The Smiley Smile Message Board

I hate mono audio. to me it makes it seem low-fi even if it isnt. who's gonna piece together a stereo mix from the box set?

No.

Also, disc 1 is likely in mono out of necessity much more so than "It's what Brian would have done in '67." Some of this stuff is impossible to mix in stereo, period.

Regardless, nothing "lo-fi" about mono. I'm sure many bad "stereo for the sake of stereo" fan mix attempts will be made.

I respectfully disagree on this.  With the tools today, I am sure anything could receive a stereo mix.  Hell, we probably could even do 5.1 mixes.

Just listen to the stereo H&V versus the mono mix on TSS.

D'you even know much about these "tools today"? Only so much can be done, especially in some cases, and just because you can mix something in stereo doesn't mean it won't sound like dicks because you're forcing something that isn't supposed to be.

I'd rather a solid mono mix than a ridiculous amount of phasing etc. that comes with attempting to make something stereo that isn't, using chorus for "fake stereo", etc. What's the point? It sounds awful 9 times out of 10, and that 10th time still doesn't sound that good.

What about the stereo "Heroes And Villains" versus the mono mix on TSS? The multitracks, in some form, still exist for "Heroes And Villains". There was no modern technological trickery involved, there.

i'm sure that you won't need to manually put together a stereo mix, just put together a playlist replacing the mono tracks with available stereo tracks from the other discs

Easy 'nough imo. This is basically what I intend to do when there are legit stereo versions available. Thankfully, it seems as though when there were stereo takes available, they made other discs on TSS, so yer straight, really.

From an audio engineering point of view, requesting SMiLE in stereo shows a lack of understanding of the way these audio sessions were recorded. In mono, it's absolutely imperative to get your bass levels correct otherwise your trebles will take over on the mix, hence why so many sixties songs sound 'tinny'. But you don't get that with the Beach Boys (or Beatles) recordings right? No way, would I opt to lose out on the way the bass and brass have been mixed during the Pet Sounds/SMiLE era.

I personally prefer the stereo remixes just because they sound clearer and more "open". I know there is a "mono is king" cult among BBs fans, but a lot of the stuff on Today, Summer Days, PS, Smile stuff, Smiley, and Wild Honey seem way too muddy sounding to me.

In stereo, as a producer, you certainly have more space to balance the mix of your song. Another interesting thing to reflect on is the fact that the songs from the Pet Sounds era were mixed for listening on a average mono home LP Hi-Fi system. This current mix of SMiLE is totally different to that era from the sixties. Today, pop songs have to be mixed to sound good on anything ranging from the geek-type hi-fidelity audio surround set-ups to listening on iPods. Hence, Alan Boyd's recent statement on how hard the mix was on SMiLE. Apart from putting the fragments together, getting that balance right also would have been a long drawn-out process.

It's not so much a "mono is always better" thing. If a good stereo mix exists of a Beach Boys song, then that's usually the one I'll go for. I just saw a ton of complaints made over the first disc of TSS being in mono. Some of this stuff just can not be made stereo in any decent manner, and I think it's okay to be able to live with that rather than try to force anything. If a fanmix has a track in stereo going into another track that's mono, it's not the end of the world.

Just the same, I don't like the mentality of mono always being inferior or of lower quality. That's not how it is, imo.

I realize mono was the standard in the 60s and that the old style stereo mixes leave a lot to be desired. But its not just BBs in mono that frustrates me...a lot of Motown, Stax, Spector, girl group stuff, etc. cries out for the remix treatment.

Where? Here or Hoffman no doubt!

OK-let's see a show of hands for good ol' DUOPHONIC! I said hands, not obscene gestures. All you young whipper-snappers here never had to deal with much of that electronic reprocessing b/s very much-consider yourselves blessed. Capitol loved doing just that to BB albums-I don't remember any Beatle albums with that treatment-usually they were in stereo. Try finding an old copy of PS in duophonic-tell me what you think-glad those days are long behind us all! :spin

Trust me, the mono mix on CD1 is so damn good, you'll forget it's not stereo.

Well from 1st nov we will see a stereo Smile won't we?. A lot of the tracks are mixed into stereo as extra tracks on the box set as for the rest of the tracks I'm sure their will be fan mixes with music. From this and the sessions too. I can't wait to make my own up (for personal use only of course) ;)

On thing I would have liked to be included extra are some clean mono and stereo mixes of some of the songs (Look without the flow in vocals, Holidays without the ending vocals, etc). I'm going to make a disc using the stereo session material (the master takes) and edit them out of the sessions and give them a basic fade out, and include a mono and a stereo mix.

I'm sure there will be some new stereo album mixes made by fans, and I hope some of them may be as good (or even better) as Purple Chick's stereo mix. The advantage of having this new disc 1 mix is that a new, complete fan mix doesn't have to use parts of BWPS.

I know a stereo mix of "Holidays" sans flown in vocals is on the box set. Could be true for "Look", too.


Having excellent source material in 2011 is gonna drastically improve fan mixes.

Anyone else here reading this with their lower jaw in their lap ? 5CDs of material and you want more ?  Move over, Oliver twist...

