The Smiley Smile Message Board

Been listening to Kokomo a lot over the last few days. It reminds me of being younger, school holidays, first romances. Carl's voice is stunning, the band sound tight (if a little TOO 80's) and Mike's bass is just spot on. Really think this is an under rated classic.

Would love to hear your thoughts on this beautiful slice of summer-shine.

Meh. 50/50. Carl's bit is indeed very beautiful and I like the harmony and progression on the chorus. The verses are really boring to me.

Carl's vocal tag is the soul of Kokomo !

I used to think the 80s pop sound was overly cheesy.  But, you know what?  I'll take 80s pop over just about any other pop that came after. 

I think Kokomo is a really good song.  Granted, I don't even think it's the best song the Beach Boys released in the 1980s, but I've always liked it. 

While the song may be considered "cheesy" to some, I don't know if I'd ever term the song "underrated." It hit #1, the video was played incessantly on TV, and it's still recognizable to this day to even non-fans.

Apologies. I meant under rated by Beach Boys fans. Sure. It was a huge hit in some of the world, but I feel it is often over looked by perhaps slightly more 'hardcore fans'. When discussing the band, this song is often just a footnote. I think it's a classi and one of their best. Easily in my top ten BB singles.

I'd agree that it does tend to be overlooked by hardcore BB fans.   I think, to a certain degree, its overlooked because it hit #1 in the charts when many of their hits from their golden years failed to do the same. 

Yep, and it's an unfortunate hot-button topic among hardcore fans. I'm sure it's a little bit like asking a bunch of Jefferson Airplane/Jefferson Starship fans what they think of "We Built This City", or a lifelong Clapton fan how much they like "Pretending" or something.  

"Kokomo" is a catchy song, a nice example of good pop song writing in that that late 80s era (I agree with Emily, it's the choruses that are the catchy part, the verses veer more towards camp/novelty).

I've seen few "hardcore" fans say the song sucks. Sure, a few trolls will say so. But most grizzled hardcore fans in my experience have recognized it for what it is, a catchy anomaly in the vacuum that was their mid-late 80s/early 90s output, one that holds up well to their other post-1980 output, partly because there isn't much competition. I think, as objective as hardcore fans can be, most recognize that in terms of impact, composition, structure, arrangement, and production, the song is not on the same level as other generally agreed-upon "classics" from their catalog, including their other well-known hits.

We all have our favorites. I like "Oh Darlin'" from 1980 more than most. I like hunks of KTSA and BB'85 and MIU, and so on.

The reason "Kokomo" ended up becoming a hot button topic among hardcore fans is that Mike Love wasn't content to just see the song for what it was, a good song that gave the band a shot in the arm. I don't think anyone would even begrudge always including it in the setlist. But he felt the need to equate it to the band's best output ever, and talks about the song *all the time.* There are other artists who don't do this. To reiterate an example I used elsewhere, McCartney hasn't regularly contended that "Pipes of Peace" or "Coming Up" are on par with the greatest Beatles songs.

It's not a bad song...until that horrible sax solo kicks in.

Wow. That's a strong statement. I think one thing that causes division among Beach Boys fans is what originally caught their interest. The Beach Boys music is varied enough that their fans can differ very strongly in their tastes.

Also, I think for some fans that lived through that era and actually did listen to radio and watch MTV and VH1, there was a severe burnout on the song. It was definitely *overplayed* in my opinion, and there was a burnout factor the same way people were sick of hearing Hootie and Blowfish tracks in the 90s, or the "Macarena", and so on.

So, while I again wouldn't begrudge including a #1 in their setlist, the fact that the song was also played at *every* show pretty much that they ever did starting in 1988 when it became a hit, might have contributed to the burnout factor a bit for some fans.

I could see that.  That's the same reason many Metallica fans hate their self titled 1991 album (AKA "The Black Album"). 

If Brian had written it and released it on his debut album, everyone would still be raving about what a fantastic return to form it was and how genius it was etc.

Bull. If that were true, nobody would criticize GIOMH or  Imagination, just to name two

I think there's a bit of truth in there among a fraction of fans.  

Although, to be fair, On the Island from Brian's NPP album has somewhat similar subject matter, and didn't seem to set the world on fire with that same fraction of fans.

Untrue.

HeyJude is right; the reaction that a good number of fans have to the song (tending to dislike it, or at least be put off by too much praise for the song) has everything to do with Mike excessively praising the song, and excessively bringing it up as an example of why he is such a great songwriter sans Brian.

