The Smiley Smile Message Board

Pirate Rap

wouldn't it be funny if they unearthed a lost reel of Mike singing the pirate rap? I know it didn't get written til the BWPS sessions, but Mike's voice would be perfect/hilarious on it. we already know what his megaphone voice sounds like from Student Demonstration Time.

So awesome to hear the clarity of this. Still has that "old" whimsical feel as well.

My god, that ending  :o

I'm surprised they didn't attempt to fly in the Plymouth rock vocals during the chorus. Or maybe they tried, but they couldn't get it to work. It'd be an interesting experiment.

Brian playing it on the piano and singing an original melody? Sick! You can't hear much though

Edit: wow, I actually heard the melody now. It's really cool!

I can hear the melody too. Very nice. Only the second half of the chorus, though.

different chords i think, wouldn't fit in key either

I've finally come around to the Whispering Winds vocals. I've always thought pitch-shifting this part made it sound like they were singing with cotton balls in their mouth, but something clicked and I'm really enjoying this track today, so I'm happy for that.

I'm surprised they didn't use the first version on UM 18 (track 14) like BWPS. Anyone here ever tried syncing that?

I guess there were no actual lyrics intended for this song until BWPS?  That is one of my favorite parts from BWPS.
WELL, I guess they are all favorite parts......just this one came up w/o lyrics here.  Still, there are more lyrics included/flown in than I had imagined before the release.

The "Whisperin' Winds" vocal tacked on and manipulated to all hell should not have been on an official mix of the song. That's not on principal, it just sounds awful and there is no way for it to not sound awful considering it's in an entirely different key.

It probably is that vocal, just comically slowed down.

Just listened to it, it was one of my fave moments on smile, they just killed it...they should have flown in the harpsichord bit with the vocals and get rid of the marimba backing track for this particular bit.

I'm pretty sure they used the wrong vocals. Check it: http://youtu.be/c-fVFwpXNm4. The first part is what they used on TSS, the second was used on BWPS.

Probably wouldn't have sounded good, but maybe better.

I've actually took 30 minutes and a couple of tracks to re-do this tag with cubase, added a little time correction for the harpsichord part and added a little reverb and EQ, it sounds pretty cool to me and there's a lot of chance I'll use it when I'll do my own mix. Feel free to PM

OK, i know this is gonna be somewhat controversial, but how many of you spotted vocals that are VERY new to some of these tracks ? .. by NEW, i don't mean previously unheard 60's vocals, i means vocals that have been added/overdubbed within the last 18 months by (suspected) Brian's great touring band.

Check out the "wind chimes fade on track 15 for just one of many examples !

Ummm....I'm not so sure about that.

What you're hearing is pitch shifting, not a new recording.  If they were going to do that, why stop there?  Why not add some lead vocals and more backgrounds while they were at it?  It just doesn't add up.

Or why not be in denial about the possibility of new vocals being added ?

Is the current thinking that "Holidays" is a track in it's own right- or a section of another song ?

It's not on Brian's original Smile track list ?

There is speculation on the Worms thread that a session exists where he is apparently singing Worms vocals from the control booth (not sure there this is, can anyone tell me ?)

There is also the "Whispering winds" melody present in the 2011 reslease which makes me wonder if Holidays is a wind chimes session ?

Anyone know ????

Hi lunarjetman,

The following link begins with the clip from the "holidays" rehearsal in question. It's Brian demonstrating the rhythm on a piano, and though it's very indistinct my initial reaction was to hear "Waving Indians behind 'em..." (the full madness is contained on the "Worms" thread).

http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/2/20/800088//holidaysvocaldemonstration.mp3

You'll need to listen close to hear it, but if it helps the word to listen out for is "Iiindians" (the first syllable is emphasised). Be interested to know what you think.

(Oh, and weird little piece of SMiLE coincidence... on the famous Capital tracklist, DYLW worms actually heads into Wind Chimes, so maybe there was a transistion planned there from the beginning...?)

Those chords sound like Love To Say Da Da

Thank you.

I can't hear it on my first few listens (but then again I don't have headphones).

