The Smiley Smile Message Board

Okay, before I start, let me make this clear - this is not my question, but it is more something my dad asked (not quite the same wording but ah well), and I couldn't quite answer. What is it that draws us in so much to this band when, on the face of it, as my dad says, songs like little Deuce Coupe are more secondary in the music world, coming down more as 'bubble Gum Pop' according to him. I also tried the later stuff he knows - 'What about Sail On Sailor?' - apparently that still counts as typical Radio 2 fodder - a station that, judging by his reports, plays Sail On Sailor and Lady Lynda on loop with the odd 'I Can Hear Music' thrown in. He does, however, indicate that 'Good Vibrations' is an incredible piece of musical everything (not quite his words), but from what he has heard he doesn't like Smile (No-one I know does!)

(On a side note, he does also like some stuff he has heard from Pacific Ocean Blue, and Forever, along with a few off of Summer In Paradise, which, according to him, sounds very AOR-ish)

But after all that, I was still stuck. Conversation moved on, more food was consumed. But the question stayed in my head, and it's really bugging me. So I figured the guys (and Gals) here at the Smliey Smile Message Board (my goodness that sounds cheesy) may help me out here - explain to my dad what it is that makes us delve so deeply into the Beach Boys' history and recorded sound, when they are at heart a typical radio pop band?

(Smile is not a valid argument I'm afraid)

As a bonus point, we were also deliberating - if 15 Big Ones is reverting back to the old formula, does it count as a sell out?

If he doesn't get it so be it. There's no sense in trying to convince him. I'm sure there's stuff your dad's into that you don't get either.

For me, it's the knowledge of Brian Wilson's personal history, his struggles and demons, and the Pet Sounds/SMiLE era. His creativeness and inventiveness in the studio. I enjoy (at least a little bit of) each era of the Beach Boys recorded history, but it was Pet Sounds and the reverence Brian Wilson that brought me to them. So if there was no Pet Sounds to obsess over, I don't think I would be geeking out on albums such as 20/20 or Sunflower, or on the other hand, All Summer Long or Summer Days. YMMV.

Because everything they wrote is "bubblegum pop" along the lines of "Little Deuce Coupe" or even "Sail On Sailor".

Even if he dislikes Smile, I'd think he could at least recognize how ambitious and different it is, and that it's very much not your typical "bubblegum pop".

For me it's the sheer emotion Brian Wilson put into his music, as well as his inventiveness in the studio. It goes into many different directions over the course of time, from fun times, to the fear of loss, Pet Sounds/Smile, etc. Beach Boy music is feel-good music, and for whatever reason people have this weird idea that feel-good music is "lesser music."

For the life of me I have never understood why people think this. What do people listen to music to be emotionally disturbed? I don't get it. ??? Of course music is meant to make you feel good.

I think I could write a 100 page essay about all the reasons why I love The Beach Boys. But I'll stick to the short answer. There are bands that I like because they have a couple of songs that I think are really, really good. Some bands have a dozen of those songs. A few bands even have two dozen. The Beach Boys have about ten dozen.

As much as nobody will agree with me, it's the positivity, lol. 


Here's a guy who was born June 20th, just in time for the first day of summer, right?  Supposedly (maybe, maybe not) lost hearing in 1 ear on his birthday (the day before summer, right?); suffered from mental illness, likely his entire life (althought it manifested more in his later years)... and then went on to write beautiful song after beautiful song about the summer we all love. 

As sad as his life was at times, the music was nearly always positive, and even when the music was sad it had hope in it. 

Positive, sincere music with intricate harmonies and instrumentation written by a troubled genius who was able time and again to overcome adversity. It's such a compelling and uplifting story. Not to mention the Beach Boys are interesting historically as well. They are a symbol of everything American--not just the music but also the personalities within the band and the way those personalities interacted with one another. I mean, someone could write a whole book on that aspect of the band. 