If Brian had written Kokomo, and kept going on and on and on about what a kick-ass songwriter he is for writing Kokomo, people would similarly tire of hearing about that at a certain point.

I "get" why Mike does it, I "get" how someone's psychological craving for praise and recognition could lead them to repeatedly boast about a song like this... but in the context of the band's catalog, it does become more than a bit "much" for many people to handle. If one is to cut Mike some slack for repeatedly boasting about Kokomo, one should also understand why many people are put off *specifically* by that boasting.

It's a very good song. No doubt. But Good Vibrations it ain't. Yet if one hadn't yet heard a note of either song, but just heard interviews of Mike talking about both songs, they'd probably come away with the impression that GV + Kokomo are both relative equals in terms of kick-ass-ness. Just because they both hit #1, they are not equals in the slightest.

And I say all this as a fan of Kokomo. I dig it a lot.

It's a good song, good vocals all around. The sax solo is regrettable.

I know I'm in the minority, but I like the sax solo.  Sometimes some good sax can really improve the day.   

Although I do find Mike's miming the sax in the video to be pretty amusing. 

I, too, like the sax solo.  Fits the song well.

Hi all,

Kokomo is a fabulous song.  Carl sings very well.

Catchy but super lame presentation. A parody of the Beach Boys sound. West Coast daydream turns into an aging baby boomer fantasy commercial for a Florida cruise. The sickest of all sick things. A career low point that the BB brand has never fully recovered from. Instigator of the Beach Boys' confused cultural paradigm.

The self parody thing really started with 15 Big Ones IMO. 

Also, there are lows from 1976-1992 that are much lower than Kokomo. 

15 Big Ones is a golden masterpiece compared to Kokomo. 15 Big Ones is a deranged madman of a record that would never have seen the light of day if it didn't come from the creative universe of Brian Wilson.

Sure, there are lower lows than Kokomo. But there is no more NOTABLE or INFLUENTIAL low.

Forever with John Stamos is somewhere beneath it, IMHO

However, which of their Number Ones have not been played at *every* show since 1988 (and long before, since they're all 20+ years older)?  I don't think there's much burnout factor concerning "I Get Around", "Rhonda", and "Good Vibrations", is there?

I don't think you can get any worse than Summer of Love.  Well....maybe the disco version of Here Comes the Night.  At least Summer of Love has the decency to go away after 3 minutes.

I used to hate "Kokomo" with a vengeance. And pooh-pooh most of the later stuff in general.

But my perspective on the Boys has broadened over the past decade and I find I can warm to many of their more recent things. I even get a warm feeling when I hear "Kokomo" playing in the local supermarket! It's hardly in my BB top ten or even top fifty but I'm perfectly comfortable with it now... 

I like it.  Summer 1988...I was 16 years old and hanging out with a great group of friends, going out every night, budding romances, etc..

But I digress.  It's a good song.  I don't like the sax solo, but the song was perfect for its time.  I agree that Carl's voice is the best part of the song, but the rest is not terrible.  

Now I am craving a Mai Tai.

I was already middle age at the time, so, sorry, no Kokomo teen surfin' sunshine nostalgia for me.
Said that, I find Mike's "Aruba Jamaica etc." insanely catchy. I don't love Mike, but love his bass/baritone voice. No voice says "Beach Boys" to me more than Mike's bass/baritone.
On the sax solo, I agree 100% with Billy. On the rest, I'm on a fence (Carl's voice is great as always, of course).
On the whole, a happy, catchy song which deserved to be a #1 hit more than many others.
Great art it isn't, but I like listening to it and even dancing a little to it, once in a while.

I like it. A lot. It's a cracking record.

I like 15 Big Ones as well. Played it way more than Love You.

KTSA is a pretty cool record too. Going' On rocks!

  Perhaps not IF either of those albums had gone to Number One.

Kokomo is great Ian. My kids really love it. Have you heard the Muppet's versions? That is also an enjoyable listen! I loved the film clip when I was a kid, the youngish lady in a pink bikini was a big draw card! I was a lot more naive then and liked it more than the other top 40 songs of the day. Of course Cocktail helped over here in Australia.

Kokomo was a welcome relief when it was first released.  There was SO MUCH shyte on the radio that Kokomo shone like a beacon THANKS TO CARL WILSON.  W/O Carl? it's only barely o.k..  There have been really good to GREAT songs on every album from Surfin' Safari to TWGMTR.  The number of great songs per l. p. diminished as the 'bad years' progressed.  Kokomo isn't the finest moment in group history by ANY stretch of the imagination but it was still great compared to many of its contemporaries circa 1988.

