The Smiley Smile Message Board

  At twoscore and five, SMiLE is very much alive.

   So what do you want to hear in a post-box set fanmix of SMiLE?

    Minor mastering errors and unique editing choices aside, the box set has really covered the 60s recordings and presented an excellent 60s edit of the album.

   Ideally, what I want to hear is a "2004 style" fanedit. I'd like to hear material from the 2004 version to flesh out the album, so that no major vocals or passages of music that appear in the 2004 recording are missing from the fanmix. I'm okay with some 60s music and even a vocal here and there being sacrificed to make this work. Hearing Brian Wilson's 2004 voice from time to time doesn't really detract and adds a certain poignancy.

   I was pleased with how the SMiLE sessions boxset used more passages in Vega-tables, My Only Sunshine, etc, so I'd like to hear those still included, but the general flow of the tracks and how they blend should be 2004-era. I might like to hear a finished-ish Good Vibrations with the alternate lyrics a la Purple Chick ... which the boxset nearly does at the end, but not quite.

   For bonus tracks, I'd like to hear other SMiLE-related songs fleshed out as much as possible. You're Welcome is fine as is, and I'm curious what can be done with He Gives Speeches/She's Going Bald and Cool Cool Water. I wonder if the very different versions of these songs can be reconciled in any way, but if not they can at least be included as is, adding to the "recurring themes" of the album proper. After that, I'd like to hear some editing experiments with the various unused passages and recordings from the album tracks ... the unused bits of Heroes and Villains, for example, assembled in a logical-ish way.


     More ambitiously, I'd love to hear some Beach Boys cover band attempt some of the vocal passages in a 60s style. But that's a taller order than a fanedit!

  So what do you want to hear?

I know I am working on two different ones... A 66-67-sessions-only version; trying to stay true to what would have come out (in my opinion of course) in 67. My second mix is going to be a crazy, double album. Trying to add as many pieces as possible with a flow throughout. Kind of a fantasy no-holds-barred version.

I finished an edit yesterday using only material from the box set; I tried to avoid bootlegs to have the highest fidelity possible. It fits into the whole Americana/Cycle of Life/Elements idea that made up BWPS but instead of having three distinct movements, I basically put it in an order where each theme is repeated throughout the mix.

Our Prayer - from the box.

Cool, Cool Water - an edit of the most complete take of version 1 on the box set. Runs 1:12.

Heroes and Villains, Part One - First verse from the cantina mix, chorus/verse lalas from the H&V assembly, cantina section (no woowoowoo)/"children were raised"/"at three score and five"/tape explosion from the cantina mix, "prelude to fade", "chimes intro", "Do a Lot", "Bag of Tricks" (most listenable takes), "pickup to 3rd verse", and "false Barnyard" from the cantina mix. Runs 7:37.

I'm in Great Shape - from the box.

Barnyard - from the box.

My Only Sunshine - from the box.

Cabin Essence - from the box.

Do You Like Worms - from the box, but deleted the "woowoowoo" at the end and replaced it with the original fade-out, like on the Good Vibrations box set. Runs 4:09.

Heroes and Villains, Part Two - "woowoowoo", Part 2 piano rehearsal (edited from most listenable takes), piano theme, "Smiley chorus", "Mission Pak", "Bridge to Indians", "Gee", "Swedish frog", "Hold On", "version 4", "children were raised"/"sonny down snuff"/chorus from the H&V assembly, "part 1 tag", fade remake. Runs 10:12.

Wonderful - from the box.

Child Is Father of the Man - from the box, except appended at the beginning with the "verse" from the first version of Child. Runs 2:26.

Wonderful reprise - version 2 tag (most listenable takes) and version 3 (most listenable takes) spliced together. Runs 3:21.

Good Vibrations - from the box.

Look - from the box minus fly-ins.

Vega-Tables - from the box.

Holidays - from the box minus fly-ins.

Wind Chimes - from the box.

"All Day Dada" - "taped piano strings" Da Da, "Fender Rhodes" Da Da, "All Day" (most listenable takes). Runs 2:57.

Mrs. O'Leary's Cow - from the box, but appended at the beginning with the organ waltz and organ/piano duet waltz. Runs 3:27.

Love To Say Dada - from the box; Prayer reprise deleted and replaced with "Child" reprise from the session take on the box set, then spliced with "second day". Runs 3:47.

Cool, Cool Water reprise - an edit of the most listenable bits from the "version 2" assembly on the box set, including the "Child" refrain. Runs 3:13.

You're Welcome - from the box.

Surf's Up - from the box.

I Wanna Be Around/Friday Night - assembled by matching the track at the end of the session excerpt with the isolated workshop sounds as accurately as possible (this was the only way to avoid the assembly version); workshop noises continue long after the track itself fades and immediately cut to the Baldwin organ overdub from H&V. Runs 2:07.

Not historically accurate at all, but it definitely flows.

Can anyone think of a solution for Love To Say Dada without fly-ins but with the original vocal, other than the GV box set? The quality seems to be pretty inferior on the GV box. Roll your own, not quite.

Something that might be worth the effort (though I doubt it would happen) would be to put lossless versions of the non-fly-in material from the Smile box on the BB Central website.

I think the only thing that can be done is an edit of both versions...Part 1 from the stereo sessions (folded down), Part 2 carefully edited after that. The fly in parts could be replaced with the GV Box Set, the last part can be used from TSS again (which is longer than the GV Box Set version as well).

I've done a stereo mix for the end tag of Holidays, because the down pitched box version is painful to listen to.

I tried to make a mix of as many finished stereo things as possible.

Had to get my hands dirty for "Fire" (even put the crackle back). Same with "Be Around". Tried "Worms" but lack the "wha-halla-loo-lei" to get the job done.

Wanted to make a stereo Wonderful with the backing track and backing vocals but couldn't slow the track down to the right pitch to get it to work.

As much as I am a purist, on this particular set I think I enjoy the stereo versions even more than the disc 1 suite.

I simply took out the 2nd verse (with the fly-ins) and repeated the 1st verse. Works well. So: Part 1/Part 2 (Verse 1)/Part 2 (Verse 1)/Part 2 (End)

Excellent and so unbelievably obvious (doh!) Well, that's why i asked because i figured somebody would have thought of something that i might be overlooking. Thanks!

About Wonderful: Does anyone know what the story is with it being recorded faster and in a different key and then slowed down for the final version? Did Brian write it at the faster speed/original key and then decide to slow it down or what?   

I just started doing this doing too. I just finished my mostly pure version (I mostly can't stand the Purple Chick version that adds in stuff from BWPS but I've got to hand it to them on their version of Cabin Essence, that added on ending sounds like it was always on there and has become my go to version. Next up I'll do another go at the 'what if Smile and Beach Boys late 60's material was edited by Frank Zappa'/ DJ Mic Luv-ish version.

The pure version;

“An intro to the album.... Feel the acid...” (This sounds much better now and was way easier to edit short soundbites from thanks to the box set. I'm glad they didn't try and whitewash the goings on of the Smile sessions.)

Our Prayer (20/20)

Heroes and Villains Suite (I modified a 7 minute version I already edited to include stuff from the box. Now it's 8 and half minutes.)

Great Shape/ Barnyard (I put the two tracks from the box back to back and then faded out Barnyard and used the “Let's hear the animals!” part from Brian's H&V demo with a full ending from the box.)

Old Master Painter (Linett '88 rough mix tweaked in Audacity.)

Child is Father of the Man (Starts with version with the box set but with the vocal intro removed, I then did a bit of creative editing with the cello part and went into the vibes piano and vocal version then used the last section of an older edit I made of the 'match strike percussion' outro where I use a stick click from Hal to switch between takes because it sounds similar to the match strikes, it has a full ending not a fadeout.)

Do You Like Worms (Smile box version with vocal tag at the end removed. The end section of Worms I like to call the 'music box' passage goes right into...)

Wonderful (Good Vibrations box set version in full, then a few bars of an instrumental mix of the jazzy version then I cut to a stereo mix of the same version but with the 'Rock with me Henry' vocals but I bounced the vocals down to just one channel.)

Cabin Essence (Purple Chick version.)

The Wonderful 'Mama mama mama' chant.

Fire (Smile box.)

Workshop (Vigotone)

Vegetables (Good Vibrations box set.)

Holidays/ Wind Chimes (Smile box.)

Water/ I Love to Say Dada (Smile box with the Our Prayer reprise removed.)

Can't Wait Too Long (5 minute version from Smiley Smile/ Wild Honey 2fer CD)

Look (Linett '88 rough mix tweaked in Audacity.)

Good Vibrations (Smile box.)

Surf's Up (A few bars of the original backing track on it's own then into the Smile box version.)

The whole thing comes to exactly an hour.

I am mostly interested in doing 'basic' or historical SMiLE mixes. So, for example, replacing the Holidays fade out with the version on the sessions disc, to avoid the fly ins. Or editing out the fly ins in Barnyard. I made these so far:

  Look - Mono, fly in parts replaced by master take session fold downs, missing 12th street rag replaced.
  Holidays - Like above.
  Barnyard - Like above, using the master take instead of the first fly in part.
  I'm In Great Shape - Stereo and mono mix from the session disc, fading out where the disc 1 mix stops.
  Cabin Essence - Clicks fixed, and 'Over and over' speed corrected.

Still planning to do:

  Gee - Edited from Part 2, without the horn at the end.
  The Old Master Painter (or My Only Sunshine) - First notes replaced by same take on sessions disc.
  Do You Like Worms - Fade replaced by standard, longer fade (from sessions disc or maybe from the GV Box Set).
  I Love To Say Dada - Edit from TSS and GV Box Set.
  Wind Chimes - Intro edited out, maybe a few bars/notes replaced by GV Box Set to avoid overlapping percussion sounds. Whole track after the chorus replaced by the standard fade, either by the GV Box Set fade or from the sessions disc.
  Wind Chimes - Stereo mix, first part from UM 16, chorus from TSS Vinyl, stereo tag from TSS CD 4.
  The Elements: Fire - Mono mix using the UM 17 mono mix. I don't think a stereo version exactly like the box set will be possible, since take 2 and 9 are not available from the same stereo source (take 2 from UM 17, Archaeology and UM 16 I believe, and take 9 only from TSS)
  HAV Part 2 - Stereo mix
  Child Is Father Of The Man - Mono edit like the instrumental mono mix from '66, or like the two rough mixes from that time.

I may make a CD collecting all these mixes..if anyone's intrested in the meantime, send a PM and I'll send you a download link.

Paul
  

Just made a "Cabin Essence" stereo mix using the stereo takes and the stereo vocals (which match perfectly, except for the doing-doings on the first verse. I am assuming the vocals are from the second verse).

So far:
Cycle Of Life Suite (stereo instrumental)
Old Master Painter / My Only Sunshine (mono, clean intro using the session take)
Mrs. O'Learys Cow (mono, no fly-ins)
Love To Say Dada (mono, no fly-ins)
Child Is Father Of The Man (mono, verse/chorus/verse/chorus/bridge/chorus)

Working on:
Surf's Up (both stereo and mono, no fly-ins, just original Smile sessions)

Am i missing something?...In DYLW, the first bicycle rider chorus ends with a chord that rings out...where is that chord on the sessions? I'm trying to extend the long rest between the first chorus and the second verse but i need that chord isolated, though i can't seem to find it anywhere.

I guess I'm going to be boring and make a historically correct mix using the mono TSS mixes of the 12 songs from the original cover listing. Makes a nice realistic for 1967 vinyl 38 minute long mix.

