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Smiley Smile Stuff => General On Topic Discussions => Topic started by: Stephen W. Desper on November 30, 2017, 04:14:50 PM



Title: Beach Boys Help Light The National Christmas Tree WITH PROMO PHOTO
Post by: Stephen W. Desper on November 30, 2017, 04:14:50 PM
COMMENT:

WASHINGTON Ė If you would like to take in the National Christmas Tree Lighting ceremony, Beach Boys performing, but prefer to avoid the inevitable traffic mess Ė youíre in luck. The White House is providing a livestream of the event, so you can watch it comfortably from afar.

OK, So We Missed that show  :-[

But wait  :o  You can see Mike and Bruce again on The Hallmark Channel on December 4, check your local listings.

This re-broadcast is reported to include all four acts, including "The Beach Boys" that accompanied the Lighting Ceremony.


ADDED...

Click below for photo used in the Playbill >>>

(http://thenationaltree.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/TheBeachBoys_beach-cropped-e1511382329739-1024x769.jpg)
http://thenationaltree.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/TheBeachBoys_beach-cropped-e1511382329739-1024x769.jpg

Click below for the Playbill >>>

http://thenationaltree.org/lighting-ceremony/watch-the-lighting/



~swd


Title: Re: Beach Boys Help Light The National Christmas Tree WITH PROMO PHOTO
Post by: Mr. Wilson on November 30, 2017, 08:16:40 PM
which one is Brian  ?? LOL


Title: Re: Beach Boys Help Light The National Christmas Tree WITH PROMO PHOTO
Post by: guitarfool2002 on November 30, 2017, 08:22:10 PM
I guess they're wearing shades to protect their eyes from the expected bright lights on the tree? While standing in the ocean with rolled up trousers, no less, advertising a Christmas tree lighting ceremony.

Yeah, pretty much in line with the whole deal as of late.

We just need Dean Cain in front of a green screen plugging Mike's new album to have the complete package.



Title: Re: Beach Boys Help Light The National Christmas Tree WITH PROMO PHOTO
Post by: mikeddonn on December 01, 2017, 06:51:08 AM
Are they all Beach Boys or just the guys with caps that have, "The Beach Boys" emblazoned across them?  ;)


Title: Re: Beach Boys Help Light The National Christmas Tree WITH PROMO PHOTO
Post by: KDS on December 01, 2017, 06:57:26 AM
COMMENT:

WASHINGTON Ė If you would like to take in the National Christmas Tree Lighting ceremony, Beach Boys performing, but prefer to avoid the inevitable traffic mess Ė youíre in luck. The White House is providing a livestream of the event, so you can watch it comfortably from afar.

OK, So We Missed that show  :-[

But wait  :o  You can see Mike and Bruce again on The Hallmark Channel on December 4, check your local listings.

This re-broadcast is reported to include all four acts, including "The Beach Boys" that accompanied the Lighting Ceremony.


ADDED...

Click below for photo used in the Playbill >>>

http://thenationaltree.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/TheBeachBoys_beach-cropped-e1511382329739-1024x769.jpg

Click below for the Playbill >>>

http://thenationaltree.org/lighting-ceremony/watch-the-lighting/


~swd

Thanks, I might check that out. 


Title: Re: Beach Boys Help Light The National Christmas Tree WITH PROMO PHOTO
Post by: HeyJude on December 01, 2017, 07:19:17 AM
I guess they're wearing shades to protect their eyes from the expected bright lights on the tree? While standing in the ocean with rolled up trousers, no less, advertising a Christmas tree lighting ceremony.

Yeah, pretty much in line with the whole deal as of late.

We just need Dean Cain in front of a green screen plugging Mike's new album to have the complete package.



Ironically, perhaps signaling the type of "talent" they're currently able to lure for such official events (perhaps similar to the inauguration), one blurb I read mentioned that none other than *Dean Cain* co-hosted this tree lighting event!


Title: Re: Beach Boys Help Light The National Christmas Tree WITH PROMO PHOTO
Post by: guitarfool2002 on December 01, 2017, 09:49:59 AM
I guess they're wearing shades to protect their eyes from the expected bright lights on the tree? While standing in the ocean with rolled up trousers, no less, advertising a Christmas tree lighting ceremony.

Yeah, pretty much in line with the whole deal as of late.

We just need Dean Cain in front of a green screen plugging Mike's new album to have the complete package.



Ironically, perhaps signaling the type of "talent" they're currently able to lure for such official events (perhaps similar to the inauguration), one blurb I read mentioned that none other than *Dean Cain* co-hosted this tree lighting event!

 :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

Oh that takes the cake! Dean Cain is back again for more fun and merry-making with Mike and co., even though last year they green-screened him so they could use footage from 2015 and still plug Mike's book. Wonder if McGrath will show up this time wearing a touk and a scarf.

You can't make sh*t like this up.  ;D



Title: Re: Beach Boys Help Light The National Christmas Tree WITH PROMO PHOTO
Post by: guitarfool2002 on December 01, 2017, 10:04:16 AM
No commentary, just passing on info, except to say..."ouch"

https://twitter.com/SteveRudinABC7/status/936369495853228032 (https://twitter.com/SteveRudinABC7/status/936369495853228032)

https://www.datalounge.com/thread/20107335-tonight-s-white-house-christmas-tree-lighting-with-the-trumps-kathie-lee-beach-boys-and-nobody-showed-up! (https://www.datalounge.com/thread/20107335-tonight-s-white-house-christmas-tree-lighting-with-the-trumps-kathie-lee-beach-boys-and-nobody-showed-up!)
"Tonight's White House Christmas tree lighting with the Trumps, Kathie Lee & Beach Boys and nobody showed up!
Now, this is really embarrassing. Usually, this is an overflow crowd every year. Look at this - nobody but probably choir and the parents. And rows and rows and rows - empty!"


(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DP6nFcGXcAAkPse.jpg)




Title: Re: Beach Boys Help Light The National Christmas Tree WITH PROMO PHOTO
Post by: HeyJude on December 01, 2017, 10:16:06 AM
Wow. It'll be interesting to see how (or if they) distract from the sparse audience via editing/direction on the Hallmark telecast.

I'm guessing maybe the traffic snags were less of a problem this year.....


Title: Re: Beach Boys Help Light The National Christmas Tree WITH PROMO PHOTO
Post by: HeyJude on December 01, 2017, 10:36:49 AM
Was Mike's band at the show in 2011 when this picture was taken?

(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DP7lWKuVwAAFKGG.jpg:large)

I'm sure plenty of people will question when during the evening all of these pictures were taken. Perhaps we'll see far more people in the audience on Hallmark next week.

Maybe they'll just CGI Dean Cain into the audience over and over. He was Superman after all....


Title: Re: Beach Boys Help Light The National Christmas Tree WITH PROMO PHOTO
Post by: SMiLE Brian on December 01, 2017, 11:00:39 AM
Small enough for OSD to heckle! >:D


Title: Re: Beach Boys Help Light The National Christmas Tree WITH PROMO PHOTO
Post by: HeyJude on December 01, 2017, 11:10:46 AM
Hey, you gotta comb through the crowd of these events sometimes. Still blows my mind someone zoomed in on this from the inauguration:

(https://scontent-sjc2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16265753_1821049934831695_4502937318189154987_n.jpg?oh=b40c60f1c6ba6609ba5022a2a924511b&oe=5AD0A330)


Title: Re: Beach Boys Help Light The National Christmas Tree WITH PROMO PHOTO
Post by: Manfred on December 01, 2017, 11:16:15 AM
These are maybe the "Beach Boys" but not the BEACH BOYS !!!!!


Title: Re: Beach Boys Help Light The National Christmas Tree WITH PROMO PHOTO
Post by: HeyJude on December 01, 2017, 11:24:31 AM
I dunno, Mike's hat clearly states "The Beach Boys."

Whatever Mike's hat says, that's what it is.

Here's his short-lived government job days:

(http://media.gettyimages.com/photos/1983mike-love-member-of-the-rock-and-roll-group-the-beach-boys-is-in-picture-id635759825)

Here he moonlighted both in the BBs and in the NFL:

(http://media.gettyimages.com/photos/head-shot-of-mike-love-of-the-beach-boys-wearing-a-beach-boys-cap-picture-id635763073)

He was briefly Chancellor at UCLA:

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/QzNWD6gUGMo/hqdefault.jpg)

Here he was briefly unemployed apparently:

(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/05/01/article-2137670-128C7F7F000005DC-904_634x380.jpg)

His days as a Hawaiian Tropic model:

(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/P8BPs7IkvIE/hqdefault.jpg)

Mike's short tenure leading the famous Beach Boys tribute band "Beach":

(https://arkhonia.files.wordpress.com/2012/09/vlcsnap-mike-1994-sap.jpg?w=500)

And here I'm just gonna guess.... John Deere?

(https://s.yimg.com/sr/imgv1/1/c30f8305-31d9-3f9b-a815-286f0cd5e7b7)


Title: Re: Beach Boys Help Light The National Christmas Tree WITH PROMO PHOTO
Post by: SMiLE Brian on December 01, 2017, 11:25:35 AM
Jude is the hat whisperer! :lol


Title: Re: Beach Boys Help Light The National Christmas Tree WITH PROMO PHOTO
Post by: HeyJude on December 01, 2017, 11:38:13 AM
One video of the Mike segment of the show on YouTube so far. Not sure of how many songs they "performed", but this video captures the classic Beach Boys Christmas tune......"Unleash the Love?"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5lzE4a9oyM

And it sounds like they're miming to the pre-recorded album version of the song, possibly with some live backing vocals? Either way, Mike's vocal sounds pre-recorded and still heavily autotuned.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Help Light The National Christmas Tree WITH PROMO PHOTO
Post by: Debbie KL on December 01, 2017, 11:39:58 AM
Jude is the hat whisperer! :lol

The only thing better than reading  this thread today - can't pick a favorite post, they're all so funny - is all the "Mueller time" I'm enjoying on TV - so many early birthday gifts, so little time!  Thanks, everybody!  :lol


Title: Re: Beach Boys Help Light The National Christmas Tree WITH PROMO PHOTO
Post by: Debbie KL on December 01, 2017, 11:55:46 AM
One video of the Mike segment of the show on YouTube so far. Not sure of how many songs they "performed", but this video captures the classic Beach Boys Christmas tune......"Unleash the Love?"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5lzE4a9oyM

And it sounds like they're miming to the pre-recorded album version of the song, possibly with some live backing vocals? Either way, Mike's vocal sounds pre-recorded and still heavily autotuned.

I finally got up the courage to listen. Okey-dokey...But maybe Melinda was there to "attach the autotune" to their mic's?   :lol


Title: Re: Beach Boys Help Light The National Christmas Tree WITH PROMO PHOTO
Post by: NateRuvin on December 01, 2017, 12:06:10 PM
I know the White House will stream the performance, but will there be anyway to download it? I always like to be able to hold onto Beach Boys proshots.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Help Light The National Christmas Tree WITH PROMO PHOTO
Post by: Rocker on December 01, 2017, 02:56:43 PM
One video of the Mike segment of the show on YouTube so far. Not sure of how many songs they "performed", but this video captures the classic Beach Boys Christmas tune......"Unleash the Love?"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5lzE4a9oyM

And it sounds like they're miming to the pre-recorded album version of the song, possibly with some live backing vocals?


I guess that's the way it is done. Brian appeared there in 2005 and was also lip-synching:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ga76s_rMfFM


Title: Re: Beach Boys Help Light The National Christmas Tree WITH PROMO PHOTO
Post by: Stephen W. Desper on December 01, 2017, 03:55:12 PM
Are they all Beach Boys or just the guys with caps that have, "The Beach Boys" emblazoned across them?  ;)

COMMENT to mikeddonn:  The Beach Boys are the two looking into the camera. The support people are looking elsewhere. ~swd


Title: Re: Beach Boys Help Light The National Christmas Tree WITH PROMO PHOTO
Post by: Stephen W. Desper on December 01, 2017, 04:15:34 PM
No commentary, just passing on info, except to say..."ouch"

https://twitter.com/SteveRudinABC7/status/936369495853228032 (https://twitter.com/SteveRudinABC7/status/936369495853228032)

https://www.datalounge.com/thread/20107335-tonight-s-white-house-christmas-tree-lighting-with-the-trumps-kathie-lee-beach-boys-and-nobody-showed-up! (https://www.datalounge.com/thread/20107335-tonight-s-white-house-christmas-tree-lighting-with-the-trumps-kathie-lee-beach-boys-and-nobody-showed-up!)
"Tonight's White House Christmas tree lighting with the Trumps, Kathie Lee & Beach Boys and nobody showed up!
Now, this is really embarrassing. Usually, this is an overflow crowd every year. Look at this - nobody but probably choir and the parents. And rows and rows and rows - empty!"

