The Smiley Smile Message Board

Hello everybody
can someone posts images about Beach Boys reel tapes archives? It would be nice to have a thread about these pictures. I'm a huge fan of the BB and I would love to see those pics.

PS. I once saw the famous pictures about Ed Roach but I can't find them anywhere. I tried different search engines with advanced search options, I remember the two files were named "shelf.jpg" ang "library.jpg".
Vale

Those pics have been mentioned a few times recently. Hopefully some new info pops up soon.

This is presumably talking about the mysterious pic of debatable veracity, depicting an unknown tape archive full of tapes that are apparently not in the BRI vaults, correct? The yellow labels with weird titles like "Bellagio" and "Dumb Angel" and "St. Paul Remote", etc.?

The pic does weirdly now seem to be hard to find. All of the links to it in old threads here appear to be dead. So I'd love to see the pic again if someone has it. I'm sure someone snagged it and saved it.

It appears there was some intense debate/research regarding the pic back in 2011 here, but no firm conclusions were reached.

I have a vague recollection that Ed Roach posted the pic in the last year or two on his Facebook page, and/or shared someone else's post of the pic.

Here's the pic (https://i.imgur.com/owjEa0s.jpg)

Yes that's exactly the picture I'm talking about! I searched the picture on Ed's Fb page also but it's not there.
This picture is becoming an obsession for me! :D

Sorry but I can't see no picture here

EDITED: I saw it, my browser was blocking it :D thanks!!

Yesterday I went back and read the 2011 thread on this. Even after contacting a few associates who might have some insight (David Sandler, etc.), it didn't appear that any conclusions were reached.

It was quite an interesting thread, bobbing and weaving through potential photo doctoring, an "empty tape boxes" theory, a "crazy fan" theory, a less inflammatory "devoted fan" theory, the "random guys in St. Paul ran into the BBs and somehow procured some tapes" theory, a "doesn't matter what Desper, Mankey, etc. say, I think these are legit vintage BB tapes" theory, and so on.

If it was/is a fan simply goofing around (either for their own amusement or as a "hoax"), it required a fan with not only some specialized BB knowledge, but also access to materials beyond typical consumer grade, such as 1/2 inch tape. It's a fun mystery. Commercially released 1/4 inch open reel album releases suggest just a fan. Notations like "St. Paul Remote" suggest a legit tape. Then there's the mixed possibilities. Legit tapes in a legit facility. Legit tapes in the hands of fans/collectors. Fake tapes in the hands of innocent collectors/fans. Fake tapes in the hands of a fan looking to perpetrate a hoax. Then there's the issue of the vintage of the photo. The older it is (e.g. the early-mid 70s), the less likely in my mind that it's a hoax, as the earlier time frame requires specialized knowledge where there was limited access back in the day, and the smaller the "audience" would be for such a hoax. If some nerd fan doctored this all up in the late 90s or early 2000s, then it would make a lot more sense in terms of their easier access to info, and a much larger potential audience.

Frankly, the story is just as interesting (or nearly, anyway) to me even if it's a 100% hoax.

I agree with you, it's a really interesting story. I think that at some point of their career Brian and the BB were not in complete control of their material, I mean by the ending of 60s until mid 70s. So maybe these tapes are copies made by BB friends at that time or simply original tapes. It really is a mystery.
I'm obsessed with these stuff because I'm trying to recreate the same reel tape box from Scotch 3M in cd digipack (with slipcase) format for my personal collection, really detailed with the master reel control file sheet and everything. That's why I'm trying to collect all the images about Scotch reels. I've been working on it for so many years, it's my version of SMiLE, a never ending project close to pefection.
I would love to pass it on to my son.

So, the crazy fan hypothesis is not so remote, btw.
Vale, Italy

One of the things I thought about, though, was that if this was a fan "hoax" done circa 1974 or so, how much research materials would they have had easy access to? The cover of "Stack o Tracks", and then, what else?

