The Smiley Smile Message Board

Since the other thread got so large I thought I'd make a new one for tonight's show. Very excited to see how things go! I'll provide as many updates as I can.

Speaking of this show...I had the ticket page opened up, selected two front row tickets in Orch A for $97 and the phone rang. Come back 5 minutes later and someone had purchased the tickets and put them back up for sale at $370 each. Unreal...

They just sound checked Pom Pom Play Girl! Mike said it wasn't ready for "Prime Time" yet.

Now they just did Farmer's Daughter with Jeff on vocals!

Who sang lead on PPPG?

 :)

Soundcheck:

Getcha Back
I'm So Young
Pom Pom Play Girl
Farmer's Daughter
Please Let Me Wonder
Good To My Baby

I believe that covers it!

That's interesting. IIRC it was Jeff's suggestion to use "Farmer's daughters"' melody on Brian's recording of "I got rhythm" on BWRG. Maybe it was his idea now as well to do that song

Sounded like Scott but I was outside venue so I'm not sure.

They also did Forever with Stamos on lead vocals

So what does Dave get lead on besides Getcha Back? Summertime Blues maybe?

I'm anxious to see what he gets too, maybe Hawaii or Do You Wanna Dance.

The venue sold so poorly they were offering orchestra seat upgrades for $10, really maybe half full at best.

Sucks for the band but great for you  ;D

Dave's only lead was Do You Wanna Dance, 29 song set

Mike sounded great.
My favorite songs were Pisces Brothers and Ballad of Ole Besty (Scott on lead).
Cowsill rules on drums but his vocal on Rhonda seems misplaced.
Too much Stamos pimping.
Wendy is apparently tough to play live.
Good concert not worth the 70 clams though.

Yes, thank you. I don't have the greatest memory in the world, haha.

I really enjoyed myself, I thought it was a great show! And I never thought Bruce was such a laugh riot, that guy is hilarious! It was awesome getting to meet Mike, Bruce, and Dave. Class acts, all of them. And the weather today was perfect.

This is true. It's all covered in the new book.

(http://i62.tinypic.com/vet3yx.jpg)

Speaking of Bruce, whoever put this together, thank you: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gg9qb05ra7I

Can anyone give us more details on how the VIP experience/meet and greet went?

Sounds like Al missed a good show! ;)

It's okay, I would want to forget that too...

Fun Fun Fun w/ solo by David: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9CD_87ISHZ8

Somehow I think he's not losing any sleep over it.

I have to say though the soundcheck did seem worth it based on the songs they played,  I wonder though if these are the songs they play every time or of they actually do change it up.

It was a lot of fun, pretty well organized. First thing we did was hang out in Club Kokomo, until they were done with their real soundcheck. Once the band was ready, we all went over to the stage and listened to their mini-setlist. Afterwards, we all went back to Club Kokomo, with Mike, Bruce, and Dave. They spent about ten minutes socializing and talking with folks before the photo session began. Once that started, everyone lined up and had their photo taken with the guys.

When it was my turn for my photo, I had no idea what to say, because I was kind of in awe. I thanked them and told them they were my heroes. Then came the Q&A session, and I made sure I was front and center for that. About five questions were asked, mainly by little kids who were there, which was nice. Then Mike and Dave headed off, while Bruce stuck around for another minute to chat with folks, before heading off himself.

So, the meet and greet was pretty brief, but the guys seemed to be in good spirits and certainly seemed grateful that we were all there. A very cool experience.

'Twas indeed Scott, good ear.

A lot of people were expecting him there and some seemed disappointed that he wasn't. Obviously many folks had no idea he had backed out of the show.

Y'THINK??!!!

Setlist:

Do It Again
Goin' to the Beach
Little Honda
Catch a Wave
Hawaii
Surfin' Safari
Surfer Girl
Wendy
Don't Worry Baby
Little Deuce Coupe
409
Shut Down
I Get Around
Ballad of Ole' Betsy
Pisces Brothers
Forever
God Only Knows
Good Vibrations
Sloop John B
Wouldn't It Be Nice
California Girls
Help Me Rhonda
Be True to Your School
Rock & Roll Music
Do You Wanna Dance
Barbara Ann
Surfin' USA

(encores)
Kokomo
Fun Fun Fun

Summertime Blues was on stage set but was not played I think because of time restriction.

Did Bruce sing GOK? Or was it the Carl video?

Looks like it's still the Carl video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gbb-1M0AdZw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gbb-1M0AdZw)

This is an interesting setlist because it is definitely shorter than the average show, presumably because of it being a show with multiple acts performing. But with many songs cut, it's interesting to see how the leads are dispersed on the remaining songs:

Bruce: Wendy, first verse Sloop (shared?) and presumably the bridge on surfer girl (2-3)
David: DYWD (1)
Scott: Betsy (1)
John Stamos: forever (1)
John Cowsill: Rhonda (1)
Carl: GOK (1)
Randell: (0)
Jeff: GV, DWB, WIBN (shared?), kokomo (part)
Mike: 15.5 leads

Man, it's really a ML solo show with him hogging all those leads.

In a normal-to-longer length set, the other guys get more leads. Lately, Scott has been doing The warmth of the Sun and sharing lead on Fools. John cowsill usually has Darlin, wild honey, cotton fields. I guess Randell only has Then I Kissed Her lately. And Bruce of course has Disney girls, DYWD (when David isn't there) and Summer means fun. I just found it interesting that those songs were chosen to be cut.

Realistically though, shouldn't Mike be doing most of the leads since he's the only original Beach Boy in "The Bruce Boys?"

I count Mike as singing 17 of the leads (including Kokomo).

Which, as Pinder so rightly says, is the way it should be to stop it turning into too much of a tribute show.

I like that name better than M&B. :lol

Yeah you're right. I think I forgot to count Fun Fun fun, and counted kokomo as just a half lead.

Love this pic of David in lions head with Bill O R & Mike -

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xap1/t1.0-9/10484162_664019110356174_8483537461544490226_n.jpg)

.

Those songs would have definitely spiced up the setlist.  :(  Was particularly hoping for Bruce on Disney Girls, but oh well!

Love it.  :)

Yes, even with the time constraint(s), I'm surprised that "Disney Girls" isn't a constant in the setlist. It serves a couple of purposes....it highlights Bruce, who hasn't written many BB songs, doesn't sing many leads live, gives Mike a rest, and spotlights arguably Bruce's shining hour with the BB. I'm also slightly surprised that "I Write The Songs" doesn't get performed more often.

IN MY OPINION, I like that Mike has so many leads. I prefer it when the original lead vocalist sings the lead vocals on the songs. I noticed that, other than Al's three leads, there was a shortage of original lead vocals on the songs that Brian performed the other night.

And, who would've thought that Mike & Bruce's setlist would feature more solo material than Brian's. :o

And none of the folks here know that he did either because that's never been clarified.  We all wish that we knew what went down between all of them.

I would also say that it appears the promotion for the show was placing as much of an emphasis as possible on “original members” being present for each of the bands. That’s probably one of the reasons Al and Dave were pursued by Live Nation. So, in addition to it being a shorter setlist, I would say it’s possible they didn’t hand as many leads as usual off to the sidemen so that the emphasis was on the main “original member” for the show. Just a guess.

I think it`s more down to the fact that the vast majority of Mike`s leads are songs that are considered `undroppable` from the set list. The only songs that are not classics are Goin to the Beach and Pisces Brothers and they have been ever presents recently. Some of the songs that Mike has sung recently like It`s OK, Dance Dance Dance and Kiss Me Baby were also omitted so all of the band members lost some leads.

Here are some of my thoughts on the show.

-- It was a fun night out, and I doubt anyone in the crowd left really disappointed.

-- As mentioned, I wish the setlist were a bit more varied and spicy. It was definitely a 'greatest hits' night, especially as compared to the C50 show I saw two years ago. I do understand that they were under time constraints, and that this 'oldies package' format with two other 60s pop bands pretty much guarantees a crowd showing up to hear the hits.

-- The stage was set up with cheesy palm trees all over it... quite a contrast from the C50 aesthetic, as were the ladies dancing onstage during a couple of songs. In my opinion, the music speaks for itself and I kind of wish they didn't feel the need to do that stuff.

-- Mike Love was fascinating to watch up close. His voice was very strong throughout, and he had amazing energy (as did Bruce), to be able to stand and even dance around a bit through the whole show. Really impressive job throughout.

-- I missed 'Disney Girls' from Bruce. He had a prominent position on stage, but did not get a showcase lead vocal all night.

-- David Marks seemed relegated to much more a sideman role than in C50, and with no big intro, I doubt almost anyone in the crowd knew that he was an original member.

-- Jeff Foskett on 'Don't Worry Baby' was a definite highlight and I continue to be puzzled why he gets no love on these boards. A nice sweet rendition of this song that the crowd really responded to.

-- John Stamos was irritating, and I could have done without the chitchat with him. BUT to his credit, before singing 'Forever' he did an intro where he namechecked each one of the original members (including all the Wilson brothers + Al) and thanked them for the years of great music. Other than that I don't think Brian was mentioned or shown onscreen a single time, which was kind of eerie. And the video during Forever was all Stamos, no Dennis Wilson, which seemed a bit tone-deaf to me given that GOK is set up as a tribute to Carl.

