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Smiley Smile Stuff => General On Topic Discussions => Topic started by: Lonely Summer on May 17, 2016, 12:11:29 AM



Title: David Leaf
Post by: Lonely Summer on May 17, 2016, 12:11:29 AM
David Leaf used to be all over anything BB's or BW related; he wrote the liner notes to all of the Capitol cd's, has written liner notes for some of Brian's solo cd's, but it's been years since I've seen his name anywhere. Has he been banished from the kingdom, or did he just move on to other things?


Title: Re: David Leaf
Post by: Pretty Funky on May 17, 2016, 02:39:45 AM
http://www.schoolofmusic.ucla.edu/leaf-david


Title: Re: David Leaf
Post by: jeffh on May 17, 2016, 05:59:06 AM
It's my understanding that his wife recently passed away.


Title: Re: David Leaf
Post by: 37!ws on May 17, 2016, 08:24:55 AM
http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/latimes/obituary.aspx?pid=179551250


Title: Re: David Leaf
Post by: Lonely Summer on May 17, 2016, 07:44:18 PM
thanks, guys


Title: Re: David Leaf
Post by: Sound of Free on May 17, 2016, 09:18:08 PM
That's very sad his wife died so young. It was a nice tribute David penned for her obituary.


Title: Re: David Leaf
Post by: Jim Murphy on May 18, 2016, 04:38:44 AM

As one of her heroes was Robert Francis Kennedy, perhaps this insight from the Greek poet Aeschylus, which Bobby Kennedy admired, may bring some small measure of comfort.

"Even in our sleep, pain, which cannot forget, falls drop by drop upon the heart, until, in our own despair, against our will, comes Wisdom from the awful grace of God."

Rest in Peace, Eva Lois Easton-Leaf.  And may God welcome you home, surrounding you in His eternal love.


Title: Re: David Leaf
Post by: Cam Mott on May 18, 2016, 05:10:16 AM
I had no idea. Very sad.


Title: Re: David Leaf
Post by: JK on May 18, 2016, 05:42:49 AM

As one of her heroes was Robert Francis Kennedy, perhaps this insight from the Greek poet Aeschylus, which Bobby Kennedy admired, may bring some small measure of comfort.

"Even in our sleep, pain, which cannot forget, falls drop by drop upon the heart, until, in our own despair, against our will, comes Wisdom from the awful grace of God."

Rest in Peace, Eva Lois Easton-Leaf.  And may God welcome you home, surrounding you in His eternal love.

What a wonderfully touching post. I'm sure it will bring comfort.


Title: Re: David Leaf
Post by: Cool Cool Water on May 18, 2016, 09:41:08 AM
It's my understanding that his wife recently passed away.

Very sad news. I met David a few times on VIP Brian Wilson concerts throughout the years. A nice, down to earth guy well known in the BB circle. His tribute was really nice I thought to his late wife.


Title: Re: David Leaf
Post by: Gerry on May 18, 2016, 01:21:10 PM
I think David was very instrumental in bringing Brian to the general public. For a long time his book, "The Beach Boys and the California Myth" was a bible for me.I hope that there was no falling out.


Title: Re: David Leaf
Post by: Peter Reum on May 19, 2016, 01:21:07 PM
There would not be a Brian Wilson if David hadn't been a quiet friend and supporter in the Landy Era and beyond.


Title: Re: David Leaf
Post by: Lonely Summer on May 19, 2016, 08:47:01 PM
I think David was very instrumental in bringing Brian to the general public. For a long time his book, "The Beach Boys and the California Myth" was a bible for me.I hope that there was no falling out.
I think I annoyed my girlfriend back in 1983 because my face was stuck in that book for days at a time. I couldn't help it, it was addicting. And I eagerly grabbed the updated version when it came out in 1985.


Title: Re: David Leaf
Post by: The Shift on May 19, 2016, 10:48:46 PM
Was it really 33 years ago? I had the later version and I think it help turned fandom to obsession. "Keep the flame" David told me on a couple of occasions (PS2002 tour). Still keepin' it, kids permitting.


