The Smiley Smile Message Board

I just cannot comprehend the mindset of people who call themselves fans, who like me have been waiting years, decades for this day, and who then ignore the towering majesty of the music in this release and bitch about almost irrelevant details. I'm not exactly Pollyanna where the history of the band is concerned, and yes, the box has its problems, but I'm celebrating what has happened without reservations, and also thanking my lucky stars that I'm not as ungrateful as some folk here evidently are. Friday, I was enjoying the early reports but now that glow wasn't faded, it's been tarnished by the petty-minded carpings of those who don't like it that the 'album' proper doesn't follow their chosen roadmap, or choose to listen to the signal and not the music. What is wrong with you people ?  Thankfully, you're far too small a group to have any impact, but imagine how Mark & Alan must feel reading your posts.

Thanks dad.

I love you son. Now eat your broccoli.  :old

Some things just shouldn't be let slide, like making the stereo mixes Vinyl exclusives..

Who's bright idea was that

CRITICISM DETECTED :police:

That was brillant! Vinyl rules! It has always been an important (if overlooked for a time by the general public) medium for those who are deeply into music. Rightly it is still considered by many (who enjoy all different era's) to be a excellent format. Turntables are now plentiful and cheap. Vinyl is back and it's a grand thing. I am only 35 so this isn't really nostalgia for me. Yes I was the last generation to grow up with records but go to the mall now and you will see they are back. Pet Sounds on vinyl is in almost every music store and Smile will be too. People of all ages are going to like this RECORD.

I guess you can't really bitch in this thread and post in the 'Thanks for The SMiLE Sessions (http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,11452.0.html)' thread too can you? I agree Andrew with your sentiments, I feel like you, maybe 'cause I've been waiting patiently for decades and appreciate what we now have. :angel: :angel:

I realize most of us want to bask in the afterglow of listening to the incredible music on this box set, and that's great.  Don't read the complaints or criticisms!  What, with the release of TSS the first amendment has been suspended in it's honor?  Let the bitching begin!

By the way I will be the absolutely last person on this board to actually hear the set, as I'm away on business and won't get home until Wednesday!

Well Andrew I for one loved it & praised the producers for it both here and on facebook via my "James Joyce" review least we forget lol. But isn't that the beauty of this board the fact that no one can please all the people all of the time?. Any bitchin' that goes on here is equally answered positively. And I'm sure Alan & Mark are mature enough to know this. I find it funny to see how narrow minded some people can be and also how lucky we all are to finally have Smile in the shops. Let the Bitchin' carry on but also let's all answer back in a mature way and give praise when praise is deserved :).   

Curious to see the biggest stickler for accuracy and integrity bitching about those who point out errors and mistakes in such a landmark product!

If I was first to drive along a new motorway, and my car grounded on a pothole, I'd bitch.

If I won a night in bed with Rosie Huntington Whiteley and found all was not well in the garden shed, I'd bitch.

If I paid top dollar for a luxurious box set of the greatest music ever made, and found there were careless errors, I'd be heartbroken.

The packaging might be marvellous but it's the cornflakes within I want to digest and if a good number are inedible, darn right I'll let Kelloggs know.

I don't have the box set yet but, given the price tag, I think I'm entitled to expect near-perfection and I'm grateful to those who have drawn attention to perceived flaws so that I can make my mind up.

It might be that I don't hear it -  perhaps my system isn't as sensitive as theirs; perhaps my ears aren't as dog-like – but I respect their right to be disappointed in something that they perceive as not being up to the high standards they were led to expect.

:O :O :O :O :O :O :O :O :O :O :O :O :O :O :O :O

Andrew, on the shows and sessions page for 1968 you have "8 - Dot it Again/Wake The World single released" instead of "8 - Do it Again/Wake The World single released"

Ta muchly. Will be fixed.


Not exactly - my bitch is that these people are focussing almost exclusively on those errors.


It is near perfection - I'm guessing that if you added up all the glitches and assumed errors, they'd totaL maybe 60 seconds, tops, out of some 24,000.

0.0025%, if you prefer.  ;D

"Dot It Again" >>>>>>>>> "Do It Again"

Here's my bitch about the bitchers bitching about bitchers.