If one were trying to make the tapes look interesting/rare, why label most of them with stock album titles? Even without specialized knowledge in 1974 about what was in the vaults or what specific tracks might be considered rare, they could have easily labeled the tapes "1972 Holland Sessions" or "Pet Sounds Rough Mixes", etc. The actual picture makes it seem like, even if the tapes *are* legit, only a few of them are potentially interesting. If they're all legit, then they're mostly back-up/safety copies (weirdly copied onto 1/2 inch tape instead of 1/4 inch tape?) of familiar albums. Heck, even if someone in 1974 didn't know any better and though original album masters would all be on 1/2 inch tape, the tapes in the pic wouldn't be super interesting to collectors wanting rare and unreleased material. What's more interesting to a fan, even in 1974. Session outtakes, or knowing that a fan has the original album master for "Holland" instead of the safety copy in the Brother vaults? Archivists would want the original masters, and fans decades later would want them for better-sounding album remasters. But what would interest a hardcore BB fan in 1974? Smile stuff and other session outtakes. The weird "Dumb Angel" label and a few other tapes in the pic meet those criteria, but most of the labels don't.

COMMENT to Vale:

As the person who actually labeled many of the multi-track (1" and 2") and the stereo master tapes (1/4") represented in this photo, I can tell you without any doubt that this photo is the work of a fan. Perhaps the boxes are full of tapes, copied from LPs or CDs -- who knows. The fact that much of the labeling is lined up indicates that the collection was labeled with one discipline in mind, which is not the case in real studio life. Holland, Surf's Up and Sunflower were never on 1" tape as shown in the photo. Evidently this collection is the work of someone named Paul Bramsem and/or Robert E. Rolle, or so says the sign to the right of the tapes.

In my own personal collection of commercially released 1/4" quarter-track tapes, I took several Beatles Albums and spliced them all together onto one 10 1/2 in reel, just for convenience. The tape box is labeled "Beatles Hits" using the same yellow tape. I suppose some day in the future someone could come across that box and think -- Wow! what a find -- authentic Beatles tapes -- when in fact they are just commercial copies.    ~swd

WOW! Finally saw the pic!
Thanks Stephen for the answer, it's really an honor! The age of the photo still remains mysterious, though; because if it's from the 70s how many would have known about Dumb Angel? If it's rather recent instead, i can understand especially with the internet boom in the mid 90s.
Maybe it's really a fan-made.. looking at the photo it seems they were labeled the same day, with the same pen, with the same hand ..., too much order.
:)

If you just kind of imagine these as, say, cassettes rather than open reel tapes, then it's easy to imagine it's a fan duping copies of albums and then doing some compilations. And then, I guess, having a few live recordings of unknown origin.

Assuming there was some sort of superfan who, instead of using cassette tapes, had access to higher end (for consumers) open reel gear (1/4 inch, 1/2 inch, maybe even 1 inch?), that would explain most of this potentially.

The wrench in all of this is if the photo really is from the mid 70s. Ed Roach described likely being given the photo around that time. Were there a lot of live boots floating around of the BBs in the early 70s? A St. Paul gig? And even if this "Dumb Angel" tape is just some common "Smile" boot stuff dubbed onto tape, it would then have to be from the late 70s or early 80s at the very earliest, as I don't believe there was "Smile" stuff circulating in 1974-75.

If the photo dates from later than 1975 or so, then there's the question of why there's no post-1973/74 stuff in this photo. I don't think a superfan would be into everything through "Holland" and then just have zero interest in "15 Big Ones" or "Love You." Then again, maybe the pic is from the 80s and there is 1976-80s material on the lower shelf, or some other shelf.

There are potentially other questions. If this just some superfan/audiophile from the 70s, why wouldn't they have just sought out commercially-released open reel tapes of the albums instead of dubbing the albums (presumably from vinyl or open reel) onto another open reel tape? If they indeed did own open reel versions of some of these BB albums, why then also dub the albums onto their own home-made reels? A hobbyist just goofing around, one that is also a huge BB fan, could *potentially* explain all of this for sure. But it's interesting nonetheless.

