The Smiley Smile Message Board

As the topic on which his comments appeared has been blocked (why??), I'll start a thread...

Very disappointing to discover someone who I've previously held in such high esteem is in fact a bit of a bigot.

What a dumb comment re Muslims/gays. I've had periods of unemployment myself and from what I recall there were just as many ethnic minorities queuing alongside me in the job centre as there were white people.

The vast majority of people who claim benefits are also in work - FACT - and only a tiny, tiny minority of people who claim benefits do so dishonestly - also FACT.

Disliking a majority because of the actions of a minority is shallow and ridiculous. You see those food banks that are cropping up all over the place? People aren't going to them because they're greedy, they're going because they're starving!

It was the bankers and their ilk who are responsible for the current state of the UK (and the world) so why the anger towards the poor and minorities? Still, i suppose it's easier to sneer at a poor working-class mother than it is at a rich white guy in a suit, eh Andrew?

So either stop believing nasty Tory propaganda or stick to the Mail Online if you want to spout any more ignorant guff. Thanks.

People really take things too serious anymore.

Soapbox......er,.... I mean Sandbox please.

I regard myself as a bit of a prudish PC liberal but found nothing offensive in Andrew's comments, nor did he state anywhere that he dislikes anyone at all, of any faith, persuasion, race or state of maternity.

If anything I think AGD's being jumped on and riled. But hey-ho… I suspect this thread will crash and burn any minute!

I Second.
In fact, this thread  is a direct and heinous violation of Board rule # 2 and following along that with rule # 1. And is certainly deserving of first offense punishment, at the least.          http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,122.0.html

Let it go, Disney. The original comments were just that...a flippant remark, not commentary upon race relations. Please restrain yourself from the politics of 'gotcha'. Everyone's got a cellphone, everyone's got a twitter, everyone's Edward Murrow. All about the context, amateurs.

Andrew didn't say he was better better or greater, or comparing himself with Muslims as a person or God as a thing or whatever it is. He just said what he said and it was wrong. Or it was taken wrong. And now it's all this.

What odds are you offering. Even money?  ;D

Well, it is offensive but guess what?  People eventually show their true colors. It offends me, being part Native American, that the individual is using a Native American for his profile picture. Racist? Can't say but there is something disturbing going on there.

As to the gambling, my Uncle recently lost his family fortune to it at the track, leaving them stunned and penniless.Thus, it bothers me greatly that the M/B show play so many casinos.

It's not looking like even  Jerry Garcia would get out of his own puke to crash and burn this thread....( he wasn't a native american gambler I hope)

IBTTID

in before this thread is deleted too  ;D

I need to see what the other comments are, but the avatar is a related to this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Will_Fight_No_More_Forever

as he had previously stated when in an argument with another poster. No racial offense intended.

I would like to offer my apologies to all Plymouth Rocks for my avatar! ;D

Ya know, I read Andrew's comments this morning, and I have to admit that it gave me pause. Definitely kinda made me wonder though, as I never really pegged him as a bigot. Or anti-gay. I kinda thought that was more a middle American WASPy type thing to do, so I was a bit surprised.

Then again, apparently Bruce is a full-fledged tea bagger, and he's AGD's fave Beach Boy. So who knows?

I've known him for about a decade...no prejudice. As for the comment earlier (which I just read), I took it more of a slam against how with a lot of services, if you are considered a 'protected class' you will be in many cases given preferential treatment (and non-preferential treatment in other cases). I myself have been on both sides.


Hey...that's a rooster...otherwise known as a 'c*ck'. I have a penis...I'm offended! :lol j/k

Fine, whatever. I thought his comments were unpleasant and I don't come on here to here stuff about "Muslims receiving preferential treatment" etc, and it pissed me off, coz it's crap.

If you think his comments were perfectly acceptable, good for you. I didn't - I thought they were pretty nasty and if he's allowed to say stuff like that, then I should be allowed to call him up on it. Why shouldn't I be able too?

Would everyone be just as ok had he said 'black' rather than 'Muslim'? If not, why not?

I took it as him railing against what he was told at the benefits office, which was indeed wrong...IMHO benefits should be awarded based on situation regardless of color, race, orientation, creed, ect.  Maybe I misunderstood, but that's how it came across to me. And considering I just spent an hour on the phone trying to get an answer on why my food stamps were cut in half despite my hours at work also being cut in half, well...

And for the record, I am indeed a multi-ethnic 'minority'.

This is why right-wingers like to mock us lefties; because we piss and moan about anything that can cause offence even at it's most lightweight and flippant. Lordy Lou first ORR's laughable attempt at an anti-Mike thread and now this, Disney Boy I like you and agree with a lot of what you say but sometimes things just need to be left be. Forget it, I've had 3 glasses of wine tonight I might as well go for a 4th (now I remember why I rarely read the Sandbox).

I feel ya. Hell, I'm rarely here on the Sandbox for the same reason.

bigot - a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially :  one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance

Hmm well under these circumstances I wouldnt peg AGD as a bigot. If what he experienced is true he is just venting some steam. Cant blame the guy myself.

