The Smiley Smile Message Board

http://somethingelsereviews.com/2013/09/26/one-track-mind-the-beach-boys-al-jardine-on-help-me-rhonda-dont-fight-the-sea-sloop-john-b-others/

On the latest tour with Brian.

....And you’re going to hear those things in their original style when you come to our concerts. You have the architect of the music up there, and you have original Beach Boys voices. What else can you ask? This is as close as we can get to it, minus a couple of upstarts — or one particular upstart — and, unfortunately, Carl and Dennis, who can’t be with us.

Distinct lack of grace. All rather sad, really.

Not really! It's a nice plainspoken interview and there's nothing sad about this tour, even without That Other Guy... The upstart missed out.

Brian's recent tact is probably better: "no comment."

Why does the thread title start with "Ouch!" ?  I don't see any "ouch" statements by Al during the brief interview.

You must've missed the explosive bombshell about Sean Lennon.

Go Al! 8)

So, Al arranged "Sloop John B" for Pet Sounds?

Oh, c'mon now. He's careful to credit Brian with expanding it and bringing all the good stuff:

"He took my arrangement, after I changed the chord structure to fit the Beach Boys’ style. I told him: “This is something that we could put our style on, and we could have ourselves a pretty big hit.” He took it to heart, and we expanded on the concept. It was just the great template of a song. Brian never fails to amaze. He’s just got a sixth sense for this stuff."

Claiming he had a template isn't saying he arranged it for Pet Sounds. If he wants to think he helped inspire it, gee what's the harm there. He's not asking for a few million dollars in court.

Besides, the next person in this thread will mention Wilson's home recordings of the tune.

Anyway, Al needs to save his energy for taking credit for the White Album this fall.

For sure - Alan's comign across as a bitter and petty-minded little man.

Really?

All the digs at Mike, not mentioning him by name, "we're the heart and soul of The Beach Boys"... so childish. Just STFU and let the music speak for you.

Mike has screwed Al over so many times that its not suprising that Al is like this.

Why? Because he has one very brief slight dig at Mike's expense (if it can even be called that)?

I thought he came across as enthusiastic and proud to be a Beach Boy as always...

Besides, perhaps its time we all stopped fighting it and just accepted the truth: maybe Mike is an arsehole.  :)

As AGD said, all very undignified from Al and not the first time. He's burning his bridges with Mike and I wouldn't be surprised if he dishes the dirt on the goings on during the C50 and the aftermath at some point.

I see now how it can get tiring to work with Al most of the year for three and a half decades. Whew, time to meditate...

I think it's worth mentioning that they are essentially The Beach Boys.  You know how many people are being fooled by Mike Love's "Beach Boys"?  Probably a crapload of people going to those shows, I'd wager.  He gets the name--BAD has to prove that they are the ones who deserve it.  And I don't think they can rely on the music to speak for them when the general public--and probably even the general audience of a "Beach Boys" show--aren't even aware that there are two bands!

No, they're not. Neither group are The Beach Boys obviously. It can't really be The Beach Boys if 4 key members are missing.

Al can say whatever he likes. Unless you know exactly what has gone down the last 20 odd years, its pretty rich telling him to STFU.

Right.

At least his digs are put in a nice way. He could have flat out called him an asshole or worse. I am quite convinced at this point that more went down at the end of C50 than Mike just going back to the status quo. Wondering now if some verbal promises or whatever were broken last minute.

Or did Al screw himself over and he blames Mike?

I cant help but feeling Al is gonna screw up any chance of a nother reunion..

Nope, money cures all bad feelings, especially in the Beach Boys. Nothing Al has said is worse than Brian accusing Mike of firing the 3 of them.

Let him! Al can say whatever he wants short of slander. It's gettin' real late in the game here - water's already under the bridge and we're headed for the finish line. Either sh*t or get off the pot. The 3 or 4 REAL Beach Boys are going into the studio to make a record and Mike can't put his name on it. It's Mike's problem if he and Bruce the Coattail Rider can't get their sh*t together and join forces. This is good for the fans. We got a big gun named Jeff Beck. And we got Blondie Chaplin. Can't go wrong with this band, at least for the short term!

Mike kicked Al outta the band and he sued him AND Brian. Seems like they got past their differences to do the C50 and then Mike bailed. Al's had enough bullshit and so has Brian. I find it hard to blame those guys.

To me wanting BAD to be the Beach Boys is an Al and fan-tasy. I don't hear Brian claim BBs for his solo tour. He seems quite happy to be Brian and guests.

as usual Al just tells it like it is, very matter-of-factly. he doesn't come across at all bitter, really... unlike certain members here.

Exactly.  Al is actually very easy on Mike, more than most people here, and he doesn't say anything that isn't true.  Those who have a problem with it are the usual Mike apologists and boosters who refuse to acknowledge anything negative about Mike.  Go Al!

Yes, Al surely is coming off as bitter. However, I noticed you defended ol' Brucie when he insulted an entire continent (the one you live in, in fact) saying they "hate success" apparently because he has a hard-on for Ronald Reagan and you Europeans are apparently all socialists like that Barack Obama guy. So yeah, that's not bitter or petty or anything. No pathetic pre-conceived notions about a bunch of country he probably knows dick about. Just a guy expressing his opinion, right?? Sure.

Or Mike for that matter, he's spent years basically saying Brian's a pathetic shell of a man who can't think for himself. He even complained that the group's latest album went to number 3. And won't stop complaining that he can't get Brian in the situation the he prefers. But no, you never pointed out how bitter he always comes across.

Just Al.  I was almost starting to believe you were starting to be less obvious in your allegiance to Mike n' Bruce. But a comment like yours shows where you heart really lies.

If only we could all take a lesson from Mr. Positivity and "get around" these petty issues.

Hi, I'm Fan-tasy Mike Love. You may know me from some Sunkist commercials a few decades ago or from my incredibly successful bleating on the soundtrack of one of those Dom Cruise films. People often approach me when I'm "hanging ten" on the beach or attempting to bed a series of naive young girls with low self esteem who want to get into show business but have to settle for a green room in Biloxi for now and ask me: "Fan-tasy Mike Love, how could we get past negativity and bad feelings about our fellow man?" That's when I wipe my glassy, watery eyes and nod thoughtfully, staring off just three inches past their head where the Maharashi says the zygon chakra resides and fortifies our energies... after a few seconds I then sigh, belch a Morningstar soy sausage belch and explain that meditation isn't just the topic of a few badly performing Beach Boys songs from the late 60s and early 70s but a real and vital practice that can help fill countless hours of our day sitting still repeating nonsensical words. That's when they say "Thank you, Fan-tasy Mike Love. I'll pretend that's some sort of wisdom and go talk to Bruce Johnston instead. You weird, weird man."

