The Smiley Smile Message Board

I have always assumed that BEFORE the Smile Sessions started, Brian had written enough tracks to fill an album (perhaps 12-14 songs) which was given a working title of "Dumb Angel".  Presumably, these were either written down somewhere, or he could have played piano demos of them.

The second stage would have been to record the backing tracks, vocals, and perhaps refine the lyrics in collaboration with Van Dyke. This is presumably what happened with Pet Sounds and most of his previous albums.

What seems to have happened with Smile is that Brian got distracted/confused whilst laying down the backing tracks, started playing around with other musical projects, and ended up not completing any of it.  

My point is that I don't think he was "making up Smile as he went along". Originally, there was probably a list of tracks (already written and prepared) which he had to produce and record in the studio. It was at this stage that he started having his personal break down.

I think it may have started out as something very focused, and then fallen apart due to Brian's illness and eccentric behaviour. He certainly sounds very focused during the during the recording sessions for tracks like Worms- I think he had a clear plan to follow at that point.

Do other people think that originally all the "Dumb Angel" tracks were prepared and could be played by Brian on the Piano in the same way that he could play "Surf's Up" ? I suppose the only way we know the lyrics for Surfs up is becuse that documentary happened to feature the song (otherwise it may have been lost forever)-. When that was filmed, could Brian have done a similar thing with all the other "Dumb Angel" tracks ?

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OK, maybe it's me, but I've read this four times now, and it still falls apart in the middle and makes no sense from thereon.

I've read AGD's post twice now, and it made sense both times.

What is it with the recent influx? There's a search function on the board... sure, no one's perfect, but maybe some of the newbies should acquaint themselves with it...

It is confusing but what he's basically trying to say is Brian at one point had an basic plan or end game for SMiLE but as he began recording the tracks it all fell apart due to his state of mind at the time.  Which is indeed possible. 

We've all spoken about it before - the drugs, the strive for perfection, mental illness, doubts about the product being commercial.  The only thing I disagree with is the assertion that Brian wasn't making up SMiLE as he went along.  I think as far as recording the album went much like "Good Vibrations", Brian would try different feels and record different pieces sometimes at whim.  He would get an idea for a song or a section, record it and then discard it in favor of another or re-record it and well that is the story of the SMiLE sessions isn't it? 

SMiLE was an evolving project.  He may have come in with a plan for various themes (note: not movements) encompassing Americana, spiritual and physical well being but the process of shaping these ideas in the studio was another matter entirely and was probably what Carl Wilson referred to in "An American Band" as "Brian running into all sorts of problems on SMiLE".

I'm sorry if I offended anyone with my newbieness.

Mother deer to Bambi   "...Man!" The elder was slain by man sortly after that. :'(

Dumb Angel was a working title a stop gap measure..Never intended to be final title for lp..Just like California Girls original title was I dig those girls..  Or something like that..Hope this helps the newbies

I guess he's just proposing the idea that at one point, in the summer of '66 or so, there was a batch of 12-14 songs that were all fully written and arranged as whole pieces with no ambiguity about which section went where or what order the verses were in, that Brian could have performed or demo'd as whole songs, and that it was only once tracking started in earnest that they started being broken down into their individual components and shuffled around, which led to the plot eventually being lost.

Interesting idea, don't think there's much evidence for it.

I dunno, wasn't the inspiration for the modular recording based on the success of of the same technique in Good Vibrations? And since GV was recorded during the Pet Sounds sessions, if this is the case it would hardly give Brian time to write up any other tunes in the interim. And if you mean the songs that we did get for Smile, well, we did have a couple demos (Surf's Up and Vegetables) but for the most part it seems like Brian didn't really have a handle on the structure of each song, hence why the demo we have of H&V is nothing at all like any of the released versions.

Completed and released in September of 1967.

Yes- that's exactly the question I am asking.

Brian did not produce an album like Pet Sounds by making things up as he went along. He had whole pieces of music written and prepared before the recording sessions began. During the recording sessions he might have experimented with vocals and musical arrangements, but basically each song was already written.

I would imagine that in autumn 1966 Smile (or Dumb Angel as it was then known) was in a similar state of construction. Brian could sit down at a piano and play demos of each track if he was asked to do that. So in that sense the album was "complete" even if it was never recorded.

But... I don't recall anyone ever suggesting he was making up Smile as he went along. He always had the music written before starting recording on any album (the lyrics, not so much). Hence my confusion, frosted by the fact that the Dumb Angel concept existed for maybe a few weeks in late summer 1966 and was only ever a working title for the next album.