COMMENT to guitarfool2002:

No-shows not uncommon at National Christmas Tree Lighting.

While a viral photo posted and shared on social media shows many empty chairs in the crowd during this year's event, the image may be a bit misleading.

Asked about the empty chairs photo on social media, the National Park Service explained that no-shows are not uncommon for the National Christmas Tree Lighting. Since tickets are handed out to people around the country, there are many who are selected that do not live in the nation's capital and in the D.C. region, and this is believed to contribute to people not showing up for the event.

Of the 20,000 tickets given out, it is believed on average that 12,000 to 15,000 people attend the tree lighting ceremony each year, according to the National Park Service.

While there are empty chairs seen in the back of the audience this year, you can still see many attendees in the standing room section behind them. If they had tickets for seats, most all the empty chairs would be filled. You can spin the story however you wish.

(https://media.fox5dc.com/media.fox5dc.com/photo/2017/11/30/EmptyChairsNationalChristmasTreeLighting2_1512100536451_4584134_ver1.0_640_360.jpg)

~swd


Title: Re: Beach Boys Help Light The National Christmas Tree WITH PROMO PHOTO
Post by: Debbie KL on December 01, 2017, 04:16:58 PM
Are they all Beach Boys or just the guys with caps that have, "The Beach Boys" emblazoned across them?  ;)

COMMENT to mikeddonn:  The Beach Boys are the two looking into the camera. The support people are looking elsewhere. ~swd

Stephen - I'm certain you don't remember me, since I was a little fan/worker-bee at the Ivar offices when you were the BBs' brilliant engineer, both in the studio and on the road - and you were a truly nice guy who was great to me.  I didn't mean to show any disrespect to you in my posts.  That said, I think mikeddonn was joking, given the wink emoji...So was I, but I still think the comments are funny...sorry...Oh, and when my ex-husband was an FAA employee in DC, he was required to attend Presidential events, so...

I'm glad you continue to post.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Help Light The National Christmas Tree WITH PROMO PHOTO
Post by: Stephen W. Desper on December 01, 2017, 04:53:37 PM
Are they all Beach Boys or just the guys with caps that have, "The Beach Boys" emblazoned across them?  ;)

COMMENT to mikeddonn:  The Beach Boys are the two looking into the camera. The support people are looking elsewhere. ~swd

Stephen - I'm certain you don't remember me, since I was a little fan/worker-bee at the Ivar offices when you were the BBs' brilliant engineer, both in the studio and on the road - and you were a truly nice guy who was great to me.  I didn't mean to show any disrespect to you in my posts.  That said, I think mikeddonn was joking, given the wink emoji...So was I, but I still think the comments are funny...sorry...Oh, and when my ex-husband was an FAA employee in DC, he was required to attend Presidential events, so...

I'm glad you continue to post.

COMMENT to Debbie KL:  Hello, hello!  Thanks for your kind words. Having worked at Ivar and with all the Beach Boy daily shenanigans, you can appreciate the photo in question.

You can make lite of anything, but stop and consider this photo.  First, as Debbie well knows, just getting eight people together is an accomplishment in itself. Then you've got to decide where the photo will be shot and find a location. Next get the people all to show up. I'm certain several different poses were considered, but this one is a "winter on the beach" type of thing -- jackets and all. I'm sure the water was cold, as it always is in California. Maybe Bruce showed up in his typical shorts and had to be supplied pants  :-D. Next a decision had to be made about the sunglasses. Then who looks where. I thought that having the principles looking directly at the camera while all the others look elsewhere was a brilliant move. It's subtle, even subliminal, but it works to make a distinction between who's the headliner and who supports them.

Debbie, you should post more often. I'm sure you have some stories you could share.  Best to you!!
~Steve D.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Help Light The National Christmas Tree WITH PROMO PHOTO
Post by: jmc on December 01, 2017, 06:13:58 PM
Are they all Beach Boys or just the guys with caps that have, "The Beach Boys" emblazoned across them?  ;)

COMMENT to mikeddonn:  The Beach Boys are the two looking into the camera. The support people are looking elsewhere. ~swd

I still don't see a picture of The Beach Boys, but I'll keep looking....


Title: Re: Beach Boys Help Light The National Christmas Tree WITH PROMO PHOTO
Post by: Stephen W. Desper on December 01, 2017, 06:33:53 PM
Are they all Beach Boys or just the guys with caps that have, "The Beach Boys" emblazoned across them?  ;)

COMMENT to mikeddonn:  The Beach Boys are the two looking into the camera. The support people are looking elsewhere. ~swd

I still don't see a picture of The Beach Boys, but I'll keep looking....
COMMENT to mikeddonn:  We're talking about the promo shot --

(http://thenationaltree.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/TheBeachBoys_beach-cropped-e1511382329739-1024x769.jpg)
http://thenationaltree.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/TheBeachBoys_beach-cropped-e1511382329739-1024x769.jpg

 ~swd


Title: Re: Beach Boys Help Light The National Christmas Tree WITH PROMO PHOTO
Post by: guitarfool2002 on December 01, 2017, 08:04:00 PM
Stephen: I have no spin to offer nor do I have any interest in the politics of these photos if there is that element. I just saw those articles online and shared them here.  :)

Maybe it's the nostalgic person in me who thinks back to when a Beach Boys concert in DC was a major event, and not just thousands but hundreds of thousands of people would come to hear them perform. An outdoor Beach Boys concert in DC, New York, Boston, etc was an event. We'll never have that again.

Instead we get Mike and his band playing songs that aren't even Beach Boys songs, that aren't even Christmas songs, ostensibly to plug a Mike Love solo album instead of giving the fans actual, real Beach Boys music to enjoy, and is now sharing stages with Kathie Lee and playing to as many empty seats as seats with people in them.

I guess I'm just sad to see where Mike has taken the name "The Beach Boys" to where they could have packed the set with their classic Christmas songs currently getting spun on those 24/7 FM Christmas format radio stations, and instead Mike Love plays something from his new solo record. It's the Beach Boys people are hearing and digging as they listen to all the Christmas music being played, and Mike and his solo release is not the Beach Boys despite the billing, which may account in a small way for the lack of fans in that crowd.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Help Light The National Christmas Tree WITH PROMO PHOTO
Post by: Stephen W. Desper on December 02, 2017, 06:24:34 AM
Stephen: I have no spin to offer nor do I have any interest in the politics of these photos if there is that element. I just saw those articles online and shared them here.  :)

Maybe it's the nostalgic person in me who thinks back to when a Beach Boys concert in DC was a major event, and not just thousands but hundreds of thousands of people would come to hear them perform. An outdoor Beach Boys concert in DC, New York, Boston, etc was an event. We'll never have that again.

Instead we get Mike and his band playing songs that aren't even Beach Boys songs, that aren't even Christmas songs, ostensibly to plug a Mike Love solo album instead of giving the fans actual, real Beach Boys music to enjoy, and is now sharing stages with Kathie Lee and playing to as many empty seats as seats with people in them.

I guess I'm just sad to see where Mike has taken the name "The Beach Boys" to where they could have packed the set with their classic Christmas songs currently getting spun on those 24/7 FM Christmas format radio stations, and instead Mike Love plays something from his new solo record. It's the Beach Boys people are hearing and digging as they listen to all the Christmas music being played, and Mike and his solo release is not the Beach Boys despite the billing, which may account in a small way for the lack of fans in that crowd.


COMMENT to guitarfool2002:   Point taken and well stated.

What's in a name?  Mike is the legal holder of that name and, I agree, you would think his song selection would reflect some seasonal song from the long history that name brings with it.  However, I don't know how many other songs were performed, or if the other songs were Beach Boy classic Christmas fare. We shall find out December 4th.

Brian once told me that for him "The Beach Boys" died with his brothers. The songs live on, but the group is no more. Hard to argue with that. Brian has moved his musical career along that line of thinking. Brian does not pretend to be "The Beach Boys," but more realistically performs as himself performing the old hits.  In contrast Mike views his performances as an extension of The Beach Boys, an extension unbroken in legacy, legitimacy, and legality. Mike views himself and his crew as the perpetual Beach Boys -- a continuation of the original -- the brothers' deaths marking his act as after the intermission. Mike sees himself as a persistence of Beach Boy history, with each performance being in a line of succession, whereas Brian sees himself departed from the history while re-visiting the songs in performance.   

The sum of the parts is greater than the whole -- in this case, the separation of the group into two (and now three) independent performing acts has generated for each of them, more income than if the group had stayed together.  Many of us, including myself, attend both Beach Boy billed concerts and Brian Wilson billed events. The songs are the same ice cream, but the flavors are different, which only shows how endearing each tune has become.

I can only conclude, as did the boys many years ago, that there is a time and place for both approaches -- and we fans reap the benefits of both.
  ~swd


Title: Re: Beach Boys Help Light The National Christmas Tree WITH PROMO PHOTO
Post by: Mr. Wilson on December 02, 2017, 07:18:37 AM
WOW.. Well said especially the 2nd paragraph..Mike see"s his band as an extension unbroken in legacy legitimacy and legality .. WOW.. I like Brian"s attitude better.. I go see both band"s all the time..  but i never consider Mike"s band as the Beach Boys.. c50 was the last breath of the band IMHO..


Title: Re: Beach Boys Help Light The National Christmas Tree WITH PROMO PHOTO
Post by: NateRuvin on December 02, 2017, 09:45:40 AM
Stephen, that is the best description of Brian and Mike's views in recent years that I have ever read. Perfectly stated. While I understand Brian saying The BBs died with his brothers, I do consider Mike's band The Beach Boys. Because in my mind, The Beach Boys always had two entities- studio and tour. Because The Beach Boys most important member, BW, rarely toured in the grand scheme of the 56 years of The Beach Boys. Al left and came back, Carl left and came back, Bruce left and came back, Dave left and came back, Blondie & Ricky came and went. I see the studio Beach Boys as Brian, Mike, Carl, Dennis, Bruce, Al, David, Blondie, and Ricky. (In terms of C50, I was happy to consider the studio BBs to be Brian, Al, Bruce, Mike & Dave).

Anyway, the point I'm trying to make is to have two Beach Boys (Mike and Bruce), as well as a kickass backing band, keeping the music alive- that qualifies as The Beach Boys to me. The Beach Boys touring band has always been evolving and changing. And to be honest, I'd rather see a Beach Boys 2017 show, than a late 70's show with stoned, drunk, and paranoid Wilsons.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Help Light The National Christmas Tree WITH PROMO PHOTO
Post by: guitarfool2002 on December 02, 2017, 03:50:34 PM
Mike Love doing the Christmas classic "Unleash The Love" at the tree ceremony, audience recording:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5lzE4a9oyM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5lzE4a9oyM)

Not the Beach Boys' song - Mike's song.



Title: Re: Beach Boys Help Light The National Christmas Tree WITH PROMO PHOTO
Post by: Debbie KL on December 02, 2017, 03:58:00 PM
Are they all Beach Boys or just the guys with caps that have, "The Beach Boys" emblazoned across them?  ;)

COMMENT to mikeddonn:  The Beach Boys are the two looking into the camera. The support people are looking elsewhere. ~swd

Stephen - I'm certain you don't remember me, since I was a little fan/worker-bee at the Ivar offices when you were the BBs' brilliant engineer, both in the studio and on the road - and you were a truly nice guy who was great to me.  I didn't mean to show any disrespect to you in my posts.  That said, I think mikeddonn was joking, given the wink emoji...So was I, but I still think the comments are funny...sorry...Oh, and when my ex-husband was an FAA employee in DC, he was required to attend Presidential events, so...