The Beach Boys offer more than some give them credit for.  They have a cannon of material which is hard to live up to even for the Boys themselves.  I will not sell out Kokomo just to agree with others that Mike could be a better fella if he ever decided to put his mind to it.  That he hasn't considered that as an option is his loss.

A world where GIOMH is a number one album isn't a world I'd like to live in!

if Kokomo wasn't the hit it was, Mike Love's interviews would be only 'half' boring.

Have to agree on that too...

Maybe. Or maybe he'd have found another personal "meme".

I praise Mike's contributions to the song (as well as all the contributions of Terry, John, and all the Boys who were on it). Yet most everyone agrees that Carl is the unsung hero of the song. I wonder if Carl may have contributed anything to the song (however small) writing-wise, but uncredited?  Perhaps not a lyric, but more of just some element that he dreamt up. Of course, just Carl's voice took it to another level.

I also wonder what would have happened if hypothetically, Carl had in fact been one of the primary cowriters on Kokomo? I don't know if at that point in time, a BB hit cowritten by Mike PLUS a Wilson would have been quite as much of an ego boost (worthy of bragging about for decades to come) for Mike, as opposed to what actually happened, with the song finally proving that he could write a hit without Wilson cowriting involvement.

 

like how he wrote the words to California Girls, or how he came up with the 'im pickin up' to go over Cousin Bri's bass part,
or maybe the 'goodnight baby, sleep tight baby' lyric.  He would have to tell us again how he is mr positive thinker, and
how the boy / girl attraction works in every song.... perhaps he could tell us more about when the warmth of the sun was written.

Hey, guess what? IanLee really, really likes Kokomo! A lot,really.

My description of 15 Big Ones was meant as a compliment. I like that record (love Love you more), also MIU, LA and Keepin' the Summer Alive. The boys lose me as they get into the '80s however.

 ;D

In your opinion.

And you like it, which is also your opinion.

Yeah. I love it!

Correct. I am speaking for myself. I'm not over generalising about the reaction 'a good number of fans' have or why they have it. He doesn't know. So. Yeah. It's obviously my opinion.

Thanks

Aruba, Jamaica...

 :lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GbxFLA62Bc

MIU I struggle with. But KTSA I really dig. I quite like a lot of the 85 album. Not the best songs and the drums are awful, in my opinion, but I do like to dig it out from Time to time.

If it was true that Mike was such an incredibly gifted writer of hit songs, how come he couldn't follow up Kokomo? I do like the song, was always happy for the Boys to get another hit, but in a way, it was an unfortunate hit, because it gave Mike and Terry the idea to follow it up with a bunch of sound-alikes. Eventually, we got a full album of sound-alikes - Summer in Paradise. Even as recently as C50, Mike was trying to clone Kokomo - Daybreak Over the Ocean.

in all fairness, daybreak was written about a decade before Kokomo was released.

Which is precisely why I mentioned, in the beginning portion of the sentence quoted above, but left out of the quote:

"So, while I again wouldn't begrudge including a #1 in their setlist"

I was simply positing some possible reasons why some who, while not disliking the song, might have been a bit more inclined to be burned out on it. It was all over radio and TV in 1988/89 in a way those old #1 hits were not. Solely from a live show point of view, "Kokomo" was of course not any more ubiquitous than any of their other hits. But in terms of pop culture back when the song was released, "Kokomo" was the only BB song regularly being played on MTV, VH1, etc.

When we're talking about which songs we think are good, or which songs are better or worse than others, what *isn't* an opinion?

I mean, I guess we can try to look at various critics "Top 100" or "Top 500" lists, which is still all opinion but perhaps is more indicative of a some sort of consensus among critics. I'm pretty sure when Mojo or Record Collector does their "100 Greatest Albums" or "500 Greatest Songs" polls, you don't tend to see "Kokomo" or the "Still Cruisin'" album on those lists, while numerous other BB albums and songs do appear.

There are plenty of weird, often derided songs that I love. As long as I like it, that's all that matters.

In the case of the BBs and "Kokomo", it sometimes becomes a big "band politics" debate both from people that love and loathe the song. But I think most "hardcore" Beach Boys fans don't tend to hate the song, and admit the song is a solid, catchy song. That they don't think it belongs in the band's top tier of songs isn't a result of hating Mike Love, but just of having some relative objectivity about the quality of the song.