More people should be obsessed with The Beach Boys. The fact that a lot of people don't understand the appeal is evidence of the ignorance and moral decay of the society we live in.

I am at a loss to provide any concrete reasons for being obsessed with the BBs - I just am...

There's just so much to obsess over. On top of their seemingly endless albums, there's a ton of unreleased stuff that's remarkable. It's shocking that it was never put out. If you have the time and want to, like Sean Lennon said "It's rewarding."

The perfect combination of light and dark. Bright surface, dark undertow. Joy and sadness in equal measure. They serve the need for both light pop entertainment and serious art worthy of study. You can't find too many other modern musical artists that the same thing could be said of.

Curious-what is your father's age?

This

I'm going to guess his father is around 60/65.

That.

They are like the Greek tragedy of rock and roll. Everything you can think of has happened to this band. Yet they are still going.

Plain and simple: The are one of the finest bands in the history of music.  If you enjoy listen to music that is highly enjoyable, creative and timeless, The Beach Boys would be one of the bands that you would naturally gravitate to.

I don't know where, but they send me there 

Bubble gum pop does not last half a century.  My dad was in his 50's during the BB hey-days, younger than I am now, and he always seemed to get it, at least on what it meant to me.  Made life easier for me., I can tell you that, back on the ranch.  The music had substance, had relevance, was well crafted and simply struck a chord  - yes - with its audience.

49  ;D

nah, Ian's father definitely ain't that young, Ian's like 35 at least.

Pity you can't choose your parents.

My dad never understood my obsession with music, period. But especially Bob Dylan. "The guy can't sing, he's a terrible harmonica player, blah blah blah".

And allllllll this is that

I think my Beach Boys obsession comes down to two things:

1. The feeling I get when I listen to Beach Boys music. It's able to move me in many different ways. Brian especially was every good at conveying all kinds of emotions in his music. When you add the knowledge of the back story to those songs, it really enhances the experience. Of course it's great pop/rock music that you can bob along to while you're going about your day, but if you really listen to almost any Beach Boys song, there is so much going on, so much being expressed, that I can't imagine someone whose really listened to the music not getting enraptured and wanting to get deeper into the music.

2. My brain is wired in such a way that I am prone to obsession, and probably everyone else here is the same way. People whose brains don't work that way, won't understand it at all. This is probably the root of other people thinking we're all a bunch of weirdos, not that they think it's weird to like the Beach Boys specifically. They just can't understand that obsessive drive to know, have and listen to everything.

ohhhhhhh, for some reason I thought oldsurferdude was asking Ian (I. Spaceman) due to the fact that his post comes right after his, oh.

Something about the phrase "so very much into" is driving me crazy

All of my family are very hostile towards the Beach Boys because they are all fascist Beatles fans. I rebelled against them as a teenager and was met with much scorn and derision which has lasted 25 years.

This is why I am so anti-Beatles.

I thought about this some more and I have a new, definitive answer.

It's Bruce's shorts.

I must ask, why?

Also, as a point, my dad is not one to be seen as dis-respecting as he doesn't like music - he really does - like I said, he highly appreciates Good Vibrations, telling me that when he first heard it, it blew his mind (even if it was in Duophonic - which every time he mentions he gets annoyed ;D), but doesn't go much further than that.


Hey, I came from the Beatles - it is what made me pick up the Pet Sounds LP at the bootfair for £1 (actually, I was hesistant, but after buying £11 of stuff off of the guy he told me to take it - best free item ever  ;D)

I'm going to say The Beach Boys appeal strikes a chord with certain personalities who can relate to them in some way beyond liking their music on the surface. The music is universal, especially in the 60's catalog you can find at least one song that a majority of listeners of all ages would say "I like that". The band itself gets divided into sections and groups so often it has to revert back to the appeal of the music to bring it all together.