-- I liked Ballad of Ole Betsy a lot -- one of the real rarities, sung by Scott Totten with sweet backing harmonies from the rest of the guys. In general, the harmonies did not always have the richness and depth that I heard at Brian's concert last year, but they were quite lovely on this number.

-- In the context of the show, I really enjoyed Pisces Brothers as a change of pace from the cars/surf music. It seemed an unusual throwback to the more spiritual, introspective late 60s/early 70s Mike (I'd like to see more of that guy), and a reminder of the much wider range of moods and material the Beach Boys are capable of.

-- I hate to say it, as I really like Al and missed his presence at the show, but I thought John Cowsill was great on Rhonda. Dynamic stage presence with an unusually lower, deeper sound to the vocal, almost reminiscent of the early 70s BBs version with Carl on lead.

All in all it was an enjoyable show. If C50 was an A+ and Brian Wilson/Jeff Beck/Al&David last year was an A-, I'd probably have to give the show a B+, docked mostly for the hits-heavy setlist. But overall very glad I went.

Hi Everyone-

We had a great time at the Jones Beach show.  I, too regret that it was restricted to 90 minutes.  We were given a strict 10:30 curfew and we ended at 10:29.  We did our best to cover all the bases we could in that time schedule.  SJS, Disney Girls IS a staple of our normal-length shows, and is one of my favorites, but at nearly 5 minutes in length, we just couldn't squeeze it in this time.

Despite all that, it was a blast to play there and have David with us.

Scott

Scott, nice job on Betsy. Thanks for a fun night!   :)

Thanks for a fantastic show Scott!!! Hearing Pom Pom Play Girl and Farmer's Daughter during the soundcheck was fantastic!! I really hope you incorporate those into the show at some point and continue to do more rarities like those! Again fantastic show had a blast!
Thanks - Derek

Hello everyone, I'm new to this board, well I'm returning after many surfer moons. I was at the show the other night, and it was GREAT to see the guys, hear the songs and feel a nice ocean breeze as I did, seemed fitting! I was really put off by John Stamos. Honestly I knew he had an association to the band, and know that he loves the music, but bring him out for Kokomo, and leave it at that! To remove John Cowsill off the drums to bring on Stamo's, was a mistake. First off his drums weren't as in the mix as Johns, and quite frankly Cowsill is a better fit for the music, he plays near the original parts. John Stamo's was having fun and that's great......But I came to see the Beach Boys, I came to hear The Beach Boys. I accept the backing members, as they stay true to the music. but can we leave Uncle Jessie home?

Forever w/ Stamos: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgQeMeC7a6E

Oh, ok. People are laughing at it, because they're showing cheesy shots of Stamos. That's pretty cool.

Did The Muppets ever sing God Only Knows? They could show up for a couple of gigs a year. Who needs Carl?

Is club Kokomo hugely embarassing or ingenious, I can't decide

Lord help us.

John can't sing, can he?

He's actually a pretty decent singer most nights. Maybe the sea air got to him (I'm only half kidding).

Glad you're back and saw the show.  Stamos seemed initially sort of a non-conventional choice, but, he has, in his own right become part of American culture, whether people like it or not. His former series ran eight seasons and it in virtually every TV market on this planet. He has a following that the "classic" rock fans, who are "purists" might not appreciate. But, those of us have raised kids, who have become BB fans as a direct result of Full House, despite musical brainwashing can be grateful that he drew fans into the mix, with the BB cameo appearances on his series. Those millions of kids were a captive audience for The Beach Boys. Uncle Jesse made the introduction.

Stamos and The Fat Boys, made fans out if my kids.  My son's girlfriend can't wait to see the BB's but she really likes Stamos, and wants to see them because of him. I'll take it.  I find his drumming closer to Dennis' - very straight-forward without the fancy stuff.  And for each one who finds it cheesy, ten (young fans) are enamored with him and the BB's by extension.

Cowsill is another story.  Gifted, and his formation under the tutelage of his older, very musically creative brothers, working on vocal blending, took place in an era that I consider the Golden Age of Rock, and is unique. He appears to have absorbed it like a sponge, at a very young age.  I'm delighted to see Stamos along for some performances because Cowsill gets a lead in front of an audience, rather than behind the drum kit.  He does a lot of Carl's leads and has a strong voice.  He interprets Rhonda in a very sassy style, not far afield from the MIC version done by Dennis.  

He is on par with the greatest drummers of rock.  JMHO

I think John Cowsill’s drumming is great, and I’ll be first in line to buy tickets to see him drum with “C53” or “C55” or whatever the reunited lineup can pull together. But why can’t he just be a really fine drummer? My own opinion is that “one of the greatest drummers of rock” is hugely hyperbolic, especially based on his drum work with the Beach Boys. You’d have to be familiar with A LOT of “rock drummers” to suggest he’s one of the “greatest.” I haven’t surveyed nearly enough drummers to say who is the greatest, but even I would not go anywhere near suggesting he’s one of the greatest. But as I said, I guess it’s my own problem that I have with questioning why we can’t just say something is really good because he we like it, but rather it has to skip straight to hyperbole.

As for Stamos, I know enough about drums to say he’s a mediocre drummer at best, setting aside anything to do with his celebrity or personality. I would say Dennis, on his good days anyway, was a technically more proficient drummer. I’d say even Kowalski back in the 60’s and 70’s at least was a better drummer. As I’ve mentioned way in the past, and this was alluded to by David Marks in an interview way back around 2000 or so, it’s clear musicianship is just a background hobby for Stamos. Nothing wrong with that; acting is his primary thing clearly. But it also means being opened up to scrutiny when getting on stage, especially with a famous band. He’s never refined his guitar playing or drumming past the ability to get through songs and pose as a rock star. It’s all posing. I’ve seen enough of his live appearances with the group to see that he obviously gets off on being a rockstar for a night (or many nights when he follows them on tours for runs of shows).

As I noted in my blog, it’s clear Stamos was given prominence at the Jones Beach show. The Jones Beach Facebook page has a photo album from the show, and there are seemingly over a dozen shots (many solo) of Stamos, and exactly one picture of David Marks. So the irony in all of the Jardine kerfuffle regarding Jones Beach is that he likely would have been relegated to the background like Dave was, singing a lead or two, and stepping back while Stamos struts and hams it up. Bringing Stamos on and giving him such prominence at a show that would have reunited four of the band members (and even three as it ended up being) during a show with an already-shortened setlist kind of devalues the whole thing to me.

That interview last year with Stamos in “Guitar Aficionado” was quite interesting. He clearly KNOWS fans are annoyed by him, and kind of admitted he would be annoyed if he were a fan in the audience as well. What surprises me is that, while to some degree he tried to peg these fans as “hardcore Brian Wilson” fans, I’m not seeing a number of pretty staunch supporters of Mike’s band who also find Stamos highly annoying.

Not hyperbole, just not getting the recognition as yet.  The C50 intro for Do It Again supports that.  I liken his position to Carl's many interviews where Brian "made him sing." Except my take is that Cowsill took to the drums like a duck to water.  Brian had his own guys on drums for his whole solo career.  Cowsill was the choice.  And, not unlike Carl, he grew in the job with his family's band.  The Cowsill work became a part of American culture as well. Everyone from the late 60's knows The Rain, the Park, etc.  and even if they forget who sings it, they know the melody.  As well as Hair.

At the end of the day, my son's 27 year old girlfriend likes The Beach Boys because of John Stamos. How they "get there" (as a fan) doesn't matter.  Only that they do.   ;)

As the show didn`t reunite 4 members, I don`t think that really matters now.

I appreciate John Stamos is a huge fan of the band but jeez, when he become the center of attention at a Beach Boys show.........if Mike haters want a good reason to do so, this is a great (and ongoing) opportunity.

Just like (most) people hated the cheerleader act of the 80's / 90's having Stamos onstage is just about as distracting.  It's a shame David got pushed into the background a bit.  Mike can certainly do what he wants and that's cool but it's clear what he thinks is "great for the brand" may not be shared by fans.

To each his own and that's cool.

I wonder, do you think that Mike gets some deep down personal satisfaction when John sings "Forever" and erases Denny's shining moment from the show?

You can`t erase something that isn`t normally present in the first place. When Stamos isn`t there they don`t play Forever anyway...

But Stamos surely still would have been there if Al had. The point was that no special emphasis was ever going to be placed on the special guests, other than Stamos I guess.

Haven't they sometimes been doing the C50 version singing along to Dennis? It's possible in some cases the presence of Stamos literally preempts the Dennis tribute.

Maybe he would. But how do we know they would have placed no emphasis? From photos put up after the show of Stamos? If it had been something of a reunion then that would have been a bigger deal. David being with the band means nothing to most people sadly.

Have they?

I think they soundchecked it, I don't believe they've actually done it in a show.

Clearly it’s a case of “we’ll never know.” But here’s what we do know: Stamos likely would have been there. The setlist was constrained to a shorter length. The other special guest, Dave, was not prominently featured and was given one lead vocal. I feel pretty safe in guessing that, had Al appeared, he would have sang “Rhonda” and perhaps one or two others, and would have also been in the background as Dave was. I don’t think a damn thing would have been different about that show if Al had been there, other than Al being on stage, strumming rhythm guitar (way low in the mix if at all), and singing a few leads. Stamos would have detracted as he always does, only it would have been more ironic and offensive (to some fans) given the rarity of the lineup on stage. I say this less to chastise anyone involved with the show, and more out of irony considering how much acrimony was involved in the lead-up to the show. Al was never going to figure prominently into the show, and I’ve been saying for a while now that my main apathy toward Al joining Mike’s band is that Al would probably not be given a particularly prominent role.

