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Smiley Smile Stuff => General On Topic Discussions => Topic started by: Jeff on September 04, 2013, 01:20:42 PM



Title: I Believe in Miracles and Can't Wait Too Long
Post by: Jeff on September 04, 2013, 01:20:42 PM
So what's the story behind I Believe in Miracles?  We know that it was recorded during Smiley Smile, but more than one boot has it connected, literally, to Can't Wait Too Long, which was thought to have been started during Wild Honey.  The best clip I've heard is a 35 second track labeled "Can't Wait Too Long (fragment)" from Alternate Dumb Angel 1.  It includes I Believe in Miracles along with other CWTL-ish session material.

It could be a splice job I suppose, but it may well be that CWTL originated from the Smiley sessions.

Thoughts?


Title: Re: I Believe in Miracles and Can't Wait Too Long
Post by: seltaeb1012002 on September 04, 2013, 02:16:58 PM
I'd love to know more about that section, and the section after it on ADA1.

Speaking of that 2nd section after "I Believe In Miracles".. there's something up with the vocals. It definitely doesn't sound like a '67 - '68 group sound. Even when sped up.

I have a theory. Could the vocals be from around '79 - '80??  I know AGD said the only later work done on the song were some string overdubs recorded in 1980. But for the life of me, I can't place what era these vocals come from! And I definitely remember hearing that it was being considered for the LA Light Album (don't quote me).


Title: Re: I Believe in Miracles and Can't Wait Too Long
Post by: Jason on September 04, 2013, 02:20:02 PM
That version of Can't Wait Too Long with the I Believe in Miracles intro was from Mark Linett's 1988 compilation tape of Smile material. Also, Can't Wait Too Long was being considered for Keepin' the Summer Alive. However, Do You Like Worms was allegedly considered for LA.


Title: Re: I Believe in Miracles and Can't Wait Too Long
Post by: seltaeb1012002 on September 04, 2013, 02:28:29 PM
That version of Can't Wait Too Long with the I Believe in Miracles intro was from Mark Linett's 1988 compilation tape of Smile material. Also, Can't Wait Too Long was being considered for Keepin' the Summer Alive. However, Do You Like Worms was allegedly considered for LA.

Ahh, yes. Thanks for the correction. Wasn't sure if it was KTSA or LA.

Any thoughts on that vocal part? I keep playing it at different speeds, but none of it makes sense. I mean, it really sounds like Brian on top of the stack, slowed down... but when you speed it up it doesn't fly. Only other thing I can think of is that it's gotta be from the late 70's or 1980.

The truth is out there.


Title: Re: I Believe in Miracles and Can't Wait Too Long
Post by: Jason on September 04, 2013, 02:32:59 PM
Well, let's remember the fact that Can't Wait Too Long had vocal overdubs done at several points. Some were done during the Wild Honey sessions and some were done in mid-'68 after Friends had wrapped. I think the vocals in the part you reference are from mid-'68.

For the record, the Archaeology bootleg has a few assemblies of Can't Wait Too Long as well, the third of which contains this same segment in higher fidelity.


Title: Re: I Believe in Miracles and Can't Wait Too Long
Post by: seltaeb1012002 on September 04, 2013, 02:44:30 PM
Well, let's remember the fact that Can't Wait Too Long had vocal overdubs done at several points. Some were done during the Wild Honey sessions and some were done in mid-'68 after Friends had wrapped. I think the vocals in the part you reference are from mid-'68.

Man, maybe you're right. He just sounds very un-Brian like, especially in the first half. But you can hear "the whine" poke through on the 2nd half. Very strange, and intriguing.


Title: Re: I Believe in Miracles and Can't Wait Too Long
Post by: Jason on September 04, 2013, 02:50:44 PM
The whine is definitely there, which is why I'm inclined to put that vocal overdub in July of '68. The sessions on SOT 19 from late 1967 at Wally Heider and Brian's home don't have those vocal overdubs at all, but just for the part with the funky guitars and the other part with the fuzz bass and vibes. Granted, the July '68 sessions only circulate in piecemeal - those Archaeology assemblies, a lone outtake that for some reason ended up on SOT 17 (disc 1, track 12), and a vocal fragment from Get the Boot - so we might not have the whole picture. Maybe Desper might know if he's hanging around the board at all lately.

