The Smiley Smile Message Board

Smiley Smile Stuff => Smile Sessions Box Set (2011) => Topic started by: desmondo on October 28, 2011, 08:10:43 AM



Title: TSS - All things "Barnyard Suite"
Post by: desmondo on October 28, 2011, 08:10:43 AM
Thoughts on IIGS, BY, OMP and YAMS please


Title: Re: TSS - All things \
Post by: tansen on October 29, 2011, 08:15:40 AM
I don't really think IIGS / Barnyard fly-ins work that well, would do either or; either the instrumental versions or Brian's demo. Also the fly-ins are very buried in the mix, which is probably for a reason.


Title: Re: TSS - All things \
Post by: Paul2010 on October 29, 2011, 10:10:58 AM
I already made two new mixes for IIGS and Barnyard. I'm planning to do some more 'basic' new mixes, which can only use small edits and a simple fade out. My IIGS mix is the last take on the sessions disc, faded out where the disc 1 mix ends. Barnyard is the disc 1 version, but with the first 'vocal' bars replaced by the piano from the instrumental (the backing vocals have not started at that point) and with the other vocal bars just cut out. I figured I could just cut them out without replacing it with the accurate animal sound parts or something, since track has a few edits already (the animal sounds are in a different order than the complete version from the bootlegs). At the end a simple fade out. I think I'll be listening to these basic mixes more than the official mixes for these tracks. The offical mixes are very well done, but I prefer a bit more historical accurate mixes, so without the vocal fly-ins.


Title: Re: TSS - All things \
Post by: hypehat on October 29, 2011, 10:21:43 AM
I think the fly-ins are fine! I was expecting a disaster, but give or take a bit of clunky piano in Barnyard, it's cool.


Title: Re: TSS - All things \
Post by: Paul2010 on October 29, 2011, 10:24:55 AM
I think the fly-ins are fine! I was expecting a disaster, but give or take a bit of clunky piano in Barnyard, it's cool.

I think they're fine as well, but I just thought it was nice to have some mixes next to the official ones. (Roll your own!...)

Do you think they might release a Barnyard mix including the vocals but without the fly ins? I find it strange that it is missing from theis set. Maybe they can include it with a digital download?


Title: Re: TSS - All things \
Post by: tansen on October 29, 2011, 10:51:51 AM
I think the fly-ins are fine! I was expecting a disaster, but give or take a bit of clunky piano in Barnyard, it's cool.

You don't find they are well buried in the mix even? I mean even if you look away from the pitching/time-stretching artifacts, I think they are quite back in the mix.


Title: Re: TSS - All things \
Post by: hypehat on October 30, 2011, 04:15:08 AM
Well, yes. But if you ramped them up in the mix, it would probably expose more artifacts..... It's a tough call.


Title: Re: TSS - All things \
Post by: tansen on October 30, 2011, 07:07:42 AM
Well, yes. But if you ramped them up in the mix, it would probably expose more artifacts..... It's a tough call.

Yuo. Which is why I think I would prefer just the instrumental track, or the demo instead.


Title: Re: TSS - All things \
Post by: Paul2010 on October 30, 2011, 07:36:33 AM
I think they only found something like an acetate source for the OMP vocal. They use an alternate take as the first part, and then the vocal starts. It starts a bit later than in the bootleg mix, I think because the alternate take they used had more space between the drums and 'You were my sunshine'.

The alternate take they used on disc 1 is take 4 I believe. The book says the master take was take 11, but that one's missing (also from UM 17, probably because they used it for the vocal overdub).

Just for fun, I wanted to make a mono mix with a clean start and with the vocal starting at the 'right' point. I used the instrumental take 9 from UM 16 (the take most similar to the vocal take (11), with the 'You were my sunshine' line starting in the same tempo and at the same point) and used it as the first part of my mix, before the vocal from TSS. I sounds not bad, but  I think I will listen to the TSS disc 1 mix most of the time, or the complete vocal mix or the instrumental take 9.

BTW - I really like that they used Barnshine as a fade to this track, it really works.


Title: Re: TSS - All things \
Post by: egon spengler on October 30, 2011, 07:10:30 PM
Quick question about what's been booted for False Barnyard. On Project Smile, there's a FB session where Brian is directing Carl with some bg vocals, but I haven't heard a version with those vocals properly included. The TSS version doesn't include these vocals either. Is a there a version out there that does?


Title: Re: TSS - All things \
Post by: Bubba Ho-Tep on October 30, 2011, 07:17:14 PM
I'm not crazy about the fly-in's.

I know this may be blasphemous, but wouldn't it be less jarring for the listener to just have Al or Mike discretely cut new leads for those two bits and maybe push them deep into the mix so they don't stick out so much? Even just as an alternative?


Title: Re: TSS - All things \
Post by: runnersdialzero on October 30, 2011, 08:34:01 PM
I'm not crazy about the fly-in's.

I know this may be blasphemous, but wouldn't it be less jarring for the listener to just have Al or Mike discretely cut new leads for those two bits and maybe push them deep into the mix so they don't stick out so much? Even just as an alternative?

I really, really wouldn't have minded some bonus tracks that did this. Totally blasphemous, but it would've been cool.


Title: Re: TSS - All things \
Post by: homeontherange on October 31, 2011, 02:41:24 AM
I discovered something I hadn't heard before in the My Only Sunshine sessions. I often get stuck on little subtle details like this  ;D
Listen to Parts 1 & 2 at 3:56-4:00 something is playing in the background, some wonderful melody/chord change. I don't know if I recognize it really. Is this something Smile that wasn't recorded, or is it something completely else that someone's playing? Sounds like a piece from a Disney film or something.


Title: Re: TSS - All things \
Post by: Andrew G. Doe on October 31, 2011, 03:12:15 AM
Sounds like an edit artefact to me...


Title: Re: TSS - All things \
Post by: homeontherange on October 31, 2011, 03:21:36 AM
But I sort of recognize it. It's two chords and some notes.. A guitar strumming two chords and another instrument playing the notes.
Haha. I guess I'll let it go, but it's really beautiful.


Title: Re: TSS - All things \
Post by: Jay on October 31, 2011, 09:33:55 PM
I'm kind of confused on why they did IIGS the way that they did. Why would they play the melody once through, before you hear Brian's voice and piano come in? It just sounds odd to me. Also, I kind of wish they had used the Purple Chick backing track of IIGS, with the saxophone(?) playing the verse melody.


Title: Re: TSS - All things
Post by: Jonas on November 01, 2011, 05:31:29 AM
Whats that vocal buried at the fade of My Only Sunshine? I flippin love it.


Title: Re: TSS - All things \
Post by: desmondo on November 01, 2011, 07:18:17 AM
I'm kind of confused on why they did IIGS the way that they did. Why would they play the melody once through, before you hear Brian's voice and piano come in? It just sounds odd to me. Also, I kind of wish they had used the Purple Chick backing track of IIGS, with the saxophone(?) playing the verse melody.

Maybe because that's what Brian intended and I think you'll find the sax does play the melody right from bar one


Title: Re: TSS - All things \
Post by: Ron on November 01, 2011, 03:00:51 PM
I'm not crazy about the fly-in's.

I know this may be blasphemous, but wouldn't it be less jarring for the listener to just have Al or Mike discretely cut new leads for those two bits and maybe push them deep into the mix so they don't stick out so much? Even just as an alternative?

I really, really wouldn't have minded some bonus tracks that did this. Totally blasphemous, but it would've been cool.

Yep.  I agree, that would be awesome.  Paul Macca of course resang John's lead on "Real Love" to 'strengthen it'... so they could have Al or somebody sing along with Brian, and push it back into the bed but it would fill in all the rough spots.  Somebody ought to try it out with just their own voice.  Quick, who here sounds like Al Jardine??????


Title: Re: TSS - All things \
Post by: joshferrell on November 01, 2011, 03:09:26 PM
well it's official...according to the lyrics in the booklet it's "of the agriculture"...


Title: Re: TSS - All things \
Post by: Wrightfan on November 01, 2011, 03:34:36 PM
Other then "Great Shape" which I thought was kind off in it's construction, I really dug this. The end of "My Only Sunshine" is my favorite part.


Title: Re: TSS - All things \
Post by: Chris Brown on November 01, 2011, 07:51:15 PM
well it's official...according to the lyrics in the booklet it's "of the agriculture"...

Of course the booklet is going to say that, in keeping with the proper lyrics from BWPS.  Those are definitely the official lyrics, but that ain't what Brian is singing on the demo.