Let me be clear that out of all the available drummers, I would pick John Cowsill as well. That being said, I would think part of his appearance on C50 was due to negotiation/politics, for Mike to at least get a couple of his guys in the band. I’m sure Brian dug playing with Cowsill too, but I doubt Brian started off by demanding Cowsill. How many times had Brian met Cowsill or heard him play with Mike’s “Beach Boys” prior to C50? Again, I think Cowsill was an excellent choice, and he’d be my first pick for another reunion tour, and I would think Brian approved highly of his playing. But let’s be honest with ourselves about what goes into picking any of these musicians, especially when we’re talking about the political minefield that was/is C50.

As for his drumming, I could pick about a hundred points in the show that demonstrate his drumming expertise without pointing out the opening to “Do It Again”, which is a pretty basic intro that every drummer in BB history has been able to do perfectly well. Not sure how that demonstrates drumming prowess.

Back to Stamos, I will absolutely grant he won the band some new fans in the 1988-1994 timeframe or so. That has pretty much nothing to do with whether he needs to be prominently featured at a show in 2014. I’d say the same thing if the Fat Boys got on stage and rapped through the entire show. Again, even Stamos has said he *understands* why people are annoyed by him being there.

My apologies if it’s never been done in concert. I do recall the reports of it being rehearsed at soundcheck. Reviews of Mike’s shows are sporadic here, so I don’t know if there might be any references to this being done in concert.

Cmon... There's no way Al would have been pushed to the back if he were at that show. He and Bruce would have been flanking Mike.

I certainly didn’t mean literally pushed to the back of the stage. I would imagine he would have been on the “front line.” But he wouldn’t have been featured very prominently, certainly not much more so (if at all) than Scott Totten or John Stamos. Whether that’s fine with some fans is certainly up for debate, but again, I was simply referencing the irony of all of the acrimony surrounding Al’s participation in light of how he wouldn’t have been very prominently featured most likely.

Having been a Pre-K teacher during that Kokomo era, what I can speak to are the demographics of those kids, who are the same ages as my own kids. No one was more shocked that The Beach Boys were on a sitcom than I.  My kids were calling from another room that "Uncle Jesse had The Beach Boys on!"  

It would be foolish to suggest that "some new fans" were won.  That does no one justice and just check out the global syndication and viewership.  I would bet that John Stamos has a facial recognition factor that outguns many political leaders.  Shows like Seinfeld, Cosby, and Full House make these "reruns" prime viewing for young people.  

What I do know is that there are millions of new fans, who are and have been watching these shows in many countries and languages and The Beach Boys became stars all over again for new generations.  That is Stamos.  And he is a star, like it or not.  

But, I got the sheet music (easy version) and the kids would learn to skip to it.  And I got PAID for it. It is a great country.  Uncle Jesse!  And in 2014, those fans who were four in the late 80's and some have kids of their own. Guess what they watch? Full House, complete with the mullet hairdos and The Beach Boys.  And, yes, Stamos is appropriate for these shows.  He had the one lead (Forever) that he helped popularize and resurrect for two new generations of fans.

Stamos introduced Dennis Wilson to this generation.  Sorry.  I respectfully disagree.   ;)

I don't even know how to describe it. It was outside in this pavilion-thing, with a few tables and chairs here and there. There was a "bar" which was really just a fridge filled with soda, cheap beer, and wine. First drink was free, after that... well, I paid $12 for a Budweiser! There were a couple of large posters (I wouldn't know how else to describe them) - one with a timeline of the band's history (clearly approved by Mike, as their recording of the MIU Album was listed on there as a significant event in the band's history), the other with a list of albums that were released in the US, along with pictures of the album covers that went gold or platinum. In the corner of this poster was a video screen, playing some Beach Boys footage I'd never seen before (but that doesn't mean much, I'm hardly an expert).


All in all it was a nice homage to the band's history, but I was hoping for an actual club-like atmosphere. Maybe in the future they should make space for a dance floor and play the disco version of Here Comes The Night... would have been nice to bust out my dance moves  :afro

I’m pretty sure we hashed out the “Full House demographics/ratings/syndication” debate some time back. That factor is there, but I think you’re simply hugely overstating it. I lived through that era too. More to the point, it has nothing to do with whom should be on the stage (or who fans *expect* to see on stage) at a Beach Boys concert. Do swarms of fans ask for refunds when Stamos doesn’t turn up at the shows? If the people who “turned us on” to their music need to be on stage, then Dick Clark and Casey Kasem should have been touring with them for decades too.

It’s also worth noting that when asked about these issues in that interview last year, Stamos himself offered none of the excuses/justifications you are. Rather, his attitude was pretty much “I would be annoyed too if I was in the audience, but I love their music, and who *wouldn’t* play on stage if given the chance?” I agreed with most of his points, other than the “who *wouldn’t* play on stage with them?” The answer is, many wouldn’t. Even David Marks would sometimes demur when asked to jump on stage with them in the 80’s and 90’s, and he had more relevance to their music than Stamos does.

I’m loathe to lump groups of fans together, but I think Stamos’ appearance on the C50 tour is a decent test of what type of fan one might be. If you come away from that thinking “Hrrmm, that was kind of tacky and hammy, kind of inappropriate”, that’s one type of fan (and these fans aren’t all “Brianistas” or “sticks in the mud” or anything else), and if you came away feeling it was fine and appropriate and Stamos should have been handed some leads too, then that’s another type of fan.

Thank you for that story and your points. It would be interesting to see just how many fans "discovered" the Beach Boys (and Dennis Wilson) through John Stamos' performance of "Forever" on Full House. I think it would be a lot more than people give him/it credit for, especially on this board. Obviously the credit goes to Dennis Wilson and Stephen Kalinich in addition to John Stamos, but I would venture a guess that Stamos' performance/version of "Forever" is more popular and more well-known than any song that Brian Wilson has written, produced, or performed in the last 37 years.

Full house is campy relic of the 1980s, not a classic show in my opinion. The BBs at their artistic low point are forever associated with it. I really think it was the 30th box and the PS box that brought them back.

Stamos also acknowledged in that same interview that that era "was not their heyday." I think Stamos understand pretty well his place in relation to the group. He doesn't strike me as feeling justified in playing on stage. He simply enjoys it.

Bob Saget's new book is funny in how much he hated making the show. There is a story in book how he, Stamos, and coulier did reddi-whip from the actual cans used as props on one episode.

But his version of "Forever" was on the SIP album, which failed to enter the TOP 200 chart. It was also released as a single, where it may have only briefly showed up in the AC charts.

Many were *exposed* to Stamos' renditions on TV, some even enjoyed them. But nobody sought out and purchased his rendition of it, which was released with his and the BBs names. If it had been even a decent-sized pop culture phenomenon, the album would have at least cracked the TOP 200.

One version on YouTube has 154,00 hits. Another has 1,550,669 hits. One has 248,000 hits.  The Jimmy Fallon Late Night with Jesse and the Rippers has 3,531,405 hits.  Seriously?

Dennis' version had 166,568 from Central Park.  Another had (1971) 110,468 hits.  Just sayin'... ;)

SIP is a distractor to the real issue here.
 

Campy or not, it is loosely based on the French film Trois Hommes et un couffin(1985) which was borrowed for Three Men and a Baby.  It grossed millions. And millions.  And it is still in demand for non-violent TV for children.

Saget might be critical now, but I bet he still cashes the check, despite the antics behind the scenes.

means absolutely nothing

I actually wouldn't mind Stamos making an occasional appearance to sing "Forever" and jam along with the band as a guest. What I do mind is Stamos becoming a "star" feature of a Beach Boys concert, singing hits he had absolutely nothing to do with, while those who actually made the music remain marginalized.

Stamos is a blight on the band and its legacy. There is nothing positive he has ever done for the group, in any way, shape or form. The fact that he continues to appear with the group is a testament to Mike's massively misguided approach to the Beach Boys brand and its value. People were laughing at Stamos in the crowd. It's almost as though Mike wants, in some subconscious way, to sabotage any respect or acclaim the band might still receive.

What musician would not want 3 million hits? It is an indicator of popularity and interest.

Is that how you judge music? by youtube views? sales count?

I dunno wanna get all "music is an art form" here...but ya know...it is

Wirestone - that is a strong feeling. But it isn't substantiated in my vies. Brian appeared on FH.

Maybe the people in the crowd were laughing because they had worn mullets, too, and it was during that clip of the video. They didn't laugh at the snapshot in black and white of Carl singing with Stamos.

Jimmy Fallon's popularity.   Not that the pumped up "reunion" wasn't a favorite of 80's TV fans, but comparing concert footage that was uploaded under the radar with the Fallon show's big numbers leaves the NBC late night publicity machine out of the equation.

I would be fine if Stamos just introduced the band and appeared in the encore. Instead he hams it up with Mike and plays rockstar to the detriment to the music and BBs legacy. Stamos is a relic of the dark years of the band's artistic bankruptcy and lack of legacy.