Surf's up!

Ok, I admit it. I'm just killing time until details from tonight's show pop up. How exciting!

Anyway, ooo yes, Alan Jardine. He's a semi-automatic spitting cobra of a man, right? Oooo.

(http://thecenterforthearts.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/al-jardine300.jpg)

If we're talking about comments made in an interview, which I thought was the issue, then Al is setting a new precedent. Yeah, Mike led the movement to have Al kicked out of the band (although didn't there have to a vote taken?), but I don't recall many interviews where Mike made derogatory comments about Al. Actually, you have to look hard to find the real reasons (facts) why Mike wanted Al out of the band.

Yes, Al is being asked questions about the "end" of the reunion, but you would think Al, a 72 year-old man who has seen so much go wrong in his band, would find a more tactful and appropriate way to answer these questions. I mean, take the high road, show a little class, if you have any.

If you don't like speculation or an honest opinion, then click on.... What I really find sad (mad?) about Al's comments is that he doesn't appear to realize that he is being used by Brianandhiswifeandmanagers just to sell tickets. Sure, Al alone ain't gonna sell many tickets, but he does add something to the package, and that's what Melinda is selling - a package deal. I really think Brian could care less whether or not Al Jardine is on stage with him. But, maybe they do like his over-the-top praising of Brian, his constant ass-kissing, and his forced laughter at every syllable Brian utters.

With all due respect Sheriff, I was AT the Pittsburgh show. Whether or not the inclusion of Dave and Al is purely to move tix, the end result is you had two lively linchpins driving the entire show stage center. Probably the closest we'll ever get to a reunion. The real contagious energy that Al brings to the proceedings (not to mention a flawless voice) makes any BAD&Beck show far more interesting than a typical hit parade. Leave that stuff for sloppy seconds at Sea World.

As for his quotables, I fully agree with many here who basically said 'if you had to endure what Al has endured, he has the right'. Damn straight. He is saying what I would say. And I have loads of class. Loads.

Good 'un, Leo!  Tellin' it like it is.   :-D

In my case, I'll be headed for the BADBeckBlondie show.  Looking forward to the occasion.

You know, maybe I'm just not cynical enough for this board.  So, since I'm so darn blissfully naive, Im just going to go on believing that maybe Al and Brian and David actually did enjoy playing together in a band again. And, I'm going to keep thinking that they like making music and just want to keep on going., making new albums and touring together. And, I'll just suppose that maybe they were more than a bit disappointed that Mike decided otherwise. And, maybe that's  all Al's saying.

In my world, I can  think what I want.  ;D

You know, overall I respect the point you're making, but I gotta say, why is it all of the sudden on Al to be the guy taking the high road? Mike Love never really cared about that. Neither did Dennis, or to be honest, even Brian during the "my band is so much better than The Beach Boys" years.

And maybe Al is finally just exploding about this, because he feels like this might be one of the last chances to leave a big mark with The Beach Boys, and instead of going out there and trying to work more together, as Brian, Al and Dave wanted, Mike decided that it'd be easier to tour the county fair circuit.  Now, mind you, Mike Love has as much right to do what he wants as anybody else, but I could still see why Al is peeved. He liked having his band back, the thing he knew for most of his adult life, and he probably thinks it sucks that it got taken away as quickly as it seemed to come back together.

Two quick points on that. History has shown, after you sort out the facts, that the three you mentioned - Mike, Dennis, and Brian - were not always good bandmates. Brian consistently disappointed, Dennis was a negative and divisive influence, and do I even have to describe Mike? And I'm not even talking about their personal lives! Their bouts of unprofessional behavior is legendary. You almost began to EXPECT bad things from those guys. But Al was different, at least in his dealings with the press. Yeah, he would always say something wacky or totally false, but he never resorted to taking shots at his bandmates. Al was the normal one, right? Good old Al Jardine, the gentleman farmer. Keep it clean with Al Jardine. I don't care for Al's new attitude. At all.

Now, to make this perfectly clear, and to address Doo Dah's above post/response.... Al has every right - EVERY RIGHT - to say whatever he pleases in his interviews. Al earned that right. I don't begrudge him that at all. I'm just saying that I wish he wouldn't "go there", wouldn't stir things up, and wouldn't make negative assertions about Mike - IN THE MEDIA. I wish he would save his comments either for a BRI meeting or say them to Mike's face. And maybe Al already did both. I just don't think it serves any positive purpose to dredge up negative feelings in these recent interviews. Dodge the questions. If you don't know how, just ask Brian. he's mastered the art.

I can understand how others might disagree with my stance. "Give it right back to Mike. He deserves it..." Nah, not after after everything that has gone down. And I mean everything. All of the triumphs - and tragedies - that those guys lived through. Together. Again, if Al has something to say or get off his chest or complain about, find a better outlet. Really, at this stage in their lives, with all the success and fame and wealth and honors, I would've hoped they would've been past all the crap and backbiting. I guess I'm naive...

Folks in here acting like little old Al Jardine has really said anything more harmful and petty than the ridiculous sh*t the people behind Brian have said in recent years. Seriously?

"I wish they all could be lke David Marks" (singalong)

"I wish I could be like David Marks. Fa, fa, fa, fa, fa, fa, fa, fa..."  ;D

I honestly didn't find anything insulting in that interview.  Of course Al is bitter towards Mike, wouldn't you be in his situation?  But then taking that into consideration, I think he's been pretty tame about it.  There hasn't been any name calling or anything, he's just stating how he feels.  What's so wrong with that?

Upstart - One who has suddenly gained wealth, power, or other prominence, but either has not received social acceptance or has become arrogant or presumptuous.

I'd say that's name calling. Kinda a weird word choice for an otherwise "clean Jardine" interview. Not that I disagree.

Guess Al is just promoting the tour by controversy.

I think he comes across as a guy who finally stands up against someone who has not been very nice to him one time too many. Good for him.

The Beach Boys are being downright civil towards each other compared to the ex-Kinks. Dave Davies is in the latest Rolling Stone talking about reuniting with Ray, and at the same time calling both Mick Avory and Ray "arseholes". No,  I think Al is being quite gentlemanly here. And it's hard to argue with which group is more legit - the one that has the BB's primary composer, arranger, visionary, along with the best voice in the band, and one of the original BB guitarists....or....the band that has their main lead singer, frontman, often lyricist...and a guy that can't stop adjusting his mic stand - when he's not clapping or dancing.

Methinks thou art a little biased towards BW's band

As a protest Al has not cashed a single BRI licencing check from Mike since the end of the C50....













