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Smiley Smile Stuff => General On Topic Discussions => Topic started by: bsten on January 04, 2018, 06:03:42 PM



Title: Love you instruments?
Post by: bsten on January 04, 2018, 06:03:42 PM
Does anyone know what instruments were used on Love you, and who played what? Thx!


Title: Re: Love you instruments?
Post by: c-man on January 04, 2018, 07:23:32 PM
Piano, tack piano, organ, harpsichord, Moog bass, ARP String Ensemble, Mellotron - all played by Brian. Drums - sometimes played by Brian, sometimes played by Dennis. Electric guitar - played mostly by Carl, but also likely Ed Carter and Billy Hinsche. Horns and flutes - played by Steve Douglas and Jay Migliori. That's mostly it - along with a few miscellaneous items like chimes and accordion. That's for the new tracks - "Good Time" and "Ding Dang" were cut years earlier with more people.

EDIT - I added "organ" above, 'cause I'd forgotten to originally. :)


Title: Re: Love you instruments?
Post by: Rebel on January 04, 2018, 07:26:02 PM
Have any true instrumentals, acapellas, vocal / instruments stems ever been released either legitimate/illegitimate?


Title: Re: Love you instruments?
Post by: Wata on January 04, 2018, 07:37:22 PM
Have any true instrumentals, acapellas, vocal / instruments stems ever been released either legitimate/illegitimate?
Backing vocals of Let Us Go On This Way and a capella mix of The Night Was So Young have been released illegitimately.


Title: Re: Love you instruments?
Post by: Wata on January 04, 2018, 07:45:04 PM
Also, there are early mix of half ouf the songs on Love You circulating- Roller Skating Child, Mona, Honkin' Down The Highway, Ding Dang, The Night Was So Young, Let's Put Our Hearts Together, I Wanna Pick You Up. The songs mostly sounds awful, and they kind of proves that how much Carl contributed as mix-down producer to make the album listenable.


Title: Re: Love you instruments?
Post by: Pablo. on January 05, 2018, 06:21:27 AM
Piano, tack piano, organ, harpsichord, Moog bass, ARP String Ensemble, Mellotron - all played by Brian. Drums - sometimes played by Brian, sometimes played by Dennis. Electric guitar - played mostly by Carl, but also likely Ed Carter and Billy Hinsche. Horns and flutes - played by Steve Douglas and Jay Migliori. That's mostly it - along with a few miscellaneous items like chimes and accordion. That's for the new tracks - "Good Time" and "Ding Dang" were cut years earlier with more people.

EDIT - I added "organ" above, 'cause I'd forgotten to originally. :)

Is there a Mellotron? Or it is a Chamberlin? In any case, where? The accordion-like sound on I wanna pick you up?


Title: Re: Love you instruments?
Post by: Rocker on January 05, 2018, 06:29:31 AM
Have any true instrumentals, acapellas, vocal / instruments stems ever been released either legitimate/illegitimate?
Backing vocals of Let Us Go On This Way and a capella mix of The Night Was So Young have been released illegitimately.



Let us go on this way (backing vocals):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6308jJj3RA



The night was so young (vocals only):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-UUD6hu3Yyc




Such a great album, full of classic Beach Boys harmonies  :love


Title: Re: Love you instruments?
Post by: HeyJude on January 05, 2018, 06:35:45 AM
While the guitar work on "Love You" is obviously pretty sparse, some of the guitar work buried in there is pretty tasty. "The Night Was So Young" has some really interesting guitar work buried under there.


Title: Re: Love you instruments?
Post by: bsten on January 05, 2018, 04:13:46 PM
While the guitar work on "Love You" is obviously pretty sparse, some of the guitar work buried in there is pretty tasty. "The Night Was So Young" has some really interesting guitar work buried under there.

Thanks for the information all!! Love "The night...", it's so beautiful it feels deep down in your stomach. And listen to the clever and tasty guitar playing on "Roller..." 😀


Title: Re: Love you instruments?
Post by: c-man on January 05, 2018, 09:55:40 PM
Piano, tack piano, organ, harpsichord, Moog bass, ARP String Ensemble, Mellotron - all played by Brian. Drums - sometimes played by Brian, sometimes played by Dennis. Electric guitar - played mostly by Carl, but also likely Ed Carter and Billy Hinsche. Horns and flutes - played by Steve Douglas and Jay Migliori. That's mostly it - along with a few miscellaneous items like chimes and accordion. That's for the new tracks - "Good Time" and "Ding Dang" were cut years earlier with more people.

EDIT - I added "organ" above, 'cause I'd forgotten to originally. :)

Is there a Mellotron? Or it is a Chamberlin? In any case, where? The accordion-like sound on I wanna pick you up?