EDIT - based on AGD's sessionography, there were three sessions for Can't Wait Too Long in 1968 - two on July 25 and one on the 26th. Both at the home studio.


Title:
Post by: zachrwolfe on September 04, 2013, 02:53:17 PM


Title: Re: I Believe in Miracles and Can't Wait Too Long
Post by: seltaeb1012002 on September 04, 2013, 02:56:29 PM
Are you guys talking about the highest part, kinda feminine sounding, that goes C#-E-Ab-Bb? That sounds more like a sped up Brian to me than a slowed down Brian to me.

I'm talking about the section after that in the sequence that's been booted a few times. Kickass section.. but the vocals sound a little strange.

Another thought TRBB.. I still have a hard time believing its Brian singing "Why Do Fools Fall In Love". He sounds pretty different there to my ears. So it could be a similar thing going on.

But what a cool track. I remember that "new" a capella section that popped up on Get The Boot. There's gotta be more in the vaults we haven't heard.

Can't Wait Too Long is the new SMiLE.


Title:
Post by: zachrwolfe on September 04, 2013, 02:59:15 PM


Title: Re: I Believe in Miracles and Can't Wait Too Long
Post by: Jason on September 04, 2013, 03:02:24 PM
To be honest, I think what we might be singling out as "Brian or not Brian" is just that insanely awesome blend. The sum is more than the parts. You can definitely hear it on Why Do Fools Fall In Love. Although, let's not discount the fact that Brian was capable of some ridiculously awesome notes in 1964. However, he couldn't even get Don't Worry Baby 100% right a few months later on the live version on the Concert!/Live in London two-fer. Just a matter of take after take until he was satisfied. Michael didn't call him "dog ears" for nothing.


Title: Re: I Believe in Miracles and Can't Wait Too Long
Post by: seltaeb1012002 on September 04, 2013, 03:10:50 PM
Here's another theory.. maybe its Dennis doing the high part. He was capable of the whine in that era. I kinda wish they had taken advantage of his falsetto when Brian started to pull back.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=TTY9BRCg-Ec#t=282 (4:45)


Title: Re: I Believe in Miracles and Can't Wait Too Long
Post by: Jason on September 04, 2013, 03:18:51 PM
It could very well be Dennis, possibly even Carl or Al, too.


Title:
Post by: zachrwolfe on September 04, 2013, 03:28:55 PM


Title: Re: I Believe in Miracles and Can't Wait Too Long
Post by: Jeff on September 04, 2013, 04:14:05 PM
At any rate, the compilers' decision to include nothing else in the 'Miracles' track seems to indicate that the other booted CWTL material originated no earlier than late '67.  Presumably it also means that 'Miracles' is at most a forerunner of CWTL, and may have no real connection at all.


Title: Re: I Believe in Miracles and Can't Wait Too Long
Post by: Jason on September 04, 2013, 04:27:13 PM
I think it's just a fragment from the Smiley Smile sessions. Nothing less or more. One of those little sound bytes of greatness.

Can't Wait Too Long is a different animal.


Title: Re: I Believe in Miracles and Can't Wait Too Long
Post by: alf wiedersehen on September 04, 2013, 09:35:17 PM
Here's another theory.. maybe its Dennis doing the high part. He was capable of the whine in that era. I kinda wish they had taken advantage of his falsetto when Brian started to pull back.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=TTY9BRCg-Ec#t=282 (4:45)
I saw that a while back and was taken aback at how Brian-like his high note was.

Wow, Carl better at mock-drumming than Dennis was.


Title: Re: I Believe in Miracles and Can't Wait Too Long
Post by: Jay on September 04, 2013, 09:56:48 PM
Over the last few days I've seen posts talking about a connection between I Believe In Miracles and Can't Wait To Long, but for the life of me I can't hear it. To me, I Believe In Miracles sounds more like a rejected/reworked Child Is Father Of The Man fragment.