This:

1 - I said something out of line, uncalled for, in the heat of the moment. I was very wrong, it was beneath me, and I apologised. I'll do it again. I'm sorry. However, the Muslim comment is valid. And no, I don't read the Daily Wail.

2 - FWIW, I was being riled by some so-called fan who, when not looking for the latest Mike Love interview to find something, anything, to be outraged at, seems to think I should have refused the first reasonable job offer I'd had in 18 months on purely moral grounds. So his uncle blew his stash at the racetrack - didn't someone in the family try to do something instead of leaving it to the bookies ?

3 - My avatar - was (as others here have noted) explained in a previous thread, which included the eloquent and moving speech Chief Joseph made, something I would have thought someone claiming to be of Native American descent wouldn't need explaining in the first place: it's only one of the most famous, and quoted, speeches in American history and rightly so. If you're offended by my using a pic of him as an avatar to remind me to at least try to be as equable in the face of adversity (be it only someone continually taking pots at me for no other reason than it is me, as opposed to having most of my tribe rubbed out by the US Cavalry), then you really need to see someone about that, because you have real and serious problems, and if you keep looking for something, anything, to be upset about, the rest of your life is going to be deeply unhappy. But maybe that's what you want. Fine - just don't include me, or try to pin it on me.

4 - I remember when this - the Beach Boys thing - used to be fun, and enjoyable. That was before the trolls and asshats learned how to use a computer. There are a lot of good, good people here whose company I enjoy. Unfortunately, there's a small cadre of trolls and malcontents intent spoiling it for the rest of us. We really need the "ignore" button back.  :)

... and breathe.

Is my avatar racist too? The Beach Boys, Brother logo, as well? Are you telling me that if I hold Sitting Bull, Geronimo or Chief Joseph in high regard, and use their picture, that I cannot because I am a caucasian? Get the f*** out of here? Really, seriously?

This kind of crap that goes on here is why you haven't seen me in here of late. I'm with you, some of the people taking over this place have taken the fun out posting about our favorite band. I just pray that one day they will fade away into the shadows.

Your avatar is the BRs logo, it is BB related. If you aren't Native American,  don't tell me what offends me. Like whites using the N Word, don't go there. The use of this photo by this individual is offensive to me. End of story.  I suppose if he uses an old blackface photo at some point it will be ok with the Mods cause there is a double standard on the Board. OSD gets banned for being mocking. Racist comments, no problem.

To the mods:

Can we have a ruling here on whether or not I'm being racist in using an avatar of a Native American, however respectfully, despite my being a Caucasian of Roma ancestry ?

If you say I am, then I'll remove it (and I take it this will mean anyone else using an avatar that is not directly related to their ethnicity - like, say, a cat - will also be required to change it).

If not, doesn't being unfairly accused of being racist call for a ban of the accuser ?

Thank you for your judgement in advance.  :angel:

Seriously, first I was accused of rampant homophobia when I observed that, as regards Oasis, I preferred my Beatles straight (as in undiluted) and now, because I use a Native American avatar, I'm a racist, according to someone who no-one here knew was claiming NA descent until a few hours ago. I believe the only possible rejoinder is:

What. The. Actual. f*** ?

[PS: the request for a ruling is genuine]

Seeing you have been banned twice before, according to you, yet viciously bullied and attacked members hundreds of times without being permanently banned, and two of the three Mods seem to be your personal friends, by their own admission, they, as usual, will not do a thing I suspect.

I would be happy to have the elders of our local tribal council write the Mods a letter protesting your inappropriate use of this photo. You may not realize but these things continue to be an issue in the U.S. As the owner of the Washington Redskins would tell you. Native Americans are continuing to work hard on this issue. You don't speak for Natuve Americans nor is your inproper use of this image appreciated.

The fact that you posted a huge blow-up of this image in response to a recent post of mine says all I need to know.

That's a dumb thing to say.

How is using a picture of a notable Native American figure, whom one appreciates, the same as using a photo of someone mocking another nationality?

I would never put headphones on a cat. They can't speak English and therefore cannot tell you if they dislike your taste in music.

Just revolting.

I'm part Native American as well. I'm also of Dutch, black, Hispanic, and Jewish descent. Just need to throw that out there. Bubbly Waves is right...how is that the same? You know I have no issue with you...hell, I thought we were on good terms! The fact that Andrew has been suspended twice (by ME) should let you know I'm not playing favorites. Right is right, and wrong is wrong. In this case, nothing personal, you're wrong. If it were the other way around, I'd say so.

Oh they can definitely express if they don't like your music taste by pissing and shitting everywhere! :lol

Don't worry AGD, I've been hit with both the racist and homophobic tag on this board before, simply for mentioning things that are true. You just have to accept that some people have a problem with white people mentioning equality for themselves.

