The Smiley Smile Message Board

http://petsoundsforum.com/thread/1876/start-day-smile?page=1&scrollTo=43197 (http://petsoundsforum.com/thread/1876/start-day-smile?page=1&scrollTo=43197)

Apparently opinions “mysteriously” changed about Jeff’s vocals when he left Brian’s band (I guess people actually liked his voice until he switched to Mike’s band?). To clear up any confusion, I gotta ask: did anyone ever like his falsetto?

I think I’ve always held the belief that I liked his voice when it was low in the mix, that includes to this day (live or studio) no matter what band he’s with. When his voice is mixed low in the song it’s actually listenable. As an example, here (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hu-bXvuPm7c) is the Rolling Stone anniversary acoustic version of Surfer Girl. And here (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=94iiWZDGaYg) is Barbara Ann live. That being said, I don’t think I’ve ever seen any consistently positive comments regarding his vocals...ever.

Btw, the rest of that thread is cancer, read at your own risk. Apparently RangeRover is a halfwit and maroon for expressing an opinion on this forum. To steal a line from Bob Corker, it’s like an adult daycare center over there.

I always thought jeff sang better in his non falsetto voice. Plus that researcher only looks up odds these days....

I don't know how much opinions "mysteriously changed" about Jeff's vocals after he left Brian's band. But I know for me personally, I can easily challenge anyone to go all the way back to 1999/2000 and the old Usenet archives where you'll find that I was calling for (more wishing for) Matt to sing the falsettos in Brian's band. I've always preferred Matt's voice to Jeff's.

I've often questioned a lot of the weird things involving Jeff exiting Brian's band and joining Mike. But what I can't deny is that musically Matt is preferable in every way.

I don't think anybody, apart from Al's 60s falsetto, has come super close to "sounding like Brian." But Matt is as close as it's ever gotten, and one of the things I vastly prefer in Matt's falsetto over Jeff's is something I've been pointing out for ages, which is that when Jeff reaches for a high note, he bends the note up into the high note, whereas Matt more often just sings the high note without bending.

I've also found Matt to be a more versatile singer, singing both "Brian parts" and "Mike parts" (more so in Al's band).

Some people complain about this guy or that guy sounding too nasal, and the fact is that all of them *have to* sound a little bit nasal, especially considering Matt's about 50 and Jeff is around 60 and they're trying to sing stuff Brian sang when he was like 22 years old.

I've always found Jeff's non-falsetto voice, his "regular" voice to be fine but nothing memorable. I've tried his "solo" stuff, and it has never done a lot for me.

I'm fine with Jeff's voice about 75% of the time. The worst he's ever sounded (the only time where I really couldn't listen) was here---
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_xSfwGc5Qw

Jeff's falsetto at the beginning is just so rough on the "I hear the sound" part. The rest of performance went fine--- UNTIL THE AUDIENCE CONTINUED CLAPPING AND IT WAS OFFBEAT AND F*CKED EVERYTHING UP! ... But that has nothing to do with Jeff...


Anyway, I usually don't mind Jeff's voice. I'd take him over Adrian Baker ANY DAY! Here's the worst clip I've ever heard of Baker--- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NGt30M7yqlI&list=FLjLWTx2xziJVn8NZOaLBz5Q&index=1

Scott was doing the falsetto great, but Adrian was so nasal, it sounded like a Beach Boys parody.

I love Jeff's non-falsetto voice and in an ideal band, he'd be singing mid range parts with Matt on top with Brian's parts.

Jeff is fine in a vocal stack, as long as he's *one* voice. Think of stuff like "Kokomo."

But as soon as you start adding two or three Jeff voices to the stack, his voice cuts through too much. That's how you end up with some of the TWGMTR songs that sound like "stack o' Fosketts" with additional guest stars.

Granted, anybody who is stacked multiple times is doing to be prevalent. But there's nothing soft about Jeff's voice; the timbre of his voice and nasality cuts through more than a typical harmony vocal.

I was never a big fan of Jeff's leads during the BB days. I've *always* been utterly perplexed why the one time Ringo Starr got on stage with the band, they left it to Jeff Foskett to sing "Back in the USSR." I dunno, maybe none of the other guys knew the words. But stuff like that, or years of Jeff singing "Little GTO", just kind of reeked of "tribute band" singer status, and indeed he ended up in "Papa Doo Run Run" after he left the BB touring band in 1990.