Also worth noting that, if this is just some hobbyist fans, I can't decide if it's really presumptuous and egotistical to have those little plaques up "crediting" themselves, or if it's adorably almost endearing for someone to have that much enthusiasm.

off to the far left in that photo one can actually see a bit of commercial reel-to-reel tape releases (perhaps not beach boys, the label printing's just too small)

those boxes are for 10 inch diameter reels and are about double the thickness of the 1/4" tape boxes at the bottom so i'll say they hold 1/2" width tape.  1/2" blank tape on 10-1/2" reels is not a very common consumer recording format but it is/was out there

the question of why not buy the beach boy albums on commercially released pre-recorded tapes instead of a fan dubbing his own record albums onto the larger reel format need not be relevant.  those of us who had fancy reel recorders then did such things all the time (it didn't have to make any particular sense).  also, over the years the commercially available pre-recorded beach boy album tapes were quite scattershot in quality, the oldest ones on capitol being double-album pairings on one reel at the inferior 3-3/4 IPS speed (only pet sounds was a single 7-1/2 IPS release in 1966 and that was brief and hard to find).  The brother/reprise ones went back and forth between 3-3/4 and 7-1/2 speeds illogically (except from a tape cost standpoint) album to album title

my guess is what we're seeing here is a kind of fan beach boy tape library copycat open reel setup.  he'd seen some old private photographs (perhaps from Brian) and set out to create his own version of it from memory

This all mostly seems plausible (and indeed, if most of the commercial open reel albums were not put out at 7 1/1 IPS, then the sound wouldn't be all that amazing).

But one still has to wonder what the thought process was behind some of the tape titles, like "Vegetables" or "Add Some Music to Your Day" or "Belliago" (sic). If the idea was to make some rudimentary attempt at making the tapes *appear* like authentic BB vault tapes, then why also make up random titles for some tapes, most of which aren't descriptive at all?

The St. Paul live tape is perhaps the most perplexing. It connotes either a really weird, random fabrication, or that the people doing these tapes did work in some industry vaguely related, and perhaps worked for a local radio station or studio that was able to tap into the board for a BB gig in St. Paul. I can't imagine calling it a "remote" if it was just an audience recording; though again crazy fans fabricating stuff can do anything. But then gets us back to, if one is fabricating stuff, why not fabricate at least a few even *more* interesting bits? Most of the shelves display standard BB albums. Not that exciting if you're faking it. "Pet Sounds - Alternate Mix" or "Smile - Rough Assemblies" or something would be far more tantalizing.

One could even explain most of the other live tapes by assuming these fans recorded stuff off the radio (e.g. "Summer Concert").

For that matter, even if these tapes are all "fan" tapes, I'd love to hear a soundboard recording of a 1974 gig from St. Paul!  :lol

the upper rack seems to be straight LP releases.  there're two concert ones and i'll assume one is live in London.  strange stack-o-tracks isn't represented there

the lower rack has the weirder titling i.e., one tape is add some music but there's another called sunflower (we know the historic reason for this).  but I maintain it doesn't have to make sense, a fan is just goofing around and creating intriguing though ultimately false tape appearances, having seen as I say a photo of the real mc-coy containing numerous odd (to us) titlings (among the familiar) a knowledgeable fan could guess at

Strange that, while that old 13-page thread was from 2011, randomly in 2015 a new user named "PaulBramsen" posted what would seem to go a long way towards explaining the whole thing (claimed to be from St. Paul and knew a Bob Rolle, etc.), but inexplicably this post went virtually ignored by the board (barring one reply), and there was of course no follow-up:

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,10132.msg491832.html#msg491832

Obviously, it would be very easy for this poster to be bogus, but I'm surprised nobody responded to either follow up on it or call the guy on being bogus if that was the case. Strange.

If you look on the right of the picture you can see a termomether... maybe to keep the correct temperature. If this is a fan made we are talking about serious stuff... i really don’t know what to think about it but I like wondering somewhere this shelf really exist with legit tapes that have not surfaced yet.

I also was wondering, where does a bootleg come from? Think about the notorious sea of tunes series.. those tracks were taken from original master or something very close to the originals, maybe copies that could be stored in a shelf like this one... who knows

The thermometer may be for keeping the temperature if it is indeed a fan-made setup. But as was pointed out in that old thread, it seems like a cheapo thermometer that doesn't indicate a pro setup (and it's debatable whether a legit tape room would have been kept strictly temperature controlled in the early-mid 70s).

Any relation to the SOT material was pretty roundly debunked in that old thread. The pic shows mostly released albums, and shows little to nothing that surfaced on the SOT discs. Also, as indicated in that old thread, the theory is that the SOT material was not copied via open reel analog tape, but rather another format, and was probably done later than the early-mid 70s.