...... ;)

D

Seriously, what does Bruce contribute to their show?

I like Al, honestly though he needs a new publicist! Negative is always the wrong direction and I think he doesn't have to point out that four ex Beach Boys are better than two. I say ex as the band did break up in 1997 only to come alive again for roughly 18 months. I mean just be happy you are touring with most of this great band. IF it is about music why does he care how they are billed? Calling themselves the Beach Boys will sell more seats but not make it sound any better.

Ah, now THAT would be very interesting... that I would love to see. Who knows, maybe perceived BB 'history' will require re-writing once more. ::)

When he's speaking on his own account, he can bitch and whine for all he's worth (and boy, hasn't he down the years ?) but when he's putatively speaking for two others, maybe he should dial it back a bit and consult them ? Every single interview there's a dig at Mike: OK, we understand, he's not your favorite person in the world right now, but once would be enough.

Brian didn't. Granted, he said it sure felt like it, but that was prefaced by him - OK, his publicist -  correctly stating that Mike couldn't fire him, or anyone.

As for another reunion... not gonna happen. The effort last time was seemingly too much for all concerned.


My allegiance lies where it always has - with the incomparable music and with the frequently frustrating people who made it. Oh, and with as much accuracy as I can bring to the business of documenting that incredible music.

Did Mike cause the end of the C50 tour and celebration? If Mr. Stebbins is to be believed(and I have no reason not to believe him), then most likely. The group had some pretty big offers, and could have continued on well into the new year. But Al is jeopardizing the chances of him, Brian, Dave, Mike and Bruce ever being in the same room again, let alone a stage. The likelihood is getting smaller and smaller with every interview. He needs to be quiet for a few months.

In all fairness, Brian did his fair share by saying that it felt like they had been fired by Mike.

He can't be quiet for a few months on the urging of a few fans online, he's gonna be doing press for radio/web/newspapers(all 3 of them left) for the next few months for the tour and fielding a lot of questions. What, he's supposed to play mute now and not talk to get on Mike Love's good side? Weird thinking.  That train left the station and there's a lot of hard work and travel to do. That hard work involves dealing with the press. I imagine that white suit stinks of sweat and wheat germ... and lots of his wrinkles are from pretending to laugh at journalists making the same joke about dentists.

Don't worry, Mr Positivity will have his say and react all squinty-eyed soon to the Boise Picayune-Examiner or something. All full of joy and benevolence wishing Cousin Brian the best and then we can admire his big heart - truly as vast as the ocean. 

Ah, so Blondie is a REAL Beach Boy and Bruce is the 'coattail rider'? Now there's a well balanced view of things. :lol

This is sooooo tiring. Same old, same old. Remember when Al kissed Mike's ass in the 70s? Ah, those were the days. Everything was more harmonious then.

Yeah who would have thunk anyone could call 1977-79 Beach Boys pretty harmonious in comparison!

Not for the Wilsons, it wasn't.  There's always been strife in this band, one way or another.  They're just too old now to let it go anymore, for better or worse.

Actually the one guy in all this who always acts as a gent is David Marks. No backbiting from him and he stood to lose a lot more than Al with the C50 ending. Al needs to button it because the day will come when the BW wivesandmanagers machine decides he's served his purpose and jettisons him again.

I was being ironic...

Al's been with him for 40 years. He should know.

I think that might be right but I think David is a classy guy who wishes they all could get along. Which I bet they do get along better than we presume.

Ya like that, eh?  :)

 Bruce has more "credit" to call himself a Beach Boy. But at least Blondie won't want to play Kokomo and Barbra-fucking-Ann.  ;D Maybe we'll get lucky and hear/see a revival of Funky Pretty.  8)

Word.  :rock

That's a given no matter what. Seems no one stays in Brian's circle for too long a time. I am amazed that the majority of his band has stayed intact for as long as it has.

Al is certainly bitter, isn't he?

The 50th Anniversary Tour had a set end date; people need to get over it and move on. Don't want to see the Mike and Bruce show? Don't see it. Go see Brian, Al, and David (and possibly Blondie).

Good post!

Absolutely.  I don't know the full details of Al's relationship with Mike on the C50 tour or whether he was somehow led to believe that the C50 lineup would continue, so I can't say whether his bitterness is justified or not.  Still, he does not come off well when he refers to Mike that way, especially since Mike has avoided saying anything critical of Al since the end of the C50 tour as far as I can remember.

Mike's mentioning of neither Al or Dave is deafening. Complete cold shoulder. That might of pissed him off, as well. Like neither even existed on the tour. It was all Brian.

Really? Mike has mentioned all three of them when asked about the tour. On several occasions.

Haven't read everything, no time, but when things ended last year, I read Brian mentioning them, but really, not much from Mike. Even if he did mention both, it was nothing close to the amount of times that most interviews centered around Brian.

You think this is tough? You should try being a Bucks Fizz fan.

You're right that he didn't and doesn't mention them as much as Brian. But then he isn't asked about them as much as he is asked about Brian...

Yeah but some people won't get over it and that is okay too.  The fact that this new Brian Wilson album should've been the second Beach Boys album since the reunion is enough to make some fans myself included very angry.  It doesn't mean we won't support the band but we have a right to retain our anger if that is our predisposition. 

Al should let it go because he's the best one off of any of them. He can still sing pretty close to the way he was when he was young, or at least better than Brian and Mike. He participated in a recording with Bono. Did Brian and Mike do that? No. Brian already dumped Al once and he may again. Al should think about his future career as a solo act and forget about Mike and not put all his eggs in the Brian basket, either.

A different definition of bitter than I'm familiar with, I guess.

And I thought people had retired the set end date canard. Even AGD admits that Mike put the kibosh on the whole thing, and that the other parties wanted to continue. No end date is set that has already been extended once and had promoters clamoring for it to be extended again. The whole phrase is a rhetorical conceit meant to cut off dialogue.

Yeah, who needs The Beach Boys to have a future as a touring and recording act? I so prefer having disparate bands not making Beach Boys albums, not playing the massive gigs they were offered to further bolster the goodwill of a #3 album and a successful worldwide tour, in spite of the fact that it was a real possibility last year. This is fucking amazing.

Let's just all accept that Mike Love and Bruce Johnston should go around the world calling themselves "The Beach Boys"

Personally I don't find that easy to accept

I don't think they should be called "The Beach Boys" without Dennis.

I don't understand people who hate Mike and Bruce being disappointed that they went their separate way. Aren't you glad you don't have to hear them?  You also can't force people to get along. I think the license issue has been discussed into the ground. In any case, I'm not sure why anyone would want more "Spring Vacation" types songs that another BB album would inevitably bring.