So we shouldn't pay attention to these "errors" because they might hurt Mark & Alan's feelings? Well, it could be argued that they should have paid attention to these "errors" because they might hurt us, the customers. Now, I don't know what led to these "errors". I'm not even sure we should refer to these noises as "errors", because they might have been unavoidable (except the speed mistake in the stereo H&V obviously). Until we get an explanation, I won't call them "errors". I want to mention that I'm not talking about the editing of the sections (that's more a matter of taste than a "technical" matter), I'm only talking about noises and speed errors.

The Smile Sessions contain yet-unheard tracks and known tracks in better quality, so for these things alone I'm glad to pay the price. But let's not forget that YOU, AGD, among other people, kept reminding us that the Smile Sessions would make us forget about all our bootlegs, mainly because of the sound quality. Because of this, some people were understandably waiting for a perfect-sounding product - perfect it is not. Hence the bitching.

You, AGD, might not be annoyed by these noises as you might not hear them; over the years, I've learnt not to trust your ears. But that's another issue. The fact is that some people, myself included, can hear them without even trying. "But it's only 0.0025%!" you might say. No it isn't. The reported errors are all on the 2-CD set, you know, the one the general public is going to buy, and the only one some of us will unfortunately be able to afford. Besides, the noises are on important tracks. I'll hopefully be able to correct the high-pitched noise in Dada, but I won't be able to erase the noise in the only mono version of Cabinessence we have.

So, just to be clear, I love the Smile Sessions, I love the music, I haven't really commented on it yet because I only have the 2-CD set and I'm waiting for my boxset to arrive (which could make it look like I'm focussing almost exclusively on those errors), so props to Mark & Alan for this work, but it appears there are some disturbing noises that - according to some posters who know this stuff better than I do - could have been fixed, and we have the RIGHT to bitch about them on this board.

I don't need your patronizing.

OK, then let's wait for the deluge of complaints to Capitol and amazon from Joe Q. Public and the massed returns to local retailers. I'm sure it'll be a thread on the Hoff board - who knows, might even make USA Today.  We'll see. ;D

My point is not to ignore the alleged errors, but rather to have presented them in context, and less unfavourably. Say "thanks" first, then "however, this bothers me...". Simple good manners (yes, I know you probably have the opinion that good manners and I are complete strangers: I read about them in a book).

I'd go further and suggest that a thread called "a bitch about the bitchers" is not only likely to, but inevitably going to, turn into "a bitch about the bitchers bitching about bitchers" and then a "bitch about the bitchers bitching about the bitchers' bitching by the bitchers" and so on...

The big - and understandable - call from AGD and others is fundamentally "let's not sweat the small stuff". I can't see (the net being what it is) a thread like this leading to that result.

There's already a thread dedicated to discussing the alleged and apparent flaws in the 2-disc set, and a whole board devoted to discussing and praising that work. I can see no problem with either. I know I'm just a newbie here as a poster, but I've been reading for years, so I'm sorry if I'm stepping out of line. But a little respect either way is a useful thing in any society; and a society, in its strange little way, this definitely is.

This release - this week, this month - should be a time for both celebration and the heated debate that inevitably comes from people discussing the things they love. Can't we do both and avoid losing the issue in an endless string of call-outs, responses and... er... posts like this?

... and then we'll have world peace.

Way to ignore the rest of my points. Shame on me for actually expecting something other than one of your lame "sarcastic" replies - I should have known better.  ::)

He knows me too well.

I wonder if Mark will address the issues here on this board? I've seen him post at Hoffman, even answering my post regarding YSBIM on Pet Sounds. I'm kind of surprised that he hasn't popped up here, but then again maybe not...

I thank my lucky stars that I am not inflicted/afflicted wiith great hearing. I have not heard these sound issues that have been brought up, only the iTunes blips. Honestly, I expected there to be some sound issues, as not everything used would be in pristine condition.

'Say Thanks first'?

I paid them top dollar, which should say enough. I'm eternally grateful for the work Brian, the boys, the writers who kept the dream alive and all the engineers, producers and managers who made this boxset possible. But even people that did amazing work can make mistakes, and even big mistakes. Taste should be left out of this, but for instance sending a wrong master to the pressing plant is a mistake. Not saying that this is the case...but where are those backing vocals in Barnyard!!!!