I prefer Jeff's mid range vocals particularly those on his solo albums most notably cool and gone. I was never a big fan of his falsetto. Matt jardines is so much better. And in regards to TWGMTR way too much Fosket on that album where most of the Beach Boys seem like guest stars on their own work

I did read that thread title but didn't click it, figured it's some random video with BBs music in the background. I usually read "Discuss BBs song" there. Yes, I like Adrian's falsetto better than Jeff's (who, btw, I still said is "good singer") - so what? To put some people's minds to rest, if we bring up the other falsetto singers, I'd rank them Matt, Randell Kirsch, Adrian, Jeff (who did I miss?). But the point was to compare Jeff & Adrian. I said who I prefer. Big deal. Some people at PS really bring down its reputation - apparently, they don't just "welcome any opinions". :P

Reading this board many years, I'll say that indeed Jeff's voice didn't exactly get much liking when he used to be in Brian's band.

WAY better than Adrian Baker, not as good as Matt Jardine

If people's opinions were more positive about Jeff when he was in Brian's band, perhaps it was because it was just nice to have a reliable singer to take Brian's parts, allowing Brian to relax and sing in his mid range. Or maybe Matt replacing Jeff was a revelation to a lot of people, who thought Jeff was pretty good...until they heard Matt. I think that was the case for me.

I remember taking my father and stepmother to see Brian when Jeff was still in the band. They were crazy for Jeff's voice. "Brian's voice isn't too great anymore, huh? But the one who sang falsetto...Wow! What a voice." And I found myself sort of... "Oh, really? I mean, he's OK. He's no Brian in his prime."

So, yeah. I guess my feeling is that he's good, but there are better falsetto singers out there. There's something about his voice that lacks... soul? Character? I can't quite pin it down.

Matt has simply owned the stage every show I saw him with Brian, especially his solo spots. He was the perfect addition to the group. It goes beyond just hitting the notes, there is a component of the groove and the feel of the songs that Matt seems to do instinctively, which is not surprising since he grew up with the music. But he nails that vibe which many try and few can actually do. I still can't get over hearing I Get Around on the NPP tour and just being blown away by the blend, especially the Jardines...I did close my eyes and it sounded as close as I've heard a live band get to what was on record 50+ years ago. It was the blend and the feel above all.

I think unfortunately with some circles of fans, it's like a sports figure. If he's on your team, he's an ace. If he's on another team, he's the goat. Such is life and such is the way BB's fans of certain mindsets have taken their opinions of Jeff. I noticed it too. When Jeff was with Brian's band, there were people regularly critical of him and his vocals...yet some of the same are now full of praise and accolades since he's Mike's right hand man. Again, such is life...but it's the same guy doing essentially the same thing.

Fans.  ::)

The mystery for me is what ever happened to Brian "Ike" Eichenberger...

He leaves Brian's band after getting the falsetto spot when Jeff walked away. Then he joins Mike's band, ostensibly as the falsetto singer in Mike's band since Randall Kirsch was out, then Jeff joins Mike...as the falsetto singer. And Ike is now in the backline mostly playing bass and not doing much in terms of falsetto singing after Jeff pretty much came in and took over.

As a musician I had a lot of admiration for Ike's musicianship as I wrote here when it was announced he had joined Brian's band to do falsetto. Ike of course led the touring/licensed version of the Four Freshmen, and was essentially playing the Bob Flanigan role for the group. He's an accomplished jazz guitarist, and he could simply *nail* that Bob Flanigan falsetto timbre...which, no accident, is also perhaps the closest to that classic 60's Brian Wilson falsetto voice. Brian modeled the vocals after Flanigan, not just the arrangements but the actual singing style too.

So it's kind of a mystery to have an accomplished musician who was brought in on the surface to sing falsetto and can sound almost exactly like Brian's main influence Flanigan and therefore Brian himself, yet he's hardly doing any of that with Mike and instead spends most of the show playing bass in the back while Jeff Foskett sings falsetto.

In terms of Mike's falsetto singers, I like Ike's voice better, if I had to give my opinion. Always wondered what kind of dynamic happened to find him not throwing his musical fastball within the band.

