The Smiley Smile Message Board

A pooling of posts from several recent threads that hint something more than a Brian solo album in the future.











Ella award to Mike Love Feb 20. Mike, Dave, Al, Bruce.

(http://binaryapi.ap.org/6f071c96fb7946bd91e889f899878767/preview.jpg?wm=api)




Speculate at will people.

Congratulations - you've managed to draw exactly the wrong conclusion from all that data (excepting Matt's posts, most of which is frankly dubious - notably my observation).  ;D

I had missed Matt’s comments from that previous thread, so those are interesting to read in and of themselves.

Hardly strong evidence of a Beach Boys album, but still interesting. Does Brian always have Jeff or others do guide lead vocals for songs Brian will end up singing the lead on? That’s the only bit that makes it particularly plausible that this stuff is intended for something other than a Brian solo album. Even then, it sounds like last year’s sessions included Al singing some leads on songs that presumably would have or will be on a solo Brian album, so even in that case it could still just be all Brian solo stuff.

I’d love to think Brian and Joe Thomas are still trying to pitch material back to Mike to make another Beach Boys album, but considering that this scenario involves two of the main things Mike seems to have come away from the BB reunion not liking (namely working with Joe Thomas, and coming in to sing on stuff Brian has already written without Mike), this seems unlikely.

I’m not as 100% adamantly against the slim possibility that some sort of new BB project could be in consideration, but I would never assume anything on that count. It would be easy to twist things to fit this slim possibility. Mike talked in 2012 about giving the reunion a rest for 2-3 years to build up demand, so theoretically if they wanted to get something together for 2015, they’d probably have to start getting some stuff in order now, such as material for a new album. But again, the scenario Matt describes in the studio involves a number of things that Mike has specifically voiced displeasure with in his interviews, were this material to be intended for the entire BB group.

Mike didn't like it when Brian started working with Tony Asher. Or with Van Dyke Parks. Or with Joe Thomas. But in the end it never stopped him from singing on the songs that came out of these collaborations.

You know what this sounds like to me? Business as usual. It seems like people on this board have
pretty selective memory sometimes (no offense meant).

But these guys get in tiffs all the time but in the end they go back to making music with one another because they know they work well together.
Don't worry I won't quote mike here via "as for the past it's all behind us"
oops.


As for the 'new BB album' talk
If i ever listen to TWGMTR about one third through I think 'please don't let this be their last album' but as those
last 3 songs roll in i'm quite all right with it.

How is asking a question, drawing a conclusion?

A conclusion comes after answers have been given my dear Watson!

Mike has been a variety of levels of unequivocal about various things relating to the reunion, but one thing he has continued to hammer (some would suggest whine) is that he clearly feels he needs to “get in a room” with Brian and write, and he has several times pretty specifically said a future “Beach Boys” album is contingent on that in some form. He has also stated several times the obvious conclusion drawn from that desire as it relates to the “TWGMTR” album, which is that he felt detached/disconnected from the album that was written without as much as input from him as he would have liked.

I’m sure anything is possible, but given what Mike has said, and what seems to be several of the reasons he did not continue the reunion, I’d say an exact repeat of “Radio” on an additional album where Mike just comes in and sings songs written by Brian and Joe Thomas, is relatively unlikely. Ideally there would be some sort of compromise (although that compromise would have to go beyond what they did with “Radio”, where Mike got one of his solo tracks on the album plus lyrical input on several additional songs), and I would imagine Mike wouldn’t object to some amount of songs on a BB album without his input. I don’t think he necessarily would demand 12 Wilson/Love co-writes and nothing else.

Fans have for years been openly questioning just how “okay” Mike has been with Brian writing with other collaborators, but it is true he has sang the stuff when presented to him. A future BB album/reunion is different in that the group is not a going concern, so it’s not as if they just reconvene every so often to do an album, and Mike sings whatever is on offer. They have to entice each other to do stuff together.

I think it doesn't bode well that on a night Mike Love is honored in Beverly Hills with an award, Brian Wilson, who lives 10-15 minutes away, doesn't attend.  Say what you will about Al Jardine, but he did the right thing and showed up.

Maybe Brian's justification is that he wanted the focus of the evening to remain on Mike. It could have turned into a mini-circus if Brian turned up, with questions as to whether the BB's would reunite again.

You're assuming Brian would have been able to attend and opted against. We don't know that …

I can't speak for Mike, but I will.... ;D

After the members of the Love family, who do you think was at the top of Mike's proposed guest list? IMO, I think Mike would've been touched - maybe even moved to tears - to see his cousin Brian walk through the doors, embrace or shake hands with Mike, and attend this special evening OUT OF RESPECT FOR Mike.

Brian skips a lot of these things, for whatever reason. He skipped the California Hall of Fame thing from back around 2011 (that was just Mike, Al, and Dave), the Reagan show in 2011 that Al showed up at, he skipped the grammy luncheon thing all the way back in 2000 (where Mike and Al both showed up even though Al said afterwards he stayed away from Mike as much as he could; that was in the heat of their acrimony apparently).

Mike skipped the Hawthorne landmark thing back around 2005.

Sometimes these guys have other plans and can’ t make it. It’s probably a bit of everything in a lot of cases. They could probably squeeze in some of these things and make it if they really wanted to, but either out of awkwardness (avoiding it anyway) or ego or whatever, they bow out.

I also have a theory that, whether spoken or unspoken, the Beach Boys have rarely all been together at an event and do so (or don’t do so as it were) for a reason. Apart from the 50th reunion, how many times have all five of those guys (or even any combination of four including both Brian and Mike) appeared together in public since the late 90’s? There was the Capitol ceremony in 2006, and not much else.

Maybe Brian didn’t show up at this Mike event to avoid it having the weight of a “full reunion” in any way. I’m not saying Brian did it out of kindness as if to avoid “taking the spotlight” away from Mike. Rather, there would be hoopla and headlines and pressure if all five of the guys were together.

Or, maybe Brian or his handlers are pissed at Mike, even if just passively so. I’m sure similar sentiments have been possible at past Mike no-shows as well. I mean, it’s pretty obvious Mike bowed out of more reunion stuff because he was taking issue with Brian or at least all those around Brian. That’s a more drastic step (and more of a bummer for fans) than the possibility that Brian didn’t go to this Mike event because he or his handlers have taken issue with Mike or some of those around Mike.

It has been pretty apparent, to some fans anyway, that, to varying degrees over the years, Brian has not felt comfortable being around Mike. Whether justified or not, he has sometimes avoided Mike. I think Brian avoiding the “writing alone in a room” thing is a good example, not to mention Brian generally apart from “C50” not making a lot of appearances with any of the other BB’s apart from a dozen shows with Al in the mid-2000’s.  Again, he may or may not be justified in this, and he also has clearly (and perhaps seemingly randomly) found it relatively comfortable to be around Mike and/or the other guys.

That ^ is the worst rationalizing I have ever read. Not the way you wrote it, it was quite articulate, just the degree of rationalizing. None of it (the excuses you speculated on) makes it right.

