The Smiley Smile Message Board

What if Endless Summer never happened? Without the nostalgia craze to boost their careers the Beach Boys had pretty much run out of steam. After Holland they had pretty much given up on recording. So what if they had broken up in 1974 and Holland had been the last Beach Boys album?

They would've at least went out on an upswing. Maybe not sales-wise, but as far as quality goes.

However, one must think about what would've happened to Brian. After all, the real impetus for getting him help was really to make money off of him due to the renewed interest ES brought. Without that, he might have died.

Or... Carl and Dennis may have joined up with him and helped him; Dennis might have been better off,too. I will say this...eventually Mike would've tried to get replacements for the Wilson brothers and toured as a nostalgia act. So really the same thing would've happened,only a lot sooner.

To me the main thing that separates the Beach Boys from all other rock groups, is that the Beach Boys would not break up, no matter what.

I think Brian and Dennis would not have gone downhill as badly, and I also think The Beach Boys would be held in the same esteem as The Beatles. I truly wish this would have happened

I think ES is one reason why they gave up on recording. If ES didn't happen, they would have recorded more albums.

That's how I feel. The Beach Boys carried on after it was no longer natural for them to be together. They forced it to go on I guess because they couldn't think of other ways to make money.

They actually recorded 6 more albums in that 10 year period; really the only long stretch without an album was between KTSA and BB85, and that was after Dennis died. I think it should read "...would have recorded better albums." Really, giving Brian the reigns for 15BO was a huge mistake.

Yep, you're right. "better" should be in there instead of "more". But you probably know what I meant

Why would the non-existence of "Endless Summer" have resulted in the Beach Boys having as good or better a reputation as the Beatles?  And why would they have recorded more and/or better selling albums minus ES?  I don't think either would be true.  It just gave them a longer life and a bigger audience than Sha Na Na.  If ES hadn't existed, Capitol would have issued some other greatest hits compilation, I'm sure, to capitalize on the nostalgia craze that peaked with "American Grafitti" and "Happy Days."  The Beach Boys already were building an audience as an oldies act prior to ES; that album built upon that.  And as Brian said in the mid-70s, Beach Boys albums of newer material weren't selling "diddly whomp."  ES was just marketing genius, and I'm sure none of the Beach Boys would have changed a thing about it, even Brian.  Apart from some tracks here and there and the ugly cover art, though even that worked.

The exisitence of Endless Summer wasn't what made problems it was the success. In 1973 their auidences were mainly college crowds by 1978 they were playing county fairs. Why? because of their image. Their past was respected in 1973 but  who they were currently was too. Ok they didn't sell to the tenn set anymore but why should they have been aiming for that anymore.  Holland, and Surf's Up sold quite well and I still recall the heartbreak of a fan who told me how much respect was lost by critics when they went into the oldies groove. It's when oldies became the focuss that they died, when they presented their whole career they were fabulous. The Nov 1993 shows how it could have and should have been. The real Beach Boys died with Murry.

Not necessarilly better selling, but better in terms of quality

No band from, what, 1962? survived.  I guess you could say the Stones did (not quite as early as the BB's though)... but really, by the early 70's, who was left still selling and doing well?

Plus; it was harder for the BB's to break up, because they were family.  I'd follow my family into nostalgia too instead of breaking up and doing our own things.

I think things would've played out very similar to what actually happened, except maybe three or four years later.

I can see all of them (Brian included) trying the solo album route. And the albums (other than Dennis's) would've tanked. I think the Beach Boys have proven that they are much stronger together than apart. Dennis was the only one who could "step away" from the group and make an artistic statement.

After a couple of years without Beach Boys' touring revenue and a big record contract, the guys would probably reunite. Alimony, child support, real estate, cars, girls, boats, and drugs are very expensive.

Do you ever get the feeling that if the group had a second chance to go back and do things differently...

I agree with most of your post, but absolutely not that statement. Brian couldn't make an artistic statement on his own? Pet Sounds was close enough to being one, and Smile would've been, too. Unless you mean at that particular time, in which case you MIGHT be right (but I still doubt it), I really think you're wrong.

I was referring to post 1974 - if Endless Summer never happened. You would've had a better argument if you countered with Love You, which is genius. But as a solo artist, I'm still waiting for Brian's artistic statement, unless it was "Christmasey"...

Mike would have released a Celebration-like solo album wich would have a #28 single on it. Carl apparently had no new songs between 1972 and 1979 anyway. He would probably work as a producer and have teh same personal problems he had with his divorce and drugs. Brian could have been pushed by his handlers to release a personal album, kinda like Love You album but without Carl's sweetening. It would probably sell fairly well and the "Brian's back" campaign would have been direcyed by David Leaf who wouldn't have to write a book to denounce teh "parasites". Al would do the same as he's doing now, nothing. Without the Beach Boys Santa Monica studio Denis would have to clean his act to complete a solo album renting professional studios and working with a budget. He didn't make it with Bamboo, but in 75-76 he was younger and could have pulled it off.

And then they would have reunited circa 1978 to tour and record, and nothing would change.

I couldn't imagine there being no Love You.

That was my question of you--overall, or just the time frame referenced. Post '74, (i.e. no E.S.) YEs, Love You is all well and good, but I'd actually point to some of the unreleased stuff from that same era. Half of Love You, half of Adult/Child would be my argument. Toss into Love You some things like Lines and Baseball and you kick the sh*t out of Dennis' solo material.  So says I.

I don't think the Beach Boys were playing the county fair circuit in 1978.  They were playing baseball stadiums, which is a heck of a lot more lucrative than the college crowd. 

Heresy on this board -- I think that Pacific Ocean Blue is a better album than Love You.  Deal with it.

Is the heresy that you think POB is better than Love You? Okay, I will deal with that heresy.

Double heresay. Love you is one my least faves and POB is one of the best. Also don't care about $$$ earned College groups are way more musically interesting then those who play after ninth inning. Nothing personal to anyone just my opinion.

It was in response to your comment that a carefully packaged version of songs from that period from Brian would walk all over Dennis' work.  I think that many here would agree.  I commit heresy:  POB blows away anything Brian did post-Endless Summer.

I knew what you meant, Jeff. I was just playing around. And I obviously don't agree.

"What I Really Want For Christmas" is Brian's best composition since "Til I Die."

Jeff I agree Dennis is the only one after 75 who I like consistently. However I do think Dennis was better circa 68-73 vocally but. P.O.B. is still great production wise and song wise.

AMEN!

I will say this Brian's last three LPs have the best production he's done since Spring.