Are there any clever people out there who can amplify his voice and filter down the piano somehow ?? It could be quite a discovery if what you think he is singing turns out to be correct.

What is the source of this track ? Not sure I have ever heard it before ? Ok.. I know where it's from now !

Aside from the brief vocal bit, that rehearsal routine pretty much proves "Whispering Winds" was part of the song back then, no?  Brian plays that vocal melody on piano, just like you hear on the SOT vol. 18 box.

Here's a stereo mix I did with vocals from track 14 on UM 18. Not too shabby.

http://www.fileden.com/files/2008/4/2/1848930/Holidays.mp3

I would have thought so, and as the lyrics (on Smiley Smile at least) mention "Wind Chimes" then you might assume that Holidays and Wind Chimes are components of the same track ??? But who knows. 

Has anyone edited together a good Holidays that does not have the vocals at all?  The cross-fade into Wind Chimes makes it more complicated, but I assume this isn't too difficult with the session track being available.

I made a mono mix with the fade out from the sessions disc, folded down and faded out. And also a stereo version, edited out the sessions track, with a fade out. I'll make a disc full of this sort of mixes and will post it here later.

I'd love to hear that!

It's finally great to be able to hear this track with good quality sound, but despite how much  I love Smile I must confess I don't really think much of Holidays at all. It just seems unmemorable and generic to me. I'd like to think that with vocals (not the BWPS version), my mind would be completely changed, but we'll never know. I've tried mashing it up with DYLW, but never to any satisfactory result. For me, it just doesn't rise to the level of the rest of the material- even the other unfinished stuff like CIFOTM. Anyone else share my opinion of this track?

Yeah, totally generic. Everyone can write something as good as "Holidays".

OWAIT.

Perhaps, but it would still be a lot better without the Whispering Winds "vocals," which don't exist anywhere in nature.

Unfortunately, the fly-in corrupts both Holidays and Wind Chimes.  Has anyone managed to reconstruct these in mono?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=siW43SXk2Ac&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=siW43SXk2Ac&feature=related)

I understand what you're saying -- it's frustrating to see the amount of bitching over this product.  Check the Hoffman board, where things have degenerated into almost complete negativity.

But I've generally avoided it myself, because I think TSS is amazingly well-done.  Whispering Winds is my main beef, followed by the woo-woos after Worms.

It wasn't directed at you. I just recalled the scene and was looking desperately for any place to put it!

Holidays is a) remarkably similar to Dada in terms of chords, if you're being some kind of arsehole and dismissing it on purist grounds, and b) a masterpiece of arrangement. You can't f*ck with it.

I took a listen to this again yesterday. I've probably been influenced by the news concerning Frank Holmes' "Holidays" illustration, but I'm now thinking that the bit of lyric Brian is singing is "...and Liliuola Kalani will sing to me".

I'm assuming you mean Queen Liliuokalani, the last monarch of Hawaii.  Was deposed by a U.S.-backed coup led by business interests.  She was also a well-known songwriter.

Of course - sorry about the misspelling, by the way. She is represented in Frank Holmes' illustration for the song and Mr. Holmes' claims he based the illustration (completed in 1996) on lyrics provided to him by Mr. Parks. Brian is definitely singing something in the background during the '66 session highlights...it could very well be this line.

Funny, I either missed or forgot about the illustration, but I hear plenty about Queen Liliuokalani, since I live in Honolulu.  Of course, Parks didn't live in Hawaii, so it's interesting that his lyrics reflected it to this degree.

I'm not that tech savvy, so I usually don't edit tracks myself. However, like monicker said when TSS were first released, there are a number of digital artifacts on this track, mostly annoying popping and clicking. I can hear these things especially well during the "Whispering Winds" vocals at the end.

I actually like the fly ins on this track. The Whispering Winds section was one of my favorite bits from BWPS. I may be in the minority, but I do like them here as well. However, I could do without all the clicks and pops. They are particularly audible at 2:18 and 2:24. Has anyone done a version of this track in mono, with the Whispering Winds vocals, but without the clicks?