Title: Re: TSS - All things \
Post by: trismegistus on November 02, 2011, 11:45:14 AM
The only bit that feels odd to me is Great Shape...Barnyard sounds fantastic, I think, and YAMS is good as always. There's something about Great Shape that just feels weird, maybe it's how it's structured, because to be honest I've never had a problem with the demo vocals. I'll have to give it a few more tries, but this might be one bit I redo for my next mix.


Title: Re: TSS - All things \
Post by: onkster on November 02, 2011, 11:46:35 AM
Yes, it is. Listen closer.


Title: Re: TSS - All things \
Post by: Bleachboy on November 02, 2011, 12:10:25 PM
The only bit that feels odd to me is Great Shape...Barnyard sounds fantastic, I think, and YAMS is good as always. There's something about Great Shape that just feels weird, maybe it's how it's structured, because to be honest I've never had a problem with the demo vocals. I'll have to give it a few more tries, but this might be one bit I redo for my next mix.
I've had the same feeling. It's the time-stretching they've done to make the flyins fit to the backing track.


Title: Re: TSS - All things \
Post by: desmondo on November 03, 2011, 07:11:14 AM
well it's official...according to the lyrics in the booklet it's "of the agriculture"...

Of course the booklet is going to say that, in keeping with the proper lyrics from BWPS.  Those are definitely the official lyrics, but that ain't what Brian is singing on the demo.

It is just a demo remember


Title: Re: TSS - All things \
Post by: Chris Moise on November 03, 2011, 10:01:53 AM
Maybe because that's what Brian intended and I think you'll find the sax does play the melody right from bar one

Just curious but do you have a cite for that?


Title: Re: TSS - All things \
Post by: Chocolate Shake Man on November 03, 2011, 10:07:31 AM
In the sessions for OMP, Brian sings the classic lyrics "The old master painter from the faraway hills..." Do you think this means there were definitely vocals that were supposed to go there or was he just singing that to give the musicians an idea of the sound he was looking for?


Title: Re: TSS - All things \
Post by: Chris Brown on November 03, 2011, 10:33:27 AM
In the sessions for OMP, Brian sings the classic lyrics "The old master painter from the faraway hills..." Do you think this means there were definitely vocals that were supposed to go there or was he just singing that to give the musicians an idea of the sound he was looking for?

Hard to say - he seems to be singing it to emphasize how he wanted the line played ("it should sound far away").  But just the fact that he brings up lyrics at all makes me think that he may have intended to record them being sung with the cello.  Plus, for what it's worth, he sang the lyrics at least once at a BWPS show.


Title: Re: TSS - All things
Post by: Matt H on November 03, 2011, 10:36:27 AM
Whats that vocal buried at the fade of My Only Sunshine? I flippin love it.

I like it too, but can't tell what it is, anyone know?


Title: Re: TSS - All things
Post by: Chocolate Shake Man on November 03, 2011, 11:09:59 AM
Whats that vocal buried at the fade of My Only Sunshine? I flippin love it.

I like it too, but can't tell what it is, anyone know?

Sounds to me like Mike singing You Are My Sunshine but I have no idea where they got it from.


Title: Re: TSS - All things \
Post by: Billgoodman on November 03, 2011, 03:55:36 PM
....Want to know this....should have been in the liner notes....is there a wizzard here who knows what they are?


Title: Re: TSS - All things \
Post by: Jay on November 03, 2011, 06:39:25 PM
I'm kind of confused on why they did IIGS the way that they did. Why would they play the melody once through, before you hear Brian's voice and piano come in? It just sounds odd to me. Also, I kind of wish they had used the Purple Chick backing track of IIGS, with the saxophone(?) playing the verse melody.

Maybe because that's what Brian intended and I think you'll find the sax does play the melody right from bar one
Yes, the sax plays the melody, but I was talking about the backing track used on the Purple Chick version, which is different from what they used on the box set.


Title: Re: TSS - All things \
Post by: LetHimRun on November 03, 2011, 06:45:54 PM
I'm kind of confused on why they did IIGS the way that they did. Why would they play the melody once through, before you hear Brian's voice and piano come in? It just sounds odd to me. Also, I kind of wish they had used the Purple Chick backing track of IIGS, with the saxophone(?) playing the verse melody.

Maybe because that's what Brian intended and I think you'll find the sax does play the melody right from bar one
Yes, the sax plays the melody, but I was talking about the backing track used on the Purple Chick version, which is different from what they used on the box set.

Maybe the PC backing track isn't what Brian wanted or was going to use.


Title: Re: TSS - All things \
Post by: TheLazenby on November 03, 2011, 10:25:50 PM
My three gripes with Great Shape...

1) That is one awkwardly mis-timed edit back to the start of the track (to bring the vocals in).
2) Is it just me, or does the whole song seem to speed up??
3) Where's the reverb-crazy ending?  They did indeed try that during the Smile sessions.  To make matters worse, the track just cuts off cold before "Barnyard".


Title: Re: TSS - All things \
Post by: Paul2010 on November 04, 2011, 03:24:25 AM
If anyone's interested, I made new mono mixes for these three tracks without fly ins or crossfades. I don't know if I can post them here, since it's sourced from officially released material...if I can't, anyone can PM me.


Title: Re: TSS - All things \
Post by: bruiteur on November 05, 2011, 05:31:13 PM
The main reason the fly-ins for Barnyard don't work is because of the piano. I'm not sure why it wasn't dealt with for the Disc 1 assembly. It really wasn't that difficult to remove the piano from the demo and fly-in just Brian's vocals. The rest of the track is exactly the same. I made sure to put in the animal sounds in the first verse (like on Disc 1) that are absent in the instrumental Master Take on Disc 2. Admittedly, I do this for a living so it might not be easy for everyone. You can PM me if you want to swap out the track in your iTunes library (which is what I did).  It sounds much, much better with lead vocals but without that jarring piano.


Title: Re: TSS - All things \
Post by: jeffcdo on November 05, 2011, 06:12:08 PM
I'm not clear on the rationale for putting "I'm In Great Shape" here as opposed to where it appears on BWPS.  It seems to dovetail much better with the "health" theme of Vegetables.


Title: Re: TSS - All things \
Post by: Chris Brown on November 05, 2011, 08:23:04 PM
The main reason the fly-ins for Barnyard don't work is because of the piano. I'm not sure why it wasn't dealt with for the Disc 1 assembly. It really wasn't that difficult to remove the piano from the demo and fly-in just Brian's vocals. The rest of the track is exactly the same. I made sure to put in the animal sounds in the first verse (like on Disc 1) that are absent in the instrumental Master Take on Disc 2. Admittedly, I do this for a living so it might not be easy for everyone. You can PM me if you want to swap out the track in your iTunes library (which is what I did).  It sounds much, much better with lead vocals but without that jarring piano.

I'd like to believe you, but that's a mighty big claim, considering Mark L. is a pro and couldn't find a way to remove the piano.


Title: Re: TSS - All things \
Post by: egon spengler on November 05, 2011, 08:38:27 PM
....Want to know this....should have been in the liner notes....is there a wizzard here who knows what they are?

They're the lyrics to You Are My Sunshine.. you can make out every few words:

You are my sunshine, my only sunshine
You make me happy when skies are gray
You'll never know, dear, how much I love you
Please don't take my sunshine away


Title: Re: TSS - All things \
Post by: bruiteur on November 05, 2011, 09:29:26 PM
I certainly mean no offense to him, he's done a great job. I work in a pretty specialized post-production field and use several tools (and have certain experience) I'd imagine he might not have in the more music-oriented side of things. Anyway PM me and hear for yourself.

The main reason the fly-ins for Barnyard don't work is because of the piano. I'm not sure why it wasn't dealt with for the Disc 1 assembly. It really wasn't that difficult to remove the piano from the demo and fly-in just Brian's vocals. The rest of the track is exactly the same. I made sure to put in the animal sounds in the first verse (like on Disc 1) that are absent in the instrumental Master Take on Disc 2. Admittedly, I do this for a living so it might not be easy for everyone. You can PM me if you want to swap out the track in your iTunes library (which is what I did).  It sounds much, much better with lead vocals but without that jarring piano.

I'd like to believe you, but that's a mighty big claim, considering Mark L. is a pro and couldn't find a way to remove the piano.


Title: Re: TSS - All things \
Post by: tygerbug on November 06, 2011, 01:05:43 AM
Having listened to Bruiteur's mix of Barnyard, the vocals do sound a bit cleaner, louder and punchier.

It's really hard to judge the separation work without being able to hear the clean vocal without the track, but I do prefer it to the TSS version.

That said, I think this sort of digital trickery isn't the sort of thing the Smile Sessions box set was about, so they shouldn't be criticized for not going that route. I'm glad that fans who know how are doing it though.