As for the whole 'you can't use a picture of an Indian as your avatar because you are not one yourself' thang - well for once I am absolutely speechless.

http://www.menweb.org/knobbe.htm

Some interesting reading for those inclined.

quote author=Dubstep Sidestep link=topic=16841.msg418191#msg418191 date=1386636964]
I'm part Native American as well. I'm also of Dutch, black, Hispanic, and Jewish descent. Just need to throw that out there. Bubbly Waves is right...how is that the same? You know I have no issue with you...hell, I thought we were on good terms! The fact that Andrew has been suspended twice (by ME) should let you know I'm not playing favorites. Right is right, and wrong is wrong. In this case, nothing personal, you're wrong. If it were the other way around, I'd say so.
[/quote]

I strongly disagree Billy. Using a Native American hero's picture as an avatar is inappropriate. There is a huge controvery in America right now of white America using Native America imagery inappropriately.  My apologies for throwing this thread off track from Mr. Doe's original poor taste in word selection. I suspect AGD is many things, a racist, probably not.

Any of you kiddies know who Harry Truman was?  He once said, "If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen".

There are a handful of thin-skinned wimps here. Serious. Too many sensitive wussies that would get their asses kicked royally if it weren't for the admin's protection.

AGD stimulates this board and makes it jump. He apologized for his mistake. So what. Quit trying to get him in trouble and thinking you're gonna get him banned again. I get so effing tired of you little whiners. You don't like what AGD says then skip his posts. Cut the wamby-pamby candy-assed personal crap and stick with the subject matter of the board. It's much, much more productive and a lot more fun to read, don'tcha think?

By the way, I'm a proud white honkey cat cracker redneck trailer trash bleach boy and I'm damn proud of it.

I would like to weigh in with my insignificant .02.

AGD's avatar is fine.

Oh and Mikie is right.

Great example of somebody shooting his mouth without knowing what he is talking about. My like last 20 posts have been following by AGD assaults.  All because his ego is so huge he can't stand someone standing up to him.

As to your hypocritical post, take your own advice and skip my posts. What a tool, like somebody forced poor Mikie over to the Sandbox and made him post on this thread.

It is amazing how the Doe apologists come out. He says some bad stuff, we don't like it and you attack us. It takes all kinds but stupidity is never in short supply on here.

Well, what is he supposed to do? Never respond to people?

You wouldn't give two shits about the avatar if it wasn't AGD. Your only existence here is to attack either him or Mike. It's tiresome.

I know who Truman was. He was the jerk who dropped the Atomic Bombs when the war was clearly won already.
Had history gone the other way, and Japan won even if say, one A-bomb was dropped, Truman would have gone on trial for that.

^That opens up a whole 'nother can of worms, but I think the second bomb was a bit of overkill.

BRING THE WAR INTO IT, WHY NOT!?!? LETS DISCUSS :)
It's kind of a complicated topic...

In seriousness, I've been to the epicenter of where both bombs detonated. They're amazing places, and if anyone is in Japan for a visit, you have to stop by the Peace Park in Hiroshima.

What are your favorite places to travel to?  :-D

The irony of the subject changing to war being more peaceful than the previous topic is darkly hilarious.

I honestly don't know how that's relevant at all.

But....

Japan was refusing to surrender and was prolonging the war and just generally causing all sorts of problems. So, in an effort to end the biggest war that mankind has ever seen, he dropped the bombs. I may not personally agree with killing innocent people, but he wasn't just sitting behind a desk thinking "I'm feeling like genocide today."

My thoughts are somewhere in between...I personally think one was enough.

Wow, what a charming personal message, ORR.

But, hey, what should I expect from someone who quotes themselves in their own signature?

And I'm the tool...  ::)

I've been to both places as well. I go to Japan every couple of years to visit my grandmother and aunt. They live in Tokyo, which is where we mainly stay, but we have visited Hiroshima and Nagasaki once.

By the way, it's a banable offense to ref a PM in a post. You are one of those guys that have to act out in public. Be a big boy and write me back. You have taken like three shots in this thread. Instead of sinking to your level, which is criticizing someone for expressing their opinion, I acted like an adult and PMd you. Say, you aren't Nickos twin?

Japan was on the verge of surrender. The core government was having meetings every day to discuss the increasingly desperate situation. Their supplies and ammunition were next-to-none. The Americans were fire-bombing everyday. The war was pretty much over.
In any case, I don't think even one was enough. The Soviet Union invaded Manchuria the same day Nagasaki was destroyed. Within days, Japan lost Manchuria, as well as the majority of what was left of their supplies.
Point being, the first bomb was unnecessary. It was the Soviets that would have made Japan surrender, not the A-bombs. And do you honestly feel it's right to kill a hundred thousand people instantly, and many more people dying slowly and painfully with skin hanging off their bodies, from being burned to death, drinking poisoned water, drowning in boiling rivers when they were desperately trying to cool down, and finally, slowing dying from Radiation sickness decades after the explosion. Keep in mind these were nearly all civillians . Do you honestly feel that's the right thing to do? Imagine if you were one of the victims. Nothing justifies the use of the A-bombs.

And yes, it's irrelevant to what we were originally talking about lol.  