I want to hear all of them! The issue isn't that I don't want to hear Mike, the issue is I want to hear Mike, Brian, Al, David, Bruce (and Blondie on certain dates). As do the public, cos they sent a Beach Boys album to #3. I don't want to hear two separate bands doing the same thing at a lesser level and not making records. I mean, Brian's making a Beach Boys album in all but name right now!


(obligatory 'Brian wrote the crap bits of Spring Vacation' disclaimer)

I was agreeing with you up until this.

The solution is clear: what those of us who want to see all of the surviving Beach Boys performing together again (and I count myself among those) need to do is see both groups and then find a brain surgeon who can combine our memories of the two shows together so that we remember them as a single show.

Naaaaah, see, it's been driven into the ground about 50 times already and it's real boring. This horse has been beaten to death over and over again. How long does it take to vent your frustration? It's funny how the same people lay low and become lurkers for awhile but invariably, as soon as the subject concerning the end of the C50 comes up, they  come out of the woodwork and put in their 10 cents. They can't resist the temptation! Like approaching it from one more angle might convince the Beach Boys or change anyone's mind. It's hilarious (and did I say boring?).   ;D

Post-o-the-week!

Not! I vote for the OSD "I kinda miss the old bastard".

I think the FINAL break-up of the band we are fanatics about and the subject of this board is fair game. After allk people are still rehashing Smile after 46 years. The C50 ended last year.  Keeps coming up in seemingly every Mike and Al interview......

This bothers you, yet you have defended Cam Mott, who pretty much exclusively only participates in discussions about either the death of SMiLE and Mike's role in it or Mike not being responsible for this last demise of The Beach Boys in 2012.

Cameron Mott thinks and speaks for himself - he doesn't need me or anyone else to defend him. Cam Mott's been around these boards since the days of the 56K dial-up modem and the inception of the Internet, and was a Beach Boys fan many, many years before that. I agree with much of the stuff he posts and disagree a little with other stuff. He's stubborn like a mule, and usually doesn't waver in his position on things Beach Boys (ask HeyJude). I respect him for his extensive research and knowledge of Smile and his vast knowledge of Mike Love's lawsuit procedings against Brian concerning Sea Of Tunes residuals. I don't have any issues with Cam as I don't with most of the people on this board. But I'm sure he'll be reading your disenchanting post about him and will respond accordingly. Or not.

So he's worth standing up for, but all these other people, they can't think for themselves, huh? Really. You know that for a fact. Smells like bullshit to me.

I never said that other people here can't think for themselves. So don't bother putting words in my mouth and turning and twisting things around to your liking. If you think it's bullshit, you're entitled to your opinion. Dudn't really matter to me one way or the other, Sourdudejim. I know that for a fact.  ;D

I did ? Damn, the short-term memory loss is worsening - care to remind me of where and when I said that, please ?

No, THIS is the post of the week!

David Marks may seem like the nicest guy - and I'm not disputing that he is - but, let's be fair, we didn't hear anything from or about him in over four decades. The others have all been granted lots more opportunity to make idiots of themselves in public....

i heard david used to smoke cigarettes and once called another man a "nitwit" durng a heated argument

Did I miss one? You are right that I'm not much into arguing with other people's musical tastes.

Somebody's gonna get a big smmmmooooch.

Haha! Good one

To tell you the truth, some of us actually have lives outside of this message board and can't be bothered checking in more than once or twice a week.  That is the long and the short of it with me anyhow.  I have my viewpoint am entitled to it and will continue to espouse it.  It has nothing to do with lurking or anything you insinuate, in fact quite the opposite as my life does not revolve around this band nor do I obsess about things over which I have no control.  Unhappy about it?  Yes I most certainly am that.  But beyond that?  I could care less honestly.

But.........the way I see it, you are indeed obsessing about things for which you have no control.  Right here on this very message board, concerning the end of the Beach Boys C50 tour. And I think you do care, otherwise you wouldn't keep espousing on it. ;D

And that's fine.  We're all of course entitled to our opinions and viewpoints here.  Carry on, chap!

See I don't see it that way.  To me obsessing would be equivalent to starting new threads on a regular basis about one particular topic.  Now have I in the past posted links to recent articles where one or more members of The Beach Boys speak about the end of the C50?  Indeed I have.  But that is one of the purposes of a message board, posting relevant news for other fans to read.

I've accepted the fact that the C50 lineup is probably never getting back together again for the exact same reasons AGD mentioned perhaps in this thread because there were just too many compromises necessary to facilitate the reunion the first time around.  Maybe money will eventually talk and change some minds but even that is doubtful.  As a fan right now I don't know where I am with this band.  I have most (if not all) of their catalog, will likely continue to buy archival releases in the future but can honestly also say that I'm not as high on them as I was prior to and during the C50.   The aftermath of the C50 really bummed me out to the point where I can honestly care less about what the individual band members are doing with their lives right now.  To me both M&B and BAD are poor man's versions of "The Beach Boys" and unless Brian Wilson releases a real stunner of a record next year I'll probably save my money to go and see someone else.

What I don't need at the moment (or quite frankly at any time) is some petty marionette constantly chiding and backbiting towards me for expressing how I feel.  The truth of it is, my prediction is at some point I'll just walk away from this message board entirely and that will be the end of my hardcore fandom regarding The Beach Boys.  No I won't be putting up my collection for sale at a yard sale anytime soon but a big part of who I was as a Beach Boys fan died with the end of the C50.  Maybe it's because for a band that is supposed to be all about family, proved at least in my eyes to be anything but. 

So while we all are entitled to our opinions and viewpoints it just seems to me that the whole fucking thing doesn't even matter anymore.  At the heart of things I guess what has happened is I got pissed off to the point of apathy.  I come back here every once and awhile mainly to check The Beatles thread or see what guitarfool has posted but beyond that the whole fucking thing to me is just sad.  I'd rather embrace and support bands that you know are still together.  Unfortunately the band that for a long time meant so much to me personally no longer qualifies in that regard.  So you maybe f*** it all should be my final word on the matter, at least I hope it is.

Good points John Mill, the C50 blowup still eats at me as well.

I honestly find some fan aspects of the BBs community to less than charming at times. I call for civility and respect on boards like SS.

People could look at it as getting 150% of a 50th Anniversary reunion and be extra grateful while hopeful for more at some point.

C50 for me was an Indian Summer, nothing more, nothing less. We'll always have all that great music from the past; unless the day comes when I become totally played out on that I'll remain a hardcore BB fan.

