The Smiley Smile Message Board

I know this has been discussed here, and on other boards, but Ultimate Classic Rock also thinks Bruce Johnston was snubbed by the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame

http://ultimateclassicrock.com/rock-hall-snubs/#photogallery-1=1

Bruce missed some key foundational moments with the Sand Pail Sailors.  Mind you he was THERE from Summer Days and Pet Sounds [and Party...and SMiLE etc].  But he and Jack Riley didn't see eye to eye, as the story goes, so he missed THAT important early 70s era too.

That said...during phase one of the Beach Boys various and copious claims to fame Bruce did some neat stuff with Terry Melcher including big successes with the Rip Chords.  And while away from the group in that 70s time-frame he did compose/write a Grammy Award winner.  I'd have to say...all in all...he should be IN there as a Beach Boy.  But the hall is what it is...an entity clamoring to be recognized as being valid.  So far?  Not so much.  And that is entirely their own doing.

Or maybe it was THOSE shorts?

.....or producing that awful and overly long Here Comes the Night disco thing. 

Bruce was there at the beginning of the Rieley era, and contributed his signature BB song, Disney Girls, to Surf's Up.  But, I couldn't imagine a Bruce number fitting in on CATP or Holland.  Speaking of which, you can make an argument for Blondie and Ricky being in the HOF too. 

Add Some - the shorts thing is a joke. They all wore shorts that were like tennis shorts, even in the NBA! Check out the teams from those days.  It was the style in that era.  

But, I think that the HoF is just rock and roll politics and the only game in town.  There are a lot of people who belong in there but it is political and biased.  Johnston's involvement goes back way before I became interested as a 2nd generation fan in the mid 60's, so I will defer to someone who knows the late 50's-early 60's.  They lived it and they know way more than I.   ;)

Bruce was still a Beach Boy after the release of Carl & the Passions. He sings on a couple tunes. He is very audible on Marcella. He actually toured on the first leg of the 1972 Spring tour. I saw them at the Philadelphia Spectrum. All seven of them: Carl, Dennis, Mike, Al, Bruce, Blondie & Ricky.

drbeachboy - And did you see Toni Tenille (and the Captain?)   ;)

To be honest, I don't remember. Back then I didn't even know who Toni & Darryl were to even take notice of the supporting musicians.

EDIT: OSD might remember. I think he said he attended that show too. I know we both attended the Summer 1969 show on the Steel Pier in Atlantic City (my first show seeing them).

drbeachboy - I bet OSD would remember seeing a girl on the stage!  :lol

I saw them at a college during the spring of 1972.  Daryl had been around since late 1967.

The R&R HOF is joke.

How does Timothy B Schmit get in as an Eagle while Bruce does not.

BTW,  TBS would have been a great addition to the touring band following the Eagles break up.

I don't remember them being at Steel Pier, but they were at the Spectrum. I took pictures of The Captain and Dennis at the piano she played during the show. Dennis was nice enough to strike a pose for us which allowed The Captain to be in the picture as well. By the way, Toni was a very attractive woman.

The fact that Bruce isn't part of the HOF induction isn't likely any personal snub, it's just emblematic of the corrupt, weird, arbitrary, political nature of the R&F HOF. That the "institution" is so far beyond a joke yet artists still mostly show up (both to induct and to be inducted) continues to befuddle me.

I used the example before of the new bass player in Metallica (Trujillo) that had joined the band only a few years before their induction yet was included in the induction (despite at that point having done very little if anything with the band in the studio) to point out the fact that of course Bruce should have been included, as should David Marks for his key role early on. Certainly back in 1988, prior to resurfacing and Jon Stebbins helping bring him to the fore, Marks was an even longer shot than Bruce was.

A few people have made pointed speeches at ceremonies, but often even those aren't really targeted pointedly at the corrupt nature of the organization, but instead are often just weird anomalies (Mike's infamous speech), or sour grapes about the band in question (e.g. Jeff Beck and the Yardbirds). I believe Steve Miller recently actually railed against the HOF at his induction ceremony, a rare case indeed.

