The Smiley Smile Message Board

I am ambitiously entitling this #1, in the hope that someone will run with the idea and poll the other twofer sets but whether this does or does not continue, I think right now (in light of the recent thread MIU/LA thread which has clearly polarized opinion) it's imperative that we establish ONCE AND FOR ALL, which of these lackluster slabs of turgid yacht rock/outsider art/sleazy cheese the board prefers.

By which I mean, YOU PREFER, and not what you think is technically or critically more impressive.

MIU for me ...

M.I.U., if only because it flows more like an album and doesn't have anything as boring as Shortenin' Bread or as grating as the disco Here Comes the Night.  L.A. has about 4 great songs that are only challenged by M.I.U.'s My Diane though.

'L.A', hands down. The band's last good album. (ok, until 2012)

To me, it's not really which one is most impressive, but which one is less offensive. They're both awful. These albums, with Summer In Paradise, are the holy trinity of awful BBs material.  That said, I own the twofer and listen to it every so often, hoping I'll find some hidden gem I had missed before.  I do enjoy "Baby Blue," "Come and Go With Me," and "Lady Linda"

L.A

Because Baby Blue, that's why.

That's all I need.

L.A.

L.A. "Light Album) has the greater songs, the higher highs. But, it also manages to be what few other BB albums fail to be: slightly boring. I love Carl and Dennis as much as anybody, but "Full Sail", "Goin' South", "Love Surrounds Me", and even "Angel Come Home" drag a bit. It's not entirely their fault; it's the production. Plus - like Summer In Paradise - Brian Wilson isn't even on L.A. (Light Album), unless it's a buried background vocal. "Shortenin' Bread" is inexcusable as an album closer. And then there's the 11 minute "Here Comes The Night"....Yet, I still do enjoy the album.

M.I.U. doesn't have the aces like "Good Timin", "Baby Blue", or even what I consider to be Al's best song, "Lady Lynda", but it is more consistently enjoyable. It kind of moves along with each member being featured vocally. I also think M.I.U. contains Al's best lead vocal ever in "Peggy Sue". M.I.U. isn't boring and I don't think any songs are bad. There's a lot of Brian, and, after Love You, his M.I.U. vocals were a welcome surprise. Dennis got his obligatory lead vocal; should have more Carl though. And it should have "Our Team"....

M.I.U. by a hair, because of the presence of BW.

MIU is amateur hour in comparison to LA Light, and it makes me cringe.

L.A. Light is one last attempt at quality, even progression, but its too late baby.  Its a noble, but sad album, with disco... just in case you weren't embarrassed enough by MIU.

L.A., without even a second thought. It is The Beach Boys' Rumours.

The bad stuff on both LPs is so bad that it makes this a really tough choice. I'm giving the edge to L.A, because the good songs on L.A are a little better. My Diane is really the only good song on MIU. There are other songs that I enjoy on that record, but it's overall not as strong on the better material on L.A.

I voted for LA, there's absolutely no contest imo.

L.A. - I've played it twice and M.I.U once. Come Go With me is the only song I'd individually listen to off of M.I.U, but then again, since I have L.A and M.I.U on vinyl only, the GV box set only gives me CGWM from M.I.U :D

I should enable multiple votes just for you RangeRover!

LA.

Because f*** 'em, that's why! *end Chappelle's Show*

MIU wins for "Match Point Of Our Love". I imagine Brian, clad in short shorts, being forced to play tennis by either Landy's or Love's goons, or maybe even Rocky Pamplin. He gives it his best and finds himself kind of enjoying it by the end.

When Brian gets home later that evening, he calls up Mike and says, "Hey, I have a really groovy idea Mike! Imagine if we wrote a love song from the perspective of sport - tennis, in particular. I have some good chords I've been dying to put a lyric to. The whole thing will be a smash!"

Mike, misty eyed, replies, "You wanna do a song? Like we used to? Well, alright Brian. I'll be up there in a half-hour. I just gotta finish meditating first."

