The Smiley Smile Message Board

Brian (not to mention the Beach Boys and many other bands, for that matter) has been widely known to use his older, unreleased material on his "new" solo albums. I'm curious, has anyone ever counted through his solo albums and noted which songs were actually "new" (meaning not recorded before other than as recent, pre-album demos...not widely booted, not intended for previous albums, etc.).

On GIOMH, I know that almost all of the songs existed in previous incarnations, whether from the Paley sessions, Joe Thomas era, or even earlier. Are "You've Touched Me," A Friend Like You" and "The Waltz" the only new songs?

I'm curious to hear everyone's input on each of the three studio solo albums (not counting Smile, which is too obvious). What's new, what's old, what are the oldest recordings of each song?

I don't think "The Waltz" was a new song. Wasn't it a re-working of "Let's Stick Together" from the SWEET INSANITY sessions?

You've Touched Me recycles part of the melody from a Wilson/Usher track from '86 entitled So Long (aka Turning Point). The Waltz has the same music as the Sweet Insanity track Let's Stick Together.

Keep it up, all. So is "A Friend Like You" the only really new track on GIOMH? What about the others?

Ok, I have a minute to spare, and I'm going from memory:

*BW88
Walkin' The Line - first recorded during the Usher sessions
Little Children - written in 1976 as They're Marching Along
There's So Many - demoed in 1983 as Up In The Sky
Rio Grande - consist almost entirely of fragments written by Brian since the Seventies and onwards, with some new assistance from Paley


*Imagination
She Says That She Needs Me - the same as Sandy/Sherry/Terry She Needs Me
Sunshine - Sometimes you never what version of a fragment was written first with Brian but the tag shows up in Believe In Yourself.
Happy Days - recorded in 1970 and 1980 as My Solution
+ two old BB covers

Roxy:
The First Time - recorded in 1983 as In the Nighttime (and the demo is 1000000 times better than the live version)
This Isn't Love - recorded in 1982 as I Say A Prayer

Basically, yes... the title track was originally done for Imagination.

BW 88-
melt away- i could sware that it was from early 86-87.
there's so many i thought was from 79.

Imagination-
Where has love been?- from the Paley era?

Good melodies are timeless. Lyrical ideas may or may not be. There are a number of composers who write meoldies and them stash them away for another time.

The fact that Brian's melodies are recycled is not new. He did it with I Do and County Fair for example. Another example would be the conversion of Sharon Marie's tune Thinkin' 'Bout You Baby to Darlin' then back to its old lyrics on the Spring album. In essence, he's been doing it forever.

This is a complex question. I think it's tough to say that Brian ever specifically writes for an album these days -- he goes through prolific periods, which produce songs for albums that span years.

For instance, he composed prolifically in the mid-80s -- that's where Love and Mercy came from, for instance. Also Don't Let Her Know She's an Angel and so on. I actually put together a Web site lisitng all of Brian's solo songs, released and un, so I'm reasonably informaed.

But album for album:

Brian Wilson 88

Love And Mercy (had been written in mid-80s)
Walkin the Line (had already been written and recorded with Gary Usher in the mid-80s)
Little Children (dates from the 70s)
Rio Grande (Night Bloomin Jasmine dates from the early 80s, also uses River Song exerpts)


Imagination

Your Imagination (In its bridge, uses a riff from Wilson/Paley Mary Anne)
She Says that She Needs Me (60s vintage song. This was also cut for the 88 album)
Where Has Love Been (mid-90s Wilson/Paley collab)
Cry (written at least two years before the CD came out; I read about it in Breakaway newslaeter in 95 or 96)
Keep an Eye on Summer
Let Him Run Wild (both BB remakes)
Happy Days (uses "My Solution" from 70-ish)

GIOMH

Sould Searchin (90s Paley)
You've Touched Me (based on 80s Usher collab, but with new bridge sections)
Gettin in Over My Head (90s Paley)
City Blues (early 80s)
Desert Drive (90s Paley)
Make a Wish (Sweet Insanity, early 90s)
Rainbow Eyes (ditto)
Saturday Morning in the City (Smile era tune, demoed up in the 80s, elaborated in mid 90s with Paley)
Fairy Tale (late 80s tune rewritten for SI as "Save the Day)
DLHKSAA (mid 80s)
The Waltz (late 80s collab with Parks, rewritten for SI as "The Waltz")

"How Could We Still Be Dancin" was written post-Imagination and intended for its follow-up, so in a way it was written for GIOMH.