I'm glad you continue to post.

COMMENT to Debbie KL:  Hello, hello!  Thanks for your kind words. Having worked at Ivar and with all the Beach Boy daily shenanigans, you can appreciate the photo in question.

You can make lite of anything, but stop and consider this photo.  First, as Debbie well knows, just getting eight people together is an accomplishment in itself. Then you've got to decide where the photo will be shot and find a location. Next get the people all to show up. I'm certain several different poses were considered, but this one is a "winter on the beach" type of thing -- jackets and all. I'm sure the water was cold, as it always is in California. Maybe Bruce showed up in his typical shorts and had to be supplied pants  :-D. Next a decision had to be made about the sunglasses. Then who looks where. I thought that having the principles looking directly at the camera while all the others look elsewhere was a brilliant move. It's subtle, even subliminal, but it works to make a distinction between who's the headliner and who supports them.

Debbie, you should post more often. I'm sure you have some stories you could share.  Best to you!!
~Steve D.

Thanks, Stephen...I used to post fairly regularly before my husband became ill, and now that he's doing better, I'm dealing with physical issues.  When I did share my personal experiences a few years ago, I tended to be resented by a number of posters and attacked by a few.  Most, or all of them are gone elsewhere and ironically, then my time became limited to post.  

I also tend to fiercely defend people I have long loved and admired - many of them I still consider some of my closest friends who are also close to Brian and Melinda - so I guess that explains the intensity of some of the attacks. In BBs "politics," I was the enemy to some. Inexplicably - they love the music but attack Brian?  I don't get it.

There are a lot of hilarious stories in my memories, and some very sweet ones, as well.  Maybe I'll share a few when they come to mind again and see what happens.  I do remember that we all loved you, though.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Help Light The National Christmas Tree WITH PROMO PHOTO
Post by: guitarfool2002 on December 02, 2017, 04:00:47 PM
They also did "Little Saint Nick" at least at a rehearsal. That song has three things going for it which 'Unleash The Love' does not.

First, it's an actual Beach Boys song. Second, it's a Christmas song. Third, it's a good song.

But I guess as long as Mike can now use "The Beach Boys" name to freely perform and plug his own releases and projects, none of those three points matter, with the third point admittedly being an opinion while the first two are fact.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Help Light The National Christmas Tree WITH PROMO PHOTO
Post by: ericxplackis on December 02, 2017, 05:12:54 PM
Fake Beach Boys  :bw


Title: Re: Beach Boys Help Light The National Christmas Tree WITH PROMO PHOTO
Post by: Mr. Wilson on December 02, 2017, 06:03:14 PM
Nate.. Lets see.. Mike Bruce Al  sober.. Carl the only time in HIS time in BB history drugs and alcohol affected his performances was 77 78..  played with BB thru 1997.. Dennis WAS erratic 79 83 .. played with BB thru 1983..Brian .. He was on meds for his condition from 76 to this day in time.. as far as drugs and alcohol are concerned .. the other BB wouldnt allow that unless he snuck it behind their backs. which DID happen on occasion but it was rare.. ive been goin to their shows since early 70"s.. They always put on a professional show.. 98% of the time.. your comments on stoned drunk paranoid Wilson"s is out of line IMHO.. your allowed to have your opinon but you never saw the BB in 70"s or 80"s.. because if you did you wouldnt have posted that..IMHO


Title: Re: Beach Boys Help Light The National Christmas Tree WITH PROMO PHOTO
Post by: The LEGENDARY OSD on December 02, 2017, 06:50:39 PM
Stephen, that is the best description of Brian and Mike's views in recent years that I have ever read. Perfectly stated. While I understand Brian saying The BBs died with his brothers, I do consider Mike's band The Beach Boys. Because in my mind, The Beach Boys always had two entities- studio and tour. Because The Beach Boys most important member, BW, rarely toured in the grand scheme of the 56 years of The Beach Boys. Al left and came back, Carl left and came back, Bruce left and came back, Dave left and came back, Blondie & Ricky came and went. I see the studio Beach Boys as Brian, Mike, Carl, Dennis, Bruce, Al, David, Blondie, and Ricky. (In terms of C50, I was happy to consider the studio BBs to be Brian, Al, Bruce, Mike & Dave).

Anyway, the point I'm trying to make is to have two Beach Boys (Mike and Bruce), as well as a kickass backing band, keeping the music alive- that qualifies as The Beach Boys to me. The Beach Boys touring band has always been evolving and changing. And to be honest, I'd rather see a Beach Boys 2017 show, than a late 70's show with stoned, drunk, and paranoid Wilsons.

Ok, with that last sentence, you've qualified yourself as a myKe and Br00th fanboy for sure and that's fine, but how many REAL BB shows did you see in the mid to late 70's, and how many of those shows were Carl or Dennis f***ed up? Of course, I'd rather see the Wilsons a bit wobbly over a fake tribute juke box myKe luHv and his posse show. I went to those shows and the Wilson brothers had more charisma just BEING THERE than M&B will ever hope to have. 


Title: Re: Beach Boys Help Light The National Christmas Tree WITH PROMO PHOTO
Post by: SMiLE Brian on December 02, 2017, 07:15:31 PM
Gosh Darn, you are right OSD. BW solo is more than enough compared to M&B using the legacy for cash.... ::)


Title: Re: Beach Boys Help Light The National Christmas Tree WITH PROMO PHOTO
Post by: NateRuvin on December 02, 2017, 07:47:36 PM
Damn, I did not expect such hate because of my comment. Ok, you all are right, I haven't seen late 70's BBs show, and my Wilson comment was a bit out of line. My main point was saying that I'm content with Mike's band being the touring version of The Beach Boys. I am not thrilled, however, that Mike is plugging his solo stuff at an event place.

But holy sh*t, I come on here to discuss The Beach Boys, not be made fun of...  :-\


Title: Re: Beach Boys Help Light The National Christmas Tree WITH PROMO PHOTO
Post by: NateRuvin on December 02, 2017, 08:18:34 PM
Aside from all that, here's a picture I found
http://www.gettyimages.com/license/883394546


Title: Re: Beach Boys Help Light The National Christmas Tree WITH PROMO PHOTO
Post by: Mr. Wilson on December 02, 2017, 08:32:40 PM
excuse me the word hate doesnt apply to my post towards you.. i was pointing out i thought you were wrong and you were entitled to your opinion.. hate didnt enter my thoughts.. and i didnt make fun of you..


Title: Re: Beach Boys Help Light The National Christmas Tree WITH PROMO PHOTO
Post by: NateRuvin on December 02, 2017, 08:35:55 PM
Ok, Mr. Wilson, I overreacted. Had a rough day. I take back what I said.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Help Light The National Christmas Tree WITH PROMO PHOTO
Post by: MrRobinsonsFather on December 03, 2017, 02:29:34 AM
Are they all Beach Boys or just the guys with caps that have, "The Beach Boys" emblazoned across them?  ;)

COMMENT to mikeddonn:  The Beach Boys are the two looking into the camera. The support people are looking elsewhere. ~swd

Stephen - I'm certain you don't remember me, since I was a little fan/worker-bee at the Ivar offices when you were the BBs' brilliant engineer, both in the studio and on the road - and you were a truly nice guy who was great to me.  I didn't mean to show any disrespect to you in my posts.  That said, I think mikeddonn was joking, given the wink emoji...So was I, but I still think the comments are funny...sorry...Oh, and when my ex-husband was an FAA employee in DC, he was required to attend Presidential events, so...

I'm glad you continue to post.

COMMENT to Debbie KL:  Hello, hello!  Thanks for your kind words. Having worked at Ivar and with all the Beach Boy daily shenanigans, you can appreciate the photo in question.

You can make lite of anything, but stop and consider this photo.  First, as Debbie well knows, just getting eight people together is an accomplishment in itself. Then you've got to decide where the photo will be shot and find a location. Next get the people all to show up. I'm certain several different poses were considered, but this one is a "winter on the beach" type of thing -- jackets and all. I'm sure the water was cold, as it always is in California. Maybe Bruce showed up in his typical shorts and had to be supplied pants  :-D. Next a decision had to be made about the sunglasses. Then who looks where. I thought that having the principles looking directly at the camera while all the others look elsewhere was a brilliant move. It's subtle, even subliminal, but it works to make a distinction between who's the headliner and who supports them.

Debbie, you should post more often. I'm sure you have some stories you could share.  Best to you!!
~Steve D.

Thanks, Stephen...I used to post fairly regularly before my husband became ill, and now that he's doing better, I'm dealing with physical issues.  When I did share my personal experiences a few years ago, I tended to be resented by a number of posters and attacked by a few.  Most, or all of them are gone elsewhere and ironically, then my time became limited to post.  

I also tend to fiercely defend people I have long loved and admired - many of them I still consider some of my closest friends who are also close to Brian and Melinda - so I guess that explains the intensity of some of the attacks. In BBs "politics," I was the enemy to some. Inexplicably - they love the music but attack Brian?  I don't get it.

There are a lot of hilarious stories in my memories, and some very sweet ones, as well.  Maybe I'll share a few when they come to mind again and see what happens.  I do remember that we all loved you, though.

Yes I second this! Keep posting Debbie. Always enjoy your opinions.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Help Light The National Christmas Tree WITH PROMO PHOTO
Post by: Debbie KL on December 03, 2017, 12:23:41 PM
Are they all Beach Boys or just the guys with caps that have, "The Beach Boys" emblazoned across them?  ;)

COMMENT to mikeddonn:  The Beach Boys are the two looking into the camera. The support people are looking elsewhere. ~swd

Stephen - I'm certain you don't remember me, since I was a little fan/worker-bee at the Ivar offices when you were the BBs' brilliant engineer, both in the studio and on the road - and you were a truly nice guy who was great to me.  I didn't mean to show any disrespect to you in my posts.  That said, I think mikeddonn was joking, given the wink emoji...So was I, but I still think the comments are funny...sorry...Oh, and when my ex-husband was an FAA employee in DC, he was required to attend Presidential events, so...

I'm glad you continue to post.

COMMENT to Debbie KL:  Hello, hello!  Thanks for your kind words. Having worked at Ivar and with all the Beach Boy daily shenanigans, you can appreciate the photo in question.

You can make lite of anything, but stop and consider this photo.  First, as Debbie well knows, just getting eight people together is an accomplishment in itself. Then you've got to decide where the photo will be shot and find a location. Next get the people all to show up. I'm certain several different poses were considered, but this one is a "winter on the beach" type of thing -- jackets and all. I'm sure the water was cold, as it always is in California. Maybe Bruce showed up in his typical shorts and had to be supplied pants  :-D. Next a decision had to be made about the sunglasses. Then who looks where. I thought that having the principles looking directly at the camera while all the others look elsewhere was a brilliant move. It's subtle, even subliminal, but it works to make a distinction between who's the headliner and who supports them.

Debbie, you should post more often. I'm sure you have some stories you could share.  Best to you!!
~Steve D.

Thanks, Stephen...I used to post fairly regularly before my husband became ill, and now that he's doing better, I'm dealing with physical issues.  When I did share my personal experiences a few years ago, I tended to be resented by a number of posters and attacked by a few.  Most, or all of them are gone elsewhere and ironically, then my time became limited to post.  

I also tend to fiercely defend people I have long loved and admired - many of them I still consider some of my closest friends who are also close to Brian and Melinda - so I guess that explains the intensity of some of the attacks. In BBs "politics," I was the enemy to some. Inexplicably - they love the music but attack Brian?  I don't get it.

There are a lot of hilarious stories in my memories, and some very sweet ones, as well.  Maybe I'll share a few when they come to mind again and see what happens.  I do remember that we all loved you, though.

Yes I second this! Keep posting Debbie. Always enjoy your opinions.

Thanks!  I have never seen the M&B show, so really don't comment on that - I'll comment on the occasional video.  I know there are talented people in his band.  But given the option, why wouldn't I choose to see the actual creator of the great music and his spectacular band?  