Track sheet notations indicate accordion on "Mona" and Mellotron on "I Wanna Pick You Up". I know it's been definitively determined that they actually used a Chamberlin in the '60s, but Jon Hanlon has been quoted as saying they had a Mellotron at Brother in the '70s. Track sheet notation also indicates one was used on Dennis' "School Girl".

EDIT: sorry - to answer part of your question: yes, the accordion sound at around the 54 second mark of "I Wanna Pick You Up" is the Mellotron (thanks, Barnshine).


Title: Re: Love you instruments?
Post by: joshferrell on January 06, 2018, 02:09:16 PM
I would love to see a complete remix of the album  using todays technology, as well as all the songs as  stack o tracks...


Title: Re: Love you instruments?
Post by: SMiLE Brian on January 06, 2018, 02:32:20 PM
Brian Wilson presents Love You.... :hat


Title: Re: Love you instruments?
Post by: ReggieDunbar on January 06, 2018, 03:24:46 PM
According to wikipedia  the synt ARP Pro Solist was used on I bet his nice.

//RD


Title: Re: Love you instruments?
Post by: c-man on January 06, 2018, 03:29:49 PM
According to wikipedia  the synt ARP Pro Solist was used on I bet his nice.

//RD

Could be, could be...but the only notations for synths on the tracksheet are these...which would seem to indicate Moog for those chirpy little notes:
6 - Moog bass
7 - Hi Moog (use chamber)
8 - Mid Moog


Title: Re: Love you instruments?
Post by: Manfred on January 07, 2018, 04:19:41 AM
I´m sure that there is no Mellotron / Chamberlain.  I´ve got one and I know all the sounds. Not one is on Love You.


Title: Re: Love you instruments?
Post by: c-man on January 07, 2018, 07:13:09 AM
I´m sure that there is no Mellotron / Chamberlain.  I´ve got one and I know all the sounds. Not one is on Love You.

OK, well...then the track sheet is wrong! 


Title: Re: Love you instruments?
Post by: Hickory Violet Part IV on January 07, 2018, 07:46:21 AM
Have any true instrumentals, acapellas, vocal / instruments stems ever been released either legitimate/illegitimate?
Backing vocals of Let Us Go On This Way and a capella mix of The Night Was So Young have been released illegitimately.



Let us go on this way (backing vocals):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6308jJj3RA



The night was so young (vocals only):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-UUD6hu3Yyc




Such a great album, full of classic Beach Boys harmonies  :love

Wow, thank you for digging these out. Wonderful stuff.


Title: Re: Love you instruments?
Post by: HeyJude on January 08, 2018, 08:52:56 AM
I´m sure that there is no Mellotron / Chamberlain.  I´ve got one and I know all the sounds. Not one is on Love You.

OK, well...then the track sheet is wrong! 

Or, as I know we all know, something can be buried deep in a mix as to be virtually undetectable (and/or it's literally muted from the finished mix).

When even seemingly sparse-sounding BB tracks are pulled apart, it's amazing what sorts of weird and previously undetectable things are in there.

Sometimes things are like Badfinger's "felt but not heard" acoustic guitars at the "Concert for Bangla Desh."


Title: Re: Love you instruments?
Post by: terrei on January 13, 2018, 05:49:56 AM
I´m sure that there is no Mellotron / Chamberlain.  I´ve got one and I know all the sounds. Not one is on Love You.

You've got "one"? How did you manage to combine them?


Title: Re: Love you instruments?
Post by: DonnyL on January 13, 2018, 07:57:37 AM
I´m sure that there is no Mellotron / Chamberlain.  I´ve got one and I know all the sounds. Not one is on Love You.

How are you so sure? It's ChamberLIN in fact :)

Sounds like you have a Mellotrron and may not be familiar with Chamberlins. They are much more realistic and hi-fi sounding than the Mellotron. They use completely different recordings and tapes than a Mellotron. In fact, the earliest tapes for the Mellotron violins were actually Harry Chamberlin's original tapes, a couple generations away and sent through compressors/EQ etc. (and thus they sound more lo-fi). The "orchestra through an AM radio" sound of a Mellotron is different from the superior Chamberlin sound.

I would guess/assume the boys never had an actual Mellotron and the Chamberlin was noted as "Mellotron" and/or considered a "Mellotron" by later engineers in the '70s once Mellotrons became common in the US and Chamberlins fell into obscurity. Chamberlins were essentially home-made and did not say "Chamberlin" on most of them in any noticeable way (maybe a plate/sticker on the back/underside).

