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Smiley Smile Stuff => General On Topic Discussions => Topic started by: The Heartical Don on April 03, 2012, 01:00:24 AM



Title: Can't Do Without BWPS
Post by: The Heartical Don on April 03, 2012, 01:00:24 AM
...for the following reasons:

1. it is a very graceful record by one of pop's greatest artists and it is executed beautifully in all respects - and the singing by BW is tops too, the patina of aging only adds to the experience;

2. BWPS is important because seven years after its release it turned out to have been the template for re-constructing the orginal set of compositions that was left unfinished some 44 years earlier;

3. I cannot get the added lyrics out of my head, they're entirely fitting and in the vein of SMiLE itself, whether they are or are not similar to what was intended in 1967;

4. the added instrumental bridges on BWPS are indispensable to this listener; and they are firmly lodged in his brains also;

5. BWPS, and its 2004 live performance at the Royal Festival Hall, together form a totality that may well be the finest musical experience yours truly will ever have had in his entire life.

...and you?


Title: Re: Can't Do Without BWPS
Post by: Aegir on April 03, 2012, 01:05:11 AM
I agree with #4 completely.


Title: Re: Can't Do Without BWPS
Post by: John Manning on April 03, 2012, 01:07:07 AM
All excellent and irrefutable. I still prefer the vocal performances of the 66/67 sessions but what you've said is spot on, Don.  BW – responsible for two of the greatest musical moments in history.  And then some…


Title: Re: Can't Do Without BWPS
Post by: cablegeddon on April 03, 2012, 01:52:18 AM
Great post. I agree. For me it's about four essential songs.
1. H&V: There's just more power and rock & roll to the bWPS version
2. Wonderful: I can't live without that wonderful horn or trumpet that plays over the chorus
3. Surfs up: Same thing, can't live without the powerful execution of "BROOOOTHER JOOOOHHN"
4. Vegetables: I just can't listen to TSS-version, it's not tight(rythm and other aspects) and goes on and on.


Title: Re: Can't Do Without BWPS
Post by: UK_Surf on April 03, 2012, 01:54:08 AM
The live performance was utterly sublime, and conceived/executed as such, I agree with all of this.

There's always a 'but' on this board, so respectfully, I'd offer this: the cd did not ultimately (and I think probably could not) capture the magic of the evening, because it was conceived as a live piece, and it was recorded to replicate that live production as closely as possible. So the recording was pretty much geared to putting down all the live parts on record as per the live arrangement, which causes some head-scratching. As a listening experience, the distractions aren't just the fake harpsichord here, the odd bit of 'lost in performance translation' (cf bull horn on 'holidays') there...from a production standpoint, and perhaps conceptually, it needed some further tweaking.

But that's a quibble. A major, and important undertaking, an unforgettable experience, and an indispensable document of a crucial moment in musical history.


Title: Re: Can't Do Without BWPS
Post by: John Manning on April 03, 2012, 01:57:30 AM
One of the outstanding bits of BWPS for me is the lyrics to Holidays. Much missed on T'SS version.


Title: Re: Can't Do Without BWPS
Post by: The Heartical Don on April 03, 2012, 01:59:45 AM
One of the outstanding bits of BWPS for me is the lyrics to Holidays. Much missed on T'SS version.

Yes! Isn't that 'Lazy Mister Moon' that I'm hearing right now?  :)


Title: Re: Can't Do Without BWPS
Post by: stack-o-tracks on April 03, 2012, 02:18:39 AM
Watch the Beautiful Dreamer documentary if you need a refresher on the awesomeness that is BWPS.

I still remember the first time I heard that. Heroes & Villains just about blew my mind out the top of my head.And that's song number 2!


Title: Re: Can't Do Without BWPS
Post by: Paulos on April 03, 2012, 02:22:14 AM
BWPS is still great and always will be, I listened to it a few weeks ago for the first time since the Smile Sessions came out and it stands up on its on merits. Regardless of any flaws it is great to hear finished versions of CIFOTM, Look, Roll Plymouth Rock etc.

Great post. I agree. For me it's about four essential songs.
1. H&V: There's just more power and rock & roll to the bWPS version
2. Wonderful: I can't live without that wonderful horn or trumpet that plays over the chorus
3. Surfs up: Same thing, can't live without the powerful execution of "BROOOOTHER JOOOOHHN"
4. Vegetables: I just can't listen to TSS-version, it's not tight(rythm and other aspects) and goes on and on.

I'm unsure what you mean by this, the horn/trumpet on the chorus is present on the TSS and BWPS versions.


Title: Re: Can't Do Without BWPS
Post by: Lowbacca on April 03, 2012, 02:40:34 AM
I've watched the DVD a gazillion times, most times with a bottle of wine after a rough day, and when it's over I... SMiLE. Yeah, that's Brian Wilson. Regarding the studio record: it's a fine fine thing (a spectacular thing, speaking from a perspective of music history), I totally love it and the vinyl is simply one of the most amazing things I've ever heard.

Brian Wilsn presents SMiLE ... lives!!

(http://www.earcandymag.com/smileatlanta1.jpg)


(Thank you Darian for making all this possible!)


Title: Re: Can't Do Without BWPS
Post by: Newguy562 on April 03, 2012, 02:47:35 AM
1. Child Is The Father Of The Man Vocals
2. Song For The Children Vocals
3. On A Holiday Vocals
4. In Blue Hawaii Vocals


Title: Re: Can't Do Without BWPS
Post by: The Heartical Don on April 03, 2012, 02:59:16 AM
1. Child Is The Father Of The Man Vocals
2. Song For The Children Vocals
3. On A Holiday Vocals
4. In Blue Hawaii Vocals

Just reading this lifts my spirits...  :)


Title: Re: Can't Do Without BWPS
Post by: Newguy562 on April 03, 2012, 03:16:36 AM
1. Child Is The Father Of The Man Vocals
2. Song For The Children Vocals
3. On A Holiday Vocals
4. In Blue Hawaii Vocals

Just reading this lifts my spirits...  :)
:) Each of these vocals fit those songs perfectly, I'm satisfied with every one of them. As soon as I went to purchase TSS I was going to delete BWPS off my computer but I  just couldn't do so for those reasons.


Title: Re: Can't Do Without BWPS
Post by: The Heartical Don on April 03, 2012, 03:21:35 AM
1. Child Is The Father Of The Man Vocals
2. Song For The Children Vocals
3. On A Holiday Vocals
4. In Blue Hawaii Vocals

Just reading this lifts my spirits...  :)
:) Each of these vocals fit those songs perfectly, I'm satisfied with every one of them. As soon as I went to purchase TSS I was going to delete BWPS off my computer but I  just couldn't do so for those reasons.

The phrase 'Easy My Child...' and what follows always brings me close to tears...


Title: Re: Can't Do Without BWPS
Post by: Lowbacca on April 03, 2012, 03:30:31 AM
DVD Trailer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6G_SK-N6Iw



Title: Re: Can't Do Without BWPS
Post by: UK_Surf on April 03, 2012, 03:39:02 AM
Blue Hawaii vocals are a stand-out, for sure!


Title: Re: Can't Do Without BWPS
Post by: Lowbacca on April 03, 2012, 03:47:52 AM
Blue Hawaii vocals are a stand-out, for sure!
Summer of 2007 it was the only track on my mp3player for weeks.. walking to work through the woods by the lake and playing In Blue Hawaii over and over.. ah, good times.


Title: Re: Can't Do Without BWPS
Post by: UK_Surf on April 03, 2012, 03:53:27 AM
Absolutely. They really seemed to look to Smiley and Lei'd in Hawai to capture the vibe on those lyrics. They worked really, really well.


Title: Re: Can't Do Without BWPS
Post by: cablegeddon on April 03, 2012, 04:07:50 AM
BWPS is still great and always will be, I listened to it a few weeks ago for the first time since the Smile Sessions came out and it stands up on its on merits. Regardless of any flaws it is great to hear finished versions of CIFOTM, Look, Roll Plymouth Rock etc.

Great post. I agree. For me it's about four essential songs.
1. H&V: There's just more power and rock & roll to the bWPS version
2. Wonderful: I can't live without that wonderful horn or trumpet that plays over the chorus
3. Surfs up: Same thing, can't live without the powerful execution of "BROOOOTHER JOOOOHHN"
4. Vegetables: I just can't listen to TSS-version, it's not tight(rythm and other aspects) and goes on and on.

I'm unsure what you mean by this, the horn/trumpet on the chorus is present on the TSS and BWPS versions.

Right but it's played differently on TSS. It's more in a restrained  manner, the whole chorus is more subdued on TSS.