I share your sentiments. I probably wouldn't go see Brian this time if they hadn't added Jeff Beck. I've seen Brian with Al (and Ricky!) in '07 and I saw Blondie way back when he was a Beach Boy. And I saw Dave at the the C50 last year. It may have swayed me to go see those guys right there, but with Jeff Beck........I hope he lasts until the end of the tour and it doesn't fall apart before then. Brian looks bored shitless during the first gig and ain't talking to Beck much it seems, which is unfortunate. And Brian's back, from looking at the pictures, doesn't look 100%. My good friend is a huge Jeff Beck fan, so we'll go up to Oakland and check it out.


Nah, you don't wanna do that. We need more knowledgeable hardcore fans here like yourself, otherwise the board'll be boring.


Understand the feeling and agree except that it still does matter a lot. Some of us are real passionate; maybe TOO passionate. But we can't throw in the towel yet - I think these guys still not only have their independent shows to go see, I think there'll be more music coming down the pipeline. Just got a feelin'. Now wipe that tear off your cheek and go knock back a brewski or two!  ;D

Well put, Mikie! If I ever need to be talked down a ledge, I'll reread your post.

People are entitled to feel whatever they want about the Beach boys and the end of the reunion but to let the end of C50 so disillusion you to the Beach  boys as a family to give up on wanting to see the individual members or enjoy their music makes no sense.  This has ALWAYS been a dysfunctional family with members coming and going, suing each other, Brian going into hibernation for years at a time, family factions fighting physically and breaking into alliances of members against other members etc.  but it's ultimately not about the personalities but about the music.  There's been so many ups and downs with the group and with Brian but that's never affected my appreciation of the music.

It's kind of irrelevant, as Mike Love himself has implicitly if not directly indicated he was the one that didn't want to continue. Apart from one cryptic interview comment indicating Brian ended it, which makes no sense, all parties agree Mike put the kibosh. They certainly disagree on the reasons, fairness, ramifications, and importance of the decision, but not the fact that the decision was made. Thus, the "set end date" bit is BS on the order of "I burned all the Smile tapes" or "Carl mixed drink and prescriptions on the 1978 Australia tour."

Seconded!

Oh gosh, since everyone's spanking the dead horse... Again.... My turn.

1. Brian was the one that didn't want a reunion between 1996 and 2011. As much as i could rationalize that his solo albums would be better served with a wider pallete of voices and ideas, I don't remember bashing the guy for wanting to go solo. People should do what pleases them after a certain age.

2. If Brian had split after the pre-set C50 dates had ended, I doubt there would be 20% of all this whining. Well, there would be a lot of speculations about how he was mistreated by certain bandmates, making him lose his heart and wanting nothing to do with the Beach Boys ever again.

3. While a full scale reunion is probably not gonna happen again, I don't think they were faking it in the rooftop event or all through the C50 celebration. With the exception of Al vs Mike there isn't any great animosity between the survivors. Mike and Brian may very well enjoy each other's company in a Thanksgiving Day or something like that. But touring is HARD WORK, it's a JOB and it took lots of compromises by all parties involved. C50 was a success and a great way to close the saga. That it didn't last longer than scheduled is only a footnote.

One area where I think too much conflating is going on is on the issue of who ended the reunion. I for one would be criticizing anyone in the band who stopped it from continuing in the face of all the other members wanting to continue. If Brian had been the only holdout, I'd be criticizing him just as much. Truly. The reunion was too good for any of these guys to F it up.  That's why it's a tragedy within the context of their career.

Cryptic interview comment?

Here's the problem though, Mike didn't go "solo." He's not out there touring as Mike Love, and if he was, I'm sure he'd sell about one-twentieth of the tickets  he sells as "The Beach Boys."

Yeah, it's a BRI business arrangement that suits Mike, Brian and Carl's estate. Don't worry, the "Beach Boys" playing Sea World is not hurting the legacy.

----

COMMENT:

FELLOW FANS !!  YOU NEED TO CALM DOWN !!

BUT THE BEACH BOYS AREN'T CALM! THEY'RE BRINGING IN THE LAWYERS, AGAIN!

In a perfect world, they'd see the wisdom of opening a Beach Boys Theatre in Branson, MO. They could all live in a big house together and have a reality show on the Discovery Channel showing how they fight and make up behind the scenes. Brian could get to avoid travel and Mike could play his 100+ gigs a year. The rest of the schedule could be filled up with California Saga gigs. They could open a restaurant and theme park in the same area.

Then I ask you not to say he went solo then. Because he didn't. And I bet he would have been just fine to stick with the real Beach Boys if he wasn't allowed to tour with the name without them.

Actually, I imagine them renting a beach house in southern Cal, and struggling to pay the rent, taking any kind of gig they can get....oh wait, that was the Monkees!

Hmmm. Are we building this thing up to be bigger than Ben Hur maybe?

I said Brian went solo. He can, so he did. Mike and Al can't.

COMMENT:

The celebrities you have been posting about each have personal, unique, wide-ranging, and challenged, 24/7 lives. "The Beach Boys", or to them "The Beach Boys Corporation", is just one aspect of their complicated and sometimes convoluted daily thoughts.

Of course Bruce and Michael have gone on to a venue that pays the bills!  Michael has his share of expenses, and Bruce has kids in collage. I think one goes to Cambridge, England. Also both of them are business oriented. They are in control of The Beach Boys Corporation because of their business focal. So it’s no surprise that they would team up to promote the image of the "classic" The Beach Boys, and pay some bills.

When Brian’s brothers died, in a word, he realized his band was gone. Brian decided to act on his long-time desire to form another band of his own. He has his BB legacy, but continued to act on his talents in CD after CD. So it follows he ventured out on his own. He travels in one of those extreme class motor homes. Eats healthy.

Alan is alone in the mix today. If Carl and Dennis were alive, the band would have continued as The Beach Boys. But that’s not what happened. Al formed a new group and did some tours. That didn’t work out for Alan and would up in a court battle. Alan and Brian tried it out. That was short lived. He has done some albums but Alan in his interview speaks from a very different perspective – a perspective that should not be ignored.

~swd

Well, yes,  but stop being a voice of reason and experience, ok? :-\

Sure they can. Just because one of them has about eight unreleased albums that no record label wants to touch with a barge pole and the other one spent 20 odd years making an album of mostly remakes and covers doesn't mean they can't have productive and fulfilling solo........ oh wait........

Actually, it makes perfect sense, in the correct context.

Yep, the correct context was probably that the tour was tiring for Brian and that he wanted to chill. And then after a few months get back to working with The Beach Boys.

And Mike Love didn't wanna do that. He did what he was contractually obligated to do. And then he wanted to get back to his group. He chose not to work with the other guys.