I can't really hear the clicks. and I like the whispering winds vocals in BWPS. but on TSS they're pitch-shifted and don't sound very nice. I don't mind any of the other fly-ins.

I love disc one; pretty much the entire album approximation. It all sounds beautiful to me. Love the fly-ins. But I do hear a few clicks in Holidays and a hiss in the chorus of Cabin Essence. :-\ I know in the Cabin Essence thread people have spotted the hiss. Maybe the clicks on Holidays are just on my copy.

"Indian wisdom..."

Well? Am I right or am I right?

huh

Any luck cracking this nut? Can the audio genius do any sort of isoation on what Brian is singing?

Oh, so you think Brian is singing "Indian Wisdom..."?

The last couple of times I listened to the "Holidays" sessions, it still sounded like "...Liliuokalani will sing to me...".

Since Frank Holmes has said he based the "Holidays" illustration on lyrics Van Dyke gave him (probably in '66 along with the other lyrics he received then), it's not too much of a stretch to assume some of the BWPS' "On A Holiday" lyrics were vintage '66 work. Holmes said he returned all of the lyric sheets in 2003, in time for them to be reviewed by Van Dyke and Brian as they prepared BWPS.

I dunno. I'm pretty sure I hear the word "indian"...maybe even twice.

"NUH LIVE IN AN INDIAN MOW MOW...

NUH INDIAN WISDOM!"

Since this is the "chorus" I'm not sure the BWPS format quite adds up.

Random thought here, but I always thought Al Jardine would be a great vocalist for this song. I remember seeing an article linked to on Wikipedia where Van Dyke claimed that the lyrics to this song are vintage 1966, but that they were never recorded. The article has since disappeared though, and a quick Google search hasn't brought up anything.

According to Frank Holmes, the lyrics for Holidays were given to him in 1966.

http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,11738.0.html (http://smileysmile.net/board/index.php/topic,11738.0.html)

Thanks, never saw that before. I sure wish I could find that old Van Dyke Parks interview though, but I guess it's not important.

It would give more credibility to Holmes' statement....not that credibility is needed however. I too would like to see that interview. I hope someone here can dig it up.
_____

And vocally, I would give anything to hear what vintage vocals would sound like on Holidays (cue dmcguire for a cover :-D).

One thing that ticks me off about this track (from TSS) is that damn coda. I know it's been discussed here before, but does anyone know why it sounds the way it does?

Perhaps what you're referring to is the pitch shifted vocals(slowed down)?

Yes, and I find it incredibly irritating. JMZ (fellow member here) did a phenomenal mix of that ending, and other 'roll your own' mixes have had similar success in making a good sounding coda.

That's really my only criticism of the set. It just doesn't sound good at all, imo.

The other day singing the BWPS lyrics to the TSS version I thought it would be perfect for Mike's range - and voice. (Not mine, anyway :-D)

Hmmm no mention of the fact that during the sessions Brian refers to what is the verse from BWPS as the chorus.

see: Reply #47

I noted this and used it to question the idea that the BWPS lyrical format was vintage.

Whatever it is Brian's singing in the background, it ain't no "rock rock rolll....."

Where are the technololgical wizards who can isolate this audio so we can hear what Brian is singing? You've had 7 months, let get cracking!

Still waiting for one of your technical geniuses to isolate Brian's singing as he pounds away at the piano. WE NEED TO KNOW THIS!!!

An opinion:

I think the lyrics on BWPS must be a rewrite of original lyrics. Looking at Frank Holmes' 1996 drawing, there are clear references to Hawaii (the girl, Lady Lili, a picture of Diamond Head), tourism (the plane and hotel, new holiday apartments, surfing), a shanty town and a ukulele. There's also the Moon (strangely black), an unknown ship's captain, an anchor, alcohol and the obvious milky way reference.

There's nothing in these references that suggests pirates particularly so I think that, as someone else was saying, the 'pirate with a tune' aspect may be a recent joke about pirated recordings. However, if, say, the first line of 'On a Holiday', was changed to 'The captain of a ship on a holiday' or somesuch, then it might be possible to see how those lyrics might have been changed to reflect a new sentiment.