Title: Re: I Believe in Miracles and Can't Wait Too Long
Post by: runnersdialzero on September 04, 2013, 11:02:39 PM
Over the last few days I've seen posts talking about a connection between I Believe In Miracles and Can't Wait To Long, but for the life of me I can't hear it. To me, I Believe In Miracles sounds more like a rejected/reworked Child Is Father Of The Man fragment.

Listen to the bootlegged version and you'll hear the connection.

Also, blend sounds right to me on the booted version after the intro, I don't hear much weirdness. Dennis is a LOT louder than he normally is on other mixes, which may be what's throwing off. I think it's all '67, I have to imagine the later overdubs were on one of the Wild Honey versions, presumably the more "classic" sounding take and not the take that sounds more obviously Wild Honey-era. No idea why they'd put overdubs on an early Smiley Smile version which I doubt is much longer than what we have.

The "feminine" falsetto vocal, if not Brian, sounds a lot like Carl. Hard to say.

Any idea why just the intro vocal was released here? Why not all that exists of the song? Strange move, to me.


Title: Re: I Believe in Miracles and Can't Wait Too Long
Post by: Jay on September 04, 2013, 11:10:57 PM
I've never heard that "second section" mentioned in this thread. At least not that I know of. Other than the GV box and the Smiley Smile/Wild Honey twofer, the only other fragment I've heard is from Get The Boot. I wish I could find a way to hear it.  :police:


Title: Re: I Believe in Miracles and Can't Wait Too Long
Post by: runnersdialzero on September 04, 2013, 11:48:45 PM
I've never heard that "second section" mentioned in this thread. At least not that I know of. Other than the GV box and the Smiley Smile/Wild Honey twofer, the only other fragment I've heard is from Get The Boot. I wish I could find a way to hear it.  :police:

It's on the old Odeon Smile bootleg. You could probably easily find it online as long as you fuckin' PROMISE you'll buy seventeen copies of the Smile Sessions box as compensation for the horrific crime of existing on the same planet as bootlegged material.


Title: Re: I Believe in Miracles and Can't Wait Too Long
Post by: Amazing Larry on September 05, 2013, 01:26:14 AM
Also, get the Archaeology boot and hear vocal overdubs that you can't hear anywhere else.


Title: Re: I Believe in Miracles and Can't Wait Too Long
Post by: buddhahat on September 05, 2013, 01:45:19 AM
Wow it's the first I've heard that I Believe In Miracles is from the Smiley sessions. I always heard it was from WH. Does that info come from the MIC book or what? So all of us convinced it was Smile era for so long were not too far off.

The second section that I know of is beautiful and also sounds really smile. It has similar backing as the Wild Honey era 'Been Way Too Long Baby' part but starts with handclaps then has a wordless vocal in place of the lyrics. There's a 37 second edit on odeon that features Miracles and this section edited together. I also have a longer 1.50 edit (now mislabelled so not sure what boot it's from, maybe secret smile?) that has these two sections followed by the more familiar 'Been Way Too Long Baby' part, then Brian singing 'Baby you know that I can't wait forever'. This fourth part sounds more crudely edited into the sequence than the preceding bits. I assume parts 2, 3 and 4 all come from the WH sessions. I wonder who made this edit with miracles as the intro or of it is a BW vintage edit. The Miracles intro certainly fits with the other parts. I wish Alan Boyd or somebody could shed some light on this.

Where does the Miracles name come from? Was that a tape box label, or from session chatter I wonder?


Title: Re: I Believe in Miracles and Can't Wait Too Long
Post by: Ebb and Flow on September 05, 2013, 02:14:51 AM
The high, female sounding harmony vocals on this track are Diane and Marilyn, right?  If so, that does play with the Smiley Smile chronology, since they also sang on "Wonderful".


Title: Re: I Believe in Miracles and Can't Wait Too Long
Post by: Jay on September 05, 2013, 02:30:11 AM
Alright, after listening to the fragments to the point of near insanity, I have concluded that....I have no fuckin' idea.  ;D My best guess is that the "whine" is Brian, but *possibly* coming from a different time period that the track itself. The lower "uuuuugh" voice on top of the blend is most likely Dennis. Now, the syncopated "baby you know I've been waiting forever" heard way in the background has an odd voice. It sounds like mid 70's Brian, or possibly Carl.

