The Smiley Smile Message Board

So, what stuff isn't on the box?

Heroes and Villains "Cantina Version", in fact is the "at three score..." even on the set at all?
H&V vocal overdubs on UM17, I think they're instructive and I like the "hitsville" at the end.
Vegetables Celesta overdubs on UM17

I'm trying to figure out what to delete from my boot collection.

It's on the 7" only, is my understanding.

Oh, silly me, it's on the "early outtake sections" too.

Yeah but it's edited differently.  I don't have the 2CD yet but going by the tracklisting I think it might be on there listed as "H&V Part One".  As for what isn't on TSS, they didn't give us many vocal sessions.  "Wonderful", "Child Is Father Of The Man", "You Are My Sunshine", "Cabin Essence", "Wind Chimes", "Do You Like Worms?" I believe are all missing vocal overdubs.  I know the vocals are featured on the main program but as far as the unedited vocals as they appear on the multi-track tapes, they aren't included on TSS.

"Lifeboat tape"
"Smog"
"Bob Gordon's Real Trip"
"Basketball Game"
"Taxigabber"
Brian's October '66 mono mix/edit of Our Prayer
Brian's October '66 mono mix of Wonderful
Brian's October '66 mono mix/edit of Wind Chimes
Brian's October '66 mono mix/edit of Child Is Father of the Man backing track
Brian's October and December '66 mono mixes/edits of Cabin Essence
Brian's November '66 mono mix of My Only Sunshine
Brian's December '66 edit pieces of Child Is Father of the Man
Brian's December '66 mono mix of Barnyard
Brian's December '66 mono mixes of Do You Like Worms
Brian's December '66 mono acetate of Heroes and Villains verse vocals
Brian's January '67 mono acetates of Bicycle Rider
Brian's January, February, and June '67 test edits of Heroes and Villains
Brian's April '67 test edit of Vega-Tables

What is Bob Gordan's Real Trip supposed to be anyway

Just one of Brian's experimental recordings from this period

Would you say that these mono mixes were mostly test mixes (oh gosh I may be opening a can of worms here!)?

I'll open it further… is there enough material here for a follow-up release?

Doubt it, unless they were going to use more session bits. The "Lifeboat tape" wouldn't ever be released mainly due to the rampant profanity throughout. Same for "Smog".

I don't know if most of those test mixes of Brian's even exist in the tape vaults anymore. Many are from acetates.

The Cantina version is indeed H&V Part one on bothe the 2 CD set and the 45 on the big box

What Brian mono mix/edit of Wind Chimes?  Are you talking about the Vosse described acetate, which has not been found and there is some uncertainty if it exists?  I sure wish they'd found that.

Lettuce, turnip, and pea
Lifter, leg, and poker

That's correct.

The Cantina version of H&V is on the two disc version but not the box set, oddly enough.

It is it's just marooned on a 45.

- "With Me Tonight" (2 versions) (Though one was officially released on Hawthorn, CA. Also, am I mistake or are the session notes referring to the Hawthorn version?)
- "Water Chant" (sessions)
- "Wind Chimes" (vocal sessions)

The 3+ minute version of WMT on Archeology is really good, would've loved for it to be on this box...

I was hoping they'd include the take of "With Me Tonight" where Brian gives the most hilariously exaggerated falsetto performance of his life. Funniest sh*t ever. For a guy who was turned into a bit of a taskmaster when the others goofed around too much, this one always struck me as odd.

i thought that three score stuff was on disc two

I can't imagine a tracking session for the Water chant being too...lengthy. Vocal sessions, sure.

Not having the "three score and five" section included would be like not having the "cantina" section included. It would be a travesty not having it in this set.

Can't remember if I've heard the cornucopia lyrics to Vegetables included. Is it on here somewhere?

The demo.

Ah, OK, cool.

The SMiLE Party recording.
Not that I miss that on the box, but it's not there.

So what boots are obsolete now?

This is gonna be a bitch to sort out. Some stuff is here in great quality but in less complete form than on a bootleg. Again, I wouldn't go deleting anything quite yet, and it's basically impossible for anyone here to know quite yet what has become redundant and what hasn't.

The Inside Pop solo version of Surf's Up isn't on the box.

