tell you, that was a great, great feeling!  I'll never forget that sense of how into it I was.   So, yes, Brian admitted himself to the hospital during an early "SMiLE" practice session... but checked himself out when his wife showed up and went out to dinner with her.  He then went through all the practices for "SMiLE" and then... performed it in front a huge crowd.  He didn't chicken out, he sang every single note and didn't miss an entrance.  He says he was very scared to do it, but felt better almost as soon as they started, and was really glad to have finished it.  He's seems to be in much better spirits now, so please tell where the harm was -- and how sitting on his ass doing nothing would have been better.  From what I can see Brian felt much better about himself and life after finishing "SMiLE".  That's the evidence I'm seeing.


              Love and merci,   Dan Lega


(Once again, as for my sign-off, I didn't choose that sign-off to try and tell everybody that I was some kind of truly enlightened being.  I'm a human being and I get pissed off sometime and I'm not going to let my signature get in my way.  I chose the signature only because I thought it was a clever twist of "Love And Mercy".  However, if you ever do see me leave the signature off, that's when you'll know I'm truly indignant!)   :hat

I do have a problem with people that think the only alternative for Brian to making music is "sitting on his ass doing nothing."   He has three young children to stay home with and enjoy.  As long as he's not laying around being depressed, I'm sure he has things to do that have nothing to do with music.  At this point, music should be a fun hobby and outlet for him, not a burden that he must do, like some kind of household chore.  If that's what it amounts to, then no one should be pressuring him to record or tour.   A couple of projects he's been involved with have raised that question, particularly "Imagination."  But it seems his management (and I'm including the real management people, not just David and Melinda, who probably rely on these professional advisers) has hopefully learned from that experience, and if Brian is doing music now, it's on his own terms.  But if he chooses not to, I wouldn't be so patronizing as to say he's "sitting on his ass doing nothing," and ought to be prodded to do something, anything to do with music.

Forget Marie I concur with you totally.

Amy and Dan I am glad you both told me how you feel. We all care about Brian and want him happy.  Being honest while still respecting privacy is tricky. I feel I have done my best to keep my tone measured and only discuss what I am willing to publically disclouse. I want to point out that I read what everyone writes here and take it all into consideration. I just want everyone to look at things from all angles good and bad. I feel this board hardly ever lapses into to making anyone a saint or sinner.  I feel we have to respect  each others views, and make people feel able to air them. I hope we can all agree on that.

Once again, I will state for the record that my friend David Leaf does not have ANY input into the creative life of Brian Wilson. He works 70 hours a week producing and directing documentaries for LSL, and the Lennon film is merely the latest in a list of projects they are developing. If Brian is recording, it is because Brian wants to record. The results will be known next year. Speculation at this time seems pretty fruitless. I will say that based on previous product of Brian's, I'll probably like about 70% of the cd.

I think it's a shame that Brian, or Mike, or whoever cannot just put out a cd and receive honest response based on that cd's merits. It seems like every cd has to be a Pet Sounds or a Smile. Henry Aaron didn't homer every time he came to bat. Paul McCartney certainly doesn't hit the peaks of Revolver or Rubber Soul every time he does an album. Dylan seems to go through hot and cold periods....so does Pete Townshend.

Melinda may not be trained in management, but I will say one thing in her favor. She has helped Brian remain creative at a pace he desires to keep, and when he said he wanted to back off touring, she supported him. The various accusations flung back and forth between the first and second families are just that-they knew different Brians. Brian is a master politician and has a way of keeping everyone around him fighting so he doesn't have to be accountable, and this "What Brian wants to do sh*t" is just that. What Brian wants to do changes from hour to hour. Trying to keep his interest for an entire album is tough. That is why I think letting him just go in and record when he wants to, and then assembling an album out of the best of it is the best approach, and Melinda finally seems to have figured that out. Good for her.

Huh. I never thought of it like that. Good point.

delete

Once again, Peter chimes in with the definitive post.

Peter, I look forward to the day when your book is published.

Thanks Peter what you said makes sense on several levels.