Title: Re: TSS - All things \
Post by: Chris Brown on November 06, 2011, 04:01:14 PM
Having listened to Bruiteur's mix of Barnyard, the vocals do sound a bit cleaner, louder and punchier.

It's really hard to judge the separation work without being able to hear the clean vocal without the track, but I do prefer it to the TSS version.

That said, I think this sort of digital trickery isn't the sort of thing the Smile Sessions box set was about, so they shouldn't be criticized for not going that route. I'm glad that fans who know how are doing it though.


Yep Bruiteur did a fantastic job - not having that piano in there makes for a much more enjoyable listening experience.  I'm definitely inserting his version into my mix when the time comes.

I don't see how this digital trickery is any worse in principle than the fly-ins or pitch-shifted vocals.  Now that I know it could have been done, I'm really wondering why they didn't remove the piano like Bruiteur did.  I thought the goal was to create the best-sounding most "complete" version of the album possible, and it's pretty clear now that "Barnyard" and "Great Shape" could have sounded better than they do.


Title: Re: TSS - All things \
Post by: runnersdialzero on November 06, 2011, 05:20:02 PM
plz sned me bruiteur "barnyard" mix imo


Title: Re: TSS - All things \
Post by: Bubba Ho-Tep on November 07, 2011, 10:42:19 PM
....Want to know this....should have been in the liner notes....is there a wizzard here who knows what they are?

They're the lyrics to You Are My Sunshine.. you can make out every few words:

You are my sunshine, my only sunshine
You make me happy when skies are gray
You'll never know, dear, how much I love you
Please don't take my sunshine away

The other words are there too, just sung very low (bass).

Can't one of you wizards isolate the vocal like you did with "Truck Driving Man"?


Title: Re: TSS - All things
Post by: Roger Ryan on November 09, 2011, 09:28:20 AM
Whats that vocal buried at the fade of My Only Sunshine? I flippin love it.

I like it too, but can't tell what it is, anyone know?

Sounds to me like Mike singing You Are My Sunshine but I have no idea where they got it from.

According to the sessionography, the only vocalists on the "My Only Sunshine" tag are Brian, Marilyn and Diane - so I have to assume the voice singing the "You Are My Sunshine" lyrics is Brian (although many thought is was Mike when listening to the boots).

Despite the questionable use of the fly-ins, I love that we now have a "Barnyard Suite" that runs just over three minutes. "I'm In Great Shape" worked fine on BWPS, but placed in front of "Barnyard" feels right. The first movement now has a nice little "day at the farm" section before the sun sets and "Cabin Essence" takes over.


Title: Re: TSS - All things \
Post by: TheManchesterMan on November 09, 2011, 03:10:33 PM
The track on the CD1 mix of Great Shape seems not to match any of those in the sessions track. Am I mishearing things or is it a different take? Is it just that they synced the Humble Harve piano to the whole of the track, unlike the way the piano just appears below the vocal in Barnyard?

I must say I think the way they added a copied and pasted intro to it sounds dreadful. Also, given the length of the track for Barnyard is it possible there were meant to be more lyrics. In other sessions it seems Brain is quite specific about how long he lets the musicians keep playing a piece for and the fade-outs are generally shorter when used on BB records of the time. I may well be wrong, mind.


Title: Re: TSS - All things \
Post by: Tricycle Rider on November 11, 2011, 01:01:09 PM
The main reason the fly-ins for Barnyard don't work is because of the piano.

NICE JOB on this track bruiteur!  :)


Title: Re: TSS - All things \
Post by: Mahalo on November 13, 2011, 08:34:45 PM
FWIW, the piano bleed makes these songs just a bit angrier...and cool. Nothing like Brian pounding away!!


Title: Re: TSS - All things \
Post by: onkster on November 14, 2011, 02:13:16 PM
I gotta say, hearing the fly-ins on the actual CD is not so bad. Somehow, when they made the sample streams for the websites, it brought out the technical flaws and made it sound a whole lot worse.

It doesn't bug me now.


Title: Re: TSS - All things \
Post by: Aegir on November 14, 2011, 02:17:10 PM
FWIW, the piano bleed makes these songs just a bit angrier...and cool. Nothing like Brian pounding away!!

EXACTLY!


Title: Re: TSS - All things \
Post by: doinnothin on November 15, 2011, 11:44:23 PM
I never noticed until today but the sax line at the end of Sunshine (before Barnshine) is the really similar to the sax line as Great Shape! Definitely makes me wonder if Great Shape was supposed to go in there.


Title: Re: TSS - All things \
Post by: bossaroo on November 16, 2011, 10:00:37 AM
I really love the 'Great Shape' demo, one of my favorite moments in recorded history. The fly-ins don't really fit over the track, and I wonder if vocals were even meant to go on there originally.

Here's a version that combines the demo and the track, while keeping them separate: http://www.sendspace.com/file/i5o3sw


Title: Re: TSS - All things \
Post by: tansen on November 16, 2011, 12:02:29 PM
I really love the 'Great Shape' demo, one of my favorite moments in recorded history. The fly-ins don't really fit over the track, and I wonder if vocals were even meant to go on there originally.

Here's a version that combines the demo and the track, while keeping them separate: http://www.sendspace.com/file/i5o3sw

I like that idea, but I would probably loop the two last chords on the piano and fade it out.


Title: Re: TSS - All things \
Post by: krabklaw on November 16, 2011, 03:52:48 PM
I never noticed until today but the sax line at the end of Sunshine (before Barnshine) is the really similar to the sax line as Great Shape! Definitely makes me wonder if Great Shape was supposed to go in there.
I can't really hear the similarity. Although I do think that the Old Master Painter/Sunshine was meant to be the nighttime (sun going down) to I'm In Great Shape's up-at-dawn daytime. Taken together they are the barnyard suite.  I imagine the suite is sung by the protagonist from Heroes & Villains. I use it to end the album as the Capitol tracklist indicates. I have it sequenced thusly:
Eggs & Grits
Barnyard
Do A Lot (H&V version)
Eggs & Grits (no vocal)
With Me Tonight
Eggs & Grits (no vocal)
H&V Fade (strings only)
The Old Master Painter/You Were My Sunshine
H&V Fade


Title: Re: TSS - All things \
Post by: sly74 on November 16, 2011, 06:51:43 PM
I really love the 'Great Shape' demo, one of my favorite moments in recorded history. The fly-ins don't really fit over the track, and I wonder if vocals were even meant to go on there originally.

Here's a version that combines the demo and the track, while keeping them separate: http://www.sendspace.com/file/i5o3sw

It's indicated in the sessionography vocals were documented as recorded but no tapes are found...similar notes are on "Look", "Surf's Up"....oh the humanity! :(


Title: Re: TSS - All things \
Post by: bossaroo on November 16, 2011, 10:36:40 PM
I just wonder if the vocals were meant to go on top of the sax line or somewhere else. It's a damn shame we don't have any official vocals for IIGS, Look, etc.

Either way, the demo fits perfectly with the old-timey piano/western/americana feel of SMiLE


I really love the 'Great Shape' demo, one of my favorite moments in recorded history. The fly-ins don't really fit over the track, and I wonder if vocals were even meant to go on there originally.

Here's a version that combines the demo and the track, while keeping them separate: http://www.sendspace.com/file/i5o3sw


I like that idea, but I would probably loop the two last chords on the piano and fade it out.

the problem with looping the piano chords is all the *coughing* that was going on   :smokin
but i kind of like the coughing to be honest. it fits with all the other sound effects on SMiLE and it's pretty funny in the context of a song about being fit and breathing fresh air. or perhaps a reference to L.A. smog?

if you loop the piano more than once you get Brian repeating the word "country" which likely bothers some, but i happen to dig.

here it is with one loop: http://www.sendspace.com/file/6h068n

here's a continuous loop over one of the celeste takes: http://www.sendspace.com/file/tuy6cz


Title: Re: TSS - All things \
Post by: tansen on November 16, 2011, 10:57:58 PM
I just wonder if the vocals were meant to go on top of the sax line or somewhere else. It's a damn shame we don't have any official vocals for IIGS, Look, etc.

Either way, the demo fits perfectly with the old-timey piano/western/americana feel of SMiLE


I really love the 'Great Shape' demo, one of my favorite moments in recorded history. The fly-ins don't really fit over the track, and I wonder if vocals were even meant to go on there originally.