Is there any sign of the legendary/mythical acetates from Durrie Parks' attic having been obtained for the TSS project?

They had been, and there was apparently not much of interest.

They've excised some of the swearing from the tapes! It's a bit strange, seeing as some is left in.

How true.    And the overdubs and "fly ins" make it all even more difficult to sort out.  It will take some time.  Maybe one day, I'll get some decent editing software and try some different versions of SMiLE based on personal preference.  I've always enjoyed tinkering with the sequence of this music.  Now there is so much more to work with and sort out.  Fun Fun Fun!

Oh, and if I were tossing redundant BeachBoys music I could probably find a lot more than SMiLE to toss.  I just keep it all.

I thought that was odd too - I wish they'd left it all in just so they could throw a "Parental Advisory" sticker on the front.  How cool would that have been, seeing people's reactions to that sticker on a Beach Boys record?

^ Oh, you've got to elaborate on that one :p.

I can't recall any particularly colourful language on the boots I've heard- what do I need to listen out for?

Terry -- I distinctly remember hearing Mike say "Oh, f**k" on the booted version of the "Our Prayer" rehearsal. I'm sure there was more, but I can't think of any right now. Even pre-Smile...the Recorded "live" at a...Beach Boys' Party! outtakes are LOADED with profanities (and one even made it to the album if you listen to "Devoted To You" closely!).

Fun Is In -- I think it's been reported that Durrie's acetates were auditioned for the project, but didn't have anything worthwhile.

AvanTodd -- yeah, but that really needs to be SEEN. The audio quality isn't really appropriate, considering the sound quality of the rest of the set...but yeah, you need to SEE that. Only known video footage in existence of Brian soloing at that.

Fishmonk -- I think we can safely assume that any boot whose sole contents are the Linnet '88 tape are obsolete. :)

I don't think Linett's 1988 mixes can be discarded at all.  I still think that if you want pure interpretations of the material without any of the fly-ins, you really need to consult those mixes.  "Wonderful" in particular if you want to hear the track without the yodeling vocals which on TSS somewhat obscure Brian's lead at times, then you need to consult the earlier mix.  Offhand I believe the same goes for a lot of Linett's 88' mixes which I think were pretty solid considering what he was working with at the time.

As an aside I was amazed as to how candid they were in allowing certain strands of dialogue to remain.  The "Denny Hash Joints" comment is one that immediately springs to mind which is something that if you asked me months earlier I probably would have said had no chance of making the cut.

Honestly I think anything that could have been interpreted the wrong way such as some of Brian's comments to Hal Blaine during the "Veggie Arguments" or Van Dyke's comments during the "Good Humor Man" segment weren't going to make the cut anyhow.  Add to that a lot of the profanity that litters the "SMiLE Era Party" and it's no surprise that that session wasn't mined for the box set either.  But I think overall they were pretty candid about what they did include as far as dialogue goes.

yeah, but most of 'em are on the GV box, though, aren't they??


I think it' just there to basically confirm what everybody says -- that drugs were a big part of Smile. The "acid trip" comment is in there, too, but like on the boots, it's subtle; you almost have to specifically pay attention to catch it. (Then again, a friend of mine, who knows NOTHING about the Beach Boys, stopped by one day when I was listening to the P**k*py tapes, and I just let it play while he was over. My friend said, "HOLD IT -- were they TRIPPING?! I thought I heard someone say something about acid!")

How would the GV box set be an inferior source? Several tracks on TSS (the actual session tracks) are limited to all hell for no apparent reason.

Well I guess it depends on your perspective and how your ears hear things.  For me TSS sound heads and tails better than the GV box.

All of the mixes on the GV box (except for the Cantina H&V) are different from what's on the TSS box, however.

Off the top of my head, there's Carl dropping an F-bomb during the Dum Dum Dum session - the box cuts off the sentence which essentially runs 'we go to the, er, diminished, whatever the f*ck that is"

Mike's infamous 'Someone bring me a dildo' is (understandably) dropped.

Dennis says 'Bullsh*t' during the Children Were Raised session, cut off on the box.

It's not like I have a list of this stuff, it just jars hearing boots you've pored over subtly altered.

