The Smiley Smile Message Board

https://twitter.com/thedavidcrosby/status/572904529273860096

Did you ever work with Mike Love?

"Have not
Would not
Not a good person"

Ha ha ha

Funny that Neil Young basically said the same thing about Crosby recently on Howard Stern ;))

Crosby means it, Neil is just doing his CSNY drama as usual l.

Pot calling the kettle black?

Typical born-again sober guy talk on Crosby's part .....

"Oh, I was on crack back when I behaved like a total piece of shite, so it doesn't count"

Mike was totally sober when causing trouble and ripping off the BBs legacy. His only drug is his ego.

I think your self righteous non-stop negative judgement of Mike demonstrates a much bigger ego on your part than he could ever have.


At least Mike helped make good music along the way.

Mike is not having a good week.

Why on earth is Crosby getting asked about Mike Love and tweeting about Mike Love lately?

My guess is he's butt hurt over Neil's comments and is lashing out at an easy target.

It's always about deflecting blame from Mike on others.

At this point Mike could say the sky is green and red and someone one would try to rationalize it that he was correct or it was the sky's fault for being blue. Not much better or different in regards to Brian either but that always existed. The rationalization of everything Mike is still so baffling to me.

It's not even about Mike, but rather the hypocrisy behind MUCH of the criticism he gets.

He's answering a bunch of questions on Twitter, some sort of random question and answer session.

Just a few minutes later he was asked about the genius of Brian wilson, he called it "innocent, brilliant and inspiring".

He's obviously on team Brian, would fit in well on this Board.

Yeah, he would  >:D

Not every criticism is hypocritical about Mike or unfair.  There is a balance to be found but finding that balance on the board seems to be impossible.

well, maybe if the hypocritical part of it was dialed back a bit the relevant and reasonable criticism would be a bit easier to catch. Otherwise it's like how Rick Wakemen described Tales From Topographic Oceans as "wading through a cesspool to get to a water lily"

:thumbsup :thumbsup :thumbsup :thumbsup  And his crutch is TM which he hides behind to justify his wacko behavior traits which additional face painting won't have an effect on.

I'm sure ML must be devastated as his hopes of working with David Crosby vanish.  ::)

Considering what Terry Melcher has said about David Crosby it's certainly cause for concern when David Crosby says this about you

Well David was the most objectionable character Terry had ever met. As per Van Dyke Parks

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiwQF-NB4Ig&sns=em

and YOU talk about having a crutch!!!!!!  >:D

Well, not really. You use your own judgement to determine baseless hate from legitimate issues, same as with anything else in life. No there's not really some saint-like poster who is completely 100% unbiased but who'd expect there to be. Human beings are opinionated.

WTF??? myKe luHv is a bleeding hypocrite who's "religious doctrine" preaches peace, luHv and understanding. Even a Kohkohdope could see that the pointster can't conveniently hide behind a religion to justify his ego. ::)

I wonder how many musicians (famous, musical contemporaries from the 60s-on) would actually disagree with Crosby's statement. Either privately or publicly. Sadly, I'll bet not many. It's sorta like how you can count Bill Cosby's celebrity defenders on one or two hands, and about 50% of the defenders have something to gain (Cosby Show residuals $$) by defending him.

Mind you, I'm not trying to compare Love to Cosby, just stating that I unfortunately and very sadly don't think there are many big names who would come to Love's defense and refute Crosby's tweets. Wish it wasn't so.