Here's a version that combines the demo and the track, while keeping them separate: http://www.sendspace.com/file/i5o3sw


I like that idea, but I would probably loop the two last chords on the piano and fade it out.

the problem with looping the piano chords is all the *coughing* that was going on   :smokin
but i kind of like the coughing to be honest. it fits with all the other sound effects on SMiLE and it's pretty funny in the context of a song about being fit and breathing fresh air. or perhaps a reference to L.A. smog?

if you loop the piano more than once you get Brian repeating the word "country" which likely bothers some, but i happen to dig.

here it is with one loop: http://www.sendspace.com/file/6h068n

here's a continuous loop over one of the celeste takes: http://www.sendspace.com/file/tuy6cz

Works best with the piano looped once - if you wanna be fancy about it you could automate some EQ that filters out some of the high frequencies when the cough comes, and/or even automate another EQ that gradually removes the frequencies down to say a hundred hertz - so essentially a glorified volume control. This of course in time with a fade-out.


Title: Re: TSS - All things \
Post by: Chris Moise on November 17, 2011, 03:51:53 AM
I just wonder if the vocals were meant to go on top of the sax line or somewhere else. It's a damn shame we don't have any official vocals for IIGS, Look, etc.

FWIW the lost I'm In Great Shape vocal session was recorded 10 days *before* the short 'eggs & grits' backing track takes. Whatever was recorded at that vocal session most likely wasn't intended to go on top of the 'eggs & grits' instrumental.


Title: Re: TSS - All things \
Post by: hypehat on November 17, 2011, 01:26:13 PM
I always wondered whether it was supposed to be acapella in the first place - block chords in harmonies....


Title: Re: TSS - All things \
Post by: Micha on November 17, 2011, 10:37:18 PM
I wonder if the "I'm In Great Shape" on the Dec. tracklist really is the same composition as the one from the H&V demo.

Did Brian keep that title because he thought if "Fire" could cause fires then a track called "I'm In Great Shape" would cause him getting in great shape? ::)


Title: Re: TSS - All things \
Post by: Roger Ryan on November 18, 2011, 05:48:30 AM
I always wondered whether it was supposed to be acapella in the first place - block chords in harmonies....

Just going by the lyric, I had thought the whole "Sleep a lot, eat a lot..." bit was "I'm In Great Shape" before I knew better. I now wonder if Brian ever considered using the "sleep a lot" bit to flesh out a complete "I'm In Great Shape" track.


Title: Re: TSS - All things \
Post by: Wrightfan on November 18, 2011, 02:52:08 PM
After hearing this, I'm really starting to think that "barnshine" is really one of my favorite sections on SMiLE. Love the "you are my sunshine" lyrics being sung underneath it.


Title: Re: TSS - All things \
Post by: hypehat on November 18, 2011, 09:17:00 PM
I love these three songs, period. Great Shape is just such a f*ckin ridiculous melody.


Title: Re: TSS - All things \
Post by: XXXCD on November 20, 2011, 02:45:30 PM
Can anyone tell me where in the Pet Sounds sessions (the bootleged Sea of Tunes version) that the "The Old Master Painter" is heard being sung ??

I know it exists, but I have never actually heard this myself.



Title: Re: TSS - All things \
Post by: Been Too Long on November 20, 2011, 03:33:37 PM
Can anyone tell me where in the Pet Sounds sessions (the bootleged Sea of Tunes version) that the "The Old Master Painter" is heard being sung ??

I know it exists, but I have never actually heard this myself.



No longer have this but I remember it being during the IKTAA backing sessions, right at the start. Try SOT Vol. 13, disc 4, track 9, right at the start?


Title: Re: TSS - All things
Post by: Reverend Rock on November 20, 2011, 09:31:05 PM
Despite the questionable use of the fly-ins, I love that we now have a "Barnyard Suite" that runs just over three minutes. "I'm In Great Shape" worked fine on BWPS, but placed in front of "Barnyard" feels right. The first movement now has a nice little "day at the farm" section before the sun sets and "Cabin Essence" takes over.

I agree.  The only thing I would like even more is if "Barnyard Suite" followed "Heroes and Villains" and preceded "Do You Like Worms" (thus matching Brian's first thoughts when he was demoing "Heroes and Villains" with Van Dyke early on).  And of course, on my latest fan-mix, that's precisely what happens.


Title: Re: TSS - All things \
Post by: XXXCD on November 22, 2011, 02:53:15 AM

No longer have this but I remember it being during the IKTAA backing sessions, right at the start. Try SOT Vol. 13, disc 4, track 9, right at the start?

Good memory !
Thanks, you are correct.


Title: Re: TSS - All things
Post by: runnersdialzero on November 22, 2011, 08:54:50 AM

I agree.  The only thing I would like even more is if "Barnyard Suite" followed "Heroes and Villains" and preceded "Do You Like Worms" (thus matching Brian's first thoughts when he was demoing "Heroes and Villains" with Van Dyke early on).  And of course, on my latest fan-mix, that's precisely what happens.

What?


Title: Re: TSS - All things
Post by: Reverend Rock on November 23, 2011, 07:30:51 PM

I agree.  The only thing I would like even more is if "Barnyard Suite" followed "Heroes and Villains" and preceded "Do You Like Worms" (thus matching Brian's first thoughts when he was demoing "Heroes and Villains" with Van Dyke early on).  And of course, on my latest fan-mix, that's precisely what happens.

What?

Oh, I shouldn't have worded it like that.  But the piano demo of "Heroes and Villains/I'm In Great Shape/Barnyard" seems to indicate that at one point, Brian considered them pieces of the same song.  And I like to hear them that way.


Title: Re: TSS - All things \
Post by: Camus on November 25, 2011, 02:09:56 AM
Am I the only one who really dislikes the edits at the end of You Are My Sunshine where the sax part is?


Title: Re: TSS - All things \
Post by: Paul2010 on November 25, 2011, 08:35:55 AM
Am I the only one who really dislikes the edits at the end of You Are My Sunshine where the sax part is?

Hi Camus, I don't think there were any additional edits around the sax solo, that sounds exactly like the bootleg mono mix. The only edit is that a different take was used for The Old Master Painter, before the vocal starts. (Probably because the vocal mix was cleaned up from an acetate and that they wanted to use the best sound quality availble for each part.)


Title: Re: TSS - All things \
Post by: tansen on November 25, 2011, 08:49:21 AM

No longer have this but I remember it being during the IKTAA backing sessions, right at the start. Try SOT Vol. 13, disc 4, track 9, right at the start?

Good memory !
Thanks, you are correct.

lol, good memory, yeah right. :D


Title: Re: TSS - All things \
Post by: P.J. on November 26, 2011, 01:44:57 PM
Ok, so I am trying to get the session just right for "YAMS/OMP/Barnshine"

11/14/66 - My Only Sunshine: Part 1 (take 11) [found on Disc 3 Track 6, 0:46]
11/14/66 - My Only Sunshine: Part 2 (take 16) [found on Disc 3 Track 6, 5:58]

11/30/66 - My Only Sunshine: Part 1 (Dennis vocals "You Were My Sunshine")

Late 66/Early 67 - My Only Sunshine: Part 2 (Brian, Marylin, & Diane vocals "Dum-bedoo-bedoo")

2/10/67 - My Only Sunshine: Part 2 (Brian vocals "When The Skies Are Blue")

And then I guess the 2/10 vocals were wiped when the section was added to the H&V mix made that day??



Title: Re: TSS - All things \
Post by: sly74 on November 27, 2011, 10:09:03 AM

2/10/67 - My Only Sunshine: Part 2 (Brian vocals "When The Skies Are Blue")


This is the buried vocal now on the fade correct? It's not Mike? I thought for sure it is.


Title: Re: TSS - All things \
Post by: Wrightfan on November 27, 2011, 06:28:34 PM
Think the lyrics are:
Sunnnnnnnnshine
My only...sunnnnshine
When skies are gray
How much I love...


Title: Re: TSS - All things \
Post by: P.J. on November 28, 2011, 07:25:35 AM

2/10/67 - My Only Sunshine: Part 2 (Brian vocals "When The Skies Are Blue")


This is the buried vocal now on the fade correct? It's not Mike? I thought for sure it is.
Well, the Sessionography doesn't mention Mike. Only Dennis and Brian and then the girls.

Oh yeah, I think it might be "gray" instead of "blue".


Title: Re: TSS - All things \
Post by: Reverend Rock on November 28, 2011, 07:27:08 PM
Now that I've been living with TSS for a few weeks, I really must say that the one thing I'm not crazy about is the way "I'm In Great Shape" was handled.  It's just too damn busy for me.  I would actually prefer them crossfading Brian's original piano demo into the piano-and-sax-only studio session with the genuine tape-delay overload kept in.  That with just a little reverb added would be just perfect, I think (and since I have that exact thing on my latest fan-mix using TSS tracks with a few other items, no problem!)...