Title: Re: Can't Do Without BWPS
Post by: Newguy562 on April 03, 2012, 05:48:00 AM
1. Child Is The Father Of The Man Vocals
2. Song For The Children Vocals
3. On A Holiday Vocals
4. In Blue Hawaii Vocals

Just reading this lifts my spirits...  :)
:) Each of these vocals fit those songs perfectly, I'm satisfied with every one of them. As soon as I went to purchase TSS I was going to delete BWPS off my computer but I  just couldn't do so for those reasons.

The phrase 'Easy My Child...' and what follows always brings me close to tears...
that's how beautiful it is :) whenever I hear Brian sing that it gives me goosebumps.


Title: Re: Can't Do Without BWPS
Post by: John Manning on April 03, 2012, 05:52:13 AM
DVD Trailer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6G_SK-N6Iw



Ha! C'est moi at 0.38 – "Glasgow"!


Title: Re: Can't Do Without BWPS
Post by: rab2591 on April 03, 2012, 05:55:23 AM
BWPS is still great and always will be, I listened to it a few weeks ago for the first time since the Smile Sessions came out and it stands up on its on merits. Regardless of any flaws it is great to hear finished versions of CIFOTM, Look, Roll Plymouth Rock etc.

Great post. I agree. For me it's about four essential songs.
1. H&V: There's just more power and rock & roll to the bWPS version
2. Wonderful: I can't live without that wonderful horn or trumpet that plays over the chorus
3. Surfs up: Same thing, can't live without the powerful execution of "BROOOOTHER JOOOOHHN"
4. Vegetables: I just can't listen to TSS-version, it's not tight(rythm and other aspects) and goes on and on.

I'm unsure what you mean by this, the horn/trumpet on the chorus is present on the TSS and BWPS versions.

Right but it's played differently on TSS. It's more in a restrained  manner, the whole chorus is more subdued on TSS.

I agree - the overall sound of Wonderful on BWPS is amazing.
______

To add to Don's list: Brian singing 'Long, long ago, long ago," in Holidays is one of the greatest things I've ever heard.

And the only thing that irritates me about BWPS is the instrumental track for 'Roll Plymouth Rock' - I wish they would've tried a bit harder to get that edgier sound of the '66 recording.


Title: Re: Can't Do Without BWPS
Post by: Lowbacca on April 03, 2012, 06:08:55 AM
And the only thing that irritates me about BWPS is the instrumental track for 'Roll Plymouth Rock' - I wish they would've tried a bit harder to get that edgier sound of the '66 recording.
Sounds to me like they didn't try in the first place. This is a different SMiLE, and I like the somewhat lighter, sweeter tone on a few tracks. It's a nice variation to the original recordings we have from bootlegs and the SMiLE Sessions.


Title: Re: Can't Do Without BWPS
Post by: The Heartical Don on April 03, 2012, 06:18:14 AM
DVD Trailer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6G_SK-N6Iw



Ha! C'est moi at 0.38 – "Glasgow"!

Why no Oscar for co-starring in the best Music Documentary then? I mean, the Academy Rules don't specify a minimum length as to such a performance, do they?


Title: Re: Can't Do Without BWPS
Post by: Lowbacca on April 03, 2012, 06:31:51 AM
DVD Trailer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6G_SK-N6Iw



Ha! C'est moi at 0.38 – "Glasgow"!
Awesome.  8)


Title: Re: Can't Do Without BWPS
Post by: Freddie French-Pounce on April 03, 2012, 09:48:19 AM
...Regarding the studio record: it's a fine fine thing (a spectacular thing, speaking from a perspective of music history), I totally love it and the vinyl is simply one of the most amazing things I've ever heard.

I have to say the same, i originally bought the record last year while in Amsterdam (yes, some of us go there for music purposes only!) and was immedeatly blown away by it's far superior sound to the CD. However, I believe I remember reading that is was remixed/EQ'd for the Vinyl. Was this true, as it really paid off!


Title: Re: Can't Do Without BWPS
Post by: rab2591 on April 03, 2012, 09:58:45 AM
...Regarding the studio record: it's a fine fine thing (a spectacular thing, speaking from a perspective of music history), I totally love it and the vinyl is simply one of the most amazing things I've ever heard.

I have to say the same, i originally bought the record last year while in Amsterdam (yes, some of us go there for music purposes only!) and was immedeatly blown away by it's far superior sound to the CD. However, I believe I remember reading that is was remixed/EQ'd for the Vinyl. Was this true, as it really paid off!

I am kicking myself for not buying it on Amazon last year when it was only $25. Now Amazon doesn't even sell it, and the prices elsewhere are quite steep.


Title: Re: Can't Do Without BWPS
Post by: Freddie French-Pounce on April 03, 2012, 10:11:34 AM
...Regarding the studio record: it's a fine fine thing (a spectacular thing, speaking from a perspective of music history), I totally love it and the vinyl is simply one of the most amazing things I've ever heard.

I have to say the same, i originally bought the record last year while in Amsterdam (yes, some of us go there for music purposes only!) and was immedeatly blown away by it's far superior sound to the CD. However, I believe I remember reading that is was remixed/EQ'd for the Vinyl. Was this true, as it really paid off!

I am kicking myself for not buying it on Amazon last year when it was only $25. Now Amazon doesn't even sell it, and the prices elsewhere are quite steep.

It was 19 Euros, and are you in England or america? you can get them on eBay for about £20 sometimes, but that's on eBay UK. Also, I wasn't too sure if i wanted it, I only really impulse bought it, but this was after I found the GV/H&V RSD 78 AFTER RSD for 15 euros in another shop. that was a great trip :D


Title: Re: Can't Do Without BWPS
Post by: rab2591 on April 03, 2012, 10:17:32 AM
...Regarding the studio record: it's a fine fine thing (a spectacular thing, speaking from a perspective of music history), I totally love it and the vinyl is simply one of the most amazing things I've ever heard.

I have to say the same, i originally bought the record last year while in Amsterdam (yes, some of us go there for music purposes only!) and was immedeatly blown away by it's far superior sound to the CD. However, I believe I remember reading that is was remixed/EQ'd for the Vinyl. Was this true, as it really paid off!

I am kicking myself for not buying it on Amazon last year when it was only $25. Now Amazon doesn't even sell it, and the prices elsewhere are quite steep.

It was 19 Euros, and are you in England or america? you can get them on eBay for about £20 sometimes, but that's on eBay UK. Also, I wasn't too sure if i wanted it, I only really impulse bought it, but this was after I found the GV/H&V RSD 78 AFTER RSD for 15 euros in another shop. that was a great trip :D

RSD 78 for that cheap??? Great trip indeed!

I'm in America, and the prices on ebay here are pretty high. Later in the summer I'll probably be less wary of spending such amounts on the album.


Title: Re: Can't Do Without BWPS
Post by: JCarson on April 03, 2012, 11:05:25 AM
I love BWPS for many of the reasons already given above, but I hold a faint candle for the 10th (or more likely 20th... please God not 40th) anniversary remaster with decent bass and a collection of demos and alternate takes... like Dom Priore said in his "Lost Masterpiece" book, the bass just aint in the right place!


Title: Re: Can't Do Without BWPS
Post by: Paul J B on April 03, 2012, 11:46:37 AM
Funny this popped up. I just listened to BWPS for the first time since TSS arrived last fall and it kind of pales in comparison to me now.  Brian's singing is tops on BWPS? I would not call his singing tops on BWRG and it's far better than his singing on Smile. Some of the Lyrics add and some seem really out of place. The "hot as hell ...placid pool" stuff for example. I really appreciate what was done to get Smile released in 2004, but now more than ever I am in the camp with those that were somewhat dismissive about it at the time, claiming it was not what Brian intended back in 1966. Holy Bee's thread about it being a "normal" little over 30 minute album that was almost done makes a lot more sense to me.


Title: Re: Can't Do Without BWPS
Post by: CoolWater on April 03, 2012, 12:29:33 PM
I know I'll take a lot of flack for this but, BWPS is (for me) THE essential Smile listening experience.

Part of me can't believe I just wrote that, but I believe it to be true.

As someone who was introduced to Smile via the GV box sex, and who sought out boot after boot of the unreleased material, and who forked out the $150 USD for the TSS box without complaint, I feel confident in saying the original material is sublimely dark, mysterious, psychedelic, transformative, etc, etc. I'm not trying tp denegrate or dismiss those sessions or Brian's genius in any way. I've at times worshiped  them (literally prayed to Our Prayer), Brian and the Boys (I've seen as many of his/their shows as distance and money would allow).

That said, the second movement of BWPS (on vinyl) is THE highlight of Brian Wilson's career and perhaps his most important contribution to pop music history (Pet Sounds included). The suite of Wonderful/Song For Children/CIFOTM/Surf's Up is breathtaking in it's beauty. It is a 10+ minute symphony and perfect in every way. I cry every time I listen to it, and I'm not a guy who cries easily or often. 