I am making now the mother-of-all-fan-mixes, which is actually not a fanmix but a complete fanmixers toolkit.
I am assembling a collection of all known Smile fragments/songs/test mixes (only master takes in the most complete form and best quality available), neatly indexed and labelled, in mono and stereo (wherever possible).
I hope to find a way to share it, as it's mostly officially released material (on the box set).
See me in about two weeks (if I survive)  :)

Count me in!

Oh I am doing that too. It'll be in the can once I get my "Surf's Up" mono finished.

If you want a taste of my project, I can PM you my stereo Barnyard which sound quite nice IMHO.

Yeah, let me know when that is finished. I had started doing this sometime ago in preparation for The Smile Sessions!

(http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b19/PaulQ/BeachBoys/269700_2051874268888_1605469567_2015156_3452872_n.jpg)

Wow, your list looks like great, a really well done job! But how wierd is that now most of those bootlegs became redundant at once... It's a whole new world in SMiLE land!

Oh yeah, this job definitely needs to be redone in a major way.

Here's mine, only very minor changes:

Our Prayer - same
Gee - same
Heroes And Villains -same
Do You Like Worms (Roll Plymouth Rock) -same
Barnyard -same
My Only Sunshine (The Old Master Painter / You Are My Sunshine) -same
Cabin Essence -same
Wonderful -same
Look (Song For Children) -same
Child Is Father Of The Man - intro portion removed, it feels tacked-on to me (first 24 secs)
Surf’s Up -same

I’m In Great Shape - instrumental intro cut off (start at 6 second mark with vocal), just think it doesn't fit in the "Americana" section in the TSS version
In Wanna Be Around/Workshop - wanted to just cut this but the transition between Shape/Vega doesn't flow otherwise
Vega-Tables -same
Holidays -same
Wind Chimes -same
The Elements: Fire (Mrs. O’Leary’s Cow) -same
Love To Say Dada -same
Good Vibrations -same

He Gives Speeches - "bonus track" after a pause, a'la the Sgt. Pepper or "Who Sell Out" run out grooves (I realize it doesn't loop, but it's repetitive and a bit of an earworm for me so I didn't want to leave it out, the backing vocals towards the end sell it to me as a "reprise"

That's my plan at some point as well, using a lot of the edits people have already mentioned here:

--  "Heroes" Part 1
--  Replace "woo-woo"s at the end of Worms with the fade from the GV box
--  No "Look" or "Holidays," as much as I dig them
--  Edit "Child" to match Brian's '66 mono mix sequence (definitely using the new chorus though)

It'll be a few months before I can start, most likely, but the box has certainly made the job a hell of a lot easier.

I'm putting the hard edits and dynamics--two key elements that are absent on this release--back in Smile.

i managed to split the wonderful version 2 into seperate parts, and then...wait for it because some of you are gonna hate this.....i managed to autotune just the carl vocal. sorry, it was soooo bad that i could barely listen to what is an interesting take on the song. i then remixed it back together and sounds awesome! i love it.

i've also done a sync with CIFTM. Took the opening from the cd and synched the best take of the first verse backing from the box version 1. kept with the plan of chorus first and starts better for me. i love that too.

oh, i also edited the first verse of DYLW with bicycle rider being sung. I know it's supposed to be ribbon of concrete but i prefer a lead vocal instead of just backing vocals there. at least the melody is exact to what it would've been.

i'm gonna spend some time, thought and effort on this now we have amazing source material. i want to be able to give someone i know the definitive version of everything i love about smile music to try and convert them.

No 2004-inclusive mixes?

It's a shame that these are usually done by lesser talents. Done properly we'd have a much more complete piece.

i like all of em from the box :) but the only problem i have that will never be "fixed" is that there are no vocals (verses or choruses) on look,child is the father of the man,holiday,love to say dada :/

*listens to Smiley Smile*

If anyone has made a decent stereo mix of the album, why not send a PM my way  ;D

Today I'm going to try to synch the Surf's UP 67 to the original backing track. There's a lot of chance it'll be a mess, but if I succeed there's also a lot of chance it'll sound incredible.

i wasn't gonna do this but seeing this post inspired me. I've just isolated the lead vocal from barnyard on BWPS and then synched it to the barnyard master take. it's now the best version of barnyard i've ever heard! If ONLY they'd included the beach boys backing version i could have pretty much done it perfectly with everything we've heard! Darn! I'm gonna try and do a 2004/67 following BWPS as best i can as well as a 67 only version that has all the extras i'll put in myself.

if people are interested, i'll post it when done but not sure on any rules etc here.

In fact...i've now just done DYLW. Again isolated the vocals from BWPS on the verses and synched to the disc 1 mono version. I'd already re-cut the first "chorus" to be "bicycle rider, just see what you've done" as i want as many original vocals as possible. But without wanting to sound like an idiot, i'm already loving these versions i've done and will definitely carry on to complete this project the best can.

Please let Me know if you're interested in what i'm doing?

I probably might be!

I'm working on a stereo Child as I am writing.

First chorus is stereo vocals over the stereo-to-mono backing Track 17 CD3 (version 2)
Second chorus is mono vocals from Disc 1 over stereo backing track 16 CD3 (version 1)

We'll see. For now the first chorus sounds very good.

Okay. I'm getting a little excited now! I've just done look and it sounds absolutely amazing to my ears. I'm very happy with the results and here's hoping i can extract the vocals only as well on all the other tracks. Look took quite a bit of work but i'm speeding through. Can anyone point me in the direction of the best version of mixing the new vocals with the old backings out there please, or name it? I'd like to do a comparison because i think Mr Linnett would be proud of what i've done already.

...and sorry, i'm new here, don't mean to be coming across like a show off. Just super psyched by the results...

I've tried to synch the 2nd chorus with new vocals on both versions, they both sound super good (version 1 gave me a little bit of hard time though, because it's much faster but I got though), I've cleaned/eq'd/compressed these new vocals to make them sound a little less distorted.

If anyone want to hear either or both versions (and my recreation of the Whispering Winds fade in the right key), feel free to pm. We're gonna get though this all together!

Ditto.  It's the only thing to put on after the box.  I put my vinyl Smiley in my box set, too.

Here's my sync of Love To Say Dada / In Blue Hawaii

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R0ulMHBzd94

Amazing!

Bravo, Bravo

Thanks lads!

Til now I had: 1st verse stereo (remastered from acetate) 2nd verse mono (remastered from the almighty disc 1)

I've just tried to mix them together ("new" vocals center, "old" vocals hard panned), I must say that I'm close to having an eargasm

my afternoon of synching 2004 BWPS with the new tracks is at an end....

i've managed to get barnyard, DYLW, look, holiday, dada and CIFTM done. i'm pretty darn pleased with them so let me know if you'd like a listen. i've basically only used the vocals i could get that don't end up sounding like its obviously just the 2004 version pasted over it. as with any music made, i'll probably come back to them tomorrow and hear adjustments to be done but these versions may well end up being the ones i listen to now...

Another thing I did today: a re-edit of the Child Is Father Of The Man CD 1 mono mix. The bridge used in that mix was edited, I used the complete version from the sessions disc (folded down to mono). The second chorus seemed to start a bit early, so I used the verse from the sessions (folded down to mono), made it last a little bit longer before the 2nd chorus vocals start.

Just noticed that CIFOTM is in the same key as Surf's Up 67...now that gave me the wildest idea

 :serenade

Great Stuff!

Adam, I'd love to hear your 2004 version! The best 2004/1960s mix is what I want to be listening to ....


Bruiteur did a version of Barnyard cleaning up the [60s] lead vocal [removing the piano from it] which really worked.

A little more out there now ... wondering if Little Pad and Cool Cool Water could be incorporated ... that is, making Love to Say Da Da, In Blue Hawaii, and Cool Cool Water one long track.

Oh wow!  And I was rushing to be the first to use the boxset!  :lol:

I posted my reconstruction in it's own thread, but might as well mention it here too.  My SMiLE is complete stereo and uses 95% all SMiLE Sessions boxset as sources... 

SIDE A
1. Our Prayer
Synch of new boxset version and 20/20 version (I believe Mok did this already).  But mine pulls the stereo 20/20 version in the background of the mono boxset version, this making the 20/20 version the stereophonic reverb of the new one! 

2. Heroes and Villains (pt 1)
A recreation of the 3-minute Cantina version of H&V, using the new stereo bits from the boxset.  The verses are unfortunately in mono, but as soon as it hits "In the cantina..." it's stereo, up until "Three score five...".  Also, used the stereo Whistling Bridge, but faded the tape distortion from the mono mix in because, well, you gotta have that! 

3. Heroes and Villains (pt 2)
Recreation of the theoretical b-side, assembling the stereo bits, essentially the first 3 minutes of H&V Sections but with the full Swedish Frog.  Probably the easiest to do! 

4. Do You like Worms?
All of the stereo backing tracks form the box, synched up with the isolated vocal parts...  The "Kini waka poolah" part is the mono mix, with the isolated backing vocals synched up to create a stereo picture.

5. Wonderful
The new remaster of the mono mix with the isolated backing vocals synched up to create a stereo picture.  That's the best that can be done...  :(

6. Look
From the boxset!  Hard edit from Wonderful, with the ascending bassline fixed to play in time with the first notes of Look.  Ending much like BWPS, chopping off the last 40 seconds or so and right into...

7. Child is Father of the Man
A synch of the stereo backing tracks from the boxset and the mono mix from the boxset, to create a stereo picture.  Oh look, the last two cello/bass notes are the SAME first two cello notes of...


8. Old Master Painter/You Were My Sunshine
Starts overlayed with the last bass/cello note of Child, as the ending perfectly matches with the beginning of OMP!  Again stereo backing track is synched with the mono mix to create a stereo picture. 

9. Cabin Essence
20/20 version.  1989 remaster is better than the GV box master.  :p

SIDE B
10. Good Vibrations
A new stereo mix I made...  mono and stereo backing tracks synched up...  uses the verses from the early version with the Asher lyrics, but then switches back to the common chorus.  Also includes the full "hum dee dou" middle part.  4 minutes...   :o

11. I'm In Great Shape/I Wanna Be Around/Workshop
I rather liked the BWPS version, I feel it's one of the few things that seemed like they recreated what was originally intended in the song!  Starts off with a synch of the piano/vocal demo and the last take of the stereo backing track, hard edit to IWBA/Workshop with the workshop sounds starting left but slowly moving right, so those last 3 hits can become...

12. Vege-Tables
...The percussion on the right channel of Vege-Tables!  Although I kinda disagree how he designed this Vege-Tables (Ryan Guidrey's mix was THE mix if you ask me!) but He still did a fine job, so this is just the stereo mix from the 2LP

13. Wind Chimes
Just used the stereo mix from the 2LP again.  Linnett mixed it perfectly!

14.  The Elements: Fire
Stereo Fire intro with the channels swapped and edited into Mrs O'Leary's Cow, to that the whistles blend into the flutes (now in the right channel).  After three measures, crossfade into the ending edit (to be the fourth!)

15.  The Elements: Water
Starts off with the Unsurpassed Masters 16 Water Chant (best soundquality) and goes into a reconstruction of I Love To Say Dada utilizing the stereo backing track sessions from the boxset...  But instead of using the uninspired backing vocals in the Linnett versions, I instead synched up bits and pieces of the Underwater Chant from the boxset in the little pauses...  Also I took the flute and percussion flourishes from the alternate stereo tracking sessions of I Love To Say Dada.  The end result I think is a much more interesting track, an entirely different beast!  :D

16. Surf's Up
The stereo mix from the 2LP.  Just amazing.  I've seen people complain about it, but I think Linnett did a wonderful job! 