With the possible exception of the Rock & Roll Hall Of Fame induction, this Ella Award is probably the most significant award Mike Love will ever receive. And, the Ella Award might be more important to Mike because it was based on charitable contributions. Is it safe to say that this might've been one of the important nights of Mike's life? Did you read the link about the Ella Award and the list of past winners?

Brian could've simple - SIMPLY - behaved the way he has for the majority of the last 40 years. He could've addressed any Beach Boys-related questions with a blank stare, a one sentence saying nothing, or having people run "interference" for him until he bolts for the exit.

Unless I've missed it there has been no detailed report out of the night. For all we know Brian may have had a message read out by someone, or even a private call or private message sent to Mike. I won't dump on an almost 72 year old guy with health issues for not turning up just yet. 

If he had an appointment to be someplace else that night, which I doubt, he should have cancelled and gone to the Ella awards to salute Mike.  A lot of people make excuses for Brian Wilson, but he seems pretty self centered and inconsiderate a good deal of the time.  Being famous doesn't excuse bad behavior.

....I did say "yet".


Hey agreed. Petty if he or his handlers were having a sulk. Put something up on his own board at the very least.

Although the removal of old band pictures during the M&B shows last year shows how silly things can get at times.

Mike never went to the kennedy center awards either to be fair.


Edit: Maybe Brian sent Jeff as a representative.

Good point, although the Kennedy Center was not a 10-15 minute drive from Mike Love's house.

I've created a separate thread to bundle and focus the discussion on Mike's Ella Award. Just click on Stamos' bow tie.

(http://oi58.tinypic.com/ok09cj.jpg) (http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,17233.0.html)

And, we don't know that Mike was even invited to the Kennedy Center Honors. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't recall seeing any Beach Boys there.

Brian is old and sick with a severe nervous condition.  That isn't an excuse it's a fact.   

Is this a new ailment? An old one from the mid-60's onward? Did he have it during the 2012 reunion tour? His last two tours with Al & David? His condition may be a fact, but it hasn't really held him back has it? Fact-no it hasn't. It being a fact is no excuse. ;)

Let's hope not.

It certainly becomes a head-scratcher when BW is the one living BB (Blondie/Ricky excepted) who doesn't show at Mike's big night.

I applaud Al and Dave for showing up.

My take on it is this: Considering what we know of the circumstances of the end of C50 (which admittedly we don't know all know the full details of), at the very least it can be deduced with a reasonable degree of certainty that the way things went down (with Mike taking control of the BBs name for touring purposes) must've left certain BB members feeling really hurt.

IMHO...

My guess is that Dave was bummed, but not "hurt" in a deep way.

I imagine Al was really truly bummed and had/has some BIG issues with Mike's actions and the way Mike communicated (or didn't). I'm sure there are some big C50-implosion-related hurt feelings/resentment that Al still has against Mike (I'd be shocked if not)... so, it is big of Al to put those issues aside and show up for this event.  Good for Al for being a bigger man and attending a very important event for his bandmate, even if he has some major, major issues with the guy. I'd almost say that Al was taking a cue from what Carl would've done in his shoes under the circumstances.  

Finally, I imagine that Brian felt most hurt by the way things went down at the end of C50. He is/has always been the most emotionally sensitive member of the band, and of all living members besides Mike, Brian surely has always felt the band ultimately was/is his baby at its core... which had to have made him feel all the more butt-hurt by the reunion falling to pieces in the way it did. While we don't all know the full reasons (except some insiders), I imagine Brian would place most of the blame (and the mind-bogglingly ridiculous public way it went down) with Mike.

Therefore, is it really that surprising that Brian would decide not to show up, since Brian surely has (and justifiably so, despite whoever of the usual suspects on this board are gonna refute this) the biggest chip on his shoulder against Mike these days of all living BBs? It sucks that he didn't show up, because it comes off publicly as looking petty, especially since Dave and Al put whatever issues they had aside. But ultimately, I think Brian was/remains hurt, for reasons that I presume are very, very real to him.  

Ultimately, I'm sure Brian has some regret about not going, especially knowing that Al/Dave went, as well as all the kids. But Brian stays away from situations that are really super emotionally awkward for him, such as the 2014 entity unfortunately known as the Fractured Beach Boys.

Basically, I think Brian and Mike are currently at a stalemate, where Brian would probably have come to the event if Mike had reached out and made some apologies to him about C50, etc. Beyond Mike's LA Times article. I really doubt Mike has reached out to Brian and acknowledged damage/pain that Brian probably felt was caused by Mike. And again, to the uber-Mike defenders, whether you guys want to agree that Mike has anything whatsoever in the world to apologize for, that doesn't really matter if Brian (as I presume he does) wants an apology from Mike.

The whole thing is just really f-in sad. It all comes down to the fact that regardless of the musical magic that they were able to create at their peak, the personalities known as Brian Douglas Wilson and Michael Edward Love were really not meant to be together as bandmates in a band (as people, not necessarily musically speaking). They just can't healthily communicate, ultimately want very different things, and those two guys cannot seem to avoid hurting each other, over and over and over again. As a huge fan of this band, it is painful to say that, but ultimately IMHO there ain't no way around it.

Yes, kudos to Al, Dave, Jeff and co for last night plus California Saga members.

This post C50 furore just doesn't go away though. I remember reading an Al story from about 02 and he mentions Mike with something like 'he is an interesting guy, its a shame I never got to really know him'. or words to that effect. A sad state of affairs after 40 years knowing each other. Obviously nothing had changed by 2012. No chance over 6 months for the group to clear the air, discuss the future or tell other members of their own hopes down the road?

Its tragic really.

The older I get, the less sympathetic I am to Brian Wilson and his "sensitivity."  Not that Mike is a flawless person, but Brian seems to have some #firstworldproblems, as they say in Twitter-ville.  As long as Brian is happy, though, I'm sure no one minds that Brian stayed away and binge-watched "House of Cards, Season 2" instead. He's the one who missed out on the steak and cake.

I get the feeling that Al would probably be in the touring Beach Boys if it didn't mean major cuts in pay for Mike and Bruce. It just doesn't make financial sense for them to include Al. It would lend them more "credibility," but that probably doesn't equate to bigger venues.

I would like to see David with them for sure. I know he played with them pre-reunion and him being there just adds some authenticity to the early surf rockers, plus he can throw in a Dennis song to sing. No reason he can't do that with both M&B and Brian if he has the opportunity to if money isn't a huge issue.

Maybe Al, Dave, Bruce and Mike together with Matt, Jeff and the ofhers took the opportunity to have an enjoyable night letti their hair down after some exacting vocal sessions, while Brian and Joe stayed home to get the album mixed ready for a surprise release this spring.

Mike was playing a gig on 12/2/07... And I doubt Jeff was Brian's envoy.

No, actually it's you with a hopelessly inept understanding of Brian's current situation.

Your assumption that the end of C50 was due entirely to Mike's actions is... interesting.

(http://binaryapi.ap.org/6f071c96fb7946bd91e889f899878767/preview.jpg?wm=api)

Wow! Beach Boys are really looking good here.

The Stamos dude is starting to show his age, isn't he?

