The Smiley Smile Message Board

1) Given that Rubber Soul influenced the making of Pet Sounds, did Revolver and the Strawberry Fields/Penny Lane single affect Smile?

2) Paul's unveiling of Pepper tracks (during the Vegetables sessions?) is sometimes put foward as a factor in Brian's abandonment of the album. Has this been verified?

3) Did subsequent Beatles releases - MMT, Hey Jude, Abbey Road - influence Brian's work?

According to Catch a Wave when Brian heard Strawberry Fields on the radio he said to someone "they did it already.." as in they did what he was wanting to do on Smile.

Edit: I'm now doubting this was in the book.. I may have read it elsewhere. I've been doing a lot of reading about BW/Beach Boys recently.

I could see that.  Sorry Smile fans, but with the possible exception of Surf's Up (which wasn't fully completed until 1971), nothing on Smile compares with Strawberry Fields IMHO. 

There's surprisingly little to no mention of how Revolver - or Yesterday and Today - affected Brian.  We go straight from Rubber Soul to Pepper.  What did he think of Tomorrow Never Knows?

I always thought I could hear a little influence of For No One in Wonderful.

This was in the BWPS doc.

Brian and Michael Vosse were driving in the car and Strawberry Fields came on the radio, where they heard it for the first time.

Very possible that's where I picked it up as I had that on in the background the other week.

I was about to say that. Those two songs sound more similar than Wonderful and SLH.

When Hal Blaine plays a rock and roll drumbeat in the session tapes for the Grand Coulee Dam, it sounds a bit like Tomorrow Never Knows.

Totally. I have noticed that myself too (although according to Wikipedia, t's Jim Gordon on drums, not Hal).

I wonder if Jim had heard Tomorrow Never Knows before doing that session.

I would bet that Tomorrow Never Knows and the orchestral climax of A Day in the Life would have freaked Brian out. They're such noisy, intense pieces--especially the latter, which, if you've ever had the misfortune of enduring a panic attack, is an aural version of what that feels like. (The silverware scene in the movie felt like this too--a hard scene to watch.)

Did anyone else watch the silverware scene, where the sounds of forks/knives became increasingly rhythmic and percussive-sounding, and think that this was possibly a reference to a time where Brian got some of the ideas during the Smile and Smiley Smile era unusual scraping-sounding percussion sounds? Like on Vegetables for example?

Has anyone ever heard if Brian was aware of or flattered by "Here There and Everywhere" on Revolver. seeing as how it's inspired by John and Paul hearing Pet Sounds?

And off-topic, but if Brian was inspired to make Pet Sounds after hearing Rubber Soul which version did he hear? The U.S. version on Capitol or an early Parlophone pressing imported from England. Whenever I've heard Brian talk about Rubber Soul's cohesion and "how everything flowed", I kinda get the feeling he's talking about the American version which swapped out some U.K. tracks with U.K. Help leftovers to make it sound more like a folk-rock album. It would be a little ironic to think that Brian made an intensely personal album with a flow that was unknowingly inspired by a corporate hodgepodge put together by the suits at Capitol.

He heard the American version:

When you listened to RUBBER SOUL by the Beatles, was it the American version of the album or the British version?

Brian Wilson: The American.

http://earcandymag.com/brianwilson-2004.htm



Regarding Sgt Pepper, Brian had this to say about it:


Do you hear Smile on the Beatles' Sgt. Pepper's?

BW: Not at all, no.

You don’t hear Surf’s Up in Strawberry Fields and Penny Lane?
BW: No, no way.

Or your Fire in A Day in the Life?
BW: Oh, the big buildup—interesting.

And the end of Child Is the Father of the Man seems to have found its way into the beginning of Paul McCartney's Uncle Albert/Admiral Halsey.
BW: I’ll be darned. I never would have thought of that. Yeah, actually.

Could someone have shared Smile's tapes with the Beatles before Sgt. Pepper's was recorded or completed?
BW: Nah.

So you don't think the Beatles heard the Smile tapes before they recorded Sgt. Pepper’s?
BW: No, I don’t think so.

http://www.jazzwax.com/2011/10/interview-brian-wilson.html



And regarding Strawberry Fields Forever:

The story goes that when you first heard Strawberry Fields Forever you felt weakened by it. Has any song in the past ten years made you feel that way again?
BW: No, that's not true. It was a very weird record, but yeah, I liked it.

http://www.brianwilson.com/news/2014/1/29/brian-answers-fans-questions-in-live-qa

To mention another parallel with a different British band - ever since the '70s I've been struck by the way that the last part of Cabin Essence resembles that Syd Barrett/ Pink Floyd track The Scarecrow....which is about an object in a field, though since an Englishman wrote it, presumably not a cornfield.  But while the latter was recorded about four months after CE, CE wasn't released until long after The Scarecrow came out and no one in the UK heard CE until 20/20 that I know of. So I guess it's one of those great-minds-think-alike things.

