The Smiley Smile Message Board

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-15363393 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-15363393)

Concise and does the job!  Good collection of clips and the first public airings of Fire & Brian Falls in to the Piano.

Shame about the major factual errors... but balanced by Brian stating that it was drugs and his & Van Dyke's decision that put paid to the project, with no mention of the evil Mike Love. That'll piss off the more rabid blooies.  ;D

Well that's because Mike was standing off camera with his lawyer and an "Mike Loves SMiLE" T-Shirt on (or should that be "Mike Love's SMiLE?)

Great stuff - cheers for posting!

1969 eh?

You mean he was actually trapped between the B and the B-flat?

They talk like "Brian Farts Into His Piano" was supposed to be the lead single or something as opposed to he and his friends dicking around.

Yeah would've been nice to showcase some of the more impressive unknown songs, but seems the crazy, drug-fuelled angle was the one they wanted to take here.

That too.

The 1969 comment seems to have been replaced!

I'll have some of whatever Brian's having.

Interesting comments by Brian. He's given some of his best interviews this year for sure. Has opened up more.

Does the b-flat have a kitchen and a bathroom?

Nice there's another film on the right called "The truth about raw carrots"! :-D

Brian handles this very well. But egads: this doesn't make me love the popular press any better. That whole pandering-to-public-preconceptions* thing always bugs the hell out of me.

*Sincere apologies for suddenly channeling Spiro Agnew there.

Hrm?

A-sharp!

Brian is always good for some interesting comments, but Brian's explanation about how the drugs were the cause of the project's non-completion is quite misleading.  We've all heard these sessions, and aside from that "Our Prayer" session we all know and love, Brian is always in control and gets more accomplished than anyone on drugs ever could.  If he had referred to the drug use in a more general way, talking about how the effects they had on his overall state of mind which in turn played a role in the project being shelved, I could buy that.  But as Vosse and Van Dyke have alluded to, when you look at the amount of work that was done in a relatively short period of time, you really can't say that drugs impeded things from a production standpoint.

Same goes for the "too advanced" line that Brian always trots out now - reading the contemporary interviews, it's clear that Brian wanted to advance music beyond where it had been.  He knew that the scene was changing and that he had to be first with the "new sound."  He talks about going past Spector, creating a white spiritual sound and "scaring a whole lot of people when (he) gets there."  It would be more accurate to say that Brian just lost confidence in himself and, in turn, Smile.  I think that Brian saying that it was "too advanced" is his way of sugar-coating the severe mental decline he suffered that caused him to kill the project.  Not that I blame him, mind you - it's much easier to say the music was too advanced than to talk about some very painful memories associated with that time period.  It doesn't tell the whole story though, and I wish there was a way we could get more of that beyond the typical surface-level comments we always hear.

Brian looks pretty tired..

Nice piece anyway, you can't go wrong with any of that footage

Now wait a minute...  you don't seriously believe that Van Dyke was in on the decision to scrap the project, do you?   I'm pretty sure Van Dyke doesn't believe this, since Van Dyke has previously said that he was fired from the project after Mike questioned his lyrics.  This, to me, is just Brian once again blowing smoke over the real reason for the stillbirth -- the same thing he has done for so many years.


Love and merci,   Dan Lega

Meaning Mike Love?

Where did VDP state that he was fired? Was he?

Brian and anyone else involved has never given a solid, single reason as to why it was abandoned. It was a combination of things. How is he "blowing smoke over" it?

I don't recall reading VDP was fired when Mike questioned his lyrics (nonsense anyway, given that he was around long after the "Cabin Essence" vocal sessions), rather that he walked out in a huff in early 1967, stayed away for a couple of weeks, came back, realised it was going nowhere and accepted Warners' offer of a solo deal.

Sounds like what I figure. Van Dyke, although he would have loved it to happen, could not influence a Smile release in '67 any more than Mike, Al, Carl, Dennis, Bruce or Al. It was Brian's decision.

Those two thoughts don't line up. I agree that Brian decided to pull the plug. Sure he did. But that's not to say that no one else had any influence on him. And if everyone had been eager and thrilled about his musical direction, pushing him forward, would he really have made the same decision?

Who knows. But I think it's clear that the static around Brian -- from the business, his bandmates and short-term friends -- had a detrimental impact on the project.

Sorry, a little bleary atm. But I think Brian was declining anyway - The huge amount of 'single' sessions as opposed to completing an album in '67, say - and after a certain point in time he convinced himself. We can accuse Mike, but he's all over SMiLE! The man was not abandoning a lot of vocal sessions*. Possibly, in an about turn from my last post, Van Dyke abandoning it could have been a decisive blow for the album.


I think we might agree. I'm on some strong painkillers at the moment. It is affecting my SMiLE sense!  ;D

*I'm now thinking of Beautiful Dreamer and am losing track of the customary pinch of salt one should take with it.