But then again, I may just be misunderstanding this whole thread, and going about it all wrong.  :lol


Title: Re: I Believe in Miracles and Can't Wait Too Long
Post by: Amazing Larry on September 05, 2013, 02:37:26 AM
Alright, after listening to the fragments to the point of near insanity, I have concluded that....I have no fuckin' idea.  ;D My best guess is that the "whine" is Brian, but *possibly* coming from a different time period that the track itself. The lower "uuuuugh" voice on top of the blend is most likely Dennis. Now, the syncopated "baby you know I've been waiting forever" heard way in the background has an odd voice. It sounds like mid 70's Brian, or possibly Carl.

But then again, I may just be misunderstanding this whole thread, and going about it all wrong.  :lol
Maybe those "baby you know I've been waiting forever" bits were 1980 overdubs and these are rough mixes from then.


Title: Re: I Believe in Miracles and Can't Wait Too Long
Post by: Jay on September 05, 2013, 02:45:28 AM
My thoughts exactly, but AGD will probably come by here and prove us wrong.  ;D


Title: Re: I Believe in Miracles and Can't Wait Too Long
Post by: buddhahat on September 05, 2013, 02:50:55 AM
Alright, after listening to the fragments to the point of near insanity, I have concluded that....I have no fuckin' idea.  ;D My best guess is that the "whine" is Brian, but *possibly* coming from a different time period that the track itself. The lower "uuuuugh" voice on top of the blend is most likely Dennis. Now, the syncopated "baby you know I've been waiting forever" heard way in the background has an odd voice. It sounds like mid 70's Brian, or possibly Carl.

But then again, I may just be misunderstanding this whole thread, and going about it all wrong.  :lol
Maybe those "baby you know I've been waiting forever" bits were 1980 overdubs and these are rough mixes from then.

But those vocal parts are on unsurpassed masters vol 19 as wild honey outtakes. Sounds like Brian's wild honey voice to me (cf here come the night). I seriously doubt they're 1980 overdubs unless you're listening to a mix I don't have.


Title: Re: I Believe in Miracles and Can't Wait Too Long
Post by: Jeff on September 05, 2013, 01:18:31 PM
Over the last few days I've seen posts talking about a connection between I Believe In Miracles and Can't Wait To Long, but for the life of me I can't hear it. To me, I Believe In Miracles sounds more like a rejected/reworked Child Is Father Of The Man fragment.

Listen to the bootlegged version and you'll hear the connection.

Also, blend sounds right to me on the booted version after the intro, I don't hear much weirdness. Dennis is a LOT louder than he normally is on other mixes, which may be what's throwing off. I think it's all '67, I have to imagine the later overdubs were on one of the Wild Honey versions, presumably the more "classic" sounding take and not the take that sounds more obviously Wild Honey-era. No idea why they'd put overdubs on an early Smiley Smile version which I doubt is much longer than what we have.

The "feminine" falsetto vocal, if not Brian, sounds a lot like Carl. Hard to say.

Any idea why just the intro vocal was released here? Why not all that exists of the song? Strange move, to me.

I woud imagine that the "intro" is all that exists of that particular song.  That's assuming that 'Miracles' and the subsequent handclapping bit are two different works.


Title: Re: I Believe in Miracles and Can't Wait Too Long
Post by: Jason on September 05, 2013, 01:37:11 PM
What was released as I Believe In Miracles is all that exists of I Believe In Miracles. The part with the handclapping is part of Can't Wait Too Long.


Title: Re: I Believe in Miracles and Can't Wait Too Long
Post by: runnersdialzero on September 05, 2013, 05:39:17 PM
What was released as I Believe In Miracles is all that exists of I Believe In Miracles. The part with the handclapping is part of Can't Wait Too Long.

wat? They're clearly both part of the same recording and meant to go together, assuming we're both talking about the same version.


Title: Re: I Believe in Miracles and Can't Wait Too Long
Post by: runnersdialzero on September 05, 2013, 05:40:43 PM
The high, female sounding harmony vocals on this track are Diane and Marilyn, right?  If so, that does play with the Smiley Smile chronology, since they also sang on "Wonderful".

