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Yes, that's right!  You heard right!  Seventeen whole minutes of "Heroes and Villains"!

Several years ago, using the structure of the ten-minute 'Heroes and Villains Suite' (from the Odeon Smile) as a base, I began seeing how I could expand that into something even bigger by incorporating songs and sections thought to be slated for inclusion in H&V at some point.  I think my final version at the time was something around twelve minutes.  Well, that's not good enough!

I've been hard at work on crafting "Heroes and Villains" into a side-long suite, currently sitting at a length of 17:05.  Move over, "In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida". :-P

The structure is now something like this...

* Heroes and Villains Part 1 (including Fire intro)
* Do You Like Worms
* Bicycle Rider Theme / Bridge To Indians
* Gee / Heroes and Villains Part 2
* I'm In Great Shape
* Heroes and Villains Part 3
* Barnyard
* The Old Master Painter
* You Are My Sunshine
* Heroes and Villains Part 4
* Heroes and Villains Finale (False Barnyard)

I'd like to include the "Eat A Lot" section, but I dunno.... my brain just keeps going "That belongs in Vegetables."  I don't like wedging it into H&V, even if it's labeled as a H&V section on the boxed set.  It doesn't fit.

where can one listen to this thing?

I'll probably post it somewhere and link it....

I'll listen when it's done. How about including With Me Tonight?

I'll give it a listen because you gave my 15:50 version a listen.  ;) 

Not to brag but I made an 18:30 minute version back in the Smile Shop days of yore. Yes, my Heroes and Villains is bigger than your Heroes and Villains.  ;D That means it's better, right?

Yes, but was your 18:30 version structured?  Or was it just a bundle of every recorded piece?

Anyway, lookie here:

http://www6.zippyshare.com/v/25800313/file.html

WELL DONE!

Yes, it was quite structured- at least as much as my imagination would allow it to be. I mixed in a lot of different sound effects. I guess it tries to tell a story though I must confess I'm still not quite sure after all these years what that story is. The only thing that I included from DYLW is some of the Bicycle Rider stuff but it has a lot in common with your new edit.

Anyway, thanks for sharing your epic edit. I just finished listening to it and it seems like a really good and pure respectful mono version. I'm sure you had a lot of fun making it. Nice job on the editing too. Thanks again.

Mono, except the "I'm In Great Shape" demo seems a *teeny bit* pushed to one side.  Not sure why.

:o

I like it, I don't know if I agree with putting Worms in there. 

Well, it does seem that "Worms" was meant to be part of Brian's wacky imagined H&V suite at one point.... and it does work great as a lead in to the Bicycle Rider interlude.

I believe the just the chorus of the song was gutted and put into HV, not the entire song. 

The link? Would love to hear it & compare w/ TheLazenby's & sonic's.

I'm up for it it...soon as as I can dust it off.

Is it that "Heroes and Villains Long Mix" on YouTube?  (Though I don't think that hits 18 minutes.)

Man, THAT one defines 'random'.... I'm sorry, but it literally is just all over the place.  Using TWO takes of the "Fire" intro is kind of overkill, too.

Naw- the one I did isn't uploaded anywhere. I don't think it even includes either one of those intros, although by today's standards, I'm sure it's a very much a shaggy dog indeed.

Here it is with a fresh coat of Old Paint. I tweaked it to update it in places:

http://www.mediafire.com/listen/l00y3a7lw11d219/BB_HorseOpera_102214.mp3

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/52684612/can-stock-photo_csp3390215.jpg)

Hope you city slickers like it.

Cannot wait to hear it!  (The page isn't loading though......)

I'm trying to figure out the proper 'titles' for each of the sections in my version... after research in various sources, this is what I've come up with, though I'm still missing a few bits.