So they'll cut out swearing but not the "hash joints" and "feeling the acid" comments?

wat

So what I'm actually sad about them leaving out on the GV disc is the take of the speedy bridge where, whilst experimenting with the harmonica player the whole band kicks in and Brian ends up singing along on the talkback mic. The session's there, just not that part. I love that!

Wasn't Vege-tables on Vigotone an original Brian mix? I always liked how the verses were o/d on that one.

It's a Mark edit of a Brian mix; Mark basically removed the dead air between the segments. The original mix with dead air is on Secret Smile.

Gotcha. This weekend I am going to try to assemble what I can for total completeness without any redundancy in my SMiLE collection of stuff.

I don't remember ever hearing Mike say F*ck on Our Prayer or Carl saying it on Cabinessence. What boot(s) are those from? Can somebody steer me in that direction?

Yeah, the Beach Boys Party has some swearing on there..........but the all time worst is the "Dance, Dance, Dance" vocal session.

Hey, while I'm here, where's the Dennis' isolated Truck Drivin' Man vocals on the new box set?

I'm curious as to why "My Little Red Book" wasn't included on the SMiLE Sessions since that was recorded during that time period.

Because it wasn't recorded during that time period.  It's a "Friends" era recording.

This is a very good question.

Well according to AGD's site, it was.

Well, seeing as AGD was the one who told me it was a Friends-Era recording...

Yeah I remember AGD and a few others mentioning that both that and the "Indian/Italian instrumental" piece are "Friends" outtakes.

So why is Three Blind Mice - from 1965 - considered Smile era?

Not a musical bit, but a graphic one: I don't see the drawing of "Mrs. O'Leary's Cow" anywhere. Which means we're stuck with the less-than-perfect snapshot of it from the web.

Yeah the drawing of "Mrs. O'Leary's Cow" was conspicuous by it's absence.

Now the drawing that is placed right beside the drawing for "Barnyard" in the book, is that supposed to be for "I'm In Great Shape"?

What about "Ball and Mitt"? Never heard of this one before and its not on psychedelic sounds - if you look at the picture of tape boxes in the hardback book, "Ball and Mitt" is written on the side of one of the boxes.

I like the "Hitsville" overdub sessions too.  Anyone know the date for those?

If you are talking about the vocal overdubs onto the verse remake here it is:

HEROES AND VILLAINS

6-13-67 - tracking/vocal session, Brian's home studio

Verse, 1st vocal overdub (stereo) (0:54)
Verse, 2nd vocal overdub (stereo) (0:48)
Verse, 3rd vocal overdub (stereo) (0:50)
Verse, 4th vocal overdub (stereo) (0:49)
Verse, backing vocal overdub (stereo) (0:52)
Verse, organ overdub (stereo) (0:47)
Verse, 5th vocal overdub (stereo) (0:53)
Test edit (stereo) (2:01)
Verse, mono mix (mono) (0:57)
Verse, stereo mix (stereo) (0:59)

Available on Unsurpassed Masters Vol. 17 "Smile Sessions" (Part 1, five vocal overdubs [in longer versions on Heroes and Villains Sessions Part 2], Good Vibrations: Thirty Years of the Beach Boys 5-CD (Part 1, organ overdub), unbooted (mono mix, stereo mix), Heroes and Villains Sessions Part 2 (everything else)

Vocal/instrumental overdubs and rough mixes based on the original October 1966 track sessions.

I think that has some relation to the fact that they didn't use that title for the song on The Smile Sessions. They're just calling it "Fire", or part 1 of "The Elements".

WHERE IS MARILYN'S VOCAL ON "VEGETBALES" AND HER SINGING "I KNOW I KNOW I KNOW I KNOW I KNOW I KNOW I KNOW I KNOW I KNOW I KNOW I KNOW I KNOW I KNOW I KNOW I KNOW I KNOW I KNOW I KNOW I KNOW I KNOW I KNOW"

I was SO hoping Ball and Mit would be a hidden track! Maybe it isn't that interesting listening to Dennis play catch.

Thanks, yes those are the ones (1st-5th vocal overdubs).

So there's obviously some material from SOT 17 and even SOT 16 (Child) that is not on TSS.  And SOT 18, if you want to follow Wind Chimes, Wonderful, Veggies and Speeches/Bald after the end of the SMile sessions.  Then there's the odd track on the GV box set and Hawthorne.  There's also the additional spoken word material on Psychedelic Sounds.