Title: Re: David Leaf
Post by: Lonely Summer on May 20, 2016, 05:27:17 PM
Was it really 33 years ago? I had the later version and I think it help turned fandom to obsession. "Keep the flame" David told me on a couple of occasions (PS2002 tour). Still keepin' it, kids permitting.
What was nice about the updated version was how Leaf could look back on his own obsessive fan quest to try to save Brian with some perspective. I have to admit, I had the knee-jerk reaction to hate Mike (and maybe Al) after reading the first edition of the book. Glad I grew out of that.


Title: Re: David Leaf
Post by: Steve Latshaw on May 24, 2016, 06:42:52 AM
California Myth was actually first published in 1978 - so it's almost 40 years old.

One of the fascinating sections of the book is at the end, where David Leaf lays out his wish list for what might be the best kind of future for Brian, from a professional standpoint.  Beginning in 1998, all of it, pretty much, came true.


Title: Re: David Leaf
Post by: phirnis on May 24, 2016, 10:19:31 AM
California Myth was actually first published in 1978 - so it's almost 40 years old.

One of the fascinating sections of the book is at the end, where David Leaf lays out his wish list for what might be the best kind of future for Brian, from a professional standpoint.  Beginning in 1998, all of it, pretty much, came true.

That is indeed fascinating. Did the list by any chance involve BW finishing Smile as a solo artist?


Title: Re: David Leaf
Post by: Steve Latshaw on May 24, 2016, 11:49:39 AM
<<That is indeed fascinating. Did the list by any chance involve BW finishing Smile as a solo artist?>>

Leaf talks about Brian being allowed to record and release whatever he wants, regardless of standard commercial expectations, and among other things, live solo performances of Pet Sounds, Adult Child and Smile, among other things.


Title: Re: David Leaf
Post by: Lonely Summer on May 24, 2016, 07:22:03 PM
California Myth was actually first published in 1978 - so it's almost 40 years old.

One of the fascinating sections of the book is at the end, where David Leaf lays out his wish list for what might be the best kind of future for Brian, from a professional standpoint.  Beginning in 1998, all of it, pretty much, came true.
Don't you mean 1988?


Title: Re: David Leaf
Post by: Lonely Summer on May 24, 2016, 07:28:41 PM
<<That is indeed fascinating. Did the list by any chance involve BW finishing Smile as a solo artist?>>

Leaf talks about Brian being allowed to record and release whatever he wants, regardless of standard commercial expectations, and among other things, live solo performances of Pet Sounds, Adult Child and Smile, among other things.
Unfortunately, IMO, Brian has NOT been allowed to record and release what he wants, because someone is always pushing their vision of what they think will sell - for example, the AC sound of NPP. It seems there is always someone involved that is pushing that agenda - "we gotta make something that can get airplay, something to appeal to _____________ demographic", instead of just letting Brian follow his muse. So the albums come out, they don't sell, because radio stations don't play new music by 60-70 something musicians; Brian does a few tv appearances playing some of the new stuff; a few songs are added to the setlists for that years tour; and then the following year, the new stuff is gone and it's back to all oldies, until there is another new album to push. Is this really what Brian wants, just cranking out product because it is expected of, and touring year after year, playing those old songs we used to abuse the Beach Boys for playing?


Title: Re: David Leaf
Post by: Emily on May 24, 2016, 07:35:10 PM
<<That is indeed fascinating. Did the list by any chance involve BW finishing Smile as a solo artist?>>

Leaf talks about Brian being allowed to record and release whatever he wants, regardless of standard commercial expectations, and among other things, live solo performances of Pet Sounds, Adult Child and Smile, among other things.
Unfortunately, IMO, Brian has NOT been allowed to record and release what he wants, because someone is always pushing their vision of what they think will sell - for example, the AC sound of NPP. It seems there is always someone involved that is pushing that agenda - "we gotta make something that can get airplay, something to appeal to _____________ demographic", instead of just letting Brian follow his muse. So the albums come out, they don't sell, because radio stations don't play new music by 60-70 something musicians; Brian does a few tv appearances playing some of the new stuff; a few songs are added to the setlists for that years tour; and then the following year, the new stuff is gone and it's back to all oldies, until there is another new album to push. Is this really what Brian wants, just cranking out product because it is expected of, and touring year after year, playing those old songs we used to abuse the Beach Boys for playing?
Honest question, Lonely Summer, is the above opinion based on first-hand knowledge? Cause I agree that some of his albums (Imagination comes to mind) don't seem to be thoroughly Wilsonian, but some other solo work he's done does - given that he's no longer in his twenties and techniques have changed. I imagine in any case he likes to be making music. And he does refer to writer's block a lot, so it might be for the best either way.