Title: Re: TSS - All things \
Post by: runnersdialzero on November 29, 2011, 02:13:51 AM
Now that I've been living with TSS for a few weeks, I really must say that the one thing I'm not crazy about is the way "I'm In Great Shape" was handled.  It's just too damn busy for me.  I would actually prefer them crossfading Brian's original piano demo into the piano-and-sax-only studio session with the genuine tape-delay overload kept in.  That with just a little reverb added would be just perfect, I think (and since I have that exact thing on my latest fan-mix using TSS tracks with a few other items, no problem!)...

Countless folks here have proved the piano demo and the backing track are easily well-synced, it's just NOT well-synced on the box set.


Title: Re: TSS - All things \
Post by: sly74 on November 29, 2011, 06:33:43 PM
Now that I've been living with TSS for a few weeks, I really must say that the one thing I'm not crazy about is the way "I'm In Great Shape" was handled.  It's just too damn busy for me.  I would actually prefer them crossfading Brian's original piano demo into the piano-and-sax-only studio session with the genuine tape-delay overload kept in.  That with just a little reverb added would be just perfect, I think (and since I have that exact thing on my latest fan-mix using TSS tracks with a few other items, no problem!)...

Countless folks here have proved the piano demo and the backing track are easily well-synced, it's just NOT well-synced on the box set.

Someone else on here said the person who mixed the boxset, while doing the absolute best they could do, "don't have musical ears". I would agree completely. It's no surprise when listening to the 2001 remasters and was unfortunately expected to a degree with this. That said it is, with the "album" aside, worth it. It's too bad a new listener has to hear it this way. Kind of hard to plead the case of it being brilliant. The most I've been able to make convincing is with the H&V sections on disc 1. I hear a lot of "why didn't they use that part?"


Title: Re: TSS - All things \
Post by: Reverend Rock on November 29, 2011, 08:49:42 PM
Well, one thing I can say is that the final version of "I'm In Great Shape" on BWPS is absolutely unbeatable to my ears.


Title: Re: TSS - All things
Post by: Jeff on November 30, 2011, 10:55:14 AM
Despite the questionable use of the fly-ins, I love that we now have a "Barnyard Suite" that runs just over three minutes. "I'm In Great Shape" worked fine on BWPS, but placed in front of "Barnyard" feels right. The first movement now has a nice little "day at the farm" section before the sun sets and "Cabin Essence" takes over.

I agree.  The only thing I would like even more is if "Barnyard Suite" followed "Heroes and Villains" and preceded "Do You Like Worms" (thus matching Brian's first thoughts when he was demoing "Heroes and Villains" with Van Dyke early on).  And of course, on my latest fan-mix, that's precisely what happens.

I also think that having Gee, H&V, Great Shape, Barnyard and OMP together is the way to go.  In addition to all originating from the same song, they're all first person narratives, and ending that group with the Barnshine fade is perfect.

I wish that Brian had not vetoed Speeches.  It fits nicely after the Barnshine fade and before Worms.


Title: Re: TSS - All things
Post by: Reverend Rock on November 30, 2011, 10:14:40 PM
Despite the questionable use of the fly-ins, I love that we now have a "Barnyard Suite" that runs just over three minutes. "I'm In Great Shape" worked fine on BWPS, but placed in front of "Barnyard" feels right. The first movement now has a nice little "day at the farm" section before the sun sets and "Cabin Essence" takes over.

I agree.  The only thing I would like even more is if "Barnyard Suite" followed "Heroes and Villains" and preceded "Do You Like Worms" (thus matching Brian's first thoughts when he was demoing "Heroes and Villains" with Van Dyke early on).  And of course, on my latest fan-mix, that's precisely what happens.


I also think that having Gee, H&V, Great Shape, Barnyard and OMP together is the way to go.  In addition to all originating from the same song, they're all first person narratives, and ending that group with the Barnshine fade is perfect.

I wish that Brian had not vetoed Speeches.  It fits nicely after the Barnshine fade and before Worms.

I think "He Gives Speeches" belongs right before "Wonderful".  On all my fan mixes, no matter what else happens, that's always been where it ends up.


Title: Re: TSS - All things \
Post by: superunison on November 30, 2011, 10:50:55 PM
I just wonder if the vocals were meant to go on top of the sax line or somewhere else. It's a damn shame we don't have any official vocals for IIGS, Look, etc.

FWIW the lost I'm In Great Shape vocal session was recorded 10 days *before* the short 'eggs & grits' backing track takes. Whatever was recorded at that vocal session it most likely it wasn't intended to go on top of the 'eggs & grits' instrumental.

Wow, didn't know that...... Surprised this hasn't been brought up more. Also, does it drive anyone else crazy that they looped that first phrase on the saxophone before the vocal fly-ins on Great Shape???


Title: Re: TSS - All things \
Post by: runnersdialzero on December 01, 2011, 04:39:35 AM
Yes and no. By itself, it's a totally cold intro and almost sounds strange. As we know, it was written as part of "Heroes And Villains", but without knowing *where*, I guess they had to do something or other about it. Not the approach I would have taken, but hay.


Title: Re: TSS - All things \
Post by: Roger Ryan on December 01, 2011, 09:24:12 AM
Yes and no. By itself, it's a totally cold intro and almost sounds strange. As we know, it was written as part of "Heroes And Villains", but without knowing *where*, I guess they had to do something or other about it. Not the approach I would have taken, but hay.

For my mix, I chose to lay in the full instrumental run-through of the previous take (no bass overdub) and "splice in" the isolated vocal over the proper take on the beat during the high point of the tape explosion. Obviously extends the track longer than originally intended, but it prepares you for the vocal section without having to repeat the first phrase.


Title: Re: TSS - All things \
Post by: TheManchesterMan on December 01, 2011, 10:35:42 AM
Sounds interesting. One thing I've never understood is why the bass just drops out all of a sudden towards the end of the track while the other instruments are still playing.


Title: Re: TSS - All things
Post by: krabklaw on December 01, 2011, 09:26:04 PM
I think "He Gives Speeches" belongs right before "Wonderful".  On all my fan mixes, no matter what else happens, that's always been where it ends up.
Agree 100% with you on that! Not sure why but it just sounds so right there- something similar about their melodies I think. Speeches and Wonderful just sound right together.


Title: Re: TSS - All things \
Post by: Paul2010 on December 02, 2011, 12:39:32 AM
Sounds interesting. One thing I've never understood is why the bass just drops out all of a sudden towards the end of the track while the other instruments are still playing.

Are we talking about the final, last take of IIGS? I think the instruments continue longer than the bass because the bass was overdubbed. The instrumental take was played a little longer, and the bass probably stops at the point the edit would come or the track would end.


Title: Re: TSS - All things
Post by: Reverend Rock on December 02, 2011, 09:25:29 PM
I think "He Gives Speeches" belongs right before "Wonderful".  On all my fan mixes, no matter what else happens, that's always been where it ends up.
Agree 100% with you on that! Not sure why but it just sounds so right there- something similar about their melodies I think. Speeches and Wonderful just sound right together.

Yes, the melodies both begin with rising quarter-note patterns, but there's a direct lyrical relationship going on too.  "He gives speeches, always reaches out a lot..."  "She belongs there, left with her liberty..."  I've felt for years that the songs are different perspectives on the same relationship.


Title: Re: TSS - All things
Post by: krabklaw on December 04, 2011, 12:15:44 AM
I think "He Gives Speeches" belongs right before "Wonderful".  On all my fan mixes, no matter what else happens, that's always been where it ends up.
Agree 100% with you on that! Not sure why but it just sounds so right there- something similar about their melodies I think. Speeches and Wonderful just sound right together.

Yes, the melodies both begin with rising quarter-note patterns, but there's a direct lyrical relationship going on too.  "He gives speeches, always reaches out a lot..."  "She belongs there, left with her liberty..."  I've felt for years that the songs are different perspectives on the same relationship.
Like the best poetry, both songs are open to interpretation as to their full meaning. I will agree with you that the lyrics to He Gives Speeches and Wonderful feel connected. The "left with her liberty" line I feel is a clue that Parks is referring to all of America, as in "my country tis of thee, sweet land of liberty". That would bring the song back to the whole "see what you've done to the church of the American Indian" theme. "A boy" is not just a boy but the totality of the European invasion of America. The yodeling in the background could represent the cowboys taking the land and fencing off the country into property. Maybe the "chalk and numbers" refers to this division of America's landscape. He Gives Speeches  refers to "silken hair fell on his face and no wind was blowing"- perhaps a callback to Cabinessence line about uncovering the corn field: The corn crops of the Indians are being cut down by the European man to make way for their colonization.  I'm tired now.


Title: Re: TSS - All things
Post by: Reverend Rock on December 04, 2011, 07:23:23 PM
I think "He Gives Speeches" belongs right before "Wonderful".  On all my fan mixes, no matter what else happens, that's always been where it ends up.
Agree 100% with you on that! Not sure why but it just sounds so right there- something similar about their melodies I think. Speeches and Wonderful just sound right together.

