The Smiley Smile Message Board

... Curiouser and curiouser ...

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Wow!!! Awesome!!!  :woot :rock :tm :spin :drum :beer

Just like old times! How can that picture not make you smile!  :)

This is the greatest news ever  ;D ;D ;D

Well apart from the reunion....and Smie

Fantastic news. Hopefully David will get to wail on a couple tunes.

Great picture, the plot thickens....

I can't wipe the SMiLE off my face after seeing that picture!

WTF? :lol

Me thinking its the long awaited R&R album has gone at the window. Would Ozzy Osbourne meets Woodie Guthrie work anyone? ;D

...or maybe they are rushing a "Cotton Fields" mix over to Capitol for the Live album due to the SPECIAL REQUEST thread on this board? ;)

I think I'd actually prefer a Brian-with-Al-guesting album than a Beach Boys album, anyway (blasphemy!), so this is really cool. While the group dynamic is missing, you get more Brian songs and less Mike nostalgia. Not that the latter doesn't have it's place, I've just had my fill from the last album.

That's kinda the elephant in the room, isn't it? I agree totally, by the way.

Love the photos, smiles, wardrobe, guests, positivity....God knows we need it right now, but would anybody like to venture a guess why there is no info attached to the photos about the project Brian is working on?

I don't see an elephant in the room.

Do you think it's an attempt to get Mike to pay attention?

I honestly have no idea, but I do think it's a bit odd to be posting picture after picture without posting ANYTHING as to WHAT THEY ARE RECORDING. Beck, Keltner, Was, that female bass player; those are some big guns.

I think Al doing some leads on a new Brian CD would be so cool  :smokin :smokin :smokin :smokin

100% agree. Though I'd add David to the guest list.

Shall I be the first one to suggest that it is a new Beach Boys album that is proceeding like the CSN "Daylight Again" -- which was originally Garfunkle, Stills, and Nash -- just make the darn thing in spite of the absent, difficult member, and overdub later?

Out of that list, I only see 3 "big guns".

Having Al Jardine's voice on your recording is a very good thing, imho!

He's on the other side of the glass singing, my sources (the voices ) say that this cd is going to be called "The sweet landlocked insanity of stars and stripes vol2 while the  adult child goes Back to the zoo-featuring Andy Paley while being leid in hawaii with shut down vol 1  at christmas time unplugged because Brian Loves you".

Weeeeel...instead of beating the poor elephant again, I've always believed that the nuts and bolts of another decent Brian album have certainly been there for a number of years. It's almost turnkey post TLOS and TWGMTR. When you introduce certain parties such as Mike, there needs to be a certain 'compromise' that takes place.

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Al has now posted a pic on Facebook of himself at the mic, and another with Al and Jeff Foskett. I would link, but don't know how.

More than anything I'm happy for Al  ;D

                                         HEY NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :h5 :thumbsup :h5 :happydance :h5 :woot :woot :woot

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Damn, Jeff.  ;D

Soooooooooooooooooooooooooooo true.

 What and kill the spontaneous speculation?   ;D

It's Pleasure Island, it has to be.

Probably just recording station IDs and/or commercial V.O.  for some ol' FM rock stations.  :'(

Okay, I hope thats wrong.  :p

I'd love for that to be true, Shady.

Though I think TWGMTR would be hard to top, I'd also love another Beach Boys record.  It would be great to think that there could be enough goodwill between the fellas to pull it off and if everyone was really, honestly up for the challenge, producing a collective work as good as last year's release doesn't have to be impossible.

I'm still hoping that the rest of the suite is being finished for release, whether it be on Made in California, a new Beach Boys record or a BW solo release.

It certainly is intriguing.  And fun!

For those who know. We had shots, what, 1-2 months ago of Brian at the mic doing vocals. Now its the musicians (plus Al and Jeff of course).

Has this been Brians method of recording his solo albums in the past?

Wow! I'm getting excited. I have a feeling whatever Brian and Al are working, it's going to be great! I have high expectations.

At the very least there could be some new material for the shows later this year.

Al looks like he was havin' the time of his life until the photo of him and Jeff.

lol, that's true.

Hmmm.... Maybe it' just that Brian is producing Jeff's new solo album with special guests.

Looks like Al's 'directing' again.  Just like he did on stage during the C50 concerts.

Drunk karaoke time. Jeff is a disaster every time you can hear him on Radio. A "Brian and friends," even including Al, is a disaster. Distinctly articulated solo albums aside (Postcard; The Circle Continues) nothing means anything as we now look ahead --and I am tired of explaining this--except a new BB album. The world is divided into people who believe that and those who don't.

Myself and a couple of other guys were talking to Nelson Bragg at a pub after the Sydney show last year. Can't recall if he said Brian WAS definitely going to make an album this year or had a strong feeling he might do one and then tour the album next year. Whatever it is, it certainly looks promising.

Why wouldn't this be a distinctively articulated solo album? If it says "Brian Wilson" on the front, it's by definition different than "The Beach Boys." And Postcard was nothing if not "Al and friends."

Given the strong evidence we've heard from people within the group, it looks as though there will be no new BB album. So if that's the case, would you really prefer to never again hear from Brian?

Wirestone so keenly deconstructs my message (for which vigilance thank you), so he merits my detailed response.

Al had a lot to say after never having done a solo album, and the BB world was dry. Yes, he delighted us with "friends" and all the BB were "friends" on that album, a prelude to the reunion. I cherish the album and its sincerity and humanity. Dave has done two solo albums in adulthood, so in tracing his redemptive story and wanting to hear as much of his artful guitar as possible, I love both those albums.

But the situation of BW in the studio in 2013 is a different animal: after the reunion and after Radio and after the full-wave rhetoric of unity and "harmony, boys" and all the celebratory aspects of Radio and the many majestic shows. . . . .as I say "after" all this, to have BW back in the studio working on what could have been and should have been a BB album, a joyously collaborative work of the 5 BB standing, means very little to me. I try to convince no one out of their opinions, but I am relentless in mine.  Ironman 3? OK, but I can't wait until he picks up the phone and calls in Captain America in a future film. Have I not been clear about the mythic archetype I demand?  Does no one stand with me in demanding of history what history should yield? No one makes a movie called "it would have been 7 samurai but like two of them are doing their own thing, but these are the best and most inspired of the samurai."

Wirestone, you know this, as your posts are learned and scholarly. You know this.
 

One thing's for sure, Brian has looked fantastic in every picture they have released thus far.  Not an awkward one in the bunch!

Which of course means only one thing.  ;D

but Jeff is all over the last album. what makes you think he wouldn't be all over the next BBs album?

Mike had a chance to keep the reunion going. to keep playing world-class arenas, to keep making critically-acclaimed and chart-topping albums, to please the fans and his bandmates which includes the man who provided Mike with the songs he sings every night to earn his livelihood. Mike passed on that opportunity.

what does Mike really have to offer a new release? nasal singing and yet another chance to insert the words "fun fun fun" into a lyric? nostalgia, "positivity", and an Executive Producer credit? no thanks. the 50th Anniversary showed us in more ways than one that some things will never change... be it the guys' ability to sing harmony or Mike's inability to come across as anything but cheesy, creepy, and classless.

let's hear what Brian has to say without "cousin Mike's" input. Mike has kept Brian down long enough. time after time. the reunion was nice but let's recognize the genius, the voice, and the virtuosity of Brian, Al, and Dave and let's recognize the endless summer egotrip of Mike & Bruce for what they are. as someone else said: Brian is an artist, Mike is an entertainer. Mike has very little talent to speak of and Bruce has squandered his. good riddance to them both.

they can have Sea World and Stamos. we can have Brian, Al, Dave, superb musicianship as orchestrated by Brian, and more of the greatest music ever written and recorded. and a special guest or 3.

Al looks super cute in this picture

That picture of Jeff scared the life out of me!

Another Foskett-bashing thread ? Really ?

Be careful what Brian pictures you post on here! You never know what bulldog is waiting in the wings...:P

No Mike?
No Bruce?
No Dave?
He's had a face lift?
He's drunk?
He's seperated from Melinda?
He had a good motion that morning?
He's getting well paid?
He's getting well laid?

....we have no idea.

They used a canny photographer.

I couldn't disagree more. Jeff did a fine, fine job on That's Why God Made The Radio apart from the bridge of Isn't It Time -- his vocals on Shelter, for example, are lovely.
And what I want more than anything is a Brian-and-Al album. I actually think that having the others on would be more likely to make it worse than better. What I dearly want is an album of the quality of That Lucky Old Sun, but with Al singing the leads.
I do think it's very, very odd that Brian's been working with Beck and Colaiuta, though -- I can't see how their styles would go together at all well.

And they need a high voice in the stack, and for many reasons that's going to be Jeff.

The world is divided into people who believe (that the Beach Boys can still sing like they could in '66) and those who don't.

fully agree with your sentiment.

What does that even mean?

We know what Brian can do without Mike already. From BW88 through Imagination, GIOMH, TLOS etc… Mike's influence through those years has steadily declined and reduced until last year when they collaborated on a new BBs album that went top 3 US.

Mike hasn't really been keeping Brian down much recently at all.

Al Jardine is looking fly in these photos.

Enough Mike bashing so far on this thread.
Should we start a petition to include Blondie and Ricky now? ::)

I'm with the professor here. I want a full-group album. I want Mike's leads to Brian's songs. And Mike's lyrics to some of Brian's melodies. And full-group vocals.

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Notice the pack of smokes resting on the console. Wonder who those belong to.  :smokin

Indeed.

At first I thought they were playing cards, but now I'm not so sure. Don't think they are cigs, though. Some kind of digital storage device maybe?

I think that's the remote for talkback to the recording room.

They are candy cigs.... ;D

Looks like a pack of playing cards to me.

Perhaps for inspiration. The new album will feature songs like 'Royal Flush', 'Ace Of Spades', 'Queen Of Hearts', 'A New Deck', and so on.

I think I will get my coat.

I think another song will be "professor blues" as I join the Don on the way out... :hat

One thing is for sure.

This is NOT simply Brian recording overdubs for the forthcoming live album.

Notice how close Al's hand is to it.......could be the 'DFA' button  :)

well let's see... Mike has actively tried to wrestle and belittle Brian's creative control for most of the past 50 years: either directlly, in interviews, trying to rewrite BBs history, acquiring sole ownership of the band name, etc. Despite backpedaling, we know that Mike wasn't really big into things like Pet Sounds, SMiLE, Friends, Til I Die, Love You, Adult Child, and most recently the Life Suite... just to name a few. We do know that Mike was VERY BIG into things like Do It Again, Endless Summer, Rock'n'Roll Music, Kokomo, cheerleaders, John Stamos, and playing a show that consists of 95% pre-66 material. Even on the C50 tour.

Aside from Our Prayer being played once or twice, there was no SMiLE material represented (H&V doesn't really count). The SMiLE box was released to rave reviews, huge sales, and an eventual Grammy win. Brian has called it his greatest creation. Surf's Up has been called the greatest song of all-time. Mike knows damn well how popular SMiLE is among the fanbase and beyond but he pretends like it doesn't exist. And he STILL manages to criticize Friends (and other BW works) without any provocation. wtf?


and we know what Mike can do without Brian. and it's atrocious.
the man hasn't written a lyric without the words fun fun fun or good vibrations for many moons now. why is it so important that he be included in Brian's musical vision when he has nothing to offer other than a nasal shell of a voice that was never GREAT to begin with? he has consistently stifled Brian's creative output for decades, and didn't miss a beat when the long-awaited reunion finally happened. And it happened due mainly to Brian's vision, wealth of material, and reaching out to Mike.

as far as we know Mike is not involved in this latest recording project. and if that's the case, we can be pretty sure that Mike is the one responsible for that. those of us clamoring for a new Beach Boys album are overlooking the clear fact that Mike is the one keeping it from happening.

when handed a #3 album, a reunion that brought fans out in droves, and offers to keep playing bigger and better venues... Mike chose Sea World and casinos, Bruce and John Stamos.


the biggest irony is that Mike Love wouldn't be a Beach Boy without Brian Wilson. but Brian Wilson is no longer a Beach Boy because of Mike Love. ain't that a bitch??!!! in that way Mike has kept Brian down for his entire solo career, never mind the petty lawsuits. It can be argued that Mike Love is the reason Brian was forced to pursue a solo career at all.

and yet, somehow, Brian is getting frowned on by some for going in the studio and creating music with a hand-picked cast of amazing players AND Al Jardine?  ??? it's a no-brainer folks. REJOICE!

You have really just summed up the problems fans have with Mike Love. The BBs are legends even in the 21st and only Mike Love doesn't realise that.

Very astute and witty: remark of the day.

I think those are Cyndi Lauper lyrics.

Mike Isn't needed on this one. Brian seems to be suddenly very inspired and that's a good thing.

He looks genuinely relaxed in the studio and better than he's done in a while. If Mike was there he'd insist on writing lyrics, calling songs "a bummer", you know the usual Mike Love crap.

Seems Mike's a cad for wanting to work with Brian and a cad for not wanting to work with Brian.

Likewise Beach Boys fans love to eat each themselves even though we gag on the taste.

no Mike's just a cad. period.

Nobody was against Mike getting back in the studio with Brian, it's just apart from some good bass vocals he didn't really add anything to the TWGMTR album.

I'd love to have him on another album but creatively I think Mike is done.

just looked up cad for fun. it said See Bastard. so i did:


a bit harsh perhaps? you be the judge.  ;)

Awesome to see them in the studio together, hopefully working on something substantial. But I'm surprised we haven't had more attempts at captions. Like

"Fine Al, I know Rolling Stone made me look like a d***, so let's work on 'Waves of Love'."

or

"Mike's going to be so pissed when he finds out we're re-mixing 'Summer in Paradise'!"

or

"Are we really going to call this '51 Big Ones'?"

Oh man, I love this post. Thanks for posting what many here believe to be true. :woot :happydance :woot :thumbsup :woot :love :woot

HOLY CRAP!!! Another fantastic post. Bossaroo, you are THE MAN!! KEEP ON GOING-you've got our full attention! Tell it like it really is out there.

The bassplayer seen with Brian and the others in studio posted this on FB, which makes it clear and obvious:


So yeah, this isn't Brian producing Jeff or rerecording live takes or whatever, he is doing new songs and has Al Jardine + Jeff Beck in the studio.