It would likely have been removed if it was uploaded under the radar for copyright infringement. Someone (3 million someone's sought it out. ) People don't have to like him, but he deserves his due.  Stamos often sang Forever, on tour. And if I remember correctly Carl was running the band, at the time. If BRI didn't want them to appear it likely would not have happened.  But, it must have caused a benefit to flow to them and a reassurgence in popularity.  The numbers speak for themselves.  It got them a captured family-based audience.  And some fans hate him for that ? He is their biggest fan.

The Kokomo era was one of rediscovery of the band's work. It wasn't Pet Sounds, but it might have opened the door for new fans to discover all the gems.

Maybe it is not "politically correct" around here to have this position, but it is an open forum... ;)

Robert Reed hated doing the Brady Bunch too.

I read about that, he absolutely HATED doing that show. He would fight with directors and try to rewrite the scripts.

Total agreement here. In fact, I bet Mike took the Stamos exclusion from C50 (post the NYC shows) as a personal affront, a challenge to his ego, to his concept of the "brand". As long as you have John Stamos dancing about and strutting it on stage at a Beach Boys concert, the Beach Boys become a j-o-k-e. A humiliation. A spent force.

Who knows how contentious the discussions were between Mike and the 'other guys' when they suggested that Uncle Jessie 'give it a rest'. It was probably then that Mike thought '@#$ this'.

It is neither legally nor logically the case that something is only “under the radar” if it has been pulled from YouTube due to copyright infringement. Much if not most of what is on YouTube is technically copyright infringement. It’s just a matter of whether the rights holders enforce it.

As for SIP, it is not a distractor at all. It’s 100% appropriate to discuss when we’re talking specifically about Stamos and his remake of “Forever”, and how popular it was. As others have suggested, YouTube views aren’t a great measure of much. I watched a guy reviewing Godzilla toys on YouTube that has tens of thousands of views for each of his videos. Does anyone on the street know who “GodzillaMothraFanBoy2356” is? The point is, how much somebody likes something can, to some degree, be measured more by how much money they’re willing to shell out to buy it. People will click on a free YouTube video of anything. How many bought Stamos’ song on CD back in 1992? So few that there were *at least* TWO HUNDRED albums on any given week that people bought more copies of. CD sales should have been *higher* then, since there was no internet to listen/watch for free and no way to illegally or legally download the song.

If Stamos were serious about being a singer or musician, or if he had a following of fans that go to see him in concert, then he would be booking tours. 

Stamos has a certain level of celebrity. That has nothing to do with the Beach Boys. Sometimes I hedge too much. Wirestone is right, and picked the perfect word. Stamos is a blight on the Beach Boys brand/legacy/history. I can’t say it’s a bad thing if some young folks got “into” the Beach Boys (and by “into” I mean actually used it as a gateway to really get into the band, not just to nostalgically remember “Kokomo” twenty years later) through Stamos and Full House. But this idea that swarms of younger fans going to shows now are hardcore “Full House” fans who are now hardcore Beach Boys fans is overstated.

Stamos is, in fact, quite useful in demonstrating the chasm between two of the band’s fanbases, and also the chasm between some members of the band. Mike’s band (presumably) likes playing with Stamos. Mike likes playing with Stamos. Brian’s band were, reportedly, off-put by having Stamos on stage, and Brian has never invited Stamos into his band. It isn’t totally simplifying things to go back to the idea that Brian’s band are uber-BeachBoys-nerds who dig playing “Pet Sounds” and “Smile”, while Mike likes to get girls dancing in stage, cheerleaders on stage (in the 90’s, yes, I know), and telling the audience that the real reason the Beach Boys are cool is because they guest starred on a 25-year-old sitcom with John Stamos.

oh god

Bruce and his stage antics ^^

Back with the Brady Bunch comparisons.  Davy Jones famously guested on the Brady Bunch and sang "Girl" which was his then-current single. Did it chart? No. Did it sell any significant amount? No, not really.  The Brady's weren't that big during the show's first run and lasted 5 seasons.  In terms of  "quality television" (read:critically acclaimed), BB wasn't even in the same stratosphere as All In the Family or Mary Tyler Moore or MASH.

But during its syndication run, it became even more popular than it was during its run spawning a cottage industry of everything Brady including several made-for-TV films and a dramatized update of the show featuring the original cast and characters, two feature films, memoirs from various cast members and even a stage show.  To the Brady cult, one of  the most popular pieces of minutiae is the Davy Jones appearance.  Davy recreated his guest role in the stage show and performed "Girl" in the feature movie which by that time (the mid-90's)  meant that despite not having been a hit song,  "Girl" was now a popular enough number that Davy put it in his own solo shows and Monkees shows until  his death.  And it was always well-received by his audiences.

Full House shared many similarities with the Brady's. Both shows were pariahs to discerning TV viewers (a fact not lost on Miller-Boyett - they told the show's writers "OK, you'd rather  write for  Seinfeld or Cheers?  OK, take that sensibility and apply it to our show"). Both were popular among families and both featured beloved 60's pop stars in famous guest appearances.  full House is to Gen Y and younger what the Brady's were to Gen X, a fondly remembered childhood favorite.  Since it went off network TV in 1995, it has been a huge staple in reruns. Still. To this day.  The Olsen sisters owe their financial empire to Full House fans. Bob Saget tours constantly and his audience is the Full House audience who aren't insulted by the fact that their favorite TV dad hated telling corny sitcom jokes to their younger selves.  John Stamos has never been out of work for the last 20 years whether it be Broadway, made-for -TV films, ER, Glee. Hell, Stamos reunited with Saget and Dave Coulier for a yogurt commercial that aired during the Super Bowl. The freakin' Super Bowl!  And that fan base knows the Beach Boys. They may not be Brianistas. May not even care about SMiLE, but they do know who they are and John Stamos singing that Dennis Wilson song from side 2 of Sunflower is their equivalent of Davy Jones singing "Girl" to Marcia Brady*.  As cring-inducing as the Stamos-Love bromance can be to some of us, I can't really find it in my heart to want to wish  someone's childhood memory away simply because that image doesn't fit my own personal image of what the Beach Boys are and should be.

People are nostalgic for the 90’s now the same way they were nostalgic for the 70’s in the 90’s. That’s all fine. Plenty of people remember Stamos and Full House, and some (but fewer) remember the song he sang, and some (but even fewer) remember it was a Beach Boys song. And?

Preferring Stamos not shoehorn his way into a starring role on a stage with the remnants of the Beach Boys (and the larger BB band going back to the 80’s and 90’s) is not denying his celebrity, or the nostalgia some people have for their memories of him and his shows and his BB connection. I’ll laugh through the BB’s poor acting on an episode of Full House, that’s all fun. Reminisce all you want. Join his fan club. Watch his TV shows. But would hardcore Full House fans want a reunion special where half the original cast is gone and the Beach Boys are in every scene, displaying poor acting skills? No, of course not. Well, actually, I think that would be hilarious. Nevertheless, the problem isn’t with Stamos per se, but with his schtick on stage. Even if he had scored multiple #1 hits with the Beach Boys, many would consider his stage presence tacky. The fact that he is a footnote in their history, and is more well known among fans for being “that Full House guy that Mike keeps letting prance around the stage” doesn’t speak too kindly to his relevancy to the Beach Boys.

I am not passing judgement one way or another about how appropriate it is for Stamos to flaunt his BB association.   When he was on Jimmy Fallon, what was the first song Uncle Jesse played? "Forever".  The BB connection IS important to that show's fan base just as Davy Jones's connection was important to Brady lore.  The only difference is that you never saw Maureen McCormick singing onstage with the Monkees.

The Beach Boys connection may be important to Stamos/Full House fans, but clearly the Stamos/Full House connection is NOT important to many Beach Boys fans. Some despise it, some tolerate it, some are ambivalent, some and very few seem to enjoy it.

I would also tend to think that actual Stamos fans enjoy seeing and hearing *Stamos* sing “Forever”, as opposed to enjoying seeing a Beach Boys concert or listening to “Sunflower” or something.

The Stamos/Beach Boys pairing isn’t some sort of amazing, no-brainer, musical/multimedia union that makes total sense. This isn’t the David Lee Roth/Sammy Hagar tour. This isn’t the Traveling Wilburys. It isn’t one of those Styx/Foreigner/Journey joint tours. There’s not nearly as many true, hardcore “crossover” fans between Stamos and the Beach Boys. Further, by the admission of Stamos himself, a large segment of Beach Boys fans don’t like him and are annoyed by his presence with the band.

I like the idea of Stamos being a fan and a champion of the BB’s work. If the “Rolling Stone” article is to be believed, Stamos was a bigger fan of the ending suite of songs on “TWGMTR” than Mike was. But he could champion their work in many, many ways without becoming a defacto member of the group, or making TV movies that slant the story and go over like a lead balloon with fans and some of the band (again, Stamos seems to be aware that the 2000 miniseries was a mis-step). He could be like Seth McFarlane with that “Cosmos” TV show. Stamos could be lobbying the labels to release more BB archival material (he clearly has Mike’s ear to some degree in fact), he could be telling people in interviews about amazing BB music nobody seems to be aware of.

"he could be telling people in interviews about amazing BB music nobody seems to be aware of. ".