The Beach Boys likely had a model 300 or 350:

http://egrefin.free.fr/images/Chamberlin/M300/ch300.jpg


Title: Re: Love you instruments?
Post by: guitarfool2002 on January 13, 2018, 08:32:42 AM
I'm guessing what Manfred is describing is either the Mellotron M4000D or a version of that rig...and it does have both the Chamberlin and Mellotron signature sounds combined in one rig.

https://www.mellotron.com/digital-mellotron.html (https://www.mellotron.com/digital-mellotron.html)

(https://www.mellotron.com/images/panel-big.gif)

I just saw one being used on a stage this past week but haven't checked it out myself, yet. Looks like a killer rig, just a bit pricey.


Title: Re: Love you instruments?
Post by: DonnyL on January 13, 2018, 09:01:57 AM
I'm guessing what Manfred is describing is either the Mellotron M4000D or a version of that rig...and it does have both the Chamberlin and Mellotron signature sounds combined in one rig.

https://www.mellotron.com/digital-mellotron.html (https://www.mellotron.com/digital-mellotron.html)

(https://www.mellotron.com/images/panel-big.gif)

I just saw one being used on a stage this past week but haven't checked it out myself, yet. Looks like a killer rig, just a bit pricey.

Probably. I've personally owned one of those (it's all over the Oak of the Golden Dream album I sent you). I actually had serial #13, which I bought directly from Markus Resch and requested that number specifically ha, and also worked with him to provide some sound samples of the device when it was brand new ... this was back in 2012.

That particular Mellotron has different filters (like you can emulate different Mellotrons and speaker configurations, etc.), so I would not necessarily consider someone who is using this device as their reference an expert on how an original Chamberlin can sound ... especially when a track sheet says otherwise.

My personal opinion is the raw Chamberlin samples in the Mike Pinder Mellotron CD from many years ago sounded much cleaner than those in the digital Mellotron.


Title: Re: Love you instruments?
Post by: guitarfool2002 on January 13, 2018, 09:22:10 AM
I'm guessing what Manfred is describing is either the Mellotron M4000D or a version of that rig...and it does have both the Chamberlin and Mellotron signature sounds combined in one rig.

https://www.mellotron.com/digital-mellotron.html (https://www.mellotron.com/digital-mellotron.html)

(https://www.mellotron.com/images/panel-big.gif)

I just saw one being used on a stage this past week but haven't checked it out myself, yet. Looks like a killer rig, just a bit pricey.

Probably. I've personally owned one of those (it's all over the Oak of the Golden Dream album I sent you). I actually had serial #13, which I bought directly from Markus Resch and requested that number specifically ha, and also worked with him to provide some sound samples of the device when it was brand new ... this was back in 2012.

That particular Mellotron has different filters (like you can emulate different Mellotrons and speaker configurations, etc.), so I would not necessarily consider someone who is using this device as their reference an expert on how an original Chamberlin can sound ... especially when a track sheet says otherwise.

My personal opinion is the raw Chamberlin samples in the Mike Pinder Mellotron CD from many years ago sounded much cleaner than those in the digital Mellotron.

True, I just thought the poster Manfred if he does own one of these was coming from a more informed perspective than some of the replies were suggesting. Like the one about combining them, which this instrument actually does in terms of collecting the sounds in one bank - So those who own it and use it would be more knowledgeable about what those sounds are, especially since it's getting to a point where fewer and fewer musicians actually have the opportunity to play much less own one of the originals.

And thanks for the reminder about your album, I will have to give it a new spin very soon since I finally got a somewhat workable speaker and amp combo up and running before Christmas...I can go between somewhat decent Bose and JBL speakers with a somewhat decent consumer grade amp and revisit a lot of albums again for pure listening pleasure from the comfort of my living room recliner!  ;D



Title: Re: Love you instruments?
Post by: DonnyL on January 13, 2018, 09:41:59 AM
I'm guessing what Manfred is describing is either the Mellotron M4000D or a version of that rig...and it does have both the Chamberlin and Mellotron signature sounds combined in one rig.

https://www.mellotron.com/digital-mellotron.html (https://www.mellotron.com/digital-mellotron.html)

(https://www.mellotron.com/images/panel-big.gif)

I just saw one being used on a stage this past week but haven't checked it out myself, yet. Looks like a killer rig, just a bit pricey.

Probably. I've personally owned one of those (it's all over the Oak of the Golden Dream album I sent you). I actually had serial #13, which I bought directly from Markus Resch and requested that number specifically ha, and also worked with him to provide some sound samples of the device when it was brand new ... this was back in 2012.

That particular Mellotron has different filters (like you can emulate different Mellotrons and speaker configurations, etc.), so I would not necessarily consider someone who is using this device as their reference an expert on how an original Chamberlin can sound ... especially when a track sheet says otherwise.

My personal opinion is the raw Chamberlin samples in the Mike Pinder Mellotron CD from many years ago sounded much cleaner than those in the digital Mellotron.