Do I think the decision makes Mike look crass? Yeah. Fulfilling of his commerce over art view? Definitely. But whatever, it's his choice.

And I have to say that until Brian and Al put their money where there mouth is and force Mike to stop using the name, then they are complicent in the status quo. Personally I hope Mike isn't allowed to use the name anymore unless Brian, him and Al are all together. But we'll see. It's up to them.

Honestly, I can't understand how anyone can feel like that.

'I don't care what your wishes are Brian. If the other guys want to tour as The Beach Boys then you must continue against your will or be damned for all eternity!'

They are all human beings let's not forget.

So... you agree that it was Brian who said "no more", just as Mike stated back in the summer ?  In fact the context I was imagining was more wide-ranging than that.

My guess is that Brian said no more when they all agreed to extend the tour the first time. When Brian decided he wanted to add on, it was too late for Mike. He had already booked dates and restarted the M&B machine.

http://m.perthnow.com.au/business/lively-childs-play-turns-ugly-for-gina-rinehart/story-e6frg2r3-1226347648839

Don't lose too much sleep about Bruce's kids being destitute, Stephen! !

Did Ginia Rinehart ever marry Bruce's son?  Bruce talked about his son getting married during the reunion tour, but I read no further about it?

You left Al out.  :)

Honestly, we have to remember that Brian is 71, ML 72, it's got to be getting tough to do this.

If you nor Mike Love are willing to provide that context, then it's still BS. Sorry. I'm done with giving any weight to vague allusions or implications, especially regarding this reunion debacle. Despite a lot of the debate and discussion falling into the dead horse territory, including a lot of my repetitive discussion, I enjoy discussing this stuff. But I'm calling BS on any contentions that are vague to the point of not explaining, and that conveniently seem to support the opinions of the person who claims to have this information.

If Brian actually ended the tour, or if he "wanted to take some time off and then regroup", or anything along those lines, then some details regarding such are needed. Further, if this is at all what your or anybody else is implying, some sort of secret reason the reunion ended that has to do with Brian, then that makes the "set end date" excuse even MORE ridiculous.

I'm not buying that Brian told Mike he was done with the reunion, and then did that laughable back and forth letter writing with Mike to the LA Times. It makes no sense. They may have disagreed on terms for more reunion activities. In fact, Mike's comments about Brian saying no more shows was so off the wall that I do believe it is true in some form somehow. But if Brian is writing letters saying he wanted to continue and Mike didn't, then either it's not as simple as Brian wanting to quit, or Brian was attempting to perpetrate some intense reverse psychology.

Ultimately, I'm not seeing anything in the numerous interviews with Mike that indicates he's at all interested in reuniting the band again. If he were giving interviews lamenting how he wanted to continue, but Brian canceled, or they just couldn't come to agreeable terms, or if he expressed even once any sentiment about, for instance, wanting to play with Al Jardine and David Marks rather than just making some generic unrealistic request to write alone in a room with Brian, then maybe I'd lift some of the blame off of Mike.

I'd like a single piece of even anecdotal evidence to support this idea. I don't say this accusatorily. If this is indeed what went down, let's have somebody give us a piece of information that indicates this.

Bruce was already giddy about going back to the M&B show before the reunion tour even started, gleefully (a word Howie Edelson did use first, but which perfectly describes it) telling fans it wasn't going to be a permanent thing. Word broke of M&B shows abroad quite a ways before the end of the C50 tour.

I don't buy for a second that Mike was EVER even *considering* not going back to the M&B tour setup. The exact timeline was apparently fluid for a short period of time, but that seems to be about it.

I'd love for somebody to find out when the first post-reunion M&B show was booked. That would be an interesting (and yes, now largely useless) piece of information.

That's the thing, that's the reason if they were ever going to do more reunion stuff, now is the time. Mike's not slowing down if the 2013 tour schedule is any indication. These guys, especially Mike and Al (and David) could have a number of years left in them. But they're probably not going to be doing 100 gigs per years at 85 or 90.

Stating the painfully obvious, but It's pretty clear AGD is seeking out opportunities to leap to the defense of Mike Love and to criticize Al Jardine. That's fine, but I for one will weigh such comments accordingly. My opinion of he reunion debacle is clear, but I don't defend Al Jardine every time someone misquotes the size of his underwear or every time Mike makes a d**k comment in an interview. To single out this Al Jardine interview, in light of the years of what we've heard from Mike Love (and some of the others), just in published interviews, as bitter and petty, is laughably ridiculous.

I for one, as a Beach Boys fan, prefer a slightly crusty, curmudgeonly Al Jardine to the party line-towing model of the 70's or 80's.

Not much of any of the guys in this band have done a particularly consistently great job of portraying themselves or the band's legacy with a great amount of dignity.

Yeah, because Brian's wife and managers booting is Al is something to be celebrated?

David Marks is a gentlemen. He also has no corporate stake in anything to do with the Beach Boys, nor as many years invested into the machine.

Al has seemed to survive somehow without either the touring Beach Boys or Brian for the majority of 1998 to 2011, and it has actually seemed to give him better perspective and more willingness to be frank.

Are the people calling for Al to "button it" also calling on Mike to not make vague negative comments about "someone" in Brian's camp, implying they lacked "honor"? We're still not even sure who the hell Mike was talking about, nor whether Mike's opinion of that person was correct. But it certainly did nothing positive and only stoked flames as well, and didn't seem to show Mike ending the reunion with any dignity or grace.

Is the C50 over yet? Can I come out now? Anybody else want to continue on with their lives? Anybody?

Maybe I'll start a thread on politics or religion.  Abortion, gay rights, gun control, Obamacare?  I mean REAL debateable controversial issues. Ya wid me?

I agree. ML had no intentions of Brian, Al and David being in the band long term.  What I'm saying is that when they extended early on, Brian said no more after that. It sounded like a lot of shows and Brian's back was hurting.

But later on, Brian was having fund, back was better and the offers were still streaming in.  The album was a success. Brain and Al thought, let's keep this going, let's do another album. Mike said no.

You seem to have got the wrong end of the stick with my post. I think Al should "button it" because he isn't doing himself any favours in the long run. He's burning whatever bridges he and Mike may have mended during the C50 tour and has essentially pissed on his chips in regards to ever performing under the BB licence with Mike again (even if it was only a slim chance). When Brian's management is done with him he'll be out in the cold again.

No, and I don't believe I even so much as intimated that, so kindly don't upbraid me for something I've not said, or something that, for whatever bizarre reason,  you apparently want me to have said. My agreement was with MB's take on the current (and putative future) scenario, which is backed by past history.

You want dates  ? We goddem.