Driving down the Pacific Coast in his vintage 1931 Studebaker Six, Mike imagines love as if it truly was a game of tennis, and the profundity of the metaphors that pop up in his enlightened brain make him wistful for his first marriage. Nothing is quite like your first love, and they had a child together.

---

The sun is setting now on Brian's mountain home, and Mike cracks a Coca-Cola open.

"So I was thinking the part before the chorus of the song should go, 'match point, match point, the match point of our love'. Whad'ya think?"

"I love it, Mike. I f***ing love it. Let's try it out," Brian says as he hits a C Major 7 chord.

Deep inside the bowels of his own reflection, Mike's soul leaps for joy.

^^^ Love it, Dada!

MIU is absolutely a Beach Boys record - the 50s vibe, the cornball lyrics, and the vocal arrangements are very reminiscent of the 60s group. But ultimately it is a FUN record and not a million miles away from Love You in feel and energy. The kitschy tracks such as Matchpoint and Kona Coast sit perfectly alongside the 50s covers as they share the same optimistic outlook (as do nearly all the tracks with the exception of My Diane). Plus the songs are, for the most part, very melodic which I put down to greater songwriting input from BW, although not having the credits to hand I may be mistaken there.

LA takes itself far too seriously. The Dennis numbers are fabulous but feel out of place (and undermined) by the campy Lady Lynda, Sumahama and disco number. This just doesn't hang together at all well as an album. And Carl's contributions are far too soporific and just don't hold my attention at all in the way that, say, Steamboat (equally sleepy, but for a reason) does. I'm consistently surprised by the respect some have for LA - I'd take both MIU and KTSA over it, any day!

I think 'L.A' offers more variety in the same way as '20/20' did. I wouldn't say any of the songs feel out of place, except for 'Here Comes The Night'. But then again, is there other Beach Boys album on which it wouldn't feel that way? I think Carl's and Dennis' compositions are the kind of material they were writing at the time and I wouldn't expect them all to come up with something that would fit well together. Let's admit it, they stopped working as a band once with 'Holland'. And to each his own, but do you really appreciate re-writings of  melodies they did in '63 just because they're fun over new fresh compositions by band members that actually put some effort into them?

L.A. is a bunch of great songs, marred by a couple of terrible ones.

M.I.U. is a bunch of terrible songs, which mar a couple of good ones.

L.A. every single time, no question.

First of all, LA supporters, you can't just ignore the 10 minute albatross that is the disco version of "Here Comes the Night".

When it comes to MIU vs. LA, I'll take "Belles of Paris" over a Carl snoozer like "Full Sail" any day. "My Diane" is a monster, the covers are inoffensive, "Wontcha Come Out Tonight" is a funky '50s rocker, "Hey Little Tomboy" has an insanely catchy melody (plus, I love the baton passing going on with the lead vocal),  and "Sweet Sunday Kinda Love" and "Pitter Patter" also feature brilliant bits of Brian melodiousness. "Kona Coast"  and "She's Got Rhythm" don't work for me, but that's not so bad.

Don't get me wrong, LA has its moments. "Good Timin'", "Angel Come Home", "Love Surrounds Me", "Sumahama", "Baby Blue", and "Shortenin' Bread" are all good, although I think "My Diane" destroys something like "Baby Blue". I prefer Brian's lyrical and melodic directness over the more ponderous stylings his brothers would often adopt. "Lady Lynda" isn't bad by any means, but talk about a cheesy song. At least "Belles of Paris" doesn't feel as earnest.

I always thought it would be cool for this board to have polls. Maybe we can do Weakest Link ones too....

LA is better on paper. More ambitious and artistic, with greater Carl and Dennis presence... But it's incredibly boring! MIU is cheesy, but fun. It doesn't put me to sleep, unlike its twofer companion.

By the way, am I the only one who thinks LA and MIU should swap covers? MIU should have the colourful cartoon panel cover, and LA should have the elegant, adult cover. That would make much more sense. I always get them mixed 'cos of this cover thing.

L.A. for me, no contest. It can drag in places, especially Here Comes The Night and Goin' South, but has great songs like Good Timin', Angel Come Home, Love Surrounds Me and Baby Blue whereas the only great song on M.I.U. for me is My Diane. She's Got Rhythm and Come Go With Me are quite good but the rest are just awful, especially Kona Coast.