I think that old thread generally seemed to indicate that if we assume this set up is a fan-made thing, it wasn't intended as a "hoax" as such, because I think a hoax meant to keep fan mouths watering would have not depicted mostly stock run of the mill albums with only a smattering of potential "outtakes."

This should be Capitol vault BB section https://twitter.com/GeorgErgatoudis/status/452841662679486464/photo/1

Ah, my favorite topic :)

... after much debate (mainly with myself), my best guess is that this was some kind of "safety of safety" copies archive, stored privately (legit like someone's basement or something), dating from some time in 1973. Even though all of the pieces of the puzzle don't quite add up, the main elements that made me come to that conclusion are the  tapes that appear to be related to the "In Concert" album-in-progress.

Another factor is the "Bellagio" label -- sounds kinda insider-ish for circa '73. And since the original Polaroid was in Ed Roach's possession, its likely an old picture.

My questions:

Do we know this picture was actually in Ed Roach's collection? Or did he simply repost something?

How do we know it's a Polaroid? The picture has more detail than most Polaroid snaps I've seen.

Ed Roach describes the circumstances across several posts in  this old thread:

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,10132.0.html

He says it's a Polaroid, and that he didn't take the pic but it's from his collection. He also says it comes from years and years ago.

I like the "safety of safety" theory!
The tape near "Brian/Dumb Angel" should be "Wouldn't it be nice", but I' can't decode the one near LDC.

Btw I found some interesting tapes images on internet, fyi:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cb8JP30WEAEddzk.jpg
https://i2.wp.com/www.laneuronaatenta.com.ar/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/cinta-master-here-today-pet-sounds-the-beach-boys.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cm9FG1tVUAE59sw.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cm9FlKnVUAEHB7E.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cm9EtB5UsAAFawF.jpg

One of the possible giveaways that it could be just some sort of superfan is the "Spring" tape.

Would there be any reason for BRI (or associated BB labels, Warner/Reprise or later CBS, or Capitol, etc.) to have a second or third generation backup safety master for the 1972 "Spring" album? Yes, obviously Brian was involved in the album. But it was done on the dime of another label, nothing to do with Brother as far as I know. BRI *shouldn't* be housing any masters for an album owned by another label. Obviously, it's not a super-duper stretch to imagine Brian having a master that got thrown in the BRI vault at some point. But housing a backup of "Spring" directly alongside BB album masters, that *does* scream "superfan" more than anything else.

There's also the matter of why any professional people working for the group would back all the albums up onto 1/2 inch tape. That doesn't make much sense. That would usually be done on 1/4 inch tape. Nothing on those shelves appears to possibly be a multitrack tape, and the band wasn't recording onto 1/2 inch tape for stuff like "Holland" and "Sunflower" anyway.

There's also no way to avoid that the edge of the photo depicting *commercially released* open reel tapes of albums indicates it's a fan more likely than an official tape archive. Again, it isn't impossible that any given pro vault would have all sorts of weird stuff floating around on the shelves. But I'm curious how often any people going through Capitol or BRI tape vaults have run across open reel tapes of random albums from the 60s and 70s purchased at Tower Records. Doesn't make a lot of sense.

it's rather faint but on there is a label for the aforementioned Bob Rolle as 'Robert D. Rolle'

Folks tried sleuthing out Rolle and Bramsen back when the previous thread was going. The plaques with the names were some of the main points of discussion. Certainly seems more likely this is just a bunch of dudes years ago in Minnesota.

What's nuts is that this picture has been talked about on the board for at least 10 years at this point, and we still don't have a clear idea about the circumstances behind or origin of the photo. We have good theories, but nothing close to ironclad proof.

I mentioned this earlier in the thread, but it blows my mind that after 13 pages of intense discussion in 2011, a guy calling himself "Paul Bramsen" posted in the thread in 2015 saying "oh yeah, I knew a guy named Bob Rolle in St. Paul and we dealt with sound systems", and it went almost entirely ignored!

What was going on in very early 2015 that nobody saw this? I include myself as well, although the 2011 thread took place at a time when I wasn't on the board often.

There is a Robert Rolle from St. Paul Minnesota on Facebook.. who is interested in "Sony MDR-V6 Studio Monitor Headphone"...
He looks 70s or something...