Doesn't sound like an actual female to me at all. Either Brian or Carl, I'd bet.


Title: Re: I Believe in Miracles and Can't Wait Too Long
Post by: Jeff on September 05, 2013, 06:57:52 PM
What was released as I Believe In Miracles is all that exists of I Believe In Miracles. The part with the handclapping is part of Can't Wait Too Long.

wat? They're clearly both part of the same recording and meant to go together, assuming we're both talking about the same version.

Clearly?  Not to my ears.  And, more importantly, not to the ears of the compilers.


Title: Re: I Believe in Miracles and Can't Wait Too Long
Post by: Jason on September 05, 2013, 07:21:52 PM
What was released as I Believe In Miracles is all that exists of I Believe In Miracles. The part with the handclapping is part of Can't Wait Too Long.

wat? They're clearly both part of the same recording and meant to go together, assuming we're both talking about the same version.

The version of Can't Wait Too Long from the Odeon Smile bootleg (also the 1988 Linett tape) goes as follows.

0:00-0:14 - I Believe In Miracles
0:14-0:35 - Same as 0:00-0:21 on Archaeology disc 5, track 7.
0:35-0:58 - Same as 2:05-2:50 on Good Vibrations box set disc 3, track 5, but shorter.
0:58-1:46 - Same as 2:50-3:51 on Good Vibrations box set disc 3, track 5, but shorter.

I Believe in Miracles is not part of Can't Wait Too Long. The first two entries above are clearly not part of the same recording, but rather an edit by an engineer who occasionally posts here. Why was it done that way? Ask him in his thread. :)


Title: Re: I Believe in Miracles and Can't Wait Too Long
Post by: Amazing Larry on September 05, 2013, 07:54:26 PM
Is that the Chamberlin I hear in the hand-clapping bits?


Title: Re: I Believe in Miracles and Can't Wait Too Long
Post by: runnersdialzero on September 05, 2013, 09:02:37 PM
Thanks for making me look like a dipshit late 1980s "Marky Mark" Linett :'(


Title: Re: I Believe in Miracles and Can't Wait Too Long
Post by: Jay on September 05, 2013, 11:19:00 PM
You do a good enough job of that on your own.


Title: Re: I Believe in Miracles and Can't Wait Too Long
Post by: runnersdialzero on September 05, 2013, 11:30:48 PM
You do a good enough job of that on your own.

>: (


Title: Re: I Believe in Miracles and Can't Wait Too Long
Post by: ♩♬🐸 Billy C ♯♫♩🐇 on September 05, 2013, 11:34:09 PM
(http://www.prowebsurfer.com/public/toolbar/content/images/0/0/0/3/2/0003231/1784/Why%20can%27t%20we%20be%20friends.jpg)


Title: Re: I Believe in Miracles and Can't Wait Too Long
Post by: buddhahat on September 06, 2013, 01:18:53 AM
What was released as I Believe In Miracles is all that exists of I Believe In Miracles. The part with the handclapping is part of Can't Wait Too Long.

wat? They're clearly both part of the same recording and meant to go together, assuming we're both talking about the same version.

The version of Can't Wait Too Long from the Odeon Smile bootleg (also the 1988 Linett tape) goes as follows.

0:00-0:14 - I Believe In Miracles
0:14-0:35 - Same as 0:00-0:21 on Archaeology disc 5, track 7.
0:35-0:58 - Same as 2:05-2:50 on Good Vibrations box set disc 3, track 5, but shorter.
0:58-1:46 - Same as 2:50-3:51 on Good Vibrations box set disc 3, track 5, but shorter.

I Believe in Miracles is not part of Can't Wait Too Long. The first two entries above are clearly not part of the same recording, but rather an edit by an engineer who occasionally posts here. Why was it done that way? Ask him in his thread. :)

Do you know that Linett definitely edited those two pieces together for the 88 tape and that he wasn't just presenting an existing edit from the vaults? Or, if he did, are you certain that he wasn't making the edit based on some evidence that Miracles belonged with CWTL?