In no particular order:

a) Brian had no fucking idea how to put this sh*t together - too open ended, couldn't decide which structures were best, etc.
b) Van Dyke jumping ship
c) Drugs
d) Varying degrees of opposition from Capitol, Murry, Mike, etc.
e) Worsening mental condition

But mostly A.

How's this still being argued about?

Cos it's this board?  ;D

My answer for the SMiLE question is this: BOK- Brian only knows :hat

All the above is true - but Brian either can't or doesn't want to deal with the uncomfortable truths as noted above in a public setting, thus the single sentence explanation that the music was too advanced and they kept it under wraps for 40 years until the public at large could appreciate the music.  He likes simple, clean, and concise answers in these interviews because lunch is waiting.

True, I s'pose, but I feel like he's basically said everything I said over time. Even the "too advanced" thing plays into him collapsing under his own ideas. I mean it's not just this that Brian gives short and simple answers to over the last 15-20 years, it's basically everything, so I don't think he's being intentionally evasive or "scripted" with the answer to why Smile didn't work out.

man, ive been trying to watch this since 4am this morning. all i get is a red circle going round and round but no video will start to play. oh well, maybe some day.. :)

666 posts. The devil is working against you, son.

Absolutely the guy never gives much more than a single sentence answer to anything ever - I think he thinks that the "too advanced" answer plays well and that's what he sticks with.  Has Charley Rose ever interviewed Brian?

Ask, and ye shall receive.

http://www.charlierose.com/view/interview/641

Someone should ask Brian if he thinks the smile music was more advanced than Strawberry Fields Forever or Sgt. Pepper.  If he says no, then ask why does he think it shouldn't have been released, when the Beatles released their "advanced" music?  Shoots a hole right through that argument.  Of course, if he answers yes, the interviewer could ask why he wouldn't want to release it to "beat " the Beatles at their own game.

Too advanced for Mike Love?  Definitely.  Capitol?  Probably, but they would have released a finished Smile album without hesitation.

I agree the number one reason was Brian lost the thread and got caught up in a crazy pursuit of unattainable perfection, rerecording sections and adding new sections to the point where he couldn't put Heroes or Vegetables together in a way that satisfied him.  He needed to junk everything he'd done (well almost everything) and start fresh.

Brian needs to finish his rock and roll album he keeps talking about in interviews like this one. ;D

I tend to combine (a) and (e) together, and I would swap the positions of (c) and (d), but this hits all the main points about as well as possible.  The main thread that runs through all of them is lost confidence.  A big part of why Brian was so good in the past was that he knew what had to be done, and went into the studio knowing full well what he had to do, and always made it happen.  This confidence peaked in the fall of '66 after the success of "Good Vibrations," but as we know, it all turned around rather abruptly.

Brian's increasing drug use exacerbated his already-in-progress mental decline.  Combine that with his group, to whom he'd just handed a number-one single on a silver platter (with some excellent lyrical help from Mike, no doubt), fighting his new ideas more than ever before.  Before you know it, Brian is starting to question the quality of the work he's doing, something that had never happened before.  Nothing is good enough for very long, and he's re-recording sections for no good reason and (supposedly) junking entire mixes because a random stranger off the street doesn't like it.  Van Dyke's departures would serve as another blow, as Brian may very well have interpreted that as Van Dyke losing confidence in his collaborator's ability to finish the project.  Brian takes the general lack of support coming at him from all angles to mean that he might not be on the right track after all.  He keeps working, keeps recording, but isn't getting the same satisfaction out of it as he used to. 

What I'm (hopefully) getting at is that Brian forgot how great the music was, and after months of trying to finish it to his satisfaction, he eventually just said "screw it" and gave up.  Not because he thought it was "too advanced," but because he knew that he could labor on it for another year and still probably wouldn't get anywhere.  In his mind, he'd bit off more than he could chew.  I don't think that was true though - under different circumstances, with more support, I think Brian could have completed Smile in a manner that would have been artistically satisfying to him in the way that "Good Vibrations" was.

Sorry for the rambling, hope that makes some kind of sense!

Not sure if this has already been posted in this or another thread, but there's also a page on BBC news that paraphrases the interview:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-15366913

Kind of a shame that they focus so much on Brian's mental state and the craziness of the project (Brian falls into a piano/microphone mentioned twice!) rather than what also makes it special, but let's hope there's a review soon that touches on that stuff.

I think it emphasises the mad 60s period and the wild creativity in doing so though, so I'm not too dischuffed at the Beeb. Bring it on!

Makes perfect sense IMHO.

A very intelligent and accurate post, thank you.

Does make you wonder about Brian - even he seems to be forgetting why the project was abandoned. Its not too many drugs, its him repeating too many of other people's cliches, and he does seem almost to believe what he's saying.