"Saturday Morning in the City (Smile era tune, demoed up in the 80s, elaborated in mid 90s with Paley)"

I wouldn't call SMITC a "Smile era tune" - it's just a small fragment of the melody which comes from the Smile "All Day" section.

I meant tune literally, as in a bit of melody. Not in any kind of developed sense.

That's why a song like "This Isn't Love" is a strange case. The verse melody definitely turns up in the cocaine sessions, but it's obvious that all Brian has ia a bit of a tune and some words. The song itself was fully worked out in the mid-90s with Tony Asher -- and that includes the chorus/bridge section.

I think it's fair to say that Brian never exactly stops working on his songs until they come out. And even then, he sometimes keeps going. I mean, look at "The Man With All the Toys" on the recent XMas CD. It has new instrumental sections and a coda.

amazingly, B Wilson has so much unreleased material left to play with, he could practically record 2 or 3 more albums of 'new' songs without so much as lifting a pen...

And some of us would love it [depending on how well it was done, of course, and how well the new versions stood up against what we already know], and some would despise it as another example of laziness on Brian's part.  I"m in the first camp, myself...

Put me in the second camp. Brian proved with "WIRWFC" and "Christmasey" that he can still write amazing songs. And that´s what I expect from the new rock´n´roll-album: 12 amazing new songs.

I think Brian had a pretty good album there in the Wilson/Paley sessions.  It's a shame that the integrity of those recordings has been ruined by their non release and then the retrospective plundering on to different albums, not just GIOMH, as I feel will surely be the case.  I also think that later versions tend to be inferior. 

I noticed one the other day- Brian ripping off himself... again!
For Love & Mercy he stole an instrumental section of Goin' On. Poor fans of Love & Mercy who don't like Goin' On will hear this every time from this moment forward. At 1:30 into L&M - Brian lifts the repeated bridge chords in Goin' On where the lyrics appear "I love you/forever/love won't be the same again ever - without you/I'm longing/you gave me a sense of belonging."
Sing these lyrics to that section of L&M.

KTSA rides again!  ;D

Really ? Betcha...

1. The album never gets recorded;

2. If it does, it will be about as R&R as GIOMH;

3. At least 25% of the tracks will have some history;

4. There will be at least one solid gold clunker;

5. The "Shortenin' Bread" riff will be in there somewhere.

I agree with David Leaf, than Brian never forgets a good riff. I just wish he'd forget more of his bad ones.

I concede that the majority of us here have knowledge of stuff we shouldn't, which made for a definite sense of deja vu on GIOMH, but even so, it was a disappointment in other areas. The theory that the tracks were chosen to stymie the boots flying around has its adherents. I'm definitely of the opinion that whoever chose them should never, ever be allowed to do it again.

Since 1998, Brian's released precisely three*  wholly original songs (and that includes "Path Of Life" - can you say "He Come Down" ?), which makes me think his writers block might not be the standard interview avoidance technique I thought it was.

[* maybe two - bits of one of the new Xmas songs sound naggingly familiar]

"1. The album never gets recorded;"

Of course I HOPE you are wrong. The rock´n´roll-album became some sort of running-gag, but the fact that Brian stopped the touring to write songs makes me hopeful.


"2. If it does, it will be about as R&R as GIOMH;"

Hey, I don´t expect heavy-metal from Brian, but some part of the christmas-album showed how "rocky" he can get. For example the coda of WWYAMC.


"3. At least 25% of the tracks will have some history;"

Why do you know that? I guess you are guessing.