The entirety of the BWPS stands on it's own, without any tip of the hat to the 67 sessions. It is a transformative musical experience. It didn't need a released TSS to give it context. It blew people away who were completely unfamilar with the original tapes, my family and friends included. It cemented Brian's place as the most important American composer of the Rock and Roll era in the minds of musicians and fanboys alike.

As such, BWPS is the vital and most irreplaceable part of the Smile story. It is Brian's final celebratory triumph over history, drugs, disease, abuse and time. It is an artists completed vision, which despite hours of interesting sessions, alternate takes and undiscovered fragments TSS can never be. The result was that it was many experts pick for Album of the Year, was the most highly rated album of the year according to Metacritic's compliation of reviews and also resulted in the only Grammy any original member of the BB's has received (with all due respect to Bruce).

Anyone who would discard BWPS because of the release of TSS is, pardon my bluntness, an idiot.

Your mileage mary vary, but to dismiss BWPS is to underestimate, or miss completely, the redemptive and healing power of the music, the soul and the story of Brian Wilson.



Title: Re: Can't Do Without BWPS
Post by: rab2591 on April 03, 2012, 12:48:15 PM
I know I'll take a lot of flack for this but, BWPS is (for me) THE essential Smile listening experience.

Part of me can't believe I just wrote that, but I believe it to be true.

As someone who was introduced to Smile via the GV box sex, and who sought out boot after boot of the unreleased material, and who forked out the $150 USD for the TSS box without complaint, I feel confident in saying the original material is sublimely dark, mysterious, psychedelic, transformative, etc, etc. I'm not trying tp denegrate or dismiss those sessions or Brian's genius in any way. I've at times worshiped  them (literally prayed to Our Prayer), Brian and the Boys (I've seen as many of his/their shows as distance and money would allow).

That said, the second movement of BWPS (on vinyl) is THE highlight of Brian Wilson's career and perhaps his most important contribution to pop music history (Pet Sounds included). The suite of Wonderful/Song For Children/CIFOTM/Surf's Up is breathtaking in it's beauty. It is a 10+ minute symphony and perfect in every way. I cry every time I listen to it, and I'm not a guy who cries easily or often. 

The entirety of the BWPS stands on it's own, without any tip of the hat to the 67 sessions. It is a transformative musical experience. It didn't need a released TSS to give it context. It blew people away who were completely unfamilar with the original tapes, my family and friends included. It cemented Brian's place as the most important American composer of the Rock and Roll era in the minds of musicians and fanboys alike.

As such, BWPS is the vital and most irreplaceable part of the Smile story. It is Brian's final celebratory triumph over history, drugs, disease, abuse and time. It is an artists completed vision, which despite hours of interesting sessions, alternate takes and undiscovered fragments TSS can never be. The result was that it was many experts pick for Album of the Year, was the most highly rated album of the year according to Metacritic's compliation of reviews and also resulted in the only Grammy any original member of the BB's has received (with all due respect to Bruce).

Anyone who would discard BWPS because of the release of TSS is, pardon my bluntness, an idiot.

Your mileage mary vary, but to dismiss BWPS is to underestimate, or miss completely, the redemptive and healing power of the music, the soul and the story of Brian Wilson.



DAMMIT!!! I missed out on that one! ;)
______

Kidding aside, it's a shame that BWPS isn't more popular, but likewise for Pet Sounds.

I love the clean sound of BWPS, and though I prefer vintage H&V, GV, Fire, and Cabinessence, I prefer BWPS's Wonderful, CIFOTM, Surf's Up, Holidays, DaDa, Wanna Be Around/etc.

That being said, I think both releases are equally important/beautiful.


Title: Re: Can't Do Without BWPS
Post by: Paulos on April 03, 2012, 12:54:04 PM
...Regarding the studio record: it's a fine fine thing (a spectacular thing, speaking from a perspective of music history), I totally love it and the vinyl is simply one of the most amazing things I've ever heard.

I have to say the same, i originally bought the record last year while in Amsterdam (yes, some of us go there for music purposes only!) and was immedeatly blown away by it's far superior sound to the CD. However, I believe I remember reading that is was remixed/EQ'd for the Vinyl. Was this true, as it really paid off!

I am kicking myself for not buying it on Amazon last year when it was only $25. Now Amazon doesn't even sell it, and the prices elsewhere are quite steep.

It was 19 Euros, and are you in England or america? you can get them on eBay for about £20 sometimes, but that's on eBay UK. Also, I wasn't too sure if i wanted it, I only really impulse bought it, but this was after I found the GV/H&V RSD 78 AFTER RSD for 15 euros in another shop. that was a great trip :D

RSD 78 for that cheap??? Great trip indeed!

I'm in America, and the prices on ebay here are pretty high. Later in the summer I'll probably be less wary of spending such amounts on the album.

I've been looking for BWPS on vinyl for a few weeks now, there was one on ebay the other day that I bid on but because I wasn't paying attention at the last few minutes of the auction I was outbidded by 10p! It went for £10.10, gutted as all the others I've seen are quite expensive.


Title: Re: Can't Do Without BWPS
Post by: rab2591 on April 03, 2012, 01:00:02 PM
Gah, what a shame!

Quite odd that the vinyl BWPS was upped in price/taken off of Amazon right when TSS came out.
______

To add to the SMiLE talk, I had a dream the other night that I was showing my friends the song 'Cabinessence' and upon playing it (and it was actual song) I saw a tall white wall before me that encapsulated the music. Upon remembering my dream later on the next day I equated this wall to represent the incredible wall of sound that 'Cabinessence' is. Kinda neat ;D


Title: Re: Can't Do Without BWPS
Post by: Freddie French-Pounce on April 03, 2012, 02:12:12 PM
Yeah, after seeing this topic, I gave my BWPS LP a spin, and boy, does it sound good! It's just that feeling of completeness that you don't quite get with TSS, and the transitions are exquisite. So glad I bought it when I did!


Title: Re: Can't Do Without BWPS
Post by: AvanTodd on April 03, 2012, 02:25:45 PM
There are a couple BWPS records on discogs for $25 for you guys that are looking for it.  You want US pressings btw.


Title: Re: Can't Do Without BWPS
Post by: Peter Reum on April 03, 2012, 04:29:30 PM
I still find Smile 2004 as the listening highlight of my life in music. For me the premiere in London was the peak. That said, I love it for many of the reasons cited here...the second movement, Holiday, In Blue Hawaii.


Title: Re: Can't Do Without BWPS
Post by: SBonilla on April 03, 2012, 05:00:36 PM
There are a couple BWPS records on discogs for $25 for you guys that are looking for it.  You want US pressings btw.
I sold my sealed copy recently.


Title: Re: Can't Do Without BWPS
Post by: Eireannach on April 03, 2012, 07:52:39 PM
I know I'll take a lot of flack for this but, BWPS is (for me) THE essential Smile listening experience.

Part of me can't believe I just wrote that, but I believe it to be true.

As someone who was introduced to Smile via the GV box sex, and who sought out boot after boot of the unreleased material, and who forked out the $150 USD for the TSS box without complaint, I feel confident in saying the original material is sublimely dark, mysterious, psychedelic, transformative, etc, etc. I'm not trying tp denegrate or dismiss those sessions or Brian's genius in any way. I've at times worshiped  them (literally prayed to Our Prayer), Brian and the Boys (I've seen as many of his/their shows as distance and money would allow).

That said, the second movement of BWPS (on vinyl) is THE highlight of Brian Wilson's career and perhaps his most important contribution to pop music history (Pet Sounds included). The suite of Wonderful/Song For Children/CIFOTM/Surf's Up is breathtaking in it's beauty. It is a 10+ minute symphony and perfect in every way. I cry every time I listen to it, and I'm not a guy who cries easily or often. 

The entirety of the BWPS stands on it's own, without any tip of the hat to the 67 sessions. It is a transformative musical experience. It didn't need a released TSS to give it context. It blew people away who were completely unfamilar with the original tapes, my family and friends included. It cemented Brian's place as the most important American composer of the Rock and Roll era in the minds of musicians and fanboys alike.

As such, BWPS is the vital and most irreplaceable part of the Smile story. It is Brian's final celebratory triumph over history, drugs, disease, abuse and time. It is an artists completed vision, which despite hours of interesting sessions, alternate takes and undiscovered fragments TSS can never be. The result was that it was many experts pick for Album of the Year, was the most highly rated album of the year according to Metacritic's compliation of reviews and also resulted in the only Grammy any original member of the BB's has received (with all due respect to Bruce).

Anyone who would discard BWPS because of the release of TSS is, pardon my bluntness, an idiot.

Your mileage mary vary, but to dismiss BWPS is to underestimate, or miss completely, the redemptive and healing power of the music, the soul and the story of Brian Wilson.