I talked about them in the other thread, but perhaps the best way to demonstrate how I feel about each album respectively is to rank all the songs.  M.I.U. is in italics and L.A. is in bold...

My Diane
Love Surrounds Me
Good Timin'
Baby Blue
Match Point of Our Love
Pitter Patter
Angel Come Home
She's Got Rhythm
Sweet Sunday Kinda Love
Full Sail
Come Go With Me
Wontcha Come Out Tonight
Lady Lynda
Hey Little Tomboy
Winds of Change
Kona Coast
Belles of Paris
Sumahama
Peggy Sue
Goin' South
Here Comes the Night
Shortenin' Bread

To sum it up, a few L.A. tracks should have been replaced by almost anything else and it would have been vastly improved (or even simply addition by subtraction).  When I dislike over half the album (length-wise), there's a problem.  M.I.U. doesn't reach L.A.'s highs nearly as often, but I can listen to most of it without much trouble and it has its moments.  For that reason, I had to go with M.I.U.

Oh come on, it's the song Hawaii could have been! Great drum sound and drumming, too.

That's how I feel as well. 'Goin South' and 'Full Sail' are two of the worst songs in the entire canon to me (listening to them too long can send someone into a catatonic state).  This version of 'Shortenin' Bread' sucks. 'Here Comes the Night' goes on far too long.  MIU may be a bit 'dumb' and cheesy, but at least is fun (aside from 'Winds of Change').

LA, no contest. The only thing salvageable from MIU is "My Diane" and the only absolute clunker for me on LA is "Sumahama" (serious dentist chair music).

See, I love Hawaii but Kona Coast just grates on me!

LA .... Why are we even having this conversation?!?! ;D

Ooh man, that's a tough one.

"Love Surrounds Me" is one of my favorite Beach Boys songs period.. but then again so is "My Diane".

"Angel Come Home" is fantastic, but so is "Sweet Sunday Kind Of Love".

"Baby Blue" is genius, but I get just as much listening pleasure out of "Match Point Of Our Love".

Point being, there's stuff on MIU that can stand up to the best moments of LA. And MIU has the upbeat, fun element going for it.

I love em both, but I'm gonna have to lean towards MIU.

(dodges flying tomatoes)

LA by far!  LA is actually my favorite studio LP right after Friends!

I actually have quite a bit of time for MIU, but the lows are much, much lower than L.A.

I mean, She's Got Rhythm - surely candidate for worst vocals on a Beach Boys cut, never mind Bri's absolutely dreadful falsetto, but Mike's lead sounds like he's drunk and had the lyrics thrown in front of him as they rolled the tape. The backing vocals also suck.

Hey Little Tomboy. f*** that song. Same with Kona Coast. Both the products of absolute insanity.

Whilst Come Go With Me is a great cover (wish Al had left more of BW's ridiculous OTT arrangement in), Peggy Sue is limp as hell.

Really dig Wontcha Come Out Tonight. Whatever the hell they're doing in the intro with their voices - A+ Not much of a song, really. But it's charming.

Sweet Sunday Kinda Love - YES.

Belles of Paris - NO. Again, hate all the vocals. It's a pretty enough chord sequence, but POUNDING BW CHORDS don't do it justice. And the lyrics. Dear Jesus.

Pitter Patter - Even though it sounds like Mike and Al wrote this without consulting each other at all, this is great. Al lays it down. Dig the slide on the second verse. Would love to hear a 'big' sound on this. Maybe I'll cover it.

My Diane - Yeah, either this or PP are the best thing here. Dennis, man. He tears into that somewhat trite chorus and you FEEL THAT.

Match Point is kinda cool. If it wasn't about tennis. Great chords. Never want to listen to it, mind.

Winds Of Change. Yuck. Yuck Yuck. Mawkish f***ery.

I'd assumed the 'it's the song Hawaii could have been!' comment was being ironic... Kona Coast has no redeeming features whatsoever. Garbage.