Title: Re: David Leaf
Post by: Fire Wind on May 25, 2016, 01:55:55 AM
I tend to assume Brian himself has standard commercial expectations.


Title: Re: David Leaf
Post by: phirnis on May 25, 2016, 04:05:16 AM
<<That is indeed fascinating. Did the list by any chance involve BW finishing Smile as a solo artist?>>

Leaf talks about Brian being allowed to record and release whatever he wants, regardless of standard commercial expectations, and among other things, live solo performances of Pet Sounds, Adult Child and Smile, among other things.

Interesting! Live solo performance of Adult/Child - I'm still waiting for that, patiently. :)


Title: Re: David Leaf
Post by: Steve Latshaw on May 25, 2016, 06:37:46 AM
<<Don't you mean 1988?>>

No. 


Title: Re: David Leaf
Post by: HeyJude on May 25, 2016, 06:53:03 AM
<<That is indeed fascinating. Did the list by any chance involve BW finishing Smile as a solo artist?>>

Leaf talks about Brian being allowed to record and release whatever he wants, regardless of standard commercial expectations, and among other things, live solo performances of Pet Sounds, Adult Child and Smile, among other things.
Unfortunately, IMO, Brian has NOT been allowed to record and release what he wants, because someone is always pushing their vision of what they think will sell - for example, the AC sound of NPP. It seems there is always someone involved that is pushing that agenda - "we gotta make something that can get airplay, something to appeal to _____________ demographic", instead of just letting Brian follow his muse. So the albums come out, they don't sell, because radio stations don't play new music by 60-70 something musicians; Brian does a few tv appearances playing some of the new stuff; a few songs are added to the setlists for that years tour; and then the following year, the new stuff is gone and it's back to all oldies, until there is another new album to push. Is this really what Brian wants, just cranking out product because it is expected of, and touring year after year, playing those old songs we used to abuse the Beach Boys for playing?

Other people certainly sometimes have a stronger hand in some of Brian's albums; I'd certainly love to see a true "Love You" esque "Brian solo" album with him singing and playing everything and sounding less polished.

But the trajectory you describe above (new album, TV appearances, no radio airplay, new album songs dropped from the setlist by the next tour, etc.) is common for people from Brian's era who are still putting new stuff out. The same thing is true of McCartney. That type of typical trajectory for a new album project is going to be true regardless of the quality of a Brian album or whether he does it totally "pure" with nobody else's input, or if he has a producer he's working with. Unless he had some sort of Johnny Cash/Rick Rubin sort of career resurgence and reinvention anyway.

In some cases, it's a choice between what product we get, and nothing. McCartney's solo albums have been spotty, but I go with it, because I think the point is to keep creating. Some stuff is more self-indulgent (McCartney's "Fireman" stuff, the classical pieces, techno/dance remixes, etc.), other stuff is a bit rote, some has a stronger producer hand (Nigel Godrich). Same with Brian. The Gershwin thing was a pet project of his. The Disney thing was more cookie cutter. TLOS had a strong stamp of a co-writer that didn't sound very Brian-like to me. "Smile" was obviously very Brian, albeit in a 2000s context. Live albums, live DVDs and Blurays. NPP is an odd duck a bit, a lot of different stuff going on. But he's still creating, and I think *that* part of it is still good.

Maybe nobody around Brian thinks a "solo Brian at a piano" album (or some other wholly Brian project with no other strong hand) is a good idea, I don't know. But I don't think Brian is strongly inclined to do something like that either. I think he likes and wants the collaborators (whether writing or producing or whatever) around him, so that's the product we're going to get.