Other than that, is there anything missing from TSS that is available elsewhere in good sound?  I'm excluding things like the muddy mono mix of Child.

There is additional dialogue on some boots, I know some bits were missing when I listened to TSS, but there were just really minor things. There are additional takes of things on Heroes and Villains Sessions Volume 1, but I didn't hear anything substantial, just false starts and failed takes. As far as I can tell, Secret Smile is obsolete.

Was... then I got better info, and changed it. Maybe two years ago.  ;D

Secret SMiLE I believe has a ton of session work for Cabinessence that you can't find anywhere else.  

Lots of sneezing, too.

I also just realized that the "Truck-Drivin' Man" drawing is missing too. Which makes me wanna check my collection and see if any other art is missing...dang...

True, but it mostly repeats itself and what's on TSS.  I think that the only Secret Smile tracks that are really distinct are 17/verse chorus vocal overdub (leads off with the "doing doing" minus the other vocals) and 19/tag vocal overdub (isolated "have you seen the grand coulee" vocals).  Unfortunately, both tracks are very muddy.

I probably wouldn't throw the boots even if all the material were duplicated on TSS. The boots are an artifact of a particular moment when they were the only available sources.

Moreover given that TSS utilizes the boots, they remain key sources, of historical interest in themselves.

In listening again to SOT 17 and comparing it to TSS, I think the following tracks are especially worth keeping:

1-3, 1-6 (Smiley H&V)
2-13, 2-20, 2-21, 2-33, 2-35 (Vegetables)
3-8 (Wind Chimes)
3-10, 3-17 (Fire)
3-24 (Water chant)

Maybe I missed it, but I think the pizzicato string warmup for "My Only Sunshine" isn't on there. Which means I still have just the fairly lousy quality cassette tape version I got years ago from an editor that worked on, I think, the Cinemax "Keepin' the Summer Alive" TV special.

It was a cool little bit--reminds me very much of the beginning of XTC's "River of Orchids", a trickling beginning to something bigger. I used it to start off my own odd "Barnyard Suite" mix once.

AGD -- I just checked out both versions of your site -- ESQ and btinternet -- and they both DO still have 2/14/67 as the recording date for "My Little Red Book." Is there a new location I don't know about???

Not complaining, just wondering...    (please let me wonder... ;)  )
 
...about the "non-Smile" songs, Cool cool water, TTL etc,
why are they on the SMILE sessions album? It's not called
the "'66/'67 sessions album" or such...

...say, had Brian changed his mind in '67/'68 - perhaps CCW
could have been a Smile track? Was it ever considered
a Smile track?

 ???

Well, if you listen to the CCW version 1, you'll hear why.

The box doesn't have in it what I consider the most wonderous music/edit for the entire Smile sessions.  Namely the edit which has the Brian/Mike duet of the first two verses of H&V followed by the barbershop vocals with the H&V backing track.  Magical.  Pure bliss.  Instead the box has the H&V 3rd verse followed by barbershop vocals with the backing track.  Terrific but not as good as the other edit.

Also, I would have had the Brian/Mike duet of H&V's 1st two verse followed by the barbershop/backing track immediately into In the Cantina section.

97 seconds of complete perfection.

And actually, even those Cabinessence vocals mentioned above are isolated on the  Disc 1 vocals montage.

Why, do you like worms? :lol :lol

Which boot is that on specifically

By the way, I'm pretty sure Brian is talking to Danny Hutton here ("Danny, do you have anymore of those hash joints? I know you have."). Dennis is practically standing next to Brian at this point, so there would have been no reason for Brian to raise his voice; Danny Hutton, on the other hand, is probably standing in the control room.

He's not raising his voice, imo. This is next level hairsplitting, isn't it?  :)

Isn't everything here?  ;D

Brian's "hash joints" quote is fairly well-known around these parts and it had been assumed that Brian was talking to Dennis. It struck me when listening to the session on the new set that Brian was actually talking to Hutton - thought that might be of interest.

Wow!  Is that documented anywhere?  I always thought Brian was saying, "Denny, you got any hash joints?" Never heard it was "Danny, you got any hash joints?"

Huh. You learn something every other day here.....