I do consider M&B and Trump sort of "soul-mates" in their style and personal/professional (and legal) histories, so I have no problem with them performing at his events. I consider them a perfect match and I doubt I'd be invited to either entity's performances.  I'll leave it at that.  :hat


Title: Re: Beach Boys Help Light The National Christmas Tree WITH PROMO PHOTO
Post by: Stephen W. Desper on December 03, 2017, 05:52:46 PM
COMMENT to Debbie KL:

Thanks!  I have never seen the M&B show, so really don't comment on that - I'll comment on the occasional video.  I know there are talented people in his band.  But given the option, why wouldn't I choose to see the actual creator of the great music and his spectacular band?

Well here's why . . . You will get that "Beach Boy high" from either venue. The differences are certainly apparent. Brian has a good band and backup singers. Brian is the original, no question, but his addition to the overall presentation hinges on whether you will put up with the intonation errors to hear Brian's actual voice. And due to breathing problems, the phrases are cut short. However, Brian sings many of the Carl leads (Such as God Only Knows) which is a unique experience -- a good one.

Mike and Bruce also have a good band and and backup singers. Since many of the early hits featured Mike's lead, the current performance is more a duplicate of the original, in fact, most of the show does not deviate too far from the original songs and their sound. Both Bruce and Mike still have good voices. So if you prefer the more classic Beach Boy concert (dancing in the lies - standing and waving of arms) go see M&B. If you are looking for a slice of history and wish to relate to the man who gave that to you, while at the same time being quite entertained, buy the BW ticket.   


I do consider M&B and Trump sort of "soul-mates" in their style and personal/professional (and legal) histories, so I have no problem with them performing at his events. I consider them a perfect match and I doubt I'd be invited to either entity's performances.  I'll leave it at that.

And at the hesitation of entering into dangerous waters . . .  Mike and Bruce are both business oriented and knowledgeable of Distribution Rights, Record Deal Laws, Copywrites, Accounting, and deal making. Like Trump, they value business. So, if asked, they have no problem being on the same Playbill as him. To me it was natural for Mike and Bruce to team up and with the rights to "The Beach Boy" name, make as much money as possible. It wasn't going to be made in the studio. The studio was the creative outlet, funded by the road. 

Brian has people he pays to do business deals. He would rather create, but the road is lucrative. And very lucrative for Brian Wilson! Just remember, he travels by bus. You can put a digital recording studio in a bus. ...Just saying.


~swd


Title: Re: Beach Boys Help Light The National Christmas Tree WITH PROMO PHOTO
Post by: guitarfool2002 on December 03, 2017, 07:49:38 PM
Stephen, I realize it's only opinion but I disagree with the opinion of Mike's voice. I've listened to dozens of concert performances from Mike over the past few years, and more often than not his voice on lead vocals is one of the weaker parts in the whole presentation. If it's not a broadcast performance where they're playing to backing tracks, Mike is often off-key and sounds as if he's running out of breath on phrases he's sung hundreds of times. To my ears, the incessant touring has taken a toll on his voice and it's just not that good compared to what's around it.

Have you heard Mike's new album "Unleash The Love", particularly "disc 2" which is full of Beach Boys remakes? When it came out, I wasn't alone in commenting that Mike's leads sounded like he was running out of breath on even the most well-known Beach Boys hits he remade for this, and his voice turns more into a whisper as it sounds like he's simply not hitting the notes or when he does, he runs out of air.

And the point must be raised too about the amount of Autotune (or other) digital pitch correction applied to Mike's leads on both discs of the new release. It's obnoxious. The effect can obviously be used as purely an effect, a sonic gimmick, but if Mike is singing those hits he sings live all year round and has sung for over 50 years in some cases, he should be able to present them without so much effort being exerted to correct his pitch digitally. If he has a good voice for those songs, why aren't we hearing it especially on "disc 2"? And why aren't more of the hundreds of YouTube clips from the last few years of Mike's touring and live shows better vocally than they really are? Mike's vocals on any number of those are just not that good overall, on the basic points like pitch and phrasing/breath and tone.

I'd post some examples of live performances where Mike's voice and vocal shortcomings including bad pitch and odd phrasing would be on display, but I may be accused of cherrypicking the worst I could find to make a point, and that's not why I'm saying this. But a simple YouTube search of Mike singing a few BB's songs at his live shows would give examples of something less than a singer nailing a lead vocal. The shortcomings come blasting through the mix, again unless it was one of those broadcasts where they're using pre-recorded tracks.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Help Light The National Christmas Tree WITH PROMO PHOTO
Post by: Stephen W. Desper on December 03, 2017, 08:34:53 PM
COMMENT to guitarfool2002:

My Comments are from hearing Mike live about a year or so ago.

I will grant you that Mike's voice is not what it was 40 years ago. But I would say that IMO the energy levels are higher at the M&B version. Having worked with Michel as a producer, I doubt you are hearing anything that he does not. In other words, his use of pitch correction may be his saving grace ... from the ravages of continuous singing and getting older. Since the crowds at M&B shows continue to be well attended, if not sold-out, can you really blame him for using this technical crutch if people still buy tickets.  Do you know that each "Meet and Great" brings in each night an addition $20,000 (typical) to them both -- dirctly, not thru a distributor.

As I have always said, THIS IS THE MUSIC BUSINESS
      BUSINESS $ $ $ $ 

~swd


Title: Re: Beach Boys Help Light The National Christmas Tree WITH PROMO PHOTO
Post by: HeyJude on December 04, 2017, 10:11:40 AM
The frustrating aspect of Mike's voice is that I think he would sound better if he didn't over-tour so much. If he toured every other year, or did 50 or 75 dates per year instead of 150-175, his voice wouldn't be so shredded. It's probably a small miracle his voice is as good as it is given he's going on 77 years years old and does 150+ shows per year, every year. But he could sound better if didn't insist on the cash rolling in all year. 

The C50 tour indeed was a "lighter" schedule compared to what Mike typically does. And I think his voice bounced back noticeably for that tour. He had at least approx. 3-4 months off from the road at the beginning of 2012 (barring a couple of private/corporate shows), and the five months of the actual tour, especially the later international dates, were a lighter schedule than usual.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Help Light The National Christmas Tree WITH PROMO PHOTO
Post by: guitarfool2002 on December 04, 2017, 10:46:12 AM
It's all subjective, but I will say a concert in 2015 at The Mann in Philly with Brian Wilson was as high-energy musically as I've seen, and especially with Al and Matt Jardine on stage with the band, a song like "I Get Around" was simply amazing, and that performance I saw that night was better in less than 3 minutes than the hours of Mike's concerts I've watched in the past 3 years. It's like any performers and their performances, there are nights which are much better or much worse than others, obviously.

But I will say, again just my ears and my opinion, that playing all these shows for the $$$ has taken a toll on Mike's voice and in some cases it brings the performance of the band down a few pegs overall because it's just not on the same level musically in those moments. And if Mike were not constantly, if not in every interview, talking about how eschewing alcohol, drugs, and smoking has allowed him to be "still tourin'" as much as he does, it may be a little easier to measure up those comments with the actual results of his performances if he was consistently delivering quality leads instead of what seems to be the case at his shows, and even on his new record.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Help Light The National Christmas Tree WITH PROMO PHOTO
Post by: SMiLE Brian on December 04, 2017, 11:17:18 AM
I honestly don't get Mike's obsession with touring....


Title: Re: Beach Boys Help Light The National Christmas Tree WITH PROMO PHOTO
Post by: NateRuvin on December 04, 2017, 11:20:54 AM
I think all of The Beach Boys voices have deteriorated, aside from Al. Both Mike and Brian still can sing, just not as good as they did 50+ years ago when they recorded these songs. Like Mr. Desper said, you will definitely get a "Beach Boys High" from both shows. I think of Brian's band like going to see an orchestra and Mike's band is like going to see a rock n' roll band. Brian's band plays with finesse and Mike's band plays with raw energy. After leaving Brian's show, I feel thankful and I feel love. After leaving Mike's show, I feel energized and excitement.  If you can't tell, I love both shows.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Help Light The National Christmas Tree WITH PROMO PHOTO
Post by: The LEGENDARY OSD on December 04, 2017, 11:36:16 AM
I honestly don't get Mike's obsession with touring....
Neither do I, SB. Perhaps it's a good thing in disguise. If it does ruin his voice, then I say double the amount of shows they do and it'll keep that hack outta the studio and no one will have to endure another garbage infested release by the lovester.  ::)


Title: Re: Beach Boys Help Light The National Christmas Tree WITH PROMO PHOTO
Post by: KDS on December 04, 2017, 11:38:45 AM
I think all of The Beach Boys voices have deteriorated, aside from Al. Both Mike and Brian still can sing, just not as good as they did 50+ years ago when they recorded these songs. Like Mr. Desper said, you will definitely get a "Beach Boys High" from both shows. I think of Brian's band like going to see an orchestra and Mike's band is like going to see a rock n' roll band. Brian's band plays with finesse and Mike's band plays with raw energy. After leaving Brian's show, I feel thankful and I feel love. After leaving Mike's show, I feel energized and excitement.  If you can't tell, I love both shows.

I'm with you there, having attended six shows in 2015-2016 (four Brian, two Mike).  Both bands are top notch, and I love them for different reasons.   I think Mike's band does a slightly better job on some of the early hits, and Brian's band does a better job on the 66-73 material. 


Title: Re: Beach Boys Help Light The National Christmas Tree WITH PROMO PHOTO
Post by: NateRuvin on December 04, 2017, 11:51:33 AM
KDS, couldn't agree more.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Help Light The National Christmas Tree WITH PROMO PHOTO
Post by: Debbie KL on December 04, 2017, 01:14:01 PM
COMMENT to Debbie KL:

Thanks!  I have never seen the M&B show, so really don't comment on that - I'll comment on the occasional video.  I know there are talented people in his band.  But given the option, why wouldn't I choose to see the actual creator of the great music and his spectacular band?

Well here's why . . . You will get that "Beach Boy high" from either venue. The differences are certainly apparent. Brian has a good band and backup singers. Brian is the original, no question, but his addition to the overall presentation hinges on whether you will put up with the intonation errors to hear Brian's actual voice. And due to breathing problems, the phrases are cut short. However, Brian sings many of the Carl leads (Such as God Only Knows) which is a unique experience -- a good one.

Mike and Bruce also have a good band and and backup singers. Since many of the early hits featured Mike's lead, the current performance is more a duplicate of the original, in fact, most of the show does not deviate too far from the original songs and their sound. Both Bruce and Mike still have good voices. So if you prefer the more classic Beach Boy concert (dancing in the lies - standing and waving of arms) go see M&B. If you are looking for a slice of history and wish to relate to the man who gave that to you, while at the same time being quite entertained, buy the BW ticket.   


I do consider M&B and Trump sort of "soul-mates" in their style and personal/professional (and legal) histories, so I have no problem with them performing at his events. I consider them a perfect match and I doubt I'd be invited to either entity's performances.  I'll leave it at that.

And at the hesitation of entering into dangerous waters . . .  Mike and Bruce are both business oriented and knowledgeable of Distribution Rights, Record Deal Laws, Copywrites, Accounting, and deal making. Like Trump, they value business. So, if asked, they have no problem being on the same Playbill as him. To me it was natural for Mike and Bruce to team up and with the rights to "The Beach Boy" name, make as much money as possible. It wasn't going to be made in the studio. The studio was the creative outlet, funded by the road. 

Brian has people he pays to do business deals. He would rather create, but the road is lucrative. And very lucrative for Brian Wilson! Just remember, he travels by bus. You can put a digital recording studio in a bus. ...Just saying.


~swd

If you don't mind the "business-oriented" guys using Brian's talents when it serves them, and their tendency to attack him when it also serves their purposes - pretty much like Trump operates - that's your choice and I don't have a problem with it. I've grown used to it, and I'm glad you enjoy their shows.  I'll repeat, they are perfect for Trump's events. No matter how you feel about this - M&B belong with Trump.  It's poetic, in its way. They should go down in history with him.