"4. There will be at least one solid gold clunker;"

Again, there wasn´t one on the christmas-album. Imo of course. And I have to say that I can live with a clunker or two, as long as it contains some masterpieces like "WIRWFC" or "Christmasey".


"5. The "Shortenin' Bread" riff will be in there somewhere."

Was the riff used on his last couple of albums?


Yes, GIOMH wasn´t a great record, but that doesn´t mean that all of his future albums will suck. It just seems unfair to critize a record that isn´t even written yet.



P.S. I don´t want to attack you, Andrew. I´m just killing some time on this board.

I don't disagree with you, Mr. Reum. And I don't mean the post as a criticism (I believe my original post even said that it's not an uncommon practice.). It's just an exercise for curiosity's sake. Sort of, 'What's the average pre-release shelf life?'

Thought never entered my head. I hope I'm wrong too, on all counts. But going on past history... (the "SB" bit was a joke. Kinda.)

Now, now -- they both dip into the Gospel realm but the similarities are pretty thin otherwise!

ONE thing that I really want from Brian´s next record is: SHORT TITLES!!!

Walking Down The Path Of Life
Gettin In Over My Head
What I Really Want For Christmas
Don´t Let Her Know She´s An Angel
How Could We Still Be Dancin´
Saturday Morning In The City


That´s also another reason why I love "SMiLE". It´s SHORT!!!

I feel, as far as songwriting goes, it's satisfying to hear an artist write about where he's at TODAY, not 10-20 years ago. As a bit of a songwriter myself, everytime I have delved into my personal archive , I do a little less of a job with the recording, because it's where I was as a writer and musician then, not what I am writing or what is happening to me now. If you asked Brian, he might tell you the same thing, if he is honest. It almost feels like you are doing a cover version of your own song. When I wrote some songs, I was married to a different woman, lived in a different place, I was younger, so I had all of that messing with the words and music as well. If you seriously internalize your own writing, which I am sure Brian does, then the conclusion has to be made that one serious option may be that he feels the creative juices were flowing better for him then than now. The 'lazy' part, and when it comes to Brian Wilson's writing, I have to really watch that word, because nothing about his arrangements sound like a lazy songwriter, is probably his refusal to let us hear more of his musical 'soul' today, and how he is doing today. Write about the kids, or getting older, or your wife or whatever. A songwriters music is his diary. Why go back and copy pages from past diaries when you can write new entries. If not, get somebody to help. Sounds like a possible thread there. Who would you think would be the best songwriter for Brian to get with for some work.?? Past affiliation not included. My pick is Jimmy Webb. Jimmy totally understands where Brian is, and I think he would make a fine collaborator for future projects..

Luther, I wish you hadn't brought up this topic. I've been trying to avoid discussing this subject, but now I have to get it off my chest. When I'm done, don't send Stan Love and Rocky Pamplin after me. It's only one person's opinion.

Shortly after Brian re-emerged with Dr. Landy in 1983, there were rumblings of a Brian Wilson solo career. Supposedly, Brian wanted to make music outside of the Beach Boys' "confines". Brian wanted to stretch out. Brian wanted to be free to make the music that was in his head. Brian wanted to be the producer. And Brian didn't want to work with Mike Love. OK.

Well, twenty-some years, six studio albums, two live albums, and a few B sides later, what do we have? To me, essentially, Brian has recorded twenty years' worth of Beach Boys' music - WITHOUT THE BEACH BOYS!. This thread has prompted me to look at Brian's solo recordings. I don't see one BW solo album (including BWPS) or even one BW solo track (except "Thank You") that would've been unacceptable for the Beach Boys to record. More importantly, I don't hear one BW solo song that wouldn't benefited from the Beach Boys' vocals. When I listen to "Melt Away", I hear Carl. When I hear "Rio Grande", I hear Al. When I hear "South American" or "Desert Drive", I hear Mike. And so on. And so on. You get the point.

