The Smiley Smile Message Board

Hi all,

I’m curious - does anyone know what happened to the Putnam 610 desk used to record Pet Sounds at United Western? Is it still around at EastWest? I couldn’t see it on their website/tours.

Would it have been sold to a private collector or another studio? Hopefully not butchered to sell off piece by piece.

I think Neil Young owns it? If not that one, then one similar.

Maybe you already know this, willmansell - but the board used to record the BBs album prior to Pet Sounds (meaning, Beach Boys Party!) is now owned by Mark Linett - that came from Western Studio 2, and now resides (last I heard, anyway) in Mark's studio (Your Place Or Mine Recording).

I don't think the Putnam console owned by Neil Young was the same one or the same units from Western #3 - What happened was United/Western sold off a lot of that gear around '67 or thereabouts because at that time it was tagged as obsolete, and among the buyers was Papa John Phillips, who installed some of that Putnam gear which he himself had used at Western in his house and started having sessions there. Hal Blaine recounted one session where the police showed up because there was an ordinance against having home studios in that area (don't know how Brian Wilson evaded that one unless the ordinances changed which allowed it), I guess noise leaked through, and all the musicians had to stay quiet while John talked to the police.

I've been curious whether the famous/infamous 1967 jam with McCartney and Brian on "Old Smokey" was done before or after Papa John had the Putnam/Western gear installed at his pad.

Keep in mind too that there is no single desk, because the channels were designed to be modular - Which means if channels 1, 2, and 3 that were used to record something specific on Pet Sounds went on the blink, they would and could be swapped out with exact replacements. Therefore the actual channel strip modules could have ended up in any "board" configuration and there would be no way to know which was which, so unless you're asking about the actual desk that was built to house these units, there would be no way unless serial numbers were recorded. I don't believe records were kept like that 50 years after the fact. And the actual wooden/particleboard/formica/whatever "desk" or housing would have no effect on the sound at all, obviously.

And factor in the United group of rooms as well, and all the commercial jingle mini-rooms and voiceover studios at Putnam's complex, along with whatever else he had...those 610 modular strips could have gone anywhere even before they had that liquidation sale when they updated all the gear, especially considering they could be swapped in and out whenever technical difficulties or repairs happened.

The "board" (not really a board, though, but a collection of modular channel strips) which Wally Heider used to do a lot of famous mobile recordings does exist and sometimes shows up at various conventions.

For a time I believe Neil Young's Putnam console/desk was one of the most complete and working examples on that scale and in that size - UA cut tracks on it as part of an event they staged some years ago.

And of course, there is the one owned by Mark Linett as mentioned. That board should be in the Hall Of Fame if it were not being used, lol.

Wow thank you everyone, really enlightening. Had no idea John Phillips bought a lot of their stuff but I guess they cut their best records in Western 3. Just did a bit of research and saw the Wally Heider copycat studio as well. There must be something about that room. Would be nice to think the desk (or the chassis at least!) is floating around out there somewhere.

Carrying this on.. Am I correct in thinking this is the desk from Studio 3 at Western that was used for PS?

(http://www.trbimg.com/img-57a4fe9c/turbine/la-1470430909-snap-photo/)

If so, it looks vastly different to the UA Green Board that's still knocking about.

Even the modules on this look different - each one seems to have different knobs set on different levels. And there's far more of them than on the other 610 consoles.

(http://esq.h-cdn.co/assets/16/20/768x504/gallery-1463413479-brian-wilson-michael-ochs-archives-stringer-2.jpg)

Would the four smaller knobs in between the input/output gains be EQ? I thought it was a lot simpler back then.

I'd REALLY like to find out more information about this desk. I'm going to have a hunt around online.

Those pictures above are Columbia.

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CiVx2pPW0AA_a3A.jpg)

This is the one you want.  Much simpler than the CBS board.  Presumably, corporate money contributed to the more extensive set-up, although Western Studio 1 had a much more advanced board by this point, too.