I certainly hope Brian's agent and Brian himself come around to doing a super quirky, stripped-down, "all-Brian" project, though. I'd be happy with even a "Hotel Tape" sort of scenario, just perhaps more formed and structured (and obviously without other guys there). I'd love to see him just pick out a dozen songs, play them on piano a bunch of times by himself, and put that out. New songs, covers, whatever.


Title: Re: David Leaf
Post by: Lonely Summer on May 25, 2016, 06:18:41 PM
My point was, if the albums are only going to sell to us diehard fans, then why not just let Brian run loose in the studio? I'd like to hear what he would come up with without being pushed in a particular direction. Instead of thinking "if we bring in guest stars, we'll get a hit" or  "if we put out a really polished, AC type album we'll get a hit". Just let Brian create - as he was doing with Andy circa 1995.


Title: Re: David Leaf
Post by: Jim V. on May 26, 2016, 11:43:11 AM
TLOS had a strong stamp of a co-writer that didn't sound very Brian-like to me.

You know, I'm glad somebody said it. A reasonable chunk of TLOS, while really nice, didn't sound like Brian to me. And I'm not just kicking Scott Bennett while he's down cuz of the whole rape thing. It just seems like TLOS got this rep as this ultimate BW album beyond his other solo stuff, and I kinda don't get it.


Title: Re: David Leaf
Post by: mikeddonn on May 26, 2016, 04:24:09 PM
TLOS had a strong stamp of a co-writer that didn't sound very Brian-like to me.

You know, I'm glad somebody said it. A reasonable chunk of TLOS, while really nice, didn't sound like Brian to me. And I'm not just kicking Scott Bennett while he's down cuz of the whole rape thing. It just seems like TLOS got this rep as this ultimate BW album beyond his other solo stuff, and I kinda don't get it.

I also agree Jim.  I still remember hearing it for the first time and thinking it was someone trying to make it sound like a Brian Wilson production rather than Brian himself.  Some enjoyable songs though, and Morning Beat sounds like a Brian production.


Title: Re: David Leaf
Post by: Lonely Summer on May 26, 2016, 06:30:16 PM
TLOS had a strong stamp of a co-writer that didn't sound very Brian-like to me.

You know, I'm glad somebody said it. A reasonable chunk of TLOS, while really nice, didn't sound like Brian to me. And I'm not just kicking Scott Bennett while he's down cuz of the whole rape thing. It just seems like TLOS got this rep as this ultimate BW album beyond his other solo stuff, and I kinda don't get it.

I also agree Jim.  I still remember hearing it for the first time and thinking it was someone trying to make it sound like a Brian Wilson production rather than Brian himself.  Some enjoyable songs though, and Morning Beat sounds like a Brian production.
It probably isn't pure BW, but it's still the second best solo album he's done - after BW88; unless we count Orange Crate Art, which he didn't write ANY of. I'm more confident in Brian's singing ability these days than his songwriting and production abilities.


Title: Re: David Leaf
Post by: Smilin Ed H on May 27, 2016, 07:19:58 AM
I enjoy about four tracks from it - about the same as NPP and Imagination and slightly more than GIOMH, though the arrangements and production there rendered good songs almost unlistenable. Production aside, I still really like 88. All of it.


Title: Re: David Leaf
Post by: Lonely Summer on May 27, 2016, 04:52:39 PM
I enjoy about four tracks from it - about the same as NPP and Imagination and slightly more than GIOMH, though the arrangements and production there rendered good songs almost unlistenable. Production aside, I still really like 88. All of it.
I know we're not supposed to say anything good about Landy here, but it seems like he really got Brian energized about writing and recording again in the 80's. 2 solo albums plus a bunch of tracks doled out on singles, soundtracks, etc; and most of it was high quality.


Title: Re: David Leaf
Post by: Pablo. on May 29, 2016, 01:42:37 PM
TLOS had a strong stamp of a co-writer that didn't sound very Brian-like to me.

You know, I'm glad somebody said it. A reasonable chunk of TLOS, while really nice, didn't sound like Brian to me. And I'm not just kicking Scott Bennett while he's down cuz of the whole rape thing. It just seems like TLOS got this rep as this ultimate BW album beyond his other solo stuff, and I kinda don't get it.

