The Smiley Smile Message Board

(From The Rock Radio, http://www.therockradio.com/2006/04/beach-boys-planning-reunion-gig.html)




Founding Beach Boy Al Jardine has announced what many Beach Boys fans have been hoping for -- an onstage reunion featuring himself with Brian Wilson, Mike Love, and Bruce Johnston.

In a world exclusive, Jardine revealed to us that plans are in the works for the group to reform later this year in London, in celebration of the 40th anniversary of their 1966 Pet Sounds album. Jardine said that if all goes well, a possible reunion tour might follow: "Actually, a reunion tour is not out of the question, because with this Pet Sounds anniversary coming up, it's a very good possibility that we'll be performing it live in London in November. It would be like a Pet Sounds reunion. Mike is open to it and Brian appears to be open to it and you never know what might spring from that. So if (a reunion tour) is in the cards, we'll do it. You never know. It might just work. "

Jardine and Brian Wilson have been in various legal battles with Love over the past few years, and have not performed with the group since 1998 and 1996, respectively. Love and Johnston continue to tour under the Beach Boys name.

Conspicuously absent from the reunion is Beach Boys co-founder David Marks, who has been performing joint gigs with Jardine over the course of the past year. Jardine explained that although Marks was a co-founder and played a crucial part in most of the group's early recordings, the reunion show would only feature group members who participated in the actual Pet Sounds sessions. Marks quit the group in November 1963 after performing on their first five albums.

Jardine did not give a date when the concert plans would be finalized, who would be backing the group onstage, or when the concert would be announced.

Pet Sounds, which was released on May 16th, 1966, featured such Beach Boys classics as "Wouldn't It Be Nice," "Sloop John B.," "I Just Wasn't Made For These Times," and "God Only Knows."

Jardine and David Marks will team up with Dean Torrence of Jan & Dean for the "Cruisin' With The Legends Of Surf Music" cruise, set for October 2nd through 6th.

The Rock Radio online


Well, if Al Jardine says so...  :o  ;D

(This is my first post on this board! Hello everybody!)

Hopefully, Brian's band will be involved. If not, it will be a trainwreck.

I'm sure any of the bands or any combination of the bands are well qualified and I say go for it, so now that it has my blessing they may proceed.

History proved Brian right, it's very interesting that they are going to get together for a Pet Sounds aniversary.
Mike, Al and Bruce weren't that involved with it and were amongst the non-believers of Brian's creative trip. 40 years later
the tables have turned. That aside, I think it's cool they are going to be back as the Beach Boys.

IF that is true, than I am quite sure the backing group will be a mixed thing from all three fractions. I hope it will be Brian's band, since they don't need very much rehearsal, 'cause they already played it live and are perfect. Anyone got any insights, if this is really true ? I have my doubts about Brian wanting to tour (or just one cocnert) with Mike

That news gives me a really bad and creepy feeling. I really hope it isn´t true, because it sounds like Brian is forced to do this stuff. He spent the last couple of years to re-create his reputation as one of the great pop-composers, and it would be terrible if it ends at some country-fairs, where he is background-singer for the Mike Show.

Notice that Al is short on the specifics...i would be surprised if this happend.

But i'd try to be there for it, too!
;-)

Well, perfoming "Pet Sounds" isn't the worst thing to do....
I really doubt that they will go on tour afterwards, if the one concert will happen at all, but it ould be a nice way to lay the "Beach Boys" to rest finally.....

I'm really not sure about doing Pet Sounds. Brian's already done it anyway so what's the point, are you going to take away his leads (which he sang originally anyway) and give them to Al? I suppose getting Mike doing his bits is kind of cool but apart from that it seems stupid to do an album mainly sung by Brian, and which the most famous song was sung by Carl.  Why not put together a nice setlist that incorporates some a capella stuff that the group could still pull off, and then focus on the Mike Al Brian Bruce leads with a tribute each to Carl and Dennis. 

Well, If this thing happens, bring in what is left of the "Wrecking Crew"!

That would be the ultimate petsounds live experience possible today, and fill in the gaps with band members.

First, I guess that concert will not be only-Pet Sounds. There will be some of the surfin'-songs, etc.  And the thing why they do "Pet Sounds" is, that they do it in tribute of the 40th anniversary, so it's very logical.

Actually, this seems like something that Brian WOULDN'T be forced to do. This might be more comfortable than his solo performances of Pet Sounds because he wouldn't have to "carry" the show, singing lead on every song, especially on songs that he wasn't the original lead vocalist on.

I never viewed the last couple of years as Brian "re-creating" his reputation as one of the great pop composers. Is that what you think Getting In Over My Head and What I Really Want For Christmas did? I'm not ignoring BWPS, but those songs were COMPOSED 37 years ago. Maybe that's why they called it Brian Wilson Presents SMiLE instead of Brian Wilson Composes (note present tense) SMiLE.

A 2006 Pet Sounds may or may not play county fairs, but some of the crowds at Brian's solo concerts were not much bigger than that.

I wouldn't view a Beach Boys concert with Brian, Mike, Al, Bruce, and David(?) as a "Mike Show", especially if Pet Sounds is performed. And what's wrong with Brian singing some/a lot of background vocals? He wrote 'em, and again, it might be more fun for Brian to harmonize a bit instead of singing lead on Surfin' USA, Barbara Ann, and Fun Fun Fun...

Yeah, I think he said something like that on the "Stars & Stripes"-making of....

they should scrap pet sounds and tour Friends instead :)

good call amosario...the less we hear of Mike....


Welcome to the board Sloop!

and another thing, a pet peeve, why the hell do they always showcase their stuff in London first? Last time I checked they were AMERICA's band...

:shrug

Personally, Brian doesn't need them anymore  ::) If it was him and Al, I would go but Mike and Bruce? I saw them in concert last night and they were so bad! I would've hoped they would've been better then last year but no it was worse!






Then again, anything with Brian I have to drop everything for  ;D

i hear ya amo


Mike's shows in the UL are so much better...more than the greatest hits...i guess they like better music than us here in the US.

they got the PS tour first (i think)
smile debuted there
the wonderful/wind chimes single in UK

they always get the goods

Generally, we're Brian's most loyal audience. Not to say the US doesn't have it's true believers, but, pound for pound, he gets more love here.

I can't disagree with that. I believe every Beach Boy album from Pet Sounds and thereafter made it higher in the charts in the UK than the US...those gosh-darn americans!

Come on people, read between the lines.

Mike is suing Brian for his use of the BB name in his touring and for finishing Smile.

The complaint mentioned Al by name and Al has been sued before.

Can we say, "compromise"?  As in, maybe that was what Mike wanted all along?  And that this is as much a legal manuever as a musical one?

That said, if they come to Ohio I am there.

A Florida based multi-millionaire and his sons (all suspiciously resembling Chuck LePage) took over Manchester United a while back. That takeover is yet to prove the disaster that many predicted. 'Til it does, I've nothing against the USA.

People have been predicting the possibility of such a reunion for some months now, Jeff.

Right -- and in many of those predictions (including mine), the rationale was the legal side.  I.e., Mike suing Brian to get him to tour with him.  Brian is doing far better than Mike now and Brian could only help Mike's career now.  Plus Mike is most likely angry/jealous of Brian getting tour income that Mike doesn't get when Brian has taken a share of Mike's income for over 30 years.  Can't say I am not sympathetic if that is so.  So yes, I know it has been rumored -- but I think that the lawsuits are explanation.

Haha, I'm just a sucker for the fatalist approach!

Maybe Brian has also asserted himself so much with his latest sucesses, that he isn't so afraid of Mike anymore, which could sway him towards participating in a reunion.

Søren

Brian said from time to time, that he'd like to work with Mike again. Then he also said frequently the opposite. Maybe he was asked whe he was just in the "okay"-phase...


And here a new interview with Mike Love, he mentions nothing about a reunion: http://www.recordonline.com/archive/2006/04/21/features_goentertainment-21gocover-04-21.html

For the record, PS Live debuted in the US.  Didn't make it to the UK until two years later, i believe.  They did, however, get Smile first...

Good point and I took some heat for bringing this up on the CalSaga board quite a few months ago (from someone known as HighSurf).  This is mostly Al's doing, he was very pointed when he was here in Gilroy last summer that he wanted to put the BB surviving members back together.  He did a subsequent interview (perhaps actually done before the Gilroy show) where he talked at length about getting Brian to come out of hiding and be a BB again.

It was right after that (I think in October) that Al dropped any remaining litigation against BRI.  Paving the way for a more peaceful resolution.  The Mike action is not directed at Smile or Brian per se, although many casual fans still believe it is.  Has the case been resolved yet? 

I got the hint from Brian's messages on BW.com that he was heading in this direction as well.  Obviously a lot of talk and negotiations have been going on behind the scenes for many months now.

I know I would love to see all four together again, even if it sounds terrible.  Just one last chance.  perhaps that is how they see it as well.

Dave

Is Brian really doing better than Mike, at least as a live act?  I've not gotten that impression.  Both acts are really better served by smaller venues, as Brian learned this summer.  Mike can get some decent fees, but again, the BB mostly play smaller places.   Brian does well in some markets, not so well in others.  I'm really not convinced that this could help either act build a larger audience, either in terms of touring or maybe a one-off show with a DVD.  It's not much to get excited about, but if it makes them happy and helps heal wounds, good for them.  If it doesn't make them happy and re-opens old wounds, then forget about it. 

As for the lawsuit, here's the update I posted over on the grey board:
Bumped up for a brief update: Two parties were let out of Mike's case (Big Time TV and Associated Newspapers). Brian and his companies have appeared in the case and are set to file answers to the complaint next week. A hard-fought motion to disqualify Mike Love's lawyers from representing Mike was denied. No details on what the grounds for the motion were. Both Melinda and Mike (among many others) filed statements regarding that motion. The remaining motions to dismiss by David Leaf and others will now be heard on May 15. Again, to date only a handful of the court documents (mostly one-page court orders) have been posted on line so there's not much further detail to report.  (There 's an earlier thread on this board with all the gory details of the initial filing).

Beyond that. no clue from the court filing that any settlement is imminent, though of course that could happen anytime if there's incentive.  As for getting Brian onstage with the others, believe it when you see it, not before.   There's still a ways to go,  it sounds like a wish on Al's part more than anything else, not that there's anything wrong with that. . 

If Al is behind it, I think that is only appropriate, and I wish him well and hope it happens.  I think it will be good for Brian to be able connect that way again with his problems more under control for a change.  They will do it if they want to and lawsuits will have nothing to do with it imo.

I had a long talk with Al today. It seems everybody is talking again in the BB's world... who knows if it will last...but...Brian and Al are talking regularly...they've both spoken with Mike recently and it was all positive...David is visiting with Mike and Bruce tonight...anything is possible.

thanks, good news lets hope for the better

Well, that's good.  As long as they can face each other and get a little enjoyment out of each others company, then it should be okay.  There's not enough money in the world to pay them if they really don't want to do it or can't stand the sight of each other.

If *BIG IF* this comes to pass, here's what I'd like to see.

Have it be just a one-off concert, but promote the hell out of it.  Air it as a concert special on network tv, then a month or two later release the entire concert uncut on DVD with a documentary/behind-the-scenes of how it came to be, the rehearsals, etc.

No tour, nothing else, just a one-shot deal, and then retire the Beach Boys name.

Line up would be as follows:

Mike Love
Bruce Johnston
David Marks
Al Jardine
Brian Wilson

None of the above would play instruments.  Just the five of them center stage around mics

Jeffrey Foskett on guitar
Matt Jardine on percussion

they would share falsetto duties

Backup band would be:

Jim Hines (or Bobby Figuroa... definately not Kowalski) on drums
Ed Carter on bass
Darian Sahanaja on keyboard and vibes
Billy Hinsche on piano
Mike Meros on organ
Nick Walusko on guitar
Scott Totten on guitar
Probyn Gregory on guitar, tannerin, trumpet, french horn, etc
Paul Mertens on saxophone, flute, harmonica

Since it's a one-off deal throw in the Stockholm Strings n Horns as well

The concert would center around Pet Sounds (that would be the only part televised) but the concert could include some hits and rareties as well.  Need to think of a full setlist for the DVD.

After the show, the Beach Boys name is retired.

If Mike still had the bug to tour, he could do it as "Mike Love presents his Beach Boys" or somesuch.

The end

Mike singing on Pet Sounds Live with Brian and Al would be so worth it. Heck, even to have Bruce join in the round at the end of God Only Knows would be amazing. As long as Mike's bass voice is still in effect, it should ADD to the Brian shows, because Brian's band is missing that voice.

Jeff, you forgot to have them end world hunger!

Why a one-shot?  Why retire the name?  If they're going to do this they may as well do it right while hopefully getting all the bad feelings resolved by having a "SMiLE" Reunion concert, too.

If they could do that it would definitely open things up for the SMiLE Original Sessions Box Set -- with hopefully the Oppenheimer films added to the collection.

And I hope they tour the US with this line-up, too.  I mean, if they can do this without anyone feelings getting hurt and hopefully really enjoying themselves then I'm all for it. 

(HOWEVER...  I sincerely hope Mike works on his vocal prowess.  I think Brian is a better singer than Mike these days.  Mike's voice sounds really, really weak and thin.  If he can't sing better than what I've heard from him these past few years I almost don't think it would be worth it.)

Love and merci,  Dan Lega

  Sir, i know u mean well...but come on, dude...i'm sick of  your detail, man. if it makes you feel better to list and control, then fine, but it creeps me out how thought out all yr pre-analysis is...almost pretentious you are.
Man they are gonna do what theyre gonna do...please become their manager and agent and lawyer and stage guy and dvd remasterer, etc. whatever the hell u can...just chill & be still.

AMEN

See, i would put a guitar in David's hands.  He's too fine a player to take that away from him.  He sings fine, but he plays great.

Yeah! And Al! come on... How can you do songs like "Sloop John B" and things with Al on stage, and NOT have him play?  Al playing guitar onstage = money. 

Yeah, Al would just look odd without a guitar.

You COULD give him a set of dentist's pliers.

That's great news Jon!!!  I talked to Al for about 5 minutes at the Cerritos concert on March 17, and he was very upbeat then.  There was no mention of a reunion then, but then again, that was a month ago.   

So how much is airfare from San Diego to London?  Just in case...  ;D

Good vibes,
Eric

About £600 return ($900?).

I tend to agree with the poster who pointed out that PS has already been thoroughly done live; surely this would deter 'Brian's band' from participating again? (cash apart, of course).

Personally I was hoping for gracious and fulfilled retirement from BW and a new Wondermints album.

Whatever the Beach Boys - all of them - have been doing in the last three decades is irrelevant. Footpage notes. Even BWPS will slowly fade away as a novelty release.

I wouldn't care much about the prospects of a reunion, but the idea makes some Brianistas so angry that I'm warming up to it.  ;D

With all due respect man i was just taking ideas myself and others have had about a reunion (the idea has been around forever) and put it down into words in one cohesive post.  I didn't pre-analyse it because as of yet there's nothing TO pre-analyse.  More like wishful thinking on the part of Mr Jardine, which is why I started my post *big if*.  I realize they are going to do what they're going to do and my opinion doesn't amount to sh*t, but it's fun to dream.  As for becoming part of their team, the only job i'd like is Alan Boyd's   ;D

Personally, I'd rather not see it.  Other than maybe the little '93 box set tour, they haven't really done anything to help their legacy since about 1974.  There's no artistic reason for it; there's certainly no mystique to exploit; the only reasons I can see for it are personal reconciliation and the fact that, as it stands, Stars and Stripes was the saddest ending since Orson Welles bowed out in the Gobots movie.  But both of those are considerable. 

If they could do something that retired the name and ended the lawsuits in a classy, dignified, "Good VIbrations" manner, it'd be o.k.  But that's not what I think would happen.  I think we'd see two important names added to the Mike and Bruce lineup for a while, with the goal to play B-level venues for one round instead od Z-level ones, and then back to business as usual.

Mike will die on stage and that's fine, that's his choice, but it would be sad for Brian to go out that way because I don't think it's his choice.  Brian's own shows have been more about love, support,  and appreciation of him and his lefe's work by hardcore fans than sunshine, tubetops, and nostalgia with the oldies radio crowd.  Brian is not a performing flea.  And it's sad that so much of his musical legacy is chained to the world's slowest sinking ship.

That's the Transformers Movie, a classic role!

Thanks for setting the record straight- I'd have hated to see Orson's legacy suffer such an injustice! ;D

Whatever makes the most money will happen. Not for sure, but probably. Besides, the fans want to see it. Hell, YOU want to see it, especially if Brian seems OK doing it. And I'm thinking... if Brian gets involved with them again, it'll be on HIS terms - he might actually have a decent time of it if this is the case.

I honestly don't see it that way.  As a matter of fact, I'd say Brian's fun in the sun music is underappreciated and unfortunately stands in the shadow of the more serious music he's made.  You never hear somebody say "Man, Brian Wilson is such a genius... he wrote 'Fun, Fun, Fun'."  Why not celebrate some of that as well?  If that happens to bring out the nostalgia crowd, so be it.  Nothing at all wrong with a tubetop at a Brian Wilson concert. 

Fuckin' A!!!!!!! Thanks for the new sig.
Nothing wrong with a tubetop ever!

That's deep man.  No joke.

Totally agree, Ron, totally agree. If anything, his early stuff has been denigrated in the "ONLY PET SOUNDS MATTERS" campaign. "Surfin' USA?" "Fun Fun Fun?" "I Get A Frickin' Round?" "California Girls?" All UNBELIEVABLY great songs. I think anybody who doesn't appreciate those early songs -- hell, his entire early recording canon -- isn't a proper Brian Wilson fan, and I stand by that. There's a reason those songs are legendary and undying -- they're as brilliant in their own way as Pet Sounds is in its. Anybody who thinks Brian doesn't owe the majority of his legacy to those great songs that the entire world remembers is deluding themselves. The early canon is like fully 1/2 of Brian's full legacy, and not liking them = being about half a Brian fan.

Even the people going to Brian's concerts like to hear those songs. Lord knows I do.

Those songs are the crowd pleasers, not "I Just Wasn't Made For These Times"

When the Beach Boys played the Filmore East with the Dead, everyone is trying so hard to be hip and then the Boys break into "I Get Around" and the place went nuts.

It would be a big mistake not to play those early songs. They are great and deserve to be heard !
But it's a matter of how you present those songs. People will never realize how great a painting is, when it's shown at McDonald's instead of a picture gallery. 'know what I mean ?

My dream reunion setlist:

Long Tall Texan
Hey Little Tomboy
Lazy Lizzie
Monster Mash
Can't Stop Talking About American Girls
(I Saw Santa) Rockin' Around The Christmas Tree
Blueberry Hill
Ten Little Indians
The Beaks of Eagles
Do You Like Worms (Disco version)
Wipe Out
School Days
Chasin' The Sky
Problem Child
Shortnin' Bread (Jam incorporating every Bread rewrite Brian has written)
Life Is For The Living

Encore:
Battle Hymn Of The Republic

My issue is overall representation.  The ONLY time in the history of the BB that all eras got a fair shake was the 3 CD GH release a few years back, and even that had zero Denny.  I would want to see the whole shebang -- the early hits, the Pet Sounds, the Smile, the late Capitol period, a smattering of the early 70's.  But what invariably happens is you get a MikeNBruce show that gives one (the hits) without the rest.  Or you get Brian who excels at the obscure but throws a few hits in at the end as a bonus.  The closest we ever got to what I call an ideal set list were the shows in 2000 for the PS tour that didn't have an orchestra, so they had to fill the time with extra songs that balanced it out a bit.

So if they do this, I would want to see a set list that acknowledges that much of the best music was done after 1967.  And I bet they would not do this.

what, no 'Smart Girls'? :shrug

Smart Girls NEVER HAPPENED. Just a vicious rumor.

I'd pay big bucks to hear that setlist. Hell, I'd pay big bucks just to hear the Shortenin' Bread jam...

I would also totally disagree with whoever dissed the early stuff, but it sure wasn't me.  As it happens, I like Shut Down Volume 2 much better than Wild Honey.  So start a new argument over that.  I also keep the backing track to "Fun, Fun, Fun" in a folder on my desktop and play it about once a week.

My comment was on the overall nature of Brian's shows vs. that of Mike's, not the overall songlists, and for that matter, Brian does play the early stuff.

Vas iss dis "Shmart Girls"? Nevermind- please don't answer.

Hell is sooooooooooooooo going to freeze over before this happens  ::)

If the living Beach Boys -- i.e., Brian, Mike, Al, and Bruce -- have a concert reunion (and perhaps album), and David Marks is included, am I the only one who thinks Ricky and Blondie should be part of it too?

I mean, maybe they wouldn't want to be part of it, but I say they have at least as much claim as David Marks, probably more -- did the Beach Boys ever record a David Marks composition?  Did David Marks have nearly the instrumental impact, live and on record, as Ricky and Blondie did with the Beach Boys?

This is not meant to denigrate David in any way.  I'm just kind of surprised that Ricky (who played on BB albums through 1980, including 15 Big Ones and KTSA I know for sure) and Blondie are not even being mentioned on this thread.

Wouldn't you get chills hearing Blondie sing "Sail on Sailor"?  Or hearing "Here She Comes" or "Hold on Dear Brother"?  I sure would.

No disrespect to Blondie or Ricky- but I think Dave's period in the band was far more significant.

Incidentally, I have heard Blondie sing "Sail On, Sailor"- as part of something calling itself the Byrds in about 1986.

BDN -- I concur with you.  I was annoyed at the BB GH releases that listed David Marks as a member but not Blondie or Ricky.  Joe, the period that Marks was a member was more formative, and his influence may require more credit if posts elsewhere on this site about Al's vision of the band are true, but you cannot discount the impact that they had in re-establishing credibility pre-Endless Bummer.  Plus NO ONE ELSE should be allowed to sing Sail On Sailor from the remaining BB members.

I could change my mind by the time I get to the Blueboard or ME3, but now I'm saying I hope it doesn't happen...I doubt that the reunion is happening simply because Al, Brian, Mike and Bruce wanna do it...Mike will wanna use HIS guys, Brian will wanna use HIS team probably--Instant Conflict...it sounds like the Ultimate Logistic Nightmare...Blondie? Ricky?  don't forget to include Daryl Dragon...

That's why I think it was much more significant.  To me, Blondie and Ricky, much as I like their contributions and also wish they'd stuck around, caught the tail end of the ride- the descent, unfortunately. Neither Dave nor The Flame were around for the peak in 1964-66, but I- opinion alert, once again- think 1961-63 was much more important to the band than 1971-73.


Just another honest divergence of views, there- having been a very young fan at the time, I don't think that credibility was re-established. Critically, commercially, and (I think) artistically, the Beach Boys after the crash of Spring 1967 were pop music's funny uncle.  They did some wonderful stuff, but they never really had a firm grip again except for limited runs in limited areas, like a nice run of live shows, one really great single ("Sailor") that sold pretty well...they found a niche, but they were never what I would call really firmly re-established.

'61-'63: Classic period for the band (in my opinion)
'71-'73: mixed bag at best( (in my opinion)


 Let the scratching, biting, and hair-pulling begin.... ;D

Historic importance is different then musical quality. I have heard from many people how highly regarded the Jack Rieley era stuff was. How credible they again were to those who were truly hip. Not counting the original 5, I think Ricky and Blondie are more artistically interesting then any of the other Beach Boys even Bruce. Not in the groups history maybe just musically. Don't think I am putting the early stuff down. I think all the pre 76 albums and members had something going for them. It is simply just my taste.

A reunion show (or tour) probably would work.  As long as Brian could bring most of his band (With Al and Bruce doing their parts).  And Brian should definitely have final say in terms of a set list.  I agree that this shouldn't turn into "The Mike Show".

All differences aside, how cool would it be to have Brian playing bass with Al and Mike on stage again?  I think that's why a show like this might happen.  It could be one last shot.

And how ironic if both Pet Sounds and Smile material were performed, in effect to revive Mike's career?  I bet that might make Brian smile a little inside...  :angel:

If it is a painting made to be shown at McDonalds then that is presentation in its highest form.

If it happened, who says they would use any of anyone's band?  Our muso bros acrossed the pond might get a chance of a lifetime.

Joe -- I recall your post a while back about that -- what a fantastic story.


I don't own any BB compilations, so I was unaware of this.  It is simply wrong not to list Ricky and Blondie as BB members -- the fact is they were.  Just look at the packaging materials on CATP and Holland.  They can't be written out of history -- and why would anyone want to anyway?


Yes, absolutely!  Didn't Toni Tennille sing back up for the Beach Boys a few times?  You could combine this BB reunion with Captain & Tennille as opening act.  And maybe Daryl could perform a few Dennis classics he co-wrote like "Cuddle Up."

If this reunion happens, Ed Carter had better be part of it.

I listen to XM radio all day, and the guy on the 60's channel (motormouth, or whatever his name is) always plays a Beach Boys song, then says (In a really fast voice!)

MAN, I HOPE THESE GUYS CAN PUT THEIR DIFFERENCES BEHIND 'EM!!!! I'D LOVE TO SEE THE SURVIVING ORIGINAL BEACH BOYS GET BACK TOGETHER 1 MORE TIME! WHY CAN'T BRIAN WILSON MIKE LOVE AL JARDINE HAL BLAINE DAVID MARKS GLEN CAMBELL AND BRUCE JOHNSTON DROP THE LAWSUITS AND GET BACK TOGETHER ONE MORE TIME FOR US FANS????!!!!

It's kind of funny because his info's always wrong.  Last week he played a '4 preps' song "standing on the corner" then talked about how the 4 preps influenced Brian Wilson and the beach boys. 

Y'all make it really hard to resist with the picture of Blondie, Ricky, Ed Carter, maybe  Billy Hinsche and Dave Marks...I could really get on board with the idea of something really tasteful and dignified- like a soundstage show in Burbank similar to what  they did with SMiLE, including a few special guests and a great songlist.  I'd love to see them kind of lay it to rest with dignity, like the Beatles did with Anthology, and I'd particularly love to see Brian and his cousin repair their lifelong friendship. 

But I guess I just have some trust issues after Stars and Stripes.  Y'all are envisioning a sort of Beach Boys maven experience, and I think what would happen would be more like a McDonalds hamburger, to continue that analogy.  Not to disparage McDonalds or fast food, but I don't think it's the way most of us reverent fans perceive The Legacy.  First of all, I think there would be almost zero interest in paying homage to non-hit periods of the band.  Brian's Roxy shows and tours have been maven experiences, more or less, and so were the Endless Harmony soundtrack and Hawthorne Boulevard.  But this would have more perceived value and I'm afraid they'd be playing to the cheap seats- or trying to.

Second, and more sadly, I have a fear-call it a paranoia or a cynicism-  that the relationships involved would be restricted to handlers and agents.  I'm afraid that the guys who sat in Brian's Rambler listening to the radio are beyond recall, and that makes me sad in the way that "Caroline, No" makes me sad. If that's the case I'd rather the reunion (which I think is inevitable) was private and personal rather than public and professional.

Cam, talk me out of it.

Thanks for that, bdn- it was a mind-blower.  I could appreciate it more now.  Of course, Blondie turned up again when I saw the Stones in Anaheim a few years back.

Joe, there is a diff between saying what I think SHOULD happen and what WILL happen.  I doubt there is a chance in Hades of them even getting Brian and Mike on stage together, much less Blondie and Ricky.

Of course, understood.


Really, Jeff?  I totally agree on Blondie and Ricky; don't even know if they're that interested; but I've tended to think that an eventual reunion of the others is inevitable.  It just seems like history points to it. 

But one big point in your favor (among several) would be that I think Mike regards his current band as the Beach Boys and might be hesitant to mix that situation up, and of course Brian's people are a very big issue, too.  I'm sure they see him as the goods, and would probably want a lot of control, and realistically, the relationship with Mike there is probably much worse than the one between Brian and Mike personally. 

The other big thing is time.  Will it even be practical when they're seventy and beyond?  So maybe if it's not quite now or never, it's at least soon or never.

You may well be right, but I've been surprised to see several people including you take the "hell-freezes-over" view- I just hadn't thought of the situation as that extreme.

I think you need to consider that Dave Marks was part of the genesis of the BB's...and added to the format that became the BB's signature sound. You can say, "Did the BB' ever record a Dave Marks composition?" No. But I can say "Did Blondie or Ricky play on any significant BB's hits?" No. Dave Marks played on the first half dozen classic BB's hits and the first four major hit LP's. He was part of the formula that made the BB's famous and succesful. The story was already written by the time Blondie and Ricky came into the picture. That era was great...they were both great additions for their time...but they had nothing to do with why the BB's became icons of the culture. You might say Dave played a minor role musically...that's at least arguable....although I'd disagree because i know more about what went down in the pre-BB's era. And it is a fact that he and Carl brought the Fender electric guitar sound to the BB's table. And he was there when the band went from a local act to a national phenomenon. I agree that the classic lineup is the Mike, Brian, Dennis, Carl and Al ...64 - 65 lineup...but the next most important guy in line to me is Dave because he was there at the begining when the band "happened". This isn't an attempt to put Bruce, Blondie or Ricky down...they were all great. But the original "Hawthorne" Beach Boys are the six that are on the monument on 119th St. And those six guys should be considered the founders. When the Landmark folks were ready to immortalize Mike, Brian, Dennis, Carl and Al on the state historical monument it was the Wilson family who insisted that Dave be included too.The BB's were already of legendary stature and their name a household word before Bruce, Blondie or Ricky joined the mix.   

IMO, Bruce's voice on God Only Knows and California Girls alone makes him the next most important BB after the classic 5.  Of course, this is all kind of silly, and I'm looking forward to reading David's story when the book comes out.

Jon -- Very well spoken.  I really shouldn't have singled out David Marks.  And I didn't mean to criticize him.  By the way, I am very anxious to read your upcoming biography of him.  It sounds absolutely fascinating, and no doubt will fill in many blanks in the Beach Boys history that have never been covered from any other angle before.

My point really is that Ricky and Blondie were official members of the Beach Boys for several years, two studio albums, and many tour dates.  I personally think they contributed a lot to the group -- not just the three fantastic songs they wrote and recorded for release on CATP and Holland.  They gave the group a huge shot in the arm as a live act and also in the studio.  Ricky's drumming adds so much, especially on CATP, as does both of their guitar work and keyboard playing.  Their singing (particularly Blondie's) was a big part of the mix on those albums, not just on their own songs but on Mess of Help, He Come Down, Funky Pretty, and of course Sail on Sailor, as well as others.  I happen to really love those two albums and I eternally regret that the group did not keep going in that direction.  Much as I love Love You, MIU, and Light Album, I still think something was lost after Endless Summer came out and Ricky and Blondie left the group.

I am not in any way suggesting that Dave Marks should not participate in any reunion.  I would love to see Brian, Mike, Al, Bruce, Dave, AND Blondie and Ricky together on stage (or in the studio), along with all the great sidemen that have contributed so much to the Beach Boys over the years -- such as Billy Hinsche, Ed Carter, the Dragons, etc.  Will it happen?  Only in heaven.  And then, of course, Dennis and Carl will be on stage too.  (No, I'm not crying, I just got a piece of dust in my eye!)

Anyway, I apologize if I disparaged Dave Marks in any way.  As I said, I look forward to your bio very eagerly.

Again... there is no California Girls or God Only Knows if there wasn't three years of hits and sold out concerts before them. The BB's worked very hard to build the cache that Brian so nicely took advantage of in the Pet Sounds era. Bruce's first gig had screaming fans most of whom already owned several BB's LP's that he wasn't on. Dave's first gig with the BB's in early '62 was in front of 50 kids at a local dance, half of whom had no idea who the BB's were...his last gig in '63 was in front of 20,000 screaming BB's fans all of whom came there for one reason...to see the BB's. He helped the group get from point A to point B...they'd arrived there long before Bruce was involved. The addtion of Bruce may have helped keep them on top...he was a great asset. Bruce is a great singer who sang on some of the BB's all-time greatest songs...no doubt about it.  But It's a very fundemental thing...point B is irrelevant without what came before.

Hey no apology needed...you make a great case for Blondie and Ricky. I agree that any reunion would only be enhanced by their inclusion. And also Billy, Ed, Meros etc... I love them all.

BTW...I live for these type of discussions...because they let me air out my "context" concepts. My opinions are an evolution through learning.  I used to think Dave Marks had no real importance other than the fact he looked cool on the early LP covers. But I found out through research that isn't quite the whole story. He may be the fifth, sixth, seventh or eighth most important Beach Boy...that's not the relevant point. What is relevant to me is that people should know he was part of the act that went from a group who had barely gigged and didn't have record contract...to the nationally famous Beach Boys with a pile of hit singles and hit LP's. Then he left and the BB's just kept getting better...for awhile.   

Jon, I lean strongly towards your view on the importance of the evolving period, but it goes beyond that for me- history aside, I just love the music from that period.  If the Beach Boys had broken up and vanished in 1963, they'd still be by far the most significant act of a great genre- they were already well beyond Jan and Dean in my opinion, by virtue of "Our Car Club" alone- and I'd still have all of those albums and spin 'em all the time.

I'm amazed- and very pleased- that albums like "Carl and The Passions" continue to find a younger audience- it's enhanced the pleasure of those albums for me.  But that early stuff apologizes to no one- it's a treasure trove of classic vocal surf and sixties pop music.  They were being screamed for by 20,000 at that stage, but the artistic influence was out there in 1963, too.

The only way this story makes sense to me is if it has some kind of overarching emotional significance for Brian, Mike and Al. If re-forming and singing together allows them to process some measure of  the bad blood, hard feelings, rage and jealousy that has stalked them for, oh, the last 45 years or so, then it'd be worth it for them. But if it's just another catalyst for MORE miscommunication, insults, hurt feelings and (inevitably, it seems) litigation, who needs it?

I'm eager to be proven wrong, but in the abstract I just can't imagine the guys -- along with Bruce -- coming up with anything new or different, or even re-establishing their connection to the spirit that once animated the band. Or the sound, for that matter. Losing Dennis was tough enough. But without Carl onstage  it's just not the same band. Having Dave there, or Blondie and Ricky, or the best of the old bandmembers, or even Brian's current band, doesn't even come close to making it the Beach Boys. Or making their performance of "Pet Sounds" better, or even as good, as what Brian already did with his group.

And maybe I'm wrong. Maybe, if this does happen, it will be transcendent and lovely and everything I just said -- and all the other even worse stuff I'm thinkin g-- will be revealed as nonsense. But if it were up to me, I'd rather see Brian at work on a new album with Darian, Probyn, Jeff and the guys.  Or on the road with them. Or doing anything with people who haven't spent the last 45 years seeing and speaking of him as if he were their own private, ill-performing, oil well.

I wouldn't see any problem with resticting a concert to members who participated in making the featured album.  If it turned out there was a tour to follow I think it would be cool to fill in with some or all of the other dudes mentioned but logistically and fairness-wise it seems like it could be a bear to sort out.  I would think that Mike's band would be given some sort of preference as the band of the elected license holder and the band that would theoretically be left to take over when/if the reunion tour came to a conclusion.

As long as they ditch Kowalski, I guess that would be decent....

(sorry but I can't stand Kowalski's drumming style when compared to Jimmy Hines, Bobby Figeroa or Todd Sucherman...)

I don't know anything about Blondie or Ricky, but I think Brian and Mike are closer than everyone thinks.  Even if you drop the family part of it, they have tons of contact I'd imagine through their record label even if most of it is all lawyers.  I've been following Brian's posts over on the blueboard and interviews and things with him and Mike pretty close for the last couple years because I'm such a fanatic, and Brian or Mike mention talking to each other from time to time.  I think their public image looks horribly estranged but I think in reality they still talk from time to time and I don't think Brian would have a problem appearing on a stage with anybody in the world.  The only argument is going to be about the bands, and I think ultimately for a 1-off, Brian would just appear with Mike's band if worst came to worst.  Mike is the only one with any interest in the Beach Boys name anymore; Brian's said frequently that Mike can have the name he's cool with that.  So If Mike insisted that he's STILL the Beach Boys (with his current band) Brian would probably just appear on stage with what Mike insists are the Beach Boys.  I think at this point Al is just down to do whatever Brian wants to do, and Brian was already making appearances with a stripped down band for the christmas album. 

And as for whoever was saying that this was a 'career move' for Mike, Mike has no career and neither does Brian, they are what they are and will be that until they're gone.  Mike will always be able to tour as he does now and do his thing, and Brian will always continue to do his thing, there's really no careers to damage or hurt, it's not like Mike's next album is going to go triple platinum if Brian appears on stage with him somewhere.  In reality, this 'appearance' or whatever it's going to be will be centered around promoting Pet Sounds to new listeners, it won't help or hurt Brian or Mike's careers. 

Peter,
      If I read your comments BEFORE Brian's recent tours (after 1999), I would concur with you. But somehow, Darian, Jeff, Probyn and the guys pulled off the nearly impossible. With no disrespect intended, if they can make Brian Wilson sound good, they can make anybody sound good. And that includes the 2006 Beach Boys. That is, if they're involved.

I'm not concerned about Mike or Al or Bruce or Blondie or whoever sounding like their former Beach Boy selves. I think they would rise to the occasion and sing quite well actually. I'm also not too worried about how they appear on stage together (i.e. loose, animated, happy!). They waited a long time for this. And I'm not worried about the reproduction of the music itself - I'm sure whatever backing band is chosen will get the job done; there's too many pros involved on all sides, and they would understand the importance of their roles.

My biggest concern is Brian's ability to ADJUST to the format of a new show. Brian succeeded because his shows were so structured, rehearsed, fine tuned - and basically they covered his ass. They would have to do the same thing at a Beach Boys reunion show, make the music sound "Beach Boyish". But I'm confident they would step up to the plate and do it. BUT, will Brian hit his marks, stay on cue, and maintain his focus for the duration of the show? Will he CARE like he did at his own shows? I hate to drag her into this debate, but Melinda is going to be a key player in many ways.

Yeah, I'd like to see Mike Meros, Ed Carter, Billy Hinshe and all of the familiar faces. But the one face (and voice) that would be essential would be Jeff Foskett's. It would be essential that he fill the role of Brian's "shadow" and assist him in any way that is necessary. In addressing Peter's point, Jeff could also fill the void of Carl's voice when he's not doubling Brian. I would hope that Mike and Jeff could settle their past differences "for the good of the team", and that Jeff would be open to the project...

I have no sense that Mike and Brian are secretly close. The ongoing legal struggle -- the lawsuit launched by Mike -- is such a personal attack, prefaced by so many years of bitterness, and hung on (what seems to me, anyway, as) such a thin legal hook, that the thought of them exchanging smalltalk seems very remote to me.

All of which indicates to me that this entire conversation of a re-formed Beach Boys in November, 2006 may be theoretical, at best.

And I don't mean to be a buzzkill. But sometimes the dream is over and you've gotta deal with what's left. In this case, it's a functioning, absurdly prolific, world-touring, "Smile"-completing Brian Wilson. And who among us would have imagined that ten years ago?

I agree. It appears Mike would need Brian more than the other way around. (this is pretty much the way it has been thru their lives)...and it would seem that the decision is Brian's, and he will decide (along with his wife, Melinda) if this is a good move for him. If he feels any hesitation, he will kiss the whole project goodbye, as is his right. Mike can then sue, and legally wrangle, but the last word is Brian's. Personally, I hope he leaves the whole mess alone, and let sleeping dogs lie....He has made his name with the BB's. History has already been made. In my mind , the book on the Beach Boys was closed with their last #1 hit in the late 80's, and it has been Brian's solo career since then. If I want to hear a post-1987 Beach Boys record, I put on a Brian cd.

Hopefully it will be alright if some of us who see more than just Brian to cling to continue to speculate.  

I don't see any reason to think that they have not always had a loving relationship, the Boys and Brian I mean.  I'm sure Brian's illnesses and addictions have kept him from being able to hold up his side of the relationships for many years but the Boys don't seem to be too bitter about it to me, I doubt Brian is too happy about.  I think them being able to get back together with Brian being in a place able to connect and reciprocate as he often seemingly couldn't in the past could be, by far, the best and most therapuetic that has or will ever happen for Brian and maybe the other Boys.  All speculation of course.

Imo, Al v. BRI is the only uncalled for and cynical litigation. Past suits for infringement, slander and theft by deception were justifyied to mind, but this latest suit, Mike v. Bri et al, is still in litigation so I guess we don't really know on it yet.

With Peter Carlin and Jon Stebbins around, this should add a new twist to The Thread....

But Brian is now semi-officially retired, by his own account.  Part of that may depned on how the litigation is resolved.  But he's sort of hit a wall as far as his solo career is concerned.  He overtoured last year, as it were.  He has strong appeal in some markets, and they were overexploited.  In others, he never did that well.  How his solo recording career is going remains to be seen, in terms of whether he's coming up with new material and the quality of it.  Some of his prolific output of recent years was from the demands of others, not of his own doing (GIOMH comes to mind, and the Christmas album, which would have made a better EP than LP).  Of course, there is the triumph of BWPS. 

As for Mike, he continues to spin his wheels.  But he's been doing that for 40 years, so that's nothing new, he's used to it.  It's just that his skill is disappearing, and his audience is shrinking.  Al Jardine ain't going nowhere, just getting some nice little gigs here and there.

In other words, it might not be that weird for them to get back together.  I'm not sure I'd like to see it, but I can see where all three of them can see the allure, if the drawbacks don't heavily outweigh it.  It's just going to have to be a new ballgame if it happens.  Brian is going to have to be engaged or it won't work, and Mike and Al are going to have to give him some respect.  It might happen without hell freezing over, you never know.  I don't think Al would shoot his mouth off if he didn't feel something were up, at least potentially.

Personally I think its inevitable. Its the only way they can command a significantly higher industry profile  than the one they each have today. Like it or not...the novelty of a BB's reunion will get a lot of media attention. I can't see them resisting it...ego, payday, closure, just the instinct to reach for the maximum general appeal. I'm not saying its going to be pretty...but I'd bet it will happen sooner or later.  I'd hope that Brian does it for the fun, and not because he feels obligated or pressured. 

It's easy to fall somewhere between being pretty cynical about even the possibility of a reunion, and thinking "anything is possible." I'm thinking about the logistics of it all, and I think while a one-off "reunion" show seems possible, a full-blown "reunion" tour seems less likely. Doesn't Mike Love's "Beach Boys" book shows a year or two in advance in some cases? They may already have shows booked into 2007.

If Al and Brian were involved in a tour, I would doubt that either financially or logistically it would simply consist of Al and Brian joining the current touring band that Mike heads. If a new band and financial setup had to be made for a reunion tour, what would happen to all of the shows booked by the Mike/Bruce "Beach Boys" for that year?

It seems unlikely that they could do a reunion show late this year, and then decide if a full-blown tour could work. If they did that, they'd have to either wait until 2008 or later to do it, shoehorn it in among the Mike/Bruce dates (what kind of confusion would that cause?), or somehow take over the bookings that Mike/Bruce have. Anything is possible, I suppose.

Either way, I could easily envision a reunion show or even tour, followed by Mike and Bruce going back out on their own just like they have. I don't see a reunion as meaning either a retiring of the BB name, or a revival of continual touring from all of the members. A reunion could conceivably happen completely seperate from any band licenses or touring that Mike or anybody else does.

Back to the "who's band" question: I don't believe that Brian and Al would jut be added to Mike and Bruce's band. Melinda won't let that happen. And I also don't believe that brian wants to ork with those guys, after knowing what a great band he has. They are probably the highest held band in the whole business, so to use them could even make sense for Mike....

What does Melinda have to do with anything?  I don't think she's going to have the final say in anything.  Brian Wilson is Brian Wilson, Melinda is just his messenger (hopefully).  It's going to be up to Brian and his band members to negotiate among themselves and with the other parties as to what role they would play, since they are musicians and know how those things work.

There's no way you would have Brian's entire band touring in that situation.  There's too many of them, particularly singing members, and you're definitely adding three singers, minimum, with Al, Mike, and Bruce.  The current Beach Boys and Al's congregation of former Beach Boy members might deserve a bit of action, too, if they're good enough singers and musicians.  I'm not sure how many of Brian's band members are suited to being a back-up for that type of outfit, either.  Just in terms of their being able to swallow that, depending on how it shapes up.  It will be interesting if it comes to pass.

I'm tending to believe that this is in the works.  I read the BB Britain board today, since I've read that Bruce sometimes posts there.  Sure enough, he did post, but denied knowing anything about any reunion.  He did mention, however, that the Beach Boys have no plans in the forseeable future to tour England.  Since that's a prime market, maybe they're keeping it open just in case they do reunite there.

Blah.  Bruce is just reduced to a sideman for Mike @ this point (with the exception of Bruce's solo stuff which of course he controls himself).  I don't think when we're talking big business with the BB's ANYBODY picks up the phone to confer with Bruce (must as I love him).  The last  televised BB's performance I saw they didn't even show Bruce on camera although he was clearly sitting there playing and singing.

I doubt there will be a tour but I do believe they'll all get on stage even if they don't perform. 

I'm not so sure about a reunion getting a lot of attention. If would have to be done extremely well for that to happen. I'd say there are two primary markets here in the UK. The first is the Mojo readers, i.e. the older generation who have grown up with the Beach Boys. Sure there will be media attention aimed at that target audience but I doubt anymore than a Brian Wilson tour. The second is the key one: my generation, the students/indie kids who's interest in the BBs is generally not for the surf/car/girl hits, but for Pet Sounds/Smile and after. If this market can be exploited (which it really has not been so far) then this could be a hit, because I am constantly amazed by the amount of people I see and talk to at uni who love the Beach Boys. But it would require serious good management which I'm not sure would happen. Mike and Bruce would have to be told to dress respectably. Brian's obvious discomfort in front of interviewers and cameras would have to either be played up (the mad genius) or he would have to be kept away from the exposure. And IMO Al would have to be the lead singer to give it any dignity because he still has the voice. There would be a fine line between this being quite 'cool', and it being a joke.

To me that seems to be a really difficult task, mainly because I can't see Mike and Bruce taking the risk. What's more likely is Mike whines through the hits, Bruce smiles and claps along in a pair of shorts, Al is left in the background, and Brian is made to look foolish and risks losing that young fanbase. And also, I don't think it will happen if it's on the condition Mike would have to retire the Beach Boys name.

Hate to be a downer, but if it does happen it will be handled badly, look completely lame and probably suck. Just like all the other times.

Appearances on Full House, Baywatch, rapping with the Fat Boys. The more these guys get together the more they tarnish their own images. Everyone remembers how lame they can be. If Brian gets on stage with a bunch of guys in Hawaiian shirts, he's going to undo the "career renaissance" of the past 7 years.

Wyndham, very interesting take.  Heywood, worst-case scenario!  (and my concern is that you may be right, actually).

I think the key element is that Mike is never going to give up the name or retire.  Therefore anything he does here has to be something he can undo.  The key, as Wyndham hit on, is marketing.  I don't think they would market a reunion to any niche or take a maven approach to the college crowd- I think they'd be looking for the 100,000 people in Washington on the Fourth of July days, or as near as they can get.  BRI has probably got lots of research speculating on the financial value of a reunion.

So how do you sell the difference between these Beach Boys and Mike's (beach boys) without delegitimizing the latter act when they come back around next year?  This would be a momentary fling for Mike; the other bit is his answer to the musical question- what are you doing the rest of your life?

So anything would have to be done on his terms there, but even to work out what those terms would be is possibly a bit problematic.

You have to figure that Brian is asking himself, "What's the point?"

You have to figure Brian is asking himself, "Where's my steak?".

             :lol

Agreed, that's about as far as we can go into Brian's thought processes with any real confidence.

I don't think Brian is that indifferent.  The Beach Boys were his group, and he still feels that way.  He's very proud of what he/they accomplished.  What they became is something else.  But it could be a way for him to associate with the Beach Boys name without being sued for it, then collecting the financial and public relations capital that could flow from that, both within the project and for any solo work he undertakes in the future.  It's just a matter of him being able to control his negative emotions and asserting himself within the framework of a reunion.  For Mike, it doesn't matter if he goes back to a Brian-less and Al-less Beach Boys, unless, of course, he loses the license or just decides to retire for his own health.  He's already toured as the Beach Boys with and without Al, Carl, Dennis, and Brian.  It's the status quo for him.  As for Carl not being there, Brian is really his substitute.  He would do most, if not all, of Carl's leads.  He subbed for Carl in the early '80s when Carl didn't want to be there, so he can sub for Carl again.  Carl really was a sub for Brian in many ways, so it works.  If there is a reunion, of course.

I wonder if Capitol Records is providing any impetus behind this, if it is associated with the 40th anniversary of the release of "Pet Sounds."

The one thing I believe we can say for certainty is that there is no way in hell that the Beach Boys name is going to be 'retired'.  The minute Mike stopped using it or whatever (Like that would ever happen) Al or even Brian himself would take up the mantle.  The Beach Boys are like Batman. 

Anyways,  everybody keeps ignoring as well that Brian has said consistantly that he's happy that Mike still tours as the Beach Boys.  He's said that in countless interviews, because, oh, I don't know, BRIAN MAKES MONEY OFF OF IT!  Artistically, everyone knows the BB's are dead, Carl Wilson and Dennis Wilson are gone.  It's impossible to go back.  Brian has no artistic interest in the name anymore, he has no interest in making Beach Boys music because he's "Brian Wilson" now and that's a good name in it's own right.  He obviously has no problem letting Mike pay him to use a name he no longer needs artistically. 

Personally, I hope that it happens and it's a total disaster and it makes it uncool to like The Beach Boys again. Might separate some of the wheat from the chaff.

Good old days... "Now, seriously, you don't like that crap... C'mon, I don't believe you like those wussies..." then the guy would mock the high vocals from the coda of Fun Fun Fun.

Now all I get from people is "Yeah, Pet Sounds is great, I have a copy". I can't wait for the Pet Sounds backlash, in fact it's already started.

Exactly.

When is there going to be a backlash against backlashes?

No, I figure he's asking himself "Can I have birthday cake if it isn't my birthday?"

[tee hee]

Brian's live solo shows have been generally well received and by most accounts very well done. By accident or design, he has consistently delivered quality shows to his fans. Past embarassments notwithstanding (and I'm talking 25 years ago, give or take), why would anyone assume that his committment to good musicianship and music would all of a sudden end with a renewed association with his ex-bandmates?

So, in other words, you live your life concerned with what others think?  Gotcha!

Surfer Joe I think you're right about differentiating the current Beach Boys and a Beach Boys reunion. It seems to me the only way to get around that is to have Al keep touring with them afterwards. I don't think anybody would expect Brian to go back out on the road with them long term, but it seems to me that Al is still a keen Beach Boy. Plus if Al goes back maybe Matt would too. Maybe we could have a 1966 parallel on the 40th anniversary, the Beach Boys go out on tour and Brian sits at home writing a masterpiece    :lol

Can I just ask why the change in BB personnel is any different to any other band.  Take Fleetwood Mac for instance, who have changed band members more times than hairstyles.  They're still going, by the way...

Admittedly, Brian has had an intense amount of PR for his place in the group status (so it's not much of a reunion without him) and - well - he did write most of the songs, with help.  But it is quite possible for a viable, reasonably authentic group to exist with one or so original members as long as they are being true to the conceptual musical purpose and principle of the group (and they have a back catalogue to support it).   It's always nice to have as many surviving original members involved as possible, but not necessary.

A reunion wouldn't affect anything, even if I thought it would happen, and I'm slightly doubtful...
By the way, hello to the forum.  :hat

In this case, personnel = musicians playing in the background.  Mike's standards of musicianship are definitely lower than Brian's and it shows in the performances.  All three surviving original members have their own bands.  Most of the long time BB backing band is with Al, Brian has Foskett and the Mints, and Mike has patched together a new crew of BB members.  If all three perform together, who is the band?  And how well do they play?  It DOES matter.

Just like with Fleetwood Mac.  I saw them with Lindsey and without Christine a few years ago and the show was a dud.  Extra musicians did a chunk of the work and it was fairly passionless.

Bruce sez he hasn't heard any plans for a reunion.

 Bruce Johnston said yesterday on the BBB board...the only thing he knows about a reunion is when he plays a CD of original BB music.

                   Butch

I like the way you think.

Welcome Lola Jane.  Keep up the word.

Hey guys, new to the board, but long time reader. I am not too sure, but check out the Beach Boys Band web site. Is that Jeff Foskett with Mike Love and Bruce at that Stamos party. It's a picture link they have on their main page. I say that here because there is some speculation as to whether or not Jeff would be involved in a reunion. They all seem to be getting along at a private party, why wouldn't they get along on stage in front of many people probably for a good amount of money.

http://www.beachboysband.net/JAMESA.htm

Quote:
>In this case, personnel = musicians playing in the background.  Mike's standards of musicianship are definitely lower than Brian's and it shows in the performances.  All three surviving original members have their own bands.  Most of the long time BB backing band is with Al, Brian has Foskett and the Mints, and Mike has patched together a new crew of BB members.  If all three perform together, who is the band?  And how well do they play?  It DOES matter.<

In fairness, all of these bands have had their good and bad days on stage, judging from the various comments made across the boards.  The average fan isn't going to mind if it's Mike, Brian or Porky Pig playing the hits, as long as they're true to the original sound and intention.  It might not be 'right' to an aficionado, but it's sort of true.  The band is whoever is playing the songs, as long as there is at least some original members present, to prevent it from being a tribute band.  A hackneyed version of the current backing members could call themselves the Beach Boys as long as they wheeled an infirm Brian Wilson onto the stage in twenty years time, and had him hand clapping in the back (and ostensibly call him the leader of the tour group, whether true or not).
I'm not saying I agree with it, but trying to create the real Beach Boys is like chasing a dream and won't be resolved via a reunion.  The Beach Boys is whoever holds the trademark. 

The real Beach Boys hit the critical list in 1983 and died forever in 1998 IMO.

When I think of how this might be promoted or advertised I think of the first Jefferson Starship tour of the early seventies.  

JEFFERSON STARSHIP

Grace Slick
Paul Kantner
David Frieberg
Perter Kaukonen
John Barbata
Papa John Creech

and listed featured musicians.

I was a pretty big fan of the fragmented Jefferson Airplane.  I saw the add in a paper one day.

It prominently listed the personnel seperately in letters as big as the group name.

SO

It could be

THE BEACH BOYS

Brian Wilson
Mike Love
Al Jardine
Bruce Johnson
David Marks

featuring
Jeffery Foskett
 Darian Sahanaja
Chris Farmer
Scott Totten
MikeMeros
Ed Carter
Mike Kowalski

This alleviated some of the confusion over just who you would be going to see.

Donald when you list it like that, with five undisputed real Beach Boys there they would have every right to be a strong lineup of the REAL Beach Boys IMO. Sure Carl isn't there but Brian would be, which he hasn't really been for a good 30 years. Throw in Blondie and Ricky and it would be a fantastic lineup. For a Pet Sounds concert, the only song where the original singer would not be present is God Only Knows. I think people are forgetting that Carl is not SO necessary because Brian would be there. 

Works for me- hadn't thought of that at all.  That legitimizes the post-reunion band and probably leaves everybody happy except for a few lawyers.  Brian's appearance in a resulting DVD or CD could provide that "final" aspect for marketing purposes and the needed closure for him personally and for the fans.

If Dave is feeling well enough to stick around to any degree, and if he wanted to, you'd have four indisputable sixties Beach Boys still touring.

The only people who fear a reunion like that are those who considered Beautiful Dreamer the final word about the Beach Boys.

Well, you have an excellent point.  There's a picture right there from last month with Jeff Foskett sitting right next to Mike Love and Bruce Johnston singing Beach Boys songs. 

Yea, so if anything, the two camps (BW and ML & BJ) have some sort of communication going on, whether it's about a reunion or not, at least sides seem comfortable enough to mingle at a party.

Have mercy!

Mike looks like Darth Sidious in one of those pics...

I believe Bruce said Mike Meros was there on keys also, which brings in Al's "camp".

Who's the blonde dude with the black eyebrows? ???

Looks like Jimmy Armstrong of Papa Doo Run Run.

He's more machine than man....twisted and evil.....

Zing!  :lol

This has quickly turned to Star Wars lol.  :afro  Just throwing this one out there, because I know people have done it with the Beatles. Would anyone be opposed to Justyn Wilson and Carl Wilson (Dennis's son) joining the group as replacements for their father. Carl plays drums and Justyn plays guitar in their band In Bloom. It's just a thought, but wanted to see what people thought while getting the thread back on topic.

Charlie

throw in the Wilson sisters and Jardine's son you can replace the whole band!

Add some of Mike's kids and this is the Beach Boys of the near future.

Whether or not a reunion happens, I don't think Foskett being in the same room as Mike and Bruce has anything to do with it. I think Foskett was there because he's a friend of Stamos, as are Mike, Bruce, and numerous other folks.

It isn't like that's the first time somebody from one "camp" appears with somebody from another "camp." Randell Kirsche (who I think is also in that picture of the Stamos get together) has played with both Al's band and Mike's band. Carnie and Wendy worked with both Al and Brian in the midst of the various lawsuits. Matt Jardine and Bruce Johnston worked with Brian (albeit in 1998, prior to the various "camps" being so clearly defined). Phil Bardowell played with Mike and Bruce, and now he appears with one of the off-shoot "beach" bands featuring Matt Jardine. I think Foskett and Scott Bennett from Brian's band do gigs with another off-shoot band that features Billy Hinsche from Al's band. Foskett and Hinsche have done gigs together.

These instances of crossing over and working together was what made it even more sad to see both Brian and Al (and David Marks) all appear at the Hawthorne Landmark event, yet not sing together. It was kind of sad to see Al get up and do that karaoke thing with "Sloop John B" and mention he was doing it only because he didn't have a band, and then see Brian get up seperately and perform while Al watched from the side of the stage. All the while, Billy Hinsche was there not performing with either one of them, not to mention David Marks. They all could have sang together without it being a "Beach Boys" reunion. I would actually think that with Mike and Bruce not there, it would have been easier to perform together since it would have avoided having to call it a "reunion."

Add some of Mike's ex-wives and you've got a full-blown women's choir! ;)

On the right note, I agree with HeyJude. And will say this much -  Just cos a bunch of guys can sing together as friends doesn't mean anything about "camps", resolutions or whatever.  It's a shame the remaining Beach Boys are not singing together in public but I don't see that other folks, their fellow stage musicians, have to quit being pals just because their paymasters are involved in some dumb litigation. The photos are nothing mor than a bunch of folks having fun. They don't mean that Jeff Fiskett's having Mike Love's babies or anything.

I think you two are missing the forest for all the trees.

All we're saying is, Jeff and Mike obviously don't have any animosity towards each other, so it'd be pretty easy for them to both participate in a 1-off reunion show.  That's all.  Others have insinuated that Mike would NEVER WORK!!! with Jeff and the rest of the band but here he is photo'd right next to the guy and they're not even punching each other. 

Yeah...and as far as BB's crossing over into other "camps" goes...David Marks has played three recent shows with Mike and Bruce (including one last week), and several shows with Al in the last six months. He does shows with Foskett and Billy in the UK and U.S. too. Plus he's still real friendly with Brian whenever he sees him.

Seeing as people aren't too worried about straying into other people's camps, what actually constitutes an official 'reunion'?  Does it mean a hybrid get-together of camps for a quick jam, or an actual re-convening of original members only (back-up not required)?  I know this sounds like nit-picking, but people seem to have widely differing ideas about what's involved (ironic as some original members don't seem to know anything about it, and some original members aren't even invited).

There have been nine "official" Beach Boys in the 45 year history of the band. Seven of those are still alive. To me...the only legitimate reunion would be one that included all of the remaining BB's in some capacity...Brian, Mike, Al, David, Bruce, Blondie and Ricky. Anything less would be...less.

Add all of Mike's other kids, official and unofficial, plus the ex-wives, as the audience and they're back playing arenas. 

Did you all know that there's a town in Brazil (Vila Do Miguel Amor) made up entirely of Mike's progeny?  They speak a very nasal version of portuguese and even the women are bald.  Most of them were refugees at some point; deported from various other countries, usually following Mike's solo releases.  They are known to be a very friendly, though quite litigious people.  Distinguished by their hairlessness and exotic styles of dress, they are such prolific breeders that it is believed that within twenty years over three quarters of the Brazillian population will be relatd to Mike.

Man, I feel really bad starting this whole "camp" in quotations thing. But thank you Ron for realizing what I was trying to say. I just mentioned it because there had been people on the board saying that Mike Love and Foskett would never even consider being in each other's presences, but here they are. That's all, nothing more nothing less, no mountain out of an ant hill. And another reason that I brought up Foskett, is that fact that he's been around a while, what, 25-26 some odd years now, so he's not just some random back up band member, he's seen the band's ups and downs (Dennis's and Carl's death, etc. downs, the great 4th of July shows, Live Aid, Farm Aid... ups), and with the current band he plays an integral role as pseudo Brian (with the falsettos and all).

No apology needed, slickman, you made an important contribution to this conversation.

As much as I'm excited for this reunion, it'll probably be the type of thing where

A) It's in Europe somewhere
B) The tickets get sold out weeks before they officially go on sale
C) Even if you do end up getting a seat it's in the nosebleed section and you'd be better watching it TV
D) And it still costs $75
E) It won't be very good anyway

I'd much rather have them play some dinky casino in Atlantic City or a "county fair" (where does everyone come up with that? how often do Mike & Bruce actually play county fairs?) or something like that.. cheap, intimate, real.

And Brian's bass vocals are terrible compared to Mike's. I always laugh when I hear the new version of Little Saint Nick.

So if Ricky and Blondie aren't involved it's not a "reunion"?  They were in the band for what 2 - 3 years at most?  Great guys and great musicians but their lack of participation frankly doesn't mean much.  IMO Ed Carter and Billy Hinche have about as much claim to being Beach Boys...maybe more.

Look...the reunion is Brian, Mike, Al, and to a lesser degree Bruce.  Anyone else is icing on the cake.  I'm not exactly pining for a reunion...sometimes it's just better to call it a day.  Maybe a farwell tour would work...but Mike will never stop.  In 10 years the "Beach Boys" will be playing at retirement homes, county fairs, and high school reunions.

ITS A LUV THANG

 i  seem to agree...i still cant get that awful vision of the summer of mike love baywatch
video out of my mind. please brian, do not do that zz top van halen devo dance conga line again...pleeease!!!

It could just possibly be handled tastefully...like the campfire sequence of the "Endless Summer" mini-TV series.  Nothing to be ashamed of there.  Also, the '93 so-called "unplugged" box set tour (albeit Brian-less) was still very high quality.   Granted, without Carl, it will  be tougher to sound that good.  But it's not hopeless.  It's best to hope for the best, but expect less, then maybe we'll be pleasantly surprised.

Ahhhh..a very Zen approach!!

I don't really think Blondie, Ricky, and David are all that needed.  I'm more curious to see how the leads would be broken up since Brian and Mike now have essentially the same basic range with Wilson having a little more falsetto in his.  Seems like Al could pick up a lot...

Listen up all u BB purists/completists...if thats really what u desire for an 06 BB reunion...well then u must bring John Stamos in also.!!

Now how do you feel??? Bruce, Al, Brian, Mike & possibly another Jardine, or Mr. Marks and this is fine w/me.

Perhaps blondie & ricky w/ no Carl is a moot point to them anyhow.

Without Ricky Fataar or John Stamos, there'll be no one on drums!

They have Kowalski...  ;D

Why not Brian? This would be an interesting surprise.

oh puh-leeze, Bri can barely play piano live and sing at the same time nowadays...with that said i'm goin' to work. Peace.

Not true. Brian plays on Surfer Girl and several sections of SMiLE. He has, what, three keyboardists behind him so he can concentrate on singing. To assume that he can't play is a bit much.

I think that the living members of The Beatles might as well get back together to do a 40th Anniversary of Revolver too! ;) ;)

Add David Hasselhoff for extra authenticity.

Me too and throw in a few Beatles 2.0 [progeny] too.

While I'm not interested in a Beach Boys reunion, I have thought about as a comparison why the Stones have remained so succesful as a touring act over the last 10yrs or so. They have 3 originals plus a replacement, the same as Al's "Pet Sounds" Beach Boys idea.
The comparison stops with Carl and Bill Wyman. Bill never had the profile Carl gained by singing leads of course.
But the success of the Stones, and I think more so since the hits stopped, must be put down to Jagger and any assistance he gets as managers. Had the Beatles still be going I find it hard to believe McCartney could pull off the same series of average albums followed by such high earning World tours.

So back to Al's concept. Good management may have been able to put something together. Of course not on the Stones scale. Think about it. The bad blood and mental breakdowns alone would be a publicists dream, not to mention deaths and court cases. Most of the news stories about Brian since 99 have highlighted them.
But of course The Mike and Bruce show has rolled on during this period. Had they stopped in 97 then the public may have had some interest today. Look at "Cream" last year. But I now just can't see it working.

Why is that? Is it the medication? During the Brian Is Back heyday of the 70's and early 80's, he's playing the piano with the band. Well, actually they have some many people on stage with them, who would notice if he was screwing up. Still, I actually want to see him play. It looks weird for him just to sit in front of a synthesizer.

That is a great comparison. Losing Carl Wilson is as significant to the Beach Boys world as losing John Lennon was to the Beatles. You couldn't have a reunion without them.

I don't believe that's true. I think you can always have a Beach Boys if Mike and Brian are there. Unless it's going to be a post-Pet Sounds focused concert that is, which is extremely unlikely. I consider Carl to be more in the George level. If George had died before Lennon nobody would have quibbled about Lennon and McCartney being the Beatles.

Since George was 10x the musician Lennon was... I would have a problem with that... Ohhhh, I'm nasty. :p

But seriously, gimme All Things Must Pass over ANYTHING Lennon has done solo...  Or McCartney's Ram for that matter.... *ahem* what were we talking about?  ???

Gimme Plastic Ono Band over anything the Beatles did.

I love George Harrison, and he was very, very talented and an important asset to the Beatles, but I'd say him and Carl were comparable as to their importance to each band.  Saying Carl is equal to Lennon's importance is a bit much since Lennon wrote nearly half of the Beatles tracks and sang lead on nearly that many too.  Plus, he was f***(n' JOHN LENNON!!!!!!!!

Amen to that, bro!!!!!!! except beatles fr sale rubber soul+revolver.

The dilemma for the touring Brian Wilson is that to be a front man, Brian should concentrate on singing instead of playing keyboards. This a good thing, because when I go to see Brian, I want to hear him sing the best he can. Now Brian likes to have a teleprompter available so he won't screw up the lyrics to the songs. Since it would look awkward for Brian to be standing or sitting on a stool center stage staring at a floor monitor for an entire concert, it's logical to have him sit at a keyboard with the prompter on top of that. Of course, now everyone complains that he's not playing the keyboard very much. Well...he doesn't need to because he's got Darian, Scott and Probyn to play the keyboard parts so he can concentrate on singing.

Brian's comfort level with performing affects all of this, and those who saw him on the last tour may have noticed that he relied on the teleprompter less than in years past (at his Michigan Theatre performance in Ann Arbor in Oct. '04, he delivered a splendid lead vocal on "Add Some Music..." with nary a glance at the lyric sheet). He has also performed a delightful boogie woogie piano intro to "Marcella" recently and continued to play bass while singing lead on "Barbara Ann" and "Surfer Girl".

This is old news, of course. If a BB reunion happens, then Brian would not necessarily have to be center stage. We may find him stage right singing backing vocals...and playing the piano just like in the 70s.

Yeeeeeees! Please give Brian a big white piano to play onstage!

Ahh... that would be so cool.. and would make Brian seem more... natural and human.

Something just hit me..

Most days I wouldn't even care if I just dropped off the face of the Earth, but now I feel my life won't be complete until I see the reunited Beach Boys, no matter how bad they are.

They'd better not only do one concert, and have it be in England..  I'd be so pissed.

So Brian plays Vegas on July 1st and the Mike'n'Bruce-show on July 2nd, is that true....? hm....

Re: Brian & Piano

I posted about it back then, but Brian did an interview that was played on XM radio with some guy earlier this year, and he was wailin' on the piano the whole time.  Believe me, he still has it and his style is really heavy handed and boogie woogie like jerry lee lewis or something.  He even played little intros of 2 or 3 beatles songs the guy asked him about, and did a really cool version of "Da Doo Ron Ron".  I imagine he plays a lot of the stuff on the studio albums still because he still has a really accomplished interesting style of playing... i'm not talking just pounding some chords, he does really delicate fills and runs and things the whole time he's playing that are really cool to hear.  That interview was great!

I agree, Ron, that Brian is accomplished in his playing style. He has a quirky r and b "jerry lee' feel to his style, like you said, heavy handed, and a wonderful feel for the bass notes on the piano that defines his style. a great left hand. I would have him play on any record, any time...

Yeah!  He played "Da Doo Ron Ron" (I think that's what it's called, forgive me!) and it wasn't like the original, it was kind of doubletime (Like the end of Surf's up) with all kinds of crazy little r&b stuff going on just in the groove of the song. 

Remember that story Linda Rhondstadt tells of Brian doing that song with her?  She said that Brian was laying out all the harmonies in the studio, and even though it was a slow song... when he was trying to finish the last little bit of it, he went to a piano and she said he played this boogie woogie rock and roll groove that had nothing to do with the song and sang a harmony part over it... then they went to the record and  it layed in perfectly. 

Crazy.  It must be a pleasure for his family and friends to hear him play from time to time little stuff like that, pretty interesting fellow.