Columbia did have the much larger budget, as Putnam was more or less what would be called an "independent" studio, yet Putnam's studios were in such high demand in large part because of the way his in-house designs on things like the 610 and the LA-2A (and later 1176) sounded, not to mention the rooms and the people he had engineering. Gold Star was similar, in that they were indie yet they had a sound that everyone wanted and also had that mojo of having a list of hit records to their credit. It's trend-driven in large part, which is how Elvis and other huge names ended up cutting with Putnam's setup when they needed a hit record.

But Columbia with that kind of setup in 1965-66, yeah they had the much bigger budget to afford such things as shown in those photos. Columbia/CBS was/is after all "The Tiffany Network"  ;D

Which is why their control room pictures are in color and better resolution than the crappy, B&W shot from Western's control room.

Just kidding.  >:D

I love Chuck's quote in the PS booklet about having to continually swipe Brian's hand off the console. Aaah those union days......

I looked for such a quote and couldn't find it?

I think the stories are getting confused a bit. Chuck Britz allowed Brian to work the board at Western, to the point of mixing the tracks hands-on. That was one reason why Brian recorded at Western. What happened with Columbia was a supposed incident where an engineer did swipe Brian's hands away from the board during a session. That is not unheard of with the union rules and how certain engineers were more strict on union rules than others. I heard from Phil Ramone that the same thing happened to him years later, and Phil Ramone is/was one of the premier producers in music. But that's how some of the union engineers were regarding them doing their jobs and the producers doing theirs.

The incident with Brian at Columbia got inflated through the years and the pipeline of info to morph into the notion that Brian was never allowed to run the mixing board at Columbia.

Yet we have film of Brian running a GV session at Columbia, at that same board shown in the photos above with Melcher/Johnston/Asher, where he is actively working the mixing board and no one is slapping his hands away.

I think it depended on who was engineering at Columbia and how strict they were in terms of the union regulations on who could operate what on a session. And Brian as producer could always refuse to book time with whoever the engineer was that slapped his hand away and work with other staff engineers.

But it was not Chuck Britz at Western. Chuck in fact allowed Brian to work hands-on in the mixing, and some of the results were stunning. Read Michael Vosse's Fusion piece for some examples of this.

Are there any examples of Brian showing a real interest in the gear? Past obviously getting a nice mix level. It strikes me he wasn't so interested in compressors/EQ and the like and would leave this to Chuck or another engineer..?

Also - I've been trawling the interwebs and can only find one other picture of the desk from Western #3.

(https://media.uaudio.com/blog/2009/april/heritage_610.jpg)

Anyone know of any others?

Brian is very sharp regarding gear but I don't think he would get hung up ... generally surrounding himself with engineers and musicians who could translate "make it sound like jewelry". In the '60s every studio Brian used had a high standard for gear.

The most interesting insight I've heard from Brian on this topic is in a 1968 interview where he's taling about the Chamberlin, and clearly thinks the stock tapes could be improved upon by having your own "man" to record higher quality tapes, or more customized tapes.

I think of the group, Al would be the one most interested in the gear aspects, and probably would have the best memory of what was used on what, etc.

No confusion here.

'Once Brian was done with the arrangement, he would come into the booth and say 'Let me hear you, Hal'. He would have certain guys play things. He'd say, 'Let's hear everybody ' I wouldn't be rolling tape. He was just listening. He would tell me to add this much echo....let me hear so and so. He would go back and forth until he heard the instruments he wanted to hear, and then he would tell me what he wanted. Then he would sneak the pots (control knobs)  up, and I would move his hand off the board. When he had the sound he wanted, he would say 'Okay Charlie, let's record' It went pretty quickly after that'

The Making  Of Pet Sounds pg.54 paragraph 4

Certainly not the description of a one off occurrence. Maybe the union rules changed after PS?

I get the feeling that Chuck moving Brian's hands off the board was less about union rules and more about too many cooks in the kitchen.