"America's Band" - is fractured but still working - without a doubt. The creative source tours when he feels like it.  We both know he doesn't NEED the money, but room service and adulation every evening are pretty cool, and he loves hearing his music with his band, obviously.  The business-oriented section still does their business-efficient thing.  I've never known of Brian to attack Mike's operation.  The BBs have become a metaphor.  It's really interesting from that perspective, and we all have our preferences.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Help Light The National Christmas Tree WITH PROMO PHOTO
Post by: HeyJude on December 05, 2017, 06:45:19 AM
I had the sick bag at the ready and watched (after DVR-ing) the Hallmark Channel tree lighting "highlights" last night.

The show has never exactly been an "A-lister" event, but this year's lineup (predictably considering similar events over the last year garnering little interest from all but the most desperate folks) was particularly light on any recognizable names. There were a few, but they couldn't even muster nearly as prestigious a lineup as the "CMA Country Christmas" or "Macy's Thanksgiving Parade" or "Wonderful World of Disney Holiday Special" shows. Mike's band really was the top name, the headliner of this thing.

I eventually started scanning through the thing rather than watch it all. What I saw in the approximately 50% of the show I watched was a pretty palpable sense of boredom and sadness from much of the audience. Even the people that *wanted* to be there seemed ambivalent if not bored/annoyed to be there. Some little kids seemed to be having fun, an audience member now and then sang along, and everybody else looked bored and often depressed.

This is an actual screenshot of the guy HOSTING this event, taken *during*  Mike Love's performance of "Little Saint Nick." This is Mike's buddy, and even *he* seems like he'd rather be somewhere else:

(https://scontent-sjc2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/24775070_1956248207978533_2680663853632782850_n.jpg?oh=3966b53381214dbaa32008aaa8becfa5&oe=5A9628DA)

This isn't an indictment on Mike's performance (more on that in a moment), but rather the continued truly sad, downbeat nature of the country and of events connected to the guy in that bored picture above. Hundreds if not over a thousand empty seats at this thing (normally an "overflow" event in DC), and even the scant supporters of this guy seem like they don't want to be there. (As a sidenote: The recent Kennedy Center Honors show in DC avoided a similar "blah" night by not having the President or his wife in attendance at all, for the first time in 23 years as I recall).

Mike and Donald Trump are, as icky and gross as it makes many fans feel, good buds, and even *they* can't muster any holiday cheer for this thing. Truly depressing above all else.

As for Mike's performance, he and his band mimed to a pre-recorded (and again HEAVILY autotuned) version of "Little Saint Nick" (the TV producers wisely cut Mike's solo stuff; though an on-screen notice mentioned additional songs are found online at the event's website). If you ever wondered what it sounds like when you run a near laryngitis-level of raspiness through autotune, this is what it sounds like. Robo-rasp. Mike should give his voice a rest, *and* leave the autotune at home.

As awful as the "Do It Again" thing was on PBS back in July, this event was immensely more depressing. When the awful, banal back-and-forth between Kathie Lee and Dean Cain *isn't* the worst thing about the show, you know it's getting bad.  


Title: Re: Beach Boys Help Light The National Christmas Tree WITH PROMO PHOTO
Post by: CenturyDeprived on December 05, 2017, 07:55:14 AM
I had the sick bag at the ready and watched (after DVR-ing) the Hallmark Channel tree lighting "highlights" last night.

The show has never exactly been an "A-lister" even, but this year's lineup (predictably considering similar events over the last year garnering little interest from all but the most desperate folks) was particularly light on any recognizable names. There were a few, but they couldn't even muster nearly as prestigious a lineup as the "CMA Country Christmas" or "Macy's Thanksgiving Parade" or "Wonderful World of Disney Holiday Special" shows. Mike's band really was the top name, the headliner of this thing.

I eventually started scanning through the thing rather than watch it all. What I saw in the approximately 50% of the show I watched was a pretty palpable sense of boredom and sadness from much of the audience. Even the people that *wanted* to be there seemed ambivalent if not bored/annoyed to be there. Some little kids seemed to be having fun, an audience member now and then sang along, and everybody else looked bored and often depressed.

This is an actual screenshot of the guy HOSTING this event, taken *during*  Mike Love's performance of "Little Saint Nick." This is Mike's buddy, and even *he* seems like he'd rather be somewhere else:

(https://scontent-sjc2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/24775070_1956248207978533_2680663853632782850_n.jpg?oh=3966b53381214dbaa32008aaa8becfa5&oe=5A9628DA)

This isn't an indictment on Mike's performance (more on that in a moment), but rather the continued truly sad, downbeat nature of the country and of events connected to the guy in that bored picture above. Hundreds if not over a thousand empty seats at this thing (normally an "overflow" event in DC), and even the scant supporters of this guy seem like they don't want to be there. (As a sidenote: The recent Kennedy Center Honors show in DC avoided a similar "blah" night by not having the President or his wife in attendance at all, for the first time in 23 years as I recall).

Mike and Donald Trump are, as icky and gross as it makes many fans feel, good buds, and even *they* can't muster any holiday cheer for this thing. Truly depressing above all else.

As for Mike's performance, he and his band mimed to a pre-recorded (and again HEAVILY autotuned) version of "Little Saint Nick" (the TV producers wisely cut Mike's solo stuff; though an on-screen notice mentioned additional songs are found online at the event's website). If you ever wondered what it sounds like when you run a near laryngitis-level of raspiness through autotune, this is what it sounds like. Robo-rasp. Mike should give his voice a rest, *and* leave the autotune at home.

As awful as the "Do It Again" thing was on PBS back in July, this event was immensely more depressing. When the awful, banal back-and-forth between Kathie Lee and Dean Cain *isn't* the worst thing about the show, you know it's getting bad.  


Ouch. Sounds like it makes the Long Beach Ď81 performance look like Bernstein Ď66.

How heartwarming to see the brand name tied in with a pedophile supporter. BBs Party! over country.

Mike really knows how to conjure up the Christmas spirit by who he associates with. Make Americaís Band Take a Great Big Dump on its Legacy Again.

Completely figures that the only Youtube video that comes up is a vertically-filmed one.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Help Light The National Christmas Tree WITH PROMO PHOTO
Post by: NateRuvin on December 05, 2017, 08:07:32 AM
The funny thing is that I see Mike Love as the Donald Trump of Rock music... Or Trump as the Mike Love of presidents... however you want to look at it. :lol


Title: Re: Beach Boys Help Light The National Christmas Tree WITH PROMO PHOTO
Post by: guitarfool2002 on December 05, 2017, 09:10:49 AM
Here is the performance of "Little Saint Nick" from the broadcast, on the Hallmark website:

http://www.hallmarkchannel.com/national-christmas-tree-lighting/videos/the-beach-boys-perform-little-saint-nick-the-national-christmas-tree-lighting (http://www.hallmarkchannel.com/national-christmas-tree-lighting/videos/the-beach-boys-perform-little-saint-nick-the-national-christmas-tree-lighting)

Looks like "Unleash The Love" was cut from the final broadcast even though it was performed, as the audience videos posted earlier show.

I'm wondering if the producers of the show realized it was not a Beach Boys song, and not a Christmas song, and decided to cut it. Or if the Hollywood Christmas Parade 2016 is any precedent, in 2018 they'll green-screen Dean Cain in front of something festive holding up whatever Mike is selling next year and reuse the footage that got cut this year.



Title: Re: Beach Boys Help Light The National Christmas Tree WITH PROMO PHOTO
Post by: NateRuvin on December 05, 2017, 09:16:32 AM
So does anyone know about how these tracks are recorded? They don't sound live at all, they sound like they were recorded in a studio, and then autotuned. The various tracks they've mimed to the last few years, sound almost identical to disc two of Mike's new CD. It just makes me wonder- when Mike and his guys get a gig like this, do they head to the studio and record whatever song(s) they're performing? When I say the performances don't sound live, they have no ambience, they sound very dry.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Help Light The National Christmas Tree WITH PROMO PHOTO
Post by: HeyJude on December 05, 2017, 09:31:54 AM
The crowd shots remind me of a couple years ago when some awards show was on TV and Bono and The Edge were in the audience while someone performed, and they looked *beyond* bored. It was hilarious:

(http://akns-images.eonline.com/eol_images/Entire_Site/201633/rs_500x285-160403190320-Apr_03_2016_1846.gif)


Title: Re: Beach Boys Help Light The National Christmas Tree WITH PROMO PHOTO
Post by: HeyJude on December 05, 2017, 09:34:47 AM
So does anyone know about how these tracks are recorded? They don't sound live at all, they sound like they were recorded in a studio, and then autotuned. The various tracks they've mimed to the last few years, sound almost identical to disc two of Mike's new CD. It just makes me wonder- when Mike and his guys get a gig like this, do they head to the studio and record whatever song(s) they're performing? When I say the performances don't sound live, they have no ambience, they sound very dry.

The two most likely scenarios I can think of are:

1. Mike and the band simply went into a local studio somewhere recently and cut a quick version of the song, and then it was auto-tuned, etc.

2. Mike recorded the song during the same batch of sessions that yielded the other cover versions on the second disc of his album, and they used that to mime along with.

The recording they were miming to had a pretty similar sound and ambience to his recent album, so I'm guessing "Little Saint Nick" was given the same treatment, if not recorded during the album's sessions.

Seriously, they would have been better off just grabbing a soundboard recording of the band doing the song live last year and just mime to that.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Help Light The National Christmas Tree WITH PROMO PHOTO
Post by: NateRuvin on December 05, 2017, 11:06:36 AM
Exactly, a normal Beach Boys live show sounds exponentially better than the autotuned bs. I mean, seriously, did anyone hear Jeff's signature BW/BBs falsetto wail at the end of the song was so autotuned that I can't even begin to explain how horrible it sounds. Who approves this sh*t? I just have such a hard time imagining Mike or anyone on his team listening to all of the autotuned BBs product from the last few years, and being satisfied with the sound. For a band that is often regarded as the greatest vocal group of all time, you think everyone related to The BBs (Brian and Mike's respective camps included) would not take any shortcuts to get a "good" vocal sound. We've seen this happening since the C50 live album, and it boggles me. A little bit of autotune (like on almost all of BW's solo records) is fine- hell, as a producer, it's a blessing to be able to fix a bad note or two, but to just coat something in robotic automatic pitch correction to the point where it sounds like a computer trying to impersonate singing! I just don't get it. I don't think it's laziness, but I am just amazed that C50 live album, Unleash The Love, and all of these lip sync tracks are approved by someone!


Title: Re: Beach Boys Help Light The National Christmas Tree WITH PROMO PHOTO
Post by: CenturyDeprived on December 05, 2017, 11:11:54 AM
Exactly, a normal Beach Boys live show sounds exponentially better than the autotuned bs. I mean, seriously, did anyone hear Jeff's signature BW/BBs falsetto wail at the end of the song was so autotuned that I can't even begin to explain how horrible it sounds. Who approves this sh*t? I just have such a hard time imagining Mike or anyone on his team listening to all of the autotuned BBs product from the last few years, and being satisfied with the sound. For a band that is often regarded as the greatest vocal group of all time, you think everyone related to The BBs (Brian and Mike's respective camps included) would not take any shortcuts to get a "good" vocal sound. We've seen this happening since the C50 live album, and it boggles me. A little bit of autotune (like on almost all of BW's solo records) is fine- hell, as a producer, it's a blessing to be able to fix a bad note or two, but to just coat something in robotic automatic pitch correction to the point where it sounds like a computer trying to impersonate singing! I just don't get it. I don't think it's laziness, but I am just amazed that C50 live album, Unleash The Love, and all of these lip sync tracks are approved by someone!