Look at it this way. How many artists have had the luhvster guest on their albums. Kinda speakes for itself. :smokin

Hmmmm, well all we really know about you OSD is that you get off on dissing Mike Love each and every day ..... I wonder if you've lived a completely rosy and blemish free existence

From Wikipedia:

Charity[edit]
Mike Love has been a longtime supporter of environmental causes and was among speakers at the Earth Summit in Rio de Janeiro in 1992 and Earth Day 2000 on the Mall in Washington, DC. Love was instrumental in forming StarServe ("Students Taking Action and Responsibility to Serve") which enlisted high profile celebrities to inspire America's youth to help serve their communities. He also created the Love Foundation, which supports national environmental and educational initiatives. Love personally donated $100,000 to the American Red Cross to benefit the victims of Hurricane Katrina and helped the foundation raise an additional $250,000. He has served as a member of the Board of Directors of the Lake Tahoe School in Incline Village, Nevada, and was responsible for raising over $1 million to benefit the school. In 2010, Mike Love contributed to the Juvenile Diabetes Research Foundation's More Hope For The Holidays album with vocals on "Closing of the Year" as well as contributing his self-penned "Santa's Goin' To Kokomo". On the album he appears alongside Weezer, Brandi Carlile, and Creedence Clearwater Revisited. Proceeds benefit the Juvenile Diabetes Research Foundation.[17] He performed a benefit concert for the foundation for the Children of the Californias which raised one million dollars to support the expansion of three new surgical suites. During the 50th Reunion Tour Love alongside the Beach Boys partnered with Operation Smile to raise funds for those in need of cleft lip and palate repair surgeries. In May 2013, Love was recognised for his decades of investment in education and national service by being awarded City Year's "Seven Generations Award".[18]

My God! What an SOB

"Santa's Goin' To Kohkohmoe"??? Really????? Effin A, man!! :angry Self penned, huh? Brilliant stuff. And don't think he didn't write off the 100K. All of this reeks of a guilty conscious in light of the millions the greedster has in the bank-a mere pittance to be sure.

Keep ranting Pinder, someday you will convince somebody to be a mikolyte.

well, what have you contributed to society other than loads of bile spewed at a guy you don't know?

http://www.esquarterly.com/bellagio/guesting.html (http://www.esquarterly.com/bellagio/guesting.html)

Count 'em for yourself.  :-D

You mean it. Neil just hasn't picked your favorite hate subject.



Your drug is the hate of Mike. You must be an extremely (self-censoring due to not wanting to get banned) person to have to hate someone so badly that you can feel a good person in comparison.

I sourced that Bellagio 10452 page yesterday, checking to see if you had Brian credited for both tracks on Ryuichi Sakamoto's Beauty album.  You did.  Some people say they can't pick out his vocals on "We Love You" - I think he's buried deep in the vocal mix, but there.  It was an interesting project for him to be doing in 1989.

Don't care if either of them is "not a good person". Mike Love will forever be an ambivalent figure, that's his role in the BB universe. It's easy to dismiss his contributions if you choose to look at stuff like Santa's Goin' to Kokomo or Summer in Paradise and it's just as easy to appreciate and value his work if you choose to look at the early hit songs, Good Vibrations, Wild Honey, Big Sur, or his ability to maintain a somewhat corny yet mostly entertaining stage persona throughout the endless years of touring.

Looks like the luHvster's stock took a gigantic dump starting roughly two decades ago. Point proven. Your move.  :brow

Crosby calling out Love is like poop telling vomit it stinks.  The Cros has had multiple run-ins with the law and even spent a brief stint in prison.  Helluva singer though.

Yeah.  At this point Mike is who he is, and at this point in his career and this late stage of the game, it's kinda tired and pointless for fans to continue to rag on him.

Crosby cops to his misdeeds and indiscretions. And he will admit that he can be an arrogant asshole. Does Mike have that level of self-awareness?

Mike's biggest problem is his ego.  He's managed to keep himself together all these years though. 

*yawn*.  I guess I really feel stupid, but I have to ask who DJ M is...

Going back to the original post...I remember someone who was directly involved in the TNT Tribute to Brian in 2001....I won't name names, so I'll use a pseudonym...I'll just call him...Chocolate Shake Man...I heard him speak about the event literally a few days after it was recorded, and he shared a lot of backstage stories and stuff about the event.

One thing in particular that shocked the hell out of everybody who heard: Crosby was on time for every rehearsal, and actually was the ONLY one who was punctual!