You are exactly right. We didn't have to nuke Japan. We studied various scenarios at SWOS, surface warfare officers school and it was the curriculum assessment that a Naval blockade would have  ended the war with very little loss of life.

As someone who has read the rules, it's a "banable" offense (not really, I'll just have to take break for seven days, and, even then, it's at the moderator's discretion, not yours) to post the contents of said message. You'll notice that I've done no such thing.

Please tell me how writing you back makes me a big boy? I have no intention of filling your desires for some petty argument. How's this for hypocritical - I stand up to you and you respond. See any parallels?

Really? Acted like an adult? Because I'm quite sure a child wrote that PM.

Not to mention the Soviet Invasion of Manchuria

Despite it's military intentions that have only (relatively) recently changed, it's a very peaceful country. I have spent 3 weeks backpacking through the rural mountains of Shikoku, a famous island used  by pilgrims to aid in their quest of spiritual enlightenment. 88 temples ring the island, and there is some great scenery. And food.

Agreed. But the Japanese only fought in major wars from 1894 to 1945. When you look at how long Japan's history is, that's like a dot.
I've always enjoyed visiting Japan, the people are very nice. The food is top-quality, and I've always loved Japan for it's food even though I don't eat seafood at all. Have you ever tried Mos Burger? It's a favourite of mine!

Yeah...it's posting the contents thats the issue.

I feel less favored now as I had assumed I was the only recipient of a nasty PM  from our friend ORR.

My oh my.

But even when they were an isolated country (the era of the Shogun), different areas were always at war. They're a nation of warriors, proud and relentless!
Militaristic doods, them.

Is this going to become like an exclusive club?

Perhaps we should make a support group.

I guess. Japan has always been proud of their Samurai history. Understandably

I'm glad its through pm and not on the board, though. I myself have gotten a few doozies over the years (not from him).

You seem compelled to act out in public. Mature adults don't do that, children do. I didn't publicly "stand up to you", I sent you a PM. No hypocrisy. You are the guy having shots at me(3 before I pisted to you), on a thread not even about me. Funny, nothing about the racist comments from you, you just want to bash me. 2nd, the Mods don't appreciate squabbles in threads. 3rd, are you sure u aren't Nikos twin?

Honestly, I know nothing about any racial comments. Hence the reason I haven't defended either side.
I've only voiced my own opinion that using a picture of a Native American isn't an inherently offensive act.


I'm not sure what you expected to happen in this thread.


Let's do a blood test.

Well, happy to meet in person and work it out, forget the blood tests.

You aren't aware of alleged racist comments???? Really????? You haven't read and digested the comments of the thread author's post?

But again, you hurl insults publicly and refuse to PM. Again, how old are you?

I'm sure AGD will be delighted to wake up to find his supporters have changed the discussion from his highly questionable comments to my personal opinions.

I appreciate the equally energetic PM back! Point taken.

No, I don't know what those comments are.

Yes.

I don't exactly place stock in second-hand tales.

I don't want to take this to PM because I don't feel like being berated with swear words and baseless insults (which are very mature things, by the way.)

You peg me for an AGD supporter because I disagree with you? I don't follow.


Look, if I just admit that you are more beautiful and intelligent than I am, can this end?

PMing a response to a PM cuts to the chase. pixletwin PM'd me back, made his point, I dug it. Mature, to the point, no acting out.

Ok, you aren't aware then of, whatever. Was confused you were posting numerous times about my comments in a thread titled "AGD's comments", and in which you made no comments about AGD's comments.

Sure, done. I love your hair!

One last time - I use Joseph's avatar as a reminder - especially to me - to be more tolerant, hence the tag, "Just a reminder...". Can you not get it through your thick skull that this is what is known as a "compliment" in the real world ? As for "You don't speak for Natuve Americans nor is your improper use of this image appreciated", who died and made you Paramount Chief of all Native Americans ? Also, my Joseph avatar has been up for a good few weeks, yet it's only now that you decide that it's offensive to you. Your faux-outrage is roughly as convincing as your last "golly-look-what-an-asshole-Mike-Love-is" post was.

You're sucking the life out of this board: not on your own but you're sure as hell not helping. It's a strange, strange fan who only posts to denigrate a founding band member or other posters. I'd call that disruptive, and intentionally so.

Mods: Billy is a friend, as is Smile Holland. I don't even know who Real BB is and my feelings re: Jonas over the years here are public record.

You think I read even a little of what you write? I generally don't unless it's you attacking a post of mine.  First time I am hearing the "Just a reminder". Whatever. The avatar was offensive the first time I saw it. Based on your comments about Muslims, gays, it's obvious sensitivity is not your strong suit. And my being part Native American means nothing to you.

I asked you weeks ago to ignore my posts, and stop arguing but there you are, after most each and every one, disagreeing and taking issue.

Dude, you sucked the life out of this board years ago by bullying people and blowing up with angry outbursts.

I dared you before and you couldn't do it. Stop responding to my posts, ignore them, move on, skip um, leave me alone. You tell people that all the time. I am entitled to my opinions, just as you are. But I am sick and tired of people telling me I can't express my opinion or what it should be.