Working on the "Barnyard" item: I'm guessing the review streams didn't use the production masters. BTW, I should point out that my comments re: the errors are based on hearing the 5CD version, not the 2CD set although, given the exact same tapes and masters have been used, that shouldn't make any difference to anything.

Sounds like you're saying the 2CD set doesn't matter and that the public won't know better.

I agree that thanks are due… this is an unprecedented event in BBs and rock/pop history and all praise and glory to those who have brought it about.

But it reminds me of the cartoon about the British couple in a restaurant, muttering under their breath about some problem with their meal. Of course, when the waiter comes to ask if everything is okay, they reply, "Oh yes, lovely, thank you very much."

Now, where IS that box… harrumph!

Maybe this would have gone better if monicker had just brought up the issues, asked a question and waited for a reply from Mark and/or Alan (since they do read and post here) before going on a diatribe and literally pitching a bitch and writing a paper, etc, etc, etc.. There is a serious lack of respect and decorum here. Give the guys a chance to respond. Shoot, it's only been officially released for one day, and only hours here in the U.S.. Patience.

No, I'm saying that Joe Q. Public, his wife, family, girlfriend and dog almost certainly won't notice anything amiss... 'cause they're listening to the music, not the engineering and processing.  :)

On another thread someone pointed out on Cabinessence there is a bit of noise at 1.01 and
 that it wasn't good enough for Boyd and Linett to let some thing like that get on the box set.
While there IS  a bit of static that is BARELY audible ,If someone hadn't have mentioned it I
would never have noticed it.
Pedantic beyond comprehension!

Where were all these people in 1970 when the Beach Boys dared release the "Cotton Fields" single with all those glitches in the second chorus?

Best answer for everyone might be if Someone Who Knows Someone Who Should Know asks him/her/them what they know! ;D

That's pre-internet. Everything was in black and white (or sepia) back then, and doesn't count.

Sorry mate - that's a bit patronizing to Joe Public, as a listening experience the engineering/processing is a fundamental element of helping make the actual listening an all encompassing experience, hence comparing a bootleg to an officially released item in this instance

you cant be so dismissive of what good engineering and processing brings to the table - by listening to the music your also listening to the skills in the engineering and producing of that music too, as well as the performance instrumentation and writing of the music. its a complete package all together, poor engineering/editing/producing/performing/arranging/instrumentation can totally pull back some release's from being spectacular listening experiences to ok or even poor ones.

I'll be honest - i aboslutly LOVE and enjoy whats come out and am very thankful it has done, it is though a bit of a shame to hear all this fantastic music and enormous effort in bringin this out with a few 'noticeable glitches' protool cross-fade pops - i take your point theres not many there, but i have to agree there's enough to get irritated by them which is a shame, it interrupts the listening experience with the music a little which is a shame - either way it's a great effort but a shame this hadn't been spotted and nip n ticked before

its a vaild point - great effort, theres some sound glitch's but DESPITE these smatterings encountered the music and production in getting these out is incredible, just a shame the pops n glitch's (however few there are) unnecessarily bring it back that tiny bit

peace and love

There's this one album, the name is fleeting me right now, but there is talking and hissing peppered throughout the entire album. I can't believe they released it like they did. Oh yeah, it was called Pet Sounds.

Relatively speaking we are incredibly lucky to be hearing this set. We have room to criticize, obviously, but I wish some people would put a few hisses and pops in perspective.

***** turn on CBS right now!!!!!!! *******

^false alarm, stupid promo. But the SMiLE segment is coming up soon!

I don't really think Joe Public will be able to enjoy IIGS - Barnyard - CIFOTM. As much as I love mono (it really was necessary for all the Beatles albums), I don't think it's the best way to release an album aimed at Joe Public. Of course it sounds great to us, because all we had before sounded worse. I have a friend who loves music, it's been years since I talk to her about how great SMiLE is and now she's bought it, I really think she'll be disappointed, because Child does sound kida bad, lots of distortion sounds on the second chorus. I got over it because of the beautiful new vocal line, but again, Joe Public doesn't know that this part has just been found and will concentrate on the audio quality of the song. Though I assume that if Mark & Alan put it on the set it's because there was noting better that could be done and they've done an outstanding job and I thank them for that. But Joe Public doens't know that he'll expect an album that sounds like a 1967 album should sound. But, what the hey, my box arrives on Friday and I can't wait.