Since 1987, Brian has worked with Russ Titelman, Jeff Lynne, Lindsey Buckingham, Don Was, Van Dyke Parks, Darian Sahanaja, and Jeff Foskett. Some might include Bob Dylan, Elton John, Paul McCartney, Eric Clapton, Willie Nelson, and Jimmy Webb. Not too shabby. I had hoped that just by associating with these people, something would've rubbed off, some kind of spark, some kind of inspiration. I was hoping for new material, something brilliant and dynamic. Brian could've recorded anything he wanted, as daring and complex as possible. I guess I'm just disappointed at the path he chose.

Did Brian stretch out? I don't think so. This thread kind of proves that. Did Brian break new ground? No, he recycled old ideas. Peter Reum stated that "in essence, he's been doing it forever." While that statement is basically true, it is also misleading. In Brian's earlier days with the Beach Boys, he might've recycled one, maybe two songs per album. BUT HE WAS PRODUCING UP TO THREE NEW ALBUMS PER YEAR! In Brian's solo career, he went TEN YEARS from BW88 to Imagination, and then SIX YEARS from Imagination to GIOMH. That's a big difference. His recent solo albums are dominated by re-workings. Even more perplexing are the re-recordings of old Beach Boys' songs. For almost 28 years (1967-1995), Brian rejected his Beach Boys past. Now, in the past 10 years, he has re-recorded, in one form or another, dozens of songs from his past catalogue. In my opinion, very few of these re-recordings surpass the originals.

The history books will probably be kind in evaluating Brian's solo career. His emergence as a concert performer and the resurrection of SMiLE will be highlighted. But as someone who lived and died with every new release, I will view it differently. I will see it as a bunch of would've, should've, could'ves. I will see it as wasted opportunities for 3-4 strong Beach Boys albums that would've been superior to the Brian's solo recordings that eventually surfaced. OK, I'm done now.

Sheriff John Stone... why don't you leave him alone!

I see your point in all aspects, but in essence (not completely) Brian was the Beach Boys. He was the sound & partial lyricist. He was mentor to the other BB's. He created that sound and they followed. That's what he did and did it well. How can you stretch out and expound upon an already great catalog? What he did was what he was good at. Familiar & comfortable with.

Every artist reaches into their back catalog to see what was there and what could be done with it. The Beatles did it. Del Shannon did it. Michael Nesmith did it. Everyone has done it. Ask any of the musicians on this board. Do you play? I've done it and will continue to do it (though I'm not comparing myself in any way to any of those mentioned above). If you're an artist and have been around for a while there's bound to be some tunes that you've never completed and would finally like to attempt or finish. Granted, not everything he has done has been good, then again there's only a very small handful of artists that you can say didn't do anything that was junk.

Brian has such a large catalog that you & I are so familiar with and have known for so long with that if something new comes along you can't help but say that sounds like him. No matter what he does- it's going to sound like him. It's his voice. His music. His lyrics. His idea. It's him and can't sound like anyone else. When some people step beyond their boundaries they record 'Smart Girls.'

I dunno. Those are my immediate thoughts. I do see your points though.
And, I'm glad no Clapton rubbed off on Brian! Can you imagine the mess that would have made?

I think one thing that's important to remember in this topic is that Brian isn't releasing (with the exception of two tracks on Imagination) old songs that were already released...he's releasing tracks that we know of because we're thieves. (Sorry, but they're boots...) Obviously, as the composer, he has a right to tinker with his songs as long as he wants, and if they're not just right, to shelve them for a year, a decade, or however long. Now, we all have our opinions of which would have been better (although I tend to think that most fans ALWAYS say the older, unreleased one(s) is better, probably mostly to show their "insider" status), but the other versions, in essence, don't count if they aren't released.