There it is.  You can dl mp3s or flacs of it in it's own thread.  :)

Nicely done!

I knew this was coming.   5000 different versions of smile.  It was inevitable.  And not a bad thing.  Maybe the beginning of something new in the world of music; bands release modular albums.   Music that was intentionaly recorded to sequence according to the listners creative inclinations.  I've been messing around with this for years on BB mixes but now it seems it could actually become a mainstream band/fan interactive practice in the recording industry.  Give the listner choices in how song to song transitions are recorded; alternative musical chord changes and sequences that would "fit" in terms of key and instrumentation.  Seems perfectly in tune with the times.  Brian WAY ahead of the curve?

Well, this isn't new with us in particular, but having great quality material to work with is... I'm going to wait for a few until someone makes the best mix possible  *coughcough* alternate BWPS CIFOTM, and Swedish Frog under Cantina and such...

...(wishing for a decent computer with audio programs....) Speaking of, what would be the best kind of computer and program for these kind of purposes, praytell?

I too would like to know how to make my computer do this

 I'd say a Mac with Protools.

  I'm a filmmaker/video editor, so I'd just use Final Cut Pro and Audacity, but you can get more accuracy with ProTools.

i transferred TSS ointo real analog and am cutting tape as i speak

I used SONAR, which is Cakewalk's version of ProTools. 

Honestly, Audacity is the way to go if you want to actually work with the constraints Brian had. About all you can do is Audacity is cut, copy, paste, fade in/out, add reverb, and stuff like that.

True, although if you're going legit, it's also pretty expensive. Audacity works fine; I haven't used any other paid tools on PC except Reaper ($60), but I think it's pretty good.

GarageBand is the best value if you're on a Mac, though. The most recent version can even do non-destructive tempo changes, which is a godsend for fly-ins and sync-ups. Logic's even better, but again, you have to spend a couple hundred bucks.


Except for, you know, being able to adjust time and pitch seamlessly, with an unlimited number of tracks...  ;)

Audacity is a flaming pile of sh*t. God help those who choose to (or have to) use it.

I've used Pro Tools, Logic, Reason, Live, Cubase, Cakewalk, and a few others. But i happily use Garageband by choice. I've thought about writing a manifesto.

I have a question for you audio wizards in this thread. Is it in any way possible to "fly in" at least the first part of the vintage "Rock Rock Roll" vocals from Worms as heard on the backing vocals montage and lay it on to the disc 1 Holidays chorus in the same way as BWPS and make it work? You'd have to change the key and the speed of the vocs, etc, but I just wondered if it was possible or if anyone might take a shot at it. That seems like the only obvious "fly in" that Mark either didn't try or couldn't get to work. Any thoughts? Takers?

JMZ did a pretty good job of it.

He used the Beach Boys vocals, not the 2004 ones? Interesting. It'd be great if someone could do it with the higher quality tracks we have to work with now.

You could, although to adjust the vocals without changing the backing track, you would need to use a very good pitch-shifting effect (i.e., one that doesn't change the formants), or they would probably sound unnatural.

It's not the same as the 04 version, but he still made it work. While I'm generally not into this sort of trickery (sans stuff like "Fire" where the two are in the same key and just fit together), I've yet to hear anyone do as good a job with vocal fly-ins like this.

We have isolated Plymouth Rock vocals now though, in the backing vocals montage. So they can be perfected in isolation and then laid atop the Holidays chorus. I'd love to hear this, but it is beyond my technical skill; when I attempted this, I made the BBs sound either like a slowed down record or like chipmunks...  But the Rock, Rock, Roll portion could theoretically work since it's all the same note.

.

Oh, you mean like how they sound on Look, the Holidays tag and Dada on the official release? Oh, the irony that, in attempting to fill in the blanks with more vocals, the flown-in (pitch shifted) vocals don't even sound like the Beach Boys but instead like a robot that has been programmed to sounds like them. But hey, it's more "complete" now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjONQNUU8Fg

Are you serious? That's great. I really wanna do that sometime in the future.

Here's a mono mix of CIFOTM, exactly like the instrumental mono from '66:

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=RLUD0ZD1

The chorus is from the CD 1 mono mix, the verse from the sessions (it was crossfaded/edited with the 2nd chorus on disc 1, so I coulnd't replicate a good edit into the 1st chorus), and the bridge from the sessions (the CD 1 mono mix was edited). The instrumental mono mix uses onyl half the chorus the last time, so I did that as well, using a small fade in because that sounded much better than a hard edit.

Enjoy, and if you think iI could improve some things, please tell me!

It could take years for me to learn enough about editing and mixing even if I had the software.  I am looking forward to hearing some of the sure to be circulating personal mixes of SMiLE.  Feel free to share.

I would be happy for now to be able to cut out the pre music studio chat that begins most of the takes on discs 3-5.  Then I could save those and just sequence a playlist of my own choosing.  The fly in and matching up of tempo and speed etc seems too much for me to take on. 

Anyone know how to simply edit off chat from the beginning or end of a trak?

Goldwave is a favorite of mine for a simple wav-editor. 

I'm using Audacity for OOPSing, and Cubase for copying/pasting and editing in general

I actually put together a mix of the 2011 Linett Holidays with the JMZ Plymouth Rock vocals "flown in" to the second chorus. It doesn't sound too bad. Please Make me share it if you'd like to hear it.

Really nice work Paul - I'd never actually heard the '66 mono edit, but this flows really well.  It finally feels like a complete song and not just random bits tied together by the chorus. 

What was the 66 mono edit?  I'm confuzzled as well  ???

Hi Chris Brown, thanks for the nice words. JohnMill, on Secret Smile and Archaeology (lesser quality) there is an instrumental edit with this song structure. Sounds really nice in my opinion, and it is a vintage Brian Wilson mono mix.

Does anyone know if there is a better quality stereo version of CIFOTM than the one on Alternate BWPS?

Almost finished my Child mix with Can't Wait Too Long fly in's (blasphemy?) and segued into Surf's up 67

  I've heard what Adam78 is working on, which adds some isolated 2004 Brian vocals to the tracks. Some get a little buried, probably due to not being clean enough in the isolated versions.

   Which begs the question of what the best ways are to get isolated 2004 vocals.

Awesome idea!

Two other mixes for my Basic Smile collection. Do You Like Worms - Like the CD 1 mix I only used the first part of the Bicycle Rider fade, but I used the sessions disc for the fade to avoid the earlier fade (of the 1st part of the fade). So I also didn't use the Cantina vocals at the end.

CIFOTM - Like CD 1 mono mix, but: without the piano part intro, since it was recorded months after the rest of track; I used the unedited bridge from the sessions disc (fold down); I used the verse from the sessions disc (it was edited and slightly crossfaded with the 2nd chorus on the CD 1 mono mix) and the first chorus for consistent sound and sound quality (but I still really like those new vocals from the 2nd chorus!). I edited the last note of the track from the 2nd chorus to the last chorus in my new mix (a copy of the first chorus).
So actually, a basic edit with all the parts in the same order as the CD 1 mono mix, but without one section and some other sources.

The link for CIFOTM: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=B5R4LWK1 (the link doesn't work for me now, I hope it will work soon)
I'll upload DYWL to megaupload tomorrow.

Enjoy,
Paul

I was trying to edit a basic stereo Fire, but I noticed that unfortunately take 2 (one of the three used takes, along with 9 and 18) was not included with the Fire sessions track on the box. It is included on bootlegs but take 9 wasn't...so the only thing that could be done was to make an edit of take 1 and take 9 and 18. This is the closest we can get to a complete stereo The Elements: Fire. If anyone's interested, PM me and I will send you a download link.

I used the structure of the '66 mono mix, not the new one. The new one includes one more verse before take 9 starts.

Another track: Wind Chimes, basic stereo version. I downloaded a lossless vinyl rip (I can't transfer the vinyl to my computer) and after the chorus I used the stereo tag from the sessions disc, faded out at the end. If you're interested to hear it, PM me. Somewhere in the next few days I'll make one download of all the tracks I mixed untill now.

OK, I'm ready to collect all the mixes I've made into one Basic Smile cd, but I need some small advice. Do you think I should insert 2 seconds (or something like that) of silence after each song in Audacity? I'm not presenting the tracks in a sort of album way (I might do that with some other projects!) but maybe maybe in chronological order. I could insert the 2 s. silence, to not let some tracks start right after the fade out of the previous track. But maybe some people might want to use some of the mixes in a fan mix and than they have to delete the 2 s silence after each track because they want to start the next track right after the other!

OK, I just rearranged the order of the tracks to what I feel provides a better flow- I do not have any of the editing software needed to breakdown individual parts and what-not. I have ideas in my head for when the time comes to make a great mix in that vein, but for now, this is the best I can do-

1. Our Prayer (20/20 stereo)

(skip gee- don't like it as a track, and I feel it is a turn off for anyone who have heard the hype and are listening to SMiLE for the first time. After a spiritual invocation, ready, wait, we get, Gee!!) No, let's just cut right to the chase and into...

2. H&V (Box Set stereo)

3. Cabinessence (20/20 stereo)... The Listener is now hooked, and it continues the Western theme. Besides, isn't the third track to any album supposed to be the best?!

4. IIGS (Box Set)

5. Barnyard (Box Set)

6. TOMS/YAMS/BS (Box Set)... Flows better into the Boy-Girl part of the album than Cabinessence.

7. CWTL (a capella form Hawthorne)

8. Wonderful (Box Set)

9. Look (Box Set)

9. CIFOTM (Box Set)

10. Surf's Up (Box Set)

Side 2

1. Vega-Tables (Box Set stereo)... Great way to start off side 2 of any record.

2. DYLW (Box Set)... would only take out the voices at the end and replace it with the BR theme fade out.

3. Holidays (Booted version)... I have no idea where this version came from but it sounds way better than the mono box version. It is in stereo sans voices at the end. I actually dig the voices but do not have a version with them in a clarity I like.

4. Wind Chimes (Box set stereo)

5. Fire (Box Set )

6. IWBA/ Workshop (Box Set)... I wasn't sure where to put his song other than anywhere's except after Surf's Up. So I did what others have done and put it after the Great Fire- Wow...I should've done this a long time ago. Also it segues perfectly into Fall Breaks- Give it a shot!

7. Fall Breaks (Smiley Smile)... I know it's been discussed ad infinitum, but I put it in my mix because it sounds "earthy" to me.  :p

8. ILTSDD (Box Set)

9. GV (Box Set)

10. You're Welcome (Box Set stereo)

.....bonus

1. Surf's Up (67 vox)

2. With Me Tonight (Smiley Smile)

Where or when can we hear these!?

This is exactly what I was hoping someone would do!  :)

Would anyone be interested in a version of my stereo SMiLE, but in the BWPS 2004 sequencing?  Someone I think requested that... 

Moi, si vous plait.

Uuuuuuuuuuuuhhhh OK

http://www.mediafire.com/?ln795f8mq41b4tg

There's my stereo mix rearranged and put back together again as the sequence from BWPS.  Not may favorite, but there's some really cool ideas of how it should go together.  Includes artwork and notes. 