AGD - I wish I had all the info, but as you've said before, hopefully the full story will emerge to the public in due course of time. While it's admittedly futile for me to speculate without all the facts, I still presume that Brian feeling (and remaining to some degree) hurt/resentful by Mike's actions regarding the implosion of C50 (even if other factors/people/BB spouses were ultimately factors as well) was, in all likelihood, a major  factor in why Brian was a no-show at Mike's big night.

And while it sucks and is unfortunate that he didn't go (and is indicative of the dysfunctional relationship these guys have always had and always will have), I can understand and empathize with Brian, and based on the limited, non-insider info that I have, I do not think he's a jerk for not showing. But I do think it's sad, and I do think Brian will (or already has) some regret or mixed feelings about it.
 
That being said, IMO I think that to some degree his no-show is ultimately also a power-play of some sort.  I mean, it's making some sort of a statement one way or another. I'm sure that thought and discussion went into the decision of whether BW would show or not.

This is awesome! Very happy that Al and Mike have mended things, yet again, and can do something together! Real shame Brian wasn't there. I can only imagine his wife, guessing here, said no? Really a bummer there.

"Brian...would you like to attend Mike's Ella award ceremony tonight?"

"Sure...why not?"

"Or maybe we should go to that Korean restaurant you like instead?"

"Sure! That sounds great!"

"Well, which is it then?"

"Yeah...okay. That's fine."

 8)

The only thing more tiring about the endless C50 finale speculations, is the insider dangling carrots out there..."One day...the whole story will be revealed." Like Cool Hand Luke showing deuce pair at the poker table. I hope one day we DO get some closure, just so we could move on. To the BEDROOM TAPES! WHAT ARE THEY? WHY AREN'T THEY RELEASED!? WHO HEARD 'EM? I HAVEN'T HEARD 'EM! LET'S HEAR 'EM!

(BRI showing pair of hearts...and now the river...)

Sure is a bummer.
Even if there is no "reunion," it would be nice to see them all mend fences and at least be seen together.

Bit Snippy isn't it?



Facts! Facts!....Just ONCE for the love of god!....No childish hints, any topic..... Facts!


Ok I'll try one.

Mid C50...Mike "Lets think about keeping this thing going?"

Brian "Sure, but I want my band and I'm loving that private tour bus!"

Mike "The numbers don't work out so I'm going to have to pass and say no!"

Brian "Waahhh...It feels like I've been fired!"


Am I close? Is it 'interesting" or just 'inept"?

All this speculation… we always need to bear in mind that we see perhaps 1% of the lives of these people we idolise - for all we know Brian and Mike have breakfast together when they're both in town; Bruce and Al maybe go riding together, maybe Dave and Mike take Al and Brian bowling once ona while. Maybe not. But the "feud" is as much speculation as the new album theory… entertaining, aye, but we're just willing to be entertained.

Very true. I am guessing it is Mrs. Love and Mrs. Wilson who just don't see things the same way.

Of course we speculate. Its what we unwashed do, and I don't mind one dot!

I just believe put downs on those of us who can ONLY speculate is pretty damn rude to be honest. If anyone is unwilling to expand on their reasoning due to some sort of confidentiality, don't even join in the thread to begin with.

 Deleted by Moon Dawg

  You had been doing better in 2014, but there you go again. How wonderful it must be to be privy to the halls of power and prestige.

   Regardless of the issues, it would have been a class move for Brian to attend.

That is BS, Andrew and others have stated many times that it wasn't just Mike that ended the C50 reunion and onward. And no, we all don't speculate into the personal business of the band members. Most of us have control and patience and can wait until the facts filter out. And you don't think it is rude to speculate and put your opinion before fact? As far as I'm concerned a lot of the hate for Mike comes from the speculations and opinions that over the years seem to become unsubstantiated facts. It is very hard to get to the truth when so much fiction is thrown around as fact.

Why this talk about the facts of the break-up of the C50 coming out some day? AGD mentions it also. Who is going to spill the beans?

My own take on things is this. I along with others can speculate about the C50 until the cows come home. It was the group that broke up and one that was doing pretty well on the surface. For the record, over 18 months my C50 break-up posts have sided more with AGD and his comments, that is it wasn't necessarily Mike.

Group members health, and family relationships ie wives, are for me off limits.

I suspect that no telling of the end of the C50 events will ever satisfy everyone. I am sure that Brian and Melinda and Joe (possibly more the latter two), feel they were justified in their actions and demands, and Mike and Jackie feel likewise. I'm sure that one side will say that Mike was being unreasonable and greedy, and the other will say Brian was used as a pawn. It has ever been thus in Beach Boys circles, regardless of the business specifics (which could likely be worked out one way or another if the personality conflicts didn't erupt). The views of fans will likewise divide, again depending on the side to which one is more partial.

Anyway, nice to see the guys hanging out, and nice to know that attempts are being made to bury hatchets. I had never heard of the award before this recent publicity, so I'm not one to judge someone sitting it out. As some have said, it's not as though Mike and the other guys rushed to be with Brian at the Kennedy Center awards or the Grammys with BWPS, or the MusiCares tribute, etc. And yes, yes, those were all about Brian and not the BBs. But this award was supposedly all about Mike. So ...

In an attempt to bring this thread back on topic.

The Brian/ Beck album is stalled it seems.

Questioning a possible Beach Boys album in its place has its doubters.

Anyone care to....eh....speculate..... WTF is going on? ;)

Any Brian Wilson composed and recorded music can easily become the vehicle for a Beach Boys album. So it can never be out of the realm of possibility.

Well, Brian's recent recordings were only partially with Beck. There was never any promise of a BW/Beck duet album. It was always going to be a BW solo album with guests. IIRC, there were several batches of material being worked on last year (stuff with Al, the Life Suite material). There was no specific album release date given, and no specific note made of exactly which songs in which proportions would be included.

I can see three or four possible scenarios.

1.) Beck doesn't want his contributions included. So they'll use a different batch of songs, or overdub new guitar parts.

2.) The project is taking a new direction, making Beck's stuff less important.

3.) Joe and Brian's people are fighting. If that's the case, everything stalls because Joe is co-writer and co-producer on everything. No Joe, no project.

4.) The record company is getting cold feet. Maybe it's not any good.

If this is the case its all happened in the last month then. Matt J was recording Jan 24.

Why AGD's comment about the stars realigning if its bad news. I got a more positive vibe?


(But that would be my positive, sunny disposition!  ;D)

Pressure from money men perhaps. The number of artists involved make it sound all over the place and another GIOMH.

Calling it a Beach Boys album would make it an easier sell IMO.

AGD doesn't believe Matt's posts, apparently.

We all know Brian would have been at the Ella awards if it was up to him, it's all down to the wives of Mike and Brian keeping them apart, I also believe it's them stopping Mike and Brian getting together anytime soon, meaning..no new BB's album.

Pretty simple.

I doubt Brian has ever heard of the Ella awards, or gives two figs about them. I also doubt Melinda went out of her way to tell her husband about them ...

Mike most likely sent an invite, which means it was turned down by Melinda.