I recently saw a TV show that featured an obsessive collector of Dolly Parton memorabilia, and on the same show a couple who collected Cabbage Patch dolls and could name each of their dolls in the collection. In that regard, being obsessed over the Beach Boys is no different than those folks with similar obsessive collections. They gather all the information and all the items surrounding the object of that obsession and it's something that means a lot to them, and often something they like to share with other like-minded folks, which is what boards like this are all about.

It's the combination of everything that leads to this love/obsession of a particular artist or entertainer or doll or whatever - I think it would be hard to pinpoint exactly why Beach Boys or Brian Wilson fans do what they do any more than asking the Cabbage Patch couple why they do what they do.

It's the personal satisfaction of the whole thing that drives it, I think. If it makes you happy, and if it takes you to a place where you like to be, that is all the inspiration you need to continue.

I can't explain it personally, other than certain music by this band touches me in a very deep way, it has inspired me, and it has helped me through some tough times.

Best harmonies. Best arrangements. That's why I like 'em. Pretty simple.

They're a musicians band.

It's a shame that you can't like the Beatles because of that since they did make some very good music, my Mum worked with a guy who she didn't like that much that was a massive Bob Dylan fan and that put her off his music for good. She sometimes goes out the room if Dylan's being played! ;D

Anyway if I had to say the main reason why I like the Beach Boys so much it would have to do with the intricate melody's and harmony's, its almost unbelievable how good it sounds when it all comes together. Also their life is unbelievably interesting at times, its almost like a long running soap opera! :lol

Well pretty much all of my friends think I'm a weirdo for loving them so much,  they like their songs but think they are old fashioned and all about the surf/car songs,  None of them, not one,  knows anything after  good vibrations and then later Kokomo.  I had Carl and the Passions playing and my housemate asked who it was, when I answered the BBs he said "bullsh**!"   :)

Quite the story about the madness of beatlemaniacs.  8)

At some point it comes down to hearing the music, liking the music, and wanting to hear and learn more. I was trying to remember what it was exactly that made me cross that line where it goes from, say, really liking the first Boston album or a Michael Penn album and taking it to where I went with the Beach Boys - and I still have no answer. I don't think there is a one-size-fits-all answer to the question "Why The Beach Boys?", and if some look back in retrospect and say it was the backstories, the triumph over tragedy, the trials and tribulations of these guys, that may explain a few steps beyond just liking the music. But the question becomes were those issues front and center in my/your mind as you first listened to Pet Sounds or Good Vibrations or whatever other song was the gateway into full-blown fandom? Or was it a case of that music, that one album or one song touching you in such a way that you wanted to hear more, and whatever backstory was connected to the music followed but wasn't as vital as the music itself?

I'd be curious to hear what similar obsessed fans of other artists may say when asked "Why Elvis?" or "Why Hank Williams? or "Why Beethoven?". I think the main similarity would be the love of the music across the board. If the music didn't move you in some way, the history and the drama behind the artist wouldn't mean as much. For me it was and in some ways still is the music of The Beatles, The Beach Boys, and The Monkees that I always return to and those three artists still occupy the most space in all of my collections.

Elvis has been the classic case in sheer number of fans, Beatles a close second as far as obsessively devoted fans. The M.O. of Beach Boys fans has not yet reached the level of making a pilgrimage to Graceland or having a photo taken crossing the Abbey Road zebra crosswalk: I think the music is still the driving force with this group. It either hits you or it does not, and if the music has no appeal I don't know how reading a history of the band would override the emotional attachment of having a song or album affect you - but that's what makes us all different!

I think most diehard Beach Boys fans dislike a portion of their catalog, though.

But is it always the same portion..? I personally like Summer In Paradise (If anyone has a vinyl copy I would love to own one!), but can be quite selective of the others.


Just to back anything else up here, I'm 17, which probably makes most of you go :| and ignore me  ;D

No different at all than Elvis fans choosing some material over others, or Beatles fans having every second of music available from the 60's on a hard drive or on CD/vinyl but not owning a single copy of Gone Troppo or Rotogravure or McCartney II or some other solo album. And more than a few diehard Beatles fans are like that - you like what you like unless you're a collector who wants a complete collection of albums - not necessarily to play them but just to have them.