I'm still working on my own disc of Smile Basic Mixes, but in the meantime I was wondering if someone already made a 'basic' Surf's Up from the new stereo version  of the '66 demo with the backing track? So basically like the stereo vinyl version but than without the bygones and some other backing vocals. (And possibly without the CIFOTM coda, but there can be a version with and one without that part)

I'll try to mix a version like this, but I'm not very experienced in this sort of synching in Audacity, so other people will do a better job undoubtedly.

You mean the newly found alternate version or the usual piano/vocal demo?  That new one wouldn't work at all, the tempo and rhythm is way off.  

But if you mean the piano/vocal demo and the instrumental tracks, yeah I could make you one.   oh my god so much work, just use the one I made a few years ago on the Authentic Mix  :p

That would be absolutely ace. The Annie Wallace mix is my all-time favourite - using the newly available material, almost bringing that mix up to date, would be great. Much as I dig the new version, you can't beat the Wallace mix for its sync.

Another mix/edit I did is The Elements: Fire, taken from UM 17, edited and amplified. I think this is how the track would have sounded in 1966/67 and might be the finished mix for the track (it was edited and overdubbed). I edited out the count in, amplified the track by a few decibels, and I think this might be my new favourite The Elements: Fire mix!

Fantastic !

i'm starting to get excited about the various fanmixes that some of you very talented folks are creating.  Such work is totally appropriate for a work like SMiLE, because on such a work, the composer/author must at some point abandon valid alternative versions and settle on a "finished" product.  Unfortunately, some of the abandoned work or parts are going to be outstanding alternatives that some will find to be superior to the "finished" product.

Sometime after BWPS, I downloaded a fanmix from someone calling himself "Grooveblaster".  There were three files, one for each movement.  I found myself listening to this fanmix as much or more than BWPS, because I liked hearing the BB vocals, which were mixed in where possible.  The content of Grooveblaster's piece mirrored BWPS with regard to song sequence and length.  Does Grooveblaster post here?   His work is a great example for me with regard to how much a fanmix can be enjoyed by fellow fans.

I don't have the capability to make fanmixes.  I certainly enjoy the work of those who do.  I encourage you in your work, fanmixers.

Thanks!

Has anyone heard the recent audio interview with Linnett?  He pretty much straight out states that they knew people were still not going to accept their construction of SMiLE on disc 1, so they intentionally left enough material on that and the other discs so that we all can continue to make our own SMiLE mixes. 

Well Linett is smart enough to realize that there is a portion of the fanbase that doesn't consider BWPS to equal The Beach Boys: SMiLE. 

Is the maker of this great Truck Drivin' Man isolation (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dje0M5b_9M) a member of this board? I sure would love to have a lossless version, as I'm working on a alternate stereo Cabin Essence right now and I want to highlight this part. Any help is appreciated!

Right, the "roll your own" credo, though he kind of undercuts that when he says something like "You could paint a mustache on the Mona Lisa..."  And they didn't always make it easy to do with the cross fades on Disc 1 or by not always breaking out the clean master take (or in some cases not including them at all, though I know that some have gone missing over the years).

FWIW, though I might quibble with this or that decision, I do accept disc one as "the official version" and think it's pretty damn successful for what it is.  But is it my own ideal SMiLE?  No, I'm still workin' on that one. . .

Does anyone know if it is in any way possible to isolate the clarinet line in the chorus of "Song for Children" aka Look (the 2004 recording)? Can it be OOPsed or something?

It's in the center of the signal, I don't know. Try to OOPs it in Audacity (import track, click on the upper corner on the left of the track, click "split stereo track", then click on the same corner of each track, click "mono", so that you have 2 mono tracks instead of 1 stereo. then choose one of the tracks -not both-, go to "effects > invert)

I'd sure like to hear it if you do.  :3d

I'm still trying to figure out how an "official release" of the Beach Boys contains altered vocals that hardly even resemble the Beach Boys. I really think that in 5-7 years a lot of people, including the compilers, are going to have regrets about many of the decisions that went into this project--the sort of things that i think might have seemed like a good idea in the short term, with disregard to the long term effects. I think time will prove that a straightforward raw sessions (the very thing that Linett and Boyd said would have been the undesirable alternative if there was no BWPS) would have been the best approach. I think, packaging aside (and that's a HUGE aside because the packaging is of the highest quality), history is going to look at this set as a bit of a blunder and a great missed opportunity. In a few years, Joe Public, and the need to meet the demands/expectations of that market, won't matter in the least. The public has a way of "catching up" with things that went over people's heads initially. People would have eventually come around and caught on to a raw sessions sort of box set (or abridged version) without the aid of the disc 1 estimation. And integrity and accuracy would have still been intact. Mark my words.

Thanks Bleachboy, would you mind trying that in audacity to see if it works?

I would but I don't have the album

Ok, so I set out to make two Smile fanmixes. One is the historical what-if-Smile-was-released-in-1967 mix. It is a very basic mix, in mono, and follows the 12 to 14 individual tracks that don't lead into one another. I am also avoiding any post-June '67 recordings done. So obviously no fly-ins and also no Cabin Essence lead vocals. Anyways, that is that one. My second fanmix is what I am calling my Y.G.F.A.A.Y.? mix. It is a no holds barred mix with no rules. I am using a lot of boot sources and using as much stereo as possible. Echo and panning are in wide use!!

However, while making the YGFAAY? mix I would finish with a certain section and leave it alone for a day or two. When I came back to it I realized that I was just following the 2004 structure and maybe adding a bit of my own flourish but still it was all 2004. Then I got to thinking. I am sure this is what happened with the assembled version we have on disc 1. While Mark Linnet and Alan Boyd set out to recreate the 2004 structure as much as possible, their own personality peeked through. This is why I believe some tracks have their blends and some don't. It was a personal choice by either Mr. Linnet or Mr. Boyd.

So, in order to get my YGFAAY? mix under way I had to do what subconsciously I was doing anyway -- make a 2004 reconstruction mix. So, here it is. A mix that follows the 2004 structure as much as possible, even more so than the assembled version from disc 1. I've only used The Smile Session sources and the biggest divergence is "I'm in Great Shape". Other than that it is just editing to make it flow and follow much more closely to BWPS. It is mp3 quality for now.

https://rapidshare.com/files/1378469503/Smile__P.J._s_2004_Reconstruction_Mix_.rar

(I hope this link works.  :-\ )

I like your approach, P.J.  I was thinking of doing something similar:  More of a classic, natural 12 track take on the first disc, no fly ins or later sessions (apart from Cabinessence!  The '68 version is absolutely part of the canon for me); maybe you could tack on some of the additional stuff at the end as bonus tracks.  Then I would do more of a BWPS/TSS approximation-style take, except I still think the album needs to end with Surf's Up one way or another (GV works well there in concert, but SU is the ultimate closing statement for SMiLE.).  I'll be curious to hear which version works better for me, but then there are so many viable configurations with this material . . .  :smokin

I'm in heaven with all the fan mixes

+1

Alright the link worked!! It was my second time sharing through RapidShare.

Upon further hearing of my mix the only think I dislike is the "Vega-Tables" (ballad insert) section. I should have used the Smiley Smiley/Wild Honey version to get ride of the whistle echo at the beginning. But I was only using The Smile Sessions material.

Finally will get a chance to listen to these tomorrow

Brian Wilson and the Beach Boys - SMiLE
The 3971 Edit
by Tygerbug

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=UY3IFI00
314.82 MB FLAC

This edit attempts to combine the 1967 (ish) and 2004 recordings of Brian Wilson's SMiLE into one complete piece.

1967 + 2004 = 3971.

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=AW3DV41D
143.03 MB MP3 version

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=2DCIUWUM
583.91 MB WAV version

Or here, as one long single track in FLAC.
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=HZXF6L6M
File description: Beach Boys/ Brian Wilson SMiLE 3971 Edit - as one track in FLAC
File size: 314.79 MB

Do you like both the original Beach Boys SMiLE recordings and Brian's 2004 performance? Do you often find yourself, when listening to one of them, wishing you were listening to the other, just to hear a bit of music or lyric you're missing?

The Beach Boys recordings have a quality that the 2004 performance can't touch. However, the 2004 album contains lyrics and music that don't exist in any 60s form, and shapes the SMiLE album into a surprisingly coherent whole.

A professional release couldn't merge the two; that's musical sacrilege.

But for the purposes of this edit, that's exactly what I've done - switch back and forth from 60s recordings to 2004 ones within the same track, so that nearly every piece of music or lyric you might want to hear is there.

And it's nearly all in stereo!

I tried something very unusual with the "Water" section - Recorded as I Love to Say Da Da, Cool Cool Water, and In Blue Hawaii. I extended this section to quite a length, deciding to use all three songs, plus the unrelated song "Little Pad" from the Smiley Smile album. So this is essentially In Blue Hawaii from the 2004 album, with sections of Cool Cool Water and Little Pad interspersed.

If you think that's dumb, the extensions are their own track and can be removed to leave just In Blue Hawaii.

Also, the bonus track "He Gives Speeches" is now combined with Smiley Smile's "She's Goin' Bald" as one track.

Apart from that, all of the material is from the 2011 Smile sessions boxset or the 2004 Brian Wilson Smile album.

However, I used other people's fanedits for many of the tracks. Soniclovenoize's stereo version of SMiLE was used for many of the 60s tracks, notably his version of Good Vibrations with the original lyrics.

Bruiteur's versions of Barnyard and I'm in Great Shape were used, which cleans up the piano demos for a much clearer vocal - although Barnyard is the stereo take on that by another fan. I also used Bruiteur's "Wonderful," which marries the 60s vocal to the 2004 instruments.

I believe I used adam78's mono edits in places as well. Not sure though, as I tried to avoid mono.

"You're Welcome," "He Gives Speeches" and a few later Beach Boys tracks are thrown on as bonuses.

Enjoy!

Brian Wilson and the Beach Boys - SMiLE
The 3971 Edit
by Tygerbug

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=UY3IFI00
314.82 MB FLAC


http://www.megaupload.com/?d=AW3DV41D
143.03 MB MP3 version

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=2DCIUWUM
583.91 MB WAV version

Or here, as one long single track in FLAC.
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=HZXF6L6M
File description: Beach Boys/ Brian Wilson SMiLE 3971 Edit - as one track in FLAC
File size: 314.79 MB

My stereo Great Shape with restored echo tape frenzy is now complete, no more synch issues as far as I am concerned

Can anybody give me a link to Bruiteur's clean Barnyard?

 ;)

Bruiteur has posted his edits elsewhere on this board, so it's probably fine to post these links to Barnyard, Great Shape and Wonderful.

http://oron.com/qcxlb2ls4ib7
http://oron.com/m6whllytlpll
http://oron.com/kx8j21oko13j

I'm now updated my own edit with his Great Shape.


Brian Wilson and the Beach Boys - SMiLE
The 3971 Edit
by Tygerbug

http://www.megaupload.com/?d=UY3IFI00
314.82 MB FLAC

I isolated the clarinet as best I could from BWPS and put it on Look.
Crossfaded Wonderful and Look so they are one track.
Removed the fade on Look so it flows right into Child.
Put Child in BWPS order and crossfaded it with SU.

sounds great and i prefer these 4 songs as one flowing movement a la BWPS
I also like the alternate version of Child before Wonderful to kick off the movement with the "mission pak" snippet right before Wonderful

pm me if you'd like to hear these. my youtubes are getting pulled  :-\

Yeah....

None of these downloads work. They won't open up correctly once they've been unzipped.

EDIT: Did a little messing around and got them to work.