I also agree Jim.  I still remember hearing it for the first time and thinking it was someone trying to make it sound like a Brian Wilson production rather than Brian himself.  Some enjoyable songs though, and Morning Beat sounds like a Brian production.

Like the ones written with Joe Thomas, the Scott Bennett co-writes (despite the more classic feel of TLOS production) many times have chord changes that are very un-Brian. IMHO, Andy Paley was the best in composing with Brian songs that sounded like Brian.


Title: Re: David Leaf
Post by: mikeddonn on May 29, 2016, 04:12:24 PM
TLOS had a strong stamp of a co-writer that didn't sound very Brian-like to me.

You know, I'm glad somebody said it. A reasonable chunk of TLOS, while really nice, didn't sound like Brian to me. And I'm not just kicking Scott Bennett while he's down cuz of the whole rape thing. It just seems like TLOS got this rep as this ultimate BW album beyond his other solo stuff, and I kinda don't get it.

I also agree Jim.  I still remember hearing it for the first time and thinking it was someone trying to make it sound like a Brian Wilson production rather than Brian himself.  Some enjoyable songs though, and Morning Beat sounds like a Brian production.

Like the ones written with Joe Thomas, the Scott Bennett co-writes (despite the more classic feel of TLOS production) many times have chord changes that are very un-Brian. IMHO, Andy Paley was the best in composing with Brian songs that sounded like Brian.

I agree about the chord progressions.  That's why I said they were trying to sound like Brian.  But they didn't succeed which is probably why I was a little taken aback when I heard it.  GIOMH sounded like Brian but not everyone likes that one!

The Paley sessions yielded some decent stuff like In My Moondreams and Getting In Over My Head but a lot of it was nothing special IMHO.


Title: Re: David Leaf
Post by: CenturyDeprived on May 29, 2016, 05:55:56 PM
TLOS had a strong stamp of a co-writer that didn't sound very Brian-like to me.

You know, I'm glad somebody said it. A reasonable chunk of TLOS, while really nice, didn't sound like Brian to me. And I'm not just kicking Scott Bennett while he's down cuz of the whole rape thing. It just seems like TLOS got this rep as this ultimate BW album beyond his other solo stuff, and I kinda don't get it.

I also agree Jim.  I still remember hearing it for the first time and thinking it was someone trying to make it sound like a Brian Wilson production rather than Brian himself.  Some enjoyable songs though, and Morning Beat sounds like a Brian production.

Like the ones written with Joe Thomas, the Scott Bennett co-writes (despite the more classic feel of TLOS production) many times have chord changes that are very un-Brian. IMHO, Andy Paley was the best in composing with Brian songs that sounded like Brian.

I agree about the chord progressions.  That's why I said they were trying to sound like Brian.  But they didn't succeed which is probably why I was a little taken aback when I heard it.  GIOMH sounded like Brian but not everyone likes that one!

The Paley sessions yielded some decent stuff like In My Moondreams and Getting In Over My Head but a lot of it was nothing special IMHO.

Mikedonn and Pablo - I'm curious, what parts/chord changes on the TLOS album seem un-Brian like to you? IMO, the most un-Brian like chord change to my ears on a BW album is the nylon guitar chord change on "Cry" just before the first verse lyrics kick in.


Title: Re: David Leaf
Post by: Charles LePage @ ComicList on May 29, 2016, 05:58:09 PM
My point was, if the albums are only going to sell to us diehard fans, then why not just let Brian run loose in the studio? I'd like to hear what he would come up with without being pushed in a particular direction. Instead of thinking "if we bring in guest stars, we'll get a hit" or  "if we put out a really polished, AC type album we'll get a hit". Just let Brian create - as he was doing with Andy circa 1995.

There are different ways for an artist and their inner circles to manage the twilight years of the artist's career.

Bruce Springsteen, for instance, is probably never going to have Born In The USA or Born To Run sales again.  But he's catering to his large and devoted audience by giving them spectacular concerts which are recorded and sold directly to those fans, as well as new albums and well done repackages of older albums.

Brian Wilson's approach appears to me to be more directed to building a legacy and body of work that will largely benefit his survivors when the sad day comes that we lose him.  Yes, there's plenty for his fan base too, especially the concerts.  But sometimes the new albums and the overall handling of his career feels more like a musical 401K for his immediate family than a love letter to his fans.