I look at "Belles of Paris" as a latter day "Salt Lake City".

Did the do a promo video for "Matchpoint of Our Love," or did some fan assemble it with found footage from the era and set the song to it?  I found it on YouTube.  It's kind of cool to see all the band together including Dennis, and they all look pretty good.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qb9vV-H9ec

I like both, but prefer MIU.

Fan made. Song doesn't go with the clip.

Good Timin'
Pitter Patter
Wontcha Come Out Tonight
Baby Blue
Kona Coast
She's Got Rhythm
Lady Lynda
Sweet Sunday Kinda Love
Belles of Paris
My Diane
Angel Come Home
Come Go With Me
Love Surrounds Me
Sumahama
Match Point of Our Love
Hey Little Tomboy
Peggy Sue
Winds of Change
Full Sail
Shortenin' Bread
Goin' South
Here Comes the Night

If I were introducing the Beach Boys to a hipper then thou person, I would show them LA way before MIU. But I would have to say that MIU has more songs on it that I like. Much of LA is boring to me outside of Good Timin, Baby Blue, Angel Come Home and Shortnen Bread. Full Sail, Lady Lynda and Sumahama are pretty, but boring. MIU does have more corny songs though. So this was a hard decision to make. So I had to choose MIU.

I've gone into my reasons why I choose MIU over LA in the other thread, but I absolutely love Brian's shot falsetto on "She's Got Rhythm". Probably the most rock 'n' thing they did in that era. Then again, I've always been a fan of leaving in flaws in recordings.

(http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/458675_440927332596434_2027596290_o.jpg)

I Love I Love I Love My Calendar Girl...........

LA.

I think MIU is a more enjoyable album as a whole. It's not unpleasant as background music and nothing's terrible. LA is a bit of a mess, stylistically all over the place and with some pretty extreme high and low points. I usually skip songs when I listen to LA but not when I listen to MIU. LA gets my vote though for several reasons. One: nothing on MIU comes even remotely close to Good Timin', Lady Lynda and Baby Blue, those are really good songs. Two: it at least tries to be creative and progressive. Three: much more involvement from Dennis and Carl.

My list is not a million miles from yours:

Matchpoint
Wontcha Come Out Tonight
Baby Blue
Sweet Sunday Kind Of Love
Pitter Patter
My Diane
Love Surrounds Me
Kona Coast
Good Timin
Belles Of Paris
Hey Little Tomboy
She's Got Rhythm
Angel Come Home
Come Go With Me
Shortenin Bread
Sumahama
Peggy Sue
Lady Lynda
Full Sail
Goin South
Winds Of Change
Here Comes The Night


Fair points - I never understand the love for Lady Lynda though. I just can't get past the cheesy use of Bach (is it?) at the beginning, and that melody dominates the song throughout. I can cope with a certain amount of cheese when it's fun cheese like Belles Of Paris, but Lady Lynda just seems hopelessly square to me, although it seems I'm in the minority! I actually really like a lot of Al's compositions, and rate him on a par with (or maybe prefer him to) Carl in terms of the good BB songs he's involved in, but LL just doesn't do it for me.

It's not high art or anything, but I like it. Just a pretty song with a nice, peaceful mood and really gorgeous melodies (hey, if you're going to recycle a melody, why not just go for one of the best ever written?). And the fact that my girlfriend's name is Linda might help. ;)

Yep, LA is the only album where Al Jardine whips Dennis Wilson as a songwriter, with a little help from Mr. Bach. Way to go, Al!

...or actually, I do like Holland's California more than any of Denny's Holland songs, too. I admit, on that one Al drew from Brian's earlier work, but it still counts.

Yeah California, Looking Down The Coast, Take A Load Off Your Feet, Lookin At Tomorrow, Out In The Country - Al wrote some pretty sweet songs in the 70s, although I'm not sure how involved Brian was in any of those. It strikes me Al is closest in songwriting style to the Brian Wilson of Good Time, I'd Love Just Once etc. i.e. light, playful BW.