Overall, commendable job. It's a littler rough in spots, particularly in the Water section; it was a little disjointed with all the back and forth between the Blue Hawaii and "Cool, Cool Water" sections, but an admirable attempt nonetheless.

Where did Bruiteur upload this Wonderful track and what actually is it. I cannot get that oron.com site to ever let me download anything.

Wonderful is Brian's 66ish vocals, with the backing track from the 2004 version instead.

Ah, right thanks. Can't understand the point of that one myself.

Well, the 2004 one has more instruments in it, the clarinet in particular, and a bigger, more sweeping feel.

Yes, but it doesn't sound as nice as the original. I'd like to hear this version but oron keeps telling me I have to wait 2 hours 59 minutes and 59 seconds to download. It doesn't count it down though, so you wait three hours press refresh and then it tells you to wait another 2+ hours. Not to sound ungrateful, but why anyone would chose to upload onto a two-bit site like that given the multitude of other superior sites out there, I cannot comprehend.

Oron makes me wait 60 seconds, like most download sites. I think you're doing it wrong.

I took a different (in some cases an entirely opposite) approach in my new mixes compared to many of you. Rather than "remaking" Smile (again) in my own image, I've just made some further "enhancements" to some of the disk one tracks to render it even more "complete" to my ears. Basically, more "fly ins", but I worked very hard to integrate these into the existing disc one tracks without affecting the quality... please let me know what you think.

My current listening sequence of Smile is quite simply the disc one assembly, with the exception of Bruiteur's "cleaned" IIGS and Barnyard and the following tracks:

Do You Like Worms - with the "new" melody line from the sessions integrated into the second verse: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=FXPU9OI3

Wonderful - simply with an edit at the end so it flows directly into "Look". Don't DL this unless you've heard and enjoy my edit of "Look":  http://www.megaupload.com/?d=3A7Q7885

Look - Beach Boys "won won wonderful" vocals in the beginning section courtesy of the JMZ mix. The clarinet line from BWPS is integrated into the choruses (this is the only element I added to any of these tracks that wasn't "vintage", but I made an exception since we know it existed as tape bleed and it's nonvocal). Sounds pretty nice!: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=Q0C8UK7A

Holidays  - with Beach Boys "rock rock roll" vocals integrated into the second chorus (just where they appeared in BWPS) courtesy of the JMZ mix: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=W481WC2O

I know, who wants *more* fly-ins? But I figured, they'd gone far enough already, why not take it all the way? Hope someone enjoys these! Feedback is welcome.

I'd like to know what it is that you find so objectionable.


?

I just don't get it.

I agree that Mark Linnet or his assistants were guilty was some pretty sloppy editing (I do hear the things on your list on the other thread, but so far I'm not that bothered by them, though I agree its a shame) but I don't understand how you can love the box but hate its contents.

Please explain.  

The key-changed "Whispering Winds" vocals don't sound like any Beach Boys blend I've ever heard. except maybe their version of "With a Little Help from My Friends", equally key-changed. But hey, all this pitch shifting was common practice! Caroline No, anyone?!

This is the approach I've taken too. After seven years, I've gotten used to the BWPS sequence, and I now find it hard to argue that (for example) "Wonderful," "Look," "Child" and "Surf's Up" belong together. I'll probably get around to re-doing my decade-old "personal" SMiLE, but for now I'm just tweaking the TSS disc one "album" to make it more to my liking. There are little changes (like restoring the original ending to "Worms" and cleaning up the fade to "Look") and there are the "heretical" changes, like adding the BWPS tag from "Child" to the BB version of "Child." What can I say? I really like how that bit of music "completes" the song and leads right into "Surf's Up" -- and now that it leads into the true BB version it's even sweeter. Don't knock it till you've tried it! I'll also be taking the BWPS musical intro to "Great Shape" and combining it with the "IIGS" demo and the finished BB instrumental track for that bit to make something resembling a complete song -- but that will take a bit of work. Once that's done, I'll jettison "I Wanna Be Around" (never saw the point of it, except when I used it in my own "Elements" suite) and pair "Great Shape" with "Vega-Tables" (I prefer the 45 version to the "album" version).

I may also graft the BWPS tag from "In Blue Hawaii" to "Da-Da" -- it's another example of how some BWPS versions sound more polished and "finished" to me. I'll probably also replace the "album" version of "Holidays" with an instrumental version from the sessions -- "Holidays" was (for me) the worst-sounding of the fly-in vocals, aside from "Great Shape" which just didn't work at all. But basically, I really enjoy the disc one "album" and I'll continue to listen to it as the official (albeit slightly tweaked) version. I'll probably go back and re-work my personal SMiLE at some point, but I'm enjoying the box so much it won't be a priority.

Interesting! I've decided not to change the "structure" of disc one and have only "flown in" a few different elements. Your approach sounds intriguing though. It sounds like you're a big fan of the orchestral interludes that were a feature of BWPS. I personally think they fit best in the live context, but I'd like to hear your edits just to see how you can get it to flow together. As it stands, the only element I took directly from the BWPS sessions (as I posted) was the clarinet line from the "Look" chorus.

Do you like worms?  I think you just opened a can of them.   ;)

I imagine he's talking about the Alvin and the Chipmunks treatment applied to the flown in vocals in Da Da. I think they were right to experiment and try such things but the results were so poor I don't know why they didn't discard them immediately. Flown in and manipulated to hell just for the sake of it.

Yeah -- as I mentioned, I got used to the BWPS sequence, and for the most part that was my "go-to" SMiLE since it came out, rather than my own homemade SMiLE. So when I heard the TSS version, in virtually the same sequence, but without some of those connecting interludes, it felt lacking to me (which was one of my arguments AGAINST them using the BWPS template, but whatever). I don't think I'd ever want to blend BWPS vocals with "real" Beach Boys vocals, but to me, the instrumental tracks are OK -- just like '66, it's music written and arranged by Brian Wilson, played by pros. So for "Child," I took the "tag" from the BWPS version (starting with the piano reprise/cello note) and just pasted right over the ending cello note of the BB "Child." I brightened the EQ just a tad to make the piano notes match the intro to the BB track better, level matched it and folded it into mono, and I have to say -- I love how it sounds. Now a track that always felt like it just kind of fell off the cliff had a "proper" ending -- and maybe more importantly, the majestic "Surf's Up" has a "proper" introduction. (Also, I removed that bit of the "Child" piano demo from the beginning and saved it as a separate "bonus track" -- it just didn't work there for me.)

Once I do the rest of these tweaks I'll collect them all and post them so anyone who's curious can have a listen.

That's interesting, because I thought the fly-ins on "Da Da" were the best of them all -- seamless, sounded great, and filled out the song a little more. The only ones my ears really reject are the "whispering winds" vocals at the end of "Holidays" -- too fast, too unnatural, and too bad -- because I love how it worked on the BWPS version. All the other ones I either love or have accepted -- even the ones in "Look." When I first heard them I thought they were totally pointless -- they made an incomplete song somehow MORE incomplete by adding them -- but after a few listens my brain was already inserting them when I listened to the sessions track, so I just got over it. The "Great Shape" fly-in is in a different category, because it JUST DIDN'T WORK; the "Barnyard" one, though, didn't bother me, and it's even better now after Bruiteur's excellent work. When the box first came out, I (and others) wondered by Mark Linett didn't use spectral imaging software (or something else) to remove the piano from the Humble Harv fly-ins, and a certain Beach Boys scholar and Phil Cohen nemesis scolded all of us for presuming that it could have been done any better. And then, like, two days later ... it was done better.  :lol

Interesting.  To me, the Dada fly-in, while it may make sense on paper, sounded totally artificial and didn't really add much to the song, but somehow I was O.K. with the 'whispering winds' on Holidays, even though the pitch seemed off.  I think the Fall Breaks fly-in on Mrs. O'Leary's Cow was easily the most seamless and successful of these experiments.

I agree that Bruiteur's work on Barnyard was brilliant, but somehow I've really gotten used to that piano line on IIGS and it sounds a little bit naked without it.

The end of "Holidays" is a disaster. Not because Mark and Alan did a poor job of it, it's just not something that can be done well given the two very different keys of their sources. The "Da Da" fly-ins aren't much better - they just sound strange and distracting.

Monicker was pretty spot on with what he said. Less would've been a whole lot more, in cases like this. A handful of the editing choices seem too gimmicky, and the idea of there being regrets over a few of the decisions made considering this goes down as the official Smile album release by the Beach Boys (no matter what they name it) seems likely enough. A lot of well done stuff on here, do not get me wrong, but the previously named issues, the timing being off on several spots on the vocal of what I feel is the key track of the album ("Surf's Up"), etc. just won't do this material justice in the long-term.

For all a lot of these people know, this is how this stuff was meant to sound. They're listening to a comically slowed down vocal bit with timing issues and thinking, "Better than Sgt.Peppers my ass! This guy really did lose it after my precious, precious Pet Sounds was released."

The "Fire" fly-ins work too well, mostly because both recordings were in the same key. That's the very reason why some things work beautifully and some really don't on here. Everyone draws the line at a different point, though, I suppose.

On an unrelated note, even if it wasn't intended and is the result of working with limited sources, the piano on "Barnyard" always worked well on fanmixes, to my ears. There's this drunkenness to it that I think really suits the song.

Just so I know we're talking about the same thing ... the "Da Da" fly-ins I'm talking about are the "da-da-da-da-da-da"s from "Cool Cool Water." Is that what you thought sounded artificial?

I think that this is the issue that a lot of longtime SMiLE fans have been grappling with on the 'approximation' piece here.  I know that I went back and forth between acceptance and more of a purist line in the lead up to 11/1/11.  At the end of the day, acceptance won out because I'm just too happy to finally get an official release and for me, there was more good than bad overall, but of course, this is a highly subjective response and it will be interesting to see how this is all viewed years from now.  In an ideal world, I would have preferred a more restrained, natural approach to this material, but I can only imagine the kind of pressure Mark and Alan were up against here.  Will this stuff sour potential new fans?  I doubt it.  Anyone who has it in them to love this music will hear its brilliance despite a few odd effects and will seek it out further.

I'm still holding out hope for SMiLE. . . Naked somewhere down the road though.   8)

Yeah, Carl's riffing there, though with the pitch change, I almost thought it was a woman singing at first!

I cannot believe how much people grouse about the 'whispering winds' fly-ins.  They've been lowered like one step.  The intensity of some of the complaints about those vox, which are easily one of the more subtly and transparently deployed fly-ins/alterations on the box, kind of make these arguments seem less credible overall.

Da-Da on the other hand...yeah, those sound like chipmunk noises.  At least they're down in the mix.

What can I say? People hear things differently. To me, the "Holidays" fly-ins sound really bad, and the "Da Da" fly-ins sound really good. Different ears, different responses.

They sound awful, d00d. It doesn't matter that it's been lowered "like one step", the results are bad. The timbre sounds incredibly strange and artificial. Like, comically so.

Artificially altering someone's voice like that always really f*cks things up, especially when we're talking about a vocal band like The Beach Boys. The original recording is possibly the most stunningly beautiful sonic capturing of "the blend" that exists. The modified sounds like a team of Notorious B.I.Gs bellowing their parts through a gallon of ice cream in their mouths. It doesn't work.

There's nothing "subtle" or "transparent" about it in the least bit. It's blindingly obvious that it utilizes a totally separate recording and digitally alters the pitch and timing in the 2000s. I've nothing against digital altering if the results are good. These aren't. Bad timbre, bad timing, bad sound, bad results. The worst part is, I really feel like some of this stuff happened to be competitive with fan mixes.