Title: Re: David Leaf
Post by: Cam Mott on May 29, 2016, 06:18:47 PM
My point was, if the albums are only going to sell to us diehard fans, then why not just let Brian run loose in the studio? I'd like to hear what he would come up with without being pushed in a particular direction. Instead of thinking "if we bring in guest stars, we'll get a hit" or  "if we put out a really polished, AC type album we'll get a hit". Just let Brian create - as he was doing with Andy circa 1995.

There are different ways for an artist and their inner circles to manage the twilight years of the artist's career.

Bruce Springsteen, for instance, is probably never going to have Born In The USA or Born To Run sales again.  But he's catering to his large and devoted audience by giving them spectacular concerts which are recorded and sold directly to those fans, as well as new albums and well done repackages of older albums.

Brian Wilson's approach appears to me to be more directed to building a legacy and body of work that will largely benefit his survivors when the sad day comes that we lose him.  Yes, there's plenty for his fan base too, especially the concerts.  But sometimes the new albums and the overall handling of his career feels more like a musical 401K for his immediate family than a love letter to his fans.

God bless him, I hope it is.


Title: Re: David Leaf
Post by: Charles LePage @ ComicList on May 29, 2016, 06:47:16 PM
My point was, if the albums are only going to sell to us diehard fans, then why not just let Brian run loose in the studio? I'd like to hear what he would come up with without being pushed in a particular direction. Instead of thinking "if we bring in guest stars, we'll get a hit" or  "if we put out a really polished, AC type album we'll get a hit". Just let Brian create - as he was doing with Andy circa 1995.

There are different ways for an artist and their inner circles to manage the twilight years of the artist's career.

Bruce Springsteen, for instance, is probably never going to have Born In The USA or Born To Run sales again.  But he's catering to his large and devoted audience by giving them spectacular concerts which are recorded and sold directly to those fans, as well as new albums and well done repackages of older albums.

Brian Wilson's approach appears to me to be more directed to building a legacy and body of work that will largely benefit his survivors when the sad day comes that we lose him.  Yes, there's plenty for his fan base too, especially the concerts.  But sometimes the new albums and the overall handling of his career feels more like a musical 401K for his immediate family than a love letter to his fans.

God bless him, I hope it is.

Hope what is?


Title: Re: David Leaf
Post by: Cam Mott on May 29, 2016, 07:26:04 PM
A musical 401K for his family.


Title: Re: David Leaf
Post by: Charles LePage @ ComicList on May 30, 2016, 04:18:59 AM
A musical 401K for his family.

Ah, okay.  Nothing wrong with Brian doing that for his current family.  Sometimes we forget that these aren't just artistic endeavors, they are businesses and machines that are going to keep chugging along, long after the artist is gone.


Title: Re: David Leaf
Post by: Lonely Summer on May 30, 2016, 12:29:25 PM
A musical 401K for his family.

Ah, okay.  Nothing wrong with Brian doing that for his current family.  Sometimes we forget that these aren't just artistic endeavors, they are businesses and machines that are going to keep chugging along, long after the artist is gone.
  I can't imagine that Brian's kids will be hurting - the Beach Boys catalog keeps selling, year after year, the hit songs from the glory years 1963-66 have proven to be timeless.


Title: Re: David Leaf
Post by: mikeddonn on May 30, 2016, 12:31:39 PM
Yes, I don't think the later stuff will make them much!  ;D


Title: Re: David Leaf
Post by: Charles LePage @ ComicList on May 30, 2016, 01:04:45 PM
Yes, I don't think the later stuff will make them much!  ;D

To varying degrees, the Beach Boys profits are shared by the Beach Boys.  Brian Wilson's solo career and his catalogue will be managed solely by Melinda Wilson once he is gone.  Less money, yes, but no one to answer to, and one whole pie instead of a piece of a larger pie.  It has its benefits depending on how you look at it.


Title: Re: David Leaf
Post by: Cam Mott on May 30, 2016, 01:56:20 PM
Yes, I don't think the later stuff will make them much!  ;D

I would be very happy with just what the later stuff will make.  :p