01:26 - Stand Or Fall
02:08 - In The Cantina
02:43 - Fire Intro (my own name for it, but calling it H&V Intro now makes no sense!)
03:23 - My Children Were Raised
03:35 - Threescore And Five
03:46 - Dumb Whistle
03:57 - Prelude To Fade
04:31 - Do You Like Worms?
08:01 - Bicycle Rider Theme
09:26 - Soul Made Beautiful
09:31 - Bridge To Indians
09:38 - Gee
10:25 - Part 2 Variations
10:57 - I'm In Great Shape / Swedish Frog (I really hate that title.  They don't say 'frog'!!)
11:44 - Part 2 Variations, continued
12:22 - Barnyard
13:10 - The Old Master Painter
13:26 - You Are My Sunshine
14:15 - Part 2 Variations, conclusion
14:49 - My Children Were Raised, reprise
15:13 - Sunny Down Snuff
16:14 - Barnshine

You know, you could cut this track up on a Beach Boys compilation so that choosing 'Shuffle' on your CD player spits out H&V bits all over the disc.... "Fingertips" style! :-D

Hopefully this works OK:

http://www.mediafire.com/listen/l00y3a7lw11d219/BB_HorseOpera_102214.mp3

Does anyone have a suggestion where I might put the remaining bits?

I tried sticking "All Day" and "Eat A Lot" in a couple different places but they didn't seem to work.... wondering if anyone could come up with something brilliant. :)  Also wondering if there's a place to put that slow piano bit used for the Smile single's "Part 2" - you know, the one after the last 'dit, dit, dit, heroes and villains' variation.

Any chance you could, as they say,  do it again, please?

The problem with Eat A Lot is it's a completely different key than everything else.  It's in E (like Vege-Tables) and everything else is in C#.  For my version I had it follow Chimes Intro, which is also in E, so it works.  (see @ 2:40)

Same problem with All Day, which is in F# while the rest of H&V is in C.  What you need to do is switch the sections around so Take 26 (in Db) comes first and then the sections in F#--like how I Love To Say Dada was structured.  In mine it followed Bicycle Rider chorus, but I used the Dada proper (see 5:20)

soniclovenoize, could you repost your version somewhere? :)

Sure, I'm going to revise it first though, changed my mind about some things!  Give me the weekend...

I'm curious.... was "With Me Tonight" ever meant to be part of H&V?

What about "Our Prayer"?

No, I don't believe so.  afaik, the following were originally conceived as a part of H&V:
- I'm In Great Shape (later became it's own song)
- Barnyard (I personally believe this became a part of IIGS, but this is unconfirmed)
- Do A Lot (which later became the chorus of Vege-Tables
- All Day (which became it's own song as I Love to Say Dada and then evolved into Cool Cool Water)
- Intro Remake (some think this became the intro to Fire, but that may have been a Mark Linett creative choice in the 80s while compiling the SMiLE tapes, which was eventually perpetuated in BWPS; it did of course evolve into Fall Breaks, which also contains elements of Fire, who knows...)

Then the following was taken from other songs to be used in H&V:
- Fade from OMP
- Chorus from DYLW

Of course, this is what we have documentation for. For all we know, maybe Brian had more pieces from other songs intended, but we don't know.  I've heard someone mention OMP/Sunshine was a part of H&V originally, but the only source of that information was a session musician of the original version of H&V taped on 5/11/66, which was wiped.  Certainly OMP was not a part of H&V by Oct-Nov when both were tracked proper.  It's feasible because H&V is in C# and OMP is in it's 4th, F# (same as Cantina and the All Day...).  Barnyard and IIGS were still a part of H&V by that time, so why wasn't OMP?  Maybe because this was never reliable information to begin with?  idk

