The Smiley Smile Message Board

here's a quick little exercise, take each of the ten past and present official members of The Beach Boys, and rank them in order of preference and contributions to the band. no.1 should be straight forward, but then it get's difficult. you are free to add reasons for your choices, if you like.

1. brian (main songwriter, best falsetto once)
2. mike (hardest working bb, main lead vocals, chief lyricist, wrote The California Myth)
3. carl (the voice of an angel, the bridge between band factions)
4. dennis (the second best songwriter, vital drummer, the soul of The Beach Boys)
5. al (solid rhythm guitarist who surprised with some good originals and choice covers)
6. david (the best guitarist in the band)
7. bruce (should have written more songs for a man who wrote "I Write the Songs", a grammy winner)
8. blondie (sail on sailor)
9. ricky (preferable to john stamos!)

10. glen campbell (important pinch hitter until bruce came along, but bruce was a good choice, coming out of surf rock)

Just to be factual, Glen Campbell was never an official member of the Beach Boys, he was asked but declined. Yes he toured and recorded with the group, and posed for photos etc... But was never one of the official Beach Boys. The same criteria would hold true for Billy Hinsche and Daryl Dragon who were each also asked to become official Beach Boys but also declined,. My point is they are as much 10th BB's as Glen. There are really only 9 official Beach Boys. If I were to add a 10th it would definitely be Billy H.

Yes, Billy or Matt Jardine. Matt actually appeared on Home Improvement and David Letterman (singing the Top 10) as one of the Boys.

This is completely personally speaking.

Brian - obviously.  No Brian, no Beach Boys.

Murry - love him or hate him, he was vital to their early success and climb.  
May as well include Audrey (Audree?  Audry?) as without both Murry and she
there certainly would not be a Beach Boys.

Dennis - He is the Beach Boy.   He was Brian's closest sibling.  Whether they were close as children or not,
he undoubtedly had a great effect on who Brian was and became and the music he created.

Carl - same goes for Carl as Dennis, just perhaps in different ways.   A big part of what makes the Beach Boys the Beach Boys is the family aspect - it's their strength, their weakness, their beauty and their insanity.   It's the family thing that has always been a big fascination for me, and I'll warrant I'm not alone in that.  

Al - yes, Al.  I like Al.  He's the only one of the original members who I have never really got pissed off at.    
I like Al's voice and the fact that he can sound so much like Brian is cool.   He's got the best voice nowadays out of all of them.  I vote for Al!

Mike - okay, so here's the Lovester.    He obviously is key on a level akin to Dennis and Carl.  he sang with Brian as kids, he is blood relation and he wrote some very good lyrics.   He provided that signature nasal tone to their sound as well as a sensuous and meditative bass vocal.    And of course we all know that the Beatles wrote All You Need Is Love about him  ::) :-D   He has some cool hats.    He promotes TM, which these days especially can't be such a bad idea.  I like Love, he's just a butthead sometimes.   Aren't we all though?  ..........really?

David - though just a kid at the time, he had some real talent, as he went on to show, it would have been interesting to see how his presence would have effected things.   I'm glad he finally saw some due.  

Bruce - for a fill in guy, he turned out pretty alright I'd guess.    I don't really know what to say about Bruce, he'd just Bruce.  :P

and that's where my list stops - no offense to any other members, but for me personally, the only vital people are those above (with maybe the addition of Britz).

Why did billy and daryl decline?

1, Stamos- yes if it wasn't for him they would have lost their popularity back in the 90's
2. Murry- if it wasn't for him they wouldn't have been discovered
3. Reggie Dunbar- if it wasn't for him they wouldn't have had the hit song "Break away"
4. Jan Berry- if it wasn't for him Brian wouldn't have had his first #1
5.Manson- if it wasn't for him they wouldn't have recorded "Never learn not to Love"
6. Terry Melcher- if it wasn't for him Manson wouldn't have been introduced to the BB's hence no "Never learn not to Love"
7. Brian Wilson- if it wasn't for him there would be no beach boys, ok there would be but they would be some other people, maybe from france or brazil singing songs about walking on the beach and they would be 12 year old boys and not men..
8. Mike Love- if it wasn't for him there would be no Courtney Love, who is his secret love child..
9. Zeppo- if it wasn't for him the incident with the song "Forever" a couple years ago would have never happened hence the beach boys losing their popularity, again, like in the 90's because of Stamos..
10. Van Dyke Parks- if it wasn't for him we would have something else released instead of Smile back in 67..

1. Brian.

2. Carl and Dennis. I rank them together because at the core of the Beach Boys is the Wilson brothers singing harmony in their room. As band members, I think their contributions are fairly equal. Carl's guitar and Dennis' drums were at the center of that garage band sound. Dennis was the "dreamboat" in a geeky sort of group and it was basically his lifestyle they were singing about. Carl developed into a wonderful singer, took on a lot of responsibility and was the glue that held the band together in later years.