Every artist has less-than-stellar releases in their catalog: If you love and collect Elvis, you'll own all the soundtracks. If you love and collect the BB's, you'll try to grab all their albums. But that doesn't mean you'll like or even regularly listen to every disc they put out. I try to listen to Elvis' soundtrack albums with an open mind, listening for a Glen Campbell smokin' guitar solo or something good to latch onto, but some of the songs are just not my cup of tea and some are just hard to listen to, even if it's Elvis singing them. I do the same with the Beach Boys - but some of that late 70's/80's music just doesn't appeal to me. And I'm a fan.

I'm suggesting what puts it over the top from liking to really getting into these artists is rooted in the music first and foremost. The rest of the factors follow the connection to the music.

While I do have my favorite eras and albums, I can honestly say that I do not dislike any portion of the catalog, and I am a diehard fan.

My dad sang lead in a really good barbershop quartet and they practiced all the time in our knotty pine basement and bar. I loved the sound. This was before there was any Beach Boys. As the band developed and I aged into the rock era, it was a natural mix. Just like Jimi Hendrix said. "A barbershop quartet on acid." Sure there was Pet Sounds, but 20/20 sealed the deal for me.

Not really related, but in my group of friends I am 'that guy who loves The Beach boys' and I legitimately shocked some of them by going 'Man, I was listening to a beach boys album and it SUCKED' (MIU, I think) because I guess the popular conception of severe fandom is that THEY/IT CAN DO NO WRONG. But I don't think me hating MIU or Summer In Paradise makes me any less of a Beach Boys obsessive? Like, I don't think anyone's an idiot for legitimately liking Summer In Paradise, but it makes me want to kick Mike Love in the nuts. Am I somehow 'less' of a fan?

I'm on a massive 'over-thinking' stretch today, so feel free to ignore  ;D

I was once that guy, but now I have no friends.

And I too stop at Love You, and traverse no further. Your review of Summer In Paradise convinced me to never listen to that album. Though I fully respect and support those who love SIP, and always give generously to the mental health charities that support them.

I don't see it as something that needs an explanation. They made more memorable great songs than any other group in history, the harmonies and arrangements were amazing and no other can compare. Rock n' Roll at its finest; it never got better than the Beach Boys, the Ramones were the closest.

Damn it, you beat me to it!

My obsession with the Beach Boys is directly linked to the very tight shorts that many of the band (especially Bruce) wore frequently in the 1980's. They really give me a tent-like bulge in my trousers!

Not that unlike Brian...

(http://991.com/NewGallery/Brian-Wilson-Pulse-369482.jpg)

Because anybody can like the Beatles. It takes a little more work, a little more intestinal fortitude, a little more self esteem, a little more brains to be obsessed with the Beach Boys.

I thought I'd escaped that image for life!!!!

Great chin line there, and that was before photoshop! :lol


Hey, you don't have to justify yourself, you know? :)

Tell him it's because we all suffer from Asperger syndrome. ;D

Nice topic, Freddie. sidewinder is right: if your father didn't get them, he never will. Here's my fair share. 1st off, The BBs are certainly not your typical rock band. Their history is one-of-a-kind, with lots of funny/weird moments - say, borrowing money from Al's mother to afford to buy lacking instrument; Al joining the band after playing baseball in one team with Brian; the Boys taking their neighbor in the group while Al was absent to study dentistry; the whole "Brian Is Back" campaign, the Smile saga, memorable Hall of Fame speech etc. Then of course we have diversity of musical styles, everyone is singer-songwriter, Brian's advance on Wall of Sound (i.e. more eclectic arrangements, not dull & flat like Spector's), lead-sharing during a song, complex yet tasteful harmonies, unusual melody/chord structure & to top it off, simplistic lyrics. Sure, one would say that each of these facets occur in just about any other group. But altogether? Doubtful. Now, let's not forget that the BBs' music conjures mainly positive feelings, even their darkest stuff is splattered with hidden optimism. And that's exactly what led me to being more than just their casual fan. I can't seem to recall other artists having bigger score of upbeat songs, most went with heavy depressing material. So I agree with Ron on this. Finally, what I like about the BBs is the fact that, according to various stories, they all had been nice to their fans, no ego or scorn but equal attitude. It's another thing that helps for appreciating their music, at least to me.