This is quite interesting!

PS. We need to hire Robert Langdon to investigate!! :D

As I mentioned before, even if these are 100% nerd hobbyist collectors/fans, if they actually did work in the area and can find a guy who has a soundboard recording of a 1974 St Paul gig, that could be pretty cool to hear!

there's about as much authenticity in this so-called reel session tape storage rack as Bruce Johnston's old remark about a beach boys album called The Fading Rock Group Revival

in other words a fan who kept 10-1/2" dia. reel tapes of beach boys albums decided to store them in a faux BRI session multi replica as a gag, pulling our legs with that photo a bit like bruce did with that goofy comment

mr. desper might bear me out in that the boxes there for those 10-1/2" dia. reels probably contain not the 1/2" width tape as I originally thought, but the much more consumer standard 1/4" width tape (with a pad piece for filler), my x-ray BS detector sniffs this out

If the photo is from the early-mid 70s, while the "enthusiastic fan" theory makes some sense (or, slightly alternatively, the "trying to impress their friends" fan theory), a full-on purposeful "hoax" theory doesn't. Pre-internet, what would be the audience for a hoax? The person you show photos to?

The picture looks too elaborate for just a fan who wants to make tape backups for themselves. But it's also not elaborate enough to easily pass a sniff test for being legit, nor really elaborate or detailed enough to simply pass as *the* BRI archive if all they're looking to do is a replica/shrine sort of thing. Again, a hoax would almost surely involve more tantalizing fake tape labels than predominantly album master backups.

"Wow, a 1/2 inch third generation backup copy of "Shut Down Vol. 2? Who needs Smile outtakes?"

I don't think anyone can say with any certainty exactly what (if anything) is inside those tape boxes. Every scenario has pros and cons.

1/4 inch tapes inside 1/2 inch boxes? Where did they get that many empty 1/2 inch boxes then?

Empty boxes? Maybe, but it doesn't match up with the idea that it's a hobbyist making back up tapes for their own amusement. And certainly it strains credulity even more to think a non-hobbyist would somehow track down a bunch of empty 1/2 inch tape boxes.

Actual 1/2 inch tapes in the boxes? Maybe the simplest answer is the best. But it's also a weird format for a consumer (or even a higher end hobbyist) to make backup copies with.

If the thing is a hoax, it would have to be targeted at a very small, select group of knowledgeable fans who would care in the first place, and such fans would then also potentially be aware of the weird discrepancies (mixed down masters being on 1/2 inch, etc.)

One more expanded, likely totally off, theory based on previous theories and my own thoughts:

BB fan in St. Paul area wants an elaborate and high-end (for circa 1974) sound system, and pays Rolle and Bramsen to make him an epic sound rig. This would presumably be a big BB fan, and someone with a lot of disposable income to burn on such a project, and maybe someone with a slight eccentric style and/or ego such that he'd pay guys to do this for him and then order up little plaques naming the guys who did the rig and also thanking the focus of this rig/shrine (The Beach Boys, "especially Brian").

Rolle and/or Bramsen are very much semi-pro guys, somewhere in between fan/hobbyist and pro. One or both of them maybe work in the radio industry and/or a studio. They end up rigging up for their "client" a weird hybrid set up of BB albums dubbed onto open reel tapes (maybe they forward the idea that open reel tapes will sound better than vinyl, and there aren't good commercially-released tapes of all the BB albums), and set him up with weirdly some sort of twin-track (stereo) 1/2 inch deck (and/or a twin-track 1/4 inch deck). Maybe Rolle or Bramsen worked a local BB gig and have a tape of that, and add that to the stash.

This doesn't even explain everything, such as the "Bellagio" stuff or "Add Some Music" or "Vegetables" or other weird labels. It also doesn't address the alleged "PaulBramsen" who posted here who implied the person who bought this elaborate rig was "a friend of the BB." While obviously that whole post may be bogus, if it has any veracity, then that raises a bunch of other questions. What "friend of the band" lived in St. Paul in the 70s? Did this fan have access to some of the few "rare" items that were allegedly on the shelf (keeping mind little was booted back that early, especially Smile stuff).