"I haven't heard the song yet, I am sure with Al's voice and hopefully no autotune, the song will be great." - Mike Love

Practically comical in hindsight.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Help Light The National Christmas Tree WITH PROMO PHOTO
Post by: Emdeeh on December 05, 2017, 01:05:11 PM
I watched the show last night, but somehow missed seeing Mike, Bruce, & co., so just now watched the vid online. I have to agree, the autotune on Mike makes him sound like he's 85. I realize his voice is aging, but this audio treatment didn't do him any favors.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Help Light The National Christmas Tree WITH PROMO PHOTO
Post by: The LEGENDARY OSD on December 05, 2017, 01:35:16 PM

Anyone notice his eyes looking buggy? Looks like all the botox in Paris is taking it's toll.  :o


Title: Re: Beach Boys Help Light The National Christmas Tree WITH PROMO PHOTO
Post by: tpesky on December 05, 2017, 05:44:20 PM
Mike and the band  always sound below average to awful at every TV appearance I feel like. Their sound mix just doesn't translate well from a normal live venue. I don't know why.  Part of it is the softness/raspiness of Mike's voice I think. Mixed well in a small theatre it sounds good, but in a TV appearance it just doesn't do it.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Help Light The National Christmas Tree WITH PROMO PHOTO
Post by: guitarfool2002 on December 05, 2017, 07:58:18 PM
Exactly, a normal Beach Boys live show sounds exponentially better than the autotuned bs. I mean, seriously, did anyone hear Jeff's signature BW/BBs falsetto wail at the end of the song was so autotuned that I can't even begin to explain how horrible it sounds. Who approves this sh*t? I just have such a hard time imagining Mike or anyone on his team listening to all of the autotuned BBs product from the last few years, and being satisfied with the sound. For a band that is often regarded as the greatest vocal group of all time, you think everyone related to The BBs (Brian and Mike's respective camps included) would not take any shortcuts to get a "good" vocal sound. We've seen this happening since the C50 live album, and it boggles me. A little bit of autotune (like on almost all of BW's solo records) is fine- hell, as a producer, it's a blessing to be able to fix a bad note or two, but to just coat something in robotic automatic pitch correction to the point where it sounds like a computer trying to impersonate singing! I just don't get it. I don't think it's laziness, but I am just amazed that C50 live album, Unleash The Love, and all of these lip sync tracks are approved by someone!

The storyline is always how in control Mike is of his career, of his touring and music-making, how sharp he is in a business sense, etc. If he's that in control of his life and career, how hard is it to say Mike himself approves and has approved ALL of this?

And - Nice reference to BW's solo records Nate (comment in bold). I assume you've heard all of those albums and personally picked out the "autotune" on each, correct? If so, please inform me where it is audible, especially on BW's albums like Gershwin and NPP, I'd love to hear those examples for myself.



Title: Re: Beach Boys Help Light The National Christmas Tree WITH PROMO PHOTO
Post by: The Lovester on December 05, 2017, 09:00:13 PM
Exactly, a normal Beach Boys live show sounds exponentially better than the autotuned bs. I mean, seriously, did anyone hear Jeff's signature BW/BBs falsetto wail at the end of the song was so autotuned that I can't even begin to explain how horrible it sounds. Who approves this sh*t? I just have such a hard time imagining Mike or anyone on his team listening to all of the autotuned BBs product from the last few years, and being satisfied with the sound. For a band that is often regarded as the greatest vocal group of all time, you think everyone related to The BBs (Brian and Mike's respective camps included) would not take any shortcuts to get a "good" vocal sound. We've seen this happening since the C50 live album, and it boggles me. A little bit of autotune (like on almost all of BW's solo records) is fine- hell, as a producer, it's a blessing to be able to fix a bad note or two, but to just coat something in robotic automatic pitch correction to the point where it sounds like a computer trying to impersonate singing! I just don't get it. I don't think it's laziness, but I am just amazed that C50 live album, Unleash The Love, and all of these lip sync tracks are approved by someone!

The storyline is always how in control Mike is of his career, of his touring and music-making, how sharp he is in a business sense, etc. If he's that in control of his life and career, how hard is it to say Mike himself approves and has approved ALL of this?

And - Nice reference to BW's solo records Nate (comment in bold). I assume you've heard all of those albums and personally picked out the "autotune" on each, correct? If so, please inform me where it is audible, especially on BW's albums like Gershwin and NPP, I'd love to hear those examples for myself.


I know you love Brian Wilson, we all do, thatís why weíre here. But donít let it cloud your judgement. You cannot tell me that you do not hear auto tune on NPP at all. Thatís just being naive.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Help Light The National Christmas Tree WITH PROMO PHOTO
Post by: guitarfool2002 on December 05, 2017, 09:08:29 PM
Exactly, a normal Beach Boys live show sounds exponentially better than the autotuned bs. I mean, seriously, did anyone hear Jeff's signature BW/BBs falsetto wail at the end of the song was so autotuned that I can't even begin to explain how horrible it sounds. Who approves this sh*t? I just have such a hard time imagining Mike or anyone on his team listening to all of the autotuned BBs product from the last few years, and being satisfied with the sound. For a band that is often regarded as the greatest vocal group of all time, you think everyone related to The BBs (Brian and Mike's respective camps included) would not take any shortcuts to get a "good" vocal sound. We've seen this happening since the C50 live album, and it boggles me. A little bit of autotune (like on almost all of BW's solo records) is fine- hell, as a producer, it's a blessing to be able to fix a bad note or two, but to just coat something in robotic automatic pitch correction to the point where it sounds like a computer trying to impersonate singing! I just don't get it. I don't think it's laziness, but I am just amazed that C50 live album, Unleash The Love, and all of these lip sync tracks are approved by someone!

The storyline is always how in control Mike is of his career, of his touring and music-making, how sharp he is in a business sense, etc. If he's that in control of his life and career, how hard is it to say Mike himself approves and has approved ALL of this?

And - Nice reference to BW's solo records Nate (comment in bold). I assume you've heard all of those albums and personally picked out the "autotune" on each, correct? If so, please inform me where it is audible, especially on BW's albums like Gershwin and NPP, I'd love to hear those examples for myself.


I know you love Brian Wilson, we all do, thatís why weíre here. But donít let it cloud your judgement. You cannot tell me that you do not hear auto tune on NPP at all. Thatís just being naive.

I actually own and use Antares Autotune. I know what it does, how it works, how to properly set it and mix it on tracks, and basically the whole ball of wax.

Is that naive enough?

All I'm asking is for an example, either on Gershwin, NPP, and the like. Not an outrageous request by any means.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Help Light The National Christmas Tree WITH PROMO PHOTO
Post by: RubberSoul13 on December 05, 2017, 09:13:41 PM
No Pier Pressure has plenty of examples. Nearly every track actually...it's just WAY more subtle and more tasteful than on Mike's piece of garbage.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Help Light The National Christmas Tree WITH PROMO PHOTO
Post by: guitarfool2002 on December 05, 2017, 09:19:29 PM
No Pier Pressure has plenty of examples. Nearly every track actually...it's just WAY more subtle and more tasteful than on Mike's piece of garbage.

Ok! Give me one prominent or obvious one! Track, approx time, etc., and I'll listen. That's all I ask.  :)

I mean if we're going to bring that up in the context of Mike's latest TV appearance and album, I want to hear where the comparison might be which led to bringing it up regarding a BW album when the topic is Mike's latest music being Autotuned to the point of being obnoxious.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Help Light The National Christmas Tree WITH PROMO PHOTO
Post by: The Lovester on December 05, 2017, 11:11:15 PM
No Pier Pressure has plenty of examples. Nearly every track actually...it's just WAY more subtle and more tasteful than on Mike's piece of garbage.

Ok! Give me one prominent or obvious one! Track, approx time, etc., and I'll listen. That's all I ask.  :)

I mean if we're going to bring that up in the context of Mike's latest TV appearance and album, I want to hear where the comparison might be which led to bringing it up regarding a BW album when the topic is Mike's latest music being Autotuned to the point of being obnoxious.
Well first of all, Nate was the one who brought up auto tune, and if you bothered to read his post he obviously said it can be done TASTEFULLY, like on BW albums. You immediately got defensive about them, even thought he complimented the production. As for examples, listen to This Beautiful Day, Whatever Happened, or Guess You Had To Be There. To my ears, itís pretty obvious that there is something different about those vocals compared to say One Kind Iíd Love or TLOS. Brianís voice just sounds different, a little more electronic, whereas they sound much more organic on the two examples I gave. Again, Iím not the only one to have said this, so itís not just me pointing this out. Iím also not disagreeing or harping on Brian or whoeverís choice it was, but to say the album is completely free of it is just naive to me.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Help Light The National Christmas Tree WITH PROMO PHOTO
Post by: Mr. Wilson on December 06, 2017, 12:31:44 AM
sorry


Title: Re: Beach Boys Help Light The National Christmas Tree WITH PROMO PHOTO
Post by: Mr. Wilson on December 06, 2017, 12:38:29 AM
sorry never post when drinking fine wine..


Title: Re: Beach Boys Help Light The National Christmas Tree WITH PROMO PHOTO
Post by: guitarfool2002 on December 06, 2017, 12:38:57 AM
No Pier Pressure has plenty of examples. Nearly every track actually...it's just WAY more subtle and more tasteful than on Mike's piece of garbage.

Ok! Give me one prominent or obvious one! Track, approx time, etc., and I'll listen. That's all I ask.  :)

I mean if we're going to bring that up in the context of Mike's latest TV appearance and album, I want to hear where the comparison might be which led to bringing it up regarding a BW album when the topic is Mike's latest music being Autotuned to the point of being obnoxious.
Well first of all, Nate was the one who brought up auto tune, and if you bothered to read his post he obviously said it can be done TASTEFULLY, like on BW albums. You immediately got defensive about them, even thought he complimented the production. As for examples, listen to This Beautiful Day, Whatever Happened, or Guess You Had To Be There. To my ears, itís pretty obvious that there is something different about those vocals compared to say One Kind Iíd Love or TLOS. Brianís voice just sounds different, a little more electronic, whereas they sound much more organic on the two examples I gave. Again, Iím not the only one to have said this, so itís not just me pointing this out. Iím also not disagreeing or harping on Brian or whoeverís choice it was, but to say the album is completely free of it is just naive to me.



I actually own and use Antares Autotune. I know what it does, how it works, how to properly set it and mix it on tracks, and basically the whole ball of wax.

Is that naive enough?

All I'm asking is for an example, either on Gershwin, NPP, and the like. Not an outrageous request by any means.

I know Nate brought it up, which is why I replied to him and asked him the question. But I'm glad it's not just you pointing this out, whatever that's supposed to mean.

"a little more electronic"?  Ok.

Does anything at all on NPP or any of Brian's albums sound even remotely like what you heard on Mike's voice at this tree lighting or on his new album?

If NPP sounds electronic to your ears, on those tracks, how would you describe what Mike's voice sounds like on his new album? Any comparison?

So I ask you who has Mike's photo in your profile and namesake...how is there even a sliver of similarity to bring up Brian's albums, supposedly "all" of which were autotuned enough to warrant a comparisons or mention when the topic is Mike's voice being saturated with Autotune and no attempts made to mask that fact?

if Mike is such a great singer with such a strong voice, why wasn't the Autotune applied more subtly as you say it was done to sound "electronic" on those NPP tracks or any other BW releases?

Keep in mind, the way Autotune works is the more pitchy and off-key a singer is, the more Autotune will be noticeable as an effect moreso than a tool.

As it was the case, perhaps, on the C50 live release.

Maybe Mike is just a very pitchy singer who veers off key more often than not and has trouble in recent years with breath control and nailing pitches other than his "Be True To Your School" schtick.

Just watch any live version on Youtube of Kokomo or even Pisces Brothers from the last 3 years of Mike's touring, any audience recording that hasn't been treated to Autotune, and tell me Mike sings in tune consistently. He does not if those videos are any indication. And he also does not if his "disc 2" of Beach Boys remakes which are bathed in Autotune are any indication, despite Mike having sung those tunes for over 50 years.