Analyzing aside though, I feel as if the answer is much simple as to why certain people are obsessed with The BBs.

This.

Hi all,

I have noticed that in town whenever certain people talk about a group even once they are told they are obsesed.  Yet I have noticed the person who called that other one obsessed for talking about the BB doing that same thing themselves.  To call one obsessed is making a juddgement call.  I like saying deep interest or facsination.  I know that some people in town have also said that they don't like using the word obsessed because it is a very strong word and have been proven wrong after they used it.  If we didn't have any likes or interests life would be boring.   

Most did like The Beatles.  Sheep!  :lol ---  I'm only kidding! (I do have a real fondness for a lot of their work, I must admit.) And appreciate their connections as artists, despite the conflicts that appear in hindsight to have been industry-created.  All good guys.

And, a very funny teacher I used to work with used to say that "self-praise is no recommendation." It doesn't make me any smarter, but, maybe just more committed to learning about their art and what inspired the work, whether politics, travel, sport or some philosophy.

But, The Beach Boys are no "one trick pony," which is "part of their charm."  Once you become drawn into the music, there is always something new to discover, whether there was commercial success or not, or taking a second look at some obscure work, and realize how ahead-of-its-time it was, even if it wasn't well-received, which is often a sign of its' future recognition and greatness.

And it is so cool to root for a perceived underdog.  You gotta love their tenacity, even when the deck is stacked against them, they come out on top in the finale.  ;)

MaryUSA made a great point about the pejorative term - "obsessive." I prefer "passionate" as a more positive attribute. 

That's self-serving garbage.

comment removed

Get a sense of humour.

I refuse.

:brow

(http://27.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lz3kw9s2XF1rnejzzo1_500.gif)

There are a lot of good replies here with many reasons why I also love the Beach Boys so much. I'm 29 in a couple of weeks and although I have friends who like the Beach Boys, none seem overly interested in digging a little bit deeper into their catalogue or into the many layers in each song.

As well as the emotion, voices, harmonies, happy/sad songs (eg Til I Die), for me it's the ridiculous amount of layers in every single piece. The simplest of melodies becomes an outstandingly beautiful song by adding just the right amount of each instrument, voice etc. You have to listen to it 100 times to hear something that you've never heard before or to follow a certain instrument or voice in the harmony throughout the song. I always seem to find something lurking in the background of a song even after years of listening, or on a different audio source! How many bands offer a gift that keeps on giving?!

hahahahaha

I think most true BBs fans understand, even without trying to over-articulate it, that the creative forces in this band were somehow unique, and remained so even as they changed (and often became somewhat contradictory). There was dissonance in the "harmony" almost from the get-go, and even if there are some of us (heck, most of us) who take sides in the internecine aspects of that dissonance, we develop a hypersensitivity to that strange, shape-shifting dynamic the way that the dear little princess was bothered by the pea all the way at the bottom of those mattresses.

The ebb and flow, the rise and fall and rise (and fall) of--a band, an idea, a lifestyle, a simultaneously full-blown and half-assed aesthetic: to those who "get" that, who sense all those dimensions, it is an endless epic tale about life and death, damnation and resurrection, and all of the other mangled dualisms that we embrace and reject. Most bands just have a cycle of success and break up--only a very few actually survive, linger--fester, even. And none of them have done so with the surreal panache of the BBs.