Yes, the melodies both begin with rising quarter-note patterns, but there's a direct lyrical relationship going on too.  "He gives speeches, always reaches out a lot..."  "She belongs there, left with her liberty..."  I've felt for years that the songs are different perspectives on the same relationship.
Like the best poetry, both songs are open to interpretation as to their full meaning. I will agree with you that the lyrics to He Gives Speeches and Wonderful feel connected. The "left with her liberty" line I feel is a clue that Parks is referring to all of America, as in "my country tis of thee, sweet land of liberty". That would bring the song back to the whole "see what you've done to the church of the American Indian" theme. "A boy" is not just a boy but the totality of the European invasion of America. The yodeling in the background could represent the cowboys taking the land and fencing off the country into property. Maybe the "chalk and numbers" refers to this division of America's landscape. He Gives Speeches  refers to "silken hair fell on his face and no wind was blowing"- perhaps a callback to Cabinessence line about uncovering the corn field: The corn crops of the Indians are being cut down by the European man to make way for their colonization.  I'm tired now.

Well, you should be tired!  That's quite a bit of brainpower you just used!  How I wish all of these SMiLE discussions probed so deeply into the musical and lyrical riches buried there!

It's very interesting to me to consider the possibility of an "Americana" symbolism beneath the surface romantic/sexual imagery of these two songs.  I think, also, that in a '67 SMiLE, these two songs could have been key to making "Good Vibrations" actually fit the overall sonic and lyrical picture.  On a recent "SMiLE '67" LP-length fan-mix that I did, I placed "He Gives Speeches/Wonderful" as one track in between "Cabin Essence" and "Good Vibrations", with GV closing my "side one" and it made for a very natural progression of musical/lyrical thematics.


Title: Re: TSS - All things
Post by: krabklaw on December 05, 2011, 01:53:46 PM
  On a recent "SMiLE '67" LP-length fan-mix that I did, I placed "He Gives Speeches/Wonderful" as one track in between "Cabin Essence" and "Good Vibrations", with GV closing my "side one" and it made for a very natural progression of musical/lyrical thematics.

That's funny- on my last fan-mix, which I listened to for about 9 years I had Wonderful following Cabinessence also (no He Gives Speeches on that one though).
 The latest mix I've made since TSS came out has He Gives Speches back in there paired with Wonderful. I actually used He Gives Speeches to start off Side 2 as an unlisted track, the same way Our Prayer would have probably led off Side 1 as an unlisted track. I have Cabinessence ending Side 1.


Title: Re: TSS - All things \
Post by: Disney Boy (1985) on March 04, 2012, 02:21:12 AM
I'm In Great Shape is the one single track where I prefer the BWPS version to the original BB recordings. I just love the way they really go to town on the crazed reverb at the end. They picked a really boring take for the new SMiLE version, and I don't really undertand why. Listen to the IIGS sessions on disc 2 and you can hear much more exciting takes.


Title: Re: TSS - All things "Barnyard Suite"
Post by: rab2591 on February 20, 2013, 07:32:10 PM
Does anyone know what the influence for the instrumental of Barnyard was? Like what songs from that era would have been remotely similar to this (in pop culture, western soundtracks, or Disney productions)?

Old McDonald Had A Farm could be an influence, but I can't find a recording from that before that era that sounds like Barnyard.


Title: Re: TSS - All things \
Post by: Al Jardine: Pick Up Artist on February 21, 2013, 09:31:44 PM
All the people who were cumming in their pants over Mike's vocals in Barnshine were late to the party -- listen to Old Master Painter - You Are My Sunshine (2) on disc 2 of Secret Smile. It's right there!


Title: Re: TSS - All things \
Post by: Jim V. on April 24, 2013, 11:42:30 AM
All the people who were cumming in their pants over Mike's vocals in Barnshine were late to the party -- listen to Old Master Painter - You Are My Sunshine (2) on disc 2 of Secret Smile. It's right there!

Not Mike. It's Brian.


Title: Re: TSS - All things \
Post by: Al Jardine: Pick Up Artist on April 24, 2013, 02:37:19 PM
As many times as I'm told that, I find it so hard to believe. Brian on the "Rock With Me Henry"s I'll gladly accept, but this really seems sketchy to me. It sounds *just* like Mike, nasalness and everything.


Title: Re: TSS - All things \
Post by: Gabo on August 06, 2013, 05:12:16 PM
I'm In Great Shape is my favorite Smile song. I think the Smile Sessions version turned out beautifully, though Brian Wilson's I'm In Great Shape/I Wanna Be Around/Workshop is more complete and polished.


Title: Re: TSS - All things \
Post by: IAmTheMilkMan on February 02, 2014, 05:03:56 AM
I seem to recall people requesting video for when Brian sang a couple lines of Old Master Painter at a Smile show, and I just recently found this on YouTube:

http://youtu.be/d3p6hxoddPs?t=10m39s

Pretty interesting. So is it safe to assume that he intended for there to be lyrics over the Old Master Painter track and he just didn't recall them in time for the recording of the 2004 album? He doesn't seem to remember them all in the video there, either.


Title: Re: TSS - All things \
Post by: puni puni on February 02, 2014, 05:24:29 AM
I'm sure they would have looked up the lyrics if he wanted them.


Title: Re: TSS - All things \
Post by: IAmTheMilkMan on February 02, 2014, 05:39:23 PM
I'm sure they would have looked up the lyrics if he wanted them.
That's what I would have thought, but I just don't know anymore when it comes to Smile.


Title: Re: TSS - All things \
Post by: Tilt Araiza on February 13, 2014, 05:28:58 PM
My recollection is, someone (I think it might have been for the Earcandy site) interviewed Brian before one of the 2004 shows, asked about the OMP lyrics, Brian said that OMP was not meant to have vocals and then, with typical Brian perversity, sang the lyrics that night and every other night for the rest of the tour (I heard him do it in LA).


Title: Re: TSS - All things \
Post by: AJOG on March 24, 2014, 02:44:19 PM
Does anyone know what the influence for the instrumental of Barnyard was? Like what songs from that era would have been remotely similar to this (in pop culture, western soundtracks, or Disney productions)?

Old McDonald Had A Farm could be an influence, but I can't find a recording from that before that era that sounds like Barnyard.

I'd say that Aaron Copland's "Hoedown" from the Rodeo Suite probably had some influence. Moreso in Barnshine, perhaps.


Title: Re: TSS - All things \
Post by: Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard on January 16, 2015, 02:46:20 AM
I just wonder if the vocals were meant to go on top of the sax line or somewhere else. It's a damn shame we don't have any official vocals for IIGS, Look, etc.

FWIW the lost I'm In Great Shape vocal session was recorded 10 days *before* the short 'eggs & grits' backing track takes. Whatever was recorded at that vocal session most likely wasn't intended to go on top of the 'eggs & grits' instrumental.

Were OMP and IWBA already in the can by this point? My memory's fuzzy on that. Could explain a LOT if this vocal session survived. I wonder if the Great Shape medley as it exists on BWPS is vintage then? I wonder if Do A Lot started as a H&V fragment or was repurposed as one from Great Shape, similar to Bicycle Rider.

I always wondered whether it was supposed to be acapella in the first place - block chords in harmonies....

Just going by the lyric, I had thought the whole "Sleep a lot, eat a lot..." bit was "I'm In Great Shape" before I knew better. I now wonder if Brian ever considered using the "sleep a lot" bit to flesh out a complete "I'm In Great Shape" track.

To tie this into my earlier comment, I think that Do A Lot chorus really makes sense as Great Shape too. Those lyrics fit perfectly with the track title and demo vocals. We know that chorus didnt belong in Veggies until that song became a single. Then it was given a chorus similar to how Heroes was given one. The question is whether Do A Lot began as part of Heroes or GS, but even that isnt totally important because Great Shape itself was a Heroes fragment spun off into its own song. It's reasonable other H&V fragments were spun off into it too.

Well, one thing I can say is that the final version of "I'm In Great Shape" on BWPS is absolutely unbeatable to my ears.

I think it sounds awful, but mostly because of where its placed. That big upbeat intro right after Surf's Up has got to be one of the most jarring and awful transitions in music history.

Someone else on here said the person who mixed the boxset, while doing the absolute best they could do, "don't have musical ears". I would agree completely. It's no surprise when listening to the 2001 remasters and was unfortunately expected to a degree with this. That said it is, with the "album" aside, worth it. It's too bad a new listener has to hear it this way. Kind of hard to plead the case of it being brilliant. The most I've been able to make convincing is with the H&V sections on disc 1. I hear a lot of "why didn't they use that part?"