Either way, the original song appears to be about Hawaii and it's rise to prominence as a US tourist destination, accelerated after 1959. As such it's part of the general history of the US theme running through half of the album.

Apart from that, the fragment of tune on the 'Holidays' session certainly doesn't match the tune on BWPS, which maybe suggests that the original tune is lost. This is backed up by the fact that Brian Wilson simply sings the backing melody, something that he almost never did back in the day. So I'd guess the 'rap' section, if any part of it is original, would have been sung originally too.

And for my penny's worth, those scarcely audible lyrics scan poetically like 'we're digging an inStant Town', although I very much doubt that's what they are. Unfortunately, only a couple of the consonants (capitalised) can be caught with any confidence.

Oh, and another thing, since no-one's out there and I'm talking to myself. I think the Frank Holmes picture (top right) includes a reference to the sea shanty (chanty) 'What Do We Do With the Drunken Sailor'.

One day the world will return to this thread. Until then I shall be buried at Avalon.

Just to throw a bit of a wrench in here: Frank Holmes stated recently that the date on the Holidays drawing was a "mistake" and that there were "no lyrics" provided to him from Brian or Parks in 1966.

And with that, just about anything worth pondering regarding this song vanishes.


You saying CIFOTM doesn't sound good? >:D
I wouldnt go so far as to call it generic or unmemorable. On any other album it'd be a highlight. But this is SMiLE. And I agree it doesn't match the standards set by the other songs. That, and I think if any song from the Sessions was set for the chopping block, it was this. Look too perhaps, but at least that had vocals recorded. This didnt. That ought to say something, I'd think.



Honestly, the vocal coda never bothered me personally but I could see how it would ruin it for others. I think they really dropped the ball by trying to force the BWPS mold onto these songs. Not every track from the Era had to be on the reconstructed SMiLE. Do what you can with the songs that have enough material to work with to warrant tinkering around, but stuff like Look, Holidays and Dada probably would not have even been on the album. Include them in the sessions discs, make sure there's a usable master take that we can still listen to and then leave them alone as the unfinished, unfinishable, most likely abandoned curiosities they are. Not every transition from BWPS, much less every track, had to be on Disc 1.

/rant.

It's been three years. Has anyone got the technology to crack this Da Vinci code yet?

Long time since I posted here, but you perfectly describe the feelings I have, more than 4 years after the release of TSS. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love the box and it's content, I couldn't live without it, but there some decisions/ommisions that keep getting me.

I understand that there are some editing choices not everyone may hear or may care about, but when you're a person that hears such things they can be annoying. Just things like uneven noise reduction, crossfadeing of small sections when a hard cut would have worked much better (an extreme is the Bicycle Rider into the Hawaiian Chant). Or the strange editing of the beginning section of TOMP from another take, which gives the track a musically, rhythmically different feeling than the final master take with the vocals. Or the editing in the CIFOTM chorus, which results cutting in the last high aaah's background vocals. Or the fly-ins in Surf's Up, which are, whatever anyone may say or hear, definitely off, or at least clearly different from the singing in the original demo (musically/rhythmically).

Then there are the ommissions that you speak of, and only including the BWPS-mimicking tracks on disc 1 which leaves us with an incomplete picture of the history and the music of the album. Where's Barnyard with backing vocals, LTSD and Fire without the fly-ins, I Wanna Be Around, Vega-Tables, TOMP and LTSD without crossfades, Wind Chimes, CIFOTM and DYLW in its original 1966 form?

Luckily I reconstructed most of these tracks myself or with the help from fan mixes, but it could have been so easy to release this material anyway. And that's still possible, but it's just not happening.