I would guess, given the more respected nature of the BBs output now by the "rock press" compared to 1988, including Bruce's prominent role in the PS and Smile vocal sessions, if the BBs were inducted now, Bruce would probably stand a good chance of being included, and perhaps Dave as well.

OSD - I knew you would not miss Toni!  :lol

filled...I was joking 'bout dem shorts too. 
kds...Carl was also responsible for HCTN being discofied/discofried and HE'S 'in'.

I was joking about the HCTN.

Besides, disco acts have gotten into the Hall before much more deserving acts such as The Moody Blues, Yes, The Cars, Thin Lizzy, Blue Oyster Cult...you know, rock bands. 

I've no doubt that the stooges who voted The Boys in way back when probably just thought that Bruce was "Brian's fill in guy."

Sorry, I thought it was you who I was posting with a year or two ago. I had mentioned that as we were heading up Rt. 9 from Wildwood and that there was a billboard sign that advertised "Carl Wilson and The Beach Boys". The show was in a small setting with no chairs. Everyone in attendance had to stand for the entire show. Quite good too. They had just released Break Away a week or so before.

Doug Yule got snubbed from the Velvet Underground induction.  Stupid.

I was at both Steel Pier Shows (68 & 60). I remember the CATP sign. To Be clear, I was talking about the Capt. and Tenille at the Spectrum show in 72.

The day the Carpenters are inducted is the day I'll agree that Bruce should be too... but... the man is as much a rocker as Mitch McConnell.

I'd vote for Carpenters if I got a chance. It's not really a "rock and roll" HOF, it's a pop music hall. They have inducted rappers, sensitive singer/songwriters, r 'n' b acts, all kinds of stuff that isn't, strictly speaking, "rock and roll".  So sure, induct Karen and Richard. And Bruce.

How do they get Bruce in? Can he be added onto the Beach Boys inductee list?
Take 'Teen Beat, Ripchords, B&T, Saggitarius, His participation on The Wall, to name but a few. Stir it in with his longtime membership in the Beach Boys and nobody should argue against him being in there.

I don't know of any instance where the RNRHOF included a member of a band that was inducted, long after said band's induction. 

The snub of guys like Bruce Johnston, Ronnie James Dio, and others from this list goes to further prove that the RNRHOF is a joke.

First off, I am somewhat jealous of OSD and drbeachboy having seen that lineup (incl. both Bruce and Blondie and Ricky). Very cool.

Second, I think Bruce deserves to be in as part of the band because he was a part of so much of their great output.

But third, I think it's mostly irrelevant. The complaint commonly made about the RnR HoF is along the lines of:

But I don't see how it could be anything but biased (or subjective). Unless it is based on something like album sales or chart position--at which point people would complain that it panders to the lowest common denominator and leaves out the critically acclaimed types like VU, Zappa, etc.--there's just not way to be objective. And the borders of rock and roll are blurry even if we have an objective measurement like sales. So once it's inherently subjective, it's going to be inherently political or biased.

I think the best way to approach the RnR HoF and things like it is to ignore it entirely.

Captain,

I think you nailed one of the more frustrating things about the RNRHOF.  It's the Wild West, there are no rules.

Album sales?  Where is Def Leppard, Journey, Boston, etc. 

Influence?  Yes is still absent.  Judas Priest.  etc.

Hell, you don't even need to a part of Rock and Roll to be in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. 

Never thought I would see those 2 names lumped together.

  Timothy B Schmidt joined The Eagles for the recording of THE LONG RUN. Their original run was damn near over. He has participated in all subsequent Eagle activities.

  Ron Wood joined The Rolling Stones around the time of BLACK & BLUE in 1976. He has been in the band ever since.

  Bruce Johnston was in The Beach Boys from "California Girls" thru CARL AND THE PASSIONS, then from L.A. onward to the present day.

  Schmidt and Wood are in the R&R HoF but Johnston is not. Why? Ask Jann Wenner.