Miracles certainly sounds good as an into to Been Too Long and shares some rhythmic similarity to my ears. However I can accept that Linett may have put them together for no other reason that they sound good together. Would be good to have him clear this up.

If it doesn't belong to CWTL then you have wonder what it was designed for. It could be a totally unique standalone song that never progressed beyond this vocal but it could just as likely have been an insert or bridge or intro to a smiley song.

Can someone confirm where the smiley info comes from? Is this from the MIC tracklist?


Title: Re: I Believe in Miracles and Can't Wait Too Long
Post by: buddhahat on September 06, 2013, 03:50:18 AM
Only just noticed this (I think maybe what Runnersdialzero already hinted at) , but Miracles does share a strong similarity to CWTL in the backing vocals. The recurring Dum, doo, doo, doo, doo, doo backing part is nearly identical to the four note backing part (guitar or keyboard maybe?) heard behind the hand clapping section of CWTL. And the keys are the same, right? This is why the two pieces mesh so well and quite possibly Miracles is a precursor of, or variation on the Been Way Too Long section that follows it in the 88 edit. So my guess is this similarity is why Linett put the pieces together.


Title: Re: I Believe in Miracles and Can't Wait Too Long
Post by: Jay on September 06, 2013, 06:51:17 AM
I still hear more of a resemblance to CIFOTM.


Title: Re: I Believe in Miracles and Can't Wait Too Long
Post by: Jeff on September 06, 2013, 09:16:45 AM
I still hear more of a resemblance to CIFOTM.

Easy my child, it's just enough to believe
(I believe, I believe, I believe)
Out of the wild into what you can't conceive...


Title: Re: I Believe in Miracles and Can't Wait Too Long
Post by: Ebb and Flow on September 06, 2013, 12:26:18 PM
I still hear more of a resemblance to CIFOTM.

Easy my child, it's just enough to believe
(I believe, I believe, I believe)
Out of the wild into what you can't conceive...

https://soundcloud.com/smileyhoneyfriends-1/cifotm-i-believe-in-miracles


Title: Re: I Believe in Miracles and Can't Wait Too Long
Post by: sockittome on September 06, 2013, 05:18:26 PM
I still hear more of a resemblance to CIFOTM.

Easy my child, it's just enough to believe
(I believe, I believe, I believe)
Out of the wild into what you can't conceive...

https://soundcloud.com/smileyhoneyfriends-1/cifotm-i-believe-in-miracles

Not hearing it.  Chords are different.


Title: Re: I Believe in Miracles and Can't Wait Too Long
Post by: The Shift on September 07, 2013, 04:50:14 AM
I still hear more of a resemblance to CIFOTM.

Easy my child, it's just enough to believe
(I believe, I believe, I believe)
Out of the wild into what you can't conceive...

https://soundcloud.com/smileyhoneyfriends-1/cifotm-i-believe-in-miracles

Not hearing it.  Chords are different.

Same here.

Any resemblance of anything new to our ears on MiC to anything Smile is primarily tht of Barnyard Blues' intro to BWPS04's link between Wonderful and CITFOTM. Just a suggestion… haven't A-B'ed.



Title: Re: I Believe in Miracles and Can't Wait Too Long
Post by: mrralan on October 08, 2013, 06:10:03 PM
Wow, I came here to ask about this track and the second part on the boot and I find someone already asked the same question! 

0:00-0:14 - I Believe In Miracles
0:14-0:35 - Same as 0:00-0:21 on Archaeology disc 5, track 7.

So...is the concensus that the 0:14-0:35 section is part of CWTL? 


Title: Re: I Believe in Miracles and Can't Wait Too Long
Post by: bossaroo on October 08, 2013, 07:30:28 PM
I still hear more of a resemblance to CIFOTM.

Easy my child, it's just enough to believe
(I believe, I believe, I believe)
Out of the wild into what you can't conceive...

https://soundcloud.com/smileyhoneyfriends-1/cifotm-i-believe-in-miracles

i missed this til just now. love it!!!