By reading various accounts (such as the Steven Gaines book) Brian's erratic behaviour started in mid to late 1966 and ended up with a complete mental breakdown during the recording sessions. During this time he would not focus on anything, continually started work on new projects, and was always changed his mind about the music he was writing. Presumably, he was relatively focused at the beginning of the Smile sessions but lost the way half way through... effectively making things up as he went along rather than working to a plan.

I would suggest that prior to the recording sessions there was a definite idea about the contents of the forthcoming album, but presumably this was never recorded or written down.

Only speculation by me, I'm not tryiong to 100% assert that this is the case !

Don't get this post -  are Caroline, Now and lunarjetman one and the same?

Utter rubbish. I have never read that Brian had "a complete mental breakdown" during the Smile sessions, and fro an excellent reason: he didn't, as the new box amply demonstrates.


Again, complete nonsense: I'd dearly love to know what books you're reading, because I don't have them, and I've got just about every one there is (including the one I wrote myself !). True, Brian turned to obsessively re-recording "Heroes & Villains", but there was a plan behind that - Capitol were screaming for a single.

The December track list.

Peter Reum has stated that Brian had a nervous breakdown in March 67.  Unclear what the evidence is for that.

Hmmm, I've never heard that. Must have gotten over it pretty quickly or it didn't impede Brian continuing at pace it doesn't seem.

Hey- no need to get your knickers in a twist !


Here's a few clips from Steven Gaines book (my only source of information) about Brians behaviour during the Smile sessions....


Brian's behaviour grew even more peculiar and childish

[At David Anderele's apartment] Brian stood in front of the painiting for a long time, perhaps as long as an hour..... Brian became increasing distressed, claiming the number of objects in the painting, the circles and designs in the background.... were relating to different stages in Brian's life... he became so upset that eventually Anderele called Michael Vosse to ... take him home

That same Autumn, Brian's deep, paranoid obsession with Phil Spector began in earnest.... suddenly Brian thought Phil Spector was out to control or destroy him in some way. Brian would go to the record store and buy 10 copies of "Be My Baby" and literally wer out the grooves playing them... listening for hidden messages and meanings.

Brian said he had walked into a movie theater where Seconds, a new film starring Rock Hudson, was playing. ... [Brian said] "then the whole thing was there. I mean my whole life. Birth death and rebirth".... "it was mind-f***. Spector's mind f***".... [Brian then walked over to his jukebox and played the song Be My Baby]. He played sond over and over again, at least 20 times. As the song played, he sat down at his desk and began to draw diagrams with a felt-tip pen.

During that fateful autum, Brian became obsessively concerned that Murry was planting eavesdropping devices in his home an automobile.

During the preparation of Dumb Angel, Brians creativity was fueled with not only hashish but also a prescription amphetimine called Deasbutol.... Under this barrage of drugs Brian's mind became fragmented and out of control. ideas for new projects came in powerful spurts, distracting him for long periods from Dumb Angel. These myriad concepts soon became to overtake work on the album itself, as even the album's name changed to simply Smile.

Over twenty songs were preapred for the new album... According to David Anderele, they recorded enough songs for three albums but the material changed continually



That (to me at least) sound like a complete mental breakdown and evidence that the recording sessions deviated from the original Dumb Angel / Smile project.

I am still curious to know whether the original Smile/Dumb Angel tracks were written (and therefore at some stage of completion) in mid-1966, prior to the start of the recording sessions. Brain (when he was comparitively stable) would surely not have entered the recording studio without a body of pre-written music to actually record.

I strongly suggest that, before you peddle any more tosh such as you have before, you read a few more books. At the very least, read Peter Ames Carlin's excellent BW biography Catch A Wave and Jon Stebbins latest effort, published a few weeks ago. Search out some of the major articles. Google a few sites. To base your exceedingly shaky premise on a misreading of one book is, frankly, asking to be pulled up about it.

As for this - "I am still curious to know whether the original Smile/Dumb Angel tracks were written (and therefore at some stage of completion) in mid-1966, prior to the start of the recording sessions. Brain (when he was comparitively stable) would surely not have entered the recording studio without a body of pre-written music to actually record" - if you seriously think Brian booked studio time and musicians and then sat there waiting for inspiration to strike or cooked up something on the fly... well, at the very least, you've not listened to CD2 of the small box. Because if you had, you wouldn't ask such a daft question. Brian spent three weeks writing with Tony Asher before beginning to record Pet Sounds: I very much doubt he suddenly changed his established working patterns in the space of some six months.