3. Al. While Al's creative contributions might not have been that frequent, he was willing to do whatever the music called for. He should have been given more leads.

4. Mike. It's hard for me to know how to rank Mike. He should be at number 3, given his family connection and lyric work.  Unfortunately, even though he's made huge contributions to the group, he's also probably the member who has the worst public goodwill and seems to be at the center of many of the group's controversies.  Years from now, I think his vocal work, early lyrics and determination to keep the band's name out there will ultimately outweigh his lack of self awareness and public finesse. I think. I hope. But, for now, his propensity for lawsuits and the never ending Wilson drug mantra keep him at number 4.

5. Dave. I like Dave. Dave is cool. And his guitar work in the very earliest days of the band can't be beat. But, looking at the longer picture, a whole lot was done without him. Shame, really.

6. Bruce.  He did a pretty good job of filling in that Brian shaped hole in the touring band.  And, let's face it. No one wears shorts or adjusts a mic like Bruce.

My list stops here. Even though Ricky and Blondie were "official" members, they never really gelled with me. Their time with the band seemed to be indicative of the Beach Boys trying to be something they weren't. Sail On Sailor is good, though.

 :P

 ;D

Billy was offered to be in the band as early as 1969. He was going to school in Los Angeles and thought he'd finish getting his degree. Not sure if he ever finished or why he didn't join afterwards in the 70's, but he's been in and out of Beach Boys land ever since.

Daryl got real tired of the heavy alcohol consumption by his music collaborator at the time. He also had a girlfriend named Toni, whom he played on stage with in The Beach Boys. Around the Fall of 1973, the two of them decided to work on their own career together so he quit the band.

Was Ed Carter asked to be a beach boy?

In terms of importance...

1, Brian by a long way due to the the writing, production, arranging etc.

2, Mike due to being the frontman and most frequent lead singer as well sometime lyricist.
3, Carl due to taking over production duties and his role in the live band.

Equal 4, Dennis as he came up with the surfing idea and was an important sex symbol in the early days. Then he obviously wrote some fine songs even if they didn`t always necessarily boost the group`s popularity.
Equal 4, Al as his voice became important in the live shows and the songs that he contributed were more successful/led to more hits than Dennis`s.

6, Bruce as he has been with the group for so many years and was the sober and sane member that they needed.

7, David for appearing on the early albums and the C50 tour but his lack of songwriting and singing means he doesn`t rank higher imo.

Equal 8, Blondie and Ricky for improving the live shows and writing a few songs.

Ed "Steady Eddie" Carter was recruited into the Beach Boys by Bruce Johnston in 1968. He became a full-fledged member in 1975 and left the band in 1995.

Classic!  :lol

??? This is the first I've heard of this.

I actually asked Bruce the question years ago on the brit site. He often mentions 'he called around trying to find a replacement for Brian, couldn't find anyone, so nominated himself'. I asked who would turn down one of the best gigs in the business and he said Ed Carter. I made it very clear I was referring to 1965.

Dennis (The Real Beach Boy, the soul of the band, and the most talented in the 70's)
Carl (The heart of the band, was easily the best singer)
Brian (The genius of the band, and the most talented in the 60's)
Al (Has a likeable personality along with Carl, plus his voice has held up the best)
Blondie (Was part of the band during their live peak, plus... Sail On Sailor)
Bruce (Most underappreciated Beach Boy, and a decent songwriter)
David (Seems like a cool guy, and the best guitarist the Beach Boys ever had)
Ricky (Stig)
Mike (At least he's the most consistent member, and I have grown to appreciate him. But he has such a dislikeable personality, plus he sold out big time)

I assume this would refer to his being a full fledged member of the stage band, not actually a "member" of "the Beach Boys"?

One of the books talks about how Billy was excited about becoming an official member but his dad said "nope, you will finish your degree first", which he did at UCLA's film school. I'm not sure either why he didn't officially join the band after that, since he was certainly not excluded from the stage band.

Maybe the offer wasn't indefinitely extended. We all know how many changes the group went through in all aspects. The offer might have made sense to the guys at one point but have been rethought by the time Billy was out of school.

Total guess.

Yeah, he had plenty of time to formally join the band after that. Even after Blondie and Ricky left. He played keys AND guitar AND sang vocals so he was versatile. In an interview, he said he joined the band in 1974, but it's obvious he was a member of the band before that. Maybe he was happy just to be a backup musician on stage and play on some of the tracks in the studio.