True, I just thought the poster Manfred if he does own one of these was coming from a more informed perspective than some of the replies were suggesting. Like the one about combining them, which this instrument actually does in terms of collecting the sounds in one bank - So those who own it and use it would be more knowledgeable about what those sounds are, especially since it's getting to a point where fewer and fewer musicians actually have the opportunity to play much less own one of the originals.

And thanks for the reminder about your album, I will have to give it a new spin very soon since I finally got a somewhat workable speaker and amp combo up and running before Christmas...I can go between somewhat decent Bose and JBL speakers with a somewhat decent consumer grade amp and revisit a lot of albums again for pure listening pleasure from the comfort of my living room recliner!  ;D



Gotcha ... no offense to this fellow Manfred, but I found it suspect that he "has one" and is very familiar with the Chamberlin, but misspelled it :)

Thanks for listening to my record! Yeh I just have a '66 KLH system, which suits my needs just fine.


Title: Re: Love you instruments?
Post by: DonnyL on January 13, 2018, 09:50:44 AM
Another thing to note is:

I noticed on track sheets for Pacific Ocean Blue, it lists Mellotron and Rhythm King in places. The Rhythm King was something the group used a lot in the Sunflower/Surf's Up era, along with the RMI Rocksichord and Chamberlin. I feel like the fact that at least Dennis was still using the Rhythm King in '76-'77 suggests they held on to some of this stuff and were still actively using them.


Title: Re: Love you instruments?
Post by: SMiLE Brian on January 13, 2018, 09:59:33 AM
Generic Polk audio speakers.... ;D


Title: Re: Love you instruments?
Post by: guitarfool2002 on January 13, 2018, 10:01:21 AM
Oh I totally agree that they were still actively using those, and why wouldn't they? That gear had delivered the goods before, they made some great tracks with that stuff, why not use it again? It's sadly an ethic in terms of music gear that the 80's and the digital revolution pretty much eliminated, where for a time it had to be whatever was new at the trade shows no matter how bad it performed or sounded...as long as Studio X had the latest gadgets, they were good. What crap, right? It led to travesties like Summer In Paradise where it was actually touted that a beta version of ProTools was used to record it, even though it was buggy as hell, took exorbitant amounts of time to refresh and reload when working with it, and ultimately it sounded like vanilla ice cream melting in a surgical sterilizer.

Donny, in the early 90's a buddy and me did a late night raid of a studio closet looking for cool sh*t to use on a project he had to do, and found piled up things like an old Linn drum, an old analog synth board...just collecting dust more or less. In favor of digital replications that at that time simply were not that good. It was bizarre. We pulled them out and used them, lol.

I previously listened to your music on my headphones for the most part and speakers I wasn't always happy with, so it will be good to spin your album and hear it in the room. (The only casualty to setting up the system was my old 70's Technics turntable which I thought worked, which weighs like 30 pounds haha, but when I fired it up, the mechanism wasn't working. So I had to compromise and fill the gap with a 1980 Sansui direct drive instead until I can get the Technics back in shape.)


Title: Re: Love you instruments?
Post by: DonnyL on January 13, 2018, 10:17:47 AM
Oh I totally agree that they were still actively using those, and why wouldn't they? That gear had delivered the goods before, they made some great tracks with that stuff, why not use it again? It's sadly an ethic in terms of music gear that the 80's and the digital revolution pretty much eliminated, where for a time it had to be whatever was new at the trade shows no matter how bad it performed or sounded...as long as Studio X had the latest gadgets, they were good. What crap, right? It led to travesties like Summer In Paradise where it was actually touted that a beta version of ProTools was used to record it, even though it was buggy as hell, took exorbitant amounts of time to refresh and reload when working with it, and ultimately it sounded like vanilla ice cream melting in a surgical sterilizer.

Donny, in the early 90's a buddy and me did a late night raid of a studio closet looking for cool sh*t to use on a project he had to do, and found piled up things like an old Linn drum, an old analog synth board...just collecting dust more or less. In favor of digital replications that at that time simply were not that good. It was bizarre. We pulled them out and used them, lol.

I previously listened to your music on my headphones for the most part and speakers I wasn't always happy with, so it will be good to spin your album and hear it in the room. (The only casualty to setting up the system was my old 70's Technics turntable which I thought worked, which weighs like 30 pounds haha, but when I fired it up, the mechanism wasn't working. So I had to compromise and fill the gap with a 1980 Sansui direct drive instead until I can get the Technics back in shape.)

For sure, this is why Fender Rhodes and Mellotrons were so cheap through the '90s.

I think the group updated to some degree (I think they may have ditched the Rocksichord at some point in the '70s and obviously updated to ARPs, Moogs, etc.) but overall didn't get into the shitty stuff until the '85 record.

You won't catch me anywhere near any version of Pro Tools personally ...