Title: Re: Beach Boys Help Light The National Christmas Tree WITH PROMO PHOTO
Post by: guitarfool2002 on December 06, 2017, 12:41:09 AM
ok i git the last post. but u have to understasnd..... when  guitar fool  or hey jude post conversation ends... they know everything.. this goes back fucking years. ... lol

thanks to last  post.. stop the fucki-ng ego.. let it go.. jeez


 :ohyeah


Title: Re: Beach Boys Help Light The National Christmas Tree WITH PROMO PHOTO
Post by: Mr. Wilson on December 06, 2017, 01:47:02 AM
 jeez.. sttop with the auto tune... hurts my ears... my  GOD wear ears out.. WE got it... Mike is tone deaf.... O(K? Please.. sorry to everyone for posting while drinking.. i was out of line.. sorry


Title: Re: Beach Boys Help Light The National Christmas Tree WITH PROMO PHOTO
Post by: NateRuvin on December 06, 2017, 05:58:47 AM
"This Beautiful Day" is clearly pitch corrected. Especially those high notes. "If we could find a way, if you could only stay"

There's obviously no comparison between the use of pitch correction on NPP, for example, and Unleash The Love. The point I was trying to make is that it can be used as an effective tool in Brian's case (apparently so well, that someone who knows autotune software doesn't notice) and it sounds horrible when used as a crutch, in the case of Unleash The Love.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Help Light The National Christmas Tree WITH PROMO PHOTO
Post by: HeyJude on December 06, 2017, 06:26:54 AM
Oh Good Lord, please not with the "No Pier Pressure" autotune debates again. This went on for seemingly hundreds of posts/pages back in 2015.

Those who are saying autotune is on the album and *aren't* familiar with those debates, please go read those threads. Nobody will likely be convinced to change their mind/opinion, but hopefully you can at least read those threads and see that just about every angle/argument/tactic was used to argue for or against the presence of autotune. Given the entire premise of the debate is subjective, I don't think anything new can be added to the debate unless someone has uncovered in-studio footage of someone using a pitch correction plug-in on a PC or something.

The point with Mike's new album isn't simply that he used autotune. The issue is most notably that it's used excessively and in a distracting fashion. Separately, Mike made specific comments critical of autotune and seemed to sort of backhandedly accuse Brian and Al of using autotune, and also *directly* implied that something would be good if autotune *wasn't* used. In this regard, even if Brian used autotune on every song and also autotuned his phone calls to his friends, he still at least wouldn't be hypocritical, as he hasn't spoken out against its use.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Help Light The National Christmas Tree WITH PROMO PHOTO
Post by: Stephen W. Desper on December 06, 2017, 06:41:32 AM
COMMENT:

Having watched the Hallmark show and read all the comments here, I'll say this:

1)  I twice passed up the chance to see the M&B show in my area, because the amplification was all digital.  Forget about the natural intonation autotune destroys, listening to a live performance presented to you from a computer simulation (digital process) is, to me, just as destructive. The whole idea of going to a live show is to hear the energy produced by the performers, not a computer simulation of that energy. Many of you younger folks probably don't understand what I'm talking about since all you ever hear is digital sound. But an analog presentation, where the actual energy produced by the people on stage is merely amplified is so far removed from the digital representation we get today, makes what autotune does to the human voice seem secondary. Why go to a digitally amplified show? Just play a CD.

2)  I am really looking forward to whatever Alan has in store for his show. Alan would not be caught dead using any contraption like autotune. He is a purist. AND HE CAN SING circles around Mike or Brian. Maybe even Bruce, although Bruce still has a good voice. Besides being one of the nicest and kindest people you would wish to meet, Alan is the unappreciated Beach Boy or perhaps I should say, the  underestimated member.  Now if I can talk him into only using analog sound systems . . .


~swd   


Title: Re: Beach Boys Help Light The National Christmas Tree WITH PROMO PHOTO
Post by: The Lovester on December 06, 2017, 08:26:35 AM
No Pier Pressure has plenty of examples. Nearly every track actually...it's just WAY more subtle and more tasteful than on Mike's piece of garbage.

Ok! Give me one prominent or obvious one! Track, approx time, etc., and I'll listen. That's all I ask.  :)

I mean if we're going to bring that up in the context of Mike's latest TV appearance and album, I want to hear where the comparison might be which led to bringing it up regarding a BW album when the topic is Mike's latest music being Autotuned to the point of being obnoxious.
Well first of all, Nate was the one who brought up auto tune, and if you bothered to read his post he obviously said it can be done TASTEFULLY, like on BW albums. You immediately got defensive about them, even thought he complimented the production. As for examples, listen to This Beautiful Day, Whatever Happened, or Guess You Had To Be There. To my ears, itís pretty obvious that there is something different about those vocals compared to say One Kind Iíd Love or TLOS. Brianís voice just sounds different, a little more electronic, whereas they sound much more organic on the two examples I gave. Again, Iím not the only one to have said this, so itís not just me pointing this out. Iím also not disagreeing or harping on Brian or whoeverís choice it was, but to say the album is completely free of it is just naive to me.



I actually own and use Antares Autotune. I know what it does, how it works, how to properly set it and mix it on tracks, and basically the whole ball of wax.

Is that naive enough?

All I'm asking is for an example, either on Gershwin, NPP, and the like. Not an outrageous request by any means.

I know Nate brought it up, which is why I replied to him and asked him the question. But I'm glad it's not just you pointing this out, whatever that's supposed to mean.

"a little more electronic"?  Ok.

Does anything at all on NPP or any of Brian's albums sound even remotely like what you heard on Mike's voice at this tree lighting or on his new album?

If NPP sounds electronic to your ears, on those tracks, how would you describe what Mike's voice sounds like on his new album? Any comparison?

So I ask you who has Mike's photo in your profile and namesake...how is there even a sliver of similarity to bring up Brian's albums, supposedly "all" of which were autotuned enough to warrant a comparisons or mention when the topic is Mike's voice being saturated with Autotune and no attempts made to mask that fact?

if Mike is such a great singer with such a strong voice, why wasn't the Autotune applied more subtly as you say it was done to sound "electronic" on those NPP tracks or any other BW releases?

Keep in mind, the way Autotune works is the more pitchy and off-key a singer is, the more Autotune will be noticeable as an effect moreso than a tool.

As it was the case, perhaps, on the C50 live release.

Maybe Mike is just a very pitchy singer who veers off key more often than not and has trouble in recent years with breath control and nailing pitches other than his "Be True To Your School" schtick.

Just watch any live version on Youtube of Kokomo or even Pisces Brothers from the last 3 years of Mike's touring, any audience recording that hasn't been treated to Autotune, and tell me Mike sings in tune consistently. He does not if those videos are any indication. And he also does not if his "disc 2" of Beach Boys remakes which are bathed in Autotune are any indication, despite Mike having sung those tunes for over 50 years.


Well first of all, you also have Mike as your profile picture. Does that mean I think youíre biased? No. Thatís a silly argument. Second, nobody tried to compare Mike and Brian, or claimed that Mike never used it. You have brought that up yourself, arguing a point that I wasnít trying to make. And in regards to consistent singing, Iím sorry to say but you could the same thing with Brianís live performances. I would know, I was there. To think that anyone of them would be pitch perfect and holding them to that standard is unfair considering they are all 70+ years old. Iím not going to respond to a lot of your post because youíre trying to argue a point nobody was making, which is Mikeís voice/use of auto tune vs. Brianís.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Help Light The National Christmas Tree WITH PROMO PHOTO
Post by: HeyJude on December 06, 2017, 09:11:33 AM
COMMENT:
2)  I am really looking forward to whatever Alan has in store for his show. Alan would not be caught dead using any contraption like autotune. He is a purist. AND HE CAN SING circles around Mike or Brian. Maybe even Bruce, although Bruce still has a good voice. Besides being one of the nicest and kindest people you would wish to meet, Alan is the unappreciated Beach Boy or perhaps I should say, the  underestimated member.  Now if I can talk him into only using analog sound systems . . .


~swd   

I was always impressed that in December 1999 when recording the Las Vegas shows for his eventual "Live in Las Vegas" album, Al actually dragged an analog tape deck to Las Vegas to record them (or perhaps rented one; but I have a vague recollection of reading he brought his own).

Also, while I'm sure some ProTools entered into the "Postcard from California" process at some point, I think much if not most or all of the basic tracking for the album was done on analog tape, and that album has a great warmth to it missing from just about everything the Beach Boys have done in the studio (including still some great stuff) since the 70s.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Help Light The National Christmas Tree WITH PROMO PHOTO
Post by: HeyJude on December 06, 2017, 09:16:53 AM
"This Beautiful Day" is clearly pitch corrected. Especially those high notes. "If we could find a way, if you could only stay"

There's obviously no comparison between the use of pitch correction on NPP, for example, and Unleash The Love. The point I was trying to make is that it can be used as an effective tool in Brian's case (apparently so well, that someone who knows autotune software doesn't notice) and it sounds horrible when used as a crutch, in the case of Unleash The Love.

I think Brian has used autotune and other pitch correction software/methods at various points along the way. How much of it is on NPP I don't know, and I have zero interest in entering into *that* debate again.

But, I'm not so sure the moment you're citing on "This Beautiful Day" is one of those autotune moments. Brian actually sounds strained on those notes, precisely like what a 73-year-old would sound like trying to hit those falsetto notes (I noted how refreshingly honest that part of the song sounded in my review of the album back in 2015). If I were forced to weigh in on that one, I'd say autotune is *not* on that song, especially that segment of the song.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Help Light The National Christmas Tree WITH PROMO PHOTO
Post by: CenturyDeprived on December 06, 2017, 10:08:44 AM
"This Beautiful Day" is clearly pitch corrected. Especially those high notes. "If we could find a way, if you could only stay"

There's obviously no comparison between the use of pitch correction on NPP, for example, and Unleash The Love. The point I was trying to make is that it can be used as an effective tool in Brian's case (apparently so well, that someone who knows autotune software doesn't notice) and it sounds horrible when used as a crutch, in the case of Unleash The Love.

Unleash has Autotune atrocities that dwarf any pitch correction on NPP; that said, I hear Autotune on the chorus vocals on Whatever Happened. Particularly on the words "Nothing's where...", but again, it's more just a nuisance to my ears on that album, as opposed to being caked on in unlistenable amounts on UTL.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Help Light The National Christmas Tree WITH PROMO PHOTO
Post by: guitarfool2002 on December 06, 2017, 11:20:57 AM
This is also about perspective. In Spring 2015 there was a 10-second phone video of Brian tracking a part on "On The Island" in the studio that caused a flurry of comments crying about the Autotune, followed by "The Right Time" single released via video where the same cries of Autotune started showing up (regarding Al's vocals, BTW), followed by the album release where a lot of posters here who had either just signed up or had reactivated dormant accounts started with the same comments about Autotune. In some cases, the album was declared "unlistenable" due to the audible overuse of Autotune, according to those people. And it continued elsewhere around the web.

What HJ referenced was an interview and article that Spring which David Beard did with Mike for the Examiner website where Mike made the comments about Brian using Autotune, which caused an uproar.

So weighing all of that nonsense against what anyone can hear on both discs of "Unleash The Love", "Alone On Christmas Day", and the tree lighting "live" performance along with other live broadcasts, what can be heard on Mike's vocals across all of these releases since 2015 has been *exactly* the type of overt, overuse of Autotune on lead vocals that people were attaching to the NPP album.

So yeah, if Brian and co. did use Autotune on NPP, it was nowhere near what the comments and criticisms suggested in 2015 to where it was declared so obvious it was unlistenable, but the comments are actually appropriate and valid for Mike's current releases and appearances.

Maybe it's just a case of wanting some kind of balance and perspective in the whole deal. And if such perspective is lacking, perhaps a simple listening session where NPP and "Unleash The Love" get played side-by-side to where the difference between overusing Autotune and not (despite the commentary) will be heard crystal clear.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Help Light The National Christmas Tree WITH PROMO PHOTO
Post by: guitarfool2002 on December 06, 2017, 11:27:13 AM
I'd also like to readdress one of Nate's earlier points about who approved Mike's latest release if it is indeed that laden with Autotune and other less than pleasing sounds.

I'll repeat that we've been told many, many times how much Mike is in control of his life and career, how his business acumen is so sharp...it's difficult if not absurd to think Mike had little or no say in how his music would sound when released on his solo album and broadcast to millions on TV appearances.

In fact it's difficult to see any possibility other than Mike overseeing and giving final approval to anything with his name on it, from an album to a signature baseball cap with his new logo. Even the "That's Why God Made The Radio" album listed him as executive producer, which implies more than a passing level of control and say in what gets released and sold with his name on it.

Either that, or Mike doesn't have as much control over his career and business decisions as we're endlessly told he does.

I guess it's a case of deciding for yourself if Mike signed off on releasing an album that sounds this way or not, or whether he had any say in "Little Saint Nick" sounding as it did on the tree ceremony broadcast.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Help Light The National Christmas Tree WITH PROMO PHOTO
Post by: Stephen W. Desper on December 06, 2017, 01:06:06 PM
COMMENT to guitarfool2002:

All this talk about AUTOTUNE causes me to enlighten you-all that the so-called "autotune" device you believe to be a modern function of digital technology is NOT! Here is a quote from my book, 2nd part, Recording The Beach Boys (still unpublished) talking about a conversion of the 3M multi-track machine we used.

"Both featured capstan-less drives, making possible instant speed changes as the frequency supplied to the motor was varied. A custom-made variable speed oscillator (VSO) supplied the frequency variation. The VSO was keyboard-controlled to change speed (in musical harmony) by depressing the appropriate key on the Moog musical keyboard. For example, a singer could sing one continuous single note while playing a song on the keyboard. When played back, it sounded as if the singer had sung the song, that is, made the correct (and on key) melodic note changes within the song.  Or if you worked it out, you could play harmony with yourself. All this design was figured out and built by my engineer friend Bill Whitlock (former owner of Jensen Transformers)."

I used this feature mostly for Spring since the girls had intonation problems once in a while. However I did use it sometimes for the Boys.

Although it is not instantaneous in operation, it did the same thing. Made out-of-tune notes to become in-tune. Of course this was analog technology so it did NOT have any of the sonic artifacts that the digital autotune exhibits. It was just harmonic music. But it goes to show you that most of these digital gadgets are re-cycled analog thinking. We had "autotune" 50 years ago, only it sounded natural.


~swd


Title: Re: Beach Boys Help Light The National Christmas Tree WITH PROMO PHOTO
Post by: CenturyDeprived on December 06, 2017, 02:52:54 PM
COMMENT to guitarfool2002:

All this talk about AUTOTUNE causes me to enlighten you-all that the so-called "autotune" device you believe to be a modern function of digital technology is NOT! Here is a quote from my book, 2nd part, Recording The Beach Boys (still unpublished) talking about a conversion of the 3M multi-track machine we used.

"Both featured capstan-less drives, making possible instant speed changes as the frequency supplied to the motor was varied. A custom-made variable speed oscillator (VSO) supplied the frequency variation. The VSO was keyboard-controlled to change speed (in musical harmony) by depressing the appropriate key on the Moog musical keyboard. For example, a singer could sing one continuous single note while playing a song on the keyboard. When played back, it sounded as if the singer had sung the song, that is, made the correct (and on key) melodic note changes within the song.  Or if you worked it out, you could play harmony with yourself. All this design was figured out and built by my engineer friend Bill Whitlock (former owner of Jensen Transformers)."

I used this feature mostly for Spring since the girls had intonation problems once in a while. However I did use it sometimes for the Boys.

Although it is not instantaneous in operation, it did the same thing. Made out-of-tune notes to become in-tune. Of course this was analog technology so it did NOT have any of the sonic artifacts that the digital autotune exhibits. It was just harmonic music. But it goes to show you that most of these digital gadgets are re-cycled analog thinking. We had "autotune" 50 years ago, only it sounded natural.


~swd

That is interesting, thanks for sharing, Stephen.

Personally, I don't care and am not "offended" by the use of correction like that when it's used in a generally transparent manner, without the awful robotic artifacts. I don't feel it's some awful cheat that is horrendous, shameful, and bad simply in and of itself. (This is also how I feel about CG movie effects too).

But in today's era, the minute stuff jumps out in a distracting manner where the singer sounds like a completely artificial, robotic, and nearly anonymous voice, it bugs me SO much.

As such, I think it's important to make a distinction between the tasteful, thoughtful, and highly clever ways that devices like the one you mentioned were implemented in the past, as opposed to the lazy, soulless manner that Autotune ruins so much music today.

I have no doubt that if Mike truly needs some assistance in terms of pitch correction in the studio, that it could have been applied SO, SO much better and transparently than what was released. It's a combination of how much effort the singer is willing to put into getting as perfect a take as possible, of course. And then massaging some minor imperfections in a very careful manner in the digital realm, with a keen ear towards NOT having the pitch correction sound like robotic pitch correction.

On some tracks on Unleash The Love, it feels like the tasteful approach was done, where pitch correction is invisible, or nearly so (and this may be due to no pitch correction actually being used on some tracks, or perhaps it's there and just fortunately impossible to discern). But on many other tracks, it's a whole other story, IMHO.  I do think that people having an allergic reaction to Autotune has far less to do with being mad at the idea of an artist having the nerve to need some assistance (especially as they get older), but more about the manner *how* it is implemented. To sum it up, there's tasteful application of it, and there's completely distasteful application of it. Nobody should know it's there.

I think Mike signed off on his producer either going out of his way to make it sound intentionally "tuned" to sound more like modern day radio garbage (modern pop radio music is so incredibly unlistenable to me, due in no small part to Autotune, curious to know if you'd agree with that?)... or perhaps Mike simply didn't do enough vocal takes, especially on the cover songs, and the producer was forced to cobble together what little he had to work with. Or a combination of both. There's no reason, for example, that the backing vocals (sung by talented people not in Mike's age range) on Help Me, Rhonda sound the way they do. It's completely unacceptable, utterly. I hate to be so 110% negative about any music put out by this band, but this song's backing vocals in particular deeply bug my ears in an incredibly profound way. Literally excruciating to me, a disgrace. Just being honest.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Help Light The National Christmas Tree WITH PROMO PHOTO
Post by: Stephen W. Desper on December 06, 2017, 04:28:11 PM
COMMENT to CenturyDeprived:

The BEST correction in the studio for bad singing or missing notes is not "autotune."  We've done it for years.  It's called "punching in" and re-singing the part that you didn't get right in the first place. 

What ever happened to punching in?

~swd


Title: Re: Beach Boys Help Light The National Christmas Tree WITH PROMO PHOTO
Post by: DonnyL on December 06, 2017, 05:27:38 PM
I'm with Desper on this ... additionally, I have little interest in either Brian or Mike's latest music due to the very modern digital "style" apparent in everything I've heard. Overuse of Autotune is a symptom, which is quite frankly one of the less offensive qualities in my opinion.

I hope to see Al in Phoenix next month!


Title: Re: Beach Boys Help Light The National Christmas Tree WITH PROMO PHOTO
Post by: CenturyDeprived on December 06, 2017, 06:22:26 PM
COMMENT to CenturyDeprived:

The BEST correction in the studio for bad singing or missing notes is not "autotune."  We've done it for years.  It's called "punching in" and re-singing the part that you didn't get right in the first place. 

What ever happened to punching in?

~swd

Ain't that the truth!


Title: Re: Beach Boys Help Light The National Christmas Tree WITH PROMO PHOTO
Post by: guitarfool2002 on December 06, 2017, 06:37:00 PM
COMMENT to guitarfool2002:

All this talk about AUTOTUNE causes me to enlighten you-all that the so-called "autotune" device you believe to be a modern function of digital technology is NOT! Here is a quote from my book, 2nd part, Recording The Beach Boys (still unpublished) talking about a conversion of the 3M multi-track machine we used.

"Both featured capstan-less drives, making possible instant speed changes as the frequency supplied to the motor was varied. A custom-made variable speed oscillator (VSO) supplied the frequency variation. The VSO was keyboard-controlled to change speed (in musical harmony) by depressing the appropriate key on the Moog musical keyboard. For example, a singer could sing one continuous single note while playing a song on the keyboard. When played back, it sounded as if the singer had sung the song, that is, made the correct (and on key) melodic note changes within the song.  Or if you worked it out, you could play harmony with yourself. All this design was figured out and built by my engineer friend Bill Whitlock (former owner of Jensen Transformers)."

I used this feature mostly for Spring since the girls had intonation problems once in a while. However I did use it sometimes for the Boys.

Although it is not instantaneous in operation, it did the same thing. Made out-of-tune notes to become in-tune. Of course this was analog technology so it did NOT have any of the sonic artifacts that the digital autotune exhibits. It was just harmonic music. But it goes to show you that most of these digital gadgets are re-cycled analog thinking. We had "autotune" 50 years ago, only it sounded natural.


~swd

Awesome. That's what I love - The innovation and the mindset that if something doesn't exist, you create it and make it work. Thank you for sharing. I could read about this stuff all day.  :)


Title: Re: Beach Boys Help Light The National Christmas Tree WITH PROMO PHOTO
Post by: guitarfool2002 on December 06, 2017, 06:50:02 PM
COMMENT to CenturyDeprived:

The BEST correction in the studio for bad singing or missing notes is not "autotune."  We've done it for years.  It's called "punching in" and re-singing the part that you didn't get right in the first place.  

What ever happened to punching in?

~swd

Exactly! Spot on!  :)

A quick story...when my buddy and I started our studio production business 15 years ago, we made it a point not to invest in Autotune, or any of the drum sampling products that were very big at the time. We cut live drums (DW kit, awesome snare...), live guitars, live everything into Cubase, which we thought had a better flow than ProTools at that time. Had Reason too if someone wanted distressed drum loops or something, also for some keyboard sounds that were very usable in many styles.

We didn't invest in Autotune at that time also because it was kind of expensive, and we were already working to pay off the initial investments in the essential gear and keeping the gear running. Debt sucks.

But we'd get singers and songwriters in regularly, and there were pitch issues as a lot of them were not trained singers, or had not done studio recording in the past so were green to the process. What we'd do is be critical on the vocals, and go sometimes phrase by phrase trying to get it just right. That's old-school, at least in the modern mentalities, and the only modern comforts we had were automatic punch-ins in Cubase and also a slight pitch-shift control maybe up to +10 or -10 sharp or flat, which we did use but which was completely unnoticeable. Things like a bass phrase which was a victim of bad intonation, a vocal that trailed off at the end of the phrase, even one pedal steel gliss I did and remember well that fell just flat of where it needed to be. That pitch shift saved the track.

But no Autotune.

So what happened was other studios in the area did go into debt buying that stuff, like the Autotune plugins or racks, Drum-A-Gog or whatever the other popular programs were back then for sampling drums instead of mic'ing a full kit and actually playing a groove...and some of those clients we had been recording regularly began to go there.

It was because the process was faster I guess, but above all the Autotune and other bells and whistles made them sound better, or at least that's what they were convinced when they heard the vocal tracks mixed in after Autotune "fixed" and masked all the issues with pitch, breath, tone, etc. It was like the ultimate quick-fix elixir, just get on the mic and the guy at the Mac will fix it later. Whereas we were going line by line, punching in, and trying to get them to sing it right on the money.

I can understand it, it's business and competition and that competition gave these clients an easier way that required less time and effort to cut tracks, but the Autotune mindset as much as it is a great tool (which I still own after breaking down and buying it years ago) has possibly created a lot of lazy musicians for the next generations to come. I will say it does work wonders for backing vocals, though.


Title: Re: Beach Boys Help Light The National Christmas Tree WITH PROMO PHOTO
Post by: Stephen W. Desper on December 06, 2017, 08:03:44 PM
COMMENT:

"AUTOTUNE ,  personified as the engineer"


This one minute clip is a MUST SEE !!

>>> https://www.wimp.com/life-as-a-recording-engineer/

~swd


Title: Re: Beach Boys Help Light The National Christmas Tree WITH PROMO PHOTO
Post by: SMiLE Brian on December 07, 2017, 07:15:22 AM
Amazing! :lol :lol :lol


Title: Re: Beach Boys Help Light The National Christmas Tree WITH PROMO PHOTO
Post by: Rocker on December 28, 2017, 02:02:46 PM
Here's a video of the rehearsal for the show:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Tpf24DuopY