It reminded me of the accounts of Phil Spector when he was recording the orchestral overdubs for the Let It Be album. Spector would constantly be reaching over to turn up the volume, and the engineer would reach over and turn it back down because it was maxing out. And that went on like a game of back-and-forth where Spector would turn up the knobs, and the engineer would turn them down until it finally came to a head. Among a lot of other oddities that day, Ringo was called on to pull Spector aside and talk him down a bit so the session could run smoothly, after Spector was yelling out demands for the sounds they were recording.

But it's good to have some context in that quote. As H said, I don't see this as the same kind of deal as Columbia with union rules and regs, because neither Western nor Chuck ran sessions that way. And also because a lot has been written about Chuck letting Brian run the mixing board, and did not slap away his hands as the unknown Columbia engineer apparently did in that one case. One prime source would be reading Vosse's descriptions in Fusion, and I think Anderle said similar.

aeijtzsche and guitarfool

Yes, that's a tough one to call. Recollection of the actual engineer vs recollections of stoned guys.

To me, 'Sneaking his hands on' and 'moving them off' sounds pretty clear.

That he shouldn't be doing it is strongly implied in the word sneak.

The moving off is a firm reminder.

If it doesn't fit other descriptions and causes a discrepency, you can't just explain it away as something else just because it doesn't fit. That's disingenuous to Chuck Britz.  

Either you're researchers who stick to the truth, or you're bullshit historians with an agenda to push.

Be researchers,  you're damn good at it.  :)

Is there some reason we can't take into account both Vosse and Britz?  There's no agenda.  In Chuck's interview there is no indication of the reason he moved Brian's hands off--we can't assume it was for union reasons, nor can we assume it was not, although there is plenty of evidence that there was a culture gap between a studio like Western and a studio like CBS, which was one step removed from engineers wearing labcoats.  I still think that Chuck was not enforcing AFM 47 regs but instead annoyed because Brian was fucking with the mix.

(http://www.rockdelux.com/files/article/9662/bibliotecapop-beachboys-2.jpg)

Just to be clear, the 'bullshit historian with an agenda' refers to an ex member of this board, but you knew that. :p

To me, the word sneak speaks volumes. And I love Vosses reminiscences, but always factor in these guys were very stoned

We have about a minute of film showing Brian in Western 3, sitting at the board, while Chuck was at the 8-track tape machine behind him. Brian was listening and mixing something at the board, on 8-track in Fall 66 wearing a fire helmet (along with Van Dyke) and the other Beach Boys minus Dennis who is filming it were there too.

If Brian were not allowed to do certain things in a session with Chuck Britz as a general rule, mix or recording, he wouldn't have been in the seat behind the console while Chuck was at the tape machine.

I think Chuck's quote was along the lines of the Spector anecdote, where it could have been a case of Brian trying to push levels too high or even turn the monitor levels up higher than normal. Remember, Brian is deaf in one ear.

And from everything I've heard, seen, or read, Chuck was not the type of hard-nosed union engineer who would forbid Brian from running the board. In fact, he allowed Brian to run the board and that created some pretty amazing sounds and ideas that Chuck would perhaps then refine and make more usable from a technical sense, like balancing levels and avoiding peaks, etc.

Brian and Chuck were a great team at Western, I think that's the takeaway here.

I totally get all the stories, references and evidence to the contrary.

But against those we have an incongruous quote, from Chuck, which I read as quite explicit in it's meaning.

Is it possible the rules were relaxed after PetSounds?

(https://i.imgur.com/kQr5mc4.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/ZxjAOks.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/FPLReJq.jpg)

I know, I know,, you're really not pointing out to me anything I don't already know.

I'm just not as quick to dismiss a quote from the man himself, over another quote from someone who by his own admission was very stoned throughout this period. And the photos. I know. I know Brian used the board. I don't need to see evidence.