So to summarize, we have four basic theories so far:

1. Hoax
2. Superfan Shrine/tape library
3. Legit Safety Copies
4. Audio/Soundsystem Setup

Before I dig into my opinions on each one, I'd like to establish a few things:

* I've concluded the photo is from 1973 for a few reasons. Regardless of how the events that created this photo came together, every single released record by the group from Surfer Girl through Holland is shown in the photo. Whether hoax, superfan, sound system, or legit copies ... surely the "In Concert" album (and the albums that followed if applicable) would have been included.

Additionally, there are something like 50 white-box Scotch reels pictured ... these reels date from late '60s-early '70s and Scotch switched to different style boxes by the mid-'70s.

Further, the Polaroid comes from Ed Roach so we know it dates back to the pre-internet era at least. All of this leads me to comfortably say this photo must be from 1973.

* I'm going to go through each box in the photo and attempt to identify what they appear to be (all appear to be 10.5" reels, some are 1/2" and some are 1/4"):

TOP SHELF -
1. CONCERT LA/NY -  1/4" reel
2. HOLLAND - 1/4" reel, possibly minus fairytale?
3. SO TUFF - 1/4" reel,
4. SURF'S UP -  1/4" reel
5. SUNFLOWER - 1/4" reel
6. 20/20 - 1/4" reel
7. FRIENDS - 1/4" reel
8. WILD HONEY - 1/4" reel
9. SMILEY SMILE - 1/4" reel
10. PET SOUNDS - 1/4" reel, Duophonic version?
11. PARTY - 1/4" reel
12. SUMMER DAYS - 1/4" reel
13. TODAY - 1/4" reel
14. CHRISTMAS - 1/4" reel
15. ALL SUMMER LONG - 1/4" reel
16. SHUT DOWN VOL II - 1/4" reel
17. CONCERT - 1/4" reel
18. LITTLE DEUCE COUPE - 1/4" reel
19. SURFER GIRL(?) - 1/4" reel
presumably SURFIN USA and SURFIN SAFARI are in there but out of view

BOTTOM SHELF -
1. ADD SOME MUSIC TO YOUR DAY - 1/4" reel, unknown
2. LONDON - 1/4" reel, LIVE IN LONDON album
3. TRACKS - 1/4" reel, STACK-O-TRACKS album
4. PET SOUNDS - MONO -1/4" reel, mono version
5. SPRING - 1/4" reel
6. BELLIAGO / HOLLAND - 1/2" reel
7. VEGETABLES - 1/2" reel
8. SUMMER CONCERT - 1/2" reel
9. SURF'S UP - 1/2" reel
10. SUNFLOWER - 1/2" reel
11. REMOTE ST. PAUL - 1/4" reel
12. MISC BEACH BOY MATERIAL - 1/4" reel, single-only tracks, B-sides, etc?
13. BRIAN - 1/4" reel, ??? outside productions? who knows
14. BRIAN / DUMB ANGEL - 1/4" reel, S M I L E comp?
15. WOULDN'T IT BE NICE - 1/4' reel?

To summarize, we have what appears to be a complete archive of Beach Boys released albums on 10.5" 2-track 1/4" reels from SURFIN SAFARI to HOLLAND, plus SPRING.

We also have 1/2" tapes for all of the Brother-era albums (coinciding with the period in which the group began retaining physical ownership of their own mulit-tracks and masters), except SO TOUGH, and along with tapes labeled VEGETABLES and SUMMER CONCERT.

We also see a single tape for individual songs "Add Some Music" and "Wouldn't It Be Nice". Interestingly, these are both songs that we know multiple mixes were made of.

Additionally, we see two concert tapes (REMOTE ST PAUL and CONCERT LA/NYC), two possible comps (MISC BEACH BOY MATERIAL and BRIAN), along with a SMILE comp.

-

Let's consider each theory:

1. HOAX -

I don't see this being an elaborate hoax for the reasons HeyJude pointed out above. Being that I believe it to be an authentic photo from 1973, this would be a crazy and expensive thing to do for a Polaroid opp. It's possible, but would have been done by a very organized crazy person.

-

2. SUPERFAN TAPE LIBRARY -

I'm open to the superfan theory. This would make sense because all of the officially released albums are there, organized in order and looks similar to how a record collection might be organized.