"Fire" is almost seamless, "Holidays" is probably the least so. Honestly, I would've rather they had Brian, Mike, Al and Bruce re-record that vocal part in 2011 than what they did if they really felt it had to be there.

Regardless, I don't see how you can say, "STOP CRITICIZING SLOWED DOWN VOCALS, YOU IDIOT. I'M GONNA COMPLAIN ABOUT SPED UP VOCALS AND I'M NOT AN IDIOT!!!!111111" If one bugs you, isn't it understandable that the other could bug someone else?

Wait... it's NOT?

The whispering winds vocals sound a bit odd. There's not much pitch shifting gone on, but it sounds a bit wooly. Only a minor gripe. The Da Da scatting has been shifted to such an extent that it sounds like a couple of schoolgirls, not at all like the Beach Boys. It should have been left off. I could handle it if the track it was taken off was in the same key or thereabouts, but it was way off.

Anyway, like I was saying...

Was meant to be a joke. But hay.

I agree with most of this.  To me, it's almost unfathomable that the same people who have been working with the band for years and years, and who did a great job on most of the rest of the set could have f***ed up Holidays so badly.  It's just unlistenable to my ears.  And to make it worse, they overdubbed the WW vocals over the start of Wind Chimes, so we have to go to the effort of replacing two tracks to correct one ridiculous mistake.  A minor gripe, but one that should not have been necessary.

I really, really wanted to just accept the 19-track Smile as is, and not mess with it--but I just can't.

Having said all that, I think the DaDa and Fire fly-ins are fine, and with Bruiteur's help, the Great Shape and Barnyard fly-ins are fine too.

Ok, we should have one page consisting of links to the fanmixes, maybe sticky this or put it in a new thread (but that's up to the mods)

Monicker's Conservative Mix:
320 kbps MP3: http://www.mediafire.com/?1uaucaibg3ts6xb
Apple Lossless: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=YSP90RYN

Soniclovenoize stereomix:
320kps mp3s:
http://www.mediafire.com/?h8l3jk2d54jmfvn


SMiLE - soniclovenoize stereo mix 2.0
http://www.mediafire.com/?1i005d3ybr23sxq

Flacs:
Side A: http://www.mediafire.com/?6whwgib17b2ocuw
Side B: http://www.mediafire.com/?1ff6ngdu1gpzlr4

Barnshine's Stereo mix":
http://www.mediafire.com/?hwexk3pniol7ngd

Barnshine's Stereo Companion Mix
DL in FLAC:
http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?ebohkga11j6psub
http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?tpclawrtcy757ep
http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?0wv63jeg8ftvyd0

3 fixed tracks (flac):
Heroes and Villains - improved stereo mix http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?kuardevwjr4flpx
Surf's Up - shortened silence before the track starts http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?jllddgtpvt39evg
Good Vibrations - fixed the dropout http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?0ukv08bfzo6w6a3

Mp3 version (including the fixed tracks): http://www.mediafire.com/?nteo6eopdleu71t



seltaeb1012002 A.D. Mix:
http://icreateification.blogspot.com/2011/11/smile-ad-stereo-mix.html



That's about it, what did I miss?

Mine should be ready pretty soon

Looking forward to it!

Here is a new CIFOTM mix inspired by seltaeb's SMILE AD Stereo Mix. It's not intended to be faithful but I think it sounds pretty cool. Please have a  listen if you like this sort of thing.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/52684612/12_CIFTM_120211.mp3

Thank you! It will include a 6 mn Wind Chimes so watch out!

Liking the 'flown-in' extra vocals (and a bit of CWTL?) I'd really love to know what software and processes people use to extract such clean vocals. Can you let us in on your secrets? :p

I use the "Extraboy" VST

How is anybody's 'Complete SMiLE sessions' coming along? I am really interested in either hearing someones or getting a walkthrough to it....

The tag on Child wasn't exactly written by Brian. Sure it quotes the "Surf's Up" melody but didn't Paul Mertens come up with the BWPS interludes?

HERE'S (http://www.sendspace.com/file/nqd35j) how I crossfade Child with Surf's Up... it works for me!

It sounds like it's going to be rather long-winded. ;D

I'm actually working on a Smiley SMiLE blend of both songs! And I just realized that my only chance of having a stereo Wonderful is with using SOT 18 (stereo smiley smile version), so I guess that'll be a blend of both versions. I tried to slow down the speed of the SMile version backing track to adapt to the stereo SS version, sounds like it's gonna be difficult but possible.

Interesting ... I think you made that edit one note too early, personally, and it's a little too abrupt a transition for me. I thought about trying to simulate the BWPS tag to "Child" using the TSS pieces for "Child" and "Surf's Up" 1st movement, but it would have been tricky, and the truth is, I was perfectly happy to use the BWPS recording of that tag. It fits very nicely to me, and I like the way it swells and fades (kinda like a wave) before "Surf's Up."

Also, as to the "authorship" of that tag -- it was music derived from Brian's compositions, so regardless of who actually put the notes on paper (I thought it was Darian, working with Brian), it's close enough for me!  ;D

Currently working on final touches and edits, and hoping to post in a few days.

Sorry my heads gone alittle

erm, has there been a fanmix of TSS with flown in isolated vocals/bv's from BWPS done?
if there is i'd love to hear it, is there one in stereo too?

thanking all the good work on here!

http://icreateification.blogspot.com/2011/11/smile-ad-stereo-mix.html

No Holidays? :(
great effort tho!

Has anybody else attempted flying in BBs "rock, rock roll" vox on Holidays?  JMZ did that, as I recall, but it was pre-TSS and of overall low fidelity (though the fly-ins themselves sounded great).

I recently tried out this Worms/Holiday edit and used some of  the BWPS vocals over the '66 track. This was my first trip to the dark side of using BWPS vocals, but they blend in OK and I think it turned out pretty good. The BB vocals just don't have the same spirit as the BWPS vocals unfortunately. It's here if you want to have a listen:

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/52684612/Do%20You%20Like%20Worms.mp3

try THIS ONE (http://www.sendspace.com/file/tjd18n)

I was going over and over the acapella "rock, rock roll" vox from the Backing Vocals montage from TSS tonight, seeing if they could be fit to Holidays, but you have to transpose them down about 5 steps to where they sound ridiculous.  The weird thing is that in JMZ's mix, it's like he's got them singing a different interval and they aren't as "slowed down" sounding as a result.  Like rather than the root and the major third (as on TSS, DYLW itself) it's the third and the fifth of the same major chord, transposed accordingly (I'm getting beyond the limits of my theory vocabulary here).  I don't even know where or how he got his isolated vox pre-TSS, or whether he ran them through some really heavy manual re-pitching, rather than just transposing the whole thing up or down.  I wish he posted more and could explain what he did...

I like it!

The basic mixes/reconstructions I made so far:


Gee - mono/stereo mixes without horn part, just a fade out
Heroes And Villains Part 2 - structure from new Part 2 mono mix, but using stereo sections from TSS
Heroes And Villains Stereo mix - 2nd chorus error fixed using the 1st chorus
Do You Like Worms - Complete fade restored
I'm In Great Shape - Mono/stereo mixes of the master take without the fly ins
Barnyard - edit using the sections with backing vocals and non of the fly ins, and a small part from the instrumental take
The Old Master Painter - Instrumental first part replaced by the same take (as TSS mono mix) from the sessions, to avoid the cross fade. I made the edit to the vocal a bit earlier, more like the original mono mix with vocal from '66.
Look - stereo mix
Child Is Father Of The Man - stereo and mono backing track like '66 mono backing track, 3-minute mono mix using TSS edited like '66 backing track
I Wanna Be Around - mono mix faded out.
Holidays - stereo mix, mono mix with original fade from the stereo master take
Wind Chimes - TSS sources edited like GV Box Set and the structure of all '66 mixes. THe extra instrumental bars edited out, and the fade is from the sessions disc, which is the same fade as the GV Box.
Water Chant - mono mix faded out.

I still want to make a few more basic mixes, Vega-Tables for example. I want to avoid the cross-fade and the extra instrumental bars if possible, are there any ideas on what the best way is to achieve that? I already tried to edit the first bars out, and it only seems to sound OK when I use a small fade in, which I actually try to avoid...

What 2nd chorus error?

What parts specifically?  I was able to edit out some things and insert a second of the tracking sections to replace were the residue of the crossfade would have been.  Does that even make sense?  :/

There is a strange edit/click noise just a little moment after the 2nd chorus has started, and the first one doesn't have that.

Hi soniclovenoize, first of all thanks for your fan mix!

Yeah, I also did that but Vega-Tables originally started with the vocal straightaway originally. I'm afraid that edit is only possible using a small fade in, but for just a clean start it is indeed an option to use a bit of the tracking sessions.

I don't hear it.

It might be possible to hear it on headphones only, listen for it in the right channel at around 3:32/3:33.

Oh, I see, you mean starting the song with "I'm" instead of the intro bars?  I believe I can make you that...  How would you want the rest of the song to go?

EDIT:
OK wait, my edit starts right away...  Are you saying you want one that has the few bars into or without? 

Yeah, I'd like to have a mix that starts right away without the intro bars. The rest of the song is fine for me, it's just that intro that was not supposed to be there according to sessions and mixes from '67. Did you manage to get a good start of the song without any fading (so with a hard edit) or did you have to use a fade in as well to make it sound OK?

Hm, I just used the stereo mix from the LP, it has a hard start juts how you want it!  ;) 
Here's my mix of Vege-Tables, as you can hear it starts off right away. 
http://www.mediafire.com/?fg43pwy6rf95x46

Also, in playing back the sessions tapes from TSS and SoT17, it seems that was how it was recorded, so it feels like Linnett created that intro himself by repeating the first 4 bars and tagging it onto the beginning... 

Thanks! Can you tell me what source for the vinyl rip you used, and if you think that's the best source, may be in a PM?

I think he used the one that comes with the Smile Sessions Set.  It has the hard intro.

Welcome SmileMixers!

I'm new to this message board but have been SMiLE-obsessed for over ten years.  Like many of you I've dreamed about what a completed 60's-era Smile would have sounded like, and made some tentative mixes from the SOT boots a few years ago.  With the release of TSS in November, I've decided now is the time to realize my vision.  My aim is to compile a 40 minute, "2-Sided" 13-song stereo album (circa 1967) that hopefully invokes other psychedelic classics of that era (Sgt Pepper, Satanic Majesties, Piper at the Gates of Dawn, etc.).  Because I'll be incorporating the best bits from both the Smile AND Smiley Smile Sessions, I will in no way attempt to be historically accurate and will take liberties some may well consider heretical.  Any comments or suggestions will be welcome!

The first song I've completed is Heroes and Villains Part 1.  Here's the DL link:

http://www.mediafire.com/?6119kgbsp77y79i
 
http://www.4shared.com/music/ABGAQNOQ/Heroes_And_Villains_Part_1.html

I didn't mess around too much with the formula on this one, since it WAS released as a single.  But beware of what will follow!!

I gotta say, I like this quite a bit. I hope the rest of your mix goes well.

Thanks.
 
Next up is Vegetables, which will be a Smile / Smiley Smile hybrid.
Should be finished in a few days.

Added some BG vocals from Vegetables to The Old Master Painter:

Listen:  http://dl.dropbox.com/u/52684612/The%20Old%20Master%20Painter.mp3

Download:  http://www.mediafire.com/?5j1zjj5551v7bpj

Wish I could find JMZ's mix somewhere. It seems to be completely lost from the internet.