How would it have been anything other than the American? Ive heard of some ignorant types saying the ONLY beatles albums that count were the UK ones but wouldn't that be disregarding history? I mean in the 5 years the beatles existed from their American debut thats what gave them their superstardom, George Martin transforming them into a presentable combo. And arguable or not those 3 albums (meet, rubber soul & revolver) was their peak output.

Even though the Beatles ended in 69 they were done as an actual band in aug.66, from then on they remained a studio group for the remainder of those 3 years. And I think it was very humble of the BBs to do simple primitive lp's like friends & 20/20 instead of a goshdarn excessive double lp like the white album.

Isn't there a quote from late 66 where Brian asks the interviewer if he's heard the new Beatles album (which would have been "Revolver"), and goes on to describe it as either spiritual or religious music?

It's hard not to hear the "Grand Coulie" section of Cabin Essence as a direct response to "Tomorrow Never Knows"..both are in C mixolydian, with a superimposed Bb over the drone, and swirling textures that evoke Asian music...if that wasn't a conscious nod I would be shocked!

Of tenuous relation, but years ago my band recorded a cover of "Tomorrow Never Knows" that incorporated the "Cabin Essence" arrangement as its basis, hence kind of a hybrid rendition...
http://ghostpal.bandcamp.com/track/tomorrow-never-knows

Different strokes. I'd say Cabin Essence, CIFOTM and the Elements blow it out of the water. Everything else on it is at least as good, according to my ears. In any case, one good song shouldnt be any reason to abandon a masterpiece. Imagine if all the other pioneers of psychedelic rock just threw in the towel upon hearing that song or GV? We'd have nothing. If that really was a factor, Brian made the wrong call.

Does anybody know if Brian has ever commented on any of the Beatles albums after Sgt. Pepper?  Seems to me that, particularly, side 2 of Abbey Road could have been pretty relate-able to him.  Did he merely tune the Fab 4 out after "the race" was lost?

Have you heard of a little song called Good Vibrations? Heroes and Villains? Cabin Essence? Wonderful? Wind Chimes? Sorry, Beatles fan, but IMO nothing in the entire Beatles catalog compares with SMiLE (or Pet Sounds for that matter). They tried but they couldn't keep up. I like both A Day in the Life and Strawberry Fields, but musically, they don't even come close.

 :brian :rock :love :thumbsup :hat

A Day in the Life and Strawberry Fields are artistically just as good as Surf's Up, and hit single -wise, they're even better.

But after those two, Beatles in -67 didn't produce anything as great as HV, Cabinessence or Wonderful.

When it comes to silly but enjoyable ditties (Vegatables, Lovely Rita), I'd say it's a tie. Although I do enjoy BB's songs more.

Ignorant type here - the UK releases are canonical because they are as the artist intended, not butchered by someone in an office 5000 miles away. Suppose EMI did that and gave us Pet Sounds minus the two instrumentals and plus "Devoted To You", "The Little Girl I Once Knew" and "Girl Don't Tell Me". You cool with that ? I'm not.

Good Vibrations is a great song, yes.  I love both bands.  But IMO, H&V, Cabinessence, and Wonderful are great songs, but not in the same ballpark as Day in the Life or Strawberry Fields.  I think Wind Chimes is on the same level as some of the Beatles album tracks from the late 60s. 

I would imagine the US versions of the albums really only hold water to those who grew up listening to the songs in that (albeit incorrect) sequence. 

Personally, I'll take the UK versions, as you pointed out, these are the intended versions released by The Beatles. 

Yes, but I do think kookadams has a point here. I agree that it was a shame that Capitol Records mangled up the Beatles artistic intentions in their mish-mashing of their pre-1967 albums. But nevertheless, those mishmashes shouldn't just be written off - after all, the American audience was larger than the British one. This was the way that the band was received in the 60s by millions of fans -- this was how the audience heard them, and these were the records that undeniably played a major role in the trajectory of 1960s music. So regardless of whether or not they are authentic, they are nevertheless important.

Well put, Shakey. And I rather enjoy the American Rubber Soul. Nice, folky vibe. Almost as good an album as its British counterpart.