O, I really, really didn't mean to sound spoiled or unsatisfied with what we get. I am very happy that TSS is coming out, I'm totally happy with what I get, but just like some people would have wanted the CIFOTM mono mix to be included, I just named a few things that would have made TSS box set extra good for me.

You need to spend less time hanging out with that Cohen dude.  ;D

Mono - pah.

Old stuff sucks.

Weren't people stupid in the old days eh?

WRONG

Mono is an art form, to be appreciated by those of us with ears.

A crisper yet rounded sound. Depth is the key rather than width.

Purple Chick set the standard for me with his Smile reconstruction. Just imagine how an improved stereo fan mix by Purple Chick himself would sound with this new, upgraded source material.

In any case, the reconstruction on disc 1 is going to be some sort of definitive mix for me. I think it's just great to finally have a finished, official Smile cd, standing next to all the other Beach Boys albums.

You definitely need to hear JMZ's SMiLE mix then - much better stereo. Purple Chick is kinda clunky and the pitch shifts f*ck me off.

Yeah, I have it. It's a great fan mix, some stereo tracks sound really good.

When I got the Beatles Mono box I finally got mono. There is something special, focused and more powerful about the sound. Stoked that the disc 1 approximation of Smile is going to be this way.

Good call. Pure, punchy mono is a treat; it's different, but not worse than stereo. Just play mono Motown vinyl and you know why it bewitched tens of millions of dancing people on the planet.

And the mono Pet Sounds over the stereo all the way.

The stereo mix, I played it non stop for about a month, then put it away never to hear again. It was a curio. I never heard anything new in it that I hadn't already heard in the mono, but it was easier to hear details. You have to put the work in with mono when you want to hear details, as everything is working together to create a sound, much more in keeping with the PS ethos. Far more rewarding IMP. Stereo makes your ears lazy.

Nice remarks. I am reminded of the fact that initially I was a bit wary of re-releases of old classical recordings on CD. But when mastered right... they're to die for. Stuff from the '20s and '30s? No problem, just listen to Edwin Fischer's 'Well-Tempered Clavier' on the Naxos Historical label. Marvelous.  And 'stereolising' these would constitute a crime.

I totally agree with this. Many stereo mixes are mixed too wide, or too much in the left or right ear. Any song always sounds good in mono.

There were so many way too wide stereo mixes in the first years of CD... I often thought: why is the bass player 10 miles to the left, and the keyboard woman 15 to the right of me? IIRC some Michael Jackson stuff was atrocious.

A lot of the early Beatles 'stereo' was crap, and as someone memorably noted of some Stones mixes, "there are holes you could deliver a fridge through".

Strictly speaking, the BB's stereo mixes 1963-64 aren't mixes at all: Chuck balanced and EQ'd the raw 3-track session tapes and Shazam ! stereo !

Methinks that "Shazam stereo" would be a good way to describe Chuck's "stereo" mixes.

 :lol haha... let's TM this one (or rather, AGD should) before the Hoffmen grab it... and that 'fridge' remark by AGD really made me laugh.

Not before long, Capitol will replace 'Duophonic Stereo' with 'Shazam Stereo'.

wat

Can't count how many stereo mixes from the 60s that I've done fold downs of just because of how ridiculous the stereo separation was on it. I was trying to tell my girlfriend how the Beatles mono box set was worth the time just as much as the stereo, how some of the stereo mixes of those albums are ballz, and just got a, "I'd rather it be in stereo and sound like that than it just be in mono." I don't get it :\

Even my own stuff, the only tracks that see much panning are when I've recorded something with multiple mics or, in rare cases, if something has been triple-tracked with one each channel and one that sits in the center. I love stereo and the atmosphere it can bring when done well, but even on modern recordings, I can't stand it when a guitar or keyboard part just suddenly leaps out of the left or right channel due to hard panning >: (

Ah, see....sometimes I hard pan the bass just because it's such a no no.

Gotta break those rulz Hoffman

ur teh real rebel every damn day imo

It's a cross I bear well.

I'm such a rebel I obey rules that most other people break.

I'm super normal

Isnt there only a couple songs in stereo though? Hereoes and villains, vegetables (and thats just for vinyl)... do the sessions disks have full songs on them? i thought that was all gonna be, well, sessions? like just instruments, and only for certain parts at a time

Same here. I used to be on the "mono sucks" bandwagon until I finally listened to The Beatles in Mono. The mono mixes just pack so much more of a punch, at least in The Beatles case. Also, I can't stand the old practice of keeping the vocals all on one side of a stereo mix, which is how a lot of The Beatles stereo tracks are.

That said, if a good stereo mix exists, then I'm more likely to choose that over mono.

Please tell me your name is an Earthbound reference.

In order of importance to me (most to least):

1. Balance
2. Clarity
3. Spatial depth

It's interesting to see how modern-day remixes of both Beach Boys and Beatles material aren't afraid of embracing that center channel. It's not like the 60's, where the goal seemed to be to make everything as wide as possible.

The best remixes -- especially what comes from the Beatles and the Beach Boys -- figure out how to strike for 1 and 2, and when possible, some of 3.

i'll tell you if you give me a ruler and a skip sandwich