I am not alone in disliking Mike Love. There are whole web pages devoted to it, so really, that's your argument? We should all brown nose Mr. Love?

If I want to post something from a Mike Love interview, I will do that. I don't rant at you in all the numerous threads you initiate. BB at Pandora's Box, and on and on.

Again, stop responding to my posts, ignore them, move on. Dare ya. Now go and write a new book. I will buy it.  ;D

Point proven. My work is done.  ;D

I knew it, I dared ya but you couldn't just walk away. If "My work is done" means you will never respond to me again, and will be skipping my posts, Yay!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  ;D ;D ;D

And I will do the same. Now, I have to go tweet that I am on a bus.  ;D

I thought I had made a point about ignoring each other…  yet it took another 12+ hours to draw that same conclusion.

Before we get misunderstandings on moderators protecting certain members.
Yes, I can call AGD a friend of mine.
And yes, I was also co-responsible for banning him in the past. And if he really gets out of line, he knows what the consequences are.
And regarding ORR: although not a friend of mine, I personally have nothing against him either, but for him the same rules apply.

To be honest, this topic is almost begging for sanctions. But I also judge on the situation. And yesterdays ML topic and especially this one are typical examples of one person fueling the other up and vice versa (and taking along a few members extra along the line). Which means that IF I happen to think that AGD has just taken his last chance and should be banned, then ORR has certainly done enough in this topic to deserve multiple bans. Which - in my opinion - means both are out.
And is that really worth it? I think not. Is it really that difficult to transcend above yourself and simply let it go, even though we agree extremely on certain issues?

(yes, I’d like to see that “ignore” button return as well, but I don’t have a clue how tbh)

Again - for the record: there's enough room on this board for both Mike lovers and haters (and everything in between). We don't forbid that. And I didn't lock that last ML topic for that reason either.

At last on the avatar (non-)issue. Does this also mean that I can’t use a picture of Mandela as a token of my appreciation of what he has done for his country in his life, just because I’m not a S.A. citizen, AND I’m white? Showing just a picture of a native American is not an act of racism, and the reason behind it (which is obviously positive) is no reason at all for us to act upon. Next thing will be to forbid the of albino cats being deliberately exposed to too much dB’s giving the poor animal permanent hearing damage.

C'mon folks: it's almost Christmas. Put on your favourite BB X-mas album (MiC box is allowed as well), enjoy the music, forgive each others imperfections for once, and remember that we all have one thing in common here: we're fans of (one of) the best pop group ever.

I missed this 1st time around but did read it later & it's clear to me that you are being resentful for exactly nothing. 1st off, it's impossible to know every single meaning of every word, I bet even Shakespeare couldn't boast of large vocabulary. So it's perfectly normal that someone would misunderstand another speaker. 2ndly, the poster not once apologized to you; he didn't act like a troll harping on the same thing over & over but listened to your version & stopped. You, on the other hand, chose to continue & throwing out insults & sarcastic remarks. That was really out of line & I dare say of both of you, Aegir had more tact. Seriously, why did you bring this stuff again? It doesn't have anything to do with initial post of the thread.

For the record, I personally never made reference to AGD's photo and I fail to see why it's remotely relevant. The comments about Muslims/gays/whatever, I didn't like - end of. The photo of an Indian, I couldn't give a sh*t about and am slightly baffled as to how anyone could see it as anything other than, er... a photo of an Indian.

However, if comments re how Muslims/gays receive beneficial treatment over straight whites isn't cause for concern from the moderators (or anyone else on here for that matter), then I guess this board is maybe a little too right-wing for my tastes.... And that doesn't make me a p*ssy, it makes me a nice open-minded non-bigot.

And I just HATE people whining about the benefits system. If every single person on benefits in the UK - whether black, white, Muslim, atheist, whatever - went back to work tomorrow, it'd barely make a ripple in the nation's finances. If every rich tax-dodging arsehole and banker paid their taxes properly, the nation's finances would be TRANSFORMED!

I understand people can get pretty frustrated when they're out of work and can't get a job, but why pick on the little guy??

Have to throw this out...I'm extremely far left, not right. If anything, I think social services should be increased, not decreased. sh*t, I just lost my house a month ago and had st sell our wedding rings just to pay the rent. Nowhere did I say I *agreed* with the original post, just that I knew what Andrew was actually saying
 Huge difference.

Avatar? What? Me Worry?

You might want to... the Thought Nazis are walking tonight.  :ahh

Exactly. Believe me , I'd be the FIRST person to take offense otherwise!

Nope.  I got 3! What a coincidence!

Wow! You got one too? He must be PM'ing everybody in the Sandbox that doesn't agree with him. Kinda sad really.

As long as you'd be equally as not bothered had it been some regular board member who'd made the comments, than fair enough.

As long as I can make veiled jibes about Muslims (pun intended!) and gays and, er, young pregnant women (those benefit-scrounging sluts!), and as long as no-one can pick me up on it, then fine, argument over.