She made the choice for Brian not to attend

A lot of us had never heard of the Ella Awards, but we found out what they were. Jeff Foskett attended, as did Al and David, and they're members of Brian's band. His daughters attended, and they no doubt told Dad that they were doing a gig with Cal Saga at an awards event for Mike Love. I would think that Jeff, Al, and David may have informed him, as well. I'm sure he knew it was happening. Whether he was directly invited or directly turned it down, no one knows for sure. And if that was his choice, or his wife's choice, or a combination thereof.

Here's an idea. Could the Ella comments be redirected to....lets see...the Ella thread?

Yes, but the point isn't if Brian had prior knowledge of the Ella Awards or if Melinda told him about them. How many other people who attended the award ceremony for Mike had prior knowledge about the Ella Awards? About 1%?

The point is, when he WAS notified about the award ceremony, and that he was invited by Mike, what did he CHOOSE to do? If Melinda received the invitation in the mail and kept it a secret from Brian, well....Do you believe she did that? If you do, remember it the next time the debate comes up regarding Melinda's influence over Brian.

Can't be done. The Ella posters have been vanquished by the DLR fans, and forced to come here to post

Have I ever said she didn't / doesn't have influence over her husband? It's also Brian's choice to accept that influence or not, and he's been accepting it for nearly 20 years now.

And the amount of self-righteous bullshit on this board right now about Brian's lack of attendance at a benefit for the man who has spent much of the last year taking passive-aggressive swipes at him in the press is amazing. Christ. Apparently empathy only goes one way these days.

Wirestone is amongst the best posters on this board.

Does anyone know what date the invite to Brian arrived in the mail? And was Brian home that day/morning? Or was Melinda home alone? If she was , she had every opportunity to tear it up without Brian ever seeing it.

It could be that one of their many dogs chewed it up? Was Brian out walking them when the invite arrived? In which case they could be innocent. Or maybe Brian and Melinda were away and the dogs were home alone and chewed up the mail and neither Brian or Melinda were ever aware of the invite…

Does anyone have a list of folk who attended the awards? Perhaps one of their adopted kids opened the mail that day, saw the invite and secreted it away for their own use? A quick look at the attendance list could solve … sh*t - what if Brian's postman was there?? That would have some bad implications…

So we need to know:
What day the invite arrived
Who was home that day
Where were the dogs?
Had the dogs been fed that morning?
Does the postman like pop music?

C'mon, someone here must know this stuff!

Mail, Postman....What are these things? ;D

One day, I may wake up and realise how silly this all is and post everything I know. And you will be amazed.












At how little I actually do know  ;D

If Andrew ever posts everything he knows, it will blot out the sun...  However, my bet is that the tease will be far less informative!

Agreed, he summed up my thoughts on the matter perfectly.

Wirestone, we don't know if Mike's swipes at Brian were a reason or not for his no-show. Apparently bitter public statements did not keep Al from being invited, attending and performing. We don't know how Brian and Mike get along these days, nor how better or worse his back problems got.

As for the C50 breakup, the reason -until a knowledgeable person corrects me- is this: Jaquie's shirts.

I agree completely!

I hate to say it, but this place is becoming nothing more than a gossip column. It seems that if information is too slow to come out, we make up stuff as to why things happen. The problem is, is that we start believing it.

Obviously the two of you need to wash before you come on here and post again

Melinda: Would you like to go to the Ella awards to see Mike?
Brian: Hell no!!! Heeeeeeeeeeell Nooooooooooo!!!!!



lol..

This.

I agree with those who say Brian's non-attendance is a non-issue.

However, if Brian goes within three miles of a recording studio, it's on his Facebook page. Seems to me that somebody could have taken ten seconds to write a two-sentence congratulatory statement for him.

I don't think it's too much to ask for a group of seventy year old men, who have spent most of their lives together, to put the slights of the past aside for one night, in a tribute to Mike Love.  

I don't think it's too much to ask for a group of 70-year-old men to live out their lives however they see fit, without feeling the need to accommodate the diverse wishes (and demands) of the public whose (admittedly encyclopedic) knowledge of their music and (occasionally disturbingly detailed) knowledge of their personal lives does not actually in any way grant them a vote in the matter. They're under no obligation to close off the public's version of their story with a feelgood coda.

One of the more perverse parts of me--will skip the most perverse parts, this is a family forum--hopes the guys say they find this uber-fandom really creepy and wish everyone would get a life and let music just be music. I'd take some pleasure in that.

Did Jeff, Al, and Dave Marks hurt Brian's feelings by showing up at Mike's event? Not to mention Brian's  daughters.

That aside, it was an evening for charity, the Society for Singers. Which was co-founded by the widow of someone Brian has said he admires, Henry Mancini. The charity helps out hard on their luck singers, ones not as lucky as Mike Love. As it is, the event was sort of honoring Brian himself, given the fact that Mike mostly sings Brian's compositions.

I do understand why Brian would not want to attend a public event, though. He doesn't do well at non-performance public events of any kind, including ones that honor himself.  There was a music blogger who had to sit across from Brian at a Grammy dinner and Brian would not talk to him all night, even though it was his job to keep Brian entertained. He would say something, and Brian wouldn't say a word. Brian had to get up and t give a brief speech and was able to do that, but left the event right afterwards, well before it was over. It's just not Brian's thing, and I think most people get that.

For all anyone on this board knows, Brian may have called Mike and congratulated him on the award, but bowed out of attending because sitting around for a few hours on those hard banquet hall chairs are murder on his bad back.  :-X

I'm amazed at how we fantasize that Brian cares about anyone else.

Are you even a BBs fan?

Grow up.

Look who is talking, to suggest Brian doesn't care about anybody else is childish and asinine. This is a guy who still misses Carl and Dennis dearly.

You have your opinion and I have mine. That you feel the urge to insult me is just sad, really.

Turn off your computer, go outside and grow up.

This would obviously have been different from a Grammy dinner as he would have known so many of the attendees, such as Jeff, Al, etc..  I saw that Mike wrote on his Facebook page that he was disappointed Brian didn't come. 

Yes, he did know a lot of people there, but it was a large room with many people he didn't know. As it is, wasn't it written that he left his own wedding reception early when he married Melinda? It was a small wedding and he knew everyone there, yet he didn't stay long, saying he was tired. You can call it a product of his illness, you can call it selfishness, but that's how he is. If he had gone and barely talked to people, then left early, people would have been negative about that, too.

I'm not even sure what that means. I'm not sure what my post had to do with you either.

It's the Everything and the Nothing

 :-\

Its in reference to this lee.

Just now out of the cool cool water as a matter of fact!  ;D

Now I got it.  :-D

You speak as if you know what goes through Brian's mind.

I thought his question was legitimate. You should answer it

Mike has been getting a lot of media attention of late.  Do you think he has launched a Mike Love publicity campaign through some celebrity management consultant/s?  Maybe to finally balance out the Brian legend with a little attention and recognition coming his way,   And to draw emphasis to the Mike Love Beach Boys band?

Why would he need to do that? . I don't see much Mike publicity outside of the Ella Award thing.