To assume a musician is somehow required to write 10-12 completely new songs because an album is coming out is contrary to the history of recorded music. Thelonius Monk rarely released a new song from the moment he got onto Capitol, and the bulk of his better songs were on a half-dozen or more albums. Talk about recycling! At least Brian just uses unreleased songs... But pop musicians, too, as previously noted, also did this commonly. Everyone knows a few of the Beatles tracks on Let it Be were old. Across the Universe, for example, was a couple of years old and had been released in different form. A few of the others (One After 909? Two of Us? I forget the specifics) were early songs that were just finally properly done. Writing songs isn't easy. And writing 10-12 on demand that "show where you are now"is just silly. It doesn't work that way--at least not with the best consistent results. Brian's music isn't generally the spur of the moment, confessional type.  It doesn't matter whether they were released now, in the 80s, or in the 60s. The general emotions in them tend to be vague, and the lyrical references are hardly topical.

Last (but not least), read a book of short stories. Then check the notes on the stories. Do we get mad when we find out Jhumpa Lahiri's stories weren't all newly written, but actually published before in magazines, etc.? Of course not. It's expected. A book of short stories is a compilation of stories. An album is a compilation of songs.

I think the references to Brian being lazy because he uses older ideas or older songs is simply idoitic, and shows no respect for the art or craft of songwriting. He may be lazy (I don't know the man!), but using previously unused songs isn't enough to make him so!

End rant.
 

I agree with all of the posts. They all have their merits. We would not have known these songs on GIOMH were older if we haven't scoped out the demos and unreleased versions. I almost treat the unreleased material as a release.(sweet insanity 2nd mix is a fine example. I was just listening to it last night, and I listened as a BW album, although I know 95% of the public has never heard it) When you talk about Brian's creativity, we all speak of the man with love and respect, and he has earned it with his stellar work. I, for one, like to be surprised out of my socks by something brand new from one of my favorite composers. That is why "how can we keep from dancing" knocked me out. I have never heard that before, and it sounded incredible. I would just like him to do all that he wants to do as far as his music is concerned before old age starts creeping in and taking their effects. I know he is doing some of that now, cleaning out the backlog of music in the closet, but if there is anything new he wants to present as an artist, now is the time to do it, while his voice is strong, and the fire is still in the belly.

Sorry, but saying "Brian sucks, because he doesn´t release another Today or Pet Sounds or SMiLE" is a little bit like saying "Beethoven sucked, because he only wrote 9 symphonys instead of 15".

I don´t really know how to express it. It´s just that Brian has done enough good music to be acknowledged as one of the greatest composer of the 20th century.

Totally agree.

If Brian doesn't release anymore songs, I'll still be happy; as he's released so much truly great music already.

.. and the archives will still be there for future dipping into long after we're all gone.

Sheriff John Stone - I understand your disappointment; it would have been great if Brian had spent the last ten (or twenty years) creating envelope-pushing experiments that would have defied all expectations. But the reality is that Brian has written and recorded a considerable amount of material (especially compared to, say, contemporary John Fogerty) that probably wouldn't have ended up on a Beach Boys album. We could say that all of the Paley/Wilson material was written with the Beach Boys in mind, but they (the band) didn't want those songs; they wanted to do "Stars & Stripes" instead! Just because we think a particular Brian Wilson song could fit on a Beach Boys album, doesn't mean it would have gone down that way in the 80s, 90s or today. I bet in Brian's mind there are quite a few released solo tracks he wouldn't have considered offering the Beach Boys if they had been a going concern for him, plus some more they would have rejected outright. Off the top of my head, I would say that "Love & Mercy", "Baby, Let You Hair Grow Long", "Rio Grande", "Everything I Want", "This Isn't Love", "Cry", "Happy Days", "City Blues", "A Friend Like You", "The Waltz", "SMiLE" as an album (obviously), "Path Of Life" and maybe even "What I Really Want For Christmas" and "Christmasey" would have never come out if Brian was still working for the Beach Boys. Add to this the magnificent "Orange Crate Art" collaboration and the live presentation of "Pet Sounds" and "SMiLE" and I'm perfectly happy with Brian contribution as a solo artist.

Where I would completely agree with you is in the remakes of previously released songs (apart from "SMiLE" of course). The "I Just Wasn't Made For These Times" album was fine, but I would really rather not see anymore reinterpretations of old Beach Boys standards. Now...bring on the rock-n-roll!