The Smiley Smile Message Board

Off the top of my head,

SU Part 2 session
SU sweetening session incorporating horn and string players
The first H&V session, incorporating You Are My Sunshine (taped over, so not really 'missing', but still)
Great Shape vocal session (could be Vega-Tables overdubs, however)
Multis for H&V second verse (?)
Dennis' vocals on Bicycle Rider (low 'What you've done to me'?) and on YAMS aren't on multitracks. Not sure on the latter, but the former doesn't appear on the acapella Bicycle Rider section.
Wonderful lead vocal on multi-track (?)
Vega-tables organ overdub on multitrack.
Cabinessence 1968 vocals?
Good Vibrations vocal sessions.
The other two Jasper Dailey songs  ;D

There's more, I'm sure. But I'd almost rather this stuff was lost than have some collector be the biggest bastard of all time and not sell them to Capitol for the box.

The multitrack(s) for the CIFOTM chorus vocals.

the vocal session for Look, and the book mentions a vocal take for GV early on that had (or so i interpreted them as saying) Dennis singing the lead.  That one caught my eye because I'd heard somewhere that he was supposed to have sung the lead originally, but was unable to when the day came.   This made me think there might be an element of actual truth in that.  Just maybe though.

More than that.  :)

Missing only in the sense of never being actually recorded.  :)

I must be getting my memories confused in my old age  ;D

Does video count?
The "Inside Pop" reels
The extra "Good Vibrations" promo footage
And I recall Carl doing a weird dance to one of the H&V chants, maybe some extra footage from that.

Dom's 2004 mentions a recording of Saturday Morning in the City dating from the SMiLE sessions days… demoed (I assume he means a basic track recorded?) December 3, 1966. Session not noted in Andrew's Sessions & Gigs timeline but then I know Andrew's not really one to speculate if there are facts lying around!

I think there is a lot more stuff missing then we have been led to believe.  I remember the 1st time I heard the "Cantina" mix of H&V at the San Diego BB's convention.  I remember thinking this couldn't have been the final mix.  It had to have parts missing.  Good Lord it was the follow-up to GV.   The first 90 seconds were perfection (even then the Brian/Mike duet followed by barbershop with the backing track is even better) but the rest was disjointed.  Where is the version which truly could have been the follow-up to their biggest single

No less than an authority as a friend Mr. Doe heard a version of With Me Tonight back in the 80's which has still never been released.  Right smack in the middle of H&V session tapes.

And these missing reels--what do you suppose the motivation is of those who have them? Or would these be lying in a landfill somewhere?

If somebody stole them, for real--why no boots? Is it the old "I'm gonna hold onto these til the price goes thru the roof" gambit? Or "I've got these valuable reels, but I need more cocaine--better use 'em for trade!" And then somebody gets them who doesn't appreciate what they are...

I suppose it could always be the "sloppy handling" scenario, based on my own experiences in entertainment--no conspiracy, just stupidity. Vault cleans, faulty labeling, degaussing, etc...

I believe we were told it was merely Brian dicking around with a piano, playing a melody that was basically some part of "Saturday Morning In The City". No basic track or anything, as far as we've been told.

It's possible they were just thrown in the trash or recorded over after a spell. After all, tape was expensive back then and why bother caring about an album that's wasn't going to be released?

Brian himself rerecorded over some tape in his quest for perfectionism - the YAMS Heroes and Villains comes to mind, and it's quite possible he erased certain vocals with intent to redo later, but never got around to it before the project was cancelled.

I don't think there are many stolen and missing reels out there. Most people wouldn't have cared until interest started to bloom in the late 70s - and by that point, most of the aforementioned tapes were missing. What's more likely is acetates containing test mixes being held onto for one reason or another. I'm willing to bet if anyone had anything valuable, it probably would've "revealed" itself by now, what with interest in the Smile sessions being at their peak with the boxset release.

There is a rumour going around that a private collector has three copies of the uncut 1954 A Star Is Born.  Why wouldn't he give it to Warner Brothers?  It may be as simple of wanting something nobody else has.
Truth be told I use to love the buzz I got when I went into an underground record store and bought a Smile or Get Back.  That since of being part of private club when it came to records.  You would play Wonderful or False Barnyard to a novice and look at their face in disbelief.  That world is gone with the internet.

Still, I somehow hope that we haven't heard the last of Smile unreleased material.

Well, yes, but I was being cautious in how I stated this because I didn't want to be jumped on and accused of disseminating false information as the truth.   :P
I would love to hear this though, just to hear what it might have sounded like with Dennis on lead...ah well.  There was also, according to the book, a vocal session for Carl's Tune X that hasn't been located.  I really like this tune and it would be so cool to hear what they might have been doing vocal wise for it.   Any of this missing stuff would be cool to hear of course, though it's likely we never will at this point,.  I tend to agree with others who have stated that it is more likely tapes were lost or erased rather than  stolen or whatever, but who knows.

