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Smiley Smile Stuff => General On Topic Discussions => Topic started by: desmondo on August 01, 2013, 08:32:06 AM



Title: Smile Mixing desk question for scholars
Post by: desmondo on August 01, 2013, 08:32:06 AM
I am hoping that someone can tell me what happened to the various mixing desks that were used for the Smile Sessions in 66/67 - I believe there is one in Bath UK - any help greatly appreciated

Thanks


Title: Re: Smile Mixing desk question for scholars
Post by: DonnyL on August 01, 2013, 09:20:07 AM
There's no specific 'SMILE Console' per se ... Brian used whatever desks were at the studios around LA at the time. These were all essentially custom-built. I have some info on the console at Columbia somewhere. The one at Western was Universal Audio. I doubt if one of those consoles were in the UK it would be referred to as the 'SMILE mixing desk' ... because there would also be countless other classics recorded and mixed through it!

Brian used Western, Columbia and Sunset Sound mostly I believe. Wally Heider's a little ater on.

Now there WAS a specific 'SMILEY SMILE' mixing console ... that would have just been for recording though ... it was actually mixed at one of the proper studios (no one can confirm where!)


Title: Re: Smile Mixing desk question for scholars
Post by: desmondo on August 01, 2013, 09:24:30 AM
There's no specific 'SMILE Console' per se ... Brian used whatever desks were at the studios around LA at the time. These were all essentially custom-built. I have some info on the console at Columbia somewhere. The one at Western was Universal Audio. I doubt if one of those consoles were in the UK it would be referred to as the 'SMILE mixing desk' ... because there would also be countless other classics recorded and mixed through it!

Brian used Western, Columbia and Sunset Sound mostly I believe. Wally Heider's a little ater on.

Now there WAS a specific 'SMILEY SMILE' mixing console ... that would have just been for recording though ... it was actually mixed at one of the proper studios (no one can confirm where!)

I understand this one was built for Frank Sinatra and sold to the Beach Boys - any help

A friend is recording through it today!!!


Title: Re: Smile Mixing desk question for scholars
Post by: DonnyL on August 01, 2013, 09:34:57 AM
There's no specific 'SMILE Console' per se ... Brian used whatever desks were at the studios around LA at the time. These were all essentially custom-built. I have some info on the console at Columbia somewhere. The one at Western was Universal Audio. I doubt if one of those consoles were in the UK it would be referred to as the 'SMILE mixing desk' ... because there would also be countless other classics recorded and mixed through it!

Brian used Western, Columbia and Sunset Sound mostly I believe. Wally Heider's a little ater on.

Now there WAS a specific 'SMILEY SMILE' mixing console ... that would have just been for recording though ... it was actually mixed at one of the proper studios (no one can confirm where!)

I understand this one was built for Frank Sinatra and sold to the Beach Boys - any help

A friend is recording through it today!!!


Is it UA? Doesn't really make sense man. The Beach Boys wouldn't have bought a console during the Smile Sessions, sorry! The mixer used for Smiley was a Gates broadcast job, probably rented. The one they bought for BW's home studio around '68 was a custom Quad-8 board, made to Desper's specs I believe.


Title: Re: Smile Mixing desk question for scholars
Post by: desmondo on August 01, 2013, 09:49:20 AM
There's no specific 'SMILE Console' per se ... Brian used whatever desks were at the studios around LA at the time. These were all essentially custom-built. I have some info on the console at Columbia somewhere. The one at Western was Universal Audio. I doubt if one of those consoles were in the UK it would be referred to as the 'SMILE mixing desk' ... because there would also be countless other classics recorded and mixed through it!

Brian used Western, Columbia and Sunset Sound mostly I believe. Wally Heider's a little ater on.

Now there WAS a specific 'SMILEY SMILE' mixing console ... that would have just been for recording though ... it was actually mixed at one of the proper studios (no one can confirm where!)

I understand this one was built for Frank Sinatra and sold to the Beach Boys - any help

A friend is recording through it today!!!


Is it UA? Doesn't really make sense man. The Beach Boys wouldn't have bought a console during the Smile Sessions, sorry! The mixer used for Smiley was a Gates broadcast job, probably rented. The one they bought for BW's home studio around '68 was a custom Quad-8 board, made to Desper's specs I believe.