There are some days when I'd rather listen to "Santa Ana Winds" or "Make It Big" than "Cabinessence" or whatever. I may even, on the most basic "simple enjoyment" level, enjoy those songs more than "Cabinessence" sometimes. But I can also step back and say "Cabinessence" is a more significant, noteworthy song, recording, production, and performance.

Hey Iain! Let us know why you won't be putting out a Mike Love solo album? Why is it too costly? Was Mike asking for too much money? We're all super interested to know why that fell through.

I adore Kokomo. When I started as a BB fan, I hated it and thought it was cheesy, etc. I finally bought Still Cruisin-- one of my last back catalogue purchases-- and started to enjoy it for its nostalgia factor and the cheese factor. Now, I just plain enjoy it. Carl friggin' Wilson singing like he actually believes it, a fantastic Mike Love hook, group harmonies, and the most 1980s New York sax solo this side of Saturday Night Live. It's a perfect pop song, and I'm glad the Boys got one more #1, no matter who it came from.

Great song. I've always liked it. Catchy as hell and twice as hot.

There's no real reason. It was an idea that my business partner and I were kicking around. We got really excited about it but then some exciting Monkees releases became available to us and we decided to focus on those. Never got round to approaching Mike. I'd still like to do it one day but it's not a priority.

Not too difficult to figure out why it's not a priority. The world, believe it or not, is not holding it's breath for it to happen nor will it ever be.

No. But it would be nice for it to have an official release. You may not want it, but some people would

 It's not a priority because my label specialises in Monkees related releases and we've got some good ones coming up. That's the only reason.

More Monkees?  I can't imagine what. Their catalog has been issued and reissued more times than I can count. Would be nice to see the 1997 tv special finally get a dvd release - with a bonus disc of Billboard Live, 1996.

Monkees related, as in rare solo stuff like the obscure 70's singles Micky cut.

a catchy tune, but one I don't particularly care for.

Mike Love's contribution to the composition is rather small, just the "Aruba, Jamaica..." bit I believe, which was added to an otherwise finished song by John Phillips. but that doesn't stop Mike from basically claiming the song as his own and putting it on a pedestal with Good Vibrations and other Beach Boy classics that were actually written by Beach Boys.

 
to each their own. in my opinion, it's kind of an anti-Beach Boys song since Brian had no participation in its creation and it wouldn't have been nearly as successful without being attached to a Tom Cruise blockbuster. I don't think it holds up to repeated listens either, unlike the band's best work.

Come now, there have been many great BB songs that Brian didn't have a hand in. That doesn't make them anti-Beach Boys. Are you really going to discount 77% of Holland as "anti-Beach boys?"

Yes! And with kohkohmoh, we get the added benefit of myKe luHv forever pontificating about it forever and ever. I can easily hear the last word he'll ever utter being kohkohmoe.

I think the thing with "Kokomo" is that there is a weird irony in that while Brian isn't on it, it's pretty firmly rooted in the "Beach Boys" style that Brian created.

Stuff like "Here She Comes" or "Steamboat" or "Leaving This Town" weren't trying to ape anything to do with Brian's sound.

I've always found it funny that Mike things highly enough of "Kokomo" that, in "Endless Harmony" he talks about the song as if it was a cultural milestone or turning point in popular music; a *project* rather than a song; the way he says "Brian was called and asked to be a part of 'Kokomo'" I just find amusing for some reason. He doesn't say "asked to sing on Kokomo" or "asked to attend the Kokomo sessions", he says "asked to be a part of Kokomo" the same way you'd say "asked to be a part of a greater good" or something.

Actually we're not all "super interested" to know why a Mike Love solo project fell through. Unless of course you were being sarcastic, which is sometimes hard to read. An entire album of Mike Love  material with Mike Love  singing lead is not what the doctor ordered. Now or ever. He's a mediocre talent with a genius cousin. Now that's a recipe for success.

Plus, even though Brian isn't on it, and had no hand it writing it, I have a hard time calling a track with great harmonies from Mike, Al, Carl and Bruce, plus a great Carl lead in the chorus an "anti-Beach Boys" song. 

In your opinion. 

Yep, that of course is my opinion. Then again I don't stand to make any money by pumping up the legacy of Mike Love. By the way, i have always liked Mike. Some of this revisionist history is a little hard to stomach though.

Nor do I.

It must be hard for some to stomach, I'm sure.

I'm sure he'll devote an entire chapter to it in his upcoming autobio. "My cousin Brian and his shrink put out a big turkey of an album while I was riding high in the charts with Kokomo, the biggest selling single the Beach Boys ever had."