FFS, it's 2011, not 1966, and this project has been in the works for a decade or two, it hasn't been rushed out like PS was.

Do you get your milk unpasteurised? Would it be okay if you did? Will you be scratching your CDs tonight for added authenticity?  Thought not…

The science has moved on.

Unfortunately my box set hasn't… maybe my tone will change when it lands…

Harrumph!

wasnt the first mix of pet sounds rejected due to its quality of mix, it was done again and was released as is?
anyhow - its a dif point, that wasa finished album, the technical glitchs mentioned here aint the same type as talking etc you mention on pet sounds

getting abit extreme in views on here for both sides i think
anyone saying TSS sounds bad or unlistenable due to glitches needs their heads testing, it sounds Amazing!!
however i'll qualify that by adding, had the glitches been removed/reduced with no impairment to the sound - then it'd been faultless sonically considering its an unfinished album - great production, but some glitches have slipped through unexpectedly

I'm happy to have anything officially release let alone a jam packed box set. Be grateful we have anything at all.

I'm merely saying that had we just been handed the music (without knowing how much time was put into what - who mixed what, etc) we'd probably bitch more about Pet Sounds than the new SMiLE mix.

But because we're 'in the know' we get a ticket to bitch about it. I'm in full agreement that we have the right to criticize, however put these critiques into perspective; it is still an amazing acheivement.

No dispute. Wish I could buy those fellas a pint and say "thanks thanks thanks…!"

Agreed that we should be VERY thankful for this release. A lot of work went into it.
Also agreed that criticisms are allowed. It's a product for sale, we're spending money on it, and the BBs are going to make money from it. We as consumers have a right to say what we like and dislike about it.
Let's all remember that this is the Beach Boys. So if you don't like this version, another one will be along in short order, and it'll be SLIGHTLY different. Diehards who already have 1000000000 versions of Pet Sounds will buy Smile Sessions 2.0 and find a whole new slew of things wrong with it.  :-D

Do we now know the identity of Andrew's favorite vege-table? An historic day, indeed.

I just posted this on the Barnyard thread, but it really belongs here:



But I don't enjoy listening to music through headphones.  I listen to music through my big, old Marantz speakers.  And I'm not deaf.  I listened closely and I could barely notice some (but not even close to all...I gave up) of the things that you pointed out as flaws.  And that was with the volume at a higher level than I ever listen to music.  I'm not going to tell you how you should listen to music.  You do your thing, but don't try to tell me how to enjoy listening to music.  I'm sorry that you can not enjoy this disc because of all the hiss, snap, crackle, and pop.  Seriously.  I think it's sublime.  This incredible music has never sounded better...to me.  And that's all that matters...to me.

Oh, and for those that are now worried about this release because of the perceived flaws pointed out by some folks here, I say again...listen for yourselves.  I mean listen to the music.  It really is beautiful.  As you can see by some of the responses here, there are people who either don't notice any flaws, or think them to be so minor that they don't care.  Enjoy.....or not.  Your choice.

P.S.  And I'm not bitching about the bitchers...everyone is going to have an opinion.  I'm just sayin' that it appears to me that there are more folks who don't hear (or don't care about) any flaws, than there are folks who do.  Not that it matters.    

I'll direct my bitching at Amazon for now. I ordered the box set fairly early, and it's due for delivery around 11/4. Not fair!  They always do this to me.

what delivery did you choose.  I ordered mine a couple months after it showed up but i chose 2 day/same day delivery and it arrives today.  I've never had a problem with them

I don't disagree with you, but the issues being referred to here are largely ones of mastering, not mixing -- and spotty mastering is much trickier to hear than spotty mixing. So it's not totally unfair to say it won't tamper Joe Public's experience. Heck, I knew where to look and when I was listening, I didn't pay enough attention to notice.