Surprisingly, I find myself agreeing with most of this post, especially the part about the Wonderful Suite.  In fact, I'm not sure there is a better part on the album than the clarinet melody on Song for Children.  I also like the Roll Plymouth Rock lyrics and even Blue Hawaii.  I prefer some classic songs like Good Vibrations (from Purple Chick), Surf's Up, and Cabinessence, but BWPS is a phenomenal album.


Title: Re: Can't Do Without BWPS
Post by: The Heartical Don on April 04, 2012, 12:22:29 AM
I know I'll take a lot of flack for this but, BWPS is (for me) THE essential Smile listening experience.

Part of me can't believe I just wrote that, but I believe it to be true.

As someone who was introduced to Smile via the GV box sex, and who sought out boot after boot of the unreleased material, and who forked out the $150 USD for the TSS box without complaint, I feel confident in saying the original material is sublimely dark, mysterious, psychedelic, transformative, etc, etc. I'm not trying tp denegrate or dismiss those sessions or Brian's genius in any way. I've at times worshiped  them (literally prayed to Our Prayer), Brian and the Boys (I've seen as many of his/their shows as distance and money would allow).

That said, the second movement of BWPS (on vinyl) is THE highlight of Brian Wilson's career and perhaps his most important contribution to pop music history (Pet Sounds included). The suite of Wonderful/Song For Children/CIFOTM/Surf's Up is breathtaking in it's beauty. It is a 10+ minute symphony and perfect in every way. I cry every time I listen to it, and I'm not a guy who cries easily or often.  

The entirety of the BWPS stands on it's own, without any tip of the hat to the 67 sessions. It is a transformative musical experience. It didn't need a released TSS to give it context. It blew people away who were completely unfamilar with the original tapes, my family and friends included. It cemented Brian's place as the most important American composer of the Rock and Roll era in the minds of musicians and fanboys alike.

As such, BWPS is the vital and most irreplaceable part of the Smile story. It is Brian's final celebratory triumph over history, drugs, disease, abuse and time. It is an artists completed vision, which despite hours of interesting sessions, alternate takes and undiscovered fragments TSS can never be. The result was that it was many experts pick for Album of the Year, was the most highly rated album of the year according to Metacritic's compliation of reviews and also resulted in the only Grammy any original member of the BB's has received (with all due respect to Bruce).

Anyone who would discard BWPS because of the release of TSS is, pardon my bluntness, an idiot.

Your mileage mary vary, but to dismiss BWPS is to underestimate, or miss completely, the redemptive and healing power of the music, the soul and the story of Brian Wilson.



Surprisingly, I find myself agreeing with most of this post, especially the part about the Wonderful Suite.  In fact, I'm not sure there is a better part on the album than the clarinet melody on Song for Children.  I also like the Roll Plymouth Rock lyrics and even Blue Hawaii.  I prefer some classic songs like Good Vibrations (from Purple Chick), Surf's Up, and Cabinessence, but BWPS is a phenomenal album.

I concur with the sentiments expr.... d*mn, you guys are so right!!!


Title: Re: Can't Do Without BWPS
Post by: Paulos on April 04, 2012, 04:22:34 AM
There are a couple BWPS records on discogs for $25 for you guys that are looking for it.  You want US pressings btw.

Thanks for that, only thing is shipping LPs from the USA to UK is quite expensive. What's the difference between the US and Euro pressings?


Title: Re: Can't Do Without BWPS
Post by: Paul J B on April 04, 2012, 07:23:21 AM
I know I'll take a lot of flack for this but, BWPS is (for me) THE essential Smile listening experience.

Part of me can't believe I just wrote that, but I believe it to be true.

As someone who was introduced to Smile via the GV box sex, and who sought out boot after boot of the unreleased material, and who forked out the $150 USD for the TSS box without complaint, I feel confident in saying the original material is sublimely dark, mysterious, psychedelic, transformative, etc, etc. I'm not trying tp denegrate or dismiss those sessions or Brian's genius in any way. I've at times worshiped  them (literally prayed to Our Prayer), Brian and the Boys (I've seen as many of his/their shows as distance and money would allow).

That said, the second movement of BWPS (on vinyl) is THE highlight of Brian Wilson's career and perhaps his most important contribution to pop music history (Pet Sounds included). The suite of Wonderful/Song For Children/CIFOTM/Surf's Up is breathtaking in it's beauty. It is a 10+ minute symphony and perfect in every way. I cry every time I listen to it, and I'm not a guy who cries easily or often. 

The entirety of the BWPS stands on it's own, without any tip of the hat to the 67 sessions. It is a transformative musical experience. It didn't need a released TSS to give it context. It blew people away who were completely unfamilar with the original tapes, my family and friends included. It cemented Brian's place as the most important American composer of the Rock and Roll era in the minds of musicians and fanboys alike.

As such, BWPS is the vital and most irreplaceable part of the Smile story. It is Brian's final celebratory triumph over history, drugs, disease, abuse and time. It is an artists completed vision, which despite hours of interesting sessions, alternate takes and undiscovered fragments TSS can never be. The result was that it was many experts pick for Album of the Year, was the most highly rated album of the year according to Metacritic's compliation of reviews and also resulted in the only Grammy any original member of the BB's has received (with all due respect to Bruce).

Anyone who would discard BWPS because of the release of TSS is, pardon my bluntness, an idiot.

Your mileage mary vary, but to dismiss BWPS is to underestimate, or miss completely, the redemptive and healing power of the music, the soul and the story of Brian Wilson.



Yes, BWPS is an artists completed vision, just not Brian's. Maybe Darian's. To say that "the entirety of BWPS stands on it's own without any tip of the hat to the '67 sessions" is preposterous.  BWPS IS the 66-67 sessions re-recorded and then assembled into a form that works as a whole. I'm glad it was released and it was an unexpected dream to see Brian and his band perform it live on the Smile tour. As someone who did not own piles of Smile boots and then heard  BWPS I thought the 2004 version was fantastic. Now that I have heard TSS, BWPS is still great to me but I am convinced that Brian's original vision of Smile was a lot different. Aside from the Beach Boys voices being superior, there is an energy from the instruments/players themselves on TSS that is missing on BWPS. That energy came from Brian and went through everyone involved at the time.


Title: Re: Can't Do Without BWPS
Post by: SMiLE Brian on April 04, 2012, 07:48:41 AM
I hate to say this, but I can't get into BWPS since the TSS came out. I respect BWPS as huge achievement in getting smile songs finished and released, but the original sessions have a vibe that BWPS doesn't. The BBs with the wrecking crew on smile cannot be beat in my opinion. I also feel like some of the BWPS songs drag Brian's changed voice along.


Title: Re: Can't Do Without BWPS
Post by: absinthe_boy on April 04, 2012, 08:06:40 AM
Remember, dear readers, that there is a difference between the European pressing and the American pressing of BWPS on vinyl.

Unusually, the European pressing is inferior. For the full-on BWPS experience you need the American pressing.

Side two is quite possibly the most sublime piece of popular music of the last 50 years.

BWPS is an integral part of the SMiLE legend. The fact that TSS have been released doesn't take anything away from BWPS. It is what it is, Brian and Van Dyke (with a little help, no doubt) finishing off something they left 37 years earlier. The instrumental segues, the new lyrics (especially Holidays) all fit perfectly. I remember when hearing an unofficial recording of a RFH show and thinking "Oh wow, that's how the jigsaw fits together".

Then seeing the show in August before the LP was released...knowing pretty much how it all went and flowed...was a great experience.


Title: Re: Can't Do Without BWPS
Post by: SBonilla on April 04, 2012, 08:21:28 AM
I hate to say this, but I can't get into BWPS since the TSS came out. I respect BWPS as huge achievement in getting smile songs finished and released, but the original sessions have a vibe that BWPS doesn't. The BBs with the wrecking crew on smile cannot be beat in my opinion. I also feel like some of the BWPS songs drag Brian's changed voice along.
I enjoyed seeing it performed at Carnegie Hall, but the album never did that much for me.


Title: Re: Can't Do Without BWPS
Post by: Jim V. on April 04, 2012, 08:34:35 AM
I loved BWPS when it first came out. And for a while it was "definitive" to me. And I basically thought it was Brian's best work. But then after a while, I realized I much prefer Pet Sounds and things like "Please Let Me Wonder" and also Brian's Sunflower work. So honestly, I kinda fell out of love with SMiLE and accepted The Beach Boys version as an unfinished thing, while being appreciative that we got official, completed Beach Boys versions of "Surf's Up", "Cabinessence", and "Heroes And Villains."