Also, the fact that the Bicycle Rider chorus was under the title H&V when recorded on 1/5/67 is very curious indeed.  Why?  because
1) DYLW was just worked on 15 days earlier.  Was it really dead by then?  The song was on the shortlist in February, so it shouldn't have been.
2) The lyrics tracked were "Bicycle Rider just see what you've done" not "Heroes and villains just see what you've done". This is significant because it is literally the lyrics found on the DYLW lyric sheet.  Why sing the Worms lyric if it's a part of H&V? Why not sing the after lyric (which was eventually done anyways)?
3) The key is in Gm, which does not gel with H&V's key of C#.  At all.  Nearly all of the H&V fragments were either in C# or F# so they would harmonically fit.  That's the only way one could create a song like this... Matter of fact, Brian knew this because when the piano figure was taken and put into H&V by 2/15/67 (as Piano Ballad) Brian had changed the key to D#m so it would fit.  This was after the finished Cantina Mix, when he decided "Oh Heroes and Villains needs a chorus, and it'll be taken from DYLW."  Since the January Bicycle Rider Theme was recorded before the finished Cantina mix of H&V and had not gotten a key change yet, I propose that is a documentation error, and that it was meant to be the missing chorus patch of DYLW, NOT H&V. 

Very nice, enjoyed it!!!

Now make the whole SMiLE-thing make sense like this!!  :P  :-D

I dunno if I can do that, but I WOULD like to have a go at a side-long "Good Vibrations", most likely using the (admittedly very rough) T-9280 CD version as a guide.

OK here you go.  Made a few changes so the pieces fit together a bit better.  It's still (mostly) in chronological order, so that you can hear how Brian's concept for the song changed over time.

  http://www4.zippyshare.com/v/41218812/file.html

0:00  -  Verse  (10/20)
1:02  -  Barnyard  (10/20)
1:51  -  I'm in Great Shape  (10/27)

2:11  -  Chimes Intro  (12/19)

2:41  -  Do A Lot  (1/03)
3:15  -  Pickup to 3rd verse  (1/03)
3:19  -  Part 1 Tag  (1/03)
3:43  -  Mission Pak  (1/03
3:47  -  Bridge To Indians  (1/03)
3:53  -  Bag of Tricks  (1/03)

4:34  -  All Day (1/27)
5:22  -  Cantina  (1/27)
5:56  -  My Children Were Raised  (1/27)
6:09  -  Verse "At 3 score 5"  (10/20 + 2/10)
6:20  -  Whistling Bridge  (1/27)

6:30  -  Prelude To Fade  (2/15)
7:03  -  Piano Theme  (2/15)
7:44  -  Gee  (2/20)
8:31  -  Part 2  (2/20)
9:09  -  Swedish Frog  (2/20)
9:38  -  Part 2 Revised  (2/20)
10:16  -  Part 4  (2/20)

10:50  -  Organ Waltz  (3/01)
11:29  -  Part Two/Chorus  (2/27 + 6/14)

12:09  -  Barbershop  (6/14)
12:31  -  Verse "Stand or fall"  (10/20 + 6/14)

13:15  -  Fade  (11/14)

Wow, having "Barnyard" lead into "I'm In Great Shape" sounds great.

(Also, your version definitely gave me some ideas of how to make mine longer... like adding in "All Day" before "In The Cantina.")

Voow this is truly great Krab! I really like the way you handled barnyard demo with all the farm sounds and fiddles beneath (from barnshine??)..made me think that after that section HV intro or even MOCW would go great.. really good contrast between laidback  then furious hectic...
think I´ll made me a mix like that!
Tnx for an idea!
One more question: are we gonna get some mp3/wav of your smile videos??

   Thanks for posting your comments, Nile. I had fun going back and revisiting those old ideas after all these years. It's funny that you mention following Barnyard with MOCW, because a long time back, that 's what I used to do for my Smile sequence. I had IIGS which would end with Barnyard fading out, and then a loud cow mooing and a crash of glass (a lantern breaking), followed immediately by Fire which I used as for the beginning of The Elements.
    As for wavs for some other things, I'll PM you, although I believe there are some free programs out there that allow one to capture the audio from Youtube videos. I've never tried them though.

Thanks! :)

Also I was thinking about it, and my concern with a project like this was always "How do you structure it?" and I always thought there was no possible way to do that since there is no linear narrative and it's just a jumble of random pieces.  And as I had said, mine was based on chronological order of recording date, but that of course is meant to communicate something else as opposed to what you are trying to do. 