Correct: during an early 1967 "H&V" session Brian's heard noodling around on the piano and comes up with maybe 60% of the first line to "SMITC".

Right, so there's.....
The first H&V session, incorporating You Are My Sunshine
Great Shape vocal session (
Multis for H&V second verse
Dennis' vocals on Bicycle Rider
Wonderful lead vocal on multi-track
Vega-tables organ overdub on multitrack.
Cabinessence 1968 vocals
Good Vibrations vocal sessions, including Dennis' lead.
The other two Jasper Dailey songs  
CITFOTM multitracks
Look vocal session

And consulting the Sessionography....

20/1/67 'Experimental - Not to be used' Heroes and Villains Session
Western 19/12/66 H&V
2/4/67 H&V Insert
Heroes and Villains vocal sessions for 13th, 22nd, 27th, and the 28th of December in 1966, and 20th and 31st of January, and the 3rd, 24th, and 26th of February in 1967.

I was getting confused by the two sequential sessions on the 23rd of January, 1967 with regards to Surf's Up. Both aren't there, though.

Two Tones Sessions, 15th of March and 11th of April 1967

Potentially, I Don't Know, part one (although there appears to have been no logged session for it)

Is the Barnyard track lost?

Not to nitpick, but why is it assumed Dennis sings the "What have you done to the?"/"What have you done to me?"/whatevz vocal? Sounds more Brian-y to me.

I thought it sounded like Dennis, but then again I thought Carl sang the lead on that, so.....

It was Maureen. She had a rough sounding voice, unfortunately.

You're talking about Brian's sister Maureen, right?  I think she's often the actual singer when it's not otherwise clear.

Yeah his sister Maureen, the singer on all the BBs hits.
( momma always said "stupid is as stupid does" )

That footage is, if I'm not mistaken, a Dennis Wilson home "video" that hasn't got anything to do with H&V.

Is this "out there"? I don't recall hearing it but thought I had virtually everything that was "out there"

It's amazing how technology has advanced where you can easily copy and back things up.  Today, I am backing up my band's multitracks to many different computers and it's so easy.  I can even put them on a memory stick and load them into any machines I want.  Granted, I don't know what it will be like in 40+ years (and I'd be over 80 by then!)and if the hard drives will hold up (I am sure we'll transfer them to the next medium) but in light of hearing how all these BB tapes disappeared is so aggrivating.  How could the studio be so careless?  It seems like The Beatles master tapes are some of the most protected and secured tapes anywhere.  Yet another EMI group from the 60's - The Beach Boys, have lost a lot of tapes. >:(

I'll yield to your expertise but I’m not following.

I get that the fact the session was logged as “Surf’s Up” is no guarantee any recordings were actually for Surf’s Up - for all we know it was I Don’t Know rehearsals perversely logged as “Surf’s Up”. That said shouldn’t we infer that a) since the AFM Contract does not indicate the session was cancelled b) shows the musicians were paid and c) no refunds were issued that a session did in fact occur on 23 Jan 1967 and based on the collection of instruments whatever was recorded is something that doesn’t match any known Smile recording?

If my thinking is correct then how would we know the session wasn’t for Surf’s Up part 2? I get that there is no firm evidence supporting it was for part 2 but if we know a) there was a session that day b) it was logged as Surf’s Up and c) a backing for the 2nd half of the song had yet to be recorded then ‘part 2’ seems as likely as anything else. I guess I’m not seeing how we would know for certain there was no session this date or why the lack of a tape would be firm proof it never happened...

I could be full of sh*t here but I’m not ready to give up hope yet!

For years, folk have had small orgasms about unearthing "SUpt2", and it's even been stated that someone (actually, just one uncorroborated person) has heard it, but the fact is, the sole piece of extremely shaky evidence for any such piece of music even existing, much less being recorded, is an AFM sheet that lists the session as "Surf's Up (1st movement)", causing those prone to doing so to leap (and doubtless bound - ya see what I did there ?) to the assumption that a part 2 MUST exist. There's more persuasive evidence for the existence of Bigfoot.


So... why wasn't it logged as "part 2" or "(2nd movement)" ?  ;D

Careful Andrew, if what you're reporting was being taken by some as a basis for evidence of a Part Two, then surely it also doesn't rule there being parts Three and Four… in fact, maybe as many as 24.

Oooh the excitement!

Not sure why you ask. Understand I haven't argued or assumed it was for "part 2" or "2nd movement" - in fact I went out my way to acknowledge it could've been for anything and there was no proof it had feces to do with Surf's Up.

My only point was to question the assertion part 2 was definitely not recorded. I totally get there is zero proof for it - if I were a betting man I'd bet against it but since - a) there are more sessions logged as "SU" than we have tapes for b) the session in question wasn't cancelled c) the instrumental lineup doesn't match any Smile known material it seems possible the Jan 23 session was "part 2", sure, it's also possible it was a full band recreation of "Ball & Mitt" or the session went so bad they didn't bother starting the tape machine. It just seemed premature to me to strike the gavel and declare it wasn't recorded but, as I said earlier, I'll yield to your expertise here, just not without a fight first  ;D

I believe c-man has said the AFM sheet lists the first session as just "Surf's Up" and the second session later that day with the strings is logged as simply "Part 1".