In all seriousness I must ask, what exactly is the beef with a non American Indian using an image of one in his avatar? What makes the likeness of your own people so off limits to others?

If there was anything to find offense with, it was AGD's comments.


I didn't find them that rude or out of good taste. AGD has been on better behavior recently and has settled back into his role as "crusty BBs expert".... ;D

I did actually have a problem with part of that statement, but since he had already apologized for it and admitted he was out of line on that part, I did indeed let it go. As for the other part of it , filledeplage summed up my feelings at the top of this page.

Actually Andrew very specifically only apologized about mentioning gays, and that was it. If I said 'I hate the way the Polish and gays get all the jobs' and then later said, 'sorry if I offended any gays', would that be sufficient apology? To a Polish person I imagine it wouldn't. But hey ho... Can't be bothered arguing anymore. Like I said, as long as similar beneficial treatment to that which he complained about isn't happening on this board then fair enough. But if certain people are allowed to get away with certain behaviour and others aren't - well, that's just sh*t isn't it.

Again, I may have misread it, or read into it wrong (stated asuch previously)

 It's actually a myth that asylum seekers and such get more benefits in the UK, they actually get less. However they do have access to crisis type loans that residing UK benefit claimers rarely get to have.

It's no secret that single mothers get top priority with local Councils for accommodation. Which is why so many 17 year olds are getting knocked up.

Gay people don't receive any special treatment in regards to claiming Welfare in the UK.

Actually, not acting like a petulant child, having to act out publicly.

Also, following the Board Rules:

I guess the Mods don't enforce their own rules anymore.

Someone will always be offended by something.  Personally, I feel this is an opportunity for a meaningful discussion on "racism/sexism/homophobia", etc.  Because, and this just may be my opinion, but EVERYONE has these biases lurking inside them.  This is true, sorry, but it is.  Everyone, no matter who they are, can be prone to thoughts and feelings regarding others that they may be successful in squashing, but which reside inside them nonetheless.  Is it better to hide these things?  Or to come out and admit it?  At least with outing ourselves around these issues we could then examine the real causes - but typically it just gives rise to one being vilified as a "bigoted nazi homophobic terrible monster" and others dressing themselves up in white robes of self righteous indignation, pretending to be free of any such personal flaws themselves.   Is AGD really terribly bigoted or homophobic?  Or is he just a normal person with some of this inside of him (as we all have) who had a moment of temper and stated some thing which may or may not have any truth, but perhaps sometimes appear as if they do.  He may "apologize" if he wishes, but that isn't going to really address the issue being talked about - those who are finger pointing are hypocrites, even though you may not even realize it.  

You might be right, because if we do, by now you'd be banned. And you know I hate doing that. But seeing the number of complaints we're receiving these last 24 hours, I'm more worried about your status as a member than anyone else's right now.

I'm seriously asking you to log out, leave the board for a day, and cool/calm down a bit. And I'm not saying this to lit up the fire even more, but for your own good.

OK. I gotta weigh in here.

I think AGD's comments in regards to Muslims and gays are deplorable. But he did apologize about the gays. However, why is it that we are still allowing him to continue on this board while he willingly posts hate about a certain religion (on a topic he really doesn't understand...he might know The Beach Boys well, but I don't think he understands government policy very much, sounds like he buys into what the right-wing hate groups in his country tell him to think). But anyways Mods, will have be held to task for posting hate about one religion in particular? I hope he doesn't get banned, but I think posting things like that are in very poor taste and extremely hurtful and uniformed.

And while I do think ORR went a bit overboard in criticizing AGD's use of that Native American photo, I think a lot of people on here are jumping all over him here, because they wanna make him look foolish while making sure that we don't lose Andrew and all his knowledge.

Thanks sweetdudejim for chiming in.

As for me personally: I'm not happy with this situation at all. I don't think this was a case of just one or two persons being to blame (although some may think differently about it). No matter who we would have banned, it would have resulted in more negative responses. Which is why I asked for a cooling down. Not a perfect solution either, I know, but seeing the sudden emotions that started overtaking this topic, to me a more proper solution...

So if my previous post addressed to ORR gave you (or anyone else) the impression I was (solely) blaming him, my apologies, I certainly didn't want to make that impression. I just addressed to the guy that - imo - at that moment was getting the most direct responses, and seeing his replies was clearly not comfortable with that.

I think more people are jumping on ORR because he wouldn't let it go. And then kept going off on more tangents from there.  
I also don't think AGD is constantly spouting about any particular religion, but he did mention those damn muslims this time. Many people post about many things, now and then, tied to to what they're posting on the BBs and very few get called out for it.
I presume you're saying that anyone that posts once about something you find in poor taste should be beaten?  Then banned the next time?  Going to be a mighty small board...  Maybe the constant influx of new 10 year old fans who know everything about everything, will make up for it

Who ever said AGD was 'constantly' saying offensive things about religion, 'damn muslims' or otherwise? Once was enough.