And second...and he was at first hesitant to tell this story but then thought, ehh, it's okay, it's a funny story...said that during rehearsal when Cros was reciting his spiel, the script called for him to say something about "and his cousin Mike Love" --and he stopped the little spiel and said, "Do I have to say his name? I don't like him!" So the compromise was that the script was changed to say "his cousin Mike."

(An unofficial story I heard from someone else said it was more than just that...what he actually said was "Do I have to say his name? I never liked that @$$hole!....[laughter from the crew]....NOBODY liked him!!")

Lol! The second most objectionable character was Charles Manson!!!

Reading some of Crosby's other tweets, it looks like he calls it as he sees it-- meaning, that if he believes something to be true, he will just say it without sugar-coating. He also said he loves Joni Mitchell's music but called her "crazy." He said Kanye has no talent and that Phish doesn't "groove." (I think that was the word he used.)  So...he has his opinions. I wonder if there was a particular incident that he experienced caused him to form his opinion of Mike, or if he's just going by stories of Mike that we've all heard. Saying Mike is not a good person is stronger than just saying, "He's not very likable." 

All you need is Love...and our favorite band has him!

It is to Mike's credit if he supports environmental causes - however, it would be more to the point if he had fewer children. Nothing causes more environmental damage than too many people.

Wasn't his contribution to that track a big, honkin' loud wall of Brians? https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=32eOECAT5E0

Starts around 1:56.

Not here to pile on.  Doesn't look like the gang needs any more BANG...but I did count 'em...well let me rephrase that... I did LOOK at 'em.  Not many...at least compared to Brian and obviously Carl.  Mostly Mike did, it seems, more for Jan and Dean...and Dean than for anyone else.  And adding something of his own to a compilation disc?  Does that really qualify?  Just wondering.

Question Andrew???  Your extensive and most assuredly impressive list makes no mention of Bruce Johnston and his various contributuions to this that and the next thing...including SOME songs which you've listed.  Any reason why Bruce isn't included?  Just askin'. :hat

And how would you like him to achieve that feat? Why even bring that into the mix. His youngest is already in her late teens.

Maybe Mike should tweet Crosby and ask why Roger McGuinn isn't exactly breaking down his door trying to get a Byrds reunion going with him?

I know this is sacrilegious for many, but I don't really get Crosby, musically. Never have. I'm not saying this in defence of the Lovester who does seem to have been a considerable dick over the years, but he co-wrote some great songs. I don't get the whole CSN stuff at all. Good voices in search of good material.

I dunno.  Deja Vu is a pretty fine collection of great material...and performances.

He should ask him. Has Mike ever taken the bait and started publicly bickering with anyone other than one (or more) of the BBs themselves? It's high time he spread the wealth and start some back-and-forth feuds with other non BB musicians.

Well there was that R&RHOF speech thing.....

Well, yeah. That was where Mike randomly started insulting people, unprompted (in that nobody sh*t-talked him to cause him to go off on his rant).

But I was talking about where a celebrity publicly insulted Mike, and then Mike took the bait and publicly defended himself and then threw an insult back. I don't think that's happened yet, though I could be wrong.

What alternate universe are you living in where there are hoards of people rushing to defend Mike Love?  

For evidence, let me show you... oh... post 1 in this thread.  Not only are people not trying to excuse things he's done, we're living in a time where people are asking random strangers who don't know Mike what they think of Mike., and then the random stranger makes a negative comment about Mike (who he says he doesn't know)....

After all that happens, another random stranger who's never met Mike goes on a message board and makes a thread about it, echoing the negative comments the other random stranger made about Mike.

After *THAT* happens, You, (another random stranger who's never met Mike) start complaining that too many people are being nice to Mike.  

  

I've been in Mikes company [up close and personal] 4 times that I can recall.  Other times we were in close proximity but did not actaully come face to face in order to speak with one another backstage/side stage.  Never once was he rude.  Once he was too busy to say hello.  Not a problem.  Twice he was pleasant enough.  Once he was quite warm and friendly.