Well, it wasn't an interview, but he kinda did introduce that one relatively obscure Dennis Wilson ballad to the masses.

From what I read, Stamos wasn't a huge fan of the show and, like Saget, did it for the paycheck.  And  he was rumored to have exhibited almost-Robert Reed-like bouts of diva behavior on the set.  But he clearly had his bosses' ears since various BB made appearances on that show long after TV producers started passing them up.  When he wanted to sing a BB song on the show, he could have chosen any of the hits. In fact, the first time "Forever" was sung on the show, it was the episode where Stamos marries Lori Loghlin. He could have chosen any of the BB hit ballads. They could have sung Fun, Fun, Fun in a wedding reception scene. But he chose a Dennis song from one of the BB's worst selling albums.  I know BB  fans generally hate him. I wish he would tone the hamminess too. I hated the miniseries as well. And I have no clue if this Full House fans went on to become Sunflower fans or not. But I do know there is crossover between the Monkees fan base and the Brady fan base.  I would not be surprised at all if the FH fan base had a BB contingent, even if a subset of BB fans have no use for Stamos and FH.

You would think after so many years of playing with the Beach Boys and other acts, he'd try harder to play better. He's also joined America on stage, backed up Tom Jones at a private gig some weeks ago that got some coverage, and probably has played with other bands. He's been playing for years. He either has no natural talent or he never practices, or both. Every time I've heard him play drums, he's not even in a league with the kid that used to play Ricky Ricardo.

I know I'm in the grand minority here, but I really don't mind Stamos playing with The Beach Boys. He's been doing it since, what? 1987? And people are still bitching?

The Beach Boys are a serious band, but they're also a fun band. Obviously hardcore Beach Boys fans would rather concentrate on the "serious" aspect, while Mike has continually chosen the "fun (fun fun)" side.

Concerts are supposed to be entertaining, right? Stamos is an entertainer. Casual Beach Boys fans (the great majority of people who attend Beach Boys shows) want to be entertained. And having Stamos dance around the stage is more entertaining than seeing Randall Kirsch standing completely still in his cowboy hat playing bass and singing falsetto. Stamos is the worst musician on stage, obviously, but Mike's an entertainer too, and he wants his audiences to leave happy.

It probably helps that I was a kid when Full House was on, and I loved watching it. But Stamos has legitimate ties to the Beach Boys, he's been playing with them for over 25 years and he makes the band more entertaining for casual fans. Whatever. It's kind of sad how anti Stamos some Beach Boys fans are.

NRBQ is pretty entertaining too. And Terry Adams acts like a total LOON behind the piano (a personal favorite of mine btw), but here's the difference...they're not playing air guitar. They're not aping for the camera. They're playing their ass off. They BELONG there. @#$% Stamos. Put me in that category of BB fan. That's how I feel.

What cameras are Stamos aping for? Local photographers? He's aping for the fans. If Carl Wilson didn't have a problem having him around, I don't mind having him around.

Stamos sang one song so I think you`re overstating things somewhat.

If Al had been there then he could have sung Rhonda, Sloop, Wouldn`t it be Nice (if he`d wanted to), the bridge of Surfer Girl and that one or two of Then I Kissed Her, Come Go With Me and California Dreamin would have been included. Looking at the setlist that Brian played on that day, I certainly don`t think it was the set list (which may not even have been discussed) that caused Al to play with Brian and his son instead.

Nobody in the UK gives a sh*t or has even heard of John Stamos.

If I were offered a chance to get on stage with the band and I knew that the (remaining) band members wanted me to be there and the vast majority of the audience would cheer then I wouldn`t let the thoughts of some hardcore fans (who make up a tiny percentage of the audience for an M&B concert) bother me too much.

As for Stamos`s influence...I`ve personally met people who have said that The Beach Boys are their favorite group and that it was Stamos singing Forever that started it. No, that doesn`t mean that they immediately went out and bought Sunflower but they went out and started with a best of as most fans do and worked their way through some other albums.

I agree with this point of view or philosophy. I would like to see John Stamos' featured ONLY on "Forever". He does a good job on it. I think what "persuades" Mike to give him more stage time is because the audience's reaction to Stamos is so overwhelmingly positive. At every show I've been to with Stamos (admittedly only a few), he was well-received; the applause was quite loud - before AND AFTER his vocals. I'd even venture to say that more people knew John Stamos (' name) than anybody else on stage with the exception of Mike Love, actually including Mike! :o

Every once in a while we have a thread about how we first became aware of The Beach Boys. I'd think John Stamos as a means to discovering The Beach Boys through Full House and his other TV shows numbers in the hundreds of thousands over 30 years.

He was annoying at shows when Carl and Al were still in the band too. I've made my own mind up that, from an audience perspective, it's distracting and tacky. I don't know how much Carl enjoyed having him there, versus tolerated it, versus who knows what. But even if it was Carl's personal idea to have him there, it was/is still tacky.

Concerning the setlist, I think that's a lot of assumptions. I don't think the show would have been much different, and I doubt Al would have sang particular songs simply because he "wanted" to. Even during C50, he mentioned having to "ask Mike" to include songs in the setlist. The setlist was hindered by the time limit; I don't think they would have added extra songs for Al.

But the setlist is just one piece of the puzzle, whether we're talking about Stamos or Al. Stamos doesn't come on and sing a song and then depart. He hams it up for much if not most of sets, in some cases. I've seen how silly it looked juxtaposed with the C50 band, and I think it even seems silly within the context of Mike's stage show.

Stamos says himself in that interview that essentially that is what he does, he goes on stage because he likes it. He doesn't care what the fans think clearly.

As for band members, it's obvious Mike and Bruce are fine with him. I think C50 was a case where maybe some band members weren't, but Stamos was there because Mike wanted him there. I suppose it's possible Stamos went to all the members and said "I don't want to take away from the celebratory element and focus on the group; are you cool with me playing most of the show on stage and hamming it up with the audience?", but I somehow doubt that occurred. I'd be curious to know what, if any, message was conveyed to whom after that show.

As for fans turned on to the BB's by Stamos, as I've said, that's great. Doesn't mean he needs to be on stage with them, especially when he's totally superfluous and unneeded. I've attended shows where "old friends" of the artist drop in and shake a tambourine or maybe sing a song. Stamos immediately slips into the role of full-fledged member of the band. To some, that's jarring, perhaps more so as the number of "original" or "core" members on stage have eroded. I didn't have to deal with it during C50, so I say this all observationally.

Of course Stamos is unneeded or unnecessary, musically speaking. 99% of the audience don't know what or how he is playing anyway. They could care less. He is to be seen and only occasionally heard. But that's not really Stamos' role anyway.

John Stamos is being used by Mike Love, not that John could care, and not in a bad way. It is just another attempt by Mike Love to give the audience a little something extra, something more than just watching/listening to the band performing songs, a conversation piece if you will. Mike's been doing that for decades, as misguided as he occasionally has been. Stamos is "parking lot" and "water cooler" material. When people are walking to their car after the show, they will mention Stamos being there, and I would think positively. When they go to work the next day and are standing around the water cooler discussing The Beach Boys' concert they saw last night, they will mention that John Stamos was there and sang "Forever", again positively. That's all Mike is trying to accomplish.

Maybe he would if he knew Stamos shared his affection for Reddi Whip.  ;)

Shouldn't we be blaming this on Dennis who threw a knife or something at fanboy Stamos sending him to the (relatively) safer arms of Mike?

I think that makes sense, and it probably speaks to done of the reasons he was apparently ill at ease concerning elements of the C50 tour.

Mike, according to this scenario, wants people to come away talking about John Stamos after a Beach Boys show. Others perhaps want the music and performances of actual band members to be the topic of discussion.

I think it might be as simple as, Stamos is a friend who also happens to be a musician and something of a household name. If he's hanging around at the show, why not have him come out for a song or two?

Yes, exactly! That's what Mike wants to happen as a result of having John Stamos there. You mention actual band members....It's sad but with Carl and Dennis deceased and Brian and Al not being part of The Beach Boys, the actual members aren't the focus anymore. It IS the music, no doubt about that, but Mike wants to OCCASIONALLY add a little personality to the show I believe, something different, just to spruce things up a bit. That's what Stamos does. I view that as a positive, not a negative. No offense, Scott or John. :police:

You also mentioned an ill at ease feeling during the C50 tour. If you took a poll of the audience at a C50 show that Stamos was playing, and asked the audience who they could name - Brian Wilson, Mike Love, Al Jardine, Bruce Johnston, David Marks, or John Stamos, where do think Stamos would fall in that poll?

When the C50 tour was announced, a major music-head friend of mine at work stopped me in the hall and asked "Hey, are you gonna go see The Beach Boys?" I said, of course and he goes "They're all gonna be there! ALL The Wilson brothers! Even the ones who quit in the 60's" ...... That might, unfortunately sum up even the most casually educated mass-public fan.

Mission accomplished!

That's not what has often happened. He sometimes joins them on tour, and often stays for much or most of the show.

Your scenario is what I have been saying seems more appropriate in my view.

Again, I don't go to these shows, so my trepidation is mostly observational. Mike wants Stamos there. I think Stamos is, again borrowing Wirestone's term, a blight on the band's history. But that doesn't matter.