I'm an atheist - as with 99% of the worlds scientists, I think all religion is basically nonsense - but that doesn't mean I approve of people using Muslims as scapegoats. Tell you what, I sure as hell wouldn't want to be a Muslim in Britain today with the amount of venom they have poured on them from certain sections of the press/public. I don't care what benefits were (supposedly) being offered...  

Them as don't want to know why I said what I said, stop reading. Now. There, you've been warned, so any consequent bitching is inadmissible.

OK, so... I was getting more than a little ticked at Gregg's constant harping on my being a bookie and trading on the misery of others (I gather there's a family history - know something ? NOT MY PROBLEM, I don't live or work in the US), so I decided to inform him why I took the job, viz I'd been out of work for 18 months on minimal benefits after having my previous workplace (a bakery, since you asked - now I guess I'm contributing to the world obesity crisis, oh and global warming too, of course) closed by the parent company at ten days notice, thus I wasn't, at age 56, going to turn down a job I could do, was local, challenging and reasonably well-paid. And indoors. Being in something of a high temper, I made reference to my being on minimal benefits because I wasn't part of a recognised minority, and without thinking included the gay community. That was entirely wrong on about nine levels, and I apologise unreservedly for that, especially to Clay. The muslim thing, no, because it's not that much of an exaggeration: when I was in the benefits office signing on, I jokingly said "if I'd come in here waving a copy of the Qu'uran, you'd be throwing money at me", and instead of laughing along, she bridled somewhat and said huffily "we have to look after our minorities" - except apparently my minority, the Roma, but no matter. True, the vast majority of UK muslims are decent, hard-working an law abiding folk, but as with any community (and that includes the English), there will be those who play the system. Why do so many immigrants and refugees wash up in the UK despite having to pass through at least three other EU nations where they could settle ? Because we're a soft touch, is why. What about the muslim communities who who willingly accept the benefits on offer then declare they only respect Sharia law, and sometimes rail against us ?  I'm English and hugely proud of my country, and increasingly it breaks my heart to see what's happening to this still green and pleasant land. Our colonial past has greatly enriched this nation in so many ways - try walking down Brick Lane on a Sunday if you want an experience to give all your senses a superb workout ! - but there are times when the tree-hugging PC brigade go way too far. I'm all for fairness for all, but if you live here, you play by the rules, be you Muslim, English, Mormon or Scientologist. FWIW I disagree with women getting preferential if treatment if they decide to try their hand a national politics. If they're good enough, they'll get elected. Filling artificial quotas is no way to run a country.

And... I'm drifting from the point. Gregg had strained my patience (admittedly in the course of making himself look pretty silly, if the other posts are any indication) and I made a bad choice. So, I'm human (bet that surprised you, but yes, I am), I make mistakes and bad calls. I like this place, a lot, and as with my country, it pains me to see people trying to be nothing but disruptive, be it derailing any given thread with badly phrased drivel or trying so very hard to find something negative in a perfectly innocuous interview (no need - as has very recently proven, there's enough regrettable stuff that doesn't require digging). This place has done some sterling research work, and has directly influenced some recent - and doubtless future - archive releases (you don't have to believe me on this, but it's true), and most of the folk here are good, good people. We all have this common cause, the most wonderful pop music ever crafted, which should bind us in, if not exactly brother(sister)hood, then a united vision. Doesn't look like that right now, does it, and yes, I regret my part in this: I've got a short fuse for idiots and I should walk away from posts patently designed to annoy me much more often than I have in the past. I'm a work in progress in this respect. Hopefully old dogs can be taught new tricks. This Beach Boys thing should be fun. It was once, and it's not going to be around forever. Asking for a group hug and general bygones being bygones ? Nah, because it's not going to happen: speaking personally, I know there are folk on this board who think about the same of me as I do of them, so no point expending energy there, but I'm with Smile Holland - reasonably peaceful co-existence should be possible. I'm willing to give it a go.

And... anyone know how to install an "ignore" function here ?  ;D

Well said.

Some points are worth ignoring, others are worth confronting. What someone experiences firsthand is just that, and expressing it should never be subject to the kind of scrutiny we've witnessed. I wasn't even going to comment, probably shouldn't, but this whole thread is much ado about nothing. It's an open forum, period. Barring direct personal attacks on an individual, why even raise the notion that someone's opinion or statement on what they witnessed firsthand should be "banned" if it contradicts what someone else feels on any issue? That's getting into speech codes, and I hate the notion even more than the practice itself. I hope it doesn't go there, ever.

What's the threshold for walking away, or pressing the hypothetical "ignore button"?

If you're enjoying a ham sandwich for lunch, and someone walks up to you saying "Why are you eating that turkey sandwich?", you might laugh it off and say "It's ham and swiss on rye, not turkey". If that person continues on the rant then tries to convince you that your ham sandwich is in fact a turkey sandwich, and you shouldn't be eating it for some reason or another, then you know you're dealing with an irrational if not idiotic person...and then it's time to walk away.

And keep in mind we're living in an era where education in some circles has been reduced to finding ways to make a wrong answer on a mathematics exam "right" if the student believes it's right. In other words, 2+2 equaling anything but 4 is not always a wrong answer.