He's trying to generate it all starting here

I could, but I won't. It's not forbidden to ask me this question, but I also have the right to ignore it.

It's just so silly. I'm really embarassed for this Smile Brian dude.

Quit backing away through lame insults and answer the question:

Do you like the BBs/BW at all?


I would guess no since you always rant about how horrible the members are.

I'm confused as to why you're so obsessed with SMiLE Brian. He didn't attack you, why do you keep going after him?

Smile Brian is named after one of his least favorite members of the band. Just seeing the name Brian brings to mind awful things like Pet Sounds, which is one Dancing Bear's least favorite albums.

That is my guess.

What is sad is this thread persisted on the top for this long...

Whoops just bumped it again, dam.  :p

the most favoritest thread of the moment for so many!

Four pages of speculation about Brian's nonattendance at the Ella Awards in a thread titled Is A New Beach Boys Album On The Way? with a bonus spat between Smile Brian and Dancing Bear...add a petition to the mix and we've got another average day on Smiley Smile ;D

As far as I'm concerned, and as long as I don't hammer my opinion down everyone's throat every day, week or month, I can, oh yeah I'm sure I can state an opinion about any Beach Boy. And I will.

Now if you guys think I don't deserve to be called a fan, it's ok with me. I'll survive.  :-D

(http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/xq90/203/ajz4.jpg) (https://imageshack.com/i/5najz4j)

What an awful movie.

I guess Smile Brian has got a genious follow-up to the answer that he's demanding from me. Right in his pocket.

Just like Smile... Shelved.  :)

Stating opinions is fine. Stating something you can't possibly have the first idea about as fact isn't.

Been seeing a lot of interviews, media pieces, and the appearances on the car shows etc.  Just seems there is a lot of Mike out there recently.  No judgment from me, just observation and speculation.

ok, I can live with that.

Just a note: not having the first idea about the Beach Boys as real people never stopped 99,5% of us of writing trash about them.

Yeah I think Mike is trying to drum up interest for a solo music release.

Money...

Maybe Brian realised that showing up with everybody else might raise expectations for another BB reunion project, something that he's not ready to address yet with an upcoming solo album. It's nice to see Al there, relations with Mike can't be as strained as some of us thought.

To draw a line under this thread, Matt said his dad and 'others' were hoping to record in February for Brians album. Low and behold 4/5 of the C50 appear together.

End of the day, no harm done. No lives were lost.

Moving on! 

I think their relationship is better in person than when being interviewed about current Beach Boys' affairs. Not that it's good, but as you say, not that bad either.

With regards to the end of the C50 tour, as far as I remember it went something like this:

Everyone agreed to a tour of roughly 50 dates. Nobody knew how it would go, especially Brian who was unwell (back problems) early in the tour.

Mike seems to have persuaded Brian to add some 20-odd more dates, including the final two in the UK. Brian agreed to those "and no more" at a time when he wasn't feeling too good physically and likely everyone was wary of the whole situation even lasting to the end of those dates.

Amazingly, by the time of the final gigs everyone was still getting on with each other and still performing well. Really this went against all predictions. By now, Brian wanted the tour to continue. Indeed its possible that in some way everyone wanted to continue that line-up of The Beach Boys in some form or other...either continuing the C50 tour after a short break, continuing together full time or resting that line-up before bringing it back in, say, 2014.

But...some months earlier Brian had said "and no more". The Mike & Bruce show had already committed to dates, on the prior assumption that the agreement to end the "reunion" after the C50 tour would be honoured by all parties. This pee'd off Brian who said it felt like being fired etc. I really can't blame Mike, Bruce and their people for wanting to continue working after the C50 tour was completed.

Strikes me as a monumental misunderstanding, and I can genuinely see both sides.

AGD correct me please if I am wrong (it's been known).

As for why Brian didn't turn up at Mike's award, I have no idea.

Thank you for the lucid exposé, A-Boy -

of course I don't know anything factual about those goings-on, I only know what I read about it, in various and different accounts.

But this is by far the most coherent and credible story; with an inner logic, and respect for all involved.

Lesson: they, and we, are all human.

(Somehow I hope that your version will be supported and corroborated, so that I can forget the other ones with the acrimony and accusations, and bitterness (dissatisfaction? dissapointment?))

In some form or other....Yeah, that was/is the question. But, what is the answer, if there is one? The wild card again, as always, is Brian Wilson. It has been speculated that Brian wanted to continue as a Beach Boy. But, under what or who's conditions? His, Mike's, the group's?

Brian wanted to continue touring with The Beach Boys? For how many shows? Just speculating... Brian wants to perform 20-25 shows per year. Mike wants to perform 75-80 shows per year. Maybe Al and David would be up for 50 good ones. There's a big difference between 20 and 80. And, if Brian doesn't appear at all of the shows, there's going to be some problems. What's the answer? A compromise?

Brian wants to record another Beach Boys' album. He wants to choose his collaborator. Mike wants to choose Brian's collaborator - himself. Al, Bruce, and David would like to contribute more. The record company or whoever is funding the project wants their say. A compromise?

Brian wants to be a Beach Boy again. Does that mean he's all in? TV appearances? Interviews? Promotions? Charity events? Will his situation be like 1985-present where he has a solo career AND a Beach Boys' role? A compromise?

Like some (a few?), I don't necessarily think that Brian wanted to continue as a Beach Boy - with the lengthy touring, recording/collaborating/associating with Mike, and either putting his solo career on hold or juggling both. In the Beach Boys' history, it always has and it always will come down to Brian's role. This is a very complicated situation. Clearly Brian and Mike are not on the same page. The C50 was a unique situation. There needs to be a lot of compromising for a future Beach Boys that includes Brian Wilson. A lot. 

I'll offer my two cents here as well, and I will say up front that those who are "tired" of C50 talk, who burst into threads to chastise those for still discussing it (creating the weird paradox where their complaint becomes even less relevant than the stuff they're complaining about being posted), please just move on.


The first dates being agreed upon seems to be clear indeed; nobody has disputed that. I don’t think anything was strongly indicating to those involved that there was any serious possibility of those initial dates falling apart or anybody dropping out. For all the talk of how the tour could implode at any moment, I never gave any serious consideration to the possibility of the tour being cancelled or Brian or anybody dropping out mid-tour, simply due to the huge financial and contractual stakes involved. Brian’s back may have been a concern, but not particular more so than any general concerns about the guys, at least Brian-Mike-Al, getting along and getting through the tour. Apart from literally physically not being able to get on stage, Brian would have had to stick it out. Similarly, any other interpersonal issues, if they had arisen during the tour, would have had to be dealt with and they all would have pushed through.