And that is why my head is exploding

For your sake, I hope it is not another "Ding Dang" type song that he is doing with Jeff Beck. Definitely not worth exploding your head for that. Maybe just piss yourself over it. ;)

Does every single thread have to turn into Mike Love backslashing?
Gee, a few fans say they want a new album from the BBs and suddenly we get a list of reasons why Mike Love is evil. I want the Lovester involved, dammit! In full nasal glory; with his bass and lead vocals; and lyrics to some of Brian's songs; and his jokes that crack Brian up; I want these guys together. With all the flaws and miseries they've exposed to the world for years. I Love them as an artistic group; and find them compelling as a human bunch.

Dr Lenny is on fire, the fire of divine love. He knows. . . he knows. Praise God that the Professor is not alone in his longing. My bet?  soon we will see Dave in that studio and then, eventually Mike and Bruce. The planets will so align.  If I am wrong, I am wrong.

Err...you do realise that before last year Brian had been going solo since 1998?

I think you need a rest.  :lol

It's not Mike bashing.

People like you state your reasons why you want Mike on the record and then we state why we don't. I don't know how that can be interpreted as bashing.

I would love another BB's record but this is Brian doing a solo one, Mike's not needed. Let Brian get this out of his system.

Quite. I *don't* especially want the other Beach Boys involved, but not because Mike is the most evil man in the whole of human history or anything, just because I think the compromises involved in making a "Beach Boys" album -- compromises that would be imposed at least as much by record label commercial expectations as by any band member -- would make it worse than a "Brian Wilson" or "Brian and Al" album.

I am also fairly certain we won't be getting a new Beach Boys album either.

But that doesn't mean that those who do want those things are wrong for wanting what they want, and it doesn't mean that a thread about what Brian, Al, Jeff and the rest are doing in the studio needs to turn into the ten millionth "Mike Love is responsible for everything bad in the history of the world" thread.

You don't think any of the comments in this thread have been bashing???

Not really. When it comes to Mike the truth hurts in come cases.

God only knows how many years these guys have left on the Earth. The same goes for all of us. It's just sad to see that differences can't be set aside for good.

What are the reasons a new album won't happen? Pride? Ego? Money? Hatred?  ???

Either way I'm glad to see Brian and Al in the studio. I'm sure Dave will be there soon.

When I think of Brian working together with Alan and Dave I can't help but think of Dennis and Carl. Rock on, Beach Boys!

Truth, so many wasted years already.

It looks like a pack of smokes with a Bic mini lighter resting on top. Or a deck of cards. Whether it is or not, it looks that way.  :-D

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You know, I don't think Mike is reading the thread to be hurt by it.  :)

'Bashing' means criticizing. Which fits some of the posts in the thread obviously.

That's right, I guess, if you believe that "Brian does Disney" --or whatever it's called-, and GIOMH, and Imagination, and the live albums, and WIRWFC, which were not polluted by Mike Love's direct input, were better than TWGMTR. To each their own, I guess, but there is a human and historical factor to a reunion. There is a righteousness that places it above solo records and tours. We've witnessed such righteousness last year. It was no fake; whatever it lasted. There's no going back. Damn, Brian knows that when he calls Al to record with him.

Especially when one of the posts said Mike had no talent.

I think that of Brian's solo albums *of his own songs* only Imagination was worse than That's Why God Made The Radio. Gettin' In Over My Head, Brian Wilson and That Lucky Old Sun were all better. And I don't think the covers albums would have been significantly better if they'd been "The Beach Boys Reimagine Gershwin" and "The Beach Boys In The Key Of Disney".

I think it's cool Brian is recording something again, regardless of what it is (which isn't to say I will like it regardless of what it is). TWGMTR was better than I thought it would be and I'd welcome a full-band effort. TLOS was great and other solo efforts had their moments, and I'd welcome a solid offering of new tunes without the others. I'm not a big fan of the previous "guest star" efforts, but that doesn't mean future ones can't be cool. And of course we don't even know that anything any of these people are doing will end up on this or any album. They may be swapped out, they may be bonus tracks, they may be for non-album tunes or compilation tunes, etc. Who knows? Not us.

I do want to comment on this, after which I don't think I've got anything else to say on the topic.


The same kind of "we don't know how much longer we have" can also be the justification for the guys not to work together anymore. If doing something else is what satisfies them, then regardless of what they have done in the past and regardless of what the public, their handlers, the media, or their record companies want, they should do something else instead.

Imagine having an ex-spouse, but having friends and family incessantly badgering you. "It's a shame you two can't work it out: you don't know how much longer you have, after all! You ought to get back together." Well, having a limited time on this planet is likely why you split with the spouse in the first place. Great times behind you, maybe some good times here and there on some civil level continue, but with the limited time you have on this earth, you have decided to move on in other directions. Whatever others think about it, it's your decision to make.

If I were Mike or Brian or whoever, I'd be focused on how I want to spend my limited time on this earth, and that doesn't necessarily mean struggling to get along with guys with whom--despite a tremendous history of making amazing music together--I have regularly battled on a personal, legal, and/or professional level for decades. It might pacify some of the (few) not-cranky fans out there to work together, but frankly, that wouldn't be my concern at that point. My concern would be working (or not working) in an environment that made me happy.

I realize you are stating an opinion, but I respectfully and almost completely disagree with you.

In my opinion, That's Why God Made The Radio is better than ANY Brian Wilson solo album, and on a simple, basic level, the Beach Boys' voices would've significantly improved any of Brian's solo albums.

Is "criticizing" against forum rules or has that word now been reclassified as "bashing"? If someone (ie me) says mYke has no talent, then that is how I see it. Is having a critical view of someone is bashing? If a band has several members, there's usually one of those members you like less than the others. If someone posts something critical about that member that you do not care for, is it wrong to add one's thoughts to that thread, or does that violate a rule? :shrug  

I would agree with you TWGMTR, the BBs voice make an album better. But its the behind scenes stuff the members pull that make the process difficult for Brian sometimes.

I think Al's voice would have. I think Mike's would have if he'd stuck to the bass register, but not otherwise. And I think all of the albums would have been much, much worse for having songs like Spring Vacation, Daybreak Over The Ocean and Beaches In Mind on them.

Assuming Brian is recording "Pleasure Island" what fan wouldn't want it to be Beach Boys record instead of a Brian Wilson solo record.

Sadly Mike has made it clear he wants more input in future Beach Boys material, that we can't have. We all know how long Brian's been working on pleasure island.

Wow. I can understand somebody maybe preferring GIOMH if they hate the production on TWGMTR, but it isn't a better album by a long way.

The vocals on GIOMH were horrendous and the lyrics were abysmal too. I know there are some duff lyrics on TWGMTR but there are so many on the earlier album like hypnotize me/lullaby me, dancer/Cancer, slaying a dragon(?!?) and getting things cranking. The mix was bad and some of the songs sounded better when Brian recorded them while still under Landy's influence. Even Brian's band reportedly hate it. Dismal.

Daybreak is a better song than most on GIOMH.  >:D

close... it's a guy named Michael.

What was this thread about again? It seems to mostly be people vilifying Mike Love even though he has nothing to do with this project and the professor pining away for a Beach Boys album that isn't going to happen whilst incessantly referring to himself in the first person.

Whatever Brian is working on I hope it turns out well and makes him happy, he doesn't owe anyone, and that includes fans and The Beach Boys, anything.

Yes. They will never quit. No matter how many times you point out facts like, aside of "Do It Again" , Mike by no means carried on about cars and surfing on any of the 7 studio released albums post the Smile demise. It was after Endless Summer,,,,,,and even then not a whole lot until they stopped releasing albums on any regular basis in 1980. It's a myth and they won't let it go. Brian's mental, physical, creative and anything else under the sun problems were not the fault nor result of anything Mike Love did or did not do.

Eight years between Smile being abandoned and Endless Summer and somehow Brian would have been just fine and made lots of great music if not for the fact that Mike kept................I don't know............ touring with the rest of the guys playing songs like Wake the World, Sail on Sailor, I Can Hear Music...................And don't even get me started on what Mike did to Brian in the '80's and '90's when Brian was being turned into a robot by a well respected psychologist.

Al and Jeff BOTH rock!  Heck, they could get together with Brian and David and call themselves The Traveling Beach Boys!

 :lol

Mike is "again" being made the villian here because Brian had stated he wanted to make another BB album this year and, because of Mike, the album being made isn't one.

If people hate Mike so much, why do they all want him on the album?

That, Mr Hickey, is the million dollar question.

I've met the man and the experience was distasteful!  But on the other hand, he has his talents, is a great front man and  having all the BBs together, their voices, is better than individual parts.

Who still has a voice that resembles their younger selves between Brian and Mike? Hands down Mike.

Reading it ? No.  Being appraised of the content and overall tenor ? Yes.

In A. N. Other thread, the question was posed, what makes BB fans so crabby ? The torrent of utter bilge vomited forth here by the likes of Bossaroo, is a succinct answer. Uninformed bile masquerading as fact and contributing precisely nothing to the topic in hand except to once more underscore that some folk don't like Mike, and just HAVE to keep telling us about it, ad nauseum.

It's funny, when TWGMTR was being put together and it finally came out and everyone was so surprised how good it actually was, Mike was getting more compliments and love than I've ever seen him get and more than he's probably gotten in decades. That was especially noticeable during the live shows. It then all goes away after he proceeds to move on with his shows with Bruce because people feel he just dropped it all.

I want the album to have Mike and Bruce on it and for it to be another Beach Boys album because I think that's what they do best together. Mike's bass and leads are also integral, IMHO, to what Brian writes vocally.

It's sad that the riffs are so deep that at 70+ years of age, they still for some reason(s) just can't put things aside and it's a shame. Mike, Brian, Al, Bruce, and David should do this album together, but obviously, things are so pathetic that only the biggest celebration possible with the most publicity (50 years) is the only way all parties will agree and join.

Actually I think people were criticizing Mike's contributions and fawning over the suite.

Edited above, by moi.

Vomit???? Bossaroo is a great poster and expressing the honest thoughts of a big segment of BBs fans.

Oh, I didn't mean in his contributions to album writing, but the way he was handling things and coming across. As the tour started to wind down, he started to change back. Obviously, the suite was getting the most praise, thus Mike's comment about how he wasn't a fan of it.

not all of us do. the hazards of having Mike around far outweigh the benefits.
and keep in mind, it appears Mike is the only one responsible for being left out of whatever Brian is currently creating.

AGD-
your posts are are the very definition of "ad nauseum"
you constantly talk down and belittle other posters and come across as a miserable know-it-all (even though you frequently get your facts wrong and confess to never listening to the BBs for enjoyment).

and for some strange reason, you delight in telling everyone that Mike has done nothing wrong. the tour had a set number of dates. Mike fulfilled his contract. never mind that Brian Wilson wants to continue as a full-fledged member of the band he helped found and create. he wrote the songs. he produced the albums. he is the reason the band achieved any kind of lasting success.

I know, i know... you've heard it all before. But apparently some things bear repeating around here.

I think the only subject that's become more tiresome than "Mike Love is evil" is "AGD is evil". Can we please have one thread that isn't just about vulgar abuse?

I take issue with people calling out AGD on his Beach Boys knowledge. He might get the odd fact wrong but even if you dislike his personality you need to respect the extent of knowledge he has on our favorite band.

His website is basically Websters for Beach Boys fans.

I guess humor or an attempt at humor or lightening the mood a bit isn't as welcome with some folks here. Too bad. I'll f*** off next time, okay?

Should I have scrolled through hundreds of posts in that thread, searched "pack of cigarettes on console", made sure no one else before me mentioned it, and double-fact-checked everything before posting? No thanks.

Hey, at least we got the facts now about the thing that looks like a cigarette pack, never mind a little dash of humor to try lightening things up this week of weeks. Back to the 5 decade old Mike Love versus Brian Wilson debates. Enjoy.

Again, I feel like a broken record. You can't have Mike mixed into the formula without having the WHOLE Mike (for better or worse). The Mike who was accurately profiled in the Rolling Stone band interview. That's the elephant in the room. When you add up the pluses and minuses, if I were Brian I'd just let it go. Not worth it. UNLESS of course Mike pushed the issue...which he hasn't. Then, it would be more difficult to be the bad guy and squash it (as Mike did in spectacular fashion in the fall of 2012.

How is that a bash session on Mike? Andrew, for all of your research in all things BB, you exhibit the same knee jerk bias of many of us here.

A new solo album with AL! Hooray - beyond that, it just IS what it IS.

ML hasn't written good lyrics since the pre-Endless Summer days. He's written a couple of decent lyrics to quite good tunes, but then he has no clue production wise so it sounds bad in the end. If another BB album would entail more "spring vacation/good vibration", then I'd rather we put the BB behind us and look forward to Brian's offerings. There is no doubt that ML lyrics botch everything. Spring Vacation for instance a rather good tune with good harmonies, but the lyrics really slay it.

Back to the subject topic, for anyone who remembers....  I can't find it now, but wasn't there once found a partial list of songs believed to be for Pleasure Island, and they were all covers?

Given Brian's quick recording habits these days, is it possible an entire album is in the can by now?

Not sure about that, maybe you're talking about the picture of Brian at the piano where you can see "Pleasure Island" on the sheet music. If we could just zoom in a little further.

(http://oi36.tinypic.com/vo331c.jpg)

Thanks, Shady; I did see this photo and I seem to remember someone zoomed in enough on this or another photo to make out a list of songs.

I recall that too.

If anyone's interested in attempting to do that you can find a pretty high-res version of the picture here

http://regularrecord.blogspot.ie/2011/07/this-lucky-old-son-gets-to-see-brian.html (http://regularrecord.blogspot.ie/2011/07/this-lucky-old-son-gets-to-see-brian.html)

Let's say he started in February - at least the basic laying down of demos and things - maybe he'll be done in around a month? And then another half year to get it out or something....

It's hand written (a.k.a Brian's chicken scratch!), but the first thing under Pleasure Island looks to be "Narrative".....TLOS part 2? :)

Yeah, apart from narrative I can't make out anything else.

And I'm zooming in pretty far. Damn Brian's doctors writing.

Me either, other than P.I. (something) near the bottom.

I think I remember somebody saying "proud mary" was on that sheet...

2nd item under "Pleasure Island" could well be "Proud Mary."

3rd item is "Narrative 3 (something)"

Maybe BAD will be premiering some new material this summer!

You tire of User Names rather quickly, dont you?

Can I change mine just as often, please?

Billy's trademark is changing names... :hat

Last song on the list is "At the Hop"!  That sounds familiar.

Not all us think like you guys, so speak for yourself.

100% agreed.

There's also a PI Theme on that sheet, and at least one more Narrative...

Webster's? Surely the OED? ;)

I'll take it -- whatever BW dishes out along with whomever he chooses as contributors to his music.

Like Dennis said, and its hard to argue the point, Brian IS the Beach Boys.

Bombs Away!

http://www.azcentral.com/thingstodo/music/articles/20130415beach-boys-mike-love-interview-arizona.html?nclick_check=1

Q: So you would like to get together with Brian and work on new material?
 
Mike: If that could be done. Just Brian. Yeah. I would be open to that.

I did not mean to offend you, Sir, and I meant a serious amswer that -admittedly- sounds rude when read. I erased my original message already. Enough bitterness going on at this time on this board.

I see what you did there...  ;D

Typical "cousin Brian has people that keep him away from me" talk from Mike Love. I don't have a problem with ML doing a song with Brian but it sounds like he wants total input with Brian. Call me a "brianista" but Mike Love has an agenda with Brian.

Sounds from that interview that Mike wasn't at all impressed with That's Why God Made The Radio:

A: Well, I wasn’t consulted very much with that album. Brian and I had spoken about a year before we even got started with that album. He wanted to do some re-records of some of our favorite songs. And I was up for that. We mentioned a couple of songs to each other. But that never happened. Nor was I able to actually get in a room and write with Brian like I did back in the ’60s. So that was, to me, unfortunate.

On the other hand, he had some songs he had been working on for several years. Brian has done a lot of things as a solo artist over the past 10 or 15 years, but it was nice to get together and do something in the studio together for the first time in many years. It sounded great, reminded me of 1965 again. And Brian said that, too.

Q: So you would like to get together with Brian and work on new material?

A: If that could be done. Just Brian. Yeah. I would be open to that.

Q: “That’s Why God Made the Radio” sounds more like a Beach Boys album than a Brian solo album.

A: That’s because Alan is singing and I’m singing, and Bruce came up with his parts. So yeah, it does. Because it is (laughs). Anyway, it sounds like you’re hung up on that album. Or that tour.

Q: Well, it’s recent history.

A: Well, it debuted at No. 3. That’s not bad. But it didn’t stay up there very long. To have sustained success, like we’ve been known to do, you need a single that will chart and stay in the Top 20 or the Top 10 for three months. And that didn’t happen with this album.

"At the Hop" on the bottom of page. Hard to make the rest out, need higher res pic.

And pray tell, exactly how many times has Brian repeated in public his wish to continue with the band since that isolated example ?  I don't doubt he meant it, and believed it at that moment. Equally, I don't doubt he'd forgotten all about it a week later.  Come Grammy time, he was saying almost exactly the opposite. Brian may be many wonderful things, but Mr. Consistency he is not.

You take Brian for a fool, which is not. Before you say he is damaged, I will say he wrote FTTBA in 2011.

I have a serious question:  I know Mike has the exclusive license to the band's name for touring purposes but is there anything to prevent Brian from using the Beach Boys name for an album without Mike, provided Carl's estate sided with Brian and Al to outvote Mike three to one?  If that's the case, maybe we COULD get a new Beach Boys album.

I've tried to stay quiet but my take on the whole current situation with Mike hasn't changed since just after the release of the last album.  Yes, he was great on the last album and tour, and I still love the things I DO love about him but their respective roles are crystal clear: Mike is the man in charge onstage (in more ways than one), while Brian is in control in the studio.  At least, that's the way it should be.  For everyone asking why we now don't want Mike involved in a new album "all of the sudden", remember the fantastic last album we got was only accomplished by Brian going behind Mike's back and putting the album (and deal) together without him and presenting it to Mike, knowing he held the cards.  Mike's non-singing involvement on it was pretty much a charitable gesture on Brian's part and keep in mind that while fans and critics praised the album, Mike wasn't as enthusiastic (praising the harmonies but being way less supportive of the "artistic downer tracks" that we all loved) and was looking much more forward to their NEXT effort which he surmised would be more of an "actual group thing".  It was when I heard those comments that I gave up hope for a good follow up and took Andrew's stance that I'd rather the group go out on a high note (in the studio) than ruin their "final chapter" with a terrible follow up, made terrible by having too many cooks.  

Mike's wish for a follow up would be the equivalent of Brian wanting to doing a solo set on the last tour, similar to what Landy had him do on Beach Boys tours in the 80's.  Again, they each have their place where they're the man in change but Mike wants it all...or at least more control and input into Brian's area of expertise than Brian feels he deserves or is comfortable with.  I strongly believe that Mike finding out that wouldn't happen on any future recordings is what led Mike to make the final decision of going back to the pre-C50 touring plan.

Whatever.  Business as usual for the Boys.

This is, of course, purely my opinion, but...

"Pacific Ocean Blues"
"It's OK"

Granted, just the two.

You've patently not read very much - if anything - that I've written over the years for you to make such a laughable statement. Thanks - I've had a bit of a shitty day and needed a good chuckle.  :-D

Exactly, you don't get much pleasure out of the BBs at this point. You use the members who don't agree with you as your personal punching bag to deal with problems in your personal life.

Take it to PMs, both of you.

Okay, I will drop it.

I don't think it's the equivalent at all. It's not like Mike is suggesting that a bunch of songs that he wrote alone should make up a chunk of any album. He would just like collaboration. I can completely understand those that say that would be a bad idea (and if Brian suggested titles like Spring Vacation and Beaches in Mind again then it certainly would be) but Mike is entitled to his opinion.

Looking back now, TWGMTR was a weird production. Not many bands would make an album where one member (Brian) works on all of the songs with a hired hand (Jeff) and then replaces his vocals using the band members later. Even when Daybreak was chosen for inclusion there was no collaboration and they just used an old recording. I can understand why Mike would not want to feel like a guest vocalist on the stuff that they work on.

Wasn't It's OK written before Endless Summer came out though?
That said, Goin' On, Getcha Back and Isn't It Time are all perfectly serviceable lyrics, as are some of his unreleased solo bits.

Absolutely agreed. I thought the songs Mike co-wrote on the last album were (with the exception of Isn't It Time) pretty dire, but I don't think it's at all unreasonable for him to want to have some creative input into albums he works on.

Brian isn't a fool at all. He (generally) knows what he is doing when he talks to the media and often says things that are completely untrue when it suits him. Stuff that he has said about the end of the tour has been completely contradictory (I felt like I'd been fired/I didn't mind when Mike went back to touring with Bruce) and that has been the pattern for a long time. Just weeks before the C50 tour was announced he was claiming that he didn't want to work with Mike or The Beach Boys again.

I would have loved it if the C50 could have carried on forever but it was never going to be sustainable. Brian wouldn't have signed up for the 75 shows every year and if he had there wouldn't be any recording going on now anyway. It's great that Al is working with Brian in the studio and hopefully he can sing lead vocals on several songs.

OK.  The solo set example was an exaggeration but the point remains:  Mike = live show.  Brian = Studio.  So Mike "let" Brian include "Marcella" or whatever in the last tour's setlist.  So what.  Brian threw Mike the same sized bone by having him write song lyrics and include an old song of his on TWGMTR.  It doesn't change the fact that Brian respects Mike's position as the on stage "leader" while Mike isn't willing to let Brian have the same level of control inside HIS domain.


Now as far as that important question I asked: Does anyone know the answer???

Did you like 'easy money/ain't life funny/hey what's it to ya/hallelujah' better? How about the verses of 'Bill and Sue'?  Cause those were Brian's 8)

His domain?  :-D

Again I would say those are bad examples. Mike was in charge of the setlist but he actually was okay with Brian and Al singing plenty of rarities in the show and took on board many suggestions from them. I won't list them all. Brian and Al therefore both played a creative role in the live show.

I haven't seen Mike claiming that he would like to take over production duties but just that he would like to be a part of the creative process in the studio in terms of writing lyrics. Some may say that's a terrible idea but as he has taken on that role on the vast, vast majority of Beach Boys albums (yes, including some dire ones) then I think he is entitled to have an opinion.

All this studio activity, Mike commenting publicly about working with Brian, Al in the studio: what in the heck is this leading to? What is happening?

I totally agree.  He's entitled to his opinion but I and apparently Brian, don't agree with it.

As for him wanting to be part of the creative process in the studio, he was (certainly much more than Al, Bruce, and David, and more than just about anyone else not named Brian Wilson or Joe Thomas) but it wasn't enough, as evidenced by his words regarding that album and any possible future albums.

my god the man just cannot be satisfied or appreciative, can he? nothing will ever compare to the success of Kokomo, and Mike is going to keep reminding us of that. never mind that the music industry is a completely different beast these days.

Mike should have been let go 45 years ago, but better late than never. Brian can do so much better.

I think an album made with 3 original Beach Boys (BW, AJ, DM) would be just a legitimate as a tour with only one original Beach Boy (ML)...why can't Brian, Al and Dave make a Beach Boys album?  I'd miss Mike's part of the vocal blend (Bruce I don't care about so much), but it's not like Brian, Al and Dave aren't capable of carrying a band in the studio as much as Mike is on stage.

Mike's comment sounds pretty hypothetical. And he's clearly not working alone in a room with Brian on anything, so it's safe to say he's not interested or involved in whatever else is going on.

As for Brian and Al (and everyone) in the studio, it seems pretty clear.

-- We've had pics of Brian at Ocean Way in February and March too, so this isn't a short term project.

-- Given that it's at a full-blown studio (and not Your Place or Mine, or Scott's bedroom) one can surmise he already has a record deal.

-- Recall: Brian and Scott had several excellent songs that were left over from TLOS and writing sessions immediately afterward -- and that there was unreleased material from TWGMTR. BW clearly has available tunage.

-- All signs point to a new BW solo disc, possibly released this summer or fall.

Is that what anyone would really want? A Beach Boys album featuring two members of the group vocally (I can't imagine David would contribute much to the harmonies) and more bad blood and bad headlines. What would be the point?

They could also call it "The Beach Boys with Brian Wilson".

Peter Noone has a similar arrangement with Barry Whitwam the Hermit's original drummer.

What does it matter how many times he repeated his wishes in public. His public statements all expressed feeling "blindsided" disappointment and "kinda like being fired." nothing to the contrary. for you to say that he no doubt forgot all about it a week later is simply putting words in his mouth or thoughts in his brain, and comes off rather presumptuous and disrespectful.

the man founded the band with his family and friends and poured his heart and soul into the music. the Beach Boys is pretty much his life. why would you pretend to know what his true feelings are concerning the present and future of the band? oh because you pretend to know everything about this band and its principal members.

come Grammy time, Brian was not saying the opposite of what he originally stated. he never said he didn't want a reunion. he simply said that he doubted it would happen again. hmm...I wonder who gave him that notion?  

But we all know there would have been 3 million seller hits IF I HAD BEEN CONSULTED-is what he meant to say. I just vomited black bile over those comments. I guess he just can't hang on to that ego. Did he have his hat on during the interview?? :p

:woot :woot :woot :woot :woot :woot :woot :woot :woot :woot :woot :woot

Except BRI has licensed the name to Michael. You know...because fanboy idealism always trumps what the band thinks.

Nevertheless I'd had Wisden in mind…!

it amazes me how Mike has the cajones to sit and criticize everything from SMiLE and Friends and now TWGMTR, like he ever had something better to offer. isn't Mike's basic plan for success to just play the surf and car songs until another Kokomo comes along? and isn't it funny how Mike can slag on TWGMTR now, but he had no problem demanding an Executive Producer credit when it was released. what a joke.

i'm sure the reunion was healing for Brian on many levels. probably also a reality check that Mike is simply someone he can't work with creatively for whatever reasons. Hooray for a great reunion tour and album, for new Beach Boys songs and mostly for Brian's (and everyone else's) healing. I think Brian has the ability to accept the people and things he cannot change, and I'm glad he is moving on.      Again.

Can't wait to hear what's in store, and couldn't be happier that Al is involved on some level. Here's hoping for the rest of the My Life Suite, and the chance of hearing them perform it live this summer (since you-know-who is no longer writing the setlist.)  ;)

Well now suspect number 2 is captured....back to this

Yikes...sounds like you're suffering from calamity of the gallbladder. I hear eggplant helps.

Yeah, Brian doesn't get his butt kissed enough. It's always been a big problem.

Interesting that it seems Mike would have found it creatively preferable to re-record some of their favorite songs. Why do I get the feeling his list would probably start with "Kokomo". Honestly though, I wouldn't mind a project where they do a few old tunes and a few new ones too, or whatever. I just kinda feel Mike is obsessed with the past. It seems he wants to write with write with Brian like "in the '60s". Well maybe Brian doesn't wanna do it like that. And why act disappointed that the album came in at number three? I love a lot of the work Mike Love has done, but it is obvious that he has a massive ego and he loves tooting his own horn when it comes to his co-writes in the '60s and then "Kokomo". And pointing out that he was the lead singer on whatever songs. Why mention that in the interview? Even if a person didn't know who Mike Love was coming into the article, usually the article will cite the fact that he was the one of the lead singers of The Beach Boys!

And I just think it's a shame that he has to talk down what they were doing last year to rationalize why he's back with just Bruce now. Instead of sh*t-talking Brian, Al, Melinda, the group's latest album and tour, the Eagles, and whoever else he could just say he wanted to get back to his old setup because he's comfortable with it. Or even something like the what he wrote in that LA Times article or whatever. Instead it's the classic super creepy, egotistical Mike who preaches meditation and calls himself Mr. Positivity, yet always has to tear down his supposed friends and their work with underhanded comments. It's a shame.

Brian wanted to do old songs [Four Freshman?]. Mike wanted them to get in a room together and write new songs.

:thumbsup

Particularly solid points, Phoenix.

I think it kind of boils down to personal taste. I remember the tug-o-war when the album came out and some people were very solidly behind Beaches and Spring Vacation. Admittedly, those tunes kind of grew on me after awhile, but I just don't take them seriously at all. A little bit of candy in the middle of the album.

If you like that kind of stuff, you probably don't have a problem with a fully engaged Mike Love working, writing and creating with Brian Wilson. I do - Brian can do much MUCH better right now, because Mike has lost his creative capability. Done, finished. Ergo, no more Beach Boys...but that's okay because we've got some great Brian material around the corner. That gives me much to be excited about.

but what actually happened was we DID get an album of original material, some of it written very recently. Mike WAS given the opportunity to collaborate with Brian and he turned in Beaches in Mind and Spring Vacation. as for Mike not being able to get Brian alone in a room... maybe there's a reason for that. I don't know too many people who would want to be closed up in a room with the Lovester. do you?

Hell no, the lovester is a creep trapped in the past of 1964.

Thanks, I think.

I've liked "Spring Vacation" from the start but still haven't grown fond of "Beaches In Mind".  (I replace it and "Daybreak Over The Ocean" with "She Says That She Needs Me" and "South American" for what I feel is a smoother and improved playlist. :) )  I don't know if the bottom half of your comments were also directed at me.  If so, I think all these posts and posters may have left you confused because I agree with you about Mike. Who's to say he couldn't still write some great stuff?  The point is he has no interest in writing anything in the same style as "Kiss Me Baby", "The Warmth Of The Sun, "Big Sur", "All I Wanna Do", etc. and would rather keep rehashing his Summer In Paradise persona.  As I said, I think Mike is a great frontman for the kind of show that the Beach Boys put on but he's completely out of touch in terms of the Beach Boys' FULL legacy and definitely out of sync with everything Brian thinks their new material should sound like. 

That's why I posed the question no one's been able to answer: 

This guy reminds me of Mike.
http://youtu.be/39veqdHSG9k

His mindset isn't anything unique, it's just how old people in the industry think pop music is supposed to work. Nobody higher up has any regard for the artistic developments made since, oh, around 1965.

But it's no big problem for you to keep kissin mYke's behind every chance you get, right Cam? Huh? Huh? Got your tix for every M&B show this summer? Don't worry, you're in mYke's will. :p

It's been a tough week  - and trying to avoid the bitterness on this board myself, I have to say your reply was top-notch and appreciated. I posted too hastily my own reply where I could have added some humor instead, so I'm sorry for that tone as well.

One more thought on the series of photos: Do any of those folks look like they're thinking (or saying) "Gee, I wish Mike were here..."  :)

Let's just all agree that the Beach Boys suck and go home.

When was the last time Mike and Brian really collaborated on an entire album?  I'm thinking All Summer Long - and an excellent album it was.  Some might say Today, but most if not all of the songs were written and recorded (the tracks) while the BB were on the road, so Mike wrote some admittedly great lyrics but it wasn't a collaboration like with Asher or Parks where they were in on the songs from inception.

As for Brian having Jeff do vocals on tracks and replace them with the BB vocals later, he's done that for years, usually with his own vocals as guides for the Boys.  I don't see why Mike would object to that method now when he hasn't in the past, at least that we know about.

No problem Phoenix. We're in agreement on Mike. The bottom half of my comments were not directed to you - rather I had just read that recent Mike interview and his take on TWGMTR just fed my vitriol. He is who he is, and changing his attitude now would be like unringing a bell.

MIU.

I guess Mike's beef is that with a little more forward planning they could have taken the time to make a new Beach Boys album from the ground up with some real collaborating. Instead we had public statments from Brian up until the 11th hour that he had zero interest in working with The Beach Boys again, followed by a sudden 1800 turnaround. With a deadline looming the bulk of the tracks used were old Brian solo outtakes, which were redone with the guys adding vocals. This wasn't how exactly how Mike had envisioned a Beach Boys reunion. No chance to 'write hits with his cousin' here. Mike was looking for an "All Summer Long" setup and instead he largely got a "Pet Sounds" scenario. Here's my collaborator, here's the material, let's get to work.

As to the question of would a more Wilson/Love orientated tracklist would have resulted in a better album - let's be honest it could have gone either way. The results could have been horrendous or they could have been decent. For me TWGMTR sounds too much like a Brian Wilson solo album with 'guest vocals' by the BB's. I imagine that's what Mike hears when he listens to it.

One last point; if Mike really believes that The Beach Boys could have a new single sit in the top ten for over 20 weeks in this day and age then he really needs to adjust the strap on his baseball cap because it's obviously on too tight.

I'm not au fait with the small print of the Love License, but I'd say to do that, the whole license would need to be re-written, which would result in M&B not being able to tour as the BB, which would seriously damage the revenue stream. So, ask yourself - would, say, Carl's estate think "OK, the guys need to record an album without Mike as The Beach Boys, but that would stop my income of $xxx,xxx a year for a possible return of, say, $xx,xxx over a few weeks". Seriously, would YOU vote for that ?

Salient point - the others could called an EGM of BRI at any time over the last decade or more to address this (in the eyes of some fans) 'problem'. That they haven't should tell you all you need to know. M&B touring as the BB = guaranteed and substantial income. End of.

You could also add that as Brian hasn't made a grab to claim the licensing use of the name for Dave, Al and himself, that it just goes to show that Brian's interest in being a Beach Boy again was, as always, fleeting.

Dudes, Brian's interest in TOURING is fleeting. Not The Beach Boys. Why does everyone think he has to play 300 nights a year to really qualify?

Regardless of our opinions, Brian wanted to do old stuff and Mike wanted to write new stuff. We will have to deal with it.

Right, there is too much pointing out reality about Mike. It's always been a big problem.

Was California Myth updated and republished? How could I have missed that one?

I believe the term for this kind of consistent behavior is "pathological". Iffn I didn't know better, I'd wager the poster was somewhere between 12 and 15 - as indeed they are, in terms of emotional and intellectual development. Very sad.

You probably had better things to be doing in 1985.

Rider, in my opinon you need to either tell this story publically or stop referring to it.  Cheers.

I have no story about Mike's voice being better preserved than Brians', nor do I have a story as to why Mike might or might not want to make another Beach Boys album.

Think I covered all your quotes.  A little long in the publically today Cam?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNsulymGkOE
Back to Mike bashing.  Even Blondie Chaplin seems to have less than a high opinion of Mike. 

Yep, I quoted the wrong post. This story is what I was referring to.

Al doesn't have anything to do with Brian's project. Those photos are Al still trying to get Brian to record "Waves of Love". They didn't put up the one of Al being escorted from the building.

Why Cam, I've already PM'd you about it several times.  As have I anyone who has written me about it.

But not god enough for you?

I am surprised you want to publicly soil the reputation of your idol.

Again, I respectfully encourage you to post the story or stop referring to it.

I know the story, it really speaks to ML's character.

Not gonna happen and that's an idiotic suggestion Cam. My opinion is mine to express as I please.  I don't ask you to stop your Mike Love hero worship now do I?

In fact,  please do tell us how much you luv the Lovester and how, when you met him, he autographed your "Made in Paradise" CD.

I'm sure.  ::)

Just wondering why the yet-again renewed wave of anti-Mhrikste…

Not sure, I posted several complimentary remarks.

But now that we are at it, thought I'd re-post Mike's Eugene rant from the C50.  Pissed off alot of Oregon Duck fans and made a fool out of himself. You can see the band is embarrassed by Mr. Positivity.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbdNKf2S2t0&feature=channel&list=UL

You may do as you wish. Your opinion is your opinion, your Mike story is your opinion as I understood it.

My opinion is based on personal interaction and real life experience. That and all my observations of him and the band over the years.
I grew up in Redondo Beach and the Beach Boys were from our area, they were our band.  I used to play Stan Love in pick-up basketball.

Anyway, here is a Mike Love hate blog that bashers  can read while we be get back to Brian's new music news.
http://manvsclown.wordpress.com/2006/07/21/why-i-hate-mike-love/

Included are comments by Mike's brother Steve who apparently does not like the brother Lovester either.

For a teaser, here is Mike's brother Steve talking about Mike,

 "Steve Love on November 28, 2012 said:

People:

I notice that the traffic on this blog has been pretty light of late. I thought there would be an upsurge in activity after the news broke that Mike has fired Brian, Alan and David Marks and has elected to go forward with just Bruce and his backup band. I see this as a blatant money grab. Mike is an exceedingly greedy person and is not into sharing the concert tour revenue pie with the others. Also, I heard through the grapevine that Mike did not like touring with Brian because while Mike prances around onstage and does his peacock thing, Brian sits at his piano in an oftentimes zombie-like state while Mike is doing the heavy lifting performance-wise and this irks the heck out of Mike. The fact of the matter is that no matter what Mike does he is never going to get the love and adulation from the audiences that our super-talented cousin Brian receives by merely showing up."

and this is a beauty:

"Steve Love on September 29, 2012 said:

I cannot disagree with you, Statto. He is a good frontman – I’ve always said that – but a huge disappointment as a person. I know him better than most and I can vouch that the vitriol is warranted. He thinks he is so enlightened because he practices TM. He failed to grasp the “right action” aspect of the Eastern religious teachings. Huge hypocrite, that guy.

Fair enough, and I'm not saying they are untrue I don't know, but the accusations in the story are not something you witnessed.

I just had a look on said blog and I have never seen so many retards post on one site before.

Could the last six pages or so of posts be moved to a separate "lol mike love sucks" thread?  I'd hate for, you know, actual "studio news" to slip through the cracks and confuse everyone.

Thanks for the reply, Andrew.  I agree with you in regards to the situation presented so I'm sure Carl's estate would too (since they'd stand to make much more from the standing agreement than I).  I just thought Mike might only hold the license for touring/personal appearances and the name might be a separate entity in regards to recording.  If that's the case, the representative from Carl's estate would more than likely side with Brian and Al, as they would stand to make "free" money from a new "Beach Boys" album, that was being kept off the table from Mike non-participation.  Either way, I appreciate the logical insight.

Really, why would they vote Mike out regardless of how much he made or even cost? If they had grounds to vote anybody out it would be Al, yet there he is in reunion and album.

Mike Love did Summer In Paradise without Brian Wilson, right? so why the opposite would be impossible or has to be "people hatin' Mike Love"?
i don't see the problem with doing that.. i could see an inspired album à la That Lucky Old Sun with some songs from the others thrown in there, Al still has a great voice and can write some lovely stuff as he did over the decades in the Beach Boys but even on his solo album, if i remember correctly, and David seems to have some cool songs here and there, i liked that one he tried to put on That's Why God Made The Radio.

And if the rest comes in, well i don't mind if Mike Love brings a nice song like Daybreak and if Bruce has a nice ballad to offer...

Every thread no matter what the subject seems to turn into a "Mike Love sucks" thread these days, as sure as day follows night.

Yeah it's getting pretty tired now. Let's start talking about how Much Bruce sucks.

let cabinesencedude start bruce hate  ;D

OMG you said something that wasn't just a smiley.

It really is 420  :smokin

Well, there was this little thing called Pet Sounds...

Cheers,
Jon Blum

Shut Up he said.

You're assuming a single comment from Mike in an interview is the correct story, number one. For all we know, Brian may have been trying to reel him in. We do know from Joe Thomas's interviews on the subject that Brian's long-term aim was creating a Beach Boys album of all-original material, with Summer's Gone as the last track.

Regardless, I don't know why the actual outcome -- all-new material -- is irrelevant to discussion. Brian says many different things. What he ends up doing is what we can actually listen to and judge. And in this case, he released an album of previously unheard material. (Except for Mike's song, which was more than a decade several decades old.)

I assuming only what the interview said which is what the previous statement was about: the comments in a single interview.

Don't confuse Brian's public statements with what he and Mike were talking about behind the scenes.  All that time Brian was saying he wasn't interested -- he was lying to hide their plans.  Remember when he said that he was glad they'd finally announced it cause it was getting harder and harder to make stuff up?

Cheers,
Jon Blum

Just wanna say?  1) If we get a new album from Brian at this point, it's a bonus.  2) If it's got Al (and possibly Dave) on it, it's even more of a bonus.  3) If the boys bury the hatchet and put out another Radio-standard album, that's even bigger -- but not being 3) is not a reason to hate on 2) or 1)...

Cheers,
Jon Blum

By the same band if I recall correctly...

Well, nothing happens in a vacuum ya know. Read the AZ Central short interview - funny how Michael was so sensitive about the emphasis on the C50 lineup, as in - 'you seem really hung up on that record'. And at Sea World, the pretty young thing interviewing Bruce was corrected by him - 'we ARE the Beach Boys!' Guys seem pretty sensitive about that, ya notice? They know.

It's just a pile of merda. Cam and Andrew, feel free to apply lipstick to a pig...it is what it is.

Keep on keepin' on OSD. If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it's an Oregon Duck.

Bring on the Brian solo record. And if Mike sings on it, give him his lyric, record his part, and then show him the way right outside the damn studio. And that goes double for Bruce.

Logical, flawlessly logical, J Blum, and the Professor tells me that he agrees. Hope and dreams should never lead to hate, though can can lead to degrees of disappointment. Frankly I can't imagine Al sitting there without telling Brian, "let's call Mike and see what we can work out"; of course they are thinking about this and acting on it it some way. They know the significance of being together and of putting that BB name on an album. No guarantee that they can or will, but Mike will not say no if asked to write, sing, and be there with his brothers, as long as there is a meaningful role for him as he sees it.

And once again, say what you will of SV, BIM, and IIT? , and DBOTO--the Mike songs on Radio--but I never tire of them, except the old Jeff bridge--, and they make a powerful soundtrack for cruising the scene and beach in LA. Don't knock it until you have heard these songs on PCH with the wind in your hair and the lonely sea below.

More BB is still my focus and my one desire. The other options?  Of course I will cherish them but as something different.

Kind of sad that people spend more time writing posts about hating Mike than they do about Brian's new project.

Mike can undoubtedly be a dick at times but why people waste their time worrying about that is beyond me. I'm guessing he doesn't spend his time worrying about what a few people on here are typing and would rather be out singing, screwing and making money which is a more sensible option when you think about it.

Deal, you keep concocting the pig and Andrew and I will put the lipstick to it.

Doo Dah, you are the man!  Busted me up this morning.  :lol

It does because it's a hoot.  After all, Jon Stebbins The Beach Boys FAQ even has a chapter entitled “The Fun Of Hating Mike Love.”

I'm sure that the Lovester is just overcome with grief at the nonsensical ramblings of a bunch of Brianistas on the internet. Keep on keepin' on. :P

Nonsensical  :lol @@#$%HFHDLSDFHJL!!!!!

Maybe Cam can save you a seat on his coast to coast pilgrimage to this summer's Mike and Bruce tour. As for me, I'm gonna dig on B-A-D in Pittsburgh in July. Cause I have taste.  :hat

That's Dennisista to you.

Seriously,  despite all efforts to  rewrite history, the Beach Boys were the sum of it's whole. They were not a band which was all about it's genius lead singer/front man.

No one's saying anything about them being all about their "genius frontman", and I doubt anyone would deny that the band was and is bigger than any one man, except for Brianistas.

Me too, but I tend to be leery of any story that has a single source, which source being biased against the subject to boot.

Difference being, that was written by a pukka journalist with no ax to grind who had done some real research on the subject and presented the facts with an even hand.

Not really, Mike has a reputation and he lived up to it when met surfrider.

You were there ? You can confirm ?

It's really get sad when they are reduced to attempts to impeach the character of the messenger. This ain't my first Mike-bashing rodeo.

Well, there is no doubt that Brian without Mike would have been quite successful.  Mike without Brian would be selling BMWs in La Habra

Cam, it was a reference to OSD's suggestion you attend all of this year's M&B shows. That's the reference. A take off on that.

Back to topic, I wonder who is driving the drip-drip-drip of photos/information on these sessions. It certainly fires up the fan base and leads to wild speculation. Which is why we speculate upon the elephant in the room, Mike.

I apologize to you then.

You'd better be careful when it comes to pictures of Brian. You never know who might not want you looking at them!

That makes atleast one journalist with no axe to grind on the board.

You shouldn't use Hawaiian when you don't know what it really means. (cause you really just insulted Jon).

Maybe it is an album for Don Was which Brian is producing.

Maybe the photos are all staged, and no-one's recording anything.

Maybe we're all an imaginary tableau in an autistic boy's snowglobe?

And you should try not to make yourself look like an even bigger dweeb by taking issue with me for something I've not done. I didn't use any Hawaiian words at all in that post. "Pukka" comes from the Hindi and literally means "cooked" or "ripe", but in UK argot it means "genuine", or sometimes "very good".  ;D

If that were the case, I would really @#$% with the formula and invite Pete Townsend, Glenn Danzig, and Lemmy into the studio for a quick smile-n-snap. That'll get 'em talkin' on the message boards...

Whatva wonderful guy AGD. Never found a slur you weren't happy to hurl at someone. It's getting quite sad to watch.

Hindu, that's a great journalistic reference! Living in England for 2 1/2 years and a British wife, never heard that word uttered. In Hawaii, most days. Means small opening, butthole in slang.

It's used very often in the U.K. and is even the brand name for a successful pie company. Surely when seeing a word that you don't know posted by a Briton your first thought should be, 'must be a British English word I'm not familiar with'. For you to immediately assume it to be badly used Hawaiian is hilarious but barking.  :-D

Everyone bitching in this thread at each other...take it to PMs. NOW.

I am still waiting for an apology from your last embarrassing and erroneous assault on me. I suggest if you can't act without hurling insults and name calling, you need to reel it in and turn away from the keyboard.

I PM AGDid and he responded by posting that I was a  dweeb, among other things. I think if you started banning people for personal insults and attacks this kind of thing would stop rather quickly.

Surely if people simply talked about the topic in question it would be better.

Let's hope that the box set tracklisting is announced soon as it should stop all of the petty bickering...for a couple of days at least. ;)

I suddenly really fancy a steak and kidney Pukka Pie.

Relic of empire, along with bungalow, jodhpurs and pyjamas. Comes from having a reasonable lexicon and wide general knowledge.

Can I just clarify, when you say Pukka Pie are you speaking English? Or is this Hawaiian and you fancy a butthole pie? It's so easy to get the two mixed up...  ;)

The pies probably do contain anus, along with eyeballs, feet, beaks etc.

I look forward to these kind of unique word stylings in your next published work. Which is?

You forgot the all important horse tranquilizer. Doesn't taste the same without that.  :-D

(http://www.pukkapies.co.uk/images/50yearsPageHeader.jpg)

Speak for yourself dude.  ;D ;D

I'm craving some cream tea right about now.

I wondered why those two Hawaiian guys I saw in town were doubled over with laughter outside the pie shop.

Like my wife, who's from South Africa couldn't believe we were driving around in a car called a Punta, which translates as c*nt in Afrikaans

Yes, England does have some good food.

Pies just ain't one of them!

Quit trying to pick a fight with me. How much does Mike and Bruce pay you?

And I wondered why the English tourist walked out of the Hawaiian pie shop with tears in his eyes.

English words that you should think twice about before speaking them in other countries.

Fag.
Pukka.
Punta.

Can I borrow your rubber?

Derailed? This thread is a train wreck

But that's what he does best, man. It's a childhood issue from which he can not escape, thus his petulant, insolate behavior on this and the other boards he posts on. When you study at the feet of mYke luHv this is what you get. ::)

And when in England Yanks need to be careful in holding up fingers to order two pints.

Only pies you'll find in Hawaii are  the sweet round ones. Now Malasadas, oh yeah.

I'm so glad I'm not one of the admin on this board...

Most threads always break down. We don't have any info as to what Brian is really up to. Those that know who are on the board won't tell us.

Besides, Brian is in Vegas at Camp. Maybe we will get more photos next week.

I'm not talking about the thread breaking down...

I'm talking about the admin asking people to take it to PMs and certain children continuing to try to disrupt class.  :)

Thought it had gone to pukka pies?

There's always one though isn't there...

It was the "bitching at each other" that was asked to be taken to PM's. Humour was deployed and saved the day, but I'm, afraid the thread was destroyed in the process.

I don't find the arguing particularly productive, especially because everyone is getting so irritated that it becomes harder and harder to empathize with other points of view. I mean, on one hand Mike had this coming, because he did, by multiple accounts (namely one Brian Wilson and one Jon Stebbins), break up the reunited Beach Boys. I think the folks who are rushing to Mike's defense have a difficult time dealing with this, so the preferred tactic is ignoring its existence or throwing out irrelevant details (so Brian might not have done all the shows -- so what?).

On the other hand, this was Mike's right, and he certainly didn't owe anyone anything after gamely going through the album recording, promotion and an extensive tour. And no one can accuse him of phoning it in over the last year. Anyone who saw the C50 shows recognized that Mike was still a peerless front man. Cheesy, corny, yet unarguably compelling. I think those who rush to condemn Mike -- and I've done my share of it over the years -- have a difficult time acknowledging his talents, so they likewise try to ignore their existence or throw out irrelevant details (who cares about Bruce's clapping?).

Regardless, everyone in the band seems reasonably happy now, so perhaps its best for us all to accept that what happened happened, that the album and tour were excellent, and allow ourselves to be delighted and surprised by whatever happens next.

Well said!

Good post and I agree with many of the things that you said but...

I don't think it is a matter of ignoring things. Yes, the C50 could have continued for longer and Mike decided he didn't want to do that. I don't think anyone is denying it. However, it was never going to last forever and I think it's a miracle it went as well as it did. Everybody walked on eggshells for one year and compromised but they were never going to do that eternally.

I'm not sure how Brian not doing all of the shows could be described as 'irrelevant'. If Brian had wanted to work in the studio with Jeff and other band members then they wouldn't have been available for touring. As Mike likes playing a hundred shows a year that would have been a problem. Even if Brian had used other musicians in the studio, I think the least likely scenario of all this year would have been Mike and the other guys going out on tour with Brian's band but without Brian. That was never going to happen.

I agree absolutely about accepting what happened happened and enjoying future projects though.

I don't we have a problem with something that didn't happen.

Was there any true indication that Brian wasn't going to do all of the shows, as in theoretical future reunion dates? I don't know if I missed something regarding that. I know Love said in his statement to the LA Times that initially Brian was only going to join in on a handfull of dates, but that idea seemed to go by the wayside pretty quickly. He did all 74 shows with the band, never missed one. I don't think they would set up a longer "reunion" tour than what Brian could do, which does of course lead us back to another of many reasons Love probably wouldn't be as amenable, because he wouldn't want to only continue to do 30 or 50 or probably even only 75 shows per year. He would want to do more, and more cheaply, etc.

Very well said as always. Those who have lamented Mike ending more reunion possibilities are doing just that, lamenting. At some point, our lamenting does become rather unproductive and doesn't further a conversation as much. But in the world of the BB's where we *still* lament so many things that *could* have happened ("Smile", better setlists, a bazillion tracks that they never released, Beach Boys Central website, Adult Child, Dennis' solo career, and the list goes on and on), I've simply been continually surprised at the number of fans who have been sort of like "Meh, Mike did what he was contractually obligated to do, give the guy a break" when it comes to the reunion.

It's in large part *because* of that that we're saying that, though. Last year they actually managed a base level of competence and acting like sensible human beings for the first time in, what, thirty years? Forty? Get together, make a decent album, promote it properly, do a good tour with a wonderful backing band, playing interesting sets, have no public rows, everyone shows up sober and actually enthusiastic about their parts...
Realistically, how long was that going to last?

The fact that it ended when it was supposed to end rather than three months early was, in itself, a minor miracle. They all did what they said they were going to do, and compared to what we've been trained to expect, basic professionalism is cause for celebration.

I think that all makes sense. Situationally, logically, it is indeed a marvel that the thing happened as well as it did. But it still seems like it wasn't just fate or some catastrophic thing that made it stop. It had a lot of momentum and at least three of the guys enthusiastic, with more offers for shows, etc., and then one ingredient made the whole thing end. I'm not big on the "it could have been worse" angle in this case, because the reunion tour was SO far beyond what I expected that it deserved to continue for awhile.

Those posts from Howie Edelson back around the end of the tour were so on the spot, particularly this one from October:

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,14421.msg324803.html#msg324803

That stuff needs to remembered. Maybe not continually said anymore, as the points have been made numerous times, but this statement, coming from someone who has actually covered these guys and spoken to them, specifically even spoken to Mike Love about the future of the reunion, is a statement that is both apt and carries a lot of weight to me. :)

This is a great post.

Brian is recording a new record. Mike doesn't belong on it..we're back to 2008. Let's move on.

You might be shocked at this given our past exchanges, but THIS is one of the best posts I've ever read on this board. Seriously. Bravo. You said it better than I could have.

.

Lost in pages of garbage was the fact that BRIAN IS RECORDING A NEW ALBUM, and has some topnotch people guesting on it. Those who think it's just going to be another GIOMH are forgetting the fact that except Al the guests are instrumentalists. I noticed in the pictures that when Brian smiles, it looks like he's got his swagger back. I noticed it at times throughout the C50 tour, and it looks like it is going to continue.

Brian seems as confident as his was back in 66. Obviously it's hard to tell but the pictures of him in the studio don't seem forced or staged, he seems genuinely relaxed.

On a bad day Brian can record an incredible vocal. If he's giving this record his all we're in for a treat.

I just have this feeling that Brian's vocals will be incredible.

Brian's vocals on "Listen to me" the Buddy Holly tribute are absolutely incredible and he probably recorded that song half asleep.

He's a natural behind the mic but something special happens when he actually cares about the material.

That's one of my favorite modern day vocals by Brian

To be fair, Billy, a new album hasn't been confirmed. I think it's more likely than not, but it's not like BW/BB projects always go according to plan.

I don't think Mike has ever written lyrics that bad - but I've not listened to his solo work.

Yes, Mike is responsible for the Beach Boys not continuing as they did during the C50 tour. That's sad, but if there were things that bugged him there and he likes to tour with just his band and Bruce, he has the right to do so even if we - including me - don't want that. That's no reason to hate him so passionately though IMHO.

And I'm happy to see Brian so happy in the studio. Reminds me of the pre-SMiLE Brian! :)

Sure did-thanks for the spell check! ;D

Pretty much perfectly said.

Seriously Odd Suffer Dud, the last XXX posts from you have added nothing helpful or informative to the rest of us that watch this board to get updates and news regarding developments of the BB. You just constantly attack members of the group and posters that provide some information. We all know what you think about certain members of the group and some posters that don't attack you but then you feel obligated or addicted to attack them. You don't need to constantly reiterate your positions. Frankly, your posts are tiresome. Perhaps others here will agree. If you don't have anyhting to add, please just refrain form posting. Your just boring...and old!  I apologize to the rest of the board about this post but, really, it needs to be said so that this board remains a place to get information and have intelligent discussion and contributions about a variety of topics that are about a music group that we are interested in.

Damn right.  I would buy that album in a heartbeat.

Do we really know OSD is old? And how old is old?  I think his posts are avante garde funny. He parodies parody. Atleast they are short. Just skip them if ya don't like um.

Boring,? Well maybe. Mine, extremely so, Guilty!

I don't doubt that in the studio Brian can turn in fine vocal performances and Al will still sound superb. With the archive releases also coming up it is another good year to be a fan. Now if either faction could arrange a U.K. gig that wasn't reserved for posh tossbags then things would be perfect. :)

I agree with those who have said Brian looks very confident and "with it" in these photos, but it's easy enough to pick the best 5 photos out of a crop of 500 bad ones. I'd kill to see some real video footage of Brian working in the studio. Honestly, if we learned didn't contribute too much or anything, I'd be a bit disappointed, sure, but definitely not angry, I know allowances have to be made for Brian considering his condition, I'm just genuinely curious to observe first hand how many cylinders the dude's firing on.

Yes - he's older than me, according to one post of his. I'm 57.

If this new album ends up actually being a reworking of some older material, I'm hoping it'll be "Adult/Child" rather than "Love You"

Though, I guess I can kind of understand Brian's handlers wanting to steer him away from an album that would involve him recording Shortenin' Bread. :lol

The two best songs from Adult/Child are already widely available and I'm not sure how much point there would be in revisiting the other stuff. Hey Little Tomboy, Everybody Wants to Live, H.E.L.P. is on the Way etc. don't deserve to be reworked imo. If they include a couple of songs on the box set then that would be enough.

I hope they won't go back to re-record any old stuff as that has happened often enough on IJWMFTT, Imagination, Postcards From California etc.

57 years young!

Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn what you think. Reading things you don't like is kinda a waste of time, right. C'mon, BBU, please tell me you're not that dumb. Psst-it's a message board, get it? :smokin

This board will literally implode if Brian is recording Pleasure Island..

I'm very excited  ;D

I really hope Brian brings in Mike for a song. According to this interview, Mikes wants to work with just Brian.
http://www.azcentral.com/thingstodo/music/articles/20130415beach-boys-mike-love-interview-arizona.html

No doubt, but hey it is a discussion forum, right?

I just keep checking for any new developments, laugh at some of the impromptu humor...

Most likely someone will post a new thread if there is breaking news anyway and this thread can be laid to rest  ;)

Can't wait til a pic appears on facebook tomorrow of Mike, Al and Bri' smiling at the mic together… geez, some folk on this board will have to dry their tears and go off be fans of One Direction or somethin' else less controversial…


;D

Does anyone know when Brian first started mentioning "Pleasure Island" in interviews?

I think about 2008. Definitely post-TLOS. I interviewed Scotty in January 2009 and the title was in common usage then (he wasn't thrilled about it).

I'm not surprised. It sounds like the title of a porn movie and, with that in mind, maybe they should record Heavenly Bodies for it as it would be a perfect fit.

Actually, ricin is an extract of the castor bean. Very bad stuff.

The name is classic Brian, hope it doesn't change.

(http://www.ibiza-spotlight.com/image/night/club_reviews/2008/pleasure_island/Pleasure_island_cover.jpg)

Pleasure Island, indeed.

I knew that... actually my current username is a play on 'rice and beans' as well. I enjoy puns.:lol

 :lol

Good one Billy!   :lol

In fairness, I thought that remake of "Honkin' Down the Highway" was pretty good.

Scotty said pretty much exactly that.  ;D

Maybe Brian could also include Rollin' Up to Heaven...  ;D

That's a pun instead of a gran slam.

Well, it doesn't matter if he's old, that's a reproach that is out of place. I agree his recent posts border on trolling, his attitude is a bit chyldish ;), but as the other poster suggested, you can just ignore his posts.

Ah, the old "well just ignore his posts"... actually, in an earlier incarnation of this forum, we did have an 'ignore' function, and a splendid thing it was: can we have it back, please ?  However, such is the structure of this board that ignoring is next to impossible, unless one has superhuman reactions and can see through your eyelids. Plus, I tend to extend everyone here the basic courtesy of reading all the posts in the threads that take my fancy, as there may be something germane therein. I know in the case of the infantile mis-speller this is increasingly unlikely, but you never know. Further, if I'm having a bad day, I like to read his moronic drool, as it makes me realise that at least I have a functioning brain and possess a sense of humor. Phil Cohen has much the same effect, only with better grammar.

"ignore" like in "don't feed the troll"...

...sung to the melody of "Don't fight the sea"

 ;D

I get the feeling OSD is just play acting, much as I think you are Andrew with this whole condescending thing you have going on. And its swings and roundabouts, as I find many of your posts as lot more offensive than his!

However.......

I have a sneaking suspicion you're both actually very nice people in the real world.

Nope, I really am that condescending.  ;D

I just don't get it why you keep just trying to autodisappoint yourself by saying it will be a remake of such or such older material, is that a way of thinking to then get excited about something new? cause it has been said, clearly said, it's new song, it doesn't get more clear than that.

The problem lies in text, and no amount of emoticons can help this. If I met you in real life and you were jokingly condescending to me, I'd be able to read the signs and body language. Most of the rows on this or any other forum begin with misunderstandings. If you acted like you did on here in real life, towards people you didn't know, you'd have probably been stabbed down a dark alley by now. So no, you're not like this in real life. Nothing wrong with any of that. Its the internet.

I think people make the mistake on here of taking OSD seriously. He's playing a vital role, that of the token ML hater. Without him, the current trend of the Mike Love Lovefest would go unchecked. OSD's not trolling, he's simply reminding us that Mike's a controversial figure. The Beach Boys have the fans they deserve, they're a peculiar bunch of people.

Bravo, Stephen. The board was a very different place opinions-wise when OSD was banned.

I disagree with both of these opinions, but I respect them anyway as they are submitted in a civil way. (If "civil" is the right word.)

Civil is my middle name.

Please tell me your real last name is 'Wright'

Yes, and I've a brother named Orville, who wished he could fly.........

Just thinking out loud here...About the most recent projects, there were a few points made about Brian wanting to re-do or remake "old" material, I assume that was along the lines of the Do It Again remake, or revisit some old songs he (or they) had on the shelf from previous years, where Mike in contrast wanted something "new" instead.

To make a joke on another thread, I actually searched for the "Problem Child" single looking for cover art, and decided to take a fresh listen too. I won't go into details, but I think most could guess my opinion of that track.

Which got me thinking out loud here: When left to - let's put this delicately - the "Mike" direction of the band's releases over the past, say, 30 years or so when Brian was not as actively involved, was there anything "new" released which was noteworthy or even somewhat respectful of the legacy of this incredible band? It's like shooting fish in a barrel, in a way, but "Problem Child", "Wipe Out (feat. The Fat Boys)", the NASCAR album, the country album (which had some decent cuts but overall didn't do much), Summer In Paradise, Still Cruisin, the Baywatch tie-ins,...etc. Apart from Kokomo which was a hit and is a memorable single in retrospect, what kind of "new" material added to the incredible legacy of this band? What was successful where fans would want to hear more of it at live shows, for example? Apart from the band doing "Summer In Paradise" on stage and of course Kokomo, the answer is little or none.

I'm not talking relativity here, where we now have to list the missteps and duds from Brian's past 30 years (and there are more than a few of note) to even things out, but if the prospect of doing a new BB's album involves the same sort of misguided trend-driven yet late-to-the-party approach to making a "current" record like "Problem Child" or "Wipe Out", wouldn't it have been viable to just do remakes of classics or older shelved songs rather than try to write something in an attempt to appeal to a current trend?

I think avoiding the effort to deliberately try to release a "current" or trendy sounding song or album was what put TTGMTR above the rest, apart from having that many more band members involved. Is there any trace of them trying to be modern or trendy on the latest album? Are there any dubstep-friendly bass-drops, are there beats taken from hip-hop or modern R&B or other nods to current trends or styles? Of course not, in fact the best of the songs on the album are unique, and quirky enough to appeal to the people who enjoy their music.

On the other hand, that current interview with Mike had him suggesting the need for a "hit single" or whatever it was he said, and *right there* is what got them into trouble since the 80's as that mentality prevailed.

Would you recommend any of those attempts at a "hit single" since the 80's like "Problem Child" to someone else who hasn't heard them? So when the meetings and discussions and debates over what the new BB's project would be were in full force, could something like revisiting the older material have looked more attractive than trying to do another attempt to get on modern radio, which is a rather pointless effort to begin with?

I am interested in why you chose Problem Child as the example? It may have the "current" sound that you speak of, but it was not recorded specifically to be released as a hit, but rather as a theme song for a movie.

I listed more than one example, in the third paragraph of the post. I thought I covered all the album/single bases without listing things we as fans already know. "Problem Child" just happened to be the one I listened to fresh just last night as I was posting a joke in another thread. 

And, it is wrong to think that a theme song for a movie is not designed, created, and released to tie-in to promoting that movie by also becoming a "hit" on radio, or at that time MTV, etc. The video for Problem Child features the kid from the movie pranking the Beach Boys throughout the video, along with clips from the film itself. Oh, and there is also the obligatory shots of Mike pretending to blow a sax solo, as he seems to have done in quite a few videos from this era.

Tell me the producers of a film are going to demand anything less from a band contracted to record theme song than the hope for something like Rocky or Ghostbusters or Live And Let Die or any of the other big-hit theme songs that were written to both promote the movie and become a hit so the public turns on the radio, hears "Who ya gonna call...GHOSTBUSTERS!", or "Everybody's talkin' at me..." and thinks about seeing the film?

Problem Child just happened to be the one most fresh in my mind today. I'm having a hard time getting the background vocals saying "na-na, naa naa-naaaa" like a spoiled little brat would do out of my mind.  ;D  Great arrangement, that one...

Great posts gf, really nails the mindset of the ML-era BBs. I listened to "make it big" the other day and was struck by how goofy the BBs sounded trying to be like "Electric Light Orchestra.

I think you know the answer to the questions that you're asking but the 30 years that you mention is inaccurate. From 1998 onwards they were only a touring group (NASCAR isn't credited to The Beach Boys) so what we are really talking about is 1986 to 1996.

I don't think it was the need for a hit single that got them into trouble at this time. It was that they only had original members left and they weren't capable of making a decent group album in the style of Holland as Carl himself admitted. Mike therefore did what he could to keep them in the public eye and they got lucky with Wipeout and Kokomo.

Re: The line in bold... 

The impression I got from Mike in that most recent interview posted here is that the lack of and the need for (i.e. the 'importance' of) a hit single seems to be where Mike himself is directing some of his Monday-Morning-Quarterbacking toward the TTGMTR album, at least in that interview.

It's a difference of opinion, I suppose, but the way this era of the band seemed to be chasing something which would get played on the radio after the success of the Kokomo-Cocktail film promotional tie-in (actually going back to the BB '85 album), and failing miserably at the majority of attempts to the point of embarrassment seems to be the exact same thing Mike appears to be saying they didn't do and perhaps should have done for the TTGMTR album last year, maybe even looking ahead in 2013 to adapting that same strategy since his opinion seems to be TTGMTR needed the all-important hit single. Or some new soundtrack song and tie-in, whatever the case.

It just doesn't seem to add up, at least to me.

Hav to admit Gf that Rock and Roll To The Rescue is one tune from that era that I do like. Otherwise, your post is right on the money!

I want to add something else to clarify a bit more. This is the part of Mike's recent interview that raised an eyebrow:

Q: Well, it’s recent history.

A: Well, it debuted at No. 3. That’s not bad. But it didn’t stay up there very long. To have sustained success, like we’ve been known to do, you need a single that will chart and stay in the Top 20 or the Top 10 for three months. And that didn’t happen with this album.

Q: Do you have a favorite era of the Beach Boys?

A: Well, yeah. I mean, “California Girls,” I wrote the words in the hallway while Brian was working on the track with the Wrecking Crew, this really great group of musicians in LA. I wrote the words to “Good Vibrations” on the way to the studio when he finally decided what was going to be the track for the single. So, yeah, I had a really good time back in the ’60s co-writing a bunch of great songs.

This was said after he says he wasn't consulted much on the TTGMTR album.

My issue is: What the heck is he referring to, exactly? Doesn't it seem to be a classic case of a "straw man" argument, referring to that elusive single that will "stay on the charts" for months?

Apart from Kokomo, which did catch the public's attention and which was also plugged into the promotional machine behind a major film featuring Tom Cruise, what exactly is Mike either referring to or comparing TTGMTR to in light of the band's track record on the charts from these past 30 years or more? In other words, what kind of success is he referring to after 1966 that would make a record which debuts at #3 on the charts pale in comparison to his mindset which described the album charting *at all*, never mind at #3, as "not bad"?

It's just my opinion, of course, but saying that he wasn't consulted much on the album, then saying a Beach Boys debut at #3 in the musical climate of 2012 is "not bad" seems somewhat petty, if not bordering on sour grapes in a way. And again, what or where is he comparing that album to and with, and why is he doing this, considering the track record of Beach Boys albums and singles since the 1980's when we can all but pinpoint where and why certain career decisions were being made?

At least the interviewer didn't bring up the Smile box set.  ;D

You are aware that OSD pulls this same garbage on other music boards too and that it's not just soley for the 'entertainment' of posters here?

God bless OSD and AGD.
Yin and Yang.

I think that depends on the way that it was said. A person could say, 'number 3 is not bad' meaning that it is impressive. Or they could say, 'number 3 is not bad' meaning that it is average...

While I think we would all agree that chart position was mightily impressive, I do understand why Mike could have been disappointed that it dropped out of the charts quickly. TWGMTR spent 8 weeks on the chart which was the same as Stars and Stripes but obviously a much, much shorter time than 15 Big Ones, Still Cruisin' or even BB85 stayed there. Basically they sold stacks on QVC but had nothing to keep that going.

Part of this is probably down to how the music business has changed but Mike certainly isn't the only older performer to be slightly out of touch with that.

Thanks Craig for getting this conversation really going !

First off, I think you're right, and you brought up a lot of totally valid points. And the band was super lost during ... really the '90s I think was the worst.

I think if the group's management had taken the 'God Made the Radio' approach in the '80s, we probably would have seen an album go something like this:

1 Rock N Roll to the Rescue
2 Still Cruisin
3 Somewhere Near Japan
4 Island Girl
5 In My Car
6 Kokomo
7 There's So Many

8 Love and Mercy
9 Make It Big
10 Melt Away
11 Chasin the Sky
12 The Spirit of Rock and Roll
13 California Dreamin'

... and it probably would have been fairly successful (maybe more so than 'Still Cruisin'), with a bit more critical acclaim.

I view the '80s-'00s as really a series of missed opportunities for the group.

I think the potential was always there for something great. The mid-'90s Paley sessions would have been a classic Beach Boys album if properly completed. That, along with Adult Child and Dennis' early '70s stuff, is the greatest missing link in the group's output.

I think Carl was right -- they were not capable of really making another 'Holland' ... but they were capable of making another 'Love You' ... I just don't think anyone except Brian wanted to. I think he still wants to make another 'Love You', but no one is behind him.

But the biggest problem of the era was 'Kokomo' -- since it became a hit, Mike and the group were basically chasing that sound in an attempt to duplicat it's success. Seriously, even by 1992, when the entire landscape of pop music had changed, they released an entire album of 'Kokomo' retreads! And then Stars & Stripes is really just the biggest head-scratcher in a career of head-scratchers. I mean, we could have had a great record somewhere in there!

It's sort of like there is this idea that Beach Boys are have the 'summer fun' side, and the 'serious'/orchestral side or something ... but in reality, I think the real BW-lead Beach Boys would come out something like Love You/Friends/Wild Honey. But I don't think anyone in the band's system, except for maybe Brian and Al Jardine, want to go in this direction.

Well he did say "like we've been known to do" which is a reference to the past music market and not the present. You could see it as confidence [maybe over-confidence] in his group. It seems clear to me he would like to collaborate with Brian like they used to in 1965 for instance, the date he keeps mentioning. Is it bad to want some/more/any input into your group's output?

Also, Cocktail had a buttload of songs that didn't do anything in the charts as I remember. Isn't it possible Komomo made it mostly on its own? I'm sure being in a movie didn't hurt.

Well, I don't think there is any way that the Brian songs were going to appear on Still Cruisin' like that. I wish they had included California Dreamin', Rock and Roll to the Rescue and Chasin' the Sky instead of the oldies but as the album has sold more than a million copies I can't say it would have improved sales.

Obviously Brian couldn't have worked with them until Landy was gone and the Paley stuff doesn't sound that much like Love You to me. If Carl hadn't walked out of the sessions then it probably would have been pretty commercial stuff.

And last year Brian made the album that he wanted to make (which clearly wasn't Love You). He suggested song titles like Spring Vacation and Beaches in Mind and obviously wanted that kind of stuff on there and he was presumably happy to work with Joe Thomas. Brian likes hit records and if the group had done something like Love You then it wouldn't have sold half as well.

one has to be aware or remember (depending on one's age now) that back when that lp came out there were record club ads in tv guide and in about about every music magazine. one could get up to 12 free lps/cassettes/tapes of many lp's when one joined these clubs. many units of lp's were moved by people getting freebies when they joined. i did it myself. many of those units of made in usa and still crusin' were from these record clubs i would wager. so it's not like stores "sold" most of the units in the classic sense. it took a few years for both to reach platinum status.

There are two concepts which I see as being pushed aside, at least judging from Mike's own words.

1. Being a "team player". If you're an athlete on a team of any kind, and you have confidence in that team (or group), does it matter how much you as a part of that team were or were not directly involved when looking back on either a successful season, a playoff victory, a championship, or even a single win by that team? A player on a winning team who downplays the overall win while bemoaning his or her lesser involvement in that team's victory would be rightfully called out as selfish if not petty, and definitely many observers would conclude that the player was perhaps not a "team player" as much as someone driven by either a massive ego, sour grapes, or some other force other than being part of a winning team.

So if Brian comes back into the fold, the remaining original members are involved, and the resulting new Beach Boys album makes the charts at all, let alone cracking the top 5 in the digital download world of 2012, what difference should it make if Mike's involvement was less than he would have liked if the driving force was truly that confidence in "his group"?

2. The concept of celebrating a victory. 2012 was a winning year for the Beach Boys, why not celebrate a successful tour, celebrate a top-5 charting new album, celebrate the awards and the various media attention...it's something millions of musicians successful and unknown strive for and dream about. I fail to see the need to diminish it in any way, or the need to call a top 5 album released by a band of men in their 60's competing with artists on the charts in their teens and 20's and 30's in the year 2012 "not bad".

Again, if Mike sees TTGMTR as a lesser accomplishment, or if he felt he should have been consulted more than he was, I can't see any upside to making that point in public. Again, when the band was more or less going in the direction he was not only in favor of but also directly involved in charting out, where were those successes he seems to be comparing TTGMTR with?

And contrast the wording of the interview with what he was saying while making the interview rounds while promoting both the album and the 50th tour last year, not to mention the Smile box promotions. It seems to have gone from how great it is to get Brian back, to be in the studio, to celebrate the music and get the family back together for these things, to now saying he wasn't that involved and even worse, downplaying the album's performance, suggesting they needed a single on the charts for several months. What?

I just found that recent interview and those sentiments a little disheartening overall.

I'm guessing you haven't watched much sport recently.  :)

The concept of 'team players' may exist at school but in professional sport players will put in transfer requests at the drop of a hat and even refuse to sit on the bench if they are not in the starting line-up.

Even if they do keep their mouths shut at the time that doesn't mean that they should feel they can never criticize or question what's gone before which is what you seem to be saying. If that were the case then sportspeople's autobiographies would be even duller than they actually are.

I think it's a little naive to suppose that any of the group members were only in it for 'the team' last year anyway. The name of The Beach Boys doesn't mean that much to any of them which is why they have urinated on it so many times in the past.

The last paragraph would then disprove the notion that confidence or over-confidence in his group was behind Mike's comments in that interview.

I think the question is: How do you wanna get a hit when you don't promote your single? I'm talking about "Isn't it time" of course. As mentioned before, imo the song has a lot of hit potential but you can't expect that people buy it when there's no one to push it.


Oh and btw, I really have a soft spot in my heart for the 80s tries at getting a hit.

yes it was a theme song from a movie of the same name but the group did in fact want it out and hoped for a hit single from it. bruce in 1990 ( 7/23/90) was doing interviews about their "new" single. on that day bruce was interviewed on a local fm station here (wrvc). was at the studio during the call and have that interview recorded. but they did hope for a hit from that song.

No, I'm not saying that Mike underrates The Beach Boys. The idea of Mike lacking in confidence is hilarious though.

I'm saying that the name of the group doesn't mean that much to them when you compare it to how some of the hardcore fans feel. I think the reunion happened because they thought it would benefit them all. I don't think any of them were thinking, 'I'm going to hate every minute of this but will reunite for the greater good'.

Sure but I presume they also did it because it was easy. Terry Melcher did all of the work so I wouldn't really class it as a concerted effort to have a hit.

same true of kokomo. they got lucky and had a hit.
 you ever hear the interview? know what bruce said? i just told you what he said.

As you pointed out this interview isn't the total of Mike's feelings about the album or C50. I suppose we will all see it the way we want to see it.

Huh? It's not the same thing is it.

For Problem Child Terry Melcher wrote and produced it and the group just turned up to do their vocals (as they did with Crocodile Rock I guess). I don't doubt that they would have liked it to be a hit but there wasn't exactly much effort involved.

For Kokomo Mike co-wrote a new chorus and put a lot more effort into it. The same goes for the rest of the new songs on Still Cruisin'.

A very interesting speculative discussion and survey of past practices. Now we need to know what the BB plan to do now. That's issue 1.

The Beach Boys plan now? I think they're playing Disney Land next week

i hope the album he's making with Al is an album of new material. we've had enough remakes from Brian during the past decade.

Yeah, when you think about it, apart from TWGMTR it's been 5 years since we've got a new original Brian album.

Latest Brian sighting, minus Jeff and Al

How did Jeff become so apart from Brian's life that he just follows him anywhere. That would be an interesting thread.

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-h-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/936198_10151567160437241_283362033_n.png)

It's nice that Brian isn't precious about lighting because that isn't the most flattering photo.

I wish I got to follow Brian around all day. Jeff is lucky!

Brian looks well fed.

I think their plan is to live their lives and do what they want, and don't what all the fans want, and I'm talking about a possible new album. Mike did say "no" to this offer and he stated it in a recent interview, so...
But I'm really happy to have a live album, MIC box-set hopefully with plenty of goodies, a new Brian solo album and a possible more complete C50 DVD.
A new BBs album? I'll not die if they don't make this.

I'd be happy with a smaller tour in 2014 if possible.  A new album would be great though.

I mentioned it on another thread but a short "holiday tour" would be cool (no pun intended). They could do a portion of the Christmas album, some a capella stuff, maybe some rarities (wouldn't it be a hoot to hear "Child Of Winter" and "Winter Symphony"), and bookend it with two sets, much like the C50 sets. I'm sure the wives could get in some extensive shopping, too.

Men have died, from time to time, and worms have eaten them, but not because the BB did not make an new album together in 2013.

You are aware Brian likes and trusts Jeff, right, and that such a companion might be a good idea when you are prone to anxiety and meeting lots of the kind of weirdo who'd pay £6,000 to go to something called 'ROCK AND ROLL FANTASY CAMP'?

Conversely though Hypehat, if I was prone to anxiety, Rock and Roll fantasy camp would be in my top ten list of places to avoid. I'm guessing the Melanagement thought it would be "good for him"  :lol

True true.... £6,000 each, though! :lol

the truth this is  :lol

Not for me, maybe, but, it might be on someone's "bucket list," and maybe some parents have spent upwards of $250,000 in college tuition on his or her kids, and it is time to finally spend some dough on himself or herself.  

Baseball camp, soccer camp, hockey camp, etc...rock and roll camp? Perhaps!

A guilty pleasure? Why not?

Yeah but why focus on all that when we can have some more harmony?

Apart? APART? If Jeff gets any closer to Brian they're going look like Siamese Twins  :p :p

Oh, you mean A ;D Part, Shady.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtK0KMH-8xs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtK0KMH-8xs)

Blame the iphone  ;D


I think it's fantastic Brian loves and trusts Jeff. I was just curious how it came to be.

 ;D I know the feeling - the spellcheckingautocompletefeature on An-ROID phones are just as useless.

Star a thread on that subject and I'll give up my prescription to Ambien.

Any idea if Brian is still in the studio? Haven't gotten any Facebook/Twitter/Instagram updates in a while...

They met in the 70s, I believe. Jeff just showed up at Brian's house. Jeff played with some BB-related bands and then toured with the BB's for much of the 80s. He came back into BW's orbit when they were looking for a falsetto singer in the touring band. Jeff had the longest-running relationship with Brian, and over the last 14 years or so, he's taken a bigger and bigger role and Brian's pal and minder on the road. At a certain point, he started doing some of the larger public appearances / signings with him. It's easier than making some college kid or Melinda do it, and I'm pretty sure he's paid for it, too.

Let's call the studio people. They may have forgotten him in there. :o

He was doing the rock fantasy camp last week, I think.

Let's wait one or two weeks and then let him out. Brian alone in a studio with a piano sounds good to me  :)

We need an update on the issue that matters most to me, the possibility of this studio work becoming a BB album. If we don't hear soon, I'm going to start a thread on "grammatical errors in BB lyrics," and you don't want that to happen.

I want a BBs album as much as anybody here, but it just isn't happening right now.

This is "Pleasure Island" baby, (Well Maybe not)

Better than any Beach Boys album  ;D

Yea, Shady

I cant wait to hear "At the Hop"  ::)

will BW use the BIG BASS harmonica that Paul likes so well?

http://youtu.be/FCNUs5Vvtjk

 :lol

I was half joking. That said I am more interested in hearing what Brian's up to at the moment than a new BB's album. Just look at the people he has playing on this new material.

Just look at the folk he had singing on the last lot of material.

Not a bad bunch of singers, I must admit  ;D

Yes, indeed... but howabout: Brian w/Beck, Vinnie, Tal, Alan, David, etc??  (minus-Brooth & Mike)

yeah I'd have cash in hand for something along those lines  ;)

Personally I can't see how Jeff Beck or Vinnie Colaiuta could work with Brian at all. They're both fine musicians, but play a totally different, incompatible, style of music. I mean, obviously they *have* worked together, but I can't see it being particularly good.

They were in the studio for a day or two. So were Was and Keltner. So were Scotty and Jeff. My guess is we're looking at different players on different tracks.

Party-pooper.  :P

In that case a sax solo by Mike on "At the hop" doesn't seem like the craziest idea

"Totally different"? "Incompatible"?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Ji0ZE0jpcg

I'm frankly amazed Mike and Bruce don't write together. Isn't Bruce supposed to be a songwriter or something?

A lean and mean "Beach Boys" album from Mike/Bruce and their band could be a very cool thing....... or horrible.

Pretty sure that, contractually, a Beach Boys album these days requires buy-in from all the shareholders. And I don't get the impression Bruce has written much of late.

Not that that ever stops Brian ...

Shouldn't stop Bruce either!

C'mon! Pipeline with Mike Love lyrics!!!! Let's go!

Still surprises me that Mike didn't release "Unleash the Love." It's at least on par with Jardine's record, and generally has stronger songwriting. For someone so confident onstage, Mike is oddly reticent when it comes to releasing those 50 or so solo albums he's secretly recorded over the last 30 years.

How about "The nearest faraway kokomo"?

Pipeline To Kokomo
I Write The Songs (That Sound Like Kokomo)
Dierdre Goes To Kokomo
Tears In Kokomo
She Believes In Mike Love Again

Don't forget "Don't be scared (of Mike Love)"

Ballad Of OldSurferDude :)

 ;D

Rendezvous (In Kokomo)
Kokomo Survivor
Won't Someone Go To Kokomo With Me

He was born in 1932.... ;D

:) :) :) :) :) :)

'LOVE will keep us together'

Sadly Carl told Mike after the MIU Sessions that a certain Neil had already written a song called that (and a Captain and some good looking bird had a big hit with it) already  :lol 

More like "LOVE Will Tear Us Apart"

Leaked track from Brian's new album:

I'd Do Anything for (Mike) Love (But I Won't Do That)

I would guess that again comes down to an older guy not understanding the record business anymore. It seemed like after that album had been recorded Mike was doing plenty of interviews in order to try to drum up some interest but realistically major record labels were never likely to release an album like that. A shame that he didn't issue it on a small label though as M&B play to so many fans every year that they would have been certain to sell a moderate amount at concerts (as well as selling on the internet).

 retro disco hit love to love you baby

I keep getting excited and disappointing myself when I see words like "Brian's in the studio with Beck" as opposed to "Brian's in the studio with Jeff Beck". Not that Brian working with a virtuoso like Jeff Beck is a disappointment. Just that Brian working with Beck (as in "the Odelay guy") would be real swell too.

Really though, much like Lindsey Buckingham, Beck is a guy who certainly has pop sensibilities but has a panache for the 'weird' and I rather like it when people like that work with Brian.

The latest issue of Mojo has a 3/4 page on the new Brian album focusing on the collaboration with Jeff Beck.

Some choice quotes:

Earlier this year Wilson and Beck spent a week in the studio. "They got along famously and came up with some new things" says Brian's collaborator Joe Thomas. The LP's one non original, he added, is a traditional song familiar to them both from their youths.: " It's actually the first song Brian ever learned to sing from his grandmother," says Thomas. "Jeff Beck blasted off this one version and it knocked Brian out of the ballpark and then Brian came up with an arrangement and within a few hours there was this magical version" The song, whose title they're keeping secret for now " will blow everyone's minds".

And ...

Thomas reminded him of their 80 hours of unreleased material from those (1998) sessions. He put them in digital files and Brian referred to some when writing songs for last year's TWGMTR. Others he wanted to save for a solo record. "He was very specific about which were which," says Thomas, " and in a lot of cases, the ones for his own album are a lot edgier." He also wanted to write new songs. "I've known him for 20 years and I've never seen him so prolific." So many, Brian says, he can't remember the titles. There's "no concept" this time, "just music. I love the music."

 >:(  >:(  >:(  >:(  >:(  >:(  >:(

You know what, this could be good.
"Summer's Gone" has good production values, and he worked on that.


"Come Down From Your Ivory Tower" perhaps?

is the song "Love is a woman" about Mike Love???? :o :o :o

Thanks for the update Buddhahat!


Indeed - every one of Brian's heartfelt songs on there were actually pretty well produced. I'm still really psyched for this!

I guess BW has to work with JT to use his 1998 material.

I can't help thinking that some, if not all, of the 'life suite' songs Thomas described previously must be earmarked for this album if it is almost entirely original material.

Joe Thomas didn't hurt TWGMTR, He ruined the live album.

I guess it's a toss up for Brian's solo album.

Thanks, Buddahat. Do you think that song they collaborated on might be "Danny Boy" by chance?

I think he did far more harm to That's Why God Made The Radio than to the live album, myself.

I think he did far more harm to That's Why God Made The Radio than to the live album myself.

Really?

I quite like TWGMTR. Wasn't he heavily involved in the suite at the end

As Brian's collaborator, he did a fantastic job!

As a producer, mixed bag IMO. Think About The Days, Pacific Ocean Highway, and Summer's Gone feature some really nice production choices. On the other side of the spectrum, much of the album (title track, Isn't It Time, Spring Vacation for example, there are more) sounds terribly over processed. Then there's the things that bring down otherwise good choices - such as the out of place, 80s sounding drum roll that starts of "Shelter" (and the burying of the harpsichord so it's almost inaudible) and the pitch correction/autotune/whatever software that is used on Al Jardine's voice on From There To Back Again.

The mix of "Summer's Gone" is really great, I would have loved to seen the whole album mixed in that style. Without looking it up, I'd assume he was at least involved in the mix....

I'm always straining to hear that harpsichord in Shelter - it's so low in the mix I don't even know why they left it in!

..... there's a harpsichord in Shelter?!

Exactly.

Also, I'm pretty sure there's the sound of an engine revving up at the beginning, too. There's so much sh!t going on in that mix, there's just no way everything could be clearly audible. Well, not true, it could have been mixed WIDER, but no, this isn't the 60s so every current stereo mix has to be squashed to near mono, I guess. Except Summer's Gone...go figure!

Why do I have a strange feeling that it is "Shortening Bread?"

That mix (Shelter) is probably legit the worst one on TWGMTR - nothing has any life in it, and whilst the song itself is, well, nice, it's just so boring to listen to - everything interesting, like offkilter instrumentation and harmony parts, is mixed so low as to be irrelevant. But hey, plodding 4/4 and strumming acoustics are 'nice', aren't theyzzzzzzzzzz

Yes, there's a bunch of slickness on TWGMTR. But the overall production and arrangement (particularly for the backing tracks) is so far ahead of Imagination that I'm willing to give Joe and Brian the benefit of the doubt. TWGMTR sounded like a Brian Wilson record.

Yes, the live album doesn't bode well. But on the other hand, a creatively energized Brian sounds great. And regardless of his collaborators, if Brian is excited and into the music, something good will result.

Well, that as my very first thought, too, and I genuinely hope it is so.  Still, your post included this quote: "There's "no concept" this time," so is this a hint that these new tracks are each meant to stand on their own (rather than as part of a cohesive suite)?   :shrug

Man, I really want to hear the completed suite!

I really don't think it did. At least, no more than Imagination did. It sounded clinical, sterile, and inhuman. There's a lot to like about the album, but I have to listen past the fairly horrible sound of the production to get to it. I'm glad others get more out of it though.

To me, it absolutely sounds of a piece with the TLOS, Gershwin and Disney records. And the difference isn't subjective, either. There is an actual objective difference to the sounds and arrangements on the record. No nylon string guitar, for one thing. No glossy synth keyboards, for another. There's a reason Brian gets the solo producer credit on it.

Yes, there is a big-studio, expensive sound to those arrangements and vocals. It's slick, no doubt, and it wasn't polished off in a week at Mark L.'s house. But oveerall, I found it at the time -- and still do -- to be warm and lush and full of life.

I'm sure there is. 'They say that Brian is back...'  ;)

They had no problem giving Joe a co-producer credit on Stars and Stripes and the live record.

Ah, Wirestone, you omitted the sound of the vocals from your post for a reason. They are the most JT sounding thing on there!

Oh, man, I hope not!  Wouldn't be a bit surprised though.  :-D

Well, that's one of the clear reasons why they brought him in.  ;D  IMHO, the vocals on Imagination are magnificent. Not particularly true or accurate, but a stunning studio creation. TWGMTR's vocals come close at times, but are a little over-fussy in comparison.

Oh, it's different -- but the kind of difference that fifteen years makes, rather than the kind of difference that a different producer makes. Imagination was the kind of thing an adult contemporary producer would do in 1998, and That's Why God Made The Radio is the kind of thing an adult contemporary producer would do in 2003.

I do believe Brian might have had more of a hand in the arrangements this time than in 1998.

Andrew, I like to think the 2003 in that post is a zing on Joe Thomas' cackhanded production nature rather than a typo, tbh.

I mean, I'm inclined to think that BW had a big hand in the arrangements and everything on TWGMTR, but Joe Thomas was definitely running the board in the sense that Brian doesn't give a f*** about Pro Tools and delegates that to the nearest person who does - when it's Mark Linett, we get natural sounding records like the Gershwin one, and when it's JT, we get autotuned whistling.

True but that was a long time ago with regards to Stars and Stripes. For last year's album I would have been amazed if Brian hadn't been credited as producer no matter how much he had contributed.

As for the live record, Brian obviously had nothing to do with the production so to give Joe Thomas no credit at all would have been taking the proverbial.

I mean, depending on what you believe, JT is fulfilling the role Chuck Britz used to - Brian asks 'can we get X sounding like Y' and he does it, but also takes a lot of the engineering heft, knowing how to use the sheer nuts and bolts of the recording technology under the order of Brian who really doesn't want to know how to bounce 16 mics onto one track/f*** with the banal logic of digital recording so long as the sound he wants is possible.

Which, I guess, leads onto Brian being happy with how TWGMTR sounds - it sounds processed to the point of mediocrity , but it doesn't sound offkey I guess - but that speaks volumes to JT as a producer. JT doesn't want 'real' performances. Imagine if JT, rather than Rick Rubin, produced Johnny Cash in his final years - Rubin might have dressed the tracks in various ornamentation, but he never f***ed with Johnny's vocal. It's really akin to that, given that you're dealing with such an act. They aren't Ricky & The Rockets, y'know...

I actually agree with this 100 percent. Just depends on how much it bothers one listener or another. The Chuck Britz analogy you make later is good too -- these days, Chuck would have a good case to make for being listed as a co-producer.

I mean, I agree the record is super slick. It just doesn't bother me as much as the robo-vocals of the live album.

Honestly I wouldn't doubt that this album Brian is working on is what was basically gonna be the "new Beach Boys album" that Brian was talking about doing, until Mike Love decided he would rather save his son from having to get a real job instead of making another album and possibly writing with the one of the greatest composers of the 20th and 21st centuries..

Good point. JT has no business manipulating the voices of one of the greatest vocal acts of all time. Tweaking vocals of someone very famous for not having the need to do so is incredibly disrespectful to that artist's legacy. JT should be utterly ashamed of himself for what he has done.

Can we focus on the fact that we're gonna have a new edgy Brian album?

Edgy in the opinion of Joe Thomas, a man who thinks Jim Peterik and Jon Bon Jovi are good collaborators for Brian Wilson.

Well, we got the best Brian track in who knows how long from Bon Jovi sooooooooooooooo..........

Brian's voice has been manipulated on Beach Boys albums since practically the start of his recording career. The issue isn't whether his voice is altered -- to me at least. It's how the final result sounds.


I thought Summer's Gone ended up pretty well.

I was extremely unimpressed myself, but OK, substitute Jimmy Buffet then.

You're a hard man to please, Andrew Hickey. But yes, Jimmy B. makes a good sub. As does Carole Bayer Sager.

Speaking of Caroles, I'd have like to hear the BW-Carole King cowrite of two decades ago ...

I just have different tastes to the rest of the board. I thought The Private Life Of Bill And Sue was fantastic, for example.

The fact that the Beach Boys used to have the voices to qualify for the claim of "one of the greatest vocal acts of all time" shouldn't cloud the facts that they can't live up to anything near that claim right now. Listen, I love them. And I despite excessive processing, by which I mean overly unnatural or robotic results. But the guys, live around a single mic (or pair of mics, if you're giving Mike his own), would be a disaster. Even if the songs were arranged to drop them into reasonable registers, it would be rough.

Vocal Range.
The guys were masters of tight harmonies, but even with that fact, there is a certain amount of range required. That range is dramatically reduced because of age and death. Even the one everyone here says has a voice unchanged by time--Al--doesn't have the range he used to. He has a similar timbre to that of his youth, but his high range is without question diminished. While we are occasionally told Brian still has the same falsetto as he used to (but that it's "louder than God," if I recall AGD's quote of someone else's quote...Darian?), we don't hear it. Bruce doesn't have it anymore. And Carl is dead. The high part--parts, even--are Jeff's. Sure, you can replace the parts, but you're already manipulating the voices of the greatest vocal act of all time if you're bringing in other people (family members or old friends or not).

Oh, and Mike's bass voice isn't consistently strong, either. He is less powerful than in his youth. Especially on record there are ways to compensate, but isn't that manipulating the voice of a member of one of the greatest vocal acts of all time?

Vocal Quality / Accuracy.
Brian cannot sing on pitch on a consistent basis. He also doesn't articulate well. This is a huge problem for a band whose arrangements require tight harmonies on extended chords. Bob Dylan, Tom Waits, Leonard Cohen, or the aforementioned Johnny CAsh--these types can get away with their voices' decay because their songs don't require tight harmonies with things like like major seventh chords or 13th chords or suspensions. But when you're working with chords incorporating tight intervals (a root and a seventh both in the same chord, a fifth and a sixth, etc.), it matters a lot. Brian doesn't even consistently sing melodies on pitch.

Further, someone like Bruce (and sometimes Mike) sounds breathy now, whereas he once had a clear and almost brassy voice. He's more a Dennis now in that--and only that!--respect.

And while David brings a lot to the table instrumentally, his voice is another one that just isn't a standout.

Summary
In the end, this band of senior citizens is not capable of singing at anywhere near the quality they used to sing without studio manipulation. I'm not saying they are terrible singers now, and each voice still has its strengths and charms. But with a reduced range to work within combined with the natural ravages of time and misfortune of loss, the choices are limited: write non-"Beach Boys" vocal arrangements that accommodate their limitations by using middle-low registers and fewer tight or difficult harmonies; bring in non-band member vocalists who can sing the parts (and feature them in the mix); or manipulate the band's voices through the available means in the studio. Desper has talked about using studio technology to do things like speed tape to get higher vocal parts, and obviously they've been optimizing multitrack and splicing technology almost forever to get takes that are better than what they could actually perform in-person.

The debate seems mostly a reworking of Churchill's quote: we've already [long-since] established [that they'll use studio manipulation to create the illusion of perfect vocals], now we're just haggling over [the specific manipulation]. Or something like that...

I find your lack of faith disturbing.

And if I was Mike Love I might respond and substitute with the name Van Dyke Parks. ;)

They're still good.


No one said this would be the approach the should use.


That doesn't justify the piss-poor approach that is being used to "hide" their limitations. It doesn't have to be this way. You're talking a bunch of millionaires whom are recognized as one of the most important groups of all time, this is not anywhere near the best that could be done by their producers and handlers. The execution is poor, the time and effort aren't there or aren't there to the extent that they really should be, people like Joe Thomas are being lazy, doing well below what should be the minimum amount of work in preserving the band's legacy and laughing all the way to the bank as they do so.

These people's means of "perfecting" the supposed imperfections and limitations of the Beach Boys only serve to embarrass the band and make them look incapable of what they're indeed capable of, if not to the same extent they were in 1965. I've heard on more than one occasion they it's obvious they can't sing worth sh*t anymore and that the reunion was little more than a cash grab by a bunch of formerly talented old men. The job done on the live album only solidifies that to these people. It doesn't have to be like that at all.

People seem to forget that, just a few years ago, we had some of the best vocals Brian has recorded in decades on the Gershwin album and, to a slightly lesser extent, TLOS and the Disney record. They may have sounded every so slightly glossy on occasion, but it wasn't at all to the point of distraction. The manipulation was rarely obvious (as opposed to being consistently obvious on some parts of the last two Beach Boys releases), most things were approached in good taste. His vocals just sounded good and sounded pretty natural. He sounded great on the live releases. Then Joe Thomas stepped in.

I agree.


Maybe you didn't say it, but the post I quoted in my initial one certainly implied something similar. Cabinessenceking said: "JT has no business manipulating the voices of one of the greatest vocal acts of all time. Tweaking vocals of someone very famous for not having the need to do so is incredibly disrespectful to that artist's legacy." I would say that "no business manipulating the voices" means something quite similar to, well, "no business manipulating the voices." Meaning leave them to sing without manipulation. That's what I was responding directly to. Not other people's positions that may be more nuanced and allow for some types of manipulation but not others (which, as I said, would actually by my position).



I agree.

I find others' faith disturbing.

Fair 'nough. I'm sure he didn't explicitly mean "no business manipulating" as in leaving them untouched given their voices have been "manipulated" in one way or another since 1961, though.


Yeah, well. ;(

The album TWGMTR has Bruce on some falsetto parts. And he usually did the high ending on "Fun, fun, fun" live (probably does the same when touring with Mike solo).

There's other high bits he does live - on "God Only Knows", for instance (if I'm not mistaken).

The middle part? Might be, I'd have to listen to it. And of course he goes high on "Disney girls (1957)".

My understanding, based on some of the interviews, and on just listening, is that Bruce does most of the falsetto in the harmony stack on almost the entire record, with Foskett just below in Carl's old spot.

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"church bingo chances"  ;)

Zach, he hits a few good ones at the end when he breaks it down, iirc

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No, I wasn't talking about that specific part. He goes quite high at the end for example and (I'm not 100% sure about this one) during the do-do-do-do part just before the whistling starts.







Yep, I agree with that.
Bruce has some moments on the album singing the falsetto but usually it's Jeff