However, the release of The SMiLE Sessions got me really excited and gave me a re-appreciation of things like "Do You Like Worms" and "Child Is Father Of The Man." And after having lived with The SMiLE Sessions for a while now, I gotta say that I prefer The SMiLE Sessions versions of things like "Worms" and "Child", even if the BWPS versions have verse vocals and such. The versions from the '60s just have that certain factor that make them so much more enjoyable, even if they don't have those same parts. However, there are a few circumstances where I prefer neither TSS or the BWPS versions. And those would be "Surf's Up" from the 1971 album of the same name, and "Cabinessence" from 20/20. I think those versions of those songs are much better, and especially I think Carl's vocal on the first part of "Surf's Up" works much better than fitting Brian's part into it. Plus it makes Brian's part on the second movement sound even more touching when it comes in. But that's just me.


Title: Re: Can't Do Without BWPS
Post by: Freddie French-Pounce on April 04, 2012, 10:45:27 AM
Remember, dear readers, that there is a difference between the European pressing and the American pressing of BWPS on vinyl.

Unusually, the European pressing is inferior. For the full-on BWPS experience you need the American pressing.


What is so inferior about it? Assuming I have the European version, it sounds fantastic - what's wrong with it?


Title: Re: Can't Do Without BWPS
Post by: Wirestone on April 04, 2012, 10:53:40 AM
Yes, BWPS is an artists completed vision, just not Brian's. Maybe Darian's.

Nonsense. Darian was what he has always said he was -- an assistant. The ultimate decisions on the material included, and on the sequencing, were Brian and Van Dyke's. People have talked to Darian and other members of Brian's band about this, and the general response to calling it "Darian's work" is that if Darian had actually sequenced BWPS, it would have been far different (and more peculiar!) than what we got.


Title: Re: Can't Do Without BWPS
Post by: Paul J B on April 04, 2012, 11:42:24 AM
Yes, BWPS is an artists completed vision, just not Brian's. Maybe Darian's.

Nonsense. Darian was what he has always said he was -- an assistant. The ultimate decisions on the material included, and on the sequencing, were Brian and Van Dyke's. People have talked to Darian and other members of Brian's band about this, and the general response to calling it "Darian's work" is that if Darian had actually sequenced BWPS, it would have been far different (and more peculiar!) than what we got.

I said MAYBE Darian. My point was Brian sure as heck was not the one that got the Smile 2004 version going or finished. At this stage in Brian's life/career the assistant/s do most of the work and Brian's the guy who comes in and says OK. That's the way it all appears to me. TSS were the result of Brian doing most of the work and the assistants saying OK. BWPS was the opposite and that's why it now seems lacking to me were as TSS even "unfinished" seems far better ......... to me anyway.

The other thing about BWPS that changed for me after TSS release is the undeniable fact that it just would not have been the same record in '66 as '04. A lot of Smile "experts", many of you folks, had been saying such all along. It just never really hit me until I played BWPS yesterday and I'm now hung up on the fact that it was way too long with way too much material to have fit into the intended 30 some minutes in '66. And TSS disc 1 mirror of the '04 version is therefore also way too long. Even though I love it.


Title: Re: Can't Do Without BWPS
Post by: cablegeddon on April 04, 2012, 11:44:15 AM
And those would be "Surf's Up" from the 1971 album of the same name, and "Cabinessence" from 20/20. I think those versions of those songs are much better, and especially I think Carl's vocal on the first part of "Surf's Up" works much better than fitting Brian's part into it. Plus it makes Brian's part on the second movement sound even more touching when it comes in. But that's just me.

Good point. Surf's up 71 would've been the perfect version if they did a more powerful rendition of "Brother John". I agree that 20/20 has the best version of Cabinessence.  

Yes, BWPS is an artists completed vision, just not Brian's. Maybe Darian's.

Nonsense. Darian was what he has always said he was -- an assistant. The ultimate decisions on the material included, and on the sequencing, were Brian and Van Dyke's. People have talked to Darian and other members of Brian's band about this, and the general response to calling it "Darian's work" is that if Darian had actually sequenced BWPS, it would have been far different (and more peculiar!) than what we got.

It's been awhile since I watched Beautiful dreamer but my impression was that Darian put everything together and Brian reluctantly came in and oked everything with some minor tweaks.


Title: Re: Can't Do Without BWPS
Post by: Paulos on April 04, 2012, 11:49:48 AM
And those would be "Surf's Up" from the 1971 album of the same name, and "Cabinessence" from 20/20. I think those versions of those songs are much better, and especially I think Carl's vocal on the first part of "Surf's Up" works much better than fitting Brian's part into it. Plus it makes Brian's part on the second movement sound even more touching when it comes in. But that's just me.

Good point. Surf's up 71 would've been the perfect version if they did a more powerful rendition of "Brother John". I agree that 20/20 has the best version of Cabinessence.  

Yes, BWPS is an artists completed vision, just not Brian's. Maybe Darian's.

Nonsense. Darian was what he has always said he was -- an assistant. The ultimate decisions on the material included, and on the sequencing, were Brian and Van Dyke's. People have talked to Darian and other members of Brian's band about this, and the general response to calling it "Darian's work" is that if Darian had actually sequenced BWPS, it would have been far different (and more peculiar!) than what we got.

It's been awhile since I watched Beautiful dreamer but my impression was that Darian put everything together and Brian reluctantly came in and oked everything with some minor tweaks.

It must have been quite awhile since you saw Beautiful Dreamer as your impression is utterly wrong.


Title: Re: Can't Do Without BWPS
Post by: Wirestone on April 04, 2012, 12:12:03 PM
Yes, BWPS is an artists completed vision, just not Brian's. Maybe Darian's.

Nonsense. Darian was what he has always said he was -- an assistant. The ultimate decisions on the material included, and on the sequencing, were Brian and Van Dyke's. People have talked to Darian and other members of Brian's band about this, and the general response to calling it "Darian's work" is that if Darian had actually sequenced BWPS, it would have been far different (and more peculiar!) than what we got.

I said MAYBE Darian. My point was Brian sure as heck was not the one that got the Smile 2004 version going or finished.

Wrong and wrong. Without Brian agreeing to do the project, it would have never gotten going in the first place. His assent to doing it set everything in motion. Secondly, if he had not been involved with calling back Van Dyke (which he did on his own, without the involvement of Darian, Melinda, et al), there wouldn't have been a finished piece. And if he hadn't gone through with performing the thing, it wouldn't have been counted as finished either.

The other thing about BWPS that changed for me after TSS release is the undeniable fact that it just would not have been the same record in '66 as '04. A lot of Smile "experts", many of you folks, had been saying such all along. It just never really hit me until I played BWPS yesterday and I'm now hung up on the fact that it was way too long with way too much material to have fit into the intended 30 some minutes in '66.

BWPS is not, and could never be, a 1960s-vintage Smile. But so what? Historical accuracy isn't what makes BWPS so good. It's the active participation of the 2003 BW, VDP, and the BW band.

-----

All that being said, the 1966 sessions are special. They deserve their own release and acclaim. And I was an outspoken critic of presenting the material on the first disc of TSS the way it was. It's a little dishonest. It deprives both the 66 material of its own legitimacy and the 03 reconstruction of its separate creative goals and accomplishments.


Title: Re: Can't Do Without BWPS
Post by: absinthe_boy on April 04, 2012, 01:38:35 PM
Remember, dear readers, that there is a difference between the European pressing and the American pressing of BWPS on vinyl.

Unusually, the European pressing is inferior. For the full-on BWPS experience you need the American pressing.


What is so inferior about it? Assuming I have the European version, it sounds fantastic - what's wrong with it?

Everything.

To start off with the cover is made of thinner card and the embossed parts are only half as raised as on the American one. The cover looks, feels and probably *is* cheaper.

Although I am assured by no less than Mark Linett that the master used is the same, the matrix numbers are different so the actual stampers are different. So what I hypothesise happened is that the same analogue tape master was used but perhaps the European one was pushed through a digital system before the vinyl laccquer was cut. Mark Linett is sceptical but the fact is the matrix numbers are different and they sound different.

There is definitely more surface noise on the European LP than than the American one though they do weigh the same. The reproduction of the high frequencies is noticeably inferior on the European record.

To my ears, the European pressing is marginally better than the CD, and with the high frequency problems its really not much better. The US pressing on the other hand is a sonic marvel, rarely bettered. It is right up there with the best that Telarc ever produced, or TM-L and Masterdisk. Its one of those records that you put on and regardless of whether your audience likes the music....their jaws drop.



Title: Re: Can't Do Without BWPS
Post by: Freddie French-Pounce on April 04, 2012, 01:54:05 PM
Remember, dear readers, that there is a difference between the European pressing and the American pressing of BWPS on vinyl.

Unusually, the European pressing is inferior. For the full-on BWPS experience you need the American pressing.


What is so inferior about it? Assuming I have the European version, it sounds fantastic - what's wrong with it?

Everything.

To start off with the cover is made of thinner card and the embossed parts are only half as raised as on the American one. The cover looks, feels and probably *is* cheaper.