Bruce should certainly be in there. Josh Klinghoffer from the Red Hot Chili Peppers was chosen, at the age of 31, and the guy had participated in one album (their lowest seller since their debut, for what that is worth). No disrespect to the guy, I would rather have more people put in than left out, but if he's in, plenty more should have made it in, including Bruce.

Perhaps Carl didn't want him in, same as the Ten Years of Harmony center photo.  Carl did not recognize Bruce as a Beach Boy in the way that others were Beach Boys.

  Good point. Carl seemed to tolerate Bruce but that is all.

Has anyone ever tried asking Bruce how he feels about this?

  And risk being pistol whipped? Not me.  :lol

Me too. University of Missouri Field House on a April Saturday afternoon. Quite intimate that concert was. One of the best.

I had never heard this before.

I hadn't heard of this either.  But had been wondering before about how Bruce was viewed by other band members.  Wasn't there a plan to replace Bruce with Billy Hinsche in 1969?  Wasn't that Carl's doing?  Can't remember how the exact part went where I read this. 

Why would Bruce be simply ousted at that stage?  Was it thought that he only had a foot in the BBs camp and was probably going on to try a solo career, anyway?  Did Bruce know about a planned ousting or was it all a secret/conspiracy?

I always wondered this myself. I'm thinking Billy Hinshe could spread some light on this, as well as the band's opinion of Bruce at that time.

Carl specifically chose to not use a photo including Bruce on the Ten Years gatefold, when the studio offered to edit him in.  Carl said that Bruce could have a small "Mug shot" but Bruce declined.

For most of the early 70's Bruce was responsible for many tie/null votes when things had become M, B, A vs The Brothers Wilson. I believe that was a big part as to why Jack Riley gave him the boot.

What's interesting about this story - and I'm not necessarily disagreeing with it, I've read it before - is that Carl wasn't even with the band at the time of the release of Ten Years Of Harmony and...Carl Wilson was choosing photos for Beach Boys' albums in 1981?

Bruce was at the March 1972 Philadelphia show but was gone by the time of the April 15 1972 Missouri show

I seem to remember reading in BBFUN that he assisted with the compilation in some way, but I don't recall if it was remastering/ remixing, track selection or what.

Did Bruce have a vote?

Well Carl was with the band through 1980 and performed with them on their February 1981 tour so it depends when the cover was designed.

If I was Bruce, I might be disappointed I'm not listed in the hall. However, I've been in the Beach Boys for almost 50 years now, and my membership in this band wouldn't suddenly become more legitimate because Jann Wenner and his team of drooling subordinates think I belong in their sacred place of worship. My face is on the album covers, my name is in the liner notes, my songs are on the albums. If anything, it just goes to show how lame that placards-with-names-on-them institution actually is. What's less rock 'n' roll than a glitzy, shiny place with glass display cases? Well, Bruce Johnston, of course. But that's not the point.

Who cares what it says in Cleveland? That guy's on Pet Sounds.

He was in contact with them later in 1981; just because he was on leave from the group doesn't mean he had no say in what they released. I guess I will have to dig out the newsletter and quote it verbatim.

I could be mistake but I could swear I remember reading somewhere (and some time ago) that although Bruce wasn't inducted at the time of the original ceremony (and post-fast diatribe) that his non-induction was brought up later to the hall's powers-that-be and he was added then. If this is true, I suppose that means he's listed with the others in the exhibit and was also given his own little statue thing from the hall.

As for the Cleveland Hall's inacuracies, I suggest those here who can access Facebook to check out https://www.facebook.com/raymanrockhall/

The lack of artist descriptions and recent updates stems from the same ongoing disasters in my life that have kept me from posting much here and putting the finishing touches on my version of Smile.  As soon as this foot is healed...  :-\

You know, I actually bet Bruce cares a lot about it, and I'll tell you why...

This is the same guy that hasn't shut up for FORTY years about his Grammy for a Barry Manilow hit. I mean, seriously who gives a flying f*** about a Grammy? The Oscars on the other hand still have some cultural cache, but I feel like the Grammys are just kind of looked at as nothing of any real importance. Yet Juice Brohnston always manages to bring up two facts in seemingly every interview: "hey, I won a Grammy!" and "the reason for the great sound of The Beach Boys is the music of Brian Wilson, and don't you forget it those amazing summertime lyrics of Mike Love*."



