The Smiley Smile Message Board

Round 2! Apologies to those overdosing on vs threads at the moment. Just a bit of fun, eh?!

I've chosen a 70s twofer again, purely because I suspect this has the potential to be another close call.

My vote goes to Surf's Up. Along with Pet Sounds it was one of the albums that reintroduced me to the group as arty music that was ok to like as a teenage Velvet Underground fan (I'd loved Made In The USA as a kid but kind of forgot about the Beach Boys in my early teens). When I first met my step dad he loaned me SU, along with Innervisions, Black & Blue and The Beatles blue box and a few others and they're all albums which hold particular sentimental value now.
 
Much that I love Sunflower, SU has a mellower, more subdued vibe (maybe bolstered by the brooding cover art) that never tires for me. I think the non BW tracks easily hold their own, with Carl and Bruce delivering their greatest imo.

I think I prefer the Brian songs here over Sunflower too, even if there are less of them. I love the melancholy of Till I Die and Tree, the latter probably my favourite from the album. The only downsides are the absence of Dennis songs, and Student Demonstration Time. Swap that for Sound Of Free and you'd have solved both these problems and created a masterpiece at the same time, but you can't have everything.

My prediction: 55% in favour of Sunflower ...

Both very good albums, but I prefer 'Sunflower' myself. If some of Dennis' contributions were included on 'Surf's Up' and a longer version of 'Til I Die' would've been used, this may have been a lot harder for me to decide.

Well said; I share this affinity for SU and find the mood well captured and consistent across most tracks.

I think SU is better sequenced, whereas TITM and OSL slow Sunflower side 2 down a bit.

I'm not gonna vote cause it's just impossible for me to decide: they are both on the same amazing quality, only difference is that they have an opposite feeling/vibe/emotion to each other.. and so that depends on my mood, sometimes i'll be more Sunflower and then my mellow side would digg more Surf's Up.

Although both are terrific albums,  For me Sunflower takes the cake..

The Second Dennis opens the album it's non stop magic from there..

Also, vocally this is my favorite Brian era, also possibly production wise

That's an easy one for me. Sunflower is my all-time favorite album. Surf's Up has some very good songs as well, but I can name at least four songs from that album that I like less than my least favorite song on Sunflower.

I like the idea of polls here. I chose Sunflower. While there are songs on Sunflower I don't think are special, but it's a pretty even listen. There are a lot of songs on Sunflower I absolutely adore: This Whole World, Deirdre, All I Wanna Do, Forever, Our Sweet Love.

Surf's Up has a couple songs I really like: 'Til I Die, Disney Girls, title track....and I think the two Carl tracks are good. The rest I could live without. I know Tree is something of a classic around here, I just can't get into it with those vocals.

Well at this early point (even if fleetingly) my prediction is spot on  :afro

The last minute makes up for the so-so vocals, especially Al at the end

Very powerful coda

Yeah - an absolute knockout..

Rieley's (is it?) vocals are a plus for me - they give the song an unhinged value that ups the melancholy and drama. It really sounds like some wheezy old tree singing it! I think the decision to trick him into singing, if true, was a stroke of genius. I find Brian's Love You era demos equally emotive due to Brian's  rough hewn delivery.

Talking of codas, the ending to Don't Go Near The Water is another highlight from SU, and this seemingly composed by Mike & Al. What a talented bunch of guys they were at this point.

Amen to that! It´s one one BB album I can listen to over and over again and not get tired of.

That surprises me, I would have expected about 75% for Sunflower.

Daryl Dragon...

I slightly prefer Sunflower but they are both quality albums. The only things that let Sunflower down for me are Got to Know the Woman and maybe Tears in the Morning. The former is one of Dennis` weakest songs and there were several better options around at the time.

Extremely torn between these two… but the closing trilogy on SU swings it… and any album that contains SU '71 is a winner.

buddha, I looove that idea.  "Sound of Free" is really great.  Oh, and my first thought is that your prediction may just be about right.  As for me, it's a tough call. I'm really back and forth on this one.  My gut says Sunflower, but then damn, we've a really big three to consider from Surf's Up that are each just so affecting.  Have to give the two a listen back-to-back.

Surf's Up should have been better, so I picked it.