Depends on what you mean by fans doesn`t it. Does he care about what some hardcore fans on the internet think more than the thousands that are applauding him at the concerts?

No and I doubt many would.

It used to, LOL

I totally acknowledge that that guy isn’t getting booed at the shows. There may be some folks bemused or annoyed by his appearance at shows; there’s something to be said for it being more an attention-getting device than something wholly positive for the band’s image overall. Nevertheless, I concede he gets some adulation from the audience (no doubt one of the main reasons he does it), and little if any negative feedback at the actual shows.

But I also don’t buy that Stamos reads about himself on Beach Boys-related internet forums regularly. Yet, he seems *keenly* aware that a contingent of fans are off-put by him. So he has to be getting this information from somewhere. I would guess that he understands too that, in some corners of fandom and in the industry, Mike isn’t always admired, so he’s aware of that direct association as well. He also acknowledged in that interview that the era of the band with which he is associated was not their golden era or heyday.

Nearly *any* public figure has a contingent of people on the internet saying negative things. Stamos didn’t refer to internet fans. He referred to “hardcore Brian Wilson” fans, and also made a more general reference to the fact that, if he were in the audience, he would be off-put too. As I’ve been saying, Stamos is much more aware of the (perceived) negative side of his participation with the Beach Boys than many may assume. But he contends that people don’t realize he’s a huge fan of Brian and of the band. I never doubted that, but maybe others did, I don’t know.

But it is very clear that whatever naysayers that are around or Stamos perceives, he ultimately doesn’t care. That is quite true.

I realize it’s very easy for me to pontificate about what *I* would do in that situation, but I think my (and others’) personalities would dictate that if I actually had an inkling that some fans were annoyed by my presence, and I was known among some fans of my favorite band as a total tool, I would back off and maybe just hang out with the band backstage or come on for one song once in a great while, especially if I already have this ostensibly awesome life and career outside of the band. If I was such a huge hardcore fan of the band as Stamos claims to be, I would be more sensitive to what hardcore fans of *my* favorite band feel than what the “typical concertgoer” thinks, the ones who were excited because “all three Wilson brothers” were on the C50 tour. And again, Stamos actually is very aware not only that some are put off by him, but he understands *why* they are, as evidenced by referencing that he’d be upset if he went to a Beach Boys gig and saw Scott Baio on stage.

If people were just to do what hardcore Brian Wilson fans said then Mike would have retired and/or committed seppuku years ago. Life isn`t that simple...

You certainly are very passionate about shows that you don`t attend though.  ;)

Question:

Does anyone believe Stamos might post on this forum under a pseudonym? Or perhaps BB Britain (I don't visit BBB) might be more his speed, given Bruce's own proclivities.

The Bloo would probably be more than a little unpleasant for him, although this place can't be much better. Maybe he at least reads us-- the guy is clearly a hardcore fan.

What's his collection like? Does he own an original POB vinyl pressing? Smile boots? When did he buy Sunflower? Does he make his own custom track listings? What's his opinion on Smile RE: The Elements/Suites/the handwritten Capitol tracklist memo?

C'mon, Mr. Stamos. Stop lurking and become an honored guest. The heat may die down a little if we all knew you were reading.

Of course, somebody will probably pick apart the inaccuracies in "An American Family" on a point-by-point basis on your first day posting and drive you away Forever.  ;D

So Stamos realizes that the "hard core" Brian fans don't like him, eh?  I'm not sure you have to be a "hard core" fan to be put off by the way Stamos is presented in the concerts. I'm not a collector of rarities or Beach Boys minutiae like many of our experts here. I don't have booted music or every album or box set. I don't post on the Blueboard.  I do, however, appreciate what the band was and is and I know who the Beach Boys actually are.

I've been to concerts. Beach Boys concerts.  If John Stamos had come onstage acting like a rock star and taking the focus away from the band and music I came to hear, I'd be annoyed. Meanwhile, actual Beach Boys, whom I would love to see on that stage,  are off doing something else.  Maybe that doesn't frustrate Stamos, but it sure frustrates me.

Tell me, how is Stamos a blight on the band's history? I have not read anything where he was no more than a mention. He really has nothing to do with what they will be remembered for; their recordings. He is on one song on one album that even the band itself did not care to recognize during C50 promotion. So where is this a blight? It's an overreaction over something that is a "personal" dislike, and that is all.

I don't dislike Stamos as a person but Mike seems to think that having John on stage with "The Beach Boys" is more important than having actual "Beach Boy" Al Jardine on stage.

In my opinion, Mike calling himself and Bruce "The Beach Boys" is questionable enough for lots of us but when he parades out Stamos as an attraction for the band when Al could be playing with them every night, it once again feels as if Mike would rather ride the cheap Stamos thrill now as opposed to having a willing band member back onstage with the group on a regular basis.

It's almost as if Mike *doesn't* want to add credibility back to the band.  Nothing seems more real than actual members in the group.

I luckily didn't find the Beach Boys via Full House like some people did but I sincerely believe Mike enjoys Full House reruns more than he likes Smile!

In my opinion, I see blight.

The music is all that matters and is all that they will be remembered for. Stamos may be a blight to you, but be assured that he will not be a part of their musical history.

I liked the Boys before their cheesy, awkward cameos on Full House.  But I also liked Full House.  My kids now love Full House, and despite my best efforts to instill a love for the Beach Boys into their hearts, ultimately they came to it because of Full House.  My 8 and 10 year old now debate the order of Smile tracks and whether the Carl fly-in for the TSS version of Surf's Up was appropriate or not.  They got that from Uncle Jesse, not me.  I'm cool with Stamos.

I read that Carl was often very unhappy with Stamos appearing on stage with them. Or looked like that during the shows. I can't say that that is true and I don't remember where I'd read that. Somewhere on this board I guess

That's a really good point. I doubt Stamos plays for free... if only that money could be used to pay Al and bring him back into the fold, or even David...

The music is all that matters and is all that they will be remembered for. Stamos may be a blight to you, but be assured that he will not be a part of their musical history.
[/quote]

Yes, that's true for some but not all.  The music matters to all but the identity or direction of the band matters to the fans who care about more than the music.  For example, if your parents get a divorce and then remarry, you don't necessarily stop loving them but you certainly may not like who they are with or the direction they are heading.

Why should Stamos "hide" backstage? Because there are posters in cyberspace who think they can "wag the dog?" He has toured with them for about thirty years. He is hardly a newbie.

Most concertgoers don't make it their business to know or care what the not-so-silent minority feels.  There is a larger contingent of fans who actually have a ticket and attend, than those in cyberspace.  Most of us are inherently Brian Wilson fans.  The music can't be bifurcated in such a way that splits Brian from this band.  

And, I was actually at the show and have seen the Oikos snapshot onscreen more than once in the last several months.  And people find it hilarious.  If the commercial clips were not successful they would be pulled.  

If I listened to every pseudo-intellectual during college and grad school disparage my favorite band, who were not considered "cool" at the time, I would not be seeing them now.  And there are plenty of fans with advanced degrees who love the Touring Band, and clearly they aren't stupid people, either. But they don't get into his lower-than-a-bad-soap-opera disparagement that seems to be prevailing as of late.

And, so what if Al didn't perform.  Maybe, just maybe, he decided to be with his son, while he gets his feet wet with Brian's band, with the guy with whom he worked forming the band and who is a fellow BRI member.  

And yet, I never read this as a possibility to explain why he wasn't available to be at this show.  

It was a blast, particularly because it wasn't just The Beach Boys.  It was Felix Cavaliere, and The Lovin' Spoonful. A triple billing and a nice slice of the absolute best of that era in rock.

Yes, that's true for some but not all.  The music matters to all but the identity or direction of the band matters to the fans who care about more than the music.  For example, if your parents get a divorce and then remarry, you don't necessarily stop loving them but you certainly may not like who they are with or the direction they are heading.
[/quote]


But that was not what was stated. It wasn't a personal assessment. It was a direct "blight on their history". Meaning it as a fact, which it is not now, nor will it be in the future. Nothing I have read has stated that Stamos was either good or bad upon their career. He has been traveling with them for the past 30 years and if it hasn't sullied them by now, it never will. Rarely are bands judged on their concert personnel. It is always about the impact that the band made upon the music scene and that is most always their recorded output.

We shall respectfully agree to disagree!  :hug

I think we are getting into the realms of fantasy now...

When has Al said that he wants to play 100 shows a year with M&B?

And isn`t it a touch ironic that you are making this comment about a show that Al could have attended?

None of us know the full details of why Al chose to perform with Brian and his son instead but for it now to have been twisted into `Stamos appeared therefore Al was excluded is bizarre`.

Please point me to any book written so far that has Blighted the history of The Beach Boys due to Stamos being on stage with them. It has been 30 years, so if it really is an issue then there should be many out there to quote from if it is that big of an issue.

How did John Stamos get involved with playing with the Beach Boys? I read somewhere that he used to ride his bike around Mike's parents' house in Garden Grove, when he was just a kid, and Milton Love let him in the house to look at some of Mike's gold records. I've never read, though, exactly how he came to play with the Beach Boys or have them guest star on Full House.

Not that this answers your question but their appearance on You Again? preceded Full House...

Am I crazy or were The Beach Boys on "Home Improvement" as well?

They were, minus Brian, but with Matt.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6j0Dom1mUM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6j0Dom1mUM)

They should have just had their own sitcom!