Nope, just looked and it's still there. From 2011, the most recent addition to the web site.

Where where??

Hey long time board reader/first time poster! ;)

If anyone wants to have a look at my Heroes & Villains single pt 1 & 2 mix (pt 1 finishes at 2:05), here it is:
http://www.mediafire.com/download/9yufe95p4w58vtk/H%26VSingle45.wav

cheers! :)

Perm.denied!
Cheers

sorry about that! DAMN YOU MEDIAFIRE!  >:(

there you go.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/xj1j9myrublpnjp/h%2Bvpt1%2B2.wav

Here is an "outside the boxset" approach to DYLW.  The historical contex of this trak (and my entire SMiLE fan mix) is .....well there is no album ..................and knowing the way Brian tinkered endlessly........and given enough time and money....welllll?? 
http://www.4shared.com/folder/FXVetYBy/_online.html

OK I listened to it, but I don't understand it. Is Good Vibrations a part of the DYLW concept to you? Anyway, it was different; that's for sure.

The addition of GV at the end was an afterthought and imo not part of DYLW.  I was playing with the "row" chant and looking for somewhere to go with it.  The file shared here is part2 of DYLW that includes bicycle rider, follows Cabinessence in album sequence and serves as a closing to the "American Saga" portion of this mix.  Part1 uses the  Indian chants plus "church of the American Indian" sections and serves as the opening.

So, old thread...I've posted this info in bits and pieces elsewhere but it seems relevant for this place as well.

When it comes to SMiLE I feel there are endless valid ways to mix it all together. It's because of this that I've come resent the BWPS playing order and its acceptance as the standard on TSS and most fan mixes. I personally don't think the 'three suites" order does the material justice. They all sound very uneven between Americana's many musical fragments, Innocence's scant 4 song length, and the Element's haphazardness (The Elements was originally a 4ish minute instrumental, not a conglomeration of Fire/WC/V-T/Dada.)

I've heard some "one suite" continuous mixes as well but I think those tend to drone on and lose the listener. That's why I prefer a "two suite" mix, broken up by the Sides of the LP. Or a "No suite" mix, just 12-14 songs as they are. VDP claims the conventional 12 song idea is accurate, Vosse doesn't mention any suites in his interview, and Brian had never done anything like that before. But then again, SMiLE was unconventional in every way, the album as an artistic whole was being realized by most artists around 1966(by Brian himself, with Pet Sounds) and there are so many musical motifs between the tracks and thematic ideas which span many a song...so I think it's appropriate to group the songs by "Side." Not as strict suites but just as simple collections of tracks that sound best together. 

For my Two Side Mix I followed Today's example and put the 'rockers' on Side 1 and the more somber tracks on Side Two. As it worked out, Side One ended up being the story of America and Side Two the Cycle of Life. The tracks traditionally associated with the elements ended up being split, but keep in mind they were never meant to be together anyway circa '67. It kind of makes sense this way as well: the songs we associate with Earth and Fire are part of the American Story--stealing and reforging the land from the Indians. While Air and Water make sense in the cycle of life. They're necessary for our body to take in, all we are is dust in the wind/all life comes from water...

So anyway, I call it SMiLE: Reflections and the links to listen on YouTube are in my signature. The Track Order is:

Side One
(Our Prayer/Gee)
1-Heroes and Villains
2-Cabin Essence
3-Do You Like Worms?
4-Mrs. O'Leary's Cow
5-Vega-Tables
6-Heroes and Villains (Reprise)

Side Two
(You're Welcome/Holidays)
7-Wind Chimes
8-Child is Father of the Man
9-Wonderful/Look (I Ran)
10-Cool, Cool Water
11-Second Day (Love to Say Dada)
12-Surf's Up

Pretty unique. Some heretical decisions like including CCW at the expense of Good Vibrations, but it flows really well musically and thematically. Not 100% accurate but it's a 12 tracker at believable album length (about 48 minutes) that showcases the most complete songs in extended form. I excised the fragments (Barnyard, First half of Holidays, OMP, Workshop) in favor of beefing up the core tracks (Worms, Fire, Wind Chimes, CIFOTM, Wonderful, CCW are all extended with session outtakes.) As for the others, I edited Heroes and split it up so it'd flow better, I used the single version of VT with a restored piano-intro overlaid with the ballad insert, Look from the SMiLE AD 4 mix, and flown in flutes for Dada. 

I'm mostly happy with the results, but I would like to improve some things: 
--For starters, Im thinking of taking out Gee (for time purposes and as someone else said, it's sort of anticlimactic after Prayer) and putting in the Bridge to Indians vocal part leading into the trumpet from the end of Gee into H&V proper.

--Perhaps adding in the Whistling Bridge part before the fade-out of H&V

--Taking out the lone BWPS fly in at the end of CE. I despise BWPS fly ins out of principle, I wasn't aware this part was from that, and now that I know, I'll be removing it.

--Experimenting with putting in the Whistle In vocals over the extended part from the sessions at the end of Worms 

--Experimenting with Wonderful's "Mama" chant over certain parts in Fire. Don't ask why.

--Perhaps bringing the Workshop track back in as an intro to V-T, overlaid with vegetable crunching and the best of the Veggies Fight with Hal. This could almost be seen as a reenactment of the European/Indian clash over the land and how ridiculous it was. This might prove to be a better transition from Fire's horror to V-T's humor as well. 

--Plug either the H&V Piano Theme/Part Two Master Take or OMP between the Bicycle Rider Chorus of H&V and the False Barnyard Fadeout.

--Reinstate half of the first half of Holidays after You're Welcome  

--Clean up the transition between WC and CIFOTM by splicing in some of Wind Chimes Version 1 from the sessions. 

--Splicing in the Pretty Baby Don't You Rock with me, Henry parts of Wonderful over the Piano Fade.

--Keep Look as an instrumental, perhaps with some CIFOTM trumpets over the throwback parts, and (if they fit) fly in the 'church of the American Indian' parts too as a link to Side One 

--Try to splice the backing 'drip drip drink a little' parts into the instrumental part of CCW

--Experiment with overlaying the Talking Horns over Surf's Up part 2 so that the falsetto fade outs match the eerie trumpet fade outs that begin around 1:30 or so. At the the end of SU proper, the opening trumpet riffs of George Fell (as well as the comedy skit itself) comes on. This will balance each Side with a comedy section. This one after Surf's Up fits thematically as it expresses the merging of a man with his music. 

^This version, when I finally get around to making it, will be called SMiLE: Reflections (The Indulgence Cut.) I'm hoping to keep it at 50 minutes or under so it could still conceivably fit on one vinyl album (even if it is pushing the limit.) 

Anyway, I have to say I'm a little disappointed reading these comments and seeing the desire for more BWPS mash ups and acceptance of the track order. Personally, nothing takes my out of a SMiLE mix quicker than BWPS sections hamfisted in (it's like fixing a shattered vase with duct tape--yes, it's "fixed" but the tape obscures the beauty of the original fragments), and the BWPS order does the material a disservice. My issues with the TSS version are as follows:

--H&V sounds kinda "messy." Most fan mixes and bootlegs I've heard sequence this track a lot better, and it's just a bit too long for my tastes. I love H&Vs, but some versions of it wear out their welcome and drag on, and this is one of them. I hate the way it ends especially. Just...very anticlimactic.

-All the fragmentary, unfinished, flow-killing "feels" at the beginning cause the album to lose all momentum. I always find newcomers to SMiLE getting bored at this point. Yeah, Barnyard and OMP are nice, but they should've been left on the outtakes discs, not in the now-official cut of the album.

-Wonderful, Look and CIFOTM don't flow into one another as they could/should. CIFOTM is too short for all the beautiful outtakes recorded for it. The fly-ins for Look are distracting, underwhelming and unnecessary. If you couldn't find the lost vocal session, just keep it an instrumental.

-Surf's Up's emotional power is completely lost when the absurd, humorous Vega-Tables comes so soon after. It's like the beginning of a whole seperate album and not in a good way. 

-I didn't mind, but I can see why people dislike the Whispering Winds fly-ins.

-Why leave Cool, cool water off if you include I Wanna Be Around? Why not put Workshop after Fire if you insist on including it at all? Why fly in vocals for Dada but not the flutes from Second Day? 

-Apparently I'm in the minority here, but I hate GV as an album closer. 

So, I may be in minority, but my work deals with addressing these issues for those of us who prefer a different order. Personally, while I love the boxset, I hate the Disc 1 19-track version of the album. I agree with the sentiment that it will be seen as a mistake in the years to come. 

One needs only to look at the track listings of Smiley Smile, 20/20 and Surf's Up to realize what the final lineup would (or should) have been on a 2-sided SMiLE LP in 1967:  Side One opens with Our Prayer/Heroes and Villains and closes with Cabinessence.  Side Two opens with Good Vibrations (at Capitol's insistance I'm certain) and closes with Surf's Up.  Everything else is anyone's guess.  I just don't see anything else that works as well.

I tried an "authentic" mix not too long ago, and the resulting tracklist turned out about as basic a sequence as you can get for Smile:

Side 1
01. Our Prayer
02. Heroes and Villains ("part 1" off MiC)
03. I'm In Great Shape - my own mix suspiciously similar to soniclovenoize's (sorry)
04. Vega-Tables
05. Do You Like Worms?
06. Cabin Essence

Side 2
01. Good Vibrations
02. Wind Chimes
03. The Elements
04. Wonderful
05. Child Is Father Of The Man
06. Surf's Up

I agree, on a 100% historical mix H&V opens Side One and GV opens Side Two. I don't think we can be as certain of CE and SU as closers tho. It's just as possible for VT to be one of the closers (it was considered as a potential single) or for Surf's Up to close Side One...

There's really no way we can be sure. I've also heard OMP was supposed to be some sort of finale. Whether for Side One or the whole album I don't know.

I've experimented on several "No Suite" 60s style (2 sides, ~12 track) tracklists. By "No Suite" I mean I made absolutely no effort to sort the songs based on theme. Here's two of those mixes:

Prayer/H&V
CIFOTM
Cabin Essence
CCW
DYLW
Surfs Up

GV
Holidays
Wind Chimes
Wonderful
Friday Nights/Workshop
VT

&

You're Welcome/H&V
Wonderful
DYLW
CIFOTM
OMP
GV

H&V Part 2
VT
CE
Wind Chimes
The Elements
Surfs Up/Prayer

In the first one, Brian has discarded the elements already. In the second, we're following Vosse's suggestion that Prayer be at the end

I love "Our Prayer", one of my favorite BB/BW songs, and it's in all my SMiLE fanmixes. But, I wonder if it would've been on a 1967 album? Sometimes I can hear the album starting out simply with "Heroes And Villains".

According to Vosse it was the ending. According to Brian on the tapes it's an intro to the album. I disagree that it wouldve been left off. It wouldve been part of H&V, not its own entity as has happened retroactively, so technically the album *would* be starting simply with H&V.

I can't remember, was "Our Prayer" listed separately on the infamous handwritten tracklist submitted to Capitol by whoever?

To me, "Our Prayer" never sounded like an "introductory" piece. Not that it matters, but I've always ended my SMiLE fanmixes with "Our Prayer" then "Surf's Up".

I don't believe it was, I think as far as Brian was concerned it was a H&V fragment

Regardless if Brian considered it part of H&V it was always intended to be the intro for the album as Brian himself clearly says to the other boys during the session.