I think the whole point of the posters original question is getting lost here.  If I am understanding correctly, the original query was (to paraphrase) "Had Brian and Van Dyke completed the writing of the songs they originally intended to be on the album before Brian started recording and then began to rewrite and change his mind, or had they not finished that process and figured they would do it as they went along?"

I think this is a valid question, though one I don't think there is a definitive answer to. 

Andrew- we are interested in what you have to say, but there's no need for bad manners thank you.

Actually, I am in agreement with you that Brian would not have booked studio time without something concrete to record AND would not have changed his established working patterns. That's why I think that the album was probably already written at the "Dumb Angel" stage but as Brian's mental state began to deteriorate, the sessions did not end up recording everything that he had originally written. Instead, it moved on into different territory.  I would like to know what Brian originally had planned, when he was (presumably) more focused in a single direction.

Yes- this is the question I am asking.

What you think is based on reading one book, published 25 years ago. Brian's mental state did not deteriorate anything like as much, or as badly, as you seem to think - just listen to the sessions. Read more books, get a bigger sample, and then you'll understand that there was no separate "Dumb Angel" album: "Dumb Angel" was the working title for Smile for maybe a month, tops. As for composing the songs and working out the basic arrangements before going into the studio, yes, of course he did.

When exactly did Van and Brian begin writing songs?  Pet Sounds time period, right?  so, early '66.   Brian has said numerous times (though we must allot for the "Brian says many different things, blah, blah, blah" factor) that he and van wrote very quickly, the songs just poured out - so one might infer that a completed group of songs did exist - lyrics and all - prior to the sessions beginning in earnest. 
It was after that, with everything that was happening, that things were changed (ie "Van I need different/more/new lyrics).   
One of Brian's quotes from the TSS box book bugs me - (paraphrased) "Heroes and Villains came out eventually, but not in the way Van and I had originally concieved."  So then, what did they originally concieve?  Sadly he doesn't (can't?) elaborate.

I will read more books about this and , yes, Brian does sound sharp during the recording sessions (and I've heard just about every minute of the Sea of Tunes series plus all the others). But there was no doubt a lot of "strange behaviour" going on outside the studio which which led to several of the planned sessions being cancelled (according to the Gaines book at least).

Regarding the writing sessions with Van Dyke, it has always struck me that there are very few of Van Dyke's original lyrics featured in the released Smile material. There are known lyrics for Heroes and Villains, Surf's Up, Cabinessence, a tiny bit of Worms, a tiny bit of Great Shape, Wonderful, Wind Chimes and Vega-Tables. (Although the latter two tracks are not particularly cryptic and Van-Dyke like in their nature).

It doesn't seem to be a large quantity of lyrics given the time that he and Brian were supposedly spending together. Which makes me wonder if there was originally much more.

When I hear stories about the "lost" lyrics for Cabinessence about "reconnected telephones" I wonder what else Van Dyke came up with at the time, and what the structure of the original songs were that he was writing words for.

They started writing in the summer - July/august 66.  Brian asked Van Dyke at a party at Terry Melcher's which the date is July if you believe VD.  Frank Holmes' recollections place the party a little earlier, probably in May ( he says it was in the spring)  but who am I to tell Brian And VD their memories are off?

Those damn "party" recordings with his stoner friends. Every single one of them, every 10 minutes, you hear Marilyn nagging at Brian. You get the feeling that people are just starting to have a little fun, and then you hear, "BRIAAN WHAT ARE YOU DOING BRIAAAN DID YOU REMEMBER TO DO THE DISHES BRIAAAANN" in that nasty witch-like tone of hers. God IJ SUT ANCN CANT E VNEU FUCING CATHIS NTOTHIS GOD IWANT HER SO BADLYgESY

Would you like to lie down in the air conditioning?

Now, now - I think the topic creator has a point. Brian probably started the Dumb Angel recording session with 10 or so finished songs. Finished, as in he could play out their general structures on the piano. But then, he got in the studio, and some of the ideas didn't work like he envisioned, so he scrapped them or modified them. And all this time he was still coming up with new ideas at a prodigious rate. Take "Fire". That song just came out of nowhere. The "Wind Chimes" tag on the box set evolved out of a studio experiment for "Heroes and Villains".

If you want perfect evidence of the topic creator's theory, look at the "The Elements". Brian had that put on the back of the album sleeves, even though all our evidence seems to suggest that the concept was NEVER close to being finished. 

Plus, you say it's unreasonable to assume Brian changed his working methods massively from Pet Sounds to Smile. Ummm.... didn't he invent his modular approach during that period? Isn't that a big change?

Feels = modules.