Yeah. The point isn't, "Don't criticize the box set." It's more like, "Keep it in perspective, and know when it's time for you to go outside for a little while."


True that.

Who's hearing more: the person on professional studio headphones only irritated by pops, or the person emotionally resonating with it over laptop speakers?

I chose standard delivery, which was free with my (much more than) $25 purchase, so I guess I shouldn't complain. I guess they probably aren't allowed to ship until right before release day. Still, I was hoping to have it maybe on 11/2. Maybe it'll come earlier than their estimate.

I chose standard and mine is supposed to arrive on the 4th as well....normally Amazon is cautious when giving estimates - my orders normally arrive 2 days after being shipped (or 2-3 days before estimated arrival).

I didn't read all of this, but I'd just like to say that I'm so tired of hearing all this talk about the delicate sensibilities  of a theoretical construct known as "Joe Public". Either you get the music and like it or you don't, and a little distortion on a few tracks isn't going to make or break it. And this isn't going to catch on like wildfire with the Jimmy Buffett/Kokomo crowd, OK? You might as well disavail yourselves of that notion and be glad the set was aimed at presenting as complete and listenable a Smile as possible rather than, "What would Joe the Plumber think of this segment? It's a little less smooth... let's chuck it out". That kind of commercial anxiety was at least partly the reason why this music was never released in the first place.

The SMiLE album has brought me pure joy, so i am not bitching. :)

Absolutely! SMiLE DAY is a NO BITCH Day.

Part of the problem, I think, is that this release doesn't have much in the way of new material. There's a few new vocal snippets and "Surf's Up" 1967, but other than that, almost all this material was already available in one way or another. Consequently, I've already heard it all a bazillion times.  That's why the little mistakes are so noticeable. I'm straining my ears to try and hear what's new.

I've even said several times that the mastering job on this album is superb. There's just weird mistakes you wouldn't expect on $100+ archival release, and there's nothing wrong with pointing that out. This is the Smiley Smile board, and we specialize in pedantry.

I get that Mark is your friend, so you want to defend him.  But this ain't Mark's blueboard.

Oh yeah, and one last thing... AGD: have you ever stopped to think how you make Jasper Dailey's family feel? That was his big shot and you've torn it to shreds.

Andrew says wait until the box is released, THEN you can criticize it.

SMiLE is released.

Anyone with criticisms is being ungrateful.

Starts thread complaining about it.

:smokin

I'd love to write/compile a book of all the complaining about every Beach Boys-related release that happened since, oh, the dawn of the online Beach Boys fan community.

I'm sure that'd be a real page-turner. You could call it "Fake Harpsichord."

Some of you guys must have the ears of a bat!!! This sounds amazing as I'm listening to it, it could have been recorded yesterday!!

I just lost enthusiasm over the years and have heard the bootlegs too much.  I'm sure I'd be happy with it if I could somehow justify parting with the money to buy it.  I might buy the two disc set some time in the near future.  I'd love to have the booklets and whatnot in the boxed set.  I can't complain about something I'm not prepared to pay that much money to own, at least at this point.  Other than I wish they'd have released it years earlier, but people say the technology didn't exist to put it together that well years ago.  So maybe I can't complain?

What is this suppose to be, the blueboard?  :lol  ;)

I completely agree with you Andrew. 

Grow some balls, your opinion is just as valid as anybody else's on this board, regardless of if you just came in on the last truck or not.  Don't let people intimidate you. 

BTW, if there's background vocals missing in the 2cd set, doesn't that actually please the elite who spent too much money and bought the 5cd set?  What are you bitching about.  You got yours.  Is there a contract somewhere that says the first set of tracks on the 2cd set are the same as the first set of tracks on the 5 cd set?  Of course not.  Maybe they did it on purpose. 

Exactly.  Brian was SLOPPY AS sh*t in the studio, so to hear that this album is sloppy (according to the pedantic, good word whoever used that above!)... to hear that the album is sloppy means Brian must have had something to do with it. 

Damn.  Bitch much?  Why did you even buy it?  ITS OLD.  ITS FUCKING 50 YEARS OLD.  Hell take it back. 

Wow - I believe the content of my post was that people should show a little respect either way on the issue of any glitches on the set. Comments like "Grow some balls," though I thank you for the medical opinion, is exactly the kind of unpleasant and condescending remark I was talking about.