"Bruce Johnston starring in: WHO'S WEARING THE SHORTS! Saturdays on ABC"

deleted.

One of my points has been that Stamos shouldn't perhaps demur when asked to play because of what others say or think. Rather, one can make the argument that it might behoove someone to come to that conclusion on their own, out of humility. The fact that, after he already makes the decision to horn in on the shows, he does so knowing some sort of contingent of fans (who have quickly been marginalized as "internet" nerds, etc.) are annoyed is only potentially a bit extra troubling.

He participates because he's a hambone. He does it for selfish reasons. He's honest about it at least. If fans of his appearances would do the same, well, it wouldn't really change anything, but maybe it would make these discussions a little bit less circular.

It's clear you're inclined to measure not only Stamos, but Stamos' relationship to the Beach Boys, based on yogurt commercials and YouTube hits. That's cool. Some who feel the Beach Boys are owed a bit more class than the current stage presentation afford them feel otherwise, that's all.

Does it need to be in a book to be true?  Do I need a fish hack to justify what many common fans think?

I've stated before that I don't dislike John Stamos but myself and I'm certain thousands of others around the globe (who were fans before the cheese set in) loved the band when they actually cared about the music, not cheerleaders and a non-willingness to continue to be creative.

I still love the Beach Boys but I don't view Mike and Bruce as the Beach Boys and I'm not apologetic about it nor will I be.  That's cool if you think Stamos adds something to the M & B showband but it doesn't sit well with all the fans, especially those that pre-date the "Stamos era."

Classic "Mike Lovers" defend the guy for what he does but he yaks about the importance of not devaluing or saturating the brand but other than pimping Stamos fans to buy another rehashed Greatest Hits CD, what value or artistic credibility does he bring to the show?  In the 5 or 6 times I haven't seen the Mike and Bruce Review, Stamos was there each time and I especially wouldn't have wanted to see him for god sakes, you're the Beach Boys!

In each of those shows, Stamos received almost as much advertisement time as did Mike and Bruce.  As a Beach Boys fan that makes you embarrassed that they need to ride Stamos' coat tails to get people interested.

Fans of the band don't need a book to tell them what's right and what's wrong, we make up our own mind.

Also of note in all of this I should remind those of you who's skin I seem to get under (not directed at you drbeachboy) that I am a fan of all the guys as The Beach Boys.  Post Carl, all of them have acted like idiots as far as I'm concerned and are all to blame for the drama.  Not just Mike, not just Al, not just Brian.  The fact that all of them (BRI) couldn't work something out after C50 is simply unreal.

Mike Lover or not, I find Stamos far less irritating or insulting than The Stones wheeling Keith Urban, John Mayer, Gwen Stefani, Lady Gaga, Dave Matthews out to cheese up one of their classic badass songs on their tours..... Stamos might be cheeseball ball but he's rather harmlessly so. He's not out there with The Beach Boys to prop up some fledging career! No, he's a friend and a ham and also a musician. Yeah, it can be irritating, but he's Mike's friend, so that's that. They could be bringing Adam Levine or John Mayer out at every show! ..... Would I rather have The Beach Boys all together busting out Holland and Carl & The Passions in their entirety every night and dressed just like they walked off the Don't Go Near The Water video or the back cover of Pet Sounds: sure? But it's not going to happen. It's gonna be Tommy Bahama, tiny white shorts, or the stupid Hawaiian/obnoxious/bright colored shirts Brian's band wears. The Beach Boys entire career has been an awesome stylistic mess! Too much so for everyone to be happy with all of it ever ...... For the record: Al certainly brings it style-wise when he wants to.

He wasn`t responsible for any of that though and if he hadn`t appeared at Jones Beach then the only change would probably have been to play a hit instead of Forever.

I haven`t really read many comments on this board praising Stamos or anything but he is harmless enough and it`s not like M&B are going to start playing Pet Sounds in its entirety if he fails to show up.

I observed that Carl seemed irritated by Stamos's presence when I saw the band play in Melbourne in '92. For instance, towards the end of "Surfer Girl," Stamos reappeared only to be greeted by the squeals of teenage girls, interrupting the flow of the song much to Carl's annoyance.

Look, people here can have their own opinions, but as a FACT, Stamos has not been a blight on their career or history. Stamos has not affected how rock historians look at their body of work. There is a big difference whether one believes something and whether it is actually so.

I would guess that a great many rock historians and critics do look down on the Boys due to the Stamos Effect, just not our in-house journalists (You know, Beach Boys fans who write great, well-researched and rigorously accurate books).

Nah.

If Stamos hadn`t been around from the mid-80s onwards then they would still have made mostly crap music, still have appeared on cheesy TV shows (Baywatch), still have recorded pointless remakes with other artists (Stars and Stripes, Status Quo), still have added the cheerleaders, still have looked like gimps on stage (Bruce`s shorts, Al`s ponytail, Mike`s dress sense), still have made awful music videos (Crocodile Rock) and still have toured with only one original member for the last 15 years (C50 apart).

Stamos could be looked on as a symptom for some things. But they would be viewed the same by journalists whether or no.

Those teenage girls....how dare them squeal....like the teenage girls USED TO DO for The Beach Boys in 1964....maybe Carl forgot that....I'm sure after the show Carl told Stamos to appear BEFORE the song begins to get the squeals out of the way.

Speaking of Carl and Stamos, was Carl forced to appear in the Stamos "Forever" video?

On a positive note, you know the way Beach Boy "insiders" read this board? Look at all the ammo we're giving them with this thread and the John Stamos blight factor on the Beach Boys' brand and legacy. They can use THAT in their case to wrestle the license away from Mike! :o

I’ve seen Stamos cited (and no, I can’t produce firm examples at the moment) in articles about the Beach Boys on occasion in a very snarky, dismissive way. For some fans/journalists/observers, Stamos is an embarrassing dot on the group’s career that is offered up as a snarky or smart-ass reference. I’ve rarely seen Stamos brought up positively in an article or feature relating to the Beach Boys unless the article in question is either an interview with Mike or Stamos, or an article plugging an upcoming show or tour from Mike.

No, he hasn’t ruined the group’s place in history. Serious biographies on the group will not make detailed mentioned of Stamos. But his *debatable* usefulness to the group of, I guess, turning all those kids who watched “Full House” onto his remake of “Forever”, was worn out twenty years ago. To many, including some press/journalists, he is remembered as the guy who played at the same show that the BB’s invited Mr. T to play at. He’s remembered as the guy who was prominent during the same era that the band used tacky cheerleaders for the stage show. He’s remembered as the guy who participated in some of the cheesy moments in their history, when they briefly had one more #1 single 26 years ago and they sang “Kokomo” and let DJ Tanner sing backup vocals on “Barbara Ann.”  

If we have to start justifying Stamos’ current association with the group based on yogurt commercials and “ironically sarcastically nostalgic” appearances on Jimmy Fallon (remember, isn’t this the same guy that got Zack Morris from “Saved by the Bell” to sing “Friends Forever” on his show?), then that doesn’t really help the case.

In case anyone can’t tell, I’m WAY more familiar with “Full House” (and apparently “Saved by the Bell”) than I should be. I can still watch some episodes of “Full House” and actually be entertained. I thought Stamos and Saget and Coulier could actually be funny on that show. I don’t dislike Stamos on his own. But associating himself with the Beach Boys long ago ceased doing the band any favors. Again, Stamos knows this himself based on his comments in my opinion.

Not a fact.

The holier than thou "historians" don't decide what you or I think about the band - if you read Rolling Stone and decide what albums to buy based on their reviews only then I get it but a majority of people are not that way.

Stamos has not affected how "rock historians" look at their body of work - if by that you mean their catalog of music then you are partially correct, although "vintage" historians about lost their mind when SIP came out with John's Forever included on it.

Stamos has not been a blight on their career or history - Uh, many people consider Full House the band's "jumping the shark" moment.  There are lots of people who think more about Stamos and the Beach Boys than the Hawthorne era of the Beach Boys.  His association with the band has undeniably altered how people perceive the group and understand this: to some people that's fine and I'm cool with that.  As I said before, I don't dislike John as a person so don't label me a hater, LOL.

I'm happy people dig the show that M&B do but I believe some of the issues with everyone's arguments are rooted in when you became a fan and for me, that is especially true.

I'm more surprised that they cut out Getcha Back (a concert staple that David could sing a nice lead on) but left in Pisces Brothers and Goin' To The Beach. I know the show was a shorter set but why not cut out one of those two songs most people in the audience wouldn't know? With what the setlist for the show was, I think having Al there would have just ended up a wasted opportunity.

As far as Stamos is concerned, I don't have any strong feelings one way or the other. I was born in 1980 so i grew up watching Full House. I remember seeing the episode with Forever and as a kid thought it was a lame performance and video. I also liked Home Improvement and thought the BBs looked cheesy being a little older than my dad and having cheesy clothes, ponytails, etc. I loved Kokomo as a kid but neither of those tv performances made me want to listen to anything else by the band.