Take out TALOYF and add WIBNTLA and take out SDT and put 4th of July and you have the Beach Boys 2nd best album.

...but it wasn't that album. The thing you voted for doesn't have 4th of July, but absolutely does reek of Student Demonstration Time. If we were voting for our own personal resequenced albums, polls would be much different (and pointless, 'cuz everyone's track lists would be slightly different)

Thanks I didn't know this. What's the story with this, and how come he isn't co-credited?

yah i'd like to know more on the end of don't go near the water.  I'd known Dragon composed it, but DAMN it's good. 

He composed the outro? that's like the best part, and when you think about it, it does feel out of place-i mean it's quite a surprise! wonder what's the story behind it.

I like Sunflower front to back, but I can't possibly vote it ahead of the album that has 'Til I Die and Surf's Up as well as two of my favorite Carl songs.

This is too hard for me.

Surf's Up. Sunflower is a wonderful, strong album, consistently brilliant throughout (except for TITM) - Surf's Up is more patchy, however to me it's highlights are amongst the absolute highlights of the bands entire career: Til I Die, the title track, Disney Girls, Carl's extraordinary, ahead-of-their-time tracks - these are songs of breathtaking quality. So Surf's Up gets my vote.

Now give us Wouldn't It Be Nice To Live Again already!!

That's what she s.....never mind.

Sunflower doesn't have a single moment that sucks. Surf's Up has a few, but the high points are higher than anything on Sunflower. Those three last songs leave me speechless every time.

Unless I'm playing my UK LP, then Al's Cottonfields opens it! And since I'm rating the two original official releases, this gives Sunflower my Vote (although it would probably win anyway)

Mama, mama, mama, mama, oom mow mow

 #flawlessvictory

As I did in the other thread, here's a ranking of all the songs between the two albums.  Sunflower in italics and Surf's Up in bold.

All I Wanna Do
Surf's Up
'Til I Die
Forever
Feel Flows
This Whole World
Slip On Through
A Day in the Life of a Tree
Deirdre
It's About Time
Long Promised Road
Cool, Cool Water
Got to Know the Woman
Disney Girls (1957)
Add Some Music To Your Day
Our Sweet Love
Don't Go Near the Water
Lookin' at Tomorrow (A Welfare Song)
Take a Load Off Your Feet
At My Window
Tears in the Morning
Student Demonstration Time

I've gotta give the edge to Sunflower, though I think both are essential Beach Boys albums containing IMO three of their absolute best songs in All I Wanna Do, Surf's Up, and 'Til I Die and a myriad of others that are in close company.  I think Sunflower is the better album overall though, having nothing as uninspired and jarring as Student Demonstration Time and, despite being a democratic effort, a tasteful blend of unity and variety.  Surf's Up has ridiculous highs and its darker edge is welcome, but would have greatly benefitted from the elimination of one or two tracks in favour of the Dennis songs which were left off.  The best of the twofers.

I love Surf's Up but Sunflower is one of those special albums that only come along a few times in a career where everything works.

Agreed.

Surf's Up has some amazing songs - the title track, Til I Die, Long Promised Road, Feel Flows; Disney Girls is very nice; Lookin' at Tomorrow is a good track. A Day in the Life of a Tree is so freaking odd....probably a turnoff for a lot of people, but I like it. I don't mind Student Demonstration Time, but I could live without Take A Load Off Of Your Feet. Don't Go Near the Water probably isn't that great of a song, but the closing harmonies redeem it. Sunflower, though, is just absolute perfection from beginning to end. I cannot listen to just one song from that album without wanting to hear whatever comes after it. Pet Sounds will always be rated the masterpiece, but Sunflower is my personal favorite BB's album.

Sunflower is an incredibly cohesive effort considering it's essentially the work and vision of an entire group of very strong individuals. Also, it's completely unpretentious in terms of overall style and lyrical subject matter.

Surf's Up, on the other hand, may have its flaws in terms of overall cohesiveness but personally I find it irresistably perplexing as an album coming coming from a group such as the Beach Boys. Kind of somber and brooding, much like the album cover suggests. Always felt this record played a major role in constructing the overall image we have of Brian Wilson after Pet Sounds and Smile.

Impossible to decide which one I like better.