^ I'd say playfulness is a big part of Brian's Smile-era genius. Take a Load Off Your Feet is a straight continuation of Brian's Smile-era music. Loop de Loop, too.

Dennis was a better songwriter than Al, and certainly a more interesting one. Al was very hit and miss indeed - and seemed utterly unable or unwilling to distinguish good songs from bad - whereas Dennis' songs were consistently brilliant from 1968 onwards... Even when he was disintergrating in the late '70's his songs were still always of a good quality. He had the Wilson gift.

Al is also quite keen on plagiarism. Dennis is not.

Lady Lynda is nice enough. I really like the way it slows down towards the end, a neat touch.

Al sure likes his influences unfiltered, but he's still a great songwriter. For most Denny's songs I need to be in a certain mood, but Al's songs work anytime, anywhere.

And hey, Surfin' USA is only one example of Brian taking "influences" from some other songwriter. Doesn't make the songs any less great.

Confession time: I don't really care for My Diane. As far as late 70s Dennis leads on songs penned by his brothers, I'll take Angel Come Home any day. My Diane seems tossed off-- like Brian could've written it in his sleep-- and it drags. With that song out of the running, I will put on Pitter Patter on my two-fer (God I love that song! Really sounds like early 70s BBs) and skip through to Good Timin afterward.

This is a list of Al's "borrowing" that I made a couple of years ago in another topic, with a few additions by other posters:
* At My Window: Raspberries, Strawberries (Kingston Trio)
* California Saga/Beaks Of Eagles: poem by Robinson Jeffers
* California Saga/California: California Girls
* Christmas Time Is Here Again: Peggy Sue (Buddy Holly)
* Kona Coast: Hawaii
* Lady Lynda: Jesu, Joy Of Man's Desiring (Bach)
* California Calling: Surfin' USA
* Island Girl: Whispering Bells (Del-Vikings), Everyday (Buddy Holly)
* PT Cruiser: Shut Down, Little GTO (Ronny & The Daytonas)
* Lookin' At Tomorrow: The Wanderer (Kingston Trio)
* Postcard From California: Rhinestone Cowboy (Glen Campbell)

He's also good at finishing Brian's leftovers like Sail Plane Song (Loop De Loop) and his attempt at reviving the discardded "Back Home" and reworking it into something new.

Bingo.  I love LA...but that pretty much sums it up.  MIU!!!


Absolutely.  MIU is more varied, more fun and much, much closer to Love You in terms of it's interesting-ness.  I have to be more in the mood for LA... again, I love it too.


Well said.  MIU just feels more like a "Beach Boy" album than LA does.

Actually, LA would have benefited from being a double album.  Eh?  More room to stretch out.  More tunes would have lent more weight and substance befitting of it's glossy, chill and laid back production.  It could have been a new direction for the band!!  A little more sophisticated and polished.  Just like how Sail On, Sailor hinted at a more sophisticated, polished and mature Beach Boys in the early 70s, that sadly never blossomed (all that wasted time and money in Holland!!!)

Like Sail On, Sailor/Holland -- once again, there wasn't enough material to support the LA-era and everything just collapsed.  LA was a patch work if there ever was one (as the cover art suggests).  And with Keepin' the Summer Alive it was more of the same (a lot more and far worse) with even less new material than LA.  Even though Denny and Carl are largely MIA on MIU -- it's kind of the last of the original Beach Boy albums -- with Brian and without all the "outside assistance."

MIU

LA. Of course.

Fishy fatwā on you!

I cannot believe anyone is even suggesting Al is a better songwriter than Dennis. MIU fans no doubt... (Shakes head, plays River Song, all is well and right with the world)

Many of the comments on this thread point out how MIU and L.A. (Light Album) are completely different - and they are. However, interestingly, if you combine the two albums, they actually complement each other well. Maybe that's because one album (MIU) was very Brian/no Car & Dennis, and the other (L.A.) was very Carl & Dennis/no Brian. Yes, I'm at it again, combining albums. I can't help it. But, take a listen to this combination; it works well I think, especially lyrically:

The Beach Boys - M.I.U.L.A.