Yes, I know. For me personally, *the* most "heretical" decision one could make regarding a SMiLE mix is to not begin with Prayer since that's the one thing we have evidence for. Brian himself said where it goes on tape, during the original sessions. Case closed. It is kinda cool at the end tho, to be fair. Really brings home the "Goodbye Surfing, Hello God!"

Not case closed for me. In my opinion, with deja vu feelings, and it's fun to discuss fanmixes again... :police:

Up until BWPS, and I don't want to get started on that, the only basis for starting SMiLE with "Our Prayer" was a single line, an utterance, a thought expressed by a stoned Brian Wilson one night at a session. Brian saying "This (the song they were working on, "Our Prayer") would make a cool opening track for an album", or something like that, never sold me. That is far from evidence. But that's just me.

They had the opportunity to start an album with "Our Prayer" - and didn't. Yeah, yeah, I know how it worked. The hit, in this case "Do It Again" got that slot. But think of the other possibilties. "Our Prayer" into 'Be With Me" or "our Prayer" into "I Can Hear Music". Or even "Our Prayer" into "Do It Again". I like it where it is on 20/20, but I digress....

Well, rule one of a SMiLE Mix is there are no rules, and I admire you for thinking outside the BWPS/TSS mold if nothing else. I mean, I leave GV off most of my mixes so I'm all about experimenting with this material. But for the record, Brian sounds pretty confident about it on tape. One of the Boys suggests having Prayer be its own track and he shoots them down immediately "No we don't wanna do that. This is an intro to the album. Ok, this is intro to the album, take one." Not Prayer. Intro to the album. Pretty significant if you ask me, I don't care how much hash was smoked that night. 

The fact that it wasn't the intro on 20/20 means NOTHING. Less than nothing. SMiLE is a separate project, these were just old tracks tacked onto the end of a new, different album called 20/20. How they were sequenced on that has NOTHING to do with their place on SMiLE. 

 :hat

Well Vosse describes something similar to Our Prayer closing the album after SU so he's not definitely claiming that Prayer was at the end. I'm inclined to think he means prayer but others have argued that he's heard 20/20 at that point (and references it in the article iirc) so surely if he was talking about prayer specifically, he would have said something about it being the same track as on the (then) new BB album 20/20.

Not sure about Our Prayer being part of H&V. Is it labelled as a H&V session - didn't know this. It always sounded off to me moving from a very earnest chant to a comedy song. Works much better going into GV to my ears. Still he does end some Heroes sections with a similar drawn out mmmmm so who knows ...

What I'd like to know is what the title of "the album" was at the time of that session. To me, "Prayer" is the perfect opener to an album called "Dumb Angel", but a terrible opener for an album called "SMiLE".

(In my SMiLE mixes Prayer usually precedes Good Vibrations, which I use as last track. Only one of my mixes ends differently with Surf's Up second to last and Vega-Tables last.)

Good point! Wow - wouldn't Dumb Angel have been a cool album title?

What I'd like to know is what the title of "the album" was at the time of that session. To me, "Prayer" is the perfect opener to an album called "Dumb Angel", but a terrible opener for an album called "SMiLE".
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Good point! Wow - wouldn't Dumb Angel have been a cool album title?
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I always thought that Dumb angel would be more acurate title for this album, very cool indeed and very catchy to ear!
Next time I do my smile mix I´m namin´ it "Dumb angel"! ;D

Of course, but I like SMiLE as well.

The Prayer sessions on the box were from Sept and Oct '66. Personally, I think you guys are overthinking it tho. Brian wanted to do an album that showed the religiousness of humor. Music people prayed to. A teen symphony to god. H&V jumpstarts the album introing all these things.

Yer thinking too literally.

Also, while I can't imagine Smile opening with anything other than "Prayer", his change-my-mind-on-an-hourly-basis high-on-LSD comments shouldn't be taken as absolute proof of how anything would have been on a final album. Granted it's the best we've got, but still.

Just in case anyone's dying to check out yet another Smile fan mix, I recently did one just for fun that sticks to the handwritten track list in its written order*. This was purely for my own enjoyment, and not because I believe that was really Brian's intention or anything. Anyway I did my very best to try and ensure that only 1966 session material got used on this mix. Not very much in the way of overdubbing or studio trickery either-- just butt edits for the most part.

Anyway I thought it turned out to be pretty listenable, so I'd welcome any feedback from you all.

* - I had to fudge "The Elements" a bit by using segments of other outtakes since obviously huge chunks of it were neither attempted nor completed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogmhb21ORJc

Neat thanks for this!  Intradesting Heroes and Villains...

The problem with that handwritten track order is, I feel like whomever wrote it, they were writing it off the top of their head.  So all the songs that seemed to be more formalized and structured were listed first (Surf's Up, Good Vibrations, DYLW,etc) because they were the most complete or at least a mental blueprint of the songs existed.  And then after Wonderful, they seemed to mentally struggle and began grasping for the songs that were no where near finished and were in pieces (Vege-Tables, I'm In Great Shape, etc). By the end, we even have a crossed out parenthesis ("Maybe this song but I'm not sure...  Well yeah maybe OK whetever").   

When I got my first Smile boot I hadn't read anything about the album other than the sleevenotes of the SS/WH twofer so I took the back cover at face value, dismissing the "see label" note as a bit of old-timey frippery like "File under: popular" or "consult you hi-fi dealer".  By the time I was aware that everybody else didn't have it that way, I'd gotten used to it.  I did eventually change things up, but my fanmix still bears traces of the back cover order.  I still like DYLW at the beginning because it's a slow build and anytime I've put it anywhere it just seems to dissipate the momentum.

I definitely noticed this as well. You can hear the structure start to kind of fall apart on side two right after "Wonderful". But in a way that always kind of seems to happen anyway whenever you get to people's interpretations of "The Elements", "OMP" etc., even on BWPS.

There's some things I do like about the tracklist though. A finished "Worms" would have made a nice starter, introducing the chronological narrative. (I never understood why you would have a song about the roots of American colonialism follow a song that takes place in the old West ca. mid 1800s.) The rest of side 'A' flows really well for me. I particularly like sandwiching "Surf's Up" between "Heroes" and "GV". Most people tend to stick it either in the middle or the end of their mixes, but I like it close to the front like this. It's a strong song so why not showcase it?

In terms of a side closer and a side opener, "Cabin Essence" and "Wonderful" will do nicely. Finally, the "Western Theme" seems to me a natural album closer, and at least it make some sense as to why Brian chose to attach it to the seemingly unrelated "OMP".

Thanks for listening!

I agree. "Heroes And Villians" into "Do You Like Worms" never sounded quite right, especially lyrically but also musically. It's too much of the "Heroes And Villains" main riff repeated over and over.

That is why I prefer "You're Welcome" into "Do You Like Worms" to start my SMiLE fanmix. However, because of that, I struggle to find a good spot for "Heroes And Villains". The lyrics are past tense; it's almost like a review/summary type song. Where do most of you place "Heroes And Villains" in your mixes?

Well just from a story perspective, I could see placing it after "Worms" and before "Cabinessence" and "Surf's Up". So basically first colonization, then conquest, then the railroads and labor exploitation, and then the so-called refinement of the opera glass and the (orchestra) pit and the pendulum.

Musically, somewhere towards the beginning. I could never really picture it as a second side piece.

I think that the most that can be assumed from that quote that was that, on the day of that recording at least, BW intended for it to be the album intro. Words like "always" and "clearly" don't apply to the process at work in the production of Smile. That being said, I think it makes a beautiful album opener, and it fits with the idea of America being settled by Europeans for the purpose of religious freedom.

I would like to say I really dislike the phrase "Bring it on." That is all.

krabklaw, your SMiLE knowledge and mixing expertise blows me away so don't take personal exception to this...

I really like your theory about "America being settled by Europeans for the purpose of religious freedom". I don't know if that was Brian's intention with the song, BUT I LIKE IT! However, again, that was also the end result, SETTLED (past tense) AFTER the colonization. And I think "Our Prayer" works as an "OK, now we can relax and contemplate and thank God what what we/he has done...", placing it more at the end than the beginning. I don't know, just a thought.... :police:

Well, I do think Prayer works as an album closer or opener. Depending on your mindset, I guess it could serve as either an invocation or a benediction and on BWPS they use it as both. I end my preferred track sequencing with Old Master Painter/You Were My Sunshine/Barnshine. It ends the album on an "up" note, as opposed to the somber Prayer. The Capitol memo has theOMP/YWMS listed as the album closer and for me that's where it works the best. Jason has discovered something by making his mix that I've felt for a good long while now. By and large, the Capitol memo sequencing works quite well. I'll never understand why it is so quickly disregarded by so many fans on this board, BWPS notwithstanding.

Not unless you use the Cantina version! 

In my opinion a) the length of the two sides of the LP become uneven (21 min vs 15 min) and b) i feel that as a whole the songs do not flow very well in that order. 

Just imagine: An album side that includes Heroes and Villains, then Surf's Up, then Good Vibrations, then (maybe) Cabinessence. Greatest album side ever? Just could be. Then you have the more far-out experimental stuff on side 2.

It's not in Brian's handwriting, Brian claimed to have never seen it before, it's been said to just be a list of songs rather than a tracklist, it lists "Great Shape" as its own track for some odd reason, the playing order makes little sense and, to me, does not "work" at all in that order, etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.

I still wish The Smile Sessions Companion was a thing. :(

   Seems like we've been down this path before/ :-D Of course, we don't really know what form IIGS would have have taken, but we do at least have a recording of BW demo-ing it for someone followed by Barnyard. Would a track named IIGS, as it was at one time considered, ultimately include Barnyard? Maybe. Would such a concoction constitute a complete track? Maybe. I think one thing we'll agree on is that whether the list "works" or not, that is completely subjective.

Aw man, I'm sorry for being a repetitive ASS. :(

(Please don't mistake that as sarcasm.)

I think he's saying it's disrgarded by fans because it's merely a list - not even written by Brian - of songs that he'd been working on during that time period and isn't really a track list of any sort. Hence the infamous "see label for correct playing order." If Brian had written the list, I imagine it might be used more often. As it is, it's just something someone scribbled out to get the covers printed.

Also, I think it really stacks the front side and then causes the second side to trail off a bit. How is anything supposed to follow the run of "Heroes and Villains," "Surf's Up," "Good Vibrations," and "Cabin Essence"?

He's my latest iteration..using Pet Sounds as a template, I closed side A with the previous single and both sides opens with the newest singles. 12 tracks, featuring 3 ''movements'' and an intermission (GV). Of course, all in glorious mono! :hat

Side A (19:30)

(Prayer) (SS mix)
1. Heroes and Villians (MIC pt 1 cantina mix)
2. Do You Like Worms (SS mix with original fade added)
3. Im' In Great Shape (soniclovenoize's mix: Barnyard/GS/I wanna be around/Friday night)
4. The Old Master Painter (OMP/Sunshine/Barnshire re-record)
5. Cabin Essence (SS mix)
6. Good Vibrations (Smiley Smile Japan remaster)

Side B (18:10 or 19:20 with ''You're Welcome'' at the end)

7. Vega-Tables (SS mix)
8. Wind Chimes (GV box mix)
9. The Elements (Fire w/effect BW mono mix/Dada GV box mix-no fire intro and no water chant)
10. Wonderful (SS mix with fade at the bass line)
11. Child Is Father Of The Man (SS mix restored to 3 min backing track original BW edit)
12. Surf's Up (SS mix)
(You're Welcome) (SS mix)