Although I am assured by no less than Mark Linett that the master used is the same, the matrix numbers are different so the actual stampers are different. So what I hypothesise happened is that the same analogue tape master was used but perhaps the European one was pushed through a digital system before the vinyl laccquer was cut. Mark Linett is sceptical but the fact is the matrix numbers are different and they sound different.

There is definitely more surface noise on the European LP than than the American one though they do weigh the same. The reproduction of the high frequencies is noticeably inferior on the European record.

To my ears, the European pressing is marginally better than the CD, and with the high frequency problems its really not much better. The US pressing on the other hand is a sonic marvel, rarely bettered. It is right up there with the best that Telarc ever produced, or TM-L and Masterdisk. Its one of those records that you put on and regardless of whether your audience likes the music....their jaws drop.



Anyone in england got one to spare?  :lol


Title: Re: Can't Do Without BWPS
Post by: onkster on April 04, 2012, 06:50:44 PM
Re-listened to BWPS after having  been absorbed in TSS for a few months...and damn, I'm still mightily impressed by BWPS! All in all, it's a more cohesive work altogether.

I don't much get into the "it's not the same as what would've been in '67" thing--that all just gets too time-travelly and ultimately too conservative of an approach for me.

BWPS is what happened in the real world, in this timeline. And I daresay that many of the new lyrics make it even more relevant to today than they could have back then (I'm thinking about the lyrics to 'Song for Children', specifically, as it relates to Brian's fatherhood). Also--I can hear a lot of little details in BWPS (like that beloved clarinet) that practically get lost in the mix of the old tapes.

They're both fantastic. But BWPS is the only one that's complete.

And if there happens to be a needledrop of BWPS US vinyl, Please Make me aware of where I might find such a thing...


Title: Re: Can't Do Without BWPS
Post by: I. Spaceman on April 04, 2012, 07:24:36 PM
Brian's version is worth it, because it facilitated the release of the Beach Boys' recordings. But I have no need of ever listening to it again.


Title: Re: Can't Do Without BWPS
Post by: Micha on April 04, 2012, 10:37:30 PM
DVD Trailer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6G_SK-N6Iw



Ha! C'est moi at 0.38 – "Glasgow"!

And that's actually me at 0:40 "I'm from Germany"...

BWPS is not, and could never be, a 1960s-vintage Smile. But so what?

I agree, especially with "so what". Though I think the 60s backing tracks are far superior, the composition as a whole of BWPS is way better than what we would have gotten had SMiLE been released in 1967. A 1967 SMiLE would have probably no segues and many tracks missing.

I'm glad someone praises BWPS on this board. I only disagree with the Don about Brian's singing, as I think it's not very good on the record, especially if you play TLOS before it.

Last year I played the live DVD over my stereo speakers, and it was just so great, much greater than the studio CD. Or my (sadly European) vinyl.

How can you tell quickly if it is a European or US pressing? Does it say "Manufactured in the US" on the back cover? Man, I'd really like to listen to that, as the TSS vinyl really is superior to the CD.


Title: Re: Can't Do Without BWPS
Post by: Lonely Summer on April 04, 2012, 10:43:30 PM
I hate to say this, but I can't get into BWPS since the TSS came out. I respect BWPS as huge achievement in getting smile songs finished and released, but the original sessions have a vibe that BWPS doesn't. The BBs with the wrecking crew on smile cannot be beat in my opinion. I also feel like some of the BWPS songs drag Brian's changed voice along.
I think Brian's voice is the biggest obstacle to me enjoying BWPS as much as TSS. Cabinessence and Surf's Up were so much better with Brian's original vocals...and Carl's, for that matter. Brian's group did an incredible job of replicating the sound of those songs, though, no fault to be found there. And it is nice to hear it all in a completed form. I'm glad we have both, but if I could only have one, it would be TSS.


Title: Re: Can't Do Without BWPS
Post by: absinthe_boy on April 05, 2012, 03:01:06 AM
BWPS isn't what SMiLE would have been in 1967. Neither is TSS. The SMiLE that might have been in 1967 does not and never can exist.


BWPS is, however, Brian and Van Dyke returning to complete what they stopped in 1966/67.

If a painter started a work, left a gap of 30/40 years and then completed it....it would not be the same had the painter completed the work without the gap. But that makes it no less valid.

So what?

BWPS is what it is.....the two creative forces behind SMiLE completing it.

The only thing I might like would be a reconstructed SMiLE taking what was recorded in TSS and adding new vocals/instruments where necessary. That would crucially be in addition to TSS which has its own immovable place in the SMiLE jigsaw.


As for spare US pressings of BWPS.....I bought two at the time, and one is staying unopened until the one I play becomes worn out.


Title: Re: Can't Do Without BWPS
Post by: The Heartical Don on April 05, 2012, 03:14:43 AM
BWPS isn't what SMiLE would have been in 1967. Neither is TSS. The SMiLE that might have been in 1967 does not and never can exist.


BWPS is, however, Brian and Van Dyke returning to complete what they stopped in 1966/67.

If a painter started a work, left a gap of 30/40 years and then completed it....it would not be the same had the painter completed the work without the gap. But that makes it no less valid.

So what?

BWPS is what it is.....the two creative forces behind SMiLE completing it.

The only thing I might like would be a reconstructed SMiLE taking what was recorded in TSS and adding new vocals/instruments where necessary. That would crucially be in addition to TSS which has its own immovable place in the SMiLE jigsaw.


As for spare US pressings of BWPS.....I bought two at the time, and one is staying unopened until the one I play becomes worn out.



(sigh of relief) I was afraid you'd write: 'until the end of times'. Now I can diagnose you as being only partly an OCD patient.


Title: Re: Can't Do Without BWPS
Post by: Micha on April 05, 2012, 08:48:22 AM
BWPS is, however, Brian and Van Dyke returning to complete what they stopped in 1966/67.

If a painter started a work, left a gap of 30/40 years and then completed it....it would not be the same had the painter completed the work without the gap. But that makes it no less valid.

Absolutely valid point.

The only thing I might like would be a reconstructed SMiLE taking what was recorded in TSS and adding new vocals/instruments where necessary.

Me too. (Well, it's not the only thing I would like, but one thing I'd like to have... :wink)


Title: Re: Can't Do Without BWPS
Post by: Jim V. on April 05, 2012, 11:11:07 AM
Brian's version is worth it, because it facilitated the release of the Beach Boys' recordings. But I have no need of ever listening to it again.

Agreed. If it took BWPS's release to get TSS, then it's worth it to me. But honestly, the only times I usually put on BWPS is to check out a difference between the original sessions and the '04 version. I just don't really have any interest in hearing the "new" versions.


Title: Re: Can't Do Without BWPS
Post by: Iron Horse-Apples on April 05, 2012, 11:41:13 AM
My favourite version of SMiLE is my own second night recording on minidisc.

SMiLE is incomplete without a ten minute standing ovation after it. I listen to the very last clap.


Title: Re: Can't Do Without BWPS
Post by: Cabinessenceking on April 05, 2012, 01:09:47 PM
I guess I'm not the only one wanting to hear the BWPS backing tracks for all the songs? ;)


Title: Re: Can't Do Without BWPS
Post by: Amanda Hart on April 05, 2012, 01:20:11 PM
Brian's version is worth it, because it facilitated the release of the Beach Boys' recordings. But I have no need of ever listening to it again.

Agreed. If it took BWPS's release to get TSS, then it's worth it to me. But honestly, the only times I usually put on BWPS is to check out a difference between the original sessions and the '04 version. I just don't really have any interest in hearing the "new" versions.

I'm with you guys. I value and appreciate BWPS, but I almost never listen to it anymore. Now that we have the box, the spins I do give it will be fewer and further between.


Title: Re: Can't Do Without BWPS
Post by: Biggus Dikkus on April 05, 2012, 01:48:03 PM
While I vastly enjoy BWPS, I think that TSS just sounds better. The bass and muddier sound that accompanies TSS makes the album sound much more full and warm. This is particularly noticeable during the Bicycle Rider Chorus and "Iron horse" section.
 
I still love In Blue Hawaii and Song For Children, though.


Title: Re: Can't Do Without BWPS
Post by: Chris Brown on April 05, 2012, 05:41:38 PM
Brian's version is worth it, because it facilitated the release of the Beach Boys' recordings. But I have no need of ever listening to it again.

Agreed. If it took BWPS's release to get TSS, then it's worth it to me. But honestly, the only times I usually put on BWPS is to check out a difference between the original sessions and the '04 version. I just don't really have any interest in hearing the "new" versions.

I'm with you guys. I value and appreciate BWPS, but I almost never listen to it anymore. Now that we have the box, the spins I do give it will be fewer and further between.

That's pretty much my feeling on it at this point.  I do enjoy the newly completed tracks in most cases, but listening to songs like "Wonderful" or "Surf's Up" just makes me want to go back to TSS and listen to the real things.


