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Smiley Smile Stuff => General On Topic Discussions => Topic started by: Stephen W. Desper on June 18, 2017, 06:47:36 AM



Title: Monterey Pop Festival
Post by: Stephen W. Desper on June 18, 2017, 06:47:36 AM
COMMENT:

As most of you know, I was the chief Engineer and Mixer for the 1967 three day event called "The Monterey Pop Festival."  According to my calculations, at around 11 PM last night (taking into account time shifts between California and Florida), fifty years ago I was on stage with either The Who, The Grateful Dead, or Jimmy Hendrix, asking what they wanted to hear on the stage monitors, before going back to the board to mix their set.

The middle of July (next month) I have been ask to join Professor Mike Conner to give a lecture on that event at Full Sail University. Professor Conner, who teaches there, will cover the music aspect and I'll speak to the technical challenges and experiences of those days. Full Sail University is located in the Orlando, Florida area. If any of you who live in that area might wish to attend, I think something can be arranged if you contact me using the Smiley Smile personal contact feature (click on my name).

WoW!  Fifty years ago -- seems like last week.  What a difference in sound reinforcement between then and now . . . so I may be older today, but I got to hear all the great bands live!!   

Good Listening,
   ~Stephen W. Desper


Title: Re: Monterey Pop Festival
Post by: Lee Marshall on June 18, 2017, 07:10:06 AM
You helped pave the way Stephen.  Were you there because it was felt, at least at one point, that the 'Boys' would perform at Monterey?  Or were you going to be there doing your [key] 'thing' anyway?


Title: Re: Monterey Pop Festival
Post by: Stephen W. Desper on June 18, 2017, 08:28:33 AM
You helped pave the way Stephen.  Were you there because it was felt, at least at one point, that the 'Boys' would perform at Monterey?  Or were you going to be there doing your [key] 'thing' anyway?

COMMENT to Add Some:  The Beach Boys were slated to perform, but pulled out at the last minute due to Carl's pending draft questions, the Smile album was just aborted, Brian was depressed, and Mike did not wish to support the show because (sugar lased) Coke-a-cola was a sponsor. Along with the BB contract was the stipulation that their advanced (for the day) sound system be used as the main source of mixing and amplification, helped by several other sound companies supplying equipment to cover the entire festival field. The group did not show, but their equipment was necessary if the show was to continue. It was my job to setup the sound and mix the acts. That obligation continued and I lucked out, big time. ~swd


Title: Re: Monterey Pop Festival
Post by: guitarfool2002 on June 18, 2017, 09:42:44 AM
Stephen, that sounds like a great lecture and I wish I could attend! Any chance of it being recorded and/or streamed so people who cannot be there can listen?

Not asking you to give away any topics you'll be discussing in July, but I had a few questions specific to the festival which I'd like to ask.

I've heard Paul Beaver had some kind of demonstration booth or something similar set up to showcase and demonstrate the Moog modular synth, as he was one of the Moog reps for the west coast. What I heard is that Monterey was where Micky Dolenz was introduced to the Moog and eventually bought one of the first three commercially available units sold by Moog through Paul, which he used on the Monkees album "Pisces Aquarius..." and which also featured Paul playing that Moog modular. I remember you wrote about attending Paul's lectures or study groups on music synthesis, but did you already know Paul by the time of the festival? Do you remember seeing him there or anything about Paul's setup for Moog at Monterey or how all that was done at the festival?

In the Maysles brothers documentary, there is a famous but brief clip of Wally Heider going on stage to grab the microphones (rescue them? lol ) as The Who were destroying their instruments. Was any of the Beach Boys' equipment damaged in that melee, and what was the mood among the engineers and sound crew as The Who were trashing the stage? I've always wondered if the crew had advance knowledge that The Who was going to do their destruction routine, if precautions were taken in advance, and how Wally's mood was after having to save that gear from being trashed.



Title: Re: Monterey Pop Festival
Post by: Stephen W. Desper on June 18, 2017, 11:08:54 AM
COMMENT TO GUITARFOOL2002
Stephen, that sounds like a great lecture and I wish I could attend! Any chance of it being recorded and/or streamed so people who cannot be there can listen?
Haven't thought about it, but will look into the matter. The lecture would, I suppose, be owned by or under the control of the university . . . but will see about your request.

Not asking you to give away any topics you'll be discussing in July, but I had a few questions specific to the festival which I'd like to ask.

I've heard Paul Beaver had some kind of demonstration booth or something similar set up to showcase and demonstrate the Moog modular synth, as he was one (He was the ONLY one) of the Moog reps for the west coast. What I heard is that Monterey was where Micky Dolenz was introduced to the Moog and eventually bought one of the first three commercially available units sold by Moog through Paul, which he used on the Monkees album "Pisces Aquarius..." and which also featured Paul playing that Moog modular. I remember you wrote about attending Paul's lectures or study groups on music synthesis, but did you already know Paul by the time of the festival?

I knew Paul early on, he was a good friend and my synthesizer mentor. The festival covered the Monterey County Fair grounds and had in attendance from 50,000 to 100.000 people. His booth was out there somewhere. He told me he would be there, but I was too busy at the stage to go find him. Do you remember seeing him there or anything about Paul's setup for Moog at Monterey or how all that was done at the festival?
No.