Regarding adding the dates, I don’t see any evidence that it was Mike who specifically had to “convince” Brian to do the 20 or so extra dates. It sounds like the offer was made to the group, and they accepted. If anything, Mike’s own statements seem to suggest Mike was the one who was a bit hesitant about it, perhaps because he had already booked some Mike/Bruce shows and knew this would lead to “C50” shows butting right up against Mike/Bruce shows. Mike’s statements on the subject tend to read like he feels he was the one who went way above and beyond by agreeing to do more dates (conveniently avoiding addressing that this proved his “set end date” could be changed if he wanted to allow it). Regarding Brian saying “no more dates”, we have one comment in one Mike interview referring to Brian saying “no more dates”, and even in that story, Mike didn’t say precisely *when* Brian allegedly said this, nor under what circumstances. I continue to contend that, had Brian been the sole driving force behind there being “no more dates”, that big media blow-up near the end of the tour would have easily been avoided by Mike immediately saying it was Brian. Mike didn’t do this, and I suspect it was because this story simply isn’t what happened, and more to the point, Mike certainly wasn’t of the opinion of “I really wanted to do more reunion shows, but Brian stopped us.”


This is where my take would diverge even more. Firstly, those are a lot of different scenarios you’re describing as all of them wanting to continue “in some form.” I think Mike’s own comments on the situation, coupled with what I’ve heard from even the most pro-Mike folks professing to be “in the know”, indicate that Mike did not want to continue the reunion. I think he was trying to be as diplomatic and polite as Mike Love is capable of being near the end of the tour when he invoked his “give it a rest for a few years” ill logic rather than just saying what he ended up saying any number of months later. It seems pretty clear Mike was unhappy with a number of things about the reunion, and kind of bit his lip as much as he could while he was contractually tied to the reunion. He clearly was lukewarm about how the album was recorded, he clearly didn’t like the humongous, expensive touring band and touring operation, he seems to have soured on Joe Thomas (who was still involved in every aspect of the group by that point, writing, producing, financing in the studio and on tour), and that’s not even getting into the constant references being made by “insiders” regarding the Love and Wilson wives being linchpins in the whole thing who may have ended up not seeing eye to eye either. I don’t think Mike left the reunion thinking there was zero chance of doing something together, but whether he was justified or not, it seems pretty clear he was done with the reunion after Wembley.


And this is where I would also diverge. We don’t know when or if Brian said “no more”, and this also (incorrectly in my opinion) implies that the only thing keeping Mike from doing more reunion activities was previously-booked Mike/Bruce shows. None of this washes to me, again regardless of whether Mike was justified in ending the reunion. I think Mike had soured on elements of the reunion involving money and power, and his level of comfort with the entire operation. If he had not booked a single Mike/Bruce show for the duration of 2012, I don’t think he would have extended the reunion. He was done. We also have to get back into the more broad question of whether Mike *had* to book more Mike/Bruce shows. Simply put, I don’t think he had to, and later using those booking as an excuse for not being able to do more reunion shows was totally bogus (and was an excuse Mike may have used initially, but he eventually conceded he didn’t like how the reunion business and interpersonal model was going; leaving only some fans to continue to use those bookings as a justification). Further, there is strong albeit circumstantial/anecdotal evidence that Mike could have cancelled/postponed/rescheduled/reconfigured any Mike/Bruce bookings if indeed those were the only thing standing in the way.

This may be true -- but what does a 2012 tour (which would have long been over by now, anyway, even if it had been extended beyond the 70 dates) have to do with this current album?

1) Brian says he's done with solo projects, says he wants every lp from now on to be the Beach Boys
2) Mike says he'll only work with Brian if he and Brian co-write the songs from scratch (presumably without a 3rd party)
3) Brian starts work on a Beach Boys lp in-all-but-name, with Al, David, and Blondie, but without Mike (and Bruce)

Is there any other info out there?

I don’t think we know if any of the things in your list are even possibly true, apart from perhaps #2 to some degree. It seems Mike’s participation in another BB album is probably contingent on more collaboration, though we don’t know if that literally means the exclusion of anybody outside of Love/Wilson writing stuff. I would tend to think Mike is not suggesting nobody else can have a songwriting credit on a theoretical future BB album.  

#1 is true. Brian did say it in an inteview. #3 is true. Brian is recording with Al, David, and Blondie.

Brian has recently stated he's not going to do anymore solo projects? Is there a link to an interview where he stated this?

As for #3, "A Beach Boys album in all but name" is simply your characterization. You have no idea how prevalent Al or Dave would be on the album. Blondie being involved is awesome, but as he wasn't on the last Beach Boys album, I'm not sure his involvement means much as it pertains to a beach boys album.

There are threads about BW working with Jeff Beck, blondie, and others on an unnamed solo project recently. Though it could morph into a BBs project.

I'm not clack, but I will say that I'm pretty sure I remember that Brian said he just wanted to do Beach Boys stuff from now on (or something like that) at the Rock 'n Roll Hall of Fame, when they had that get together thing right before they went to the UK (I think).


I agree with you that none of us are sure how much Al, Blondie and Dave will be on the album. Therefore, we won't know if it truly will be a "Beach Boys album in all but name" or not. And let's be honest, since Dave likely isn't gonna sing much (if at all) it's really gonna come down to how much of Al and Blondie is on the album. If they are both on like three or more songs a piece, I think it'll become obvious that it's a little less "Brian solo" and a little more "Brian with his buds from The Beach Boys".

On the other hand, I don't think it's a coincidence that even though Brian lost two Beach Boys for this project (Mike and Bruce) he brings in one (Blondie). I mean, it is pretty awesome that there is likely gonna be FOUR Beach Boys on the new Brian album. The only other Brian album that had any other members was GIOMH, and let's just say that it wasn't quite up to Carl whether he was on that album or not by that point.

Mike and Brian can't agree on a touring Beach Boys that much has been clear for decades. 
How about they go back to the OLD way where Brian creates and BB Album he likes and Mike, Bruce, Al, David and perhaps Blondie come in and record on it and Mike and Bruce go out on the road perhaps taking the other three with them at times? 
That would please everyone with any sense.

In perfect world, thats how it should work. But Mike and Brian's main problem has always been dividing the studio and touring world of the BBs.

I haven't really thought much about further Beach Boys reunions. We got studio & live reunion albums. The group (and Capitol) finally capitulated and released "Made in California" after putting the fans through an ordeal that lasted approximately 2 years. And the download-only "copyright extension" collection ("The Big Beat:1963") was an unexpected bonus. If we get any more music, whether it is archival Beach Boys material or another Brian Wilson solo album, it will be another bonus. But I'm certainly not clamoring for anything. Those days are over. I'm expecting that Capitol will want (or assemble) some sort of Brian Wilson or Beach Boys CD "product" for marketing this summer. If anything gets released, I'll be there, I'll buy it. If not, I won't be brokenhearted.

As far as "Mike and Brian can't agree on the touring Beach Boys that much has been clear for decades"... With the exception of the C50 tour, over the last 50 years (since 1964), I don't think Brian Wilson cared very much - if at all - about the touring Beach Boys, other than making sure his check from each show was deposited into his checking account.