Title: Re: Can't Do Without BWPS
Post by: runnersdialzero on April 05, 2012, 06:08:41 PM
Every time you spell Smile as SMiLE, an angel's wings are forcibly torn off its body.


Title: Re: Can't Do Without BWPS
Post by: Jim V. on April 05, 2012, 07:13:39 PM
Every time you spell Smile as SMiLE, an angel's wings are forcibly torn off its body.

Ha. I know it bugs you runners, but even on the boxset it is spelled that way. And it just seems right that way. But I can definitely see why its annoying.


Title: Re: Can't Do Without BWPS
Post by: drbeachboy on April 05, 2012, 07:16:30 PM
Every time you spell Smile as SMiLE, an angel's wings are forcibly torn off its body.
And did the angel cry with the one you just had forcibly torn off?


Title: Re: Can't Do Without BWPS
Post by: runnersdialzero on April 05, 2012, 07:31:23 PM
Every time you spell Smile as SMiLE, an angel's wings are forcibly torn off its body.

Ha. I know it bugs you runners, but even on the boxset it is spelled that way. And it just seems right that way. But I can definitely see why its annoying.

Mayn. The box set spelling is a product of 2011 and years of people outside the band spelling it that way. It's like how LMAO is commonly used, means something, but is still annoying as all hell.

I don't even think the 2004 Brian version was referred to SMiLE officially. Back when it was being worked on, any literature on the matter simply calls it Smile, and it stayed that way for years and years. Don't know about "right". imo. Totally the result of fans spelling it that way online recently.

Also, every time I see it spelled that way, I hear it like this in my head: http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/2/20/800088/THHHMIIIYULLUH.mp3 (http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/2/20/800088/THHHMIIIYULLUH.mp3)

Can you imagine? Such a hellish existence? You don't want to.


Title: Re: Can't Do Without BWPS
Post by: Smilin Ed H on April 06, 2012, 01:07:21 AM
SMiLE


Title: Re: Can't Do Without BWPS
Post by: John Manning on April 06, 2012, 01:37:14 AM
My favourite version of SMiLE is my own second night recording on minidisc.

SMiLE is incomplete without a ten minute standing ovation after it. I listen to the very last clap.

My favs are the first, second, third, fourth, fifth and sixth nights captured the same way.


Title: Re: Can't Do Without BWPS
Post by: Iron Horse-Apples on April 06, 2012, 02:04:09 AM
My favourite version of SMiLE is my own second night recording on minidisc.

SMiLE is incomplete without a ten minute standing ovation after it. I listen to the very last clap.

My favs are the first, second, third, fourth, fifth and sixth nights captured the same way.

The live versions were something else, eh?


Title: Re: Can't Do Without BWPS
Post by: UK_Surf on April 06, 2012, 02:25:00 AM
My favourite version of SMiLE is my own second night recording on minidisc.

SMiLE is incomplete without a ten minute standing ovation after it. I listen to the very last clap.

Absolutely agreed! The second night was truly something special.

If you want to re-live it - or, at least, my fevered ramblings about it - check out this extended essay, replete with back-stage conversations with Darian Sahanaja, Domenic Priore, and, erm, Spritualized's Jason Pierce, plus a whole whack of Smile fans:
http://www.earcandymag.com/smileliveRFH2-21-04.htm


Title: Re: Can't Do Without BWPS
Post by: runnersdialzero on April 06, 2012, 03:45:00 AM
SMiLE

uR TeH ReAL ReBEL EvErY DAmN DAy, SMiLIN eD H.


Title: Re: Can't Do Without BWPS
Post by: Jaspy on April 06, 2012, 05:32:52 AM
I love BWPS, it's the real deal for me.
BWPS is the little brother of the unfinished 1967 SMiLE and TSS the little brother of BWPS and SMiLEY SMILE the son of TSS.
Only complaint about BWPS is that it doesn't include "With Me Tonight", "He Gives Speeches" & "You're Welcome".


Title: Re: Can't Do Without BWPS
Post by: Paulos on April 09, 2012, 12:43:36 PM
I've got BWPS on US vinyl headed my way, $36 including shipping, thank you ebay!


Title: Re: Can't Do Without BWPS
Post by: Smilin Ed H on April 09, 2012, 01:01:42 PM
Cute, Kitty.


Title: Re: Can't Do Without BWPS
Post by: SamMcK on April 09, 2012, 01:22:08 PM
I couldn't do without either version of SMiLE. ;D We're very lucky to have both as well as all we've got to look forward to in the future! It all helps to add to Brian and The Beach Boys legacy.


Title: Re: Can't Do Without BWPS
Post by: Mikie on April 09, 2012, 02:43:23 PM
Cute, Kitty.

No, Ed, it's "kiddie".   As in, "There's a few kiddies on this board".


Title: Re: Can't Do Without BWPS
Post by: Micha on April 14, 2012, 07:33:18 AM
Just stumbled over this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAHdi23z3cg

"We released the original SMiLE album in 2004" - you would get stoned if you posted that on this board! :-D


Title: Re: Can't Do Without BWPS
Post by: Micha on April 15, 2012, 10:04:33 PM
you would get stoned if you posted that on this board! :-D

I mean "lapidated" of course. :wink


Title: Re: Can't Do Without BWPS
Post by: Runaways on April 16, 2012, 08:43:57 AM
Random question, does anyone know if the Canadian and US pressings of the vinyl are the same?  I wanna say when I got mine off amazon a couple years ago, the warehouse it came from was Canadian or something, and it's nagged at me every so often.


Title: Re: Can't Do Without BWPS
Post by: MBE on May 10, 2012, 12:28:38 AM
Every time you spell Smile as SMiLE, an angel's wings are forcibly torn off its body.
I've never spelled it that way. It's too cute.


Title: Re: Can't Do Without BWPS
Post by: runnersdialzero on May 10, 2012, 01:35:31 AM
BWPS. Bwps. Bwoops.


Title: Re: Can't Do Without BWPS
Post by: Pet Sounder on May 10, 2012, 05:25:58 PM
The ending of "On A Holiday" is best part of BWPS.  "Whisperin' winds..."  Too bad it wasn't recorded at that tempo and with that instrumentation with the original Beach Boys vocals.  The Smiley-Smile paste-on at the end of "Holidays" on TSS was a bummer. 


Title: Re: Can't Do Without BWPS
Post by: pixletwin on July 20, 2012, 08:41:27 AM
Finally herd BWPS on vinyl for the first time last night (and my first time hearing the whole thing since TSS came out) and it lived up to all the hype. It doesn't even sound like the same album to me... and... except for a few things (no BB vocals) I was surprised that I like it better than the original sessions. Sonically it is like TSS is a box of 32 Crayola Crayons and BWPS (vinyl) is a box of 64 Crayolas.  ;D


Title: Re: Can't Do Without BWPS
Post by: SIP.FLAC on July 20, 2012, 06:42:57 PM
Brian's not yelled old man vocals are very poignant.


Title: Re: Can't Do Without BWPS
Post by: AvanTodd on July 21, 2012, 01:48:29 AM
Finally herd BWPS on vinyl for the first time last night (and my first time hearing the whole thing since TSS came out) and it lived up to all the hype. It doesn't even sound like the same album to me... and... except for a few things (no BB vocals) I was surprised that I like it better than the original sessions. Sonically it is like TSS is a box of 32 Crayola Crayons and BWPS (vinyl) is a box of 64 Crayolas.  ;D

Well said.  :)


Title: Re: Can't Do Without BWPS
Post by: hypehat on July 21, 2012, 03:13:49 AM
My favourite version of SMiLE is my own second night recording on minidisc.

SMiLE is incomplete without a ten minute standing ovation after it. I listen to the very last clap.

Absolutely agreed! The second night was truly something special.

If you want to re-live it - or, at least, my fevered ramblings about it - check out this extended essay, replete with back-stage conversations with Darian Sahanaja, Domenic Priore, and, erm, Spritualized's Jason Pierce, plus a whole whack of Smile fans:
http://www.earcandymag.com/smileliveRFH2-21-04.htm

Just saw this - absolutely love the Jason Pierce quote  :lol


Title: Re: Can't Do Without BWPS
Post by: Sav-Man on July 21, 2012, 04:01:34 AM
The live performance was utterly sublime, and conceived/executed as such, I agree with all of this.

There's always a 'but' on this board, so respectfully, I'd offer this: the cd did not ultimately (and I think probably could not) capture the magic of the evening, because it was conceived as a live piece, and it was recorded to replicate that live production as closely as possible. So the recording was pretty much geared to putting down all the live parts on record as per the live arrangement, which causes some head-scratching. As a listening experience, the distractions aren't just the fake harpsichord here, the odd bit of 'lost in performance translation' (cf bull horn on 'holidays') there...from a production standpoint, and perhaps conceptually, it needed some further tweaking.