THAT is WAY different than spending REAL time with him.  As such to suggest I know Mike would be bullshit.  But one on one...I have no problem with him personally.  I DO expect an invitation to dinner when I see him next though...or we're DONE. ;)

How times have changed eh?  :lol

He's a lot more obvious on the original mix. Personally, speaking, I don't hear him on either "Chockabec" or the John/Russell song. At. All.

Hey, at least Crosby must have talked once or twice to Mike, even if decades ago. It's way better than sitting behind a computer speeling hatred against someone you never met on a daily basis.

Beg to differ... pretty patchy collection of essentially solo tracks.

I'd suggest then that you and I not trade ears. :lol 

Left you a question in this thread back a page or two Andrew...regarding the AGD list of songs that Beach Boys contributed to.  Thanks.

One more...Grayham?

Oh snap, add some laid down the challenge! :lol

Sure - too bloody many. But... maybe I should. He's included in the Guesting section when he was in the band (1965-72, 1978-date).

I really don't care to join in the Mike debate but both Crosby and Love have a big hand in some of, in my opinion, the greatest albums made to date. Pet Sounds, Today, Friends, (insert your favourite BB's album), Younger than Yesterday, Notorious Byrd Brothers, Crosby Stills Nash, Deja Vu, Wind on the Water. Both are beyond having their musical legacy questioned. Crosby is still producing the goods, his latest is a fine album.

I'm rather partial to If Only I Could Remember My Name.

I'm with you. Boy he can stack those vocals.

CSN(Y) do nothing for me, but strangely, I think Crosby's first solo album is ace and I love the Crosby/Nash stuff and Still's solo albums/Manassas.

Byrds, with and without Crosby are the shiznit!

I recall the Byrds as a whole didn't care for Terry.  the animosity may go WAY back.

yeah but they (or McGuinn and 3 others who had never worked with Melcher before) rehired him in as a producer in 1969 and the sales went way up.

Their very first album...after PreFlyte...set the course...The 2nd album cemented it.  They didn't "care for" Terry?  They're idiots.  Terry made the Rip Chords.  Terry MADE Paul Revere and the Raiders.  Terry MADE the Byrds.

[and then there's Kokomo and the Beach Boys.  Well...3 outta 4 ain't bad.]

Croz has composed better music than Mike can ever dream of doing on his own. Anyone listen to Croz's new album? That's some great stuff. If he holds this opinion about Mike Love, at least we know he pays attention.

You're not allowed to have a contrarian view of Mike Love unless you've been intimate with him. Sorry, thems the rules.

Yeah, maybe they can beat each other with their canes.

McGuinn addresses this on his website, he says "a reunion of the 3 surviving original Byrds won't happen because of of the guys is not a Christian". McGuinn quotes that Bible verse about "not being unequally yoked together with unbelievers." Yet Chris Hillman, also a devout Christian, says he would love to reunite with the guys one more time. Whatever. ::)

Which just goes to prove the following:

1 - sometimes the born-agains can be the worst kind...

2 - Roger McGuinn is an idiot.

I'm rather more than partial - truly amazing piece of work, and one of the very few that manages to be both resoultey of its time and timeless. In my album Top 10, no question.

AInt that the truth. Just look at Kirk and Candace Cameron.

AGD,

I love hearing about others fave music besides BB/BW.  Your recommendation of If Only I Could Remember My Name has made me curious.  What is your all time top 10 best albums list?  I'd realy love it if you would take the time and post it here.  I think I should do the same, but I am slow so it might take a bit.  If I recall correctly you are also a big fan of Jim Steinman's work too, right?

Thanks in advance! 

To my shame and embarrassment I have never heard any solo Crosby outside his work with the Byrds (I'm a big fan) and CSNY (not a big fan) as his writing for those projects never excited me the way others writing did (Dylan,Clark, Mcguinn etc). 

That doesn't sound very...Christian.

1. And sometimes we're not. For instance, Chris Hillman or me. So one really shouldn't single out a particular belief here;
2. This is likely true.