I agree, and that's what actually fueled my obsession with remixing the album. I hate TSS Disc 1 for so many reasons, I think the music deserves better presentation, and I hate that anyone who hears about SMiLE for the first time will be subjected to such a shoddy sequence with many questionable versions of the songs used that will no doubt lessen their opinion of the whole thing. A damn shame, I'd say.

Like the best poetry, both songs are open to interpretation as to their full meaning. I will agree with you that the lyrics to He Gives Speeches and Wonderful feel connected. The "left with her liberty" line I feel is a clue that Parks is referring to all of America, as in "my country tis of thee, sweet land of liberty". That would bring the song back to the whole "see what you've done to the church of the American Indian" theme. "A boy" is not just a boy but the totality of the European invasion of America. The yodeling in the background could represent the cowboys taking the land and fencing off the country into property. Maybe the "chalk and numbers" refers to this division of America's landscape. He Gives Speeches  refers to "silken hair fell on his face and no wind was blowing"- perhaps a callback to Cabinessence line about uncovering the corn field: The corn crops of the Indians are being cut down by the European man to make way for their colonization.  I'm tired now.

Well, you should be tired!  That's quite a bit of brainpower you just used!  How I wish all of these SMiLE discussions probed so deeply into the musical and lyrical riches buried there!

It's very interesting to me to consider the possibility of an "Americana" symbolism beneath the surface romantic/sexual imagery of these two songs.  I think, also, that in a '67 SMiLE, these two songs could have been key to making "Good Vibrations" actually fit the overall sonic and lyrical picture.  On a recent "SMiLE '67" LP-length fan-mix that I did, I placed "He Gives Speeches/Wonderful" as one track in between "Cabin Essence" and "Good Vibrations", with GV closing my "side one" and it made for a very natural progression of musical/lyrical thematics.

You guys have really got me rethinking Wonderful. I still see it mostly as about a young woman coping with rape, and perhaps an attack on the hippie idea of free love and dont trust anyone over 30. But taken as a wider metaphor for the rape of America by the Europeans is a fascinating interpretation. I still think it sounds kinda bad coming after Cabin Essence, but perhaps coming right after Worms wouldnt be such a bad idea? It'd sound good coming after that piano outro and be thematically linked. I appreciate the inspiration. I also appreciate that you found a way to make GV not seem like such an odd man out. I never really thought it belonged with the other tracks, but now you got me thinking...

Quick question about what's been booted for False Barnyard. On Project Smile, there's a FB session where Brian is directing Carl with some bg vocals, but I haven't heard a version with those vocals properly included. The TSS version doesn't include these vocals either. Is a there a version out there that does?

Id like an answer to this as well.

In the sessions for OMP, Brian sings the classic lyrics "The old master painter from the faraway hills..." Do you think this means there were definitely vocals that were supposed to go there or was he just singing that to give the musicians an idea of the sound he was looking for?

Hard to say - he seems to be singing it to emphasize how he wanted the line played ("it should sound far away").  But just the fact that he brings up lyrics at all makes me think that he may have intended to record them being sung with the cello.  Plus, for what it's worth, he sang the lyrics at least once at a BWPS show.

My recollection is, someone (I think it might have been for the Earcandy site) interviewed Brian before one of the 2004 shows, asked about the OMP lyrics, Brian said that OMP was not meant to have vocals and then, with typical Brian perversity, sang the lyrics that night and every other night for the rest of the tour (I heard him do it in LA).

Absolutely classic Brian. The King of the Trolls, the textbook definition of the eccentric genius. For my money, OMP ought to have had lyrics. Why not? Plus, it really would give the song an entirely new and deep meaning I never considered before until now. SMiLE was all about a teenage symphony to God, exploring alternate ideologies and spiritualities and the like. At least, that's my take on it. What if the OMP/YAMS connection wasnt just some arbitrary pairing of standards? I should have given Brian and VDP more credit than that... YAMS, sung in the past-tense and thus given the feeling of sadness and loss...this is incredibly significant coming after OMP. It's about Brian losing his faith. Maybe not doubting the existence or motivation of God necessarily, but of the traditional Western beliefs and mythology of him. I can't believe I never considered this before, but now that I have, it gives me 100x more respect for a track I always considered expendable before. I now understand better why Brian called this "the big finale" because it really does tie the whole conflicting themes of the album together. I think this new revelation solves the SMiLE conundrum of how all these seemingly random tracks and ideas were supposed to fit as part of a larger whole.



Anyway, I dont think Great Shape or Barnyard deserve to be on any SMiLE in their present state. Why two random fragments as tracks? Makes no sense. I think if the Capitol list is accurate, and Great Shape was track, it'd have been a medley of what became the more tangential Heroes segments, including I guess, Barnyard. I think OMP/YAMS would have been a separate thing and not part of this suite, tho.


Title: Re: TSS - All things \
Post by: Been Too Long on January 16, 2015, 09:17:18 AM
I just wonder if the vocals were meant to go on top of the sax line or somewhere else. It's a damn shame we don't have any official vocals for IIGS, Look, etc.

FWIW the lost I'm In Great Shape vocal session was recorded 10 days *before* the short 'eggs & grits' backing track takes. Whatever was recorded at that vocal session most likely wasn't intended to go on top of the 'eggs & grits' instrumental.

Were OMP and IWBA already in the can by this point? My memory's fuzzy on that. Could explain a LOT if this vocal session survived. I wonder if the Great Shape medley as it exists on BWPS is vintage then? I wonder if Do A Lot started as a H&V fragment or was repurposed as one from Great Shape, similar to Bicycle Rider.

I always wondered whether it was supposed to be acapella in the first place - block chords in harmonies....

Just going by the lyric, I had thought the whole "Sleep a lot, eat a lot..." bit was "I'm In Great Shape" before I knew better. I now wonder if Brian ever considered using the "sleep a lot" bit to flesh out a complete "I'm In Great Shape" track.

To tie this into my earlier comment, I think that Do A Lot chorus really makes sense as Great Shape too. Those lyrics fit perfectly with the track title and demo vocals. We know that chorus didnt belong in Veggies until that song became a single. Then it was given a chorus similar to how Heroes was given one. The question is whether Do A Lot began as part of Heroes or GS, but even that isnt totally important because Great Shape itself was a Heroes fragment spun off into its own song. It's reasonable other H&V fragments were spun off into it too.

When that Heroes demo first showed up on Endless Harmony there was a lot of discussion about how that fit into the timeline.

So there is that May 66 recording of heroes, then from summer 66 through the first part of October sessions and recordings  for:
Good Vibs, Wind Chimes, Wonderful, Speeches, Holidays, Look/I Ran, Prayer, Cabin Essence/Home on the Range, Child, and Worms.

Then the I’m in Great Shape vocal session.

Then the first Heroes session (including the tracking for Barnyard)

Then the Beach Boys leave for Europe.

Then, a week later, the next Heroes session, this one including the tracking we have heard for Great Shape.

A week later Brian plays the demo version for Humble Harv.

Through November he records Surf’s Up and My Only Sunshine/Old Master Painter.

The Beach Boys return.

Then sessions held for The Elements(part one) and Friday Night (I’m in great shape) along with vocals for OMP, Cabin and Child last week of November -first week December.

Then, the tracklist gets to Capitol around Dec 10th? Includes Great Shape as its own track.

Then more vocal sessions: Heroes, Surf’s Up, etc. to the end of December.

January 3rd ‘67 Heroes vocal session includes first known recording of “Do A Lot” (in E major, if I remember correctly, same key as Vega-Tables)

January, February ’67 mostly Heroes sessions (with no sign of Great Shape)

April ’67 Vegetable sessions and then the album is scrapped.
_________________________________________

So what does it mean?

Well that Great Shape vocal session happened so early in the Smile timeframe that it not only predates stuff like OMP, Friday Night, and Do A Lot; it also predates any Heroes session (except the May 66 attempt.) So if taken as a Heroes section, the Great Shape vocal session is the first thing recorded for Heroes and Villains but, then not called Heroes and Villains?

The assumption has been made that Great Shape started as its own track; late October/ early November, Brian toys with the idea of using part/all of it as a bridge for Heroes and Villains, then end of November it’s back to being its own track and is listed on the tracklist to Capitol. By the end of November things had been settled for the album according to Vosse, Van Dyke, and maybe Brian, and none of the later stuff for Heroes includes Great Shape, but around the time of the Heroes demo recording things were still in flux (“We’re still working”.)