I think it was Western 3 - probably it was a question of the board being made for Frank and Brian just used it as it was there


Title: Re: Smile Mixing desk question for scholars
Post by: c-man on August 01, 2013, 10:41:23 AM
Now there WAS a specific 'SMILEY SMILE' mixing console ... that would have just been for recording though ... it was actually mixed at one of the proper studios (no one can confirm where!)

"Smiley Smile" was mixed at Wally Heider's, per Jim Lockert.


Title: Re: Smile Mixing desk question for scholars
Post by: Mikie on August 01, 2013, 11:40:43 AM
Yeah, Ken Lockert verified that too.

I always wanted to see Murry's board that Britz built for him.  Anybody have a picture?


Title: Re: Smile Mixing desk question for scholars
Post by: DonnyL on August 01, 2013, 12:08:34 PM
Now there WAS a specific 'SMILEY SMILE' mixing console ... that would have just been for recording though ... it was actually mixed at one of the proper studios (no one can confirm where!)

"Smiley Smile" was mixed at Wally Heider's, per Jim Lockert.

ah cool ... Can we assume Wild Honey was mixed there as well ?


Title: Re: Smile Mixing desk question for scholars
Post by: DonnyL on August 01, 2013, 12:09:29 PM
There's no specific 'SMILE Console' per se ... Brian used whatever desks were at the studios around LA at the time. These were all essentially custom-built. I have some info on the console at Columbia somewhere. The one at Western was Universal Audio. I doubt if one of those consoles were in the UK it would be referred to as the 'SMILE mixing desk' ... because there would also be countless other classics recorded and mixed through it!

Brian used Western, Columbia and Sunset Sound mostly I believe. Wally Heider's a little ater on.

Now there WAS a specific 'SMILEY SMILE' mixing console ... that would have just been for recording though ... it was actually mixed at one of the proper studios (no one can confirm where!)

I understand this one was built for Frank Sinatra and sold to the Beach Boys - any help

A friend is recording through it today!!!


Is it UA? Doesn't really make sense man. The Beach Boys wouldn't have bought a console during the Smile Sessions, sorry! The mixer used for Smiley was a Gates broadcast job, probably rented. The one they bought for BW's home studio around '68 was a custom Quad-8 board, made to Desper's specs I believe.

I think it was Western 3 - probably it was a question of the board being made for Frank and Brian just used it as it was there

in that case, it would be an original UA board! let's see some photos !!!


Title: Re: Smile Mixing desk question for scholars
Post by: desmondo on August 01, 2013, 12:24:25 PM
I'll get one organised


Title: Re: Smile Mixing desk question for scholars
Post by: desmondo on August 01, 2013, 12:28:31 PM
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151520752691401&set=a.105331031400.98115.684221400&type=1&theater


Title: Re: Smile Mixing desk question for scholars
Post by: DonnyL on August 01, 2013, 12:36:48 PM
WOAH yep that's a legit UA board ... don't think it was ever owned by the Beach Boys, but it certainly was used by them! any MANY MANY others if it's from Western.

What's the name of the studio that owns it? PM me.


Title: Re: Smile Mixing desk question for scholars
Post by: guitarfool2002 on August 01, 2013, 01:00:51 PM
Sure enough, that is a UA board! Cool. Not a lot of those around.

I do want to clarify something: Those were modular boards, all of those used at United Western at least until '67-'68 or so, which means they were all basically assembled using the same 610 modules. Saying one was built specifically for Sinatra, or whoever else, may suggest a custom build, but essentially weren't all of them basically using the same components? There was one on display at an AES convention last decade which was the mobile board used by Wally Heider, among others, to record a variety of live albums, and it was essentially a group of 610 modules in a housing just like the Pet Sounds photos of Britz et al at Western 3, and all of the rest from that specific era.

Would it be wrong to suggest anything that would have been "custom" would have been the housing and the number of modules? I'm thinking the term may be misleading in this case since the whole idea of UA's "modular" design was that these pieces could be easily swapped in and out as required.

And yes, Smiley Smile was mixed at Heiders by Jim Lockert, and the process was described by Jim and reprinted in the Byron Preiss book.


As far as where are these things today...the UA stuff could have would up anywhere as evidenced by that new photo posted here, and since it was sold elsewhere, just because it was a UA board doesn't mean it was used exclusively at Western, or United, or wherever.

According to Hal Blaine, when United-Western swapped out and upgraded their studios, circa 1967, Papa John Phillips bought what was probably in Western 3 (he loved that room as well) and used that to set up a home studio. Again, according to Blaine, this would have been around '67 but dates like that can't always be trusted.  :)

And another somewhat famous UA "board" is the one owned by Neil Young, and there is a video and written account of how they brought it back to UA for a special retro recording session some time ago. But that Neil Young-owned board is a fully-maintained and working example, as is the one owned by Mark Linett.

But this new-found UA board mentioned here...hot damn, that is cool. On the surface maybe a little more legend attached to it than perhaps is really accurate, but who knows until more is told about it. More info on that would be appreciated.


Title: Re: Smile Mixing desk question for scholars
Post by: guitarfool2002 on August 01, 2013, 01:19:01 PM
And just for comparison, this is one of the better 60's photos of Brian behind one of Western's boards (Studio 3, I believe), compare this UA modular board to the one in the new photo (they're not the same, but built with similar components and modules):

(http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n295/guitarfool2002/brianuaboard1a_zps3da61501.jpg)


Title: Re: Smile Mixing desk question for scholars
Post by: guitarfool2002 on August 01, 2013, 01:44:58 PM
A real keeper from a BB's soundtrack session:

(http://www.ypomr.com/images/other/images/bw1.jpg)


Title: Re: Smile Mixing desk question for scholars
Post by: guitarfool2002 on August 01, 2013, 01:46:51 PM
Note that both of the UA consoles from those 60's photos use the same 610 modules, but they're different configurations and/or housings.


Title: Re: Smile Mixing desk question for scholars
Post by: desmondo on August 01, 2013, 02:11:09 PM
At the mo all I have is the photo and a little bit of info (as above from a Friend) - as soon I get more I will post


Title: Re: Smile Mixing desk question for scholars
Post by: desmondo on August 01, 2013, 02:14:03 PM
Those B/W pics look too early - pre 66/67


Title: Re: Smile Mixing desk question for scholars
Post by: Jason Penick on August 01, 2013, 02:15:14 PM

Is it UA? Doesn't really make sense man. The Beach Boys wouldn't have bought a console during the Smile Sessions, sorry! The mixer used for Smiley was a Gates broadcast job, probably rented. The one they bought for BW's home studio around '68 was a custom Quad-8 board, made to Desper's specs I believe.

Wait, though. Is it possible they bought it to take it out on the road with them? In other words, was their live sound set-up under Steve Desper sophisticated enough to where they would be bringing a board and PA on the road with them by 1967, or were they still using house equipment on every stop? Someone should ask Steve.


Title: Re: Smile Mixing desk question for scholars
Post by: Jason Penick on August 01, 2013, 02:21:29 PM
Now there WAS a specific 'SMILEY SMILE' mixing console ... that would have just been for recording though ... it was actually mixed at one of the proper studios (no one can confirm where!)

"Smiley Smile" was mixed at Wally Heider's, per Jim Lockert.

Mhmm, not just mixed there but physically assembled there as well. Somebody posts Lockert's story to the boards every few years or so, and it's always a fascinating read. I remember he seemed pretty impressed with Brian's modular recording technique!


Title: Re: Smile Mixing desk question for scholars
Post by: DonnyL on August 01, 2013, 03:06:26 PM

Is it UA? Doesn't really make sense man. The Beach Boys wouldn't have bought a console during the Smile Sessions, sorry! The mixer used for Smiley was a Gates broadcast job, probably rented. The one they bought for BW's home studio around '68 was a custom Quad-8 board, made to Desper's specs I believe.

Wait, though. Is it possible they bought it to take it out on the road with them? In other words, was their live sound set-up under Steve Desper sophisticated enough to where they would be bringing a board and PA on the road with them by 1967, or were they still using house equipment on every stop? Someone should ask Steve.

Anything is of course possible in this crazy Beach Boys world, but I suspect any such board would have been rented ... and the UA board would not have been particularly suitable for live work.

The group (or specific members) could very well have bought this board at some point after it was retired from Western. I guess I just feel like since they used the Gates broadcast (i.e., significantly cheaper) board, there's not much of a chance they bought this UA board at any point around '66-'67. I don't think they even bought their own multi-track machine for the home studio until '69. The previous stuff was rented.

I mean, we're just guessing here ... the story of this board being bought by the Beach Boys is basically just heresay ... cool story, maybe even true !

My guess is 'possibly used by the Beach Boys for SMILE' got twisted somewhere along the way.


Title: Re: Smile Mixing desk question for scholars
Post by: DonnyL on August 01, 2013, 03:08:00 PM
A real keeper from a BB's soundtrack session:

(http://www.ypomr.com/images/other/images/bw1.jpg)

as usual, great photos & info Craig !!!

you really know how to dig up these photos


Title: Re: Smile Mixing desk question for scholars
Post by: guitarfool2002 on August 01, 2013, 04:24:58 PM
Now there WAS a specific 'SMILEY SMILE' mixing console ... that would have just been for recording though ... it was actually mixed at one of the proper studios (no one can confirm where!)

"Smiley Smile" was mixed at Wally Heider's, per Jim Lockert.

Mhmm, not just mixed there but physically assembled there as well. Somebody posts Lockert's story to the boards every few years or so, and it's always a fascinating read. I remember he seemed pretty impressed with Brian's modular recording technique!

 ;D  I've been the culprit several times...fascinating reading. I'll repost here as well for those who haven't seen it for awhile.



Title: Re: Smile Mixing desk question for scholars
Post by: guitarfool2002 on August 01, 2013, 04:27:01 PM
From an old post of mine, Jan 2005, probably the ol' Smile Shop, here's the compilation of Jim Lockert talking about Smiley Smile, in italics:


Due to the recent interest in the mixing and sound of the Smiley Smile album on this board, I thought it appropriate to include comments from Jim Lockert, who engineered the album. I think you’ll agree after reading this that the album’s construction was a lot more complicated than it sounds on record.

 Jim Lockert:
“We found a room adjacent to the large music room and built a control room in there and installed a remote console and speakers where we could do it. We were in the office before that…We physically changed the music room into a recording studio with isolation and baffles and sound treatment so we could do some recording in there without problems.

Brian’s swimming pool had a leak in it and was empty, so we put a microphone in the bottom of this damn near Olympic-size swimming pool and the guys laid down inside the pool and sang so the sound would go down the wall of the concrete pool into the microphone-and that was part of the vocals on one of those songs…We had to watch out for the planes coming in over LA airport. We did it late at night so hopefully we wouldn’t have that kind of noise bothering us.

We did some other vocals-all the guys got into the shower and we put the shower on. We had the microphone above the shower head so it wouldn’t get wet. We recorded them singing in the shower. I learned a lot from those guys.

The Smiley Smile album was done on eight track in segments that were never put together in one tape. The intro was on one reel of tape, the first verse was on one reel of tape…When you take a song you have an intro, first verse, a chorus, second verse, a chorus, and then you have an ending. Each segment of that thing was on a different tape for each cut of the album.

We had all the component parts with all the first verses on tape. We went into Wally Heider’s Studio Three one night at five o’clock, we mixed the intro of each song as we went to a two track, then we mixed the first verse, then we went back and wiped off the verse that was on that tape and we put on the second verse or the third verse or whatever was on that song.

We overdubbed the same tape, wiped out the vocals that were there. We didn’t have another take of it. They didn’t want to make copies of it to put it together. So we’d do the first verse and mix it down and then we’d wipe off the vocals on it and then go in and sing all the harmony parts and lead parts for the second verse and record it onto the tape. Then we’d go in and mix it down.

They were overdubbing the instrumental track. We’d overdub on the same instrumental track. You’d wipe out the first voice and put the second verse voices on it. We had one piece of tape for the verse. We’d mix it to a two track, we’d erase the vocals on the verse, and we’d rerecord the second set of vocals on it. We mixed each piece of this down as we went along…We’d cut the piece together so that the song was almost together by the time we were through. Almost every cut was this way. “Vega-tables”, “Little Pad”, “She’s Goin’ Bald”.

When we came out the next morning at six o’clock, the album was mixed down, cut together, and was complete. One of the guys from Wally Heider was my second engineer and he said, “Well, I never believed in miracles but I saw one tonight.”

That’s the way they did it. It wasn’t my idea. They mixed it chorus and verse, chorus and verse and intro, and all the levels had to match.”

Jim Lockert’s comments were taken from Byron Preiss’ book “The Beach Boys”.
Guitarfool2002




2013: Every time I read that, it's still amazing that so much went into that album and yet it sounds so primitive.




Title: Re: Smile Mixing desk question for scholars
Post by: guitarfool2002 on August 01, 2013, 04:29:10 PM
A real keeper from a BB's soundtrack session:

(http://www.ypomr.com/images/other/images/bw1.jpg)

as usual, great photos & info Craig !!!

you really know how to dig up these photos

Thanks! You don't see that one too often, that's from Mark Linett's page.

Note the girl in the front of the photo with the bow in her hair...Annette Funicello. There are other shots from this session, but they never show the board or those old monitors.


Title: Re: Smile Mixing desk question for scholars
Post by: guitarfool2002 on August 01, 2013, 04:37:22 PM
Those B/W pics look too early - pre 66/67

Please read my posts and comments...I realized that, especially the film session with Annette and the striped shirts  which we can date, I was putting them up for comparison and to show visually that the "boards" used by UA had the same basic components up to at least 1967...the UA 610 strip. And since those were interchangeable - the whole point of any modular design in any field - the chances of them being swapped or changed out over time are very great, especially for quick breakdowns and repairs, where they'd simply change them out if one went bad on a session, like changing a car tire.

So any surviving UA board might have any number of individual strips which were used on any number of thousands of sessions. It's not like, say, when you have a specific SSL board or something like that where the board is the same board that was originally ordered and installed. At least the chances are far greater that it's the same board.

In the case of Bill Putnam's modular boards, unless there is documentation or a strong memory involved, who knows what signals or classic sessions went through it over the time it was installed in a particular studio.

And again, the point is that modular board had the same 610 strips for the "striped shirt" Beach Boys as they used in the later photo, as they used on Pet Sounds, as they used on Smile, etc.

Anything done at United-Western used the 610 channel strip at that time. That was the heart of that design, the key "module" in the whole equation.

You asked for info, you're welcome.  :)


Title: Re: Smile Mixing desk question for scholars
Post by: guitarfool2002 on August 01, 2013, 04:55:07 PM
Here is a wider-angle shot of a familiar Smile session photo at Western. Note that smaller, one-meter Bill Putnam "board" is still built on the same 610 modules.

And can anyone venture a guess on who the girl is sitting with Brian?  :)

(http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n295/guitarfool2002/brianwesternmix.jpg)

Here is Stephen Desper at the board in Brian's home studio, circa 1968. Definitely not a UA modular board by this time. And I think it was Donny L or Jason who said the BB's didn't own a board in 66-67, but rather rented, I believe that's right up to a certain point, and it wasn't UA (again please correct if wrong.)

(http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n295/guitarfool2002/sd2.jpg)

And the board Brian is sitting behind in the photo earlier is more or less the same board that was in Western 3 at least up to early '67, I believe. Photos showing that angle are scarce...but here is the famous "egg nog" shot with Winston Wong where you can see the same basic chassis of the board as Brian is shown sitting behind in the earlier shot:

(http://www.rockdelux.com/files/article/9662/bibliotecapop-beachboys-2.jpg)



Title: Re: Smile Mixing desk question for scholars
Post by: DonnyL on August 01, 2013, 05:00:53 PM
And can anyone venture a guess on who the girl is sitting with Brian?  :)

(http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n295/guitarfool2002/brianwesternmix.jpg)

Diane Rovell ?!?

Here is Stephen Desper at the board in Brian's home studio, circa 1968. Definitely not a UA modular board by this time. And I think it was Donny L or Jason who said the BB's didn't own a board in 66-67, but rather rented, I believe that's right up to a certain point, and it wasn't UA (again please correct if wrong.)

(http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n295/guitarfool2002/sd2.jpg)

I think this board might be the Quad-8.


Title: Re: Smile Mixing desk question for scholars
Post by: GoodVibrations33 on August 01, 2013, 05:07:30 PM
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151520752691401&set=a.105331031400.98115.684221400&type=1&theater


I noticed Mark Linett commented on the facebook photo twice in the last hour ^^ for those interested.


Title: Re: Smile Mixing desk question for scholars
Post by: c-man on August 01, 2013, 09:01:29 PM
Now there WAS a specific 'SMILEY SMILE' mixing console ... that would have just been for recording though ... it was actually mixed at one of the proper studios (no one can confirm where!)

"Smiley Smile" was mixed at Wally Heider's, per Jim Lockert.

ah cool ... Can we assume Wild Honey was mixed there as well ?

An extremely safe bet, considering about half the album was recorded there.


Title: Re: Smile Mixing desk question for scholars
Post by: guitarfool2002 on August 01, 2013, 09:18:14 PM
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151520752691401&set=a.105331031400.98115.684221400&type=1&theater


I noticed Mark Linett commented on the facebook photo twice in the last hour ^^ for those interested.

The modules are the key.  :)


Title: Re: Smile Mixing desk question for scholars
Post by: guitarfool2002 on August 01, 2013, 09:26:20 PM
Just for the record, and to add another question re: Wild Honey and later '67 sessions in general...

Here are a few shots of the board rented by Wally Heider to accompany Jim Lockert, Bill Halverson, Dale Manquen, and the Beach Boys to Hawaii for the live recordings:

(http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n295/guitarfool2002/lockert4.jpg)

(http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n295/guitarfool2002/lockert7.jpg)

(http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n295/guitarfool2002/lockert6.jpg)


According to Manquen, this setup which went to Hawaii was state-of-the-art, top of the line, all of that stuff for summer 1967.

As such, would it then make sense that either this board shown in my still frames or one similar to it was the one that either mixed Smiley Smile, recorded the Redwood tracks, or recorded Wild Honey and whatever else was done at Heider's in summer and fall 1967? I'm just going on the fact that this is what Wally rented the BB's in August, I'm guessing from Manquen's words the best he had to offer them, why wouldn't they use it to record the other stuff as well?


Title: Re: Smile Mixing desk question for scholars
Post by: guitarfool2002 on August 01, 2013, 09:48:54 PM
Just reading over a Bill Halverson interview, he said Wally Heider "Studio 3" - where Brian recorded - had a board custom built by Frank Demedio (as many of Wally's boards were, the way it seems) out of UA parts.

The control room photos of Hawaii clearly show that board, and Dale Manquen related the whole backstory on his website about how Frank Demedio and his father were in the process of building that board in summer '67, when Wally needed it to accommodate the 8-track recording in Hawaii. So Manquen went to Frank's house as it was being built, it got shipped to Hawaii having been finished and packed up last minute and recorded the concerts, then that board went into Wally's Studio 3 afterwards, where Brian was working that fall.

So that Frank Demedio-built board seems to be the most logical guess for what the Beach Boys were recording with in Summer/Fall 1967 as those personal recollections seem to back it all up, starting with the last-minute scramble to finish it up in time to ship to Hawaii for the Beach Boys shows.

I love this sh*t.  ;D



Title: Re: Smile Mixing desk question for scholars
Post by: willmansell on January 18, 2018, 07:17:57 AM
Does anyone have any of the above photos of the modular UA 610 console from Western #3 saved? They've all expired as far as I can see.


Title: Re: Smile Mixing desk question for scholars
Post by: yrplace on January 18, 2018, 08:34:41 AM
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151520752691401&set=a.105331031400.98115.684221400&type=1&theater


This console was purported to have been owned by Sinatra, but it was never installed at Western or used by the Beach Boys. The UA console in Studio 3 was an older model with difft signal path. That console was later sold to John Phillips and eventually ended up in Canada where it was dismantled.

A picture of the Studio 3 console taken in 1968 can be downloaded here:  https://personal.filesanywhere.com/fs/v.aspx?v=8d706a89605f76afb49b

I  own the UA console that was installed in Western Studio 2 and used for much of the Party album , some early sessions like "punchline" and occasional overdubs. I used it for many sessions with Brian as well as the stereo mix of Pet Sounds.

The one in the UK has similar modules to the one in Western Studio 2

Mark Linett


Title: Re: Smile Mixing desk question for scholars
Post by: guitarfool2002 on January 18, 2018, 08:42:30 AM
Does anyone have any of the above photos of the modular UA 610 console from Western #3 saved? They've all expired as far as I can see.

Sorry about the photos, that was the photo host I used that decided to block direct liking unless you paid a fee that was absurd to be a "full member" or some nonsense. I still have all of those, I just can't link them directly.

Anyone know a good photo hosting site that doesn't shake you down for 30 a month in fees?  :)


Title: Re: Smile Mixing desk question for scholars
Post by: guitarfool2002 on January 18, 2018, 08:47:28 AM
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151520752691401&set=a.105331031400.98115.684221400&type=1&theater


This console was purported to have been owned by Sinatra, but it was never installed at Western or used by the Beach Boys. The UA console in Studio 3 was an older model with difft signal path. That console was later sold to John Phillips and eventually ended up in Canada where it was dismantled.

A picture of the Studio 3 console taken in 1968 can be downloaded here:  https://personal.filesanywhere.com/fs/v.aspx?v=8d706a89605f76afb49b

I  own the UA console that was installed in Western Studio 2 and used for much of the Party album , some early sessions like "punchline" and occasional overdubs. I used it for many sessions with Brian as well as the stereo mix of Pet Sounds.

The one in the UK has similar modules to the one in Western Studio 2

Mark Linett


Interesting about Sinatra possibly owning that console, because he was one of the financial backers and investors who bankrolled Bill Putnam's United/Western development in the early days from what I understand. That would also explain why so many of Frank's Rat Pack crew and Frank himself recorded at Putnam's studios when Reprise was started in the early 60's, same time as Putnam was getting United up and running. Mutual interest.


Title: Re: Smile Mixing desk question for scholars
Post by: guitarfool2002 on January 18, 2018, 09:45:53 AM
Ok, I have a way to repost some of those blocked photos:

(https://i.imgur.com/cmrEiiD.jpg)


Title: Re: Smile Mixing desk question for scholars
Post by: willmansell on January 18, 2018, 10:55:58 AM
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151520752691401&set=a.105331031400.98115.684221400&type=1&theater


This console was purported to have been owned by Sinatra, but it was never installed at Western or used by the Beach Boys. The UA console in Studio 3 was an older model with difft signal path. That console was later sold to John Phillips and eventually ended up in Canada where it was dismantled.

A picture of the Studio 3 console taken in 1968 can be downloaded here:  https://personal.filesanywhere.com/fs/v.aspx?v=8d706a89605f76afb49b

I  own the UA console that was installed in Western Studio 2 and used for much of the Party album , some early sessions like "punchline" and occasional overdubs. I used it for many sessions with Brian as well as the stereo mix of Pet Sounds.

The one in the UK has similar modules to the one in Western Studio 2

Mark Linett



Wow thanks Mark, that picture is perfect - just what I need!


Title: Re: Smile Mixing desk question for scholars
Post by: Stephen W. Desper on January 19, 2018, 06:30:47 AM
There's no specific 'SMILE Console' per se ... Brian used whatever desks were at the studios around LA at the time. These were all essentially custom-built. I have some info on the console at Columbia somewhere. The one at Western was Universal Audio. I doubt if one of those consoles were in the UK it would be referred to as the 'SMILE mixing desk' ... because there would also be countless other classics recorded and mixed through it!

Brian used Western, Columbia and Sunset Sound mostly I believe. Wally Heider's a little ater on.

Now there WAS a specific 'SMILEY SMILE' mixing console ... that would have just been for recording though ... it was actually mixed at one of the proper studios (no one can confirm where!)



COMMENT:  When it was decided to do recording at Brian's BelAir home, Jim Lockart, a staff engineer at Hyder's place, put together some equipment from there that was used for rental remotes.  He brought in a Scully 280 8-track and 2-track, two 604e Altec Monitors and a Gates Radio Console and a closed-circuit TV setup. UA consoles were not very portable and designed for permanent installation, whereas the Gates Broadcast console could be moved from one place to another (by two men and a boy). It was used more for remote broadcasting of events like sport games, political rallies, or musical remotes. Still, it had excellent specifications, low noise, and distortion with full fidelity. It was a tube console. The console had been modified for recording, which is not hard to do. Most of the work at the home was just mono recording of stacked tracks. The console could be used for making stereo mixes however. I know this, because I use to cover for Jimmy when he was out sick (he suffered from emphysema) so I was stacking tracks many times.

To answer your question, as far as I know Brian and Jimmy mixed songs of Smiley Smile, Wild Honey, and Friends using the home studio and the Gates console. It was a long time ago, but Brian had recorded lots of songs that found homes on these various albums at various times. It was not record-one-album-and-move-on-to-the-next, rather the albums were assembled from the roster of songs available as time went along. Each song was recorded on its own, not with any specific album in mind. So all these albums were a collection of songs recorded at both Brian's house and studio sessions.

If I remember correctly (someone correct me if I'm wrong), some were mixed in mono and some in stereo, but engineer Mark later remixed the mono versions for stereo release.

Gates made several console styles.  The one used at Brian's house looked somewhat like this . . .

(http://brusheswithgreatness.net/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/gates_wide_DSC00053.png)

As you will note, there is no EQ or panning -- only left/center/right. EQ was patched in and via Pultec or UA outboard EQ. Microphone preamps were also outboard, which accounts for the superb quality of the recording.

I remember the restoration project at United. In an effort to re-vitalize Brian out of his depression, Studio B (Brian's favorite) was refitted with all the original equipment for a series of sessions. A frame was constructed over the modern console and a UA tube console placed right over the faders.  Altec 604e's were erected in front of the flush mounted JBL speakers, McIntosh tube amps powered them. A 350 Ampex 4-track using tubes was located and re-conditioned for the event. Many of the old session players were hired (some retired) for the sessions. Chuck Britz (who was also retired) came back to run the sessions.

The reason I bring this up is to recall how so many engineers, who had grown up in the transistor age, stopped by and voiced how amazed they were at the sound. "It was so clear -- so musical ". . . "I never knew tubes had that many highs," were some of the comments I heard.    

So don't sell any of this equipment short.  Even today, some of the equipment used back then is now praised and coveted for it's musical quality.

We engineers who recorded way-back-when have a saying among ourselves . . . The musical quality of tubes that transistors diminished was finally destroyed by digital sampling. You can take that for what it's worth.


~swd  


Title: Re: Smile Mixing desk question for scholars
Post by: Stephen W. Desper on January 19, 2018, 12:13:38 PM
COMMENT:

When Brian recorded at Universal Recording Studio B, the UA console looked a lot like this:

(http://www.aes.org/aeshc/jpg/conv109/ua_modular_console.jpg)

12 positions -- bass and treble EQ -- Left/Center/Right panning via switches -- and aux routing

In some cases this console was setup for Mono, with the three meters for line/preview/cue. In a period of time when all consoles had to be custom made, this was a revolutionary design because it was modular. Some studios (even major ones) bought extra modules and added channels to the original twelve. Inside the console are combining networks and line amps.


~swd


Title: Re: Smile Mixing desk question for scholars
Post by: Hickory Violet Part IV on January 19, 2018, 12:47:37 PM
I've heard about the 'restoration' sessions. Was anything actually recorded?


Title: Re: Smile Mixing desk question for scholars
Post by: Stephen W. Desper on January 19, 2018, 01:23:51 PM
I've heard about the 'restoration' sessions. Was anything actually recorded?

COMMENT:  Yes, but mostly by me. I was there to record a "documentation tape." My involvement was nothing more.  I ran a two-track machine which recorded all the sound in the control room -- all playbacks, live conversation, and talkback chatter. The idea was to have these tapes for posterity. I have no idea where the tapes are now, but I suppose they're in the vault somewhere.

It took a good three days to modify the studio control room and at least a month to round up and repair all the vintage equipment.

The session day came and as the musicians assembled, the atmosphere was like a home-coming or family reunion. Many of the folks had not seen each other for years. Some were part of the original "Wreaking Crew," but all had worked with Brian before during the early days of his career. No one had any idea about what would be recorded, but awaited Brian's word.

Brian arrived and after much greeting Brian came into the control room and was really happy to see Chuck again. It seemed this idea might just work. Brian was really not very well prepared. He had some loose ideas for songs, but never utilized the fantastic talent that had been assembled for his benefit. After several hours, Brian decided to leave. The following day, he came by again, but to answer your question, nothing really happened of merit.

In hindsight I would say that Brian's problem at that time was his inability to handle all the pressure everyone was expecting of him. And this session did not help. Here was everything as it was when he cut his really big hits -- the studio -- the musicians -- the vintage equipment. Like stepping back in time, only everyone was older.

But Brian was on a different time schedule and it was to be years before he would triumph over his internal problems so that his creativity would again flourish. And that's about it.

Watch this video to get a flavor of what the session was kinda like. And you may be able to hear how "musical" the old tube consoles sounded.

Session using Tube Putnam console >>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAAoyYOYy94


~swd