Well, let's spin some great Smile music and enjoy what we actually have, which is an awful lot of brilliant music.
Paul

Glad at least one person agrees. Seems like a lot of people here take the view that BWPS is the way Brian wants it, so thats the way it has to be even on TSS. I disagree, I see them as separate projects, but whatever. Im mostly just annoyed by the outtakes. Im sure Im the only one, but I would have wanted more Psychedelic Sounds and isolations (particularly Truck Driving Man and Pretty Baby Wont You Rock With Me Henry). I think the former provides valuable insight into the project often overlooked or taken for granted. The Breathing and Undersea skits almost certainly represent working ideas for Air and Water. The Taxi Cab skit is definitely a humorous way to work in the idea of a journey across America, and by mentioning Chicago, it ties in The Elements (a track that otherwise doesnt truly fit in anywhere) in with Americana. They didnt even give us enough of the Veggie Fight to be able to stitch together a full, believable conversation. Very lame. There's plenty of takes of songs that were left off that warranted inclusion--especially CIFOTM material. And if Three Blind Mice and Cool Cool Water get a slot, why not Cant Wait Too Long and the Untitled Instrumental spanish guitar? This last one isnt as important, but I think some Smiley sessions ought to have been included too. That was what the album grew into, and while totally different, it was also totally similar. It represents working ideas and Brian's thought processes just as much as all the Heroes single sessions. More so, in fact. And when you take Smiley and its weird offbeat funny moments, suddenly the Psychedelic Sounds take on a whole new importance.

Brian was in his peak at arranging, but not at writing in SMiLE. This obscure Holidays melody is just another evidence. Although it fits perfectly, the melodic line is the same from "you never need to doubt it... I'll make you so sure", just adjusting with the new harmony. There's a lot of repeating stuff in SMiLE, and I see it as mistakes, not cohesion

Interesting point. But, do you mean repeating as in repeating earlier stuff, or repeating within SMiLE itself? Because personally, I think the whole repeating themes in BWPS and most people's interpretations of the album are anachronistic. Repeating musical themes like the Worms and H&V choruses probably wouldnt have appeared on the finished album together, etc.

Cabin Essence, Vega-Tables, The Old Master Painter and Windchimes all have that same two chord chorus. And all of these songs were printed in the back cover.
One example of repeating melodies is Cabinessence's doing doings and Wonderful. Or those three phrase-ending notes he'd been using since Pet Sounds in GV's "ha-a-ir", WC's "chi-i-imes", CITFOTM "ma-a-an" and CE "ra-a-ange".
These all worked like a charm, but didn't stop from being a limitation

By no means a SMiLE expert, but I always assumed the repeated themes were intentional. Listening to the music and remembering Brian likening the work to a symphony, I guessed that he meant to arrange it into a theme and variations form. Or perhaps fugue or rondo, but anyway... intentionally recurring themes. I thought that was a central part of his thinking and design in composition.

Huh. You know, I didn't realize that. I assumed when you and others complained about the "repeating themes" in SMiLE you meant the recycled choruses circa 1967, the part in Look that sounds like GV and H&V having the same fade as OMP. Stuff like that wouldn't have been on the finished album because H&V reusing pieces wasn't the original plan and when it started to, it was actually indicitive the album was already in a death spiral. Look wouldn't have made the cut, nor Holidays which you say reuses Pet Sounds stuff. So criticisms against SMiLE for instances like those are misinformed and void asaic.

But I had no idea the choruses to so many tracks were so similar. I can't even say it would be a theme on one of the suites, because I don't believe WC belongs with those other tracks, and even going by BWPS/TSS those songs would be in two different suites. Very interesting.

Does anybody have a mono mix of Holidays leading into Wind Chimes, but without the fly-in during the Whispering Wind section?

If anyone can PM me that, it would be greatly appreciated!

Anyone?

I really dont think it can be done with what we have. Im certainly not good enough to do it, anyway. How I got around that tho, was I used the "windchimes, tingling" lyrics from Smiley and put those on top of the Holidays fade leading into Wind Chimes for my Aquarian SMiLE mix.

my son calls this the Pet Sounds Tic, and it has made Pet Sounds unlistenable to me for years.  It's in every song!


Maybe we should all accept that, by abandoning SMiLE, Brian made another genius move by creating the first do-it-yourself modular album.  This wasn't attempted again until the 90s by Todd Rundgren, and then Nine Inch Nails.  He basically said "Here's the stems.  Make it yourself.  There is no right or wrong way"