Rolling Stone 6/26/12 (http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/mike-love-books-beach-boys-shows-without-brian-wilson-20120626)

El Comercio 6/22/12 (http://elcomercio.pe/espectaculos/1431754/noticia-beach-boys-confirmaron-gira-america-sur)

Anyone else here thinks that as fans of the BB's music having the option of going to see two different touring outfits playing that wonderful music is potentially a double treat ? Something to be celebrated, not derided, perhaps ?

Been saying that for years, but seems there's a certain cadre of fans who demand what they imagine to be a strict diet of caviare, truffles and Dom Perignon.

For me it's more that fact that both bands playing together eclipses either show individually. Not that that would ever stop me from going to a show today  ;D

Definitely something to be appreciated and taken advantage of (while on limited offer and in your neighbourhood)

I'd love to see M&B (and the Gruffalo) at a non-stadium venue - and I hold nary a hope of BAD getting up in OZ.

So, for those who can - go to all or either; I'll bet you have a time of it.

In defence of Mike, there's one thing that a lot of people on here seem to forget. Mike's touring band is relatively stable. Mike tours constantly and consistenly, and being in his touring band/roadcrew is probably a pretty good gig for working musician/roadie.

When Mike joined in the C50 tour, he took a couple of members with him, but the others presumably were on hiatus for a while. I imagine the others didn't get paid a retainer, but were told that the C50 wouldn't last forever, there was a set end date, and after that the M&B band would resume touring. So, they were free/forced to find alternative employment in the meantime. They probably have families, mortgages, health care costs (it is America after all...).

As the end date approaches, if Mike was to suddenly extend the C50 tour, his sidemen who were not on the C50 tour would be out of work for longer, and probably a bit pissed off at Mike at the relatively short notice. They might not rejoin the touring band. They might get jobs elsewhere.

So, when it comes time for Mike to reassemble his well-versed and talented touring band, does he deal with some pissed off and broke employees? Does he hire several new sidemen? Or does Mike stick to his word, which was signed and legal and everyone was happy with (at the time)?

Knowing what we do of Mike's work ethic and that of his father, I would imagine that Mike had made promises to people he depends on, and he stuck to them. So for all the talk of Mike being the bad guy, refusing to extend the tour, "firing" Brian and Al and David, it really seems to me that Mike is a dependable man of his word.

The above scenario doesn't really apply to anyone else because most of Brian's band was on the C50 (and we know how he treats his sidemen (re: Bob and Jim)), and Al and Dave don't have regular bands. Mike is on the hook for being the bad guy in all of this, but he had the most to lose.

For us fans, we just want more C50 dates, and we don't give a sh*t about Mike's road manager, lighting manager, roadies and guitar techs, but it's his world and he does give a sh*t.

Think about it.

Wasn't Tim Bonhomme (M&B band keyboard player) tour manager on the C50 shows ? i.e. not short of gainful employment during that period...

True. So that just leaves Christian & Randell kicking their heels for the summer

And presumably the road crew…

Great post Loaf… I said something similar back in 2012 but didn't put it in such a kind way towards those members not retained for C50.

I think everyone here would love to see the C50 line-up reform but on that score we're thinking with our hearts, not our heads. If Loaf's right, Mike's siding with the Working Joe and deserves respect for that.  Maybe only one of his many considerations, but a key consideration.

One thing that should always be remembered - Mike was (literally) thrown out of a very comfortable family home when he was barely out of his teens, and then a few years later saw his family loose pretty much everything and move from said palatial home to a two-bedroom place by the airport. His urge to ensure his financial security is entirely understandable.

I've just posted in another thread but what seems to have happened is this.

Initial agreement with all parties for a C50 tour of about 50 dates. Early in the tour Mike more or less persuaded Brian to add a few more dates. Brian was having his back trouble at the time and agreed to those extra dates (including the two London dates) "and no more". This is recorded fact.

Meanwhile M+B were taking bookings for their band post-C50 to tour. These bookings were taken well before the C50 tour ended, some were announced in June 2012.

By the end of the tour Brian's back was good, he was having a whale of a time as was everybody. But the M+B dates were committed, and in all likelihood the last communicaton Mike had with Brian about it was "A few more dates AND NO MORE". Mike didn't see it as firing anyone, he was merely acting on an agreement already made.

It strikes me as a big misunderstanding.

Added to this, most of the M+B band were not included on the C50 tour. I would assume Mike feels loyalty to them. Perhaps they weren't even paid - as they weren't touring or playing.

It's all a shame because it does seem that in September 2012 everyone concerned wanted to either extend the tour or book another tour for 2013. There's little reason why the M+B tour couldn't have taken place over the winter and spring with the C50 lineup touring 12 months after the C50 tour ended. Venues wanted them, fans wanted them.

Still, that looks like more of a pipe dream than ever. I am glad that I was at Wembley, likely the last time The (surviving) Beach Boys all played together.

It's an interesting scenario, but I haven't seen any evidence so far that this is what happened, and it doesn't make sense to me. Even this scenario pre-supposes that there was any point at which Mike considered not continuing on with his M&B show, and I don't buy that that was ever the case.

If MIke had been on board for *even more* reunion shows at an earlier stage, but Brian only offered one extension and then no more, and then Mike was unable to continue the reunion at a later date only because he had already booked M&B shows, then he could have *easily* said so in any interview. This could have been easily explained without getting into any petty name calling or undignified whatnot. Mike has offered no such explanation. That isn't even getting into the question of whether Mike simply HAD to book M&B shows a mere few months after the reunion tour was due to end, rather than, say, waiting until the new year or something.

You make some good and likely valid points. As a fan I'm not too concerned with this. I don't assume playing with Brian is permanent, and I'm not super enthused about simply seeing the M&B live lineup with Al added and singing a few leads. More importantly, while all of these guys including Al can sometimes seem to do things without the proper foresight, I'm not convinced Al doesn't know the ramifications of what he's saying and doing. I don't think he's under any illusions about rejoining Mike and Bruce. I can't say he hasn't ruled it out, I don't know. But I wouldn't imagine he would assume that playing with Mike's band is a likely possibility. It also seems as though Al prefers playing with Brian the way things are now. That could indeed change at some point; I haven't heard any indication that Al is now a permanent part of Brian's band.

Al's biggest mistake is not pursuing something substantial solo. We know he can't get a lot of bookings. But he could be churning out pleasant album projects of various types, and maybe a few spotlight solo shows here and there where he doesn't have to play the "meat and potatoes" numbers. But that's another topic of course.

But are those the dates Mike's management booked M&B shows or pursued bookings, or simply the dates they were first publicized? I don't think we often, if ever, know the actual dates that management reaches out to promoters and venues to book shows. If we knew by June 22/26 that Mike had booked some M&B shows, then I would imagine the actual date that shows were first actively pursued is even earlier.