*I like Bruce. I dig a lot of his early music. I own a copy each of Surfers' Pajama Party, The Best of Bruce & Terry, The Hot Doggers' Surfin' USA and the very rare Bruce Johnston compilation Tough Themes all on CD. However, the way he goes out of his way to always credit his boss Doctor Love as being equals with Brian Wilson. I don't deny Mike Love played a very big part in The Beach Boys success, probably second most to Brian. But regardless, Bruce's sh*t is sooooo heavy handed. And as for the Grammy, who gives a sh*t again?

If I ever have the chance to meet Bruce, my first words to him will be "you won a Grammy! you won a Grammy!" (this is for the Carl fans here)  ;D

I largely agree with your sentiments, sweetdudejim.

Does anyone have much of a timeline for when Bruce became Mike's biggest cheerleader? I have witnessed many, many interviews since the M&B era where Bruce *goes out of his way* to praise Mike's role in the band, conspicuously making numerous efforts to do so... but I wonder, did this type of public praise from Bruce ever happen during Carl's or Denny's lifetimes?

I'm not doubting that Bruce feels these things he says sincerely, but it would seem like this praise started in earnest post-1998, almost like a concerted effort/longterm campaign to make Mike's role seem bigger. Did Bruce suddenly realize that Mike was some sort of "underdog", or was this somewhat of a planned thing between the two guys? I ask because I would be surprised if post-1998, Bruce and Mike never had a conversation about the subject. I would think Mike must be appreciative, because it's not like any other of the Boys praise Mike to the extent that Bruce does.

I don't know how many tie votes Bruce was breaking in the JR era.  The Mike/Al vs. Wilson differences surfaced more mid-late 70s after Bruce left.  Those sides weren't exact earlier on. Example: Carl and Dennis fighting over sequencing on Surfs Up.

  Bruce Johnston was a member of The Beach Boys for Summer Days and Summer Nights, Pet Sounds, Smile/Smiley Smile, Wild Honey, Friends, Sunflower and Surf's Up. That is a Hall of Fame run. A constant touring presence 1979 onward; has he ever missed a show in that span? Not many.

  "Disney Girls" is an all-time standard worthy of the great American songbook. Thanks to Bruce, it was introduced by The Beach Boys on one of their very best albums.

 If Ron Wood and Timothy B Schmidt are worthy - and I agree they are - then so is Bruce Johnston. When one factors in his pre-Beach Boys career, his worthiness becomes even more obvious. But wait - Jann Wenner hates surf music.  >:(

Bruce might also be the least "hip" member of The Beach Boys.  I can't imagine Jann Wenner and his merry band of hipsters listening to Disney Girls, unless they did so ironicallly. 

It's called job security. Myke luHvs to fire people at the drop of his hat and br00th is the king of all brown nosers.  :-D

It all comes from an angry guy with a huge ego. ::)

Hang On To Your Ego must've been about Mike   :lol

Hence the Mike Love lyrics freakout to BW! :lol        I know there's an answer (to changing the lyrics)

:lol

No doubt about it in the back of my mind and the front for that matter.

  I agree, Bruce isn't hip at all. But "Disney Girls" will endure for the best of reasons - it's a classic. Given recent events and trending current public perception, history's eventual judgement of Wenner is far less secure. My prediction is that Wenner will be remembered as the antithesis of rock & roll.

 Wenner himself was inducted a few years ago as a nonperformer. He cited Buddy Knox's "Party Doll" as a key record in his discovery of rock & roll but wrongly identified the record as being by Buddy Holly. Complete schmuck.

I had heard this as well. And I remember some media from The Press Office, back when Bruce moved to Nashville, mentioning he was 'in'.

Bruce was at the induction ceremony and can be seen singing in footage of the jam session during I saw her standing there

I hope you're right. 

Wenner could listen to Wild Honey and the organ solo.

He reminds me of that old expression, "He who has the gold, rules."