But then it occurred to me just the other day that you could take all the fragments and classify them into four specific groups...

VERSES
Verse 1 – Been in this town
Verse 2 – My children were raised/3 score 5
Verse 3 – La la la/Stand or fall
Verse 4 – Barbershop

SKITS/INTERLUDES
Barnyard
I’m in Great Shape
Cantina
My Only Sunshine (I am skeptical, but let's give that session musician a benefit of the doubt)

INTROS and OUTROS
Chimes Intro
Bag of Tricks
Organ Waltz
Fade

CHORUSES
Piano Theme
Gee
Part 2 (Anvil/Hooves)/Swedish Frog
Part 2 Revised
Part 4
Part 2/Chorus

LINKS/BRIDGES/TAGS
Pick-up to 3rd Verse
Part 1 Tag
Mission Pak
Bridge to Indians
Whistling Bridge
Prelude to Fade

And that only leaves "All Day" and "Do A Lot", which could possibly be a link and/or bridge.  Same with Swedish Frog, that could be moved to a skit?

So here you could make a theoretical structure with these different groups, such as: intro / verse / skit / chorus / bridge and then assemble that structure from the above sections list.  Since there are approx four pieces in each group you can repeat the structure four times, with maybe a chorus repeated (since there's six) and of course the extra link tracks are needed to accommodate key changes if necessary,.   

Does that make sence or am I ranting? 

Sorry to hijack your thread, I'll be quiet if you want, I guess I'm just thinking out loud here... 

No, no, go on as much as you'd like!  I'm always open to new H&V structures. :-)

I mean, mine's just based on the GV boxed set/Odeon Smile layout, because that's what I'm most used to.  I'm just used to that Part 1 (with Cantina)/Gee/Part 2 (chorus variations) lay out.

I love the flow of having the Organ Waltz (with it's police siren at the beginning) right after "You're under arrest!" and then into Part 2/Chorus (though it also works just as well into the piano theme which is the same melody).  Piano Theme after Prelude to Fade works nice as well.  I don't think doing a super long H&V and trying to cram as many sections as possible with each other is overkill - it starts to become a little annoying.  You guys are giving me (and many of us) some cool ideas to move forward with.  I love Great Shape and Barnyard, but their audio quality still bugs me, and since they are more novelty pieces in the grand scheme, they are not essential to a H&V track, even if originally intended to be, so I'd leave them out.

Wow, did I miss sth.! Sorry, krabklaw, I totally forgot about requesting your H&V. Can you re-up it in sendspace? Mediafile won't allow me to d/l it & heads me to Amazon. Thanks in advance.

I'm thinking of putting the TSS box version of "With Me Tonight" after the last part 2 'dit-dit-dit heroes and villains' variation, starting with the lone bass riff.  Perhaps the accidental crash that brings the song to an end can lead back into "My children were raised"? :)

I hope you enjoy it:
https://www.sendspace.com/file/p9khhs

(https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/52684612/can-stock-photo_csp3390215.jpg)

Okay, change the topic title to "23-minute Heroes and Villains coming!" :)

It's not a replacement for my 17-minute one (since people seemed to really like how that was put together).... just an obsessively-inclusive alternative!

Okay.... here is my 21:49 "Heroes and Villains".  This is as far as I'm willing to go.
http://www24.zippyshare.com/v/15513133/file.html

And for my money, the 17-minute one I made is still much, much better.  I tried so hard to make this all work, and I'll admit, I may have failed.

Great stuff man! Funny, I never heard that first section of "All Day" before. Guess I didn't listen that far into the Smile Sessions edit!

Is it just me, or does streaming it from the Zippyshare page (instead of downloading it), and playing the heavily-compressed preview version, add some depth that normally isn't there?

It sounds sounds a bit odd and interesting on headphones to me. :-D