From what I've seen on youtube, I think Stamos performing with the Beach Boys is cheesy. Unfortunately, most of the youtube videos I've watched of live performances from the 80's on seem cheesy with or without Stamos. I am glad that he was left out of 50th anniversary tour (as a whole) so that tour could be about what's important, the band and the music. I remember telling three people I work with that I was going to see The BBs during the 50th tour. First thing out of their mouth was laughter and "is uncle jesse" or "is Stamos" going to be there? I remember being shocked out how much great material this band has and that's the first thing someone brings up when mentioning The Beach Boys.

If the Mike and Bruce show came around Charlotte, NC where I live, I'd go see them if it wasn't too expensive. If Stamos randomly were to show up, I wouldn't really care at all.  I don't think it would take away from what the show would be without him. It's not like they were going to play All I Wanna Do or Deirdre but decided to cut it for Stamos doing Forever. If I went to a show, I'd rather hear Forever (in any given form) then Rock & Roll Music, Be True To Your School or a few others that are always on the set list.

So, one song on one album blights a 50 year career, huh?

I know Stamos will be mentioned in articles, but still, his appearances do not factor in their in history of studio or live performance. I get it with you, you don't like him, again I get it. To call his appearances a blight to their history is way, way overblown. Even if it did, it's been going on for close to 30 years. Unless their is a blow out between him & Mike, it isn't going to change. When I go to a show, I go to see the band and to hear the music live. I really do not care who tags along with them. Musically, Stamos has never ruined a full performance. At the shows that he has appeared that I attended over the years, most of the audience liked that he was there. Believe me, if they didn't Mike would have him off the tour quick. At this point touring is their bread & butter and Mike would not jeopardize that if the audience was annoyed by the appearances.
I seriously worry about fans who still at this point want to change who the Beach Boys really are. You can't change history. All you can do is accept it, continue to love the music and move on.

Great post! That is exactly how I feel about it, as well.

I don't think Stamos is a blight on the entire career of the band. That would negate all of the genius that went before and I don't think he's important enough to do that. However, I do think continuing to feature him in a band that is officially named "The Beach Boys" reinforces a general perception of cheesiness to the band's image that is unnecessary at this stage of the game. In C50 they were presented with class. They were the rock legends they deserved to be. Now they're back to catering to squealing middle-aged Full House fangirls. It's just sad.

Honestly, had the C50 lineup continued then I could see your point, but seeing as it went back to what to it was previously, I don't believe it affects anything. It's back to the status quo of the past 30 plus years. Again, in the future when looking back, it will be about the music, live performance and studio.

Ha, don't worry about me and as of today, who "really are" the Beach Boys?

I don't think Stamos is the worst thing Mike has done to annoy the audiences or the fans but again, that's cool.  When Carl checked out that ended things for me.  As I've said before, people can like whichever version of the Beach Boys is out there.  Al, Brian or the Mike and Bruce show.

As I noted before, we disagree on things and that's o.k., I don't like it but accept it.  I've never stopped loving the music and that's a tribute to the Beach Boys of the 60's, 70's and 80's.

I wrote this in another thread, but I'll restate it here and possibly ruffle some feathers. The legacy of The Beach Boys that will live on beyond even our lifetimes as we post here today will be the classic recordings of the 1960's. At least that's how I see it. I don't see a time where the legacy of the live shows in any form will come close to capturing what those 60's recordings continue to do for so many people who aren't even diehard fans. No matter how many shows have been played live and continue to be played live, I'd argue what are the highlights of those shows? What do fans come to the shows to hear, no matter how many "Beach Boys" or which Beach Boys are singing them on stage?

The classics from the 1960's.

When you have a band and a producer who creates such a unique sound and in the process created an entire mythology around California and both the ideals and idealism of both the region and what they were singing about to the point where the band and the mythology are linked forever no matter what the lyrics are actually about, and people gravitate toward those records because they invoke a good feeling or even a certain mindset as they listen, how can that be anything but the defining element of that band's career?

Some bands are "live" bands, name any like the Dead or whoever else. The legacy is in large part due to the live shows. But seriously, as people 40 years from now look back on The Beach Boys, will it be centered around shows they played in the 1970's, 80's, 90's, and beyond, or will it be some 12 year old kid listening to "I Get Around" or "Wouldn't It Be Nice" or even "Surf's Up" and getting that undefinable feeling that draws him or her into something beyond the experience of listening to the music?

I know there is a mindset where keeping the torch lit through endless touring and live shows can get equated with the records themselves, but ultimately I don't know how many future generations will be thinking about a 1977 concert or a 2012 concert when they're talking about the Beach Boys legacy. Is it good to have a chance to see and hear the music live as performed by original members? Absolutely! But that's not this band's legacy when such a powerful magic kind of music was created in the studio when these guys were in their teens and early 20's and creating some of the most evocative music of their era.

That was a great one!  :beer

Drbeachboy, too!   :beer

What do you mean by "demur?"

Thanks.

As in "to show reluctance." For instance, "Thanks Mike for asking me to appear on stage, but you guys are the show, not me, I'll just watch and enjoy the show and we can hang out after the show."

The example I used previously was David Marks. In his book with Stebbins, he mentions turning down opportunities in the 80's and 90's in some cases to jump on stage with them and instead would watch from the wings or in the audience.

A glaring point to make: The girls screaming at these modern BB's shows with John Stamos are not screaming for the Beach Boys. Simple as that. Where are the screaming girls at shows when Stamos isn't on stage? Where are the screaming girls at any BB's related show of the past three or four decades? They're screaming for Stamos. Otherwise the crowd is mostly there to hear the songs, and beyond that the classics.

An example: Stamos was on Broadway performing "Bye Bye Birdie" some time ago. Someone I know was walking around the theater district on a random afternoon when they heard some kind of chaos erupt nearby. There were girls running over, screaming, just a whole chaotic scene on the street. When they got closer, here it was Stamos walking on that street. He got mobbed by screaming girls who wanted photos, autographs, or just to see him up close. That's been his rep since he was on a soap opera in the 80's, that's his draw. So wherever he is, he gets those kinds of reactions.

As much as he's been friends with the band, as much as he enjoys playing the music with them, don't you think the appeal of having screaming girls at a BB's concert feeds into something Mike might want to hear and see on occasion as well? The difference is, the girls don't scream that way when Stamos isn't on the stage.

guitarfool2002, I love this: "Where are the creaming girls at any BB's related show of the past three or four decades?" I know it's a typo, but would love to see this, myself. ;)

Exactly. Stamos is the lingering after effect of when they "jumped the shark" as somebody else so astutely said (I was going to say "lingering stench" but it seemed a bit harsh. Then I said it, anyway).



Ewww

Haha!!! I just caught that...I had to correct it.  ;D

I've seen 47 BB shows in different variations. Each show with stamos on stage was better because the crowd is WAY more lively
 

I've never seen a show with him, and the crowds were always lively and sometimes transported. But then, this was mostly in the UK.

I reluctantly went to M&B show this week in Huntsville since I live here, I'm hard core BB since 76 and have seen the group and Brian probably a dozen times since then but not M&B. I must say the show was very enjoyable for a few reasons, watching the skills of Scott Totten and John Cowsill (they are incredible musicians) as well as the photo montage that runs throughout the show. Stamos was there and while the posing is tedious I don't think it stain's the legacy (the group has done that on their own over the years). I agree with the comparison of the Stones trodding out guests as an equal or worst offence.  It is however cold water to the face to realize that there are very few hard cores attending these shows which is obvious when Pisces Brothers garners the most applause and it is crickets (maybe just out of respect) when Carl is featured on GOK.  Again glad I finally went and credit Mike for hiring some great talent and producing an enjoyable video montage.

"Ive never seen a show with him, and the crowds were always lively and sometimes transported. But then, this was mostly in the UK."

I'm jealous almost every show venue in NY that I have attended forbids the fans from standing and dancing. It is the worst situation to be in.  How can 1000's of fans listen to Good Vibrations live and not dance???

I'll dig up my concert photos and post them so you all can witness my misery!!!

Realise i'm a bit late coming to this thread but... Jesus Christ, 'Goin' To The Beach' - as track 2?? Of all the songs... Can someone please remove Mike's head from his own anus please ASAP?

There`s a clip on Youtube from their recent show in Derry and the crowd actually give a really good response to this one. Seems fairly sensibly positioned as part of that opening group of surfing songs if they are going to play it.

Yep, I'd go along with that. I enjoyed it at the Jones Beach show. It's a fun, uptempo song that gets the crowd going.

Goin' to the Beach seems to fit nicely into the flow of that setlist. Plus, it's sort of a range-stretcher for Mike and probably good for warming up his voice for the show.

Ah, the old “I paid for a set, so I want to sit down VS. Rock and roll is about getting up and moving dancing” debate. I’ve seen this many a time on the interwebs. I think we had a few discussions here about that in the past as well.

Bottom line, dancing and standing in front of someone else, forcing them to stand if they want to see the show, is much more inconvenient and inconsiderate to those who don’t want to (or can’t in some cases can’t) stand versus how inconvenient it is for those who want to stand and dance to not be able to. Some people have medical issues that prevent them for standing for much or all of a show, medical issues that don't warrant taking a seat in the section reserved for wheelchairs, etc. If those people are stuck behind some ass who has to stand for the entire show, I'm very supportive of venues who prohibit this, even if the venue's reasoning is completely different.

My thinking is that if not dancing to music hinders your actual enjoyment of the music in question, then you probably enjoy dancing more than the music in the first place.