In the Maysles brothers documentary, there is a famous but brief clip of Wally Heider going on stage to grab the microphones (rescue them? lol ) as The Who were destroying their instruments. Was any of the Beach Boys' equipment damaged in that melee, and what was the mood among the engineers and sound crew as The Who were trashing the stage?
No advance warning or word of the pending... I didn't think they would given the venue, but not a good guess.  I've always wondered if the crew had advance knowledge that The Who was going to do their destruction routine, if precautions were taken in advance, and how Wally's mood was after having to save that gear from being trashed?
Of course Wally and I knew each other through session work with the guys.
As we were setting up the day before opening, the Wally Hider sound truck showed up and parked behind stage. They were contracted to record the show for later mixing to film. The way this works is that all the microphone feeds from the stage go into a "splitter box" , usually using transformers for complete isolation of one split to the other. No common ground to make a hum. So the crew ran 16 mic lines back to their sound truck where two 16 track recorders would record each microphone pickup. The 16 raw tracks would later be mixed into stereo and 5.1. Two machines used to lip-frog each other for a continuous recording -- none stop. The other split whet to my console and the sound reinforcement system. PA and recording did not have any effect on the other. A file crew had the rights to film the show using a new camera technique that freed the camera of sync lines to sound recorders. Thus, several cameras were filming the show and others were out and about at the festival, but all were in sync to the stage sound. You can buy the DVD now. So I'm mixing and about twenty feet from the stage with crowds of people between me and the stage antics. -- the last night was so jammed that the seats were folded up and removed so that it was all "standing room only." -- There was no way I could "rescue my stuff, and it was all Beach Boy equipment, not Hyder's. But I could see what was going on. Using the festival telephone system (no cells then) I got hold of Wally who was minding recorders in the Truck. I ask him if he could get to the stage since he was parked at stage back. He could and rushed on stage to grab the obvious.

Hope that answers everything.
 
~swd



Title: Re: Monterey Pop Festival
Post by: CenturyDeprived on June 18, 2017, 11:20:44 AM
Hi Stephen,

Thanks so much for all of the recollections.

By any chance do you recall a band called Teddy and His Patches (from the San Jose area) performing at some sort of second stage portion of Monterey Pop? My coworker's dad was a member of that band (they had one minor hit that's now on the Rhino Nuggets box, called "Suzy Creamcheese"), and he has a vague memory of performing in some capacity connected to the Monterey Pop show, but it was definitely not any sort of main stage event.


Title: Re: Monterey Pop Festival
Post by: Stephen W. Desper on June 18, 2017, 12:07:35 PM
Hi Stephen,

Thanks so much for all of the recollections.

By any chance do you recall a band called Teddy and His Patches (from the San Jose area) performing at some sort of second stage portion of Monterey Pop? My coworker's dad was a member of that band (they had one minor hit that's now on the Rhino Nuggets box, called "Suzy Creamcheese"), and he has a vague memory of performing in some capacity connected to the Monterey Pop show, but it was definitely not any sort of main stage event.
COMMENT to CenturyDeprived:  I was at the Main Stage only. As I said, it was a big event calling in the services of several sound companies, some adding to the Main Stage coverage and some at secondary stages further away from the Main Stage. ~swd


Title: Re: Monterey Pop Festival
Post by: guitarfool2002 on June 18, 2017, 12:43:10 PM
Thank you Stephen, yes it answers and clarifies things! It also makes me hope even more that your lecture will somehow be made available for people to access and hear who can't be there in person.

I think it will be very educational for people to hear firsthand how all of this happened. For one, I think due to Wally's appearance in the film and some candid photos of his crew at the festival, there may be an assumption that Wally and his team were doing all the sound. But you clarified above how it really happened and how you were mixing as Wally was recording the feeds, and I'm sure your lecture will shed even more light on the ins and outs of mixing that show.

I was always curious if Paul Beaver had a setup somewhere backstage where only the musicians were, or if he had a booth or something set up on the festival grounds, and wondering if he had a prototype of the modular synth there to demo, how all that could work, etc. Obviously you had your hands full, and I can't imagine Paul having to deal with all the attendees if he did have a demo booth running in the public area with that kind of instrument. Whatever he did he made a sale that day, and both he and the Moog he sold ended up on a top-5 album that fall!

Coca-Cola's slogan and jingle in '67 was "things go better with Coca-Cola, things go better with Coke!". Seems like Coca-Cola didn't go too well with Mike, though... ;D

Thanks again for the info!


Title: Re: Monterey Pop Festival
Post by: MikestheGreatest!! on June 18, 2017, 01:23:15 PM
Wow, Mike's stance against sugar consumption was very progressive, way ahead of the times.  He was a food nazi before food nazi's were cool...


Title: Re: Monterey Pop Festival
Post by: SMiLE Brian on June 18, 2017, 01:36:19 PM
Nah, just short sighted as usual on the popular culture scene.....


Title: Re: Monterey Pop Festival
Post by: CenturyDeprived on June 18, 2017, 04:09:31 PM
Wow, Mike's stance against sugar consumption was very progressive, way ahead of the times.  He was a food nazi before food nazi's were cool...

 But then, under Mike's direction, the band did a tie-in with Sunkist in the 1980s...

 I tend to think that the Coca-Cola thing was just an excuse, and not any kind of real reason.


Title: Re: Monterey Pop Festival
Post by: Stephen W. Desper on June 18, 2017, 05:03:45 PM
Wow, Mike's stance against sugar consumption was very progressive, way ahead of the times.  He was a food nazi before food nazi's were cool...

 But then, under Mike's direction, the band did a tie-in with Sunkist in the 1980s...

 I tend to think that the Coca-Cola thing was just an excuse, and not any kind of real reason.