It seems certainly at least *possible* that Mike's management pursued M&B bookings for late summer/fall 2012 before the reunion tour even commenced, and/or very early on prior to any reunion tour extensions.

Again, this matters not other than to analyze Mike's motives as far as whether he ever even for a moment considered not booking M&B shows.

I've seen this argument bandied about since 1998. Sure, it sounds great. At this stage, I actually have gotten over the whole issue of Mike using the BB name, and splintered factions, and all of that.

No, the tragedy within the context of the band's history is SPECIFICALLY that the reunion tour was AMAZING. The total definition of all those cliches, that the whole is greater than the sum of its parts, etc.  All FIVE of these guys made that tour amazing. See Howie Edelson's pefect post outlining why the fact that it ended was a travesty. All of these guys (well, not Dave particularly) participated in some crappy, lackluster periods in the band's history over the years, both in the studio and on stage. But they got their s**t together in 2012, and as a fan and student of the band's history, they should have kept that together for the sake of their own legacy and their fans. They don't owe us anything obviously, but anyone that kept that reunion from continuing for any additional length is an idiot. In this case, it happens to be that it apparently is largely Mike who blocked it in this case. That's why I genuinely believe that I would feel the same way if Brian had stopped it.

The problem with this reasoning is that it presupposed that Mike, or any of the BB's, places the employment of these people as a top priority. Maybe they do sometimes, but we know that numerous backing band members (and one would presume other tour employees) have been uncermoniously sacked over the years.

As far as I'm concerned, none of these guys care about MY employment, so why should one or two guys backing Mike's tour take precendence over the most amazing Beach Boys touring lineup since the 70's?

Ultimately, I don't believe the employment status of Mike's touring band members or crew had anything to do with the lack of additional reunion shows. That's a good thing as far as I'm concerned, because as a fan I'd be more annoyed if employing Kirsche instead of Scott Bennett (as a random example of course) was the reason we didn't get more reunion gigs.

So the guys in Mike's touring operation are "Working Joes", but the guys in Brian's band and people in that touring crew (who in 2013 are playing far less gigs than then did in 2012 and would have likely played in 2013 had the reunion continued) aren't? Working Joes have nothing to do with this, because anybody that would be part of any configuration would be "Working Joes."

The dude has literally appeared in past years on the "Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous" TV show, and makes jokes in concert about driving a Bentley. Zero sympathy at this point, sorry. I doubt Mike would want anyone to feel sympathy for that plight either, or use it as a justification for anything. I understand you offer it as simply a possible explanation rather than justification (I hope), and in that sense it is not without possible merit. 

If Mike has financial reasons for ending the reunion, then he should either state that that is the case in interviews, or if he chooses not to (which is obviously his right), then speculation and assumptions, however right or wrong, will continue to the degree that anyone cares anymore.

Can someone point to the "recorded fact" that it was Mike who "convinced" Brian to add more C50 shows during the tour? I'm not assuming this isn't true, but I haven't seen this reported anywhere. I may have missed a report somewhere.

As to the rest of your scenario, I don't buy that the ONLY reason more reunion shows didn't happen was because "oops, we already booked some M&B shows, can't go back on that, sorry, bye!"

I see NO evidence that by September 2012 "everyone concerned" still wanted to do more reunion shows either in 2012 or 2013. By that stage, everything I've read makes it very clear that Mike was, under the current circumstances, no longer interested in continuing the reunion as of September 2012. No evidence I have seen suggests that Mike wanted to book more reunion shows in 2013 but a simple “misunderstanding” dictated that that could not happen.

Mike’s subsequent, more frank comments about how he had clearly soured on elements of the reunion project, would seem to support the idea that some incident or series of events or epiphanies during the reunion tour led Mike to the conclusion that he was done with the reunion under the present circumstances and conditions.

Didn't say he wasn't well off - he is. My point is, when that's happened to you once, you try to make sure it can never happen again, not matter how well-heeled you may be. Something like that leaves a deep scar.

That only one show was mentioned as being actually booked (and one booked then pulled when the promoter was found to be advertising it misleadingly) tells me that it had been arranged shortly before.


It's *possible* I'll win the lottery this weekend... it's *possible* that the band might reunite again next spring... saying something is *possible* is, in any context, essentially meaningless and, more often, intentionally spurious.


Of course he didn't. The C50 events were presented to all concerned as a one-off 50th anniversary event of finite duration. Mike cleared his schedule for four months in 2012 to participate (soon extended to six months) and then... nothing was set in stone after that. Maybe the whole thing would have gone tits-up after a few shows (a possibility that was discussed here), maybe there would be serious ructions... who was to know ? As it happens, Brian said "no more shows" and the issue became moot.

Very fair point, and I've not seen that stated anywhere else either. My rough understanding is that the reverse is likely the case.

As far as I am aware Mike and Brian have both said that it was Mike who suggested adding more dates and Brian somewhat reluctantly agreed.

I am open to being proved wrong.

I don't understand the problem... the whole point of my thread was presupposing that Mike places the welfare of his employees as a top priority. :)

I think my idea was that I disagree with the reasoning, that the idea that Mike places the welfare of his employees as a top priority is not something that I necessarily believe is true, and more importantly is not a valid reason for canceling more reunion activities.

I wonder just why we are still discussing this? I think Loaf and absinthe_boy offer the most plausible scenario, yet there are people who still need sole culprits for some reason.

nm

Brian will never play as many shows a year as Mike will. Wouldn't that be an issue, too, since Mike can make more money by playing more dates, which Brian will never do. The Beach Boys are also not the Eagles, capable of packing in 15,000 basketball arenas. So, there's more money to be made in many more dates in a year versus fewer dates at only slightly higher fees (and not always that, b/c the reunion tour played some venues as small as the Mike configuration). Plus higher expenses due to Brian's band and possibly his tour bus (though perhaps Brian paid for that part out of his own pocket). Not to mention Mike is used to working that much. Maybe the idea of hanging around his house for those extra days when he's not gigging is a deterrent for him to want to play less dates in a year. It's as much of a lifestyle conflict as a financial or ego conflict.

I guess some people don't care about the feelings of the BBs just their fantasies regardless of the BBs' feelings. Too harsh?

If what Mike said was true it seems it was someone besides Brian if Brian put his foot down that there would be no more after the extension. Maybe not.

Because it's something of a mystery... because it's what we do.

Especially if you have dyslexia.  ;D

 :lol

yes Ed, caught that.  The 70's and the 80's was a lot like TV, Drama in the studio, and for sure a sit-com live.