As you have just posted that clipping in a dismissive 'final word' sort of way though,  I'll leave it there also.  Unconvinced by your argument.

I'm not arguing or being dismissive, I'm just reposting those photos to show examples for people who weren't around in 2013 or whenever I posted all that stuff to show Brian at the Western 3 board mixing on 8-track, and to show what Chuck Britz looked like in some shots you don't see as often as the egg nog one, for example.

Re-read Vosse's recollections of the Smile sessions. He nails every description of the tracks which we could finally hear for ourselves decades later, and maybe one or two which may or may not be out there to hear. To dismiss him on the basis he was stoned all the time isn't supported at all by his actual descriptions of that era in his article from a year or so after he witnessed and heard all this stuff. I'm just saying it's a bit unfair to write off what the man said on the basis he was too stoned to have a good memory of it, because his memory in that article is right on the money as we can hear for ourselves.

And it's not dismissing what Chuck said or pushing an agenda to mention how there isn't enough context in the quote to nail down exactly what Chuck was describing, or what exactly was being done at the board. In the Columbia incident, Brian reached for a control on the board and had his hand slapped by a union engineer, that we know was done because of that engineer strictly following the rules of the union. In the case of Chuck Britz, again there is more evidence to show Chuck was not running sessions with Brian that way, in fact it was generally the opposite. And it's not just stoned ramblings backing that up.  :)

And I think it was up to the actual engineer how strictly they followed these "rules". I'll go back to hearing Phil Ramone describe a similar incident he experienced a few decades later where his hands were slapped down by an engineer because that engineer thought the rules of the union should be strictly enforced...because Phil Ramone being a world-class engineer himself was at that session as producer, and it wasn't his job to adjust knobs or faders. That's following the "rules" strictly by the book, but not everyone did that, in fact most I'd say did not. Now it's a moot point except maybe in the broadcast TV or radio business where those sound engineers still carry union cards and follow the rules more than in the music biz.

Let's not overcomplicate something that's pretty simple (in my opinion):

* Engineers generally don't like producers messing with the board
* I doubt anyone would habitually physically remove Producer Brian Wilson's hand from a board
* Brian clearly put his hands all over the boards at both Western and Columbia, and presumably every other studio he worked at
* It's safe to assume generally BW was "producing" more than "mixing" or running the board
* Anecdotes from Britz, Bruce Johnston, etc. are just that -- anecdotes

Union rules be damned, this was the '60s!

Neil Young says in his Autobiography that Pet Sounds was recorded on the 'Green Board' that he purchased and moved to his ranch. Is that accurate?

All fair points Craig. I still think there's more to that quote, but I'll stop going on about it. :)

From what I've gathered from the more knowledgeable replies, no, in a word.

Although it's possible some of the modules used for PS could have made their way into that board. The 610 modules and chassis used for PS were likely sold to Papa John Phillips and then later dismantled in Canada.

The thread sort of broke down into an argument about Brian's autonomy (or lack of) over the mixing desk at Columbia (lol).

I know that Sly Stone bought John Philips' house, including the studio (where the group recorded the Papas & Mamas LP), and recorded There's a Riot Goin' On there. Not details about whether or not it was the same board. Curious about how it ended up in Canada, etc.

From a vintage/classic gear point of view, yes it seems like a travesty to have that amazing sounding gear parted out or even scrapped but by rights, in terms of the era, the Western gear was obsolete in terms of technology a few years after Pet Sounds was recorded. So it was either a case of people thinking ahead and preserving it (collector/historical mindset) or upgrading (business mindset). Studios were operating to make a profit...who knew that gear which Papa John bought would someday be truly appreciated for what it is.

I remember reading how difficult it was in 1977 for Emerick and Martin to compile and mix the Beatles Hollywood Bowl release. They could not easily find a well-maintained 3-track machine setup from that era to even run the tapes to mix/transfer them from the masters...at that time. The one they did get overheated so they had to blow a vacuum into it to cool it down.  