Title: Re: I Believe in Miracles and Can't Wait Too Long
Post by: Jay on October 08, 2013, 10:40:01 PM
There is one thing that nobody has made mention of yet, and it's something that I think is crucial to solving the mystery of whether or not I Believe In Miracles is part of  Can't Wait/Been Way To Long. On the released version of IBIM, there is a few seconds of organ at the very end, which I don't think is on the booted version(or at least not that I can hear). What the heck is that weird organ part doing in there? Is it an indication that IBIM is meant to be something totally different from BWTL? Those few notes don't seem to go along musically with BWTL.


Title: Re: I Believe in Miracles and Can't Wait Too Long
Post by: Nile on October 09, 2013, 01:11:01 AM
I still hear more of a resemblance to CIFOTM.

Easy my child, it's just enough to believe
(I believe, I believe, I believe)
Out of the wild into what you can't conceive...

https://soundcloud.com/smileyhoneyfriends-1/cifotm-i-believe-in-miracles

Unbeliveble!
It makes sense to me!
Puts Child.. in different perspective!
Tnx for this piece of work


Title: Re: I Believe in Miracles and Can't Wait Too Long
Post by: The Shift on October 09, 2013, 02:03:45 AM
I've listened to this a few times and while there are great similarities I don't think this match-up quite works.  However, that doesn't rule out the idea that they could be related – extracts from different sections of the same tune. Or suite*.



* I hereby refute all responsibility for the ensuing debate/argument/fight that use of the word "suite" may provoke.


Title: Re: I Believe in Miracles and Can't Wait Too Long
Post by: bossaroo on October 09, 2013, 07:20:35 AM
I think Miracles could very well be part of Child now. The chords seem to be different, but Miracles could just be adding different voicings. They're certainly in the same key and the tempos are exactly the same. And they sound amazing together!

thanks again, Ebb and Flow!


Title: Re: I Believe in Miracles and Can't Wait Too Long
Post by: Jesse Reiswig on October 09, 2013, 08:48:03 AM
I still hear more of a resemblance to CIFOTM.

Easy my child, it's just enough to believe
(I believe, I believe, I believe)
Out of the wild into what you can't conceive...

https://soundcloud.com/smileyhoneyfriends-1/cifotm-i-believe-in-miracles

Unbeliveble!
It makes sense to me!
Puts Child.. in different perspective!
Tnx for this piece of work

Agreed. This is wonderful, Ebb and Flow.


Title: Re: I Believe in Miracles and Can't Wait Too Long
Post by: Jay on October 09, 2013, 09:50:33 PM
Just for the record, I called it.  8)


Title: Re: I Believe in Miracles and Can't Wait Too Long
Post by: bossaroo on October 11, 2013, 12:01:15 PM
thanks DM!


Title: Re: I Believe in Miracles and Can't Wait Too Long
Post by: Natural E on October 11, 2013, 12:59:46 PM
For those who may be interested, a couple of CWTL edits I've done myself:

A representative sampling of certain parts of CWTL:

https://soundcloud.com/natural-e-tunes/cant-wait-too-long-custom-edit

CWTL from MiC followed by remaining parts of the Linnet edit, with the guitar part which sounds to me like a GV sessions outtake:

https://soundcloud.com/natural-e-tunes/cant-wait-too-long-i-believe

Don't Break My Heart vocal snippet + I Believe In Miracles:

https://soundcloud.com/natural-e-tunes/dont-break-my-heart-i-believe


Title: Re: I Believe in Miracles and Can't Wait Too Long
Post by: superunison on November 08, 2018, 12:35:15 PM
Been rebuilding my BBs mix from the ground up since losing a hard drive and am once again obsessed with this Can't Wait Too Long snippet described in this thread.  However, the Archaeology track that I've found cuts out for a fraction of a second at 0:11.... Does anyone else have a copy without the glitch?  I can't remember if the cut out was always there when I've listened to the track in the past....The Linnet version on Secret Smile has no bass at all, so I'd love to find a glitchless copy of the Archaeology version!


Title: Re: I Believe in Miracles and Can't Wait Too Long
Post by: Alex on November 08, 2018, 03:55:55 PM
I'm coming into this a few years late, but not knowing anything about the track, I'd just assumed "Miracles" was an excerpt of a rehearsal of "Little Bird".