And, the "Mike and Brian's problem has always been dividing the studio and touring world of the BBs." thing... I addressed the touring above. As far as the studio, for the LARGE PART of the last 45 years, Brian Wilson has basically contributed WHATEVER HE WANTED to the Beach Boys' albums. It could be one or two songs like on Surf's Up, CATP, and Holland. It could be a couple of co-writes like Sunflower, KTSA, and BB1985. Or, it could be no songs like on L.A. Light Album (those songs were in the can) and Summer In Paradise. They "gave him" an entire album in Love You. During those years, the group was happy to receive whatever Brian was willing or able to contribute. While I'm sure the group, including Mike, would've appreciated more input from Brian, I wouldn't characterize it as a "Mike and Brian's problem dividing the studio world".

I do, however, think it is an issue NOW. Mike Love is no longer happy just to have Brian Wilson in The Beach Boys UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES like he used to for several decades. I think that has changed. I believe there are three basic reasons for this: 1) the success of "Kokomo" (coinciding with the commercial failures of Brian's solo career), 2) Mike has successfully carried/driven The Beach Boys name for several years through touring, TV appearances, and benefits with no Wilsons which of course includes no Brian, and 3) Brian has said some hurtful things about Mike and the Beach Boys, and for several years of his solo career (which is now almost 30 years long) has mostly disassociated himself from the group.

There used to be a time when Mike would say things like "Brian is welcome at any time to sit in with The Beach Boys. We'll always have a chair available for him..." And, I think Mike was sincere in that sentiment. Brian could come and go, play a date here and there, or contribute a song here and there. I wonder if when the reunion was proposed and discussed, there wasn't some feeling on Mike's part regarding Brian like "Oh, NOW you want to be a Beach Boy again..." It's apparent that Mike has some regrets about the way the reunion was handled. I think now, going forward, Mike still welcomes Brian on stage and would still like to work with him in the studio, but under his (Mike's) terms. Things have changed.

I may be wrong but wasn't Love You initially intended to be a BW solo album? If that's the case, The Beach Boys didn't "give" Brian a whole album. They basically wanted to use his album for themselves. I thought I recalled reading that but again, I could be wrong.

I do agree with you that Mike is all for Brian being a part of The Beach Boys but under his terms. That's totally understandable now since circumstances are so different. Decades ago, the band still had record contracts, needed to put out records and would be willing to take/consider any material that Brian had. Nowadays, The Beach Boys are about Mike and Bruce touring and playing the hits to crowds that want it.  There isn't a NEED to put out new material. 95% of the people attending those shows probably wouldn't want to hear new material anyway. I think that if The Beach Boys were to put out a new album, it would almost definitely require another tour with the remaining 5 members. Mike clearly didn't like the way the 50th tour went and wouldn't think about putting himself in that situation again unless he was touring and promoting an album that he contributed to and was happy with. Otherwise, he continues to tour with Bruce and do what he's been happy doing for years. No real loss for him.

I thought Love You was a Beach Boys album and Brian had a solo project separate from that in the form of the so-called big band album, which was never released.

I understand it as this:

Brian worked on a solo album, but lost interest for whatever reason and it remained unfinished. The Beach Boys took over, adding vocals and such, and Carl finished up production, earning him the title of "mixdown producer" on the back.

I could be (and probably am) wrong.

Interesting post Sheriff. However, there are a few things that require correction.


First of all, Brian surely did contribute material to the L.A. (Light Album) sessions. If I'm remembering c-man's account of the Miami sessions correctly, Brian did review (and possibly worked on) "Good Timin'", likely with a view to including it on the first CBS album. It also seems that "Shortenin' Bread", which I'm pretty sure was recorded in January of '78 was also submitted by Brian for L.A. during those days. And don't forget it was he who produced and sang and The Beach Boys version of "California Feelin'" which ultimately didn't make it. And it seems like the "Calendar Girl" cover was originally his idea. So he actually was quite a lot more involved then it seems at first. And I know that this ultimately has jack to do with the topic at hand, but I like making sure certain myths around here aren't perpetrated.


I also don't think it would be fair to say they "gave him" Love You. Well maybe Dennis and Carl, because they probably wouldn't have minded if they had some new songs of their own on there. But Mike and Al, I'm guessing that they were just fine that there was gonna be a new album of originals all written by Brian. I just don't think they expected it to be as wacky as it was.



And now for the true issue at hand. You really think "Kokomo" still makes Mike feel validated that he doesn't need Brian at least in the studio? I think maybe from the Still Cruisin' through Summer In Paradise that was true, but I think after the SIP debacle where they couldn't find a major label to release it (this only like four years after "Kokomo") and the fact that they sold like 1000 copies leads me to believe Mike knows that commercially "Kokomo" (while a good song in my opinion) was a fluke. Note that he was willing to go back to the Brian-in-charge thing for "Soul Searchin'" and "You're Still A Mystery", and even having Brian as "producer" for Stars & Stripes. He knows, as big as his own ego is, that Brian Wilson is the "name" that fuels The Beach Boys and that without him it's looked at as kinda halfassed.

So I don't think it's that he felt like overcome by any of this, I think it's just come down to the fact that for the first time since like maybe the early '70s Brian (or his people) were willing to throw some weight around concerning Beach Boys matters. I think it slightly came as a shock to Mike that it truly was Brian producing the album. Judging by the "Waves of Love" incident with Al, it seemed pretty obvious that Brian was in charge, and that he was going to work on the songs the he wanted to. And it just so happened that he liked "Daybreak Over The Ocean", so that one made it, while "Waves of Love" didn't. I think the Brian that Mike had dealt with for the past 40 or so years was more pliable. Or at least that he wasn't as concerned. To put it in baseball terms, from around '62 to '67 or so Brian was the manager, then he realized that he only wanted to be a player. So from then until '97 or '98, whenever it became clear that Brian wasn't gonna work with Mike anymore, Brian was cool just to contribute what he felt like. And Mike became used to it. I don't think he expected Brian-the-leader in 2012, he probably expected the team player, the pliable Brian. And when he didn't get that, it shocked him. Because in Mike's mind, "how dare Brian think he take this team back over, I've been running it since whenever and things are working...who does he think he is???"


Yeah, you are wrong. Sorry  ;D

The album was basically always considered a Beach Boys album. However apparently Brian was pretty slapdash with the mixes and whatnot so Carl did have to clean it up.

I think Brian and Mike lack the creative abilities to write new songs and produce them for an album.  Maybe Brian has something left, but I'm a bit skeptical.  Mike would find SIP and TM type songs to be fine, Brian likes Shelter type mush.

I don't know if that's exactly true. Apparently "From There To Back Again" was actually written recently. And in both Brian and Mike's defense I think "Isn't It Time" is pretty commercial (and also just pretty great) and they co-wrote that one.

And as Mike is always saying, they tend to bring out the best in each other. So a song they sit down and write together from scratch may turn out to be better than the sum of the parts (music and lyrics the two of them write separately).

And, c-man, I guess that's the bottom line.  ;)

From Brian's facebook page:

"Brian's Summer Plans:

Brian has uniquely been invited back to play at Cork for their 10th anniversary year, after he opened up this amazing series of concerts back in June 2005.

The series has, year after year, featured such iconic artists as Bob Dylan, Elton John, Paul Simon, Tom Petty, Sting, Dolly Parton, amongst others.