And for those tempted into the cloistered world of the aesthetic, there is no one more compelling (and confounding) than Brian Wilson. There is virtually no one in popular music who conjures up the image and reality of someone with such potentially unlimited composing, arranging, and visionary musical talents. For a brief time, Brian was that god-like figure, and we know that those around him--those who worked and lived with him--had the exact same sense of that than we do.

Of course, Brian's talent/genius had a dark source, which is what's made his life so, er, "interesting." Great success and even greater excess. But somehow (who knows how) he managed to survive against all odds. That part of the story is icing on the cake for those who track the ebb and flow of his musical career.

People who love/obsess over the BBs quite probably have a weakness for the epic mode, even when it demonstrates a strong tendency to devolve into soap opera. A family saga (the Greek tragedy allusion is more than just a little appropriate...), where the heroes and villains are seemingly interchangeable.

For me, it's all about the music. The band's history and personal stories are interesting, and Brian's story is particularly moving. But, there are other band stories just as tragic and even inspirational, but their music doesn't resonate with me.  My love of the Beach Boys starts and ends with the music.

Why does anyone obsess over anything? Because, in some way, it catches your imagination. People who aren't "into" the same things won't get it. A friend of mine spends his summers taking a Dodge Charger to car shows. Someone once asked him why he spent his time doing this. He replied, because it's fun to spend time with people who love what you love. The other guy thought he was obsessive. Of course, he spends his weekends watching sports on TV. 

We all have our obsessions. Just pick the one you like, and don't worry about the others.

My feelings entirely.

I don't understand my own obsession.

In understand that I like Pet Sounds (I can't explain why) but I don't understand why I have to have 20+ copies.

I understand that I enjoy a good concert but can't understand why I had to go see Brian Wilson more than 10 times in 2004.

I think there's something about surrounding yourself with familiar things, and the comfort that brings.

A psychologist would doubtless put it down to something to like some of us having a mild touch of autism or even Asperger's or some other condition; if so, so be it.  I've had similar obsessions throughout my life, and there are other artists I also collect (John Martyn, Neil Young…) but nothing ever on a scale like it's been with The Beach Boys. It can make things… ummm… tricky!

When one listens to their work, it isn't just them, but the ways in which Brian (Mike, etal) connected-the-dots with "their" influences, whether it was Gershwin, Four Freshmen, Doo Wop, Elvis, Kingston Trio, etc. They added to an amalgam with their own vocal strategies and experimental instrumentation.

Is it "obsession" or an extreme "focus" because it inspires some awakening of a dormant interest?  I feel badly for those who never find anything that brings them to life, as music or art does.  You just meet the greatest people at their shows, who are alive, have a sense of humor ( you'd need one to be a 60's -70's fan!  :lol ) and, you "could do worse," as far as negative "obsessions" are concerned. 

And, you've got 20 Pet Sounds album versions! Good for you! If you've heard something and it feels "like home," I think you're a wealthy person.  It took Flaubert 5 years to write Madame Bovary, because he was searching "obsessively" for "le mot juste" - the exactly precise word to fit his enduring masterpiece, tweaking it all the time.  Worth it? I guess so.  Does it mean we are perfectionists, too? I don't know.  On each "listen" you hear something different. 

But, one of the skills that teachers look for in small children is "task completion" or watching whether they flit from one activity to another? A psychologist might judge a child, without focus differently, and overlook that the kid is "destined for genius" while staring out the window, day-dreaming, apparently inattentively, but "taking it all in" on some level, and taking Robert Frost's "road less traveled."

And, I'm not sure we know enough about the brain and the mind to allow value judgments or armchair web analysis to second-guess what our own personal intuition dictates.

You saw Brian ten times! Bravo, in my book! That just rocks!   :thewilsons

This.

I obsess over everything. It's crazy. My wallet hates it.

BUT I LOVE IT.

Someone mentioned the gift that keeps on giving over the years.  I'd say its like that with an artist who is prolifiic and gifted.  There is always some aspect of one of the many pieces to go back to without becoming satiated with the form for very long.