This would have to be a super audiophile/recording/radio industry type for sure though. 1/2

But some of the tapes look pretty weird for a fan ("VEGETABLES" 4-track?).

How many fans at that time knew that Mt Vernon was Mike's childhood home? I ask because I believe there's a mistake on what appears to be a 1/2" reel for Holland: "BELLAGIO/HOLLAND" -- whoever was labeling the tapes might have mixed up the streets (Brian's vs Mike's ... i.e., it should say "MT VERNON/HOLLAND"). Was this info in the '71 Rolling Stone article?

How many regular folks would have a 1/2" recorder in 1973? The answer is very few. By the early '70s, 1/2" was used for 4-track tape dupe masters, private "demo"/cheap studios, and quad masters.

-

3. LEGIT SAFETY COPIES -

I don't believe the presence of the SPRING album suggests any particular theory being more likely. If this is a legit archive, it is not for Capitol or Warners, it's for BRI and BRI would have been in possession of the tapes for this record at some point (or could have leased it to make a copy).

Elements supporting this theory:

* Concert LA/NYC is exactly in chronological order where IN CONCERT would be, but why is it labeled this way? This would make sense if the album was still in-progess. Possibly a safety copy of the original single LP IN CONCERT album that was shelved.

* The presence of 1/2" tapes. My best theory here is that these were some kind of quad experiments for the Brother albums (and "Vegetables" for some reason).

* "BELLAGIO"

Some tapes may have been included that someone in the group (Carl?) or working for the group deemed important, aside from the released material.

Things that don't add up: If these were real safety masters, you'd have two tapes for each album (side one and side two). For some kind of "backup of a backup" archive, I suppose it's possible that they used 1.0 mil tape and combined the two sides onto one tape. The only album this would not work with is Holland (including Fairy Tale -- it runs more than the approx 45 minutes you'd get on one 10.5" 1.0 mil reel at 15 ips).

-

4. AUDIO/SOUND SYSTEM SETUP

I think this is plausible. The plaques sort of support it.

If this photograph does indeed show a collection or archive of Beach Boy safety-copies of some guy named Paul Bramsen who lived, or still lives, in St. Paul, Minnesota; is there any way of finding out if this person still owns this physical collection of tapes at his place?

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/so-much-gear-so-little-time/593569-paul-bramsem-70s-engineer.html

Has anyone actually emailed the guy?

paulbramsen48@outlook.com

(From his SS profile)

Don't think that poster was real (Paul BramseM)

I would wager that all this post shows is that Mark is a member of this message board.  Also, that he's as curious as the rest of us.

I shot off an email yesterday to the person who posted as Paul Bramsen. They replied mostly reiterating what they mentioned in their one post here. I'll follow up and see if there are any other details they might be able to share.

But based on the info they've shared, if it is to be believed, the pic is of a fan's setup from the 70s.

The poster was a fake. The name on the plaque is Paul BramseM, the poster's username is PaulBramseN ... presumably, the guy would know how to spell his own name :)

Or the guy who bought the stuff misspelled the guy's name when he made the plaques. In this theory, he also misspelled Bellagio as "Belliago" and Tough as "Tuff."

It is perhaps meaningful to note that in this photograph; the only reels that seem unrelated to any released Beach Boys album are coloured white; i.e "Dumb Angel", "Remote | St. Paul", "| Brian |"; and that these reels are organized together at the very brink of the shelf; kept away from the original Beach Boy releases...

I theorize that this was the work of a passionate fan who worked as a sound-engineer in the area, and therefore had some connections or acquaintances with The Beach Boys' accolades and/or distributors, you know, from being an obsessive with resources to give because of his sound-engineering abilities. Most of the tapes on the shelfs could be that of released-products; perhaps recordings from vinyl-record sources of those products, while those at the end of the bookshelf are 'special', in the sense they have found their way from insiders; perhaps Brian himself, to this man's archive; as a sort of 'token-of-appreciation', if you will. This sounds ridiculous, and I am reluctant to conclude such, but we do know for a fact the amount of missing tapes; masters, session-reels, compilation-reels, even missing overdub-reels that The Beach Boys have been incurred throughout their recording-career; and the fact that Mark Linnett is perhaps as curious of the possibilities as we are, we need to take this seriously.