"All I Wanna Do" is the greatest song ever writtin imo.

Come on! Too many people opting out of this vote on the basis that the choice is too hard  ^-^

Ok how about this? Your Arabian tent is on fire. You've already tossed out all the sandwiches and reddi whip cans but inexplicably you took your cherished copies of the Sunflower and Surf's Up LPs in there with you and now there's only enough time to rescue one! What's it gonna be?

Now how in the world did THAT happen? :smokin

In this case I'd probably take Surf's Up as that's the one that basically made me a dedicated (i.e. obsessed) BW/BB fan.

I'd save Sunflower's A-side and Surf's Up's B-side. That way I would have best of both worlds.

Although I would miss Forever... Damn, this is impossible.

I prefer "Sunflower" to "Surf's Up."  "Sunflower" sounds a lot more fresh, which is interesting since it went through several configurations before its release.  When I first heard the album, tracks like "Slip on Through" and "This Whole World" sounded so much better than previous efforts.  "Add Some Music" and "It's About Time" are other highlights from side 1.  Was never a big fan of the two Bruce songs or "Got to Know the Woman," but "Forever" and "All I Wanna Do" are other gems.

Regarding the "Surf's Up" album:  "Don't Go Near the Water," "Take a Load Off..," and "Student Demonstration Time" make side 1 awfully weak.  "Take a Load Off" is fun, but non-essential.  I thought of it, however, as soon as I heard the new "Isn't It Time."  Similar bounce on that one.  So where side 1 is 40% good, side 2 is all good.  "Feel Flows" is a great one, "Looking at Tomorrow" is underrated, and the Brian Wilson trilogy that ends the album is pretty awesome.  "Til I Die" being a gem.  "Surf's Up" works, but it sounds out of place.  

Some of the songs left off these releases are very good, but judging by what we got, my nod goes to "Sunflower" on this one.  

Since the twofer is the only version I've heard of these albums, I've always thought of them as one album.  It works so well, if not better.  The first time I heard it, I actually thought "Cool Cool Water" and "Don't Go Near the Water" were parts of the same song.  The way they did that with a water song closing one album and opening the next, it's almost like they were meant to be played together.  But overall, "Sunflower" has stronger material despite "Surf's Up" having some of my favorites ("Til I Die," "Surf's Up" [which I would argue works better on Smile], "Feel Flows," "Long Promised Road").  "Sunflower" flows much better in my opinion.  "Sunflower" also has less filler than "Surf's Up" does.  Even though it would be very short, if "Surf's Up" dropped "Take a Load off Your Feet," "Student Demonstration Time," and "Lookin' at Tomorrow" while switching the order of "Surf's Up" making "Til I Die" the final track (which is how it's done on the Good Vibrations box set), it would be a perfect album.

my vote to sunflower simply because I hate SDT and Disney Girls more than TITM and Deirdre. Sorry Bruce, you suck.

You rule at paying attention. 

While not intentional, some of those 70's Twofers have neat transitions, like the aforementioned "Cool Cool Water" into "Don't Go Near The Water", "Just Once In My Life" into "Let Us Go On This Way", "Winds Of Change" into "Good Timin", and "Endless Harmony" into "Getcha Back".

What's with all the hate for Got To Know The Woman? It's a fantastic track! The chorus is killer (love the female backing vocals) and Dennis is clealy having the time of his life!

It's a fun track. Okay, it's no Slip on Through or Forever, but I don't believe EVERY SONG has to be a serious statement. It's okay to lighten up and have a little fun.

I would say that though Sunflower is certainly a more consistent album, the high points of Surf's Up easily trump the highs of Sunflower, however much I may be pilloried for saying so.

Also, I can understand why people would dislike Take a Load and Don't Go Near the Water, both of those tracks have grown on me. At least they both have relatively interesting arrangements (especially Water, if it weren't for the cringeworthy lyrics that would be a first-rate track IMO).

Student Demonstration Time can eat a bag of dicks, though.

There's a lot to be said for that UK sequence. I think I prefer it kicking off with Cottonfields, and the inversion of Deidre/Gotta Know The Woman. Means I can listen to 5 songs before reaching for the skip button!

Edit - Question for the boffins:

Is the UK pressing/mix of Sunflower exactly the same as the US one in quality (except Cottonfileds which as I understand it is in mono and, er, obviously absent from the US one)?