Asked this in the Surf's Up box set thread but I'll ask it here too:

For BWPS, Brian asked Paul Mertens to add a string section for part 2.  My question: is that string arrangement something Brian remembered from 1967 and told Paul how it should go?  Or was that one of the 2003 improvements and "new things" added to BWPS?

I still ask, though I also understand that there was no actual string section recorded for part 2 in 1967, as Andrew notes above.

Well, even if it was something from 1967, we could hardly imagine that there'd be any similarities since it would be an entirely new arrangment written by a person who wasn't even around the original sessions.

But I would say that it is extremely unlikely bordering on impossible that this was a vintage idea. The 2003 idea is simply using the the Surf's Up LP model, which was forced to use the solo demo version for Part 2 in lieu of no actual studio recording of Part 2 turning up, and they added a string arrangment over top. Of course using a demo for a section quite simply would not have happened on a completed 1967 Smile. Moreover the 2003 string arrangement is just not in keeping with the Smile asethetic. So like I said in that same thread, while there are lots of gorgeous and wonderful versions of Smile (both on the sessions, the demo, the Wild Honey version, and on BWPS) we unfortunately have nothing that sounds like what the song would have sounded like had it been completed in 1967 for a completed Smile album.

I know what you're saying, but you know what? It doesn't really bother me. All of the versions of this song are beautiful, and I'm happy we have all of them.

And yes, it didn't sound exactly like it may have in 1967, but we have to remember that Brian contributed to and/or okayed all of the versions that are out there, including the Surf's Up version, the BWPS version, and The SMiLE Sessions version. And what I care about, is that the song hits me emotionally, and that the artist seems happy with it. And Brian is happy with all of those, so I won't waste time crying over spilt milk. It's kinda how I feel about SMiLE as a whole; sure, I'd really love it was finished the way Brian saw it at one point in 1966 or 1967, but it wasn't, and I'm happy that he's shared all that he has with us.

Not to derail the thread or anything... I noticed the mention of "Ball and Mitt" a few posts ago.  I saw that notation on one of the tape boxes... what exactly is this thing?

Others will have more details but I believe it is a recording of a baseball landing in a catchers mitt.

I'm with you on this.  It's fascinating to speculate what Brian might have done with the arrangement for Part 2 back then and if the tapes magically emerged tomorrow, I'd get down on my knees and thank Murry, but I'm not holding my breath.  Maybe the sessions went badly or they were actually for something else--we'll likely never know.  At this point, I've grown so accustomed to the stripped down "demo" version from '66, I tend to prefer a more minimalist presentation on Surf's Up anyway.  When the song's that great, you don't need a lot of additional window dressing.

Brian and Dennis chucking a ball about in the studio, apparently. I guess it was deemed dispensable in cutting down from 7 discs worth of sessions.

5 seconds of hidden track wouldn't have hurt!  :P

I always thought the arrangement for part 2 would follow the piano. It's always been taken for granted that the second half of the song would have that piano backing, but remember, as far as we know it was just a demo. That piano part could have been played by strings/horns instead. I think you can kind of imagine how it would sound.

Were any more "Elements" tracks recorded apart from "Part One: Fire" ??

I am guessing that the answer is "no".

My guess is it was never even considered -- remember, Linnet said that when whittling down to 5 disc, NO MATERIAL was sacrificed; I'm guessing it was just simply the arrangement of tracks to make 'em fit in as few CDs as possible...

Ball & Mitt would have added nothing to the box -  I'd take one minute of Surf's Up over a thousand Ball & Mitts.

You speak as though, had "Ball & Mitt" been included, something incredibly important as part of the "Surf's Up" session would've been removed.

From the invaluable "Sound on Sound" article about BWPS (http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/Oct04/articles/smile.htm)

"Mertens also helped to score the orchestration for the second part of the song 'Surf's Up'. A 1966 version featuring Brian playing the song alone at the piano has survived, and a more produced instrumental track for the first section exists featuring percussion, basses and horns, but no similarly developed recording of the second section has ever been found. "I asked Brian what he remembered of it," says Darian, "and he said there were some strings, so we worked on that a little bit, and Van Dyke and Paul Mertens did some orchestrating."

That's as good an answer as can be expected - thanks!

I now recall I read this at the time but did not download it, I had remembered the part about the orchestrating but not the rest.  Will keep it now for my reference archive!

Of course, in a few years once the dust has settled and the needs of "Joe Public" are but a distant memory, the failure of The Smile Sessions to take a strict "one thousand Ball and Mitts" approach will come to be seen as a tragic missed opportunity.  Mark my words.