COMMENT to CenturyDeprived:  It was one of several reasons. At the time Mike was very much into health food eating, macrobiotics, and a low-carb diet. It was easy for him to charm-in with this excuse because he believed in it.  Opting out of Monterey was a bad decision the group made around this time.  It hurt their popularity and brought down their celebrity.  ~swd


Title: Re: Monterey Pop Festival
Post by: Custom Machine on June 18, 2017, 05:37:22 PM
Thank you so much, Stephen, for this interesting historical info. (Since I was around back then as well, but unfortunately not at the festival, I too have a hard time believing it's been fifty years.)

I would like to echo GF's comment that it would be great if your lecture with Professor Mike Conner at Full Sail University could be recorded or streamed for those of us who cannot be there. Plus recording the lecture would make it an important addition to the historical record.

I have a question about which Beach Boys were slated to appear at Monterey. Since the concert was to be recorded, was Brian planing to perform, as he did a couple of months later in Honolulu? If so, would Bruce have been there as well? Or would it have been the regular touring Beach Boys sans Brian and with Bruce?


Title: Re: Monterey Pop Festival
Post by: SMiLE Brian on June 18, 2017, 05:40:09 PM
An online viewing of th lecture would be most interesting.... 8)


Title: Re: Monterey Pop Festival
Post by: The LEGENDARY OSD on June 18, 2017, 05:51:13 PM
Wow, Mike's stance against sugar consumption was very progressive, way ahead of the times.  He was a food nazi before food nazi's were cool...

 But then, under Mike's direction, the band did a tie-in with Sunkist in the 1980s...

 I tend to think that the Coca-Cola thing was just an excuse, and not any kind of real reason.

COMMENT to CenturyDeprived:  It was one of several reasons. At the time Mike was very much into health food eating, macrobiotics, and a low-carb diet. It was easy for him to charm-in with this excuse because he believed in it.  Opting out of Monterey was a bad decision the group made around this time.  It hurt their popularity and brought down their celebrity.  ~swd

So, was it in fact was it the lovester's decision alone that kept them out of the festival? And could it be that he didn't want to be associated with the ones who did perform?


Title: Re: Monterey Pop Festival
Post by: c-man on June 18, 2017, 06:19:33 PM
It's been said that another reason for their pull-out was that Brian was afraid the group would be laughed at, with their striped shirts and clean-cut image. Any truth to that, Stephen?


Title: Re: Monterey Pop Festival
Post by: Lee Marshall on June 18, 2017, 07:48:59 PM
Does anyone remember WHO sang lead on this one... ... ...


Ooo wah
Ooo wah

Everytime I have a date there's only one place to go
That's to the drive in
It's such a groovy place to talk and maybe watch a show
Down at the drive in

Forget about the plot, it'll do very well
But make sure you see enough so you're prepared to tell
About the drive in
(Ooo wah)
I love the drive in
(We love the drive in, we love the drive in)

If the windows get fogged you'll have to take a breath
(Oooooooo waah oooo)
Down at the drive in
(Wah wah ooooooo)
Or the cat dressed in white will scare you both to death
Down at the drive in

A big buttered popcorn and an extra large coke
A few chili dogs and man I'm goin' broke
Down at the drive in
(Ooo wah)
Yeah at the drive in
(We love the drive in, we love the drive in)


Don't sneak your buddies in the trunk 'cause they might get caught
By the drive in
(Wah wah wah ooooooo)
And they'd look kinda stupid gettin' chased through the lot
(Wah ooooooo)
Around the drive in

If you say you watch the movie you're a couple o' liars
And "Remember only you can prevent forest fires"
Down at the drive in
(Ooo wah)
I love the drive in
(We love the drive in, we love the drive in)
Down at the drive in
(Ooo wah)
I love the drive in
(We love the drive in, we love the drive in)
Down at the drive in
(Ooo wah)
I don't love the drive in
(I used to love the drive in, I used to love the drive in 'til I figured out that Coke makes your hair fall out ooo wah-ooo wah)

Would the refusal to play Monterey due to Coke's involvement not then be construed as effin' with the formula which that same lead singer espoused just 3 years prior?  Sorry Stephen.  It almost laughable...'ceptin' of course for the hypocrisy.  Another one of those "What a SHAME!!!" moments.


Title: Re: Monterey Pop Festival
Post by: Bicyclerider on June 18, 2017, 09:19:06 PM
Stephen, a clarification please.  You mention 16 track recorders - wasn't 8 track still fairly new in 67 (EMI still only had 4 track for the Beatles!), and 16 track didn't come in until 68-69?  Or am I misunderstanding (or just misinformed)?


Title: Re: Monterey Pop Festival
Post by: Stephen W. Desper on June 18, 2017, 09:27:02 PM
Thank you so much, Stephen, for this interesting historical info. (Since I was around back then as well, but unfortunately not at the festival, I too have a hard time believing it's been fifty years.)

I would like to echo GF's comment that it would be great if your lecture with Professor Mike Conner at Full Sail University could be recorded or streamed for those of us who cannot be there. Plus recording the lecture would make it an important addition to the historical record.

I have a question about which Beach Boys were slated to appear at Monterey. Since the concert was to be recorded, was Brian planing to perform, as he did a couple of months later in Honolulu? If so, would Bruce have been there as well? Or would it have been the regular touring Beach Boys sans Brian and with Bruce?

COMMENT to Custom Machine:  Brian was on the Monterey Board of Advisers and was thought would be involved.  The entire band would have performed. ~swd


Title: Re: Monterey Pop Festival
Post by: Stephen W. Desper on June 18, 2017, 09:36:18 PM
Wow, Mike's stance against sugar consumption was very progressive, way ahead of the times.  He was a food nazi before food nazi's were cool...

 But then, under Mike's direction, the band did a tie-in with Sunkist in the 1980s...