Title: Re: I Believe in Miracles and Can't Wait Too Long
Post by: superunison on November 08, 2018, 04:35:36 PM
I'm coming into this a few years late, but not knowing anything about the track, I'd just assumed "Miracles" was an excerpt of a rehearsal of "Little Bird".

Miracles dates from the Smiley Smile sessions. Not hearing the Little Bird connection...


Title: Re: I Believe in Miracles and Can't Wait Too Long
Post by: Ebb and Flow on November 08, 2018, 05:08:13 PM
I'm coming into this a few years late, but not knowing anything about the track, I'd just assumed "Miracles" was an excerpt of a rehearsal of "Little Bird".

Miracles dates from the Smiley Smile sessions. Not hearing the Little Bird connection...

The underlying chords in the chorus of CIFOTM morphed into parts of Can't Wait Too Long (which Miracles seems to be a section of) and later "Little Bird" (the ending of which is a more direct rework of CIFOTM).  Even the fade of Surf's Up is an intentional reprisal of the chorus to CIFOTM, made even clearer by the 1971 vocal additions.  It's all over Brian's stuff from this period.


Title: Re: I Believe in Miracles and Can't Wait Too Long
Post by: superunison on November 08, 2018, 06:18:07 PM
I'm coming into this a few years late, but not knowing anything about the track, I'd just assumed "Miracles" was an excerpt of a rehearsal of "Little Bird".

Miracles dates from the Smiley Smile sessions. Not hearing the Little Bird connection...

The underlying chords in the chorus of CIFOTM morphed into parts of Can't Wait Too Long (which Miracles seems to be a section of) and later "Little Bird" (the ending of which is a more direct rework of CIFOTM).  Even the fade of Surf's Up is an intentional reprisal of the chorus to CIFOTM, made even clearer by the 1971 vocal additions.  It's all over Brian's stuff from this period.

You did a great just lining up the tempo on your soundcloud link, but those are clearly not the same chords in Miracles and CITFOTM, I don't really understand how anyone earlier in the thread agreed.... Brian used that swing rhythm/feel a lot in this period clearly in the CIFOTM call backs you mentioned, however, the first chord in Miracles is C#minor and where you have it lined up in your track is some sort of E6 with a root of F# which is not in a minor key. It's clearly dissonant, I think that's a case of people hearing what they want to hear. But I agree that the rhythm in Miracles is similar to a lot of things Brian was doing at the time. Similarly I don't hear any similarities in the chorus chords of Child and Can't Wait Too Long....   The boot that has Miracles and Can't Wait connected as one track was stitched together by Linnett, which I thought everyone agreed on.  Totally agree/have always heard the Little Bird/Child/Surfs Up connection. Just not hearing the same chords in the sections you mentioned.... Can't Wait is the son of Smile Windchimes, not CITFOTM, at least to me.


Title: Re: I Believe in Miracles and Can't Wait Too Long
Post by: superunison on November 08, 2018, 06:30:33 PM
I guess what I'm saying is that I can hear some sort of thread running through those tracks, just not quite in the way you're hearing them.  I think Brian just like experimenting with that feel.  You can also hear him do it on Cool Cool Water (Version 2) on The Smile Sessions where he transitions from Water/Dada into what sounds like the major chord version of Child.... Miracles is that same rhythm that seems like it was supposed to be a section of something but I still haven't quite figured out what else it's supposed to be piecing together.


Title: Re: I Believe in Miracles and Can't Wait Too Long
Post by: Ebb and Flow on November 08, 2018, 06:50:23 PM
A lot of this is extremely subjective and open to individual interpretation.  To me, the fact that Miracles and that section of CIFOTM work so well together isn't a coincidence or an example of people "hearing what they want to hear".  IMO they're two very similar compositions dating only months apart from a composer who was known to reuse material, especially from Smile.

Again, to me Miracles sounds extremely similar to "Baby you know that I, can't wait forever" mantra that appears on various sections of Can't Wait Too Long.  Whether it was Linnett who connected the two or not, the lineage/evolution of musical concept is still there, even if the chords or keys aren't always exactly the same.  To Brian these were "feels"...fragments of songs that could be salvaged like scrap metal and changed into something else.