That's a positive sign for the future, isn't it?  ;D

All taken on board and appreciated, however I must say that my original post/thread wasn't 'patently designed to annoy you'. It was a direct response to being extremely annoyed by something you'd said. Guess I've got a short fuse too...

And yes, the Beach Boys music is beyond wonderful and they're the greatest band of all time and that's a scientific fact. Let's leave it there.

No... but this is:

+

 :lol

Why is the Red Cross a positive sign for the future AND laughable?

... and some fell on stony ground.  :)

There are important distinctions to be made here.

It is my impression that mods on this board are most interested in how posters treat one another, not necessarily what they believe. We have certainly had a lot of spirited political /cultural debate on the board, and discussions about minority groups haven't inevitably led to bannings.

Andrew's original post was not actually about gay people, or Muslims, or women. It was about a personal frustration with his local government. If his post had been on the order of "I hate gays / Muslims / women because ..." or "I think gays / Muslims / women are inferior because ..." I would feel far differently. But he never said or implied that these groups deserved ill treatment.

There have been other posters here who have specifically written messages about how they don't like gay people acting a certain way, or how women can't ever love the Beach Boys, and other such nonsense. I find those posts more distasteful than someone's perceptions of reverse bias. Andrew has never posted much on these subjects, or indeed shown much interest in them otherwise.

All that being said, I don't think the original post was one of Andrew's best, or especially wise. But I think Billy's attitude is the right one, and the reaction of some folks here to this entire discussion has been distasteful. Let's move along; there's less than nothing to be seen here.

Well said.

5 pages already.... isn't it about time for this to morph into an anti-Mike thread???

 >:D

 :lol

I think the TM teachings picked up by AGD from Mike Love have been working.... :lol

Exactly. Wherever anybody stands, and I think this whole thing should cool down, Andrew still is typing up stuff about how minorities and Muslims are abusing the system. And while, yes, there are surely Muslims doing exactly what he says, I'm sure there are many, many more white people doing this same damn thing or even worse. Yet you don't see Andrew going on about white people on the board, or going into a public office, and making off-color remarks about people of a certain religion. In fact, I find it kinda sad that he would go in there saying that thing about "waving the Qur'an", because to me (as a person who deals with the public) it would seem like this person had some irrational hatred for a group. Honestly, that kinda reminds me of people like Michele Bachmann. There are crappy people of all shapes, sizes and colors. Especially people abusing government programs. It ain't just Muslims.

After reading all the crap in this thread, it does my heart good, that there appears to be so many infallible people in this Beach Boys forum. That they never had a bad thought about anything or anyone. Truly amazing, and should be commended for attaining such utter perfection. WOW!

I used to manage a c-store in one of the two worst council estates in my town. Of a Thursday, the workshy scum and lowlife who infested the area (all white, and who treated my store like it was a food/alcohol bank - shoplifting skills were passed down from father to son, and I'm not making that up, I caught one doing it) would waddle in, get their benefits and then come up to the counter and buy scratchcards, cigarettes and booze. I had to be polite to these sorry excuses for humans. My mother, who worked all her life, up to 70, and paid all her taxes and contributions had to exist on the lowest basic pension and income support. If you like, I can rant about them too, but frankly, I've had a gutful of them. Just because I don't mention someone doesn't mean I don't despise them.  ;D

In no particular order (except for the first) I detest:

Morrissey
The English Defence League
The Westboro Baptists
The likes of Abu Hamza
The Daily Mail
Benefit scroungers al all religions, creeds and colors
Robert Mugabe
Anyone who confuses Roma and gypsies with tinkers and travellers
Tinkers and travellers
Most of the punters in my shop
Bigots
Zealots
Fundamentalists of any persuasion
Sacha Baron Cohen
The NRA

That'll do for now, I think.

Oh, and the shitweasel who wrote "Barbara-f******-Ann" !  ;D

:lol

AGD , You really do crack me up at times  :lol

Some twat called Fred Farter   ;)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbara_Ann

Oh there's plenty of white trash scum in the UK. The Jeremy Kyle show would be comedy gold if it wasn't for the simple fact that these are real people living amongst us.

Ali G was superb because he was taking the royal piss out of white yoof pretending to be black street kids (if they'd realised at the time, he might not be here now). With Borat, it was all downhill faster than a greased piglet on ice. He's of a kind with Russell Brand - not nearly as clever or edgy as he thinks he is.

Whoa...just got wind of this discussion from MSNBC.  I'd like to stand up for my dear (and old) friend, AGD.
We were just pups when he visited the new land some 30 years ago and bunked with me for a month.
Took time out from his investigations to advise me on a teeth-cutting political-community project--making
the Irish in Minneapolis attend to a dress code.  For the record, it was AGD who convinced me
it should be not only the Catholics but also the Protestants.  So what I'm saying is, AGD takes the broader
view.  He taught me something about meta-ideology.  Which is also wisdom.  He has my thanks.

Doing us all a favor and locking this one.