 I tend to think that the Coca-Cola thing was just an excuse, and not any kind of real reason.
COMMENT to The LEGENDARY QSD
COMMENT to CenturyDeprived:  It was one of several reasons. At the time Mike was very much into health food eating, macrobiotics, and a low-carb diet. It was easy for him to charm-in with this excuse because he believed in it.  Opting out of Monterey was a bad decision the group made around this time.  It hurt their popularity and brought down their celebrity.  ~swd

So, was it in fact was it the lovester's decision alone that kept them out of the festival? And could it be that he didn't want to be associated with the ones who did perform?
COMMENT to The Legendary QSD:  Donovan, The Beatles, and others declined invitations also. Drugs, Complexity of Music, and the Draft kept some of the majors away. Mike associated with musicians of all types. I don't think that was a factor. ~swd


Title: Re: Monterey Pop Festival
Post by: Stephen W. Desper on June 18, 2017, 09:39:04 PM
It's been said that another reason for their pull-out was that Brian was afraid the group would be laughed at, with their striped shirts and clean-cut image. Any truth to that, Stephen?
COMMENT to c-man:  Yes.  ~swd


Title: Re: Monterey Pop Festival
Post by: Stephen W. Desper on June 18, 2017, 09:57:35 PM
Stephen, a clarification please.  You mention 16 track recorders - wasn't 8 track still fairly new in 67 (EMI still only had 4 track for the Beatles!), and 16 track didn't come in until 68-69?  Or am I misunderstanding (or just misinformed)?
COMMENT to Bicyclerider: The first Ampex 16-tracks were in use by New York studios in '67. Wally always had SOTA equipment. If it could be had, he would have had it. His sound truck was quite the ticket, but I did not go into the truck. However, I know they took more than eight mic lines, which is why I suspected in my recolection that he was using the latest machines  including Ampex 16-tks. ~swd


Title: Re: Monterey Pop Festival
Post by: Jim V. on June 18, 2017, 10:55:06 PM
Another interesting thing to me is that hasn't it been said by Bruce (and/or maybe Brian...or Al, I can't remember) that "Cool, Cool Water" was at some point considered for a Coca-Cola advertisement or commercial. Something like "it's the real thing, Coca-Cola" to the tune of "Cool, Cool Water" I guess. But regardless interesting that these two things probably occurred sometime near each other.

Not that any of this is surprising though. The Beach Boys are nearly always kinda confounding.


Title: Re: Monterey Pop Festival
Post by: BBs Footage Saga on June 19, 2017, 04:54:42 AM
Desper, Do you Remember part of the setlist intended?


Title: Re: Monterey Pop Festival
Post by: The LEGENDARY OSD on June 19, 2017, 06:51:25 AM
Wow, Mike's stance against sugar consumption was very progressive, way ahead of the times.  He was a food nazi before food nazi's were cool...

 But then, under Mike's direction, the band did a tie-in with Sunkist in the 1980s...

 I tend to think that the Coca-Cola thing was just an excuse, and not any kind of real reason.
COMMENT to The LEGENDARY QSD
COMMENT to CenturyDeprived:  It was one of several reasons. At the time Mike was very much into health food eating, macrobiotics, and a low-carb diet. It was easy for him to charm-in with this excuse because he believed in it.  Opting out of Monterey was a bad decision the group made around this time.  It hurt their popularity and brought down their celebrity.  ~swd

So, was it in fact was it the lovester's decision alone that kept them out of the festival? And could it be that he didn't want to be associated with the ones who did perform?
COMMENT to The Legendary QSD:  Donovan, The Beatles, and others declined invitations also. Drugs, Complexity of Music, and the Draft kept some of the majors away. Mike associated with musicians of all types. I don't think that was a factor. ~swd

Thanks for that info, Stephen. I was unaware that other big names had declined.


Title: Re: Monterey Pop Festival
Post by: guitarfool2002 on June 19, 2017, 07:10:48 AM
Donovan didn't decline voluntarily, he couldn't get a visa into the US to perform because of a prior drug arrest.


Title: Re: Monterey Pop Festival
Post by: cube_monkey on June 19, 2017, 11:58:07 AM
Did the Beach Boys get paid for renting out their PA? 
(Isle of Wight used the Who's PA...must of been a common thing)

thank you
Jay


Title: Re: Monterey Pop Festival
Post by: CenturyDeprived on June 19, 2017, 12:07:51 PM
Stephen, do you recall people at the festival asking or talking about The Beach Boys' non-appearance?

I would tend to assume that since you were (I'm guessing?) the closest Beach Boys associate/employee working the festival, that some behind-the-scenes people there might have expressed surprise and/or sadness at the band having dropped off the bill.



Title: Re: Monterey Pop Festival
Post by: yrplace on June 19, 2017, 02:07:46 PM
Stephen, a clarification please.  You mention 16 track recorders - wasn't 8 track still fairly new in 67 (EMI still only had 4 track for the Beatles!), and 16 track didn't come in until 68-69?  Or am I misunderstanding (or just misinformed)?
COMMENT to Bicyclerider: The first Ampex 16-tracks were in use by New York studios in '67. Wally always had SOTA equipment. If it could be had, he would have had it. His sound truck was quite the ticket, but I did not go into the truck. However, I know they took more than eight mic lines, which is why I suspected in my recolection that he was using the latest machines  including Ampex 16-tks. ~swd

I mixed the Hendrix set from Monterey many years ago and can confirm that it was recorded on 1" 8 track as were all the Heider remote stuff from that period. Not sure offhand when 16 track became available but think  it was a few years later .


Title: Re: Monterey Pop Festival
Post by: Stephen W. Desper on June 19, 2017, 02:36:46 PM
Desper, Do you Remember part of the setlist intended?