If he could only remember his name

I'd recommend "If I Could Only Remember My Name" to anyone, it's one of the better lesser-known albums of the era (by lesser known I mean it doesn't get much airplay and has kind of a cult following among listeners). There are some terrific vocal harmonies and some great studio stories (available online) about how the album came together.

I'd *really* recommend taking a listen to this link I'm posting. Crosby appeared on the syndicated show "World Cafe" last year to talk and play music, and discuss his newest album which he made with his son. David and his band were in the studio and performed "Long Time Gone", and I'm not exaggerating to say it blew a lot of minds. I first heard it in the car and at that time I thought Crosby sounded terrific, as did his band. The station seemed to feel the same way, as a lot of the hosts were talking about and replaying that performance for months afterward, and they included it on the "best of" compilation from that year, which they send to subscribers.

Here is the link, interview and 3 songs including "Long Time Gone". Definitely check it out, it actually surprised the hell out of me how good he/they sounded.

http://www.xpn.org/world-cafe/guests/item/3737-david-crosby (http://www.xpn.org/world-cafe/guests/item/3737-david-crosby)

This whole discussion surprises me.   Mike  Love and David Crosby  have never struck me as opinionated or  driven by ego. Two of the most selfless guys in the business.

I call myself a Christian, and I've heard the 'unequally yoked' argument many times, but I find it strange that McGuinn uses that as a reason to not reunite with Crosby. He often shares the stage with performers who presumably don't share his beliefs - John Sebastian, Arlo Guthrie, Richie Havens (RIP). Maybe it's just code language for saying "I don't like the guy". And everyone I have talked to that has met Roger says he's a great guy...but we all have our quirks.

Isn't the horse on the cover of Notorious Byrd Brothers alongside the remaining band members something of a dig at Crosby?

Yeah, this is one of those scriptures that becomes a point of legalism when taken out of context. Paul was talking to the church in Corinth that was having a hard time separating from their former pagan practices. He was telling them that they cannot practice both Christianity and Paganism, since they are mutually exclusive, spiritually. He was not suggesting that they cannot associate with non-Christians.

Having said that, I have no idea why that's an issue for McGuinn.

Crosby ain't no saint, or hero of mine but I must confess he's composed some of the most awe inspiring and beautiful music I've ever heard. I feel he is uncompromising and driven in the same way ML is, and I respect he was giving an off the cuff answer to an off the cuff question. Being around the LA scene so long, I respect he's had plenty of opportunities to formulate an opinion of ML, and I agree that Phish have no groove (eg compare their version of Talikng Heads' Crosseyed And Painless...)

A dream of an album.  For my money, the best album that came out of the late '60s early '70s SF scene.

  It's a pretty good record, even if Robert Christgau saw fit to give it a D+ in his Rock Albums of the Seventies book. Crosby is good at his modular jazz thing, something we can hear in tunes like "Draft Morning", "Tribal Gathering", "Everybody's Been Burned", "Guinnevere", "Deja Vu" and his Name album.

these guys are getting to the age where they could title an album "if Only I Could Remember Why I Came Into This Room"

Well it must be something relatively new to his belief system; he had no qualms about reuniting with Hillman and Clark in the late 70's, or Hillman and Crosby circa 1990.

Allow me to repeat, with emphasis added: sometimes the born-agains can be the worst kind...

You're picking me up some something I didn't say. Please don't do that. If I'd intended to say, or even imply "invariably all born-agains are the worst kind..." I'd have said exactly that. As for other beliefs having a similar problem, well, just look at the murderous morons of IS who claim to follow Islam, and are rightly disowned by all decent Muslims (that is, the overwhelming majority).

I have some friends who are Christians, and they're perfectly normal people, I can't understand why they cling to a nearly 2000 year old random collection of scrolls written in order to control people. Other than that they're really nice people and don't try to convert you to their belief.

However, I did meet some who tend to have fundamentalist views - I don't associate with them.