On the other hand, by refusing to be intimidated by it, I'm following your advice, so I guess it's still a win.

I didn't want to get dragged into this kind of stuff - I've tried to keep my posts fair, impersonal, constructive and polite - but if this is the way it's going I'm happy enough just to read for a bit.

EDIT: Oh, and one more thing: the missing vocals are on Disc 2 of the Box Set - "Barnyard Master Take" - not a track replicated on the 2-Disc Set. While we're giving constructive personal advice, what about actually trying to find out what's being discussed before weighing in? You'll save yourself and everybody else some time that way.

It's not a problem with their ears.  It's a problem with their minds.  You have the same exact ears they have, as do I.  They just have f***ed up expectations about what an unreleased album from 50 years ago that was never completed, recordeded half-assed, and then largely abused and lost should sound like.  They're pissed that their little downloaded version of pro-tools that they used a hacked serial code for, gave them a slightly different sound when they mashed their bootlegs together, than what Mark pulled off with Brian's approval using the original cells Brian dripped sweat and blood on. 

Faulty comparison....Pet Sounds (and pretty much ALL Beach Boys albums between 1965 and 1967) were mixed in kind of a hurry (which, I believe, is the REAL reason stereo mixes weren't made back in the day), which could explain the stuff during the "Here Today" break and the "She made me feel so bad -- whoops!" from same, the tape rewinding at the beginning of "I Just Wasn't Made For These Times," the tape glitches (that just so happen to be in PERFECT TEMPO so I thought they were drumstick taps) in "Let's Go Away For Awhile," and the double-tracking error on the single version of "Wouldn't It Be Nice."

But as with The Smile Sessions, I didn't hear the aforementioned errors without someone pointing 'em out to me (except for the tape rewind in IJWMFTT), and what I THOUGHT was a legitimate count-in tap is apparently tape glitches...

However -- and I am NOT bitching, just alluding to what was mentioned before (as I haven't noticed any problems, and I'm pretty dog-eared with perfect pitch) -- if what people ARE bitching about happen to be real, honest-to-gosh production mistakes during the making of this set and not beyond their control, well....they had 45 years to get it right. :)

wat

Conspiracy- Any errors were left on purpose so Capitol can charge us for a "Remastered" version 5 years from now.... Just Sayin'

I've so far listened to discs 1 and 2 of the 2-cd set.

Then disc 3 of the box set, the two 7" singles, disc 4 of the box set, and all four sides of the vinyl LP.

All I can think of saying is:  :)

I've heard nothing to object to.  And if I need headphones to hear these things, then I don't care.
I can't stand mono on headphones anyway.

Wait! So, is the double vinyl set in stereo????

Only side 4 - the rest are mono.

It's unfortunate that some people will get away with this sort of ignorance.

wierd the emotions in here tidied into 1st listens everyone's been getting

This is an incredible release, the music and general ambiance given is pretty magical.
It's definitely a great listening experience, but... like some people on here, i too can hear some glitches here and there
which is a shame, to qualify that comment tho, its not a massive ball breaker, and doesn't ruin the listening experience
its just unfortunate i can hear them a little, that's all really.

i think some people are going alittle emtional/OTT on whether its there or not, and if it ruins the listening or it or not. it's there, some notice it, but it's still a mega release! ideally the little blemish's wouldnt be as audible to peoplewith bat ears like myself  but its a minor minor thing for me,

i've just got the 2cd version, however have seen the clips of the boxset and all that and it looks an incredible piece of work.

interested to sample some hi quality home rolled in the coming months, is purple chick's SMiLE obsolete now?

Here I was thinking that the only thing  I had to bitch about was that I wasn't going to see the pre-ordered box from Amazon for a few more days....then the doorbell rang.

NO COMPLAINTS. IT'S HERE! 

What 'get away' with an opinion?

Welcome to the Internet, AGD.

I really hate audiophiles.

Oh, OK, I have a bitch: my US version is from Nuevo Laredo!  Hecho en Mexico. I thought this was America's band and it was California all the way! I'm sending it back.  Not....though I am surprised.

Thanks.  ;D