COMMENT to Beach Boys Collection: 

For the complete set list I refer you to this link >>>
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monterey_Pop_Festival_(set_list)

For information on bands that accepted and performed AND for bands that were invited but declined or no-shows, I refer you to this link >>>
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monterey_Pop_Festival


~swd


Title: Re: Monterey Pop Festival
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Murry the Friendly Ghost ♯♫♩🐇 on June 19, 2017, 02:50:27 PM
Desper, Do you Remember part of the setlist intended?

COMMENT to Beach Boys Collection: 

For the complete set list I refer you to this link >>>
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monterey_Pop_Festival_(set_list)

For information on bands that accepted and performed AND for bands that were invited but declined or no-shows, I refer you to this link >>>
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monterey_Pop_Festival


~swd

Stephen- I think he meant the full setlist the BB had planned to play had they played the show.


Title: Re: Monterey Pop Festival
Post by: Stephen W. Desper on June 19, 2017, 02:51:25 PM
Stephen, a clarification please.  You mention 16 track recorders - wasn't 8 track still fairly new in 67 (EMI still only had 4 track for the Beatles!), and 16 track didn't come in until 68-69?  Or am I misunderstanding (or just misinformed)?

COMMENT to Bicyclerider:   In doing further research, looks like I'm the one who is mis-informed.  Hyder is documented as recording the show using a couple of 8-track machines. One track was used for camera sync, so seven tracks for audio. That means he took the 16 mic lines (it could have been up to twenty, but I don't remember using the full compliment) and pre-mixed some inputs. For example, combining the kick with the snare or cymbals is a good combo since you can boost or cut each drum or cymbals using EQ without effecting the other -- thus maintaining control.  Perhaps he combined some rhythm guitars to one track -- and frankly, most groups use 3 guitar mics, maybe a keyboard, two BG vocals, one lead, bass, four mics for drums. Combine some of the drums and some of the rhythm guitars or BG's and you've still got control in a new mix from the seven audio channels.

At any rate, you caught my error and I stand corrected.
~swd

P.S.  I see Mark Linett is monitoring this thread, so maybe engineer Mark can shed some light as to how the tracks were combined.


Title: Re: Monterey Pop Festival
Post by: Stephen W. Desper on June 19, 2017, 02:56:00 PM
Desper, Do you Remember part of the setlist intended?

COMMENT to Beach Boys Collection: 

For the complete set list I refer you to this link >>>
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monterey_Pop_Festival_(set_list)

For information on bands that accepted and performed AND for bands that were invited but declined or no-shows, I refer you to this link >>>
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monterey_Pop_Festival


~swd

Stephen- I think he meant the full setlist the BB had planned to play had they played the show.

COMMENT to Beach Boy Collection:  Such a list was probably never made. The BB play lists were last minute creations, depending on how much time is available on stage, the mood and temper of the audience and what the guys felt like performing. With so many, many hits and popular songs to choose from, making a playlist was usually done right before showtime.  ~swd


Title: Re: Monterey Pop Festival
Post by: Stephen W. Desper on June 19, 2017, 03:05:01 PM
Did the Beach Boys get paid for renting out their PA? 
(Isle of Wight used the Who's PA...must of been a common thing)

thank you
Jay

COMMENT to Cube_Monkey:  I do not know, but Nick Grillo was manager then and knowing him, I would say yes.  All I know is that I got paid. ~swd


Title: Re: Monterey Pop Festival
Post by: Stephen W. Desper on June 19, 2017, 03:09:36 PM
Stephen, do you recall people at the festival asking or talking about The Beach Boys' non-appearance?

I would tend to assume that since you were (I'm guessing?) the closest Beach Boys associate/employee working the festival, that some behind-the-scenes people there might have expressed surprise and/or sadness at the band having dropped off the bill.
COMMENT to CenturyDeprived:  Not many people asked. Less than you would think. With so many other name groups on stage, the loss of Surfing music was little felt.  ~swd


Title: Re: Monterey Pop Festival
Post by: SMiLE Brian on June 19, 2017, 03:34:48 PM
Damn  :'(


Title: Re: Monterey Pop Festival
Post by: RP50 on June 21, 2017, 06:59:28 AM

It's been said that another reason for their pull-out was that Brian was afraid the group would be laughed at, with their striped shirts and clean-cut image. Any truth to that, Stephen?

COMMENT to c-man:  Yes.
Judging from the 'Lei'd In Hawaii' tapes, he was right. Although, I've always thought that if they'd played a set like they did  on the organ dominated,  in-studio  supposed 'rehearsals' for that gig, they would have come off well.


Title: Re: Monterey Pop Festival
Post by: Stephen W. Desper on June 21, 2017, 03:34:16 PM

It's been said that another reason for their pull-out was that Brian was afraid the group would be laughed at, with their striped shirts and clean-cut image. Any truth to that, Stephen?

COMMENT to c-man:  Yes.
Judging from the 'Lei'd In Hawaii' tapes, he was right. Although, I've always thought that if they'd played a set like they did  on the organ dominated,  in-studio  supposed 'rehearsals' for that gig, they would have come off well.