I've met some of each as well. I personally don't care what anyone believes as long as they don't try to enforce them on others, or use them to justify intolerance (gay bashing) or stupidity (6000 year old earth with no evolution, etc.)

And then there's Kirk Cameron...

Just so: believe what you want, just don't try to drag me into it, and that includes testifying, doorstepping and stopping me in the street to ask if I've found Jesus. You lost him, not me, ergo your problem.

Here is the interview with McGuinn where those comments are taken from.

http://www.ibiblio.org/jimmy/mcguinn/DeepQuestions.html

To be fair to McGuinn, he used that "unequally yoked" thing as a reason for quitting Hillman/Clark (or just Hillman by that point) in the late 70s. He goes on to say that even if all surviving members of the Byrds were Christians he still wouldn't do the reunion because he's happy where he is.

he has said before he likes the folkie troubadour lifestyle, him and his wife in their touring van.

It's good to see musicians who don't put money first if their heart isn't in it.

Absolutely. A life-changing album, if ever there was one. 

Yeah the Christian thing is bull, it didn't stop him from reuniting with Crosby and Hillman in the early 90s, did it? Fact is I've read several times he doesn't care for Crosby that much. Also he hasn't had any interest to be a rock star for many years now, he's happy being a low key folkie.

I don't believe I called you out, I simply responded by saying "and sometimes we're not", which you appear to agree with

The use of the word "sometimes" implies that there's many, many exceptions. It was a correction that didn't need to be made, and this being text where tone and body language are filtered out, it's understandable why someone would then respond a tad defensively.

Crosby's Mike-related (and other) tweets are making the rounds at the hipster websites...

http://www.brooklynvegan.com/archives/2015/03/david_crosby_ca.html

http://consequenceofsound.net/2015/03/david-crosby-phish-kanye-mike-love/

Jim Morrison, when reached for comment, replied: "I died just so I would never have to work with David Crosby".

Quite. !!!   
You made me laugh out loud....for which many thanks.

Thanks for those links.  Loved this:  Brian' s genius in 3 words by Crosby -  "Innocent, brilliant, inspiring."  I can't imagine topping that...anybody here?

No, and he is absolutely right on the money.

Thanks for having the huevos to stand up for your beliefs, southbay.  I bet if I tried really hard, I could come up with at least a couple of "worst kinds" among the not born-againers.  But I think I'm sufficiently open-minded to not paint every nonbeliever with that broad brush.

Agreed.  Mr. Crosby is flippin' brilliant, and succinct.

Thanks.  Sometimes every kind can be the worst kind. I just thought we all knew that.

Count me in as another big fan of this album. Song with No Words blew me away the first time I heard it.

I just listened to this album (If Only I Could Remember My Name) earlier today - it was wonderful as pure music to have playing in the background.  It struck me not so much as an album of "songs", but more an overall vibe from start to finish.  Not quite sure how to express what I mean, but I was happily surprised by this, not something I'd ever heard before.  Are any of his other solo albums like this? 

nope. but look around for the PERRO sessions/outtakes.

Also, you might like parts of Paul Kantner/Jefferson Starship's 'Blows Against the Empire', made with much the same cast of characters.

Thanks for the heads up.    Listening to the Perro sessions right now - like it very much. 
"Blows Against The Empire" is one of those albums I have heard people recommend all my life but have yet to actually give it a listen.  I'll cue that up next.

Listen to 'Critical Mass/To the Last Whale' from Wind on the Water. Beautiful. The first part is Crosby, the second is Nash and it is wonderous.

There's a 3CD Croz box set - originally called Voyage, then they dicked around with it a bit and now I gather it's called The David Crosby Box - that gives you an excellent introduction to him: the third disc is entirely composed of rarities. His latest album, Croz, released just over a year ago, is something you'd probably like. Check out his work with Nash too - Spotify is your friend.

To correct myself, the piece is called To the Last Whale a. Critical Mass b. Wind on the Water.

Thanks for the tips Andrew and Outtasight!   I will give these a listen.