But that's a quibble. A major, and important undertaking, an unforgettable experience, and an indispensable document of a crucial moment in musical history.

Agreed. I watched the '04 live performance of BWPS (on Youtube) again last week, and it was even more incredible, b/c you could actually see, for instance, The Stockholm Horns & Strings band put on the firehats (on "Mrs. O' Leary") and display/eat vegetables (on "My Vega-tables"), not to mention that Brian looked absolutely happy and animated! Hearing him chuckle during the "Workshop" segment and watching him clap his hands and singing along during "My Vega-tables" was contagious and you could see it w/ the rest of his band. Obviously, w/ the studio version, you can't see what was going on, since it's audio only.

But yeah, the fact that BWPS as a CD really was and is a masterpiece after all the hype was nothing short of a miracle. Even if it ultimately isn't exactly the way Brian and the BBs would have done it had it come out in 1967, it's the closest thing to a "finished" Smile we have, and I think it'll be remembered as a classic in the form that it is. Only Brian himself would know how close (or not close) BWPS is to the way it would have been had it come out as a 1967 BB record, and I haven't read any quotes anywhere where Brian said anything about this (and I suspect that he might not remember everything from that period, since he was doing a lot of drugs at that time--just a guess on my part). It's certainly one of Brian's "must-have" solo CDs.  TSS is an absolute must as well, but even though some of the '67 instrumental tracks may be better than they are on the '04 version (especially "Do You Like Worms"), we have to remember that TSS still isn't a completed 1967 Smile per se--that's why it's called The Smile Sessions. The "real" 1967 Smile wasn't finished, and we'll never know how that particular Smile would have turned out. I think that doing BWPS probably helped bring some closure to Brian in terms of ending (or at least reducing) any remaining paranoia he might have regarding that whole period in his life. And it could be argued that had Brian and his band not done BWPS, TSS may never have been released. So it's a winning situation for both CDs, and I'll continue to play both of them for years to come.  :)


Title: Re: Can't Do Without BWPS
Post by: AllIWannaDo on July 21, 2012, 04:04:04 AM
Finally herd BWPS on vinyl for the first time last night (and my first time hearing the whole thing since TSS came out) and it lived up to all the hype. It doesn't even sound like the same album to me... and... except for a few things (no BB vocals) I was surprised that I like it better than the original sessions. Sonically it is like TSS is a box of 32 Crayola Crayons and BWPS (vinyl) is a box of 64 Crayolas.  ;D

Well said.  :)


The above helped finally made me borrow my mates vinyl and play it back on another mates fancy deck/studio setup
WELLLLLLLLLL WOOOOOORRRRTHHHY of all the accolades mentioned on here - GREAT MIX, sonically its my fav mix atm - everyone should check it out
really nice!!!


Title: Re: Can't Do Without BWPS
Post by: Lowbacca on July 21, 2012, 04:06:41 AM
And it could be argued that had Brian and his band not done BWPS, TSS may never have been released.
... at least not in the sequence (1st disc) that we now have.  :)
And yeah, obviously BWPS also served as a huge advertising campaign for all things SMiLE. It made the general public 'aware' of what was still gathering dust in the archives.


Title: Re: Can't Do Without BWPS
Post by: Micha on July 21, 2012, 05:05:05 AM
Even if it ultimately isn't exactly the way Brian and the BBs would have done it had it come out in 1967, it's the closest thing to a "finished" Smile we have, and I think it'll be remembered as a classic in the form that it is. Only Brian himself would know how close (or not close) BWPS is to the way it would have been had it come out as a 1967 BB record

And do you know? It doesn't even matter!

TSS is an absolute must as well, but even though some of the '67 instrumental tracks may be better than they are on the '04 version (especially "Do You Like Worms"), we have to remember that TSS still isn't a completed 1967 Smile per se--that's why it's called The Smile Sessions. The "real" 1967 Smile wasn't finished, and we'll never know how that particular Smile would have turned out.

Exactly!


Title: Re: Can't Do Without BWPS
Post by: PS on July 21, 2012, 10:36:31 AM
For me, it's the live version of BWPS, as captured in 5.1, on the Burbank DVD. The studio recording feels relatively - airless - by comparison. And yes, I agree that all the new changes and additions are superb, apt, and now indelible.

I, too, hear them all the time in my head.


Title: Re: Can't Do Without BWPS
Post by: AllIWannaDo on July 21, 2012, 02:13:16 PM
For me, it's the live version of BWPS, as captured in 5.1, on the Burbank DVD. The studio recording feels relatively - airless - by comparison. And yes, I agree that all the new changes and additions are superb, apt, and now indelible.

I, too, hear them all the time in my head.

Yeah , i bought the DVD too, seems abit overtly 'jolly' to me?
I've watched some youtube clips taken from some gigs and, although the sound doesnt compare - the actual vibe/performace is pretty different.
And that itself is also diff in vibe to TSS, these are abit more solem/reverant/spiritual - Ideally I'd love to have abit more of the weight of the TSS vibe coming through in the live stuff, i mean the cumulative/some of its contents vibe

may have waffled alittle there and muddied what i mean.. o well


Title: Re: Can't Do Without BWPS
Post by: Micha on July 26, 2012, 10:06:31 AM
Yeah , i bought the DVD too, seems abit overtly 'jolly' to me?

Hey, the album name is "SMiLE", did you expect dark, spooky tunes? :wink


Title: Re: Can't Do Without BWPS
Post by: Rocky Raccoon on July 26, 2012, 10:46:19 AM
It really pisses me off when people say Brian isn't really in charge of his solo career, that it's all a show put on by his family and his bandmates.  There's no proof that such is the case, it's just really cynical.  If you watch Brian in interviews, he seems genuinely interested in what he's doing.  There is no doubt that Smile would have never been finished without Brian allowing it and overseeing it.  So he had a lot of help, give the guy a break.  One of the reasons Smile fell apart in the first place was that he was too determined to do it all himself, he was being overworked.  This is the way Brian should work, just the right amount without putting him in a stressful situation.  But it is still very much his work.  Those are still his arrangements.  That's still his music.  Just listen to it and be glad it exists and shut up.


Title: Re: Can't Do Without BWPS
Post by: runnersdialzero on July 26, 2012, 12:47:30 PM
There's no proof that such is the case, it's just really cynical.

I wouldn't say there's no proof. Still, it's clear that, while he's not always into it, Brian does enjoy some aspects of still doing this. I doubt they could outright make him do what he does if he were really that disinterested.


Title: Re: Can't Do Without BWPS
Post by: Sav-Man on July 26, 2012, 02:08:56 PM
It really pisses me off when people say Brian isn't really in charge of his solo career, that it's all a show put on by his family and his bandmates.  There's no proof that such is the case, it's just really cynical.  If you watch Brian in interviews, he seems genuinely interested in what he's doing.  There is no doubt that Smile would have never been finished without Brian allowing it and overseeing it.  So he had a lot of help, give the guy a break.  One of the reasons Smile fell apart in the first place was that he was too determined to do it all himself, he was being overworked.  This is the way Brian should work, just the right amount without putting him in a stressful situation.  But it is still very much his work.  Those are still his arrangements.  That's still his music.  Just listen to it and be glad it exists and shut up.
[/q

I think that Brian is basically cool w/ the creation of the music itself (i.e., writing songs, creating vocal arrangements, teaching the songs to his touring band or the BBs, and then recording). It's the "promotion/touring/doing interviews" thing that Brian isn't all that keen on doing. He's just not that into doing interviews and talking about himself, and I can't say that I blame him. Most interviewers ask the same boring questions over and over, and I imagine that Brian probably just gets tired of the lack of interesting queries when he does interviews. I absolutely love the way he zinged that interviewer on the BBs' Google interview (Google interviewer: "what goes through your mind when you sing?" Brian: "Well, nothing goes through my mind. When I sing, the sound goes through my throat and out of my mouth." I 've never laughed so hard in my life)! I think people take Brian's sometimes poker-faced demeanor when he does interviews (and sometimes concerts) as a sign that he's "being controlled," when in reality, to me anyway, it's just that he's more interested in being a musician and a creator of music than he is in being a "star" per se. He does the best he can, and I'm glad that we have both versions of Smile (BWPS and TSS) to dig.  :)


Title: Re: Can't Do Without BWPS
Post by: Sheriff John Stone on July 26, 2012, 02:27:34 PM
If you watch Brian in interviews, he seems genuinely interested in what he's doing. 

 :o ???


Title: Re: Can't Do Without BWPS
Post by: Sav-Man on July 26, 2012, 02:41:36 PM
Oops! Sorry about the mistake with my last post! I was trying to quote Rocky Raccoon and add my take, and the computer did something screwy there! :-[ My post begins w/ "I think Brian is basically cool with..."