COMMENT to RP50:
Brian's paranoid reaction is a reflection of his drug indulgence and unfamiliarity with concert audiences.  I agree with your observation in that the performance they would have brought to the stage would have resulted in a toe-tapping reaction with dancing-in-place. Their songs have survived several generations, and the generation attending the Monterey Pop festal was no exception. Thinking that they would have been rejected is like thinking that an appearance by Frank Sinatra would flop.  Believe me, the audience was there to be entertained. If there's one thing the guys know how to do, it's entertainment. If they would have shown up, their set would have been one of the highlights of the evening.
~swd


Title: Re: Monterey Pop Festival
Post by: jiggy22 on June 21, 2017, 04:12:21 PM
Hell, even if they had just played "Little Deuce Coupe" ten times in a row, just being there would've helped the group surivive the late '60s to a much wider degree than they did IMO. If they had in fact played at the Monterey Pop Festival, does that mean that albums such as Friends and Sunflower would have topped the US charts instead of stalling under 100? Not exactly, but I still think playing at one of the most important counterculture events of the '60s would have helped to some degree!  :p


Title: Re: Monterey Pop Festival
Post by: rab2591 on June 21, 2017, 05:21:33 PM
Hell, even if they had just played "Little Deuce Coupe" ten times in a row, just being there would've helped the group surivive the late '60s to a much wider degree than they did IMO. If they had in fact played at the Monterey Pop Festival, does that mean that albums such as Friends and Sunflower would have topped the US charts instead of stalling under 100? Not exactly, but I still think playing at one of the most important counterculture events of the '60s would have helped to some degree!  :p

Agreed. They would've been more a part of the conversation in the counter culture thanks to Monterey, and thus they would've been seen as being slightly more relevant than they turned out to be post 67. What these guys have proved to this day is that people will never tire of hearing these songs in a live setting...and I really think that people would've dug them at Monterey; striped shirts and all.


Title: Re: Monterey Pop Festival
Post by: guitarfool2002 on June 21, 2017, 07:30:52 PM
For all the uses of the phrase "red herring", it strikes me that the whole image issue with the striped shirts could have been eliminated by them simply not wearing the striped shirts. Or any uniform for that matter. Situation avoided. The band takes the stage in their own clothing like most of the other groups who played Monterey. Let the music stand on it's own. Was anyone forcing them to wear matching striped shirts? Of course not.

Taken in that context, the striped shirt issue becomes a non-issue if they simply don't wear them.


Title: Re: Monterey Pop Festival
Post by: Stephen W. Desper on June 21, 2017, 08:43:05 PM
For all the uses of the phrase "red herring", it strikes me that the whole image issue with the striped shirts could have been eliminated by them simply not wearing the striped shirts. Or any uniform for that matter. Situation avoided. The band takes the stage in their own clothing like most of the other groups who played Monterey. Let the music stand on it's own. Was anyone forcing them to wear matching striped shirts? Of course not.

Taken in that context, the striped shirt issue becomes a non-issue if they simply don't wear them.

COMMENT to Guitarfool2002:  If my memory is still good, I believe the group was into crushed white velvet suits around this time. Perhaps Brian thought they were still wearing the old shirts, since he was not on the road at that time.  Although Brian was on the advisory board of the Festival I cannot emphasize enough the influence on judgement that drugs played in Brian's outlook.  I never heard anyone discussing a clothing problem. It was Carl and the feds, Brian's erratic studio behavior, and Michael's diet arrogance that seemed to be the excuse. Whatever the excuse it was a bad call . . . one that is still regretted today.     ~swd


Title: Re: Monterey Pop Festival
Post by: jiggy22 on June 21, 2017, 09:05:58 PM
All the worst possible things happened at the worst possible (and most important) time for the group it seems. Kicking off their next big tour in '68 (one that could have possibly helped the group recover from the Monterey dropout) with the Maharishi opening probably wasn't the best decision either (financially, commercially, AND critically speaking)...


Title: Re: Monterey Pop Festival
Post by: Malc on June 22, 2017, 12:48:10 AM
From a personal POV I find it most frustrating that The Association are vastly overlooked when talking about this historic event. When they hit the stage as the opening act it's claimed the cameras weren't even ready to film their first song (appropriately "Enter The Young") and they had to partake in some onstage banter before they could start the second number. And then Phillips left them out of the film completely as they 'didn't fit the image'... (two songs later made the bonus footage in the box set).
Do you happen to know if Heider recorded EVERY song that weekend ? Or did you maybe have your own feed linked up subtly underneath the console ?? There must have been so many great performances that have never audibly surfaced as yet...


Title: Re: Monterey Pop Festival
Post by: Stephen W. Desper on June 22, 2017, 07:04:07 AM
From a personal POV I find it most frustrating that The Association are vastly overlooked when talking about this historic event. When they hit the stage as the opening act it's claimed the cameras weren't even ready to film their first song (appropriately "Enter The Young") and they had to partake in some onstage banter before they could start the second number. And then Phillips left them out of the film completely as they 'didn't fit the image'... (two songs later made the bonus footage in the box set).
Do you happen to know if Heider recorded EVERY song that weekend ? Or did you maybe have your own feed linked up subtly underneath the console ?? There must have been so many great performances that have never audibly surfaced as yet...

COMMENT to Malc:  I have no idea what Wally Heider recorded, but I can say that recording three days of music would require a truckload of tape. I would guess that the Festival was probably selectively recorded. And, having a recorder secretly underneath the console would have been highly unethical . . .  so sorry, no tapes.  ~swd


Title: Re: Monterey Pop Festival
Post by: MyDrKnowsItKeepsMeCalm on June 22, 2017, 08:49:58 AM
Desper, Do you Remember part of the setlist intended?

COMMENT to Beach Boys Collection: 

For the complete set list I refer you to this link >>>
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monterey_Pop_Festival_(set_list)


~swd
More support for the 'BBs should have gone even if they just played old hits' viewpoint: According to the setlist, Help Me Rhonda was performed by Johnny Rivers!



Title: Re: Monterey Pop Festival
Post by: Steve Latshaw on June 23, 2017, 08:53:53 AM
To Mr. Desper -

Did you record the Lei'd In Hawaii shows in August of 1967?