The idea that “Do A Lot” was part or even all of Great Shape I remember being around before the demo recording turned up in 1998. It was the idea that Great Shape must be a fitness themed track but now we know it has more to do with farming and agriculture like the new found Child vocals. It was kind of a guess, something to take the place of that track because nothing else existed to fill its slot even if it doesn’t make sense since the first known recording of Do A lot doesn’t happen until 67, two and half months after that Great Shape vocal session.

So what was that October I’m in Great Shape vocal session? Either something recorded to one of the previous to Oct 17th recorded titles, acapella vocals, Brian piano track with vocals, or something recorded to some track from an unknown tracking session. Still really a mystery.


Title: Re: TSS - All things \
Post by: Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard on January 16, 2015, 12:57:54 PM
I just wonder if the vocals were meant to go on top of the sax line or somewhere else. It's a damn shame we don't have any official vocals for IIGS, Look, etc.

FWIW the lost I'm In Great Shape vocal session was recorded 10 days *before* the short 'eggs & grits' backing track takes. Whatever was recorded at that vocal session most likely wasn't intended to go on top of the 'eggs & grits' instrumental.

Were OMP and IWBA already in the can by this point? My memory's fuzzy on that. Could explain a LOT if this vocal session survived. I wonder if the Great Shape medley as it exists on BWPS is vintage then? I wonder if Do A Lot started as a H&V fragment or was repurposed as one from Great Shape, similar to Bicycle Rider.

I always wondered whether it was supposed to be acapella in the first place - block chords in harmonies....

Just going by the lyric, I had thought the whole "Sleep a lot, eat a lot..." bit was "I'm In Great Shape" before I knew better. I now wonder if Brian ever considered using the "sleep a lot" bit to flesh out a complete "I'm In Great Shape" track.

To tie this into my earlier comment, I think that Do A Lot chorus really makes sense as Great Shape too. Those lyrics fit perfectly with the track title and demo vocals. We know that chorus didnt belong in Veggies until that song became a single. Then it was given a chorus similar to how Heroes was given one. The question is whether Do A Lot began as part of Heroes or GS, but even that isnt totally important because Great Shape itself was a Heroes fragment spun off into its own song. It's reasonable other H&V fragments were spun off into it too.

When that Heroes demo first showed up on Endless Harmony there was a lot of discussion about how that fit into the timeline.

So there is that May 66 recording of heroes, then from summer 66 through the first part of October sessions and recordings  for:
Good Vibs, Wind Chimes, Wonderful, Speeches, Holidays, Look/I Ran, Prayer, Cabin Essence/Home on the Range, Child, and Worms.

Then the I’m in Great Shape vocal session.

Then the first Heroes session (including the tracking for Barnyard)

Then the Beach Boys leave for Europe.

Then, a week later, the next Heroes session, this one including the tracking we have heard for Great Shape.

A week later Brian plays the demo version for Humble Harv.

Through November he records Surf’s Up and My Only Sunshine/Old Master Painter.

The Beach Boys return.

Then sessions held for The Elements(part one) and Friday Night (I’m in great shape) along with vocals for OMP, Cabin and Child last week of November -first week December.

Then, the tracklist gets to Capitol around Dec 10th? Includes Great Shape as its own track.

Then more vocal sessions: Heroes, Surf’s Up, etc. to the end of December.

January 3rd ‘67 Heroes vocal session includes first known recording of “Do A Lot” (in E major, if I remember correctly, same key as Vega-Tables)

January, February ’67 mostly Heroes sessions (with no sign of Great Shape)

April ’67 Vegetable sessions and then the album is scrapped.
_________________________________________

So what does it mean?

Well that Great Shape vocal session happened so early in the Smile timeframe that it not only predates stuff like OMP, Friday Night, and Do A Lot; it also predates any Heroes session (except the May 66 attempt.) So if taken as a Heroes section, the Great Shape vocal session is the first thing recorded for Heroes and Villains but, then not called Heroes and Villains?

The assumption has been made that Great Shape started as its own track; late October/ early November, Brian toys with the idea of using part/all of it as a bridge for Heroes and Villains, then end of November it’s back to being its own track and is listed on the tracklist to Capitol. By the end of November things had been settled for the album according to Vosse, Van Dyke, and maybe Brian, and none of the later stuff for Heroes includes Great Shape, but around the time of the Heroes demo recording things were still in flux (“We’re still working”.)

The idea that “Do A Lot” was part or even all of Great Shape I remember being around before the demo recording turned up in 1998. It was the idea that Great Shape must be a fitness themed track but now we know it has more to do with farming and agriculture like the new found Child vocals. It was kind of a guess, something to take the place of that track because nothing else existed to fill its slot even if it doesn’t make sense since the first known recording of Do A lot doesn’t happen until 67, two and half months after that Great Shape vocal session.

So what was that October I’m in Great Shape vocal session? Either something recorded to one of the previous to Oct 17th recorded titles, acapella vocals, Brian piano track with vocals, or something recorded to some track from an unknown tracking session. Still really a mystery.


Thanks for summing it up like that, even though it just made me really confused.


Title: Re: TSS - All things \
Post by: rattfink on September 08, 2015, 06:41:07 AM
Has anyone heard the Durrie Parks acetate of IIGS? The way it's described is much different than what the box has and I am curious if anyone could verify this.


Title: Re: TSS - All things \
Post by: Mujan, 8@$+@Rc| of a Blue Wizard on September 10, 2015, 02:46:26 PM
Has anyone heard the Durrie Parks acetate of IIGS? The way it's described is much different than what the box has and I am curious if anyone could verify this.

I've heard it's part of Heroes. Same lyrics but with H&V instrumentation


Title: Re: TSS - All things \
Post by: zosobird on July 20, 2016, 02:14:20 PM
I'm in Great Shape works perfectly without vocals. It makes for a great instrumental. I would use iTunes edit to isolate it from the sessions, but the fadeout wont't allow for it. If anyone could post IIGS as an instrumental here, that would be awesome.

the instrumental IIGS is widely available...it's on the sessions on the box set (several takes) and of course on lots of bootlegs


Title: Re: TSS - All things \
Post by: leetwall97 on September 08, 2016, 01:49:22 PM
I'd like to believe that the Friday Night, Barnyard, My Only Sunshine mashup Michael Vosse described was the Barnyard Suite, yet Brian re-wrote Barnyard into the Barnyard BIlly thing. The question is, which one do we use?



Title: Re: TSS - All things \
Post by: Nile on November 16, 2016, 05:50:42 AM
Does anyone of you, guys, know did Dennis's vocal on Sunshine was mixed like that (kind of muddy...) or is ti like that because the only surviving vocal tape is from acetate??


Title: Re: TSS - All things \
Post by: mike moseley on November 21, 2016, 03:12:14 AM
I think that would have be IIGS - only my opinion but seems plausible.

Barnyard Billy was just a throwaway thing Brian said in the 90s.


I'd like to believe that the Friday Night, Barnyard, My Only Sunshine mashup Michael Vosse described was the Barnyard Suite, yet Brian re-wrote Barnyard into the Barnyard BIlly thing. The question is, which one do we use?




Title: Re: TSS - All things \
Post by: Bicyclerider on September 06, 2018, 08:19:55 AM
Has anyone heard the Durrie Parks acetate of IIGS? The way it's described is much different than what the box has and I am curious if anyone could verify this.

I haven't heard it but have corresponded with someone who has.  The great shape track is a completely different instrumental arrangement to the one on the box set, edited into the harpsichord “my children were raised . . . often wise” Heroes section followed by the “three score and five” instrumental section.  It was recorded Dec 19th and the session and final take are missing and hence not on the box set, and have never been booted either.


Title: Re: TSS - All things \
Post by: Mr. Tiger on December 09, 2018, 02:48:11 PM
I'm in Great Shape incorporating a newly discovered fragment:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qn_cKOJRiXE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qn_cKOJRiXE)


Title: Re: TSS - All things \
Post by: JK on December 10, 2018, 02:06:34 PM
I'm in Great Shape incorporating a newly discovered fragment:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qn_cKOJRiXE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qn_cKOJRiXE)

Fascinating. Love that string bass! ::)


Title: Re: TSS - All things \
Post by: c-man on December 27, 2018, 03:46:13 PM
I'm in Great Shape incorporating a newly discovered fragment:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qn_cKOJRiXE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qn_cKOJRiXE)

Fascinating. Love that string bass! ::)

Yeah, that's pretty good!


Title: Re: TSS - All things \
Post by: Bicyclerider on January 16, 2019, 11:09:41 AM
I'm in Great Shape incorporating a newly discovered fragment:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qn_cKOJRiXE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qn_cKOJRiXE)

Using the new section as the tag seems to work pretty well.  The vocals don't work too well over it because it seems too fast to me - so maybe it was meant to be a tag or transition from Great Shape to My Children were Raised . . .