I voted Surf's Up. It's more interesting than Sunflower, weirder and more contemplative (Disney Girls, Long Promised Road, 'Til I Die, etc), and has higher highs - Day In The Life, Surf's Up, the Carl tunes.... I love the dark vibe.

Lured to the dark side!  :jedi

These are my number 2 and 3 Beach Boys albums (after WH), and I tend to regard them as equal to one another. In other words, the Sunflower/Surf's Up twofer is my favorite "double" Beach Boys album!

I like Surfs Up better all the way! It's not as good as it could be with a few of Dennis songs on it. But that is made up with two strong tracks by Carl. I think it has more creativity then Sunflower. IMO, Surfs Up is to Sunflower, what SMiLE is to Pet Sounds.

Back in the day, when we were forced to be a bit careful about our love for the Boys, most of my friends in the "underground" felt Sunflower was a better overall record than Surf's Up, even though the two best songs out of the whole collection are (arguably) "Surf's Up" and "Til I Die." Even then, we were wondering why it seemed that there wasn't enough recognition of what Dennis was contributing as a songwriter, and his creative absence on Surf's Up was (and is) an all-too-noticeable one.

Both so good, and it's probably the toughest Twofer poll around.
But gotta go with Surf's Up, only because I'm on a Surf's Up kick at the moment!

Sunflower is my favorite, no one was left out  ;D

Just wondering, if Student Demonstration Time was left out as a non-album single, and 4th Of July and WIBNTLA were added onto Surf's Up, what would you vote for?

Now that's a tough one....wow... I guess I would go with....well,  if you took TALOYF away then I guess I would pick Surf's Up, it's too hard to decide for sure  :lol they're both awesome

TALOYF may be the worst song off the album, but it fits very well on it. Without it, Surf's Up just wouldn't be the same. Face it, TALOYF needs Surf's Up just as much as Surf's Up needs TALOYF.
SDT on the other hand may not be as bad, but it doesn't belong on Surf's Up.

hmm I don't know I've always found that song to be weird and pointless just the fact that that song made it on and WIBNTLA didn't makes me dislike it even more  :shrug but I do agree about SDT it doesn't fit at all

Sunflower is my all time favorite Beach Bots album, after Pet Sounds. Surf's Up is close for me too. The 'vibe' on Sunflower seems a bit more positive, and there are more group vocals too. Though Til I Die is the best of the collections, along with of course Surf;\'s Up.

This one is easy for me: Sunflower.

Surf's Up is quite inconsistent especially songwriting wise. I also think the sound quality isn't that good on some songs. Long Promised Road is almost ruined by the sound quality. Great album still.
Sunflower has very consistent songwriting and sounds great. Slip On Through, It's About Time, Add Some Music are my favourites.

Much as I like Sunflower----a kaleidoscope of an album----Surf's Up has to have my vote. Side one of the original album has its moments (most notably "LPR") but side two is a thing of staggering beauty. 

What about Al? He only sings a couple of lines on Add Some Music,

Yeah but he also co-writes It's About Time (brilliant) and At My Window (also brilliant). Does anyone know what Al's exact contribution was to the former? I've always assumed it was to add that awesome guitar riff at the end but I could be wrong...

Even though he wrote some of the songs it just doesn't feel like Al's there. They should've added Back Home or Susie Cincinnati.

You have a point.  I like his version of Back Home it's probably one of my favorite leads of his  :)

Surf's Up has some "meh" songs, unfortunately. Though 'Til I Die' and 'Surf's Up' trumps everything on Sunflower, the latter album is still way better.

What about the two Carl song off Surf's Up?

I love, love, love 'Long Promised Road' and really like 'Feel Flows'. Image if LPR was on Sunflower instead of 'Tears in the Morning'...holy crap!

This is a tough one. 

The greatest individual songs on Surf's Up are probably superior to the greatest individual songs on Sunflower.

However, as an album from start to finish, Sunflower wins out for me. 

I can even forgive Student Demonstration Time, but not Take a Load Off Your Feet. 

Whats rightly or wrongly considered their best group album versus a dated, forced attempt at being hip?

Yeah, give me Sunflower any day.