Title: Re: Monterey Pop Festival
Post by: guitarfool2002 on June 23, 2017, 09:02:17 AM
(http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n295/guitarfool2002/bbh6_zpsxn4tbcmf.jpg)

(http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n295/guitarfool2002/bbh2_zpsrvhwk5k8.jpg)

In Hawaii Jim Lockert engineered, Bill Halverson and Dale Manquen assisted.


Title: Re: Monterey Pop Festival
Post by: SMiLE Brian on June 23, 2017, 10:30:42 AM
BW is rocking the prototype of his 2017 Hawaii look! 8)


Title: Re: Monterey Pop Festival
Post by: Stephen W. Desper on June 23, 2017, 12:03:57 PM
To Mr. Desper -

Did you record the Lei'd In Hawaii shows in August of 1967?

COMMENT to Steve Latshaw:  No.  ~swd


Title: Re: Monterey Pop Festival
Post by: Ed Roach on June 23, 2017, 12:33:28 PM
(http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n295/guitarfool2002/bbh6_zpsxn4tbcmf.jpg)

[img width=466 height=350]http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n295/guitarfool2002/bbh2_zpsrvhwk5k8.jpg]

In Hawaii Jim Lockert engineered, Bill Halverson and Dale Manquen assisted.

So disappointed there isn't enough of a push for the album from Capitol.
I'm dying to transfer the 16mm original footage to hi-def.
These shots came from a really poor transfer for American Band many, many years ago


Title: Re: Monterey Pop Festival
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Murry the Friendly Ghost ♯♫♩🐇 on June 23, 2017, 01:10:16 PM
BW is rocking the prototype of his 2017 Hawaii look! 8)

I know, right? That first picture he looks like his modern day self with a wig...I did a doubletake


Title: Re: Monterey Pop Festival
Post by: HeyJude on June 23, 2017, 02:22:58 PM
(http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n295/guitarfool2002/bbh6_zpsxn4tbcmf.jpg)

[img width=466 height=350]http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n295/guitarfool2002/bbh2_zpsrvhwk5k8.jpg]

In Hawaii Jim Lockert engineered, Bill Halverson and Dale Manquen assisted.

So disappointed there isn't enough of a push for the album from Capitol.
I'm dying to transfer the 16mm original footage to hi-def.
These shots came from a really poor transfer for American Band many, many years ago

How many hours do you think you might have of BB-related 16mm (and 8mm, etc.) footage? Perhaps a Kickstarter sort of thing to fund the HD transfer of the footage for a Blu-ray release could be done. I'd gladly pay in some money for a Blu-ray, and perhaps, and since I'm guessing some or most of it doesn't have sound (or even if it does), the perfect complement could be a "Commentary" track from you and maybe Howie Edelson?


Title: Re: Monterey Pop Festival
Post by: SMiLE Brian on June 23, 2017, 02:24:41 PM
Those Hawaiian clips are great in American family. Imagine them in HD! :smokin


Title: Re: Monterey Pop Festival
Post by: guitarfool2002 on June 23, 2017, 06:52:58 PM
(http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n295/guitarfool2002/bbh6_zpsxn4tbcmf.jpg)

[img width=466 height=350]http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n295/guitarfool2002/bbh2_zpsrvhwk5k8.jpg]

In Hawaii Jim Lockert engineered, Bill Halverson and Dale Manquen assisted.

So disappointed there isn't enough of a push for the album from Capitol.
I'm dying to transfer the 16mm original footage to hi-def.
These shots came from a really poor transfer for American Band many, many years ago

That's where I ripped them from, and a fairly poor quality transfer of AB at that. It was all that was available. I went frame by frame when I was researching the Hawaii concerts and other 66-67 recording studio history looking for clues and other hidden images. In the AB film those scenes of the recording setup I clipped are blink and miss. But what was on there turned out to be what was - to my knowledge - the only available visual record of Jim Lockert actually working with Brian and the band either recording or mixing in '67. It was also some of the only known footage of Jim Lockert period, apart from various photos of him in the old UA newsletters. Very few people knew what Jim actually looked like, and there hiding in the AB doc was film of him working that custom Frank DiMedio board which Heider had shipped to Hawaii for the concerts, at that time the most state of the art mobile recording rig available in LA. Historic stuff.

I second the hope that someday this footage and the other surrounding footage like the reel of Brian at Western mixing with Chuck on 8 track will be transferred to HD. It needs to be seen. Recall that the Western footage also revealed that Brian was indeed running 8 tracks at Western with Chuck at a time when it was assumed he was only working at Columbia with 8 track tape machines.

Another frustration is that years ago, somehow a full unedited clip of the Hawaii 16mm film showing mostly the concert shots mysteriously appeared on one of the standard stock footage repository sites. It had a time code strip, but it looked like a full run of the Hawaii film footage. There was also other BB related material on the same stock footage site, but the Hawaii material was key. I was still on a dialup connection where I was, and ripping it wasn't too easy. When I went back to look again, it had been removed. And it hasn't been seen since.

It seemed like the raw footage edited into the AB project somehow got uploaded as stock footage to this site, then the choice material like Hawaii 67 was pulled down. I always wondered how that all came to be.





Title: Re: Monterey Pop Festival
Post by: Ed Roach on June 24, 2017, 10:20:37 AM
(http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n295/guitarfool2002/bbh6_zpsxn4tbcmf.jpg)

[img width=466 height=350]http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n295/guitarfool2002/bbh2_zpsrvhwk5k8.jpg]

In Hawaii Jim Lockert engineered, Bill Halverson and Dale Manquen assisted.