Wonder who it was exactly that he he was talking to when he said, "Can you feel the acid yet?" Not Mike or Al, that's for sure. Or not even Carl.

It actually sounds like it's Carl who responds "I feel good" buried under the other talking.

Embrace the detail!

Actually, translated into Latin, that'd make a swell motto for this board...

:lol

"DENNY, JUST GIVE ME THE F*@KING JOINTS, NOW!!!"

No, "DANNY"!  It's that damn stoner Danny Hutton!  He was one of Bri's main suppliers!

And there's my new signature right there!

That bit sounds good mixed over top of Barnyard too, with a little speed manipulation.

I'm surprised Chuck Negron went down for the count instead of Hutton.

Missing vocals in Smile Sessions 5 CD box set. Complete list

After thoroughly been listening to the CDs and studying the detailed Sessionography in the 60 pages book, I have found that many vocals listed in the Sessionography can not be heard on the CDs.

CD 2
Missing vocals on CD:
4. Heroes And Villains: Barnyard (Master Take) (Wordless vocals: Brian (multi-tracked))
33. Heroes And Villains: Children Were Raised (Remake) (1:06)
All other vocals listed for CD 2 in the Sessionography can be heard on the CD. (And they are many!)
Plus…
Including vocals not mentioned in Sessionography:
9. Heroes And Villains: Mission Pak
18. Heroes And Villains: Verse Edit Experiment

CD 3
Missing vocals on CD:
1. Do You Like Worms: Part 1
2. Do You Like Worms: Part 2 (Bicycle Rider)
3. Do You Like Worms: Part 3
4. Do You Like Worms: Part 4 (Bicycle Rider)
6. My Only Sunshine: Parts 1 & 2 (11/14/66)
8. Cabin Essence: Verse
9. Cabin Essence: Chorus
10. Cabin Essence: Tag
11. Wonderful (Version 1) (8/25/66)
17. Child Is Father Of The Man (Version 2) (10/11/66)
18. Surf’s Up: 1st Movement (11/4/66)
19. Surf’s Up: Talking Horns (11/7/66)
22. Vegetables: Verse (Master Take Track) (4/4 – 4/11/67) (Missing vocal: Lead vocal: Al)

CD 4
Missing vocals on CD:
1. Vegetables: Fade (4/12/67)
5. Wind Chimes (Version 2)
6. Wind Chimes (Version 2 Tag)
11. Love To Say Dada: Part 2 (5/17/67)
12. Love To Say Dada: Part 2 (Master Take) (5/17/67)

CD 5
Missing vocals on CD:
1. Good Vibrations: Gold Star 2/18/66 (The “Pet Sounds” Session)
20. Good Vibrations: Western 9/1/66 (New Bridge)
Including vocals not mentioned in Sessionography:
21. (track not mentioned in Sessionography) Good Vibrations: Session Masters
23. (wrongly numbered 22 in Sessionography) Good Good Good Vibrations (First Version With Overdubs) 3/66 
24. (wrongly numbered 23 in Sessionography) Good Vibrations: Alternate Edit 8/24/66 

Is the Sessionography incorrect? Or…

Have they mistakenly chosen wrong tracks for the box set? (They were probably in a hurry before the release. I doubt that!)

Or, have I got defect CDs? (I doubt that! All CDs are the same. It's digital you know Or?)

Please listen carefully to your CDs and let me know if you really can hear all the vocals listed in the Sessionography. Or are your CDs identical with mine?

If not, my box set must be a collector’s item! (I doubt that!)

I just think the Sessionogrphy is incorrect. Or....

The vocals are represented mostly in the assembled album version (also in particular the Smile Backing Vocal Montage). The listed vocal sessions you are reading on the Sessionography are just for documentation sake not to be meant that they are found on that track.

magical - since you took my advice and posted this question in this thread, I'll provide the two relevant responses which followed this post in the "Smile Sessions Box - Dada" thread...

Aaaaahhh - Sessions Vol 2!!! :D       

No??

I shoudl say, that just because it was recorded, it doesn't mean it was releasable, you know?  Maybe they sounded terrible, and the BB never got around to fixing them?  Maybe that's the case for Look (I remember a vocal session happening)...

Thank you so much for you answers Roger and c-man. They really make sense.