THE OLDIES:
1. Come Go With Me
2. Peggy Sue

GOIN' OUT DANCIN' TONIGHT:
3. Wontcha Come Out Tonight (to go disco dancing...)
4. Here Comes The Night
5. She's Got Rhythm (last night I went out disco dancing...)

THE BABY SUITE:
6. Baby Blue
7. Shortenin' Bread
8. Hey Little Tomboy

A CELEBRATION OF BEING TOGETHER:
9. Sweet Sunday Kinda Love
10. Good Timin'
11. Belles Of Paris
12. Pitter Patter

THINGS GOING WRONG, GETTING AWAY:
13. Love Surrounds Me
14. Matchpoint Of Our Love
15. My Diane
16. Goin' South
17. Kona Coast
18. Full Sail
19. Sumahama

COME HOME AND MARRY ME:
20. Angel Come Home
21. Lady Lynda
22. Winds Of Change
23. Our Team (optional)

Brian Wilson at this time was absolutely no guarantee of quality.

MIU for me because I can play it all the way through casually without cringing except once (Belles). LA has some much better work on it but HCTN is so long that it throws off the whole LP.

I can't stop laughing at this!
I had to grit my teeth and vote for MIU. LA is technically "better" but there are too many lows and boring parts. (I'm looking at you, Carl). I put on MIU way more often than LA because it is more consistently enjoyable. The dearth of Dennis on MIU is made up for by Brian's presence and their awesome team-up "My Diane" my favorite song on the TWOFER. Then again, LA is a way more mature album that doesn't have the Boys acting awkwardly like adolescents... I also prefer the production on MIU, it has a funky, cheesy '70s quality that is way more gratifying to me then the LA slickness foretelling the '80s. This would probably be the most difficult TWOFER poll for me to decide on.

Also, Sumahama rules!

Yeah, I don't really understand the love here for My Diane. I suspect the love is just because it's the only obvious Dennis vocal on MIU. I'll take Angel Come Home anyday over My Diane. LA is really a fine album, if you omit Here Comes the Night. My revised lineup for LA would cut HCTN down to 3 or 4 minutes (the single version), and add It's a Beautiful Day.

Dude, that's good.  I'ma gonna havta try that!!

My Diane is classic.  Dennis' vocal is welcome and nicely done...but the song is powerful. 

"Everything is WRONG and nuthin is RIGHT."

The dissonance in the harmony on both WRONG and RIGHT are achingly beautiful.  Kind of the whole point to the Beach Boys and Brian Wilson.  You need to rethink this!!   :o

...one more point I wanted to make about LA -- of all the Beach Boys albums, LA has grown on me the most.  It's crept up on me more than any other Beach Boy album, I think.  It went from shrug to hug (gosh that's a lame rhyme) more than any other BB album.

I still vote MIU...but just wanted to make that point.  Lastly I like Carl's snoozy LA songs (Full Sail and Goin South) more than Dennis' songs.  Ideally Dennis' songs belong on his solo album -- they're more "deep" or tortured.  I would have LOVED to have had a whole album of Carl's "Yacht Rock" LA stuff.  Sounds soooo good!!!


"Fuuuuuuulll Saaaaaaail!!!!"

Thanks, Bean Bag!

Full Sail is a beauty, and I love pretty much everything Carl wrote or sang. Can't say I prefer his LA songs over Dennis', love both, but I do think Carl's songs are generally underappreciated.

Absolutely agree with the above. It's the only genuinely great song on MIU. I also love the 'IIIIIII Love You Diane, IIIIIII Miss You Diane' section in the middle - the highlight of the entire album.

Well, looks like LA is the victor here, although not by a landslide. I'd say this may be the most contentious of the twofers but we shall see ...

I'll leave the poll open if anyone still wants to vote.

Both albums make me sad, but no release with "Hey Little Tomboy" is acceptable.

L.A. Light Album, Hands Down!

Love Surrounds Me, Baby Blue, Angel Come Home, Lady Lynda, Good Timin', all BB's classics!

Though L.A. did spawn one of the BB's nadir's, Sumahama...

MIU because She's Got Rhythm and Matchpoint