Until today I've never seen the rack of tapes photo. Without revealing  the identity of the super fan and acquaintance of Brian, Carl, Mike and Al, I can definitely affirm that the owner knew the boys very well. Besides playing golf and socializing with him, I sold the fan his basement Tascam pro-audio "toys" while I was in sales etc. for Audio King in Edina Minnesota.  A special patch bay for the gear was also built by an AK specialist. Mr. Rolle was an outside contractor for AK and sold him various McIntosh electronics along with Altec VOTT and a Revox deck, I believe. I can not divulge the name of the fan as he hasn't responded to phone messages left for him. We have common friends who have also recommended that he remain anonymous. I know that this doesn't help in the discovery mode. But if the situation changes in the future for any reason, I will post again.

Thanks for posting Paul. Can you give us any information about the Brian Dumb Angel reel?

I think this is a big step forward for our research, thanks!

More indication that this is just a fan. Really the only detail left to pursue is whether there's anything of interest on the small number of intriguingly-titled tapes.

Some of this would be answered if we knew a precise date, because I would tend to doubt *anybody* would have Smile outtakes in their collection in 1973.

It would be nice if someone could track this "fan" down and just ask about those tapes. No names needed.

And once again, even if the guy has nothing of interest but one single 1974 St. Paul soundboard tape, that would be cool to hear!

My best guess: It's a fan, and the St. Paul tape is probably the only thing (along with perhaps the one or two other live tapes) that might be of interest in 2017. I'm guessing the other stuff is essentially very elaborate forms of the "fan mix tape." If the pic comes from the very late 70s or early 80s (and let us remember that the "work" done for this guy could have been done in the early-mid 70s, but this pic could still be from late 70s or very early 80s), then stuff like the "Dumb Angel" tape could just be a dub of the earliest "Smile" boots.

Obviously, it's easy to assume this pic comes from 1974 or 75 at the latest as it doesn't have stuff from 15BO or later. But who knows? The later 70s stuff might be on another shelf. Or maybe the guy just stopped dubbing stuff after that.

Maybe at this point it might be easier to track down Mike or Al and ask them if they remember a friend/fan from the St. Paul area who might have somehow procured a few rare tapes.

I reached out again to the owner of the tapes etc., this morning. He was in France and is returning next week and said he'll call me when he returns.  :spin

Thanks Paul.

While respecting your friends anonymity, you did mention he new members of the group very well. As Audree came from the area, should we consider a relation?

1. Didn't Brian supposedly record some country album in the early 70's? He was asked to or something? Ok that may be false but I definitely read it somewhere. Could "Dumb Angel" be this country album?

2. Isn't it possible for a superfan, not to get tapes, but to know the Beach Boys? Aren't a couple of superfans responsible for getting Landy out of Brian's life? May not be true, but I read that on the sometimes-true website called Wikipedia.

Sorry if I'm stating the obvious,  but Dumb Angel was the original title of Smile. From your above statement I wasn't sure if you knew this.  :)

If you did then I'm not sure if the logic here. Why would a superfan call the country album Dumb Angel?

Isn't it more likely the superfan is showing off their knowledge by giving Smile it's original title?

In BB history "Dumb Angel" is considered the inital title for the SMiLE album, so I don't think it's a new project for a country album, that album should have been "Cows in the pasture" which was abandoned by Brian in early 70s.

Vale and Hickory Violet,

I am very new to the board and am just getting into deep tracks and "deep facts." I had no idea of the Dumb Angel-Smile connection. Thanks for the info!

You're welcome! I'm getting into "deep facts" too! :)

That's fine.  Brush up on your Smile facts and you may win a bronze statuette.

Or, wait for it, a reel containing 30 minutes more of Brian Wilson and Hal Blaine's "Vegetable Arguments."

*BUMP*. Mr. Bramsen, have you contacted the alleged owner of the tapes in the photograph for any comments regarding the issue?

Mr. Bramsen, have you got back to the photographer and perhaps owner of those tapes shown in the picture that’s been discussed on this thread?

Have you gotten back to him yet, Mr. Bramsen?

I'm confident!  :)

The holy grail IMO would be the database. Every tape name, track sheet, and notation are in the archive database. Access to that would be endlessly fascinating.