So disappointed there isn't enough of a push for the album from Capitol.
I'm dying to transfer the 16mm original footage to hi-def.
These shots came from a really poor transfer for American Band many, many years ago

That's where I ripped them from, and a fairly poor quality transfer of AB at that. It was all that was available. I went frame by frame when I was researching the Hawaii concerts and other 66-67 recording studio history looking for clues and other hidden images. In the AB film those scenes of the recording setup I clipped are blink and miss. But what was on there turned out to be what was - to my knowledge - the only available visual record of Jim Lockert actually working with Brian and the band either recording or mixing in '67. It was also some of the only known footage of Jim Lockert period, apart from various photos of him in the old UA newsletters. Very few people knew what Jim actually looked like, and there hiding in the AB doc was film of him working that custom Frank DiMedio board which Heider had shipped to Hawaii for the concerts, at that time the most state of the art mobile recording rig available in LA. Historic stuff.

I second the hope that someday this footage and the other surrounding footage like the reel of Brian at Western mixing with Chuck on 8 track will be transferred to HD. It needs to be seen. Recall that the Western footage also revealed that Brian was indeed running 8 tracks at Western with Chuck at a time when it was assumed he was only working at Columbia with 8 track tape machines.

Another frustration is that years ago, somehow a full unedited clip of the Hawaii 16mm film showing mostly the concert shots mysteriously appeared on one of the standard stock footage repository sites. It had a time code strip, but it looked like a full run of the Hawaii film footage. There was also other BB related material on the same stock footage site, but the Hawaii material was key. I was still on a dialup connection where I was, and ripping it wasn't too easy. When I went back to look again, it had been removed. And it hasn't been seen since.

It seemed like the raw footage edited into the AB project somehow got uploaded as stock footage to this site, then the choice material like Hawaii 67 was pulled down. I always wondered how that all came to be.




Man, I love your dedication and research!  Only wish the years hadn't frustrated me, and maybe then I'd have pulled together a documentary of my own by now...

As to your "frustration", I can explain.  My deal with Malcolm Leo, re: American Band, was to copy a certain number of minutes of my archival footage, but he was limited in the number of minutes he could use.  And our contract was a limited use license, that extended only to home video use.  (The contract was violated almost immediately, when he briefly released it as a feature!  But that's another story, for another day.)
Several years ago, I saw someone post a clip of footage that I own the rights to, albeit with time code.  I tracked down the source, and found that they were licensing several things, not just Beach Boys, for Malcolm.  I immediately contacted him, and he very quickly had everything taken down.  (I think he had hoped that I had disappeared forever...  guess what, I ain't going anywhere...  I'm here for the long haul).

Hope this helps alleviate your frustration, keep up the good work, and hang in there.  These things will eventually see the light of day.


Title: Re: Monterey Pop Festival
Post by: Rocker on June 24, 2017, 10:31:20 AM
Now that's some interesting stuff!
How much of the Hawaii shows did you film, Ed?


Title: Re: Monterey Pop Festival
Post by: Ian on June 24, 2017, 08:15:52 PM
Ed met Dennis in oct 1968 when they played the Fillmore. He didn't film the Hawaii footage. He was just explaining that Malcolm leased a lot of footage including 1970s films that he shot-for example the American band documentary has the footage ed shot of Dennis to promote Pacific Ocean blue in 1977.


Title: Re: Monterey Pop Festival
Post by: Rocker on June 25, 2017, 09:18:34 AM
Ah ok, thanks. Misunderstood that


Title: Re: Monterey Pop Festival
Post by: RP50 on July 02, 2017, 11:08:39 AM
Just read the set lists. At least a Beach Boys song got played that weekend. Johnny Rivers opened with "Help Me Rhonda."



Desper, Do you Remember part of the setlist intended?

COMMENT to Beach Boys Collection: 

For the complete set list I refer you to this link >>>
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monterey_Pop_Festival_(set_list)

For information on bands that accepted and performed AND for bands that were invited but declined or no-shows, I refer you to this link >>>
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monterey_Pop_Festival


~swd

Stephen- I think he meant the full setlist the BB had planned to play had they played the show.


Title: Re: Monterey Pop Festival
Post by: Bicyclerider on July 02, 2017, 11:14:35 AM
The footage of Brian at Western with 8 track - do we have a date for that film?


Title: Re: Monterey Pop Festival
Post by: guitarfool2002 on July 02, 2017, 12:08:32 PM
The footage of Brian at Western with 8 track - do we have a date for that film?


Not an exact date yet - But this link and some old links quoted there give the whole story as far as trying to do detective work on that Western film and trying to pinpoint a more exact date using the still frames I posted.

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,23292.25.html (http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,23292.25.html)

It could be late November into December 1966 based on Carl reading that German magazine cover dated Sept '66, as the band had just returned from their European tour including stops in Germany...or it could be January '67 when all the studio activity picked up on a more regular basis. Or it could be earlier, around the time of the GV promo filming, maybe October '66.

It really is a mystery!


Title: Re: Monterey Pop Festival
Post by: Rocker on July 05, 2017, 12:09:53 PM
Having now listened to the Lei'd in Hawaii-album, I will say what I have said with regards to the Hawaii shows for a while: I think such a set would probably have gone on very well for the Beach Boys. Probably wouldn't have hurt if they were a little cleaner and rehearsed and of course have Bruce + Brian with them. But yes, I can see them doing fine. Imagine what it must've been like to have the Beach Boys in all their vocal glory singing this version of "God only knows" on stage.


Now, those shirts.... :-D I think the outfits they wore at rehearsals were good enough: