The Smiley Smile Message Board

I just cranked this song up recently and I thought "Why on earth didn't they work on this and release this as a single?!"

It's such a good song and with proper promotion could have full well have hit number 1 somewhere.

I love Soulful Old Man Sunshine (or should I say Shunshine), any reasons why they scrapped this?

Agree wholeheartedly... If they ever had a Number One resting in the vaults this was it.

The topic's been thrashed out many a time here... Search function should reveal all! ;)

and then, there is 'The Spirit of Rock and Roll'


.....another 'could have happened, but didnt'.  ???

If that was the case, wouldn't he have just re-recorded the vocals?

This song is simply stunning. I can't understand why they never released it. Someone tell me, where exactly does he say "shunshine"? I don't notice it, or at least anything so bad it would prevent the song's release.

Maybe this has already been discussed somewhere, but as we have a new topic here anyway... What did Brian do, what did Rick Henn do? I know Rick arranged the music and Brian arranged the vocals, but who composed the main body of the song? If it was Rick Henn, they guy is a genius. This song is among BB's very finest.

Oh that. Come on Carl, that's barely noticeable! I'm not native English speaker, though, but in his double-tracking 60's heyday Mike garbled many lines far worse than that.

yeah I always hear that as "Soulful old man shine shine, shine your light.... "
But then it maybe sounds a lil creepy.

IIRC, Brian and Rick Henn wrote the tune, but Rick did the track session - Brian then took it to the group, who weren't very enthusiastic (the fools!) so after some initial work they junked it. It was in bits and pieces in the vault (like, nothing approaching a finished mix of any of the elements). They assembled it (which apparently wasn't easy) for the 93 box, Carl wasn't happy with his vocal from back then - the flub, mostly - so it waited until Endless Harmony.

Yeah, this would have been insane to release as their first Warner Bros. single. Top ten for sure. It sounds like Stevie Wonder.

I love the song but at the time, it seems that the Beach Boys were sort of trying to present a hipper, earthier image, and I'm not sure if a song that jazzy and sunshiney would have been the smash you all seem convinced it would have been.

BUT IT'S JUST THAT GOOD!


I'll stop drinking coffee for the day, methinks.

But if Henn was mostly responsible, that could be part of the reason of why it was unreleased.  At that time at least, Brian was always reluctant about releasing material that he didn't feel was really his.

I think that just had to do with the growing animosity between the band and Brian/Landy.

That, and Spirit of Rock & Roll is really bad.

This.  It doesn't come near SOMS.

hmmmm????

Eh, I don't think it's that bad.  I love the re-recording Brian did for the Hallmark album.  The song itself is pretty good, I hate the "Sweet Insanity" version though even that's better than most of the material on the '85 "comeback" album and any of the new material on "Still Cruisin.'"

Never heard that. Only the SI one...

For me the backing track for SOMS just doesn't quite work with the vocals. They sound slightly out of sync. If it was a more sparse backing track with a more prominent rhythm section it might have worked better. To these ears it sounds like it is; a backing track made by one person and vocals overlaid by another and the two don't quite mesh. Sorry.

Funny that this has come up, while looking for something else on The Guardian (UK) site, came across this article - more praise for SOMS ! :

http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2011/nov/23/beach-boys-soulful-old-man-sunshine

http://grooveshark.com/s/The+Spirit+Of+Rock+and+Roll/25vqCN?src=5

Just out of sheer perversity I love the Brian/Dylan version of "Spirit." It's so wrong it feels right for some reason. Every time I hear it I think how cool it would've been had Brian joined the Traveling Wilburys after Roy Orbison's passing. Never would've happened there at the tail end of the second Landy era, but Brian could have brought some rays of sunshine to that dreadful Wilburys II album.

You're kind of right, it is a bit uneven that way (although I personally love it over the top blaring horns), but the actual composition underneath it all is great. And the a cappella chorus hook, which reveals the boys' voices in perfect harmony... My God, sheer beauty.

I'm inclined to agree with this.

I like this song but there's something slightly off for me about it. It doesn't sound like a Brian composition to me so maybe this is why it wasn't released as an earlier poster suggested. Then again, it does remind me of some of the songs from the Adult Child era so who's to say it isn't a Brian original. Bascially, I know notheeeng.

I got a question.  Could it be that the version we've heard, wasn't ever completed back in the day?  For instance, maybe they never mixed it properly or something, so the boys never heard it in the beautiful unbelievable oh my fucking god I can't believe they never released this version that we all know and love?  I know about the Carl vox mistake, but hell anybody could have touched that up, they could have even deleted that whole line if they couldn't have taped either a new line or just spliced in something from the other 100 times he says "Sun" in the song. 

Maybe Mark finally mixed it or added the backing track or something and the guys never heard it complete? 

"Spirit of Rock and Roll" is horrible in every form it's been released in.  I DO think with major production work it could be a decent song because the concept is pretty decent.  The proof of this to me is that when you get to the end of the Hallmark version, and they drop the music out to where you just hear the vocal pads, it sounds pretty damn good. 

Am I right in thinking completed multi tracks for this are missing for the verse?  The verse on all versions I've heard is mono.  Did that come from a rough mix?  Hang on, I'll just check AGD's site instead :)

I think this song would have been lost on the 1969 audience, at least in the US.  It would have been a massive hit everywhere else. 

Personally, if this song had to be hidden away for so many years, at least we fans had the absolute joy of discovery the day Endless Harmony was released.  I still remember reading the posts on rec.music.artists.beach-boys and alt.music.beach-boys totally gushing over it. 

Well, the first time I heard it (on Endless Harmony) I was blown away.  This is a lost Beach Boys track?  It may have been cobbled together in 1993 or whatever...but the parts were there for a truly great song.

They still ought to release this as a single at some point, or get someone to place it on a movie soundtrack.

My mind is still boggled as to why they sat on this and didn't try to rerecord it.  It just screams hit.

the Endless Harmony soundtrack has so many absolute gems.

Soulful Old Man (both versions)
Humble Harv demo
Sail Plane Song
Breakaway demo
God Only Knows '67
Til I Die extended version

and I love me some WonderBill too.

Great song, but the wrong direction for the band. It sounds like the Spiral Staircase and other one-hit AM Top 40 bands of the era.

it's in the same vein as Breakaway, with the big swinging horn sound. probably wouldn't have been a huge hit but definitely should have been finished and released. not like they were having much luck finding the right direction in 1969 anyway.

I know it's a really unique sound, but I never bought the 'wrong direction' idea... it's not miles different from something like "I Can Hear Music", harmonies 10 feet deep, everything over the top, etc.  It was different but it's not like it was a country single or something. 

Yeah, I think so - maybe check the Linett or Boyd threads here?

Bingo! With 98.6's type melody in the verses.

There was a time when some though Pet Sounds was the wrong direction for the band!  ;D

I don't feel it would have been a good direction for the band in terms of their entire sound becoming this, but as a one-off thing it's just great and absolutely deserved a spot on an album back then. I don't know about hit potential, but again, it's really frigging good and deserved a spot on an album.

*insert Rieley's "they blew it" quote*

I think it's pointless to talk about directions with Beach Boys' golden era. Their albums were all over the place! All I Want To Do sitting snuggly next to The Nearest Faraway Place, and an album side starting with an ancient folk song ending with something as cutting edge as Cabinessence. And that's one of the reasons why I love them. Screw directions, let the music show the way!

Good point - and all the better the case for this song having a spot on an album back then. Can't change history, obviously, but yeah. YEHAH#@HFiii

Carl's 'shunshine' flub was the reason that Carl didn't want the song on the '93 box, but I think he had issues with the song when it was recorded, which is why they never finished it in the first place.  I may be one of a very few here who thinks the song is just okay.  I like the big group harmony part, but I'm not fond of the 'feel' of the track.
 

does anybody else hear drips?

I used to love this song. Then AGD commented on how someone had told him this song sounds like an ad jingle for shampoo (or something like that). I can't listen to it any differently now.

Yes. sh*t drives me crazy, as they sound much like a sound assigned to error messages on some super old version of a Mac or Windows OS - I think the former.

Personally I don't like this song and don't think it would have been a hit. Just my opinion though!

it sounds pretty much like it coulda been right next to Add Some Music To Your Day. And wasn't Al still working on Loop De Loop when this was recorded? Hah, the fool!

Yes....Thoughts of  Old men in the shower washing their hair while the sun shines on them while humming stevie wonder,,hhhhhhmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. :lol

Whatever turns you on.

Ahhh, is that AGD in the shower?

Imagine an A/B single with "Soulful Ol' Man Sunshine"/"Loop De Loop". The charts literally would've exploded, a release of Icarus proportions.

But no, these chumps left that in the can and released a Bruce Johnston tune as a single. It's a crazy world...

This one sounds more Rick Henn than Beach Boys to me. If Murry had produced the group then I think this is what it would have sounded like.

Talk about wishful thinking.

As far as the finished product sounding more Rick Henn, it's likely that Henn came to Brian with the genesis of the song and Brian fleshed it out (think "Sweet Mountain"). On top of that, Brian was supposed to produce and arrange the song, too, but didn't show up at the studio session. As a result, Henn had to guess what Brian would've wanted. I think one of the great what-ifs of the late '60s for the BBs is what would've happened if Brian had shown up....

I think Brian's demo of the song is great but the completed version is only okay. Just think of the song done Wild Honey style -- I think that sort of white-boy R&B thing is where Brian might've taken it based on his more interesting phrasing.

I LOVE this song but like others here, I'm not so sure it could have been a big hit, had it been released. Apparently, Rick Henn thinks the same. Here's what he had to say about the song in an interview with Stephen McParland during the 80s. (Excerpt from Stephen's 'California Music' fanzine, issue 74, 1988)


Then about the vocal date with the Beach Boys:


For the record, I think Rick Henn (and the Sunrays output) is vastly underrated & unjustly dismissed by many a Beach Boys fan as mere copycat clones. Personally, I think a lot of their songs were quite cool and with a great use of brass that give their songs a lot of drive, - not that different from the feel of Soulful Old Man Sunshine. Rick was a great singer - I love the snarl in his voice on 'Don't Take Yourself Too Seriously'- his vocal during the verses is almost more punk than pop. >:D

Every time I read about how this song stiffed because The Beach Boys couldn't give a f*** breaks my heart. IT'S SO GOOD. We're really lucky it survives in the form it does, all credit to Boyd & Linett.

I agree.  Love the song.  What a find!

Thanks for the quote, kwan_dk.  This is exactly the reason why I'm not so keen on the song.  Too swingy...and yeah, very Vegas.  I'm not surprised that Carl didn't like the track.  A better track would've done the song wonders.

I think it could have been a hit, agree with the Spiral Staircase comparison somewhere above. However, I don't think it would have been the single they were really looking for....it would have been a hit in the sense that "Do It Again" was. A catchy pop song that teens and record buyers connected with, but nothing to really solidify The Beach Boys as a more serious/substantial entity.

Maybe they should have just aimed for making catchy pop songs at this pint - they were so good at it!

If the track didn't turn out the way Rick wanted it to, it's not because of the session musicians. It's because he couldn't assert himself as a producer.

I agree. Unlike Brian who knew how to extract what he wanted from each musician it seems Rick gave out the sheet music and they played. Perhaps he said it wasn't quite what he wanted but didn't have the ability to tell them what to do differently.

How hard was it for Rick to say to the studio players 'guys, I want a tight rock shuffle for this track'?

Today, it would be fairly easy to digitally fix the 'shunshine' mistake.  Just for the heck of it, I was able to make a pretty good repair by borrowing an 's' sound from another section of Carl's vocal along with a slight extension of the boys' background harmony patched in to replace the 'sh' sound.  It's just slightly noticeable but if this was done with the multi-track masters, it would be seamless.

While you're right, I wouldn't have the track any other way, as its utterly amazing.

And Dennis Dragon - he edited the instrumental track together from many takes. Someone who's seen that master told me it looks like a pedestrian crossing, he used so many splices.

My favorite Beach Boys/Brian era by far.

That it - "shun-shine"might be "repairable" was always my thought.  I think it would be very cool to have almost anything with Carl's vocals, such as Soul Searchin', Don't Fight the Sea, and Soulful Ole Man Sunshine on a new release.  Or, stuff that Dennis might have had recorded that might not have been released or "alternative version" of what has already been released.  Or, even a "live" version of You Are So Beautiful.  The live stuff is among my favorite, warts and all. 

Such an incredible song. It's an explosion of joy.

Yes, yes, yes, it is!    ;)

True.

Oddly, in one of his comments throughout the interview with Rick Henn that I quoted from above, Stephen McParland specifically lists Murry as the producer on the session and Rick serving as merely the arranger. Later on, Stephen again mentions Soulful Old Man Sunshine as a 'Murry & Rick production.'

In Andrew's & John Tobler's Complete Guide Beach Boys book only Rick is listed as the producer - and right now I don't have the Endless Harmony booklet handy. Is Rick listed as the producer there as well?

No matter what, I wonder which input Murry had - if any...

Carl felt the song sounded corny like a Vegas lounge act (the singer could be snapping his fingers as he sings the verses) and supposedly had trouble singing the song because he kept laughing.  I see where he could get that from the music and the verse melody, but the vocals really transform the song into a Beach Boys jazz pop classic IMO.  If Brian had stepped up to produce the track it would have been even better.

Remember this is also around the time they worked with terry Jacks on Seasons in the Sun - an execrable song and totally wrong for the Beach Boys, but it would likely have been a hit as the subsequent version certainly was.

Some songs just have that effect of inspiring a giggle...there were songs I would sing with some of my classes, and, we would invariably just "burst into laughter."  Alan did such great work with "Don't Fight the Sea," really painstaking with his Postcard album, that I think this song might deserve the same review, of course with Brian et al. 

It would seem that there's not an endless catalogue of Carl's vocals.  Sometimes we just get goofy over a song.  The fans just embraced Carl's and Dennis' vocals during C50.  Maybe it is time to take a second look at whatever tracks might be available to rework it.  Just a thought... ;)

The finished product does have some cheese to it, but so does a lot of the stuff on the radio. You have to wonder if it could've been an oddball hit. It wouldn't have done anything for the Beach Boys reputation, except maybe to remind people of their basic mastery of pop music.

I don't find it cheesy at all

i do find it so.  ;)

Yes, you do "have to wonder if it could've been an oddball hit!" Bravo!  ;)

"Cheesy" and "Oddball"  :lol, I don't get these descriptions.

We're not talking about Kokomo are we?  ;D

I didn't quote the "cheesy" but "oddball" in the context of "out-of-the-blue" hit, and absolutely no pejorative context.  ;)

The vocals and energy are superb, and the orchestral/instrumentation backup. 

Of course, my opinion.  ;)

Wow, I'd never heard this song before, but just checked it out on Youtube. A shame it was never released at that time!

But I think it would have sounded better on 20/20 than Sunflower, though I release it was too late for 20/20.

Ah man, it's too good. I wouldn't have it produced any other way. There's a reason why it was my first choice of things to cover in the collaboration project (but I did produce it in 'ANOTHER WAY') - it's such a wonderful tune! Maybe a retread of fun & sun in the title, but it has such verve and joy in it - 'No wonder I can sing a song about my baby' is such a sentiment - but goddamnit, you can analyse whether the arrangement is too jazzy (and what the f*** is wrong with a bit of jazz, I ask you) but it just makes me feel so good, I can brush aside such handwringing. If you don't like it, play it louder.

Sure, it's oddball. Who expects the Beach Boys to do swingin' jazz music in 1969? And it's cheesy in comparison to the image the Beach Boys were going for. SO THERE, YOU GUYS!!!

i did, the song doesn't do it for me nonetheless.

That's an interesting point of view diametrically opposed to my own. :) I always thought how much better the Wild Honey album would be if it sounded like Soulful Old Man Sunshine... :-D

A sacrilege!  Wild Honey is just perfect as it is!  ;)

Sometimes I think Wild Honey is perfect, but then I listen to the London '68 performance of Aren't You Glad and can't help but feel a little short changed.

Yes!!! That is when I started to feel the Wild Honey album sounds bad, when I heard that live version. There is absolutely no punch in the chorus of the studio version, and the great arrangement is a bit wasted. They should have done the tracks in a real studio and play and record the songs live threre. Of course that wasn't possible due to Brian's problems, you can't blame him really.

The London '68 version of Aren't You Glad definitely helped my appreciation of the Wild Honey version.

A bit of that lack of punch in the chorus has to do with the muddy mix methinks. I'd love to hear this in stereo, hopefully it isn't in the batch of Wild Honey songs unable to be mixed to stereo.

COMMENT:
Every time we worked on SOMS, instrumental sweetening or vocal placement, there was a lack of enthusiasm. I can't describe to you how it was except to say that we recorded vocals and other stuff for so many hours and never got to the end. With Brian removing his involvement and other songs more important to the other guys, this song just kept being pushed further down in the stack.  I have recorded so many odd versions or renditions -- experiments in vocal arrangements -- with this song, it finally seemed to come together at the end, but as I said, other songs were deemed more important for release. It was mixed several times . . . always with someone coming up with a "new" idea to add, thus making the mix obsolete. However there was a final mix done, but I don't know if that was what was released to the public or not. ~SWD

Very interesting Steve...  The "released" version is a cobbling together of various work tapes by Rick Henn and Darryl Dragon, done the old-fashioned way by razor blade and splicing tape.  It even switches back and forth from stereo to mono between verses and chorus, because those were the only rough mixes available to Rick at the time it was put together. It excites me that there might be a proper mix somewhere in the vaults.

Lee

Meh...can't say I'd agree with that.  "Spirit" was a so-so song; pretty lightweight and forgettable ultimately.  The only remarkable thing about it was that Bob Dylan sings on the unreleased Sweet Insanity version. 

I found the Hallmark version to be the epitome of dreadful; lazy vocal multitracking and a totally clueless drum beat. 

The lack of enthusiasm seems odd. I started to wonder if the enthusiasm was lacking due to a lot of the song being the work of an outsider, but then they worked on "Seasons In The Sun" about the same time.

So yeah, seems odd, as well as the fact that they never finished it. Maybe they just got exhausted and overwhelmed by it ala Smile? It's such a cool song, it came up on random for me just yesterday and there's just this sense of "Wow - this is so, so solid and should've been pushed to the moon as a single" whenever I listen to it after a while of not hearing it. I don't get it.

Thanks for the insight, Mr.Desper.


I didn't for the longest time, either. I don't normally bother with listening to the Beach Boys around my girlfriend as I know that, aside from a few songs, she's not a fan. One time this song came on while we were doing other stuff and I decided to let it go and see if she'd say anything. After about a minute she was like, "Is this the Beach Boys?", I said yeah, she said, "Sounds kinda... loungey." I got what she meant and yeah, it is, thus I can see why some might find it kind of cheesy.

Still, f*** it, the final edit is a fine, fine experience. The "explosion of joy" comment a while back was spot on. I wish the final mix would've been serviced as some kind of single or something with a lot of hype put around it.

Also, the full Brian demo doesn't circulate, does it? I'm definitely interested in hearing that, even if what we heard was just the most cohesive part of it and it's kind of a rambling writing session sort of thing.

It almost has a retro "big-band" feel...I find it the coolest "cobbled" song I ever heard!  ;)

^
Actually, it sounds very Motown-y, maybe like "You Can't Hurry Love" by the Supremes. Or something. But the refrain and melodies definitely make it distinctive. If they had released this I think most people on first hearing it, would have immediately recognized it as the Beach Boys, but might have been surprised they'd do a song like that.

I believe that at the time, the general public might have seen it as a move forward for the BBs.  The song does have a potentially commercial sound.....in a 1969 sort of way.

I agree... while of course Carl's version is awesome, Brian's version of the demo actually has the soul he's singing about.  I mean it really swings.  Carl made it a little too white.  I can say that, and it's not racist, because I'm white too.