Ike coulda been a contender in BW’s band.....

I couldn't agree more than Ike is way underused in Mike's band. 

A glance at my post history will show that during the C50 I stated that this was the only time I enjoyed Jeff's voice
 I hated when he'd double Brian, because it would always throw Brian off-key almost without fail.


Gotta add one slight correction...Ike may have "officially"  joined Mike first , but "someone who should know" was already dropping hints about Jeff beforehand.

Ahh, most likely from an "impeccable source"?  ;D

Seriously though, that adds another layer to the whole saga of Mike's falsetto singer. I do think Ike is underused because not only is he a solid musician with credentials, but he can nail that early 60's BW falsetto...and instead Jeff is doing most of not all of those falsetto parts and leads with Mike. It doesn't make sense unless there is more to the whole deal.

I always liked Jeff's voice.  But I think Matt Jardine really breathed new life into Brian's band.

Also, not to get off-topic but AGD's attack on RangeRover is really uncalled for.  She's entitled to her own opinions.

Aye, there's the rub as they say: Matt did indeed bring tons o' goodness to Brian's band, not just the solo falsetto leads but in the blend too...nothing can beat family blending their vocals, and there's Al and Matt singing in a terrific group vocal blend.

And it goes back to when it was announced Ike was leaving Brian and joining Mike's group...I thought as perhaps many fans did that it was to breathe new life into Mike's band and get a falsetto singer who can sound pretty damn close to the Brian falsetto on all those early hits that Mike tours behind. Mostly because it was announced and assumed Ike would be replacing Randall Kirsch. But instead Jeff comes in and all but takes over, and is in the frontline of the stage doing all those falsettos which (opinion here) Ike could do better or more authentic if authentic sound is the goal. Now it turns out the impeccable sources were whispering that Jeff was going to join Mike *before* Ike joined Mike? Odd.

After everything that happened, is that any surprise? What's that old saying about a leopard not being able to change its spots? That's who they are, that's how they act, that's what they do. No surprise.

I love Matt's vocals in Brian's band, however I have never liked his lead vocal on WIBN. I wish Al would do the lead like he did for so many years, and even on Brian's PBS show. On WIBN, Matt's voice sounds a little thin to me, where Al's voice has a roundness to it .

Christ. Internet is an ugly place. Anyway, seen both Jeff and Matt live, I wouldn't badmouth Jeff. He's a fine singer, but something in his falsetto didn't quite blend as well Matt's. I'm not saying it stuck out like a sore thumb, but... A healthy thumb, maybe?

To my ears, Jeff's falsetto is hit or miss. I do think there's too much of him on TWGMTR, and it tends out like a sore thumb. Maybe we're talking about two separate things, though:

1. The falsetto alone
2. The falsetto in the blend

It's tough for me to say whose falsetto I like alone, because nothing-- absolutely nothing-- compares to Brian's soaring, unabashed and overpowering falsetto in the early to mid 60's. That can never, ever be recreated or even approximated.  Speaking just about the falsetto part on its own, I judge them based on how well they fill that Brian slot.  Given those parameters, I'll take Jeff because it is more rounded. Listen to Jeff's "Through My Window" and tell me that's not Brian-esque.  Jeff's standalone falsetto is generally good, regardless of whose band he's in.

But... blending well into the vocal stack is a whole other thing. Jeff's falsetto in harmonies sticks out pretty badly in most cases. For falsetto in the vocal blend, I'll take Matt. (I never really saw or heard any of the others enough to make a judgment on them.)

Thus, if I'm putting together a fantasy Beach Boys band and 60's Brian isn't available, I'll take Jeff on the standalone falsetto vocals and Matt in harmonies.

To clear up the Foskett/Ike (and related band moves) chronology, I think it goes like this:

Late 2013/Early 2014: Jeff is no longer in Brian's band (full story yet to be told on that one)
- Brian's band hires Matt Jardine as a replacement

Spring/Summer-ish 2014: Jeff joins Mike's band
- Christian Love is the person whose exit makes room for Jeff

Mid-late 2014: Matt Jardine is unable to do some Brian gigs. He's replaced for one gig by a guy from the Fendertones (if I'm recalling correctly), and then Brian "Ike" Eichenberger. Ike does the rest of the very small number of 2014 gigs Brian performs. Matt Jardine joins Ike for the PBS "Soundstage" gig.

Early 2015: "Ike" is announced as having joined Mike's band.
- Randell Kirsche is the member who exits to make room for "Ike"
- Matt Jardine comes back full-time to replace Ike in Brian's band.

So Jeff was there in Mike's band for quite some time (mid-2014 to early 2015) before Mike hired Ike. The fact that Mike didn't seem to *need* Ike in his band (both because Kirsche seemed to be doing a fine job and because Mike already had one and arguably several falsetto guys) seemed to contribute to the perception/appearance that he poached Ike from Brian's band just to be a dick.

Musically, I think this all made things better. The only person who probably got the shaft was Randell Kirsche, who doesn't appear to have left Mike's band by his own choice. I think Christian Love was rumored for quite some time to want to leave full-time work in Mike's band, so presumably he wasn't literally booted to make room for Jeff.

‍

I have never cared for Foskett's voice. There have been shows where he's sounded better than others but all in all, I've never cared for it.

One thing that needs to be clarified, is that Mike's band has never had a sole "falsetto guy". They all rotate this role around the band from Foskett, to Totten, to Ike, and even Bruce still sings a fair amount of the top line. It would seem the key to staying in Mike's band is versatility (wide vocal range/multi-instrumentalist) OR...be Bruce Johnston.  :lol

That's about right. I'd heard about Foskett around summer to fall 2013...I'll have to look through my pm's.  It was "hinted"at but so obvious that Ray Charles could see it.

I was hoping that when Jeff joined Mike's band he would be singing Carl's parts and letting Ike do most of the falsettos. Unfortunately, that hasn't happened. I think the sound would be better that way. It's fine, but could be better. You wonder how much longer Jeff can hit those notes, he's not getting any younger and at 150 plus dates a year.

Yeah I agree. And apologies to RangeRover for me putting a spotlight on that thread...I just honestly can’t believe an apparent adult is getting his panties in a twist over the falsetto preference of a forum member here. Surely you must have something better to do with your time?

And thanks for the replies everyone! I really thought that the opinion regarding Jeff’s falsetto was kinda “meh” no matter what time period...this has seemed to be a consistent opinion from even the hardcore Brianistas. Just wanted to make sure that history didn’t become revised.

It’s a t(rab).... ;)

The timeline, then, does suggest Mike didn't need Eichenberger if Foskett had already signed on months before. And it begs the question yet again if Mike already had a guy who plays rhythm guitar and handles falsetto vocals...yet hires a guy who arguably could be better at nailing the same 60's voice for a more true replication of the nostalgia trips Mike peddles at every show...why is Ike relegated to thumping basslines in the backline when the guy has the chops and the sound to essentially be the "Brian" voice in any upper-tier tribute band if not do soundalike gigs with that voice and range?

If this hiring were political or personal, that's pretty low-class I'd say.

He choose poorly to work for a poacher.....

What I did remember though is that Brian and the band were booked on Conan Obrien's TV show where they did Runaway Dancer, and I think that may have been the first time publicly Ike did not play with them after he split to join Mike...but I was not sure on when Jeff joined Mike. Not that I cared a lick about that in light of the info since shared in this thread, but it's good to keep the dates straight anyway.

If Mike wants to keep a guy with a solid and authentic falsetto like Ike offers in the background, ultimately who cares. His call.

i allways thought Jeff had more of a Dean Torrence kind of voice than BW voice. Jeff sounded better being doubled by Taylor Mills back in the day.. Smile comes to mind..

Kinda going off topic here, but man I really miss Taylor Mills being a part of the band. Her moments on BWPS give such a weird (but great) dynamic on that album...I Wanna Be Around for instance - to hear a female echo Brian Wilson is so different from what we’re used to, and it works so well. I wonder what she’s up to these days.

I miss Taylor in the blend too. Apart from the overall experience and amazement of seeing Brian on that first tour (and naturally the music presented including Pet Sounds and other deep cuts), perhaps the biggest pleasant surprise was hearing Taylor as a female voice added to the vocal blend. And I agree, the Smile shows and recordings benefited greatly from her vocals.

I looked on her Instagram and 99 percent of the photos are of her daughter. I'm wondering if she's just enjoying being a full time mom and an offer to rejoin would be turned down. On the other hand, maybe it wouldn't. Who knows? At least I'd love to hear her voice on a future Brian recording. By the way, if you scroll through her Instagram, there's a nice photo of her with Brian's band. She was at the Austin show and went backstage.

2rab2591: It's fine, the blah blah speech is just blah blah.

I praised Eichenberger before in M&B thread for beautifully singing YSBIM. Iir, he didn't sing falsetto but high register sung in usual voice. It's cool way (technique?), case in point - "We'll Run Away" middle 8. Yep, Taylor Mills fit right in, team worker.

The timing of Ike leaving Brian and joining Mike seemed rather abrupt as I recall.

Brian did "Jimmy Kimmel Live" which was aired on April 2, 2015. It may have been taped earlier by a few days or a week or so as Kimmel sometimes does with musical guests; I can' t remember. Ike was with the band on this performance.

Brian announced on April 4, 2015, only two days later, via Facebook: "I am thrilled to let you know that Matt Jardine has rejoined my band effective immediately."

Brian did "Conan" on April 8, with Matt back in the band.

Mike announced via Facebook on April 17, 2015 that Randell Kirsche was gone and that Ike had joined. (As a sidebar, I thought it was kind of funny that Mike's post, https://www.facebook.com/OfficialMikeLove/posts/825101930901983 , appears to use a grainy surveillance photo of Ike to welcome him to the band.)

I've had some "Mike-friendly" folks try to parse/justify/spin the Foskett move in 2014, but I haven't had even the most staunchly sympathetic Mike supporters deny that the whole thing at least gave the appearance that Mike "poached" Ike from Brian's band, and Randell Kirsche was booted in order to make this happen.

It appears they all did the minimal PR they could to mitigate everything; such as announcing Matt was back before Mike had a chance to announce Ike was joining his band, and Mike starting his announcement with Kirsche's departure, *followed by* announcing Ike's joining, kind of implying Kirsche's departure happened first.

Jeff's high voice is acceptable.  He used to be better at it ...'til about a decade ago... but heh!!!  We all get older and certain assets don't survive the 'voyage'.  The problem with Jeff's falsetto is it has NO personality. He really only ever sounded like a guy trying to sing in falsetto.  It's kind of like he never really learned how to play THAT SPECIFIC instrument beyond just doin' the basics...which makes it "acceptable"...but nowhere near great.  It reached the point where he was no longer good enough to be a part of Brian's ensemble.  He's good enough to do what he's doing now though.  [living back in the minor leagues.]

AND...He's is absolutely no Carl Wilson.  In that regard Jeff is strictly a minor-leaguer.

My guess/interpretation, and this is nothing more than that, is that both Jeff and Ike being in Mike's band are political, but for somewhat different reasons.

Jeff is essentially Mike's new Bruce. When Mike goes to some functions without the touring band, Jeff is often with him. There are numerous events and photos from the last few years with just Mike and Jeff.

I think Ike is more just a hired backing guy, and while Jeff is more embroiled in the internecine politics of the BB world, I think Ike was brought in to simply stick it to Brian's camp and also to get some younger blood into his band.

It would be interesting to know if Ike had already contracted to do the 2015 tour with Brian and bailed, or if they knew Ike was being poached.

That version of Surfer Girl I put up in the original post perfectly showcases how his falsetto can be a great asset. But I totally agree with the consensus that there isn’t much soul in his falsetto...it’s kinda just there. To try and emulate Brian/Carl Wilson is an impossible task, and I don’t envy anyone who has to take on that role night after night.

Matt does an incredible job taking over those parts though - I’ve been to a few concerts where he has gotten lengthy standing ovations for his falsetto leads. He makes the lead vocals his own while also keeping with the spirit of the original tunes - probably the best tactic to take.

The line in [bold] would be pretty low-class if true, as I mentioned before, but it's hard not to think that was factor when you look at how all this unfolded. And at least to me as a musician, how it feels a talented guy like Ike who can deliver a fastball for the band and capture that early 60's BW vocal timbre is more or less in the background and not utilizing one of his biggest strengths. But again, if that's what Mike and Jeff and whoever else want, then so be it.