Brian

Carl and Dennis (the Heart & Soul of the Beach Boys)

Mike Love & Al (Mr. Frontman himself and the awesome voice of the group)

Blondie & Ricky (are equally important as they kinda came and went at the same time and added the much needed cool factor to the group)

David Marks (long outside the band but coming back to the fold fully in recent years, illustrious school boy talent when the group first got started and booted rather unfairly by Murry)

Bruce Almighty (a bit of a dork imo and hardly my fave songwriter, was mostly present in the dorky 80's period, but love his vocals contributions to classics in the 1965-1971 period. I felt his production wrecked what could've been a stronger LA album.)

I took this information directly from an interview conducted with Ed in 1997 by a local newspaper in his hometown in Arizona. The term full-fledged to me means "full status" and "completely established". The interview makes it look like he became a full member in 1975, but pretty sure Ed remained a back-up musician with the band until he left in 1995. Don't think I'm wrong on that.

Interesting.  I think I saw that interview some time ago. I was just thinking along the lines of "stage/studio musician" member.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=894&dat=19970820&id=z7oKAAAAIBAJ&sjid=gU0DAAAAIBAJ&pg=6477,2965721

Wording in the story is '...full time member of the band in 1975.'

.

Wha?  You didn't believe me??  Would I lie to ya?

Just linking the story and confirming the facts mam. :police:

It clearly means member of the touring band...

In the same way that Jeff Foskett became a full time member again recently.

You do realize we had all 10 of them, right?  No need to choose one or the other.

Not to me it doesn't. There's no "touring" in the wording of that sentence. To most readers, including me, it means he's simply a member of the band. And "full-fledged", as I clarified above, means he not only played on stage, but making records and doing whatever a full member does. That article didn't limit Ed to be a touring musician. And he wasn't just a backup musician, he recorded on a few records too. It could be misconstrued, and some would think the article gave him more credit than credit was due.

Ya know, Al Jardine wasn't a "full-fledged" member of the Beach Boys until 1973.  ;D

Yeah and he didn`t record on a lot more.

You are right that the article could be misconstrued. I`m not sure why anyone would take a local newspaper`s words as gospel though.

I didn't take it as gospel, and that's why I tried to clarify and questioned it after I posted it. Assuming the paper took Ed at his word and didn't write in their own take on his history and status in the band, then I'm assuming info coming from the horse's mouth in an interview is the final word until an untruth is revealed.

1. Brian - Okay, the guy had some problems. As Carl said, he was the "Stalin of the studio." And he did force the band to stare at a bobble-head doll while they were recording confusing lyrics for Smile about Geronimo. Then there was the time when the rest of the band were recording their own song, "Add Some Music" and Brian came down to play some bizarre two-chord thing on the piano, his sole offering for the Sunflower album. Aside from all that, he did a good job.
2. Dennis - They said he lived a fast life but maybe he just liked a fast life.
3. Carl - He was the only person who supported Dennis, and listened intently to his music particularly after Dennis helped him do heavy lifting. Once called Brian the "Stalin of the studio." Extra points for being the only son to attend Murry's funeral - a good choice as that's where the deal to release Endless Summer was made.
4. Mike - A good man but once threw a deck chair in a rage. An excellent wordsmith despite not knowing what the literary device "alliteration" means.
5. Al - Kind of a background guy who mostly said some stuff in order to join in on group discussions. May have once called Brian the "Stalin of the studio" -- can't exactly recall at the moment.
6. Bruce - They're not saying "Boo"

"And he did force the band to stare at a bobble-head doll while they were recording confusing lyrics for Smile about Geronimo."


Nice one  :lol :lol :lol :lol

If it were a direct quote from him then I could agree. But the article is almost entirely focused on touring and it is easy to see how a comment of something like, `I was full time with The Beach Boys from 1975 to 1995` could be written down as, `I was a full time member of the band`.

Right.  The words "full-fledged" are the ones that got me. To me, that means he was one of the actual band members (i.e. with Brian, Mike, Carl, Dennis, Al, Blondie, & Ricky). But he was portrayed on the album covers and concert programs as a supporting musician! I think maybe the paper article exaggerated a little bit.

You know, Nick, if you look at the inner sleeve of the "In Concert" album from '73, Ed Carter was behind the 8 ball. Literally!

 :lol   Great line!

Is that true or was he just not a member of BRI until then?

Just BRI. Prior to becoming a Corporate owner, he was full-fledged just like Bruce, Ricky and Blondie after him, and David before him. By the way, is Dave still considered a Beach Boy today?

Doesn't "full-fledged" mean you're also a member of BRI?

There was a discussion about who played what on a Beach Boys record. The subject of the "Beach Boys In Concert" ('73) came up. Somebody wanted to know who played that excellent lead guitar riff in the middle of Rhonda. One guy said it was Carl. Another said Blondie. I said Ed Carter.

It remains inconclusive......

"full-fledged" nope

Yes, but only if stated that for BRI, not The Beach Boys as a rock band. Think of BRI as the Corporate Board of Directors and The Beach Boys as one of the companies under that corporate umbrella.