Together with headlining Hop Farm, that has previously featured Bob Dylan and Van Morrison, amongst others, these two shows will provide a unique opportunity for European fans to see Brian this summer. Brian will be back in the Fall to debut material from his new album and celebrate the release of his upcoming feature film."

1. Yes, Brian contributed some things to the L.A. Light Album SESSIONS, but he didn't contribute any songs the the L.A. Light Album ALBUM, which is what I said in my above post. "Here Comes The Night" was obviously from Wild Honey. Brian's contribution to "Good Timin" was done in 1974(?); the work done during the L.A. Light Album sessions was done by Bruce and Carl. And, the "Shortenin' Bread" version that appeared on L.A. Album was, what, the third or fourth attempt/version of the song which originated from 1976? And, that was also finished by Bruce and maybe Carl? Brian didn't contribute any songs, any new songs, to L.A. Light Album. Any songs on that album bearing his name were cherry-picked from earlier work/versions. A little off topic, but I don't even consider Brian Wilson to be on L.A. Light Album, other than some oohs and ahhs. Does he sing even a single line? A single word? It's one of those deals where you have to listen hard, and say, "Yes, I hear him. Right there. Hear that 'oooh', that sounds like Brian. Hear that note, that 'ahhh', that's Brian. Yep, that was Brian. I heard him". L.A. Light Album was a major disappointment for me based on Brian's almost complete absence, not that I blame him too much because he was institutionalized briefly around that time.

2. While it might not be the best term (are we arguing semantics?), but, yes, I do think Love You was given to Brian. And I don't say that with a negative slant. Love You is my favorite BB album after Pet Sounds and SMiLE. I wish The Beach Boys would've "given" more albums to Brian Wilson post-Love You. I'm not so sure he wanted them. I've been waiting 37 years for another Brian Wilson-composed album like Love You where he sat down and wrote an album's worth of CURRENT material, not an album full of older tracks, covers, live tracks, or collaborator-driven songs. 15 Big Ones was a lot of things, things not worth discussing in this thread. But it (15 Big Ones) also served a warm-up album for Brian, a project with one of its goals being to get Brian re-acclimated to working with the guys in the studio. The goal was to get Brian producing the Beach Boys at a high level again, and Love You was an outcome of that goal - good or bad - it's a matter of opinion. The band was on the road, Dennis' focus was on POB, Brian was in one of his creative writing cycles, and the band WANTED Brian to write/produce an album (Love You). I don't recall the other guys around that time (summer/fall 1976) pushing their songs for a Beach Boys' album. Do you remember what the guys wrote on the inside jacket of Love You, "We thank you for sharing yourself and your music with us...we support totally the completion of these songs...we acknowledge your willingness to create...". Love You was Brian's show and I think it was supposed to be that way. It was Brian's album, more a solo album than any of his subsequent solo albums, and the group "gave him" free reign to compose it. I think so anyway...

3. Yes, I think Mike still feels validated by the success of "Kokomo", and he always will. I think "Kokomo" changed everything in the way Endless Summer changed things in 1974. No, I don't think Mike thinks he needs Brian in the studio to get a hit record. Nevermind "Kokomo", but remember the success of "Come Go With Me", "Getcha Back", "Wipe Out", and to a lesser extent, some of the fine productions by Terry Melcher like "California Dreamin" and "Somewhere Near Japan". Brian didn't have a lot to do with those songs (with the exception of his vocal on "Getcha Back"). Do I think Mike would LIKE to work/collaborate with Brian again? Of course. Absolutely. Probably more than anything in the world. But, like I said above, under Mike's terms. Hey, I admitted several times that I was wrong. I never thought I would see the day that Mike wouldn't accept ANY contributions from Brian Wilson under ANY circumstances. But, now I think that has changed. It changed over time. Mike has finally drawn the line. And, I'll leave it up to you and everybody else to decide if he is justified or not. Somehow I think I know how everybody feels about that! ;D

"Back" where? ? ? ? ? ? ?

"... these two shows will provide a unique opportunity for European fans to see Brian this summer. Brian will be back in the Fall to debut material from his new album and celebrate the release of his upcoming feature film."

Now, I'm not much cop with this writing lark, but I'd read that as "back" to "Europe".

But... what do I know of these "Beach Boys" ?

Cork. He played there in 2005 I think.


edit....

Fall. Hardly July. Duh. My bad!

Thank you brian for coming back to ireland, CAN'T WAIT

Aye, could well be but I was assuming it might simply mean back in the public gaze. That is the trouble with ambiguity, it either is or might not be ambiguous.  ;D

As much as I'm looking forward to seeing this Brian movie, I can see a elephant in the room at every press conference, interview and story. The fall-out after the C50.

Mike will more than likely come out the villain.

In a perfect world amongst Beck, Blondie, Al and Dave there would be one song on Brian's album that is a new Beach Boys tune.

Interview question. "So Brian, how's things with you and Mike Love?

Brian. "Its ok. In fact we got together in a room and wrote a new Beach Boys song just like the old days for my new album.'

As someone who is still plenty fascinated (and bummed) by the dissolution of the reunion, I would still say that two years later while promoting a movie and new solo album, I doubt Brian would be hounded a great deal by the media about the C50 debacle. He may well get some generic questions about the group or other members or Mike Love, but I don’t think the media cared about C50 or its demise once the “Mike fires Brian” headlines stopped “trending” after a few weeks in October of 2012.

As for a “new” BB song on a Brian album, I can’t imagine there’s any scenario where a Beach Boys track, credited to “The Beach Boys”, would appear on a Brian solo album. If the guys actually can somehow manage to all get together on a new track, and are willing to bill it as “The Beach Boys”, then it seems highly unlikely they’d tuck it into a Brian solo album. They’d either build a new album around it or make it a bonus track on yet another hits compilation.

I do recall Brian saying things along those lines *before* the reunion tour dissolved. Clearly, at least for some time in 2012 before Mike bowed out of taking more reunion show/album offers, Brian was all hot on doing more Beach Boys material, and was initially disappointed that Mike didn’t want to keep the reunion lineup together.

It also seems as though Brian got over the disappointment a lot more quickly than some fans (and Al), so any instances prior to the end of the reunion of Brian saying he wanted future projects to be BB projects is not particularly applicable to what’s going on now. Brian hasn’t even professed in some time the sentiments we got from Al in 2013 that, even if it wasn’t possible, he wanted the full lineup to continue on.

"I do recall Brian saying things along those lines *before* the reunion tour dissolved. Clearly, at least for some time in 2012 before Mike bowed out of taking more reunion show/album offers, Brian was all hot on doing more Beach Boys material, and was initially disappointed that Mike didn’t want to keep the reunion lineup together."

Which is ironic, because the BW I saw at the Hollywood Bowl looked miserable and had no stage presence.  I doubt very much BW wants to play concerts.

Brian Wilson

Ah but… the Brian Wilson  we saw at the RAH and at Wembley was having a blast.

And just so I can visualise AGD spilling his tea I'll add this!


I know, I know. An announcement of a new album being made by David Marks is out there on the 'yeah, right' meter. ;D

That's David Beard…

Gotcha. Thanks!

As you were.