The argument about Brian's band not playing enough shows to satisfy working musicians who want to tour more regularly pretty much collapsed in Spring 2015 and is all but null and void as of Fall 2017. Brian has been touring extensively for 2 years solid and still going.

I think Ike is very good.  Something that no one else seems to have picked on (or perhaps it is just opinion with which no one will agree) - there is a certain not classical but... formal quality to his voice which I wouldn't normal associate with the Beach Boys catalogue and for me this sticks out a little bit in his lead vocals in particular.  I still enjoy his singing and I don't necessarily think this makes him a less suitable guy for the job.

Imo Jeff is not bad by any means, but his voice lacks any "sweetness". Matt, on the other hand... :)

Sam_BFC I noticed that too !!

He has a great voice, but his voice sounds too classical to sing rock n' roll songs

Before Tuesday night (when I saw the Mike Love group in Dallas), I tended to like Jeff and Matt about equally.  It does appear there is a slight pro-Matt bias now, since there is a pro-Brian bias on average among Beach Boy fandom.  I agree that Jeff mainly just basically hits the notes but there's nothing special there.  And while Matt is a very good singer, I have though he sounds a little on the shrill side -- maybe that's too harsh, just not as buttery soft as Brian's 1960s falsetto, more of a hard edge to it (of course, ridiculous to ask anyone to try to compare).

Ike, on the other hand, was a revelation.  I had seen the Mike Love group a couple of years before at an outside performance at the State Fair, but Tuesday night was in a small, intimate concert hall setting with great acoustics (The Majestic Theater in Dallas - P.S. Stamos joined them, which was a surprise and made it more fun for my wife....).  I was able to watch and hear the Jeff falsetto vs. the Ike parts (he sang lead on I'm So Young and, I think, Why Do Fools Fall in Love; also he joined them for Their Hearts Were Full of Spring acapella).  WOW!  Maybe it's his Four Freshmen pedigree, but he is a real stallion that Mike has hidden on the back row.  His voice and timbre are far closer to vintage Brian than EITHER Jeff or Matt.  Not sure why he isn't rocking all those parts, vs. Foskett.  Contracts, longtime affiliation, politics, who knows?  But, Ike would be fantastic as the full-time Brian falsetto singer.  Oh well - ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I agree with your comments about Ike he is clearly a better singer and falsetto singer than Jeff. But I don't care much to see this version of The Beach Boys and I haven't since Carl past. Just doesn't do anything for me feels like a tribute band

Ike is a great singer but I agree as posted above he does a more classical feel as opposed to a pop/rock feel. His phrasings sound very formal like he is singing in a formal symphony performance.  He doesn't have Brian's phrasings.  Matt is better at that. Al was the best. One of the reasons why Al is so effective at singing Brian leads is because he has the same  vocal phrasings

I'm biased towards Jeff since I saw the BB's a lot during his first go round in the 80's. Always liked his lead on Warmth of the Sun; thought he did nicely on Don't Worry, Baby, too. Not so crazy about his lead on Back in the USSR.
Jeff also had a great solo part on America's Overwhelming World from their 1998 album Human Nature.

Almost any modern-day attempt to recreate those Brian high vocal parts is going to sound, at times, a bit "shrill."

Let's also remember that Brian hit his peak in his *20's*, and most of the guys doing those parts now are in the 40s, 50s, and near 60s.

Eichenberger has to be in his early 40s at least; according to Wiki he joined the Four Freshmen in 1996. Assuming he was at least 20 years old when he joined, he's in his 40s.

Matt Jardine is around 50. Foskett has to be in his mid-late 50s at least.

Ike sounds good, but his style is so far removed from the "Beach Boys" style that, for me, it highlights even more the anonymous, tribute band sound Mike's band continually has.

I am surprise Jeff is still doing the BWPS (And Im' Pickin Up") part with Mikes band. I never had a problem with Foskett vocally when he was in Brians band though his jokes were really tiring. Matt is a better singer by far.

I think Jeff's falsetto is pretty weak...serviceable, but still pretty weak.

Apparently Ike sang all the falsetto parts a couple of days ago at the columbia, mo show. Jeff was there but not singing.