This is technology 13 years or so removed from when it was state of the art. That's pretty amazing. 13 years ago, 2004-2005...imagine not being able to find a particular piece of gear from 2005 or around that time. It's pretty laughable by today's standards and in the context of time. But that's how quickly gear progressed and was deemed obsolete in the 60's. 4-track recording as the standard medium was only around for a scant few years, when it's put into the big picture of perspective.

I can say with certainty that Neil Young's "Green Board" was not the same one. The green board was originally owned by Wally Heider and Wally used it mostly for remote live recordings, then Neil bought it direct from Wally and installed it at his ranch studio.

Interesting BB connection, though. The Green board was constructed by Frank DeMedio who *also* built the board which was used to record the Hawaii concerts in August 1967, through Wally Heider's rental and mobile recording services. In fact DeMedio had to work up to the last minute on that console before it was sent to Hawaii for the Beach Boys.

The modules in the green board are the same as the ones in the Western Studio 2 console. They are not the same as the ones in the Studio 3 console which had the buss (track) select in the frame not in the module. As far as I know only two of the earlier Studio 3 type consoles were ever built.

The Neil Young console was an earlyWally Heider  remote console

*This* is the board Frank DeMedio built to be sent to Hawaii, in use by Brian and Jim Lockert in Hawaii...with a glimpse of some guy wearing a cabbie cap in between. lol

(https://i.imgur.com/JMVMqJ8.jpg)

And I found this shot of Neil's studio in use, showing the Green Board installed and on the right while Neil's "Brass Board" is the one being used:

(https://i.imgur.com/dv78x36.jpg)

EDIT: Look in the foreground, lower right in the photo and you'll see a 610 module sitting solo.

And *this* was an early board designed by Bill Putnam and used for remote recordings in the 60's, some done and later rented by Wally Heider, which was part of a presentation and exhibit at an AES convention in 2000:

(http://www.aes.org/aeshc/jpg/conv109/ua_modular_console.jpg)

I think Sly recorded Riot on the N32 Matrix https://reverb.com/uk/item/2334814-sly-stone-s-custom-flickinger-n32-matrix-recording-console

Elliot Mazer at the controls during the 'Everybody's Rockin' ' sessions, I think, lol an album far removed from Pet Sounds!!

Going off topic here, but when these TASCAM portastudios arrived in the late 70's, is there any evidence that any of the band had/used them? I know Springsteen, Lou Reed etc were fond of them. Did Brian still have a home studio at that point? Al would have build his by then, I think. Maybe these guys had access to much more sophisticated gear. Just curious if someone like Carl would have had one on the road with him.

Good catch on ID'ing Mazer at the Brass Board! The photo is from the "Old Ways" project and sessions, though, a few years after "Rockin'"

You may be right, though I thought the bulk of Old Ways was recorded down in Nashville.
There are some other photos from presumably the same shoot (Mazer has on the same shirt) where it looks like '83 Neil as opposed to '84-85 Neil lol. And 'The Redwood Boys, are also in the photo...but then again those guys were on Old Ways sessions as well I think.

I don't have an answer for this, but it's an interesting question. I wouldn't be surprised if Brian had some sort of mechanism for recording demos along those lines in the Landy era. Something more elaborate than just setting a boom box with a mic next to a piano, but less elaborate than a studio situation.

I think what Carl was doing in the 80s and 90s is a big, big mystery. I sense (whether recorded on a portastudio or in some other fashion) that Carl recorded demos over the years that we've never heard one note from. He mentions in a circa 1986 interview (post-'85 album) that he's writing more material with Robert White Johnson. Considering the only post-1985 Carl-penned material we have are his hand full of songs on the "Beckley Lamm Wilson" album, I'd *have* to imagine there are some Carl songs/demos somewhere.

Would Carl's estate really be that tight with such Carl recordings though? Would they really hold on to them for 20 years without mentioning them to BB archivists, etc.? So I dunno, maybe there *isn't* much.