The Smiley Smile Message Board

What do you think of the reunited Beach Boys or BW's band doing "sherry she needs me" as a suprise change up song to freshen up the setlist. I think the "she says she needs me" is one of the highlights of Imagination because young Brian did most of the work back in the day.

SMiLE Brian, I really love that song! I love the '65 version, the '76 version, and the 1998 version. I would love to hear a version done live by Brian and his band. The '65 version is great, albeit unfinished, and hard to beat. It shoulda been finished. Brian's falsetto on that was superb. A lot went into the 1976 version and I'm not sure why it wasn't released. The re-write with Carl-Bayer Sager is also very well done with a better vocal obviously than the '76 version. I think that song would go over real well if Brian did it live! 

I've got something I could insert into Sherry, Sandy too...  >:D :angel:

I'd really enjoy that.

One of my favs from Imagination....and Brian sounds just like Brian of the mid-60s on that one.

Just take off "i'm bugged at my old man" off "Summer Days" and put "Sherry she needs me" on it and you have an album that would rival "Today!". Jeff loves that period of BW's music anyway, so i think there is a chance it could happen.

That song would've fit nicely on an album with The Little Girl I Once Knew, California Girls, Summer Means New Love, And Your Dreams Come True, Girl Don't Tell Me... etc

Today is good as it is with In The Back of My Mind being the last song... very good ending , f*** A Day In The Life

SMiLE Brian, a little input to your fine thread here (in case you care about this kinda stuff).

Notes from Mr. Boyd and partial interview with co-writer Russ Titleman:


From the logs on the original 1/2" tape boxes:

SHERRY SHE NEEDS ME.... backing track recorded March 29, 1965.

SANDY SHE NEEDS ME...... backing track, recorded May 4, 1965.

Sandy (rehearsals) 2:48
Sandy (track only) 3:07
Sandy (rehearsals) 2:40
Sandy (instrumental insert) 2:51
Sandy (chorus rehearsal) 0:48
Sandy (instrumental insert) 2:46
Sandy (1st vocal overdub) 2:46
Sandy (2nd vocal overdub) 2:48


After this session, the three track instrumental was bounced down to mono on another 1/2" reel, and the backing vocals were added the following day.

Chuck Britz engineered both sessions at Western Studio 3

The SHERRY backing track from March 1965 is the one that was later transferred to a 2" 16 track reel. The '76 Sherry track was dubbed over the '65 Sherry/Sandy track and more instruments were added. Although there's not a date on that one, I'm guessing Brian laid down the vocal in the fall of 1976 during sessions for what eventually became THE BEACH BOYS LOVE YOU. A rough mix was prepared at that time, and it's on a 1/4" reel with rough mixes of LAZY LIZZIE and MARILYN ROVELL.

In 1978, someone at Brother Studio tried their hand at another rough mix, and I think this is the one that's been circulating on bootlegs for the last 25 years or so (it's on the same reel as the first latter day rough mixes of SMILE era material, including FIRE, CAN'T WAIT TOO LONG, YOU ARE MY SUNSHINE, DO YOU LIKE WORMS and what we all used to call BARNYARD....in other words, that first batch of SMILE boots that began making the rounds many years ago)


Both "Sherry She Needs Me" and "Guess I'm Dumb" were written by Brian Wilson & Russ Titleman.

Brian was the producer for the March '65 Sherry sesssion (recorded during the Summer Days sessions) with 14 musicians present, including Billy Strange, Jerry Cole, Carol Kaye and Howard Roberts on guitars, Al DeLory and Leon Russell on pianos, Jimmy Bond on string bass, Steve Douglas, Jay Migliori, Billy Green, and Jack Nimitz on saxes, Ray Caton on trumpet, Steven Dweck on vibes, and Earl Palmer on drums & timbales.

Russ Titelman:

"I co-wrote a couple of songs with Brian Wilson, 'Sheri, She Needs Me' and 'Guess I'm Dumb'. Meeting Brian was part of being at Screen Gems, because Brian used to visit Lou Adler all the time in the L.A. office. I'd be around, too, and so I saw Brian a lot. I also used to go over to Brian's office, a big office in a bank building on the southeast corner of Sunset and Vine where he'd go to write songs. I'd also go over to Brian's Hollywood apartment, which was spartan to say the least, but he had a piano in there. He loved Jonathan Winters and he used to sit around and recite all the Winters bits and laugh his head off; he could do a real good imitation of Maudie Fricker. It was fun. 'Sheri, She Needs Me' was written on the piano at the house of his girlfriend, who became his wife, Marilyn. And 'Guess I'm Dumb' was written at Marilyn's and at his apartment.

One day when I visited Brian at the office, he was writing 'Fun, Fun, Fun', but the lyric he had at the time was 'Run, Run, Run'. He had a whole other lyric to it, and it was a good song that way, too! He was like a kid, going around barefoot in a T-shirt and jeans. I was never a fan of his early surfing records, but when he started idolizing Phil Spector and it was orchestral surf music, then I got interested in it. I loved the spontaneity of what was coming out of his head. Later, I thought 'Pet Sounds' was way ahead of anything of Phil's. As great as Phil was, his orchestrations were all the same kind of thing. But Brian's didn't have a formula!

Plus, I went to a few Beach Boys sessions with Brian, and he asked me to take a screwdriver and bang on a mike boom during 'She Knows Me Too Well'. That "tink-tink" you hear during the song, which sounds like a triangle, is me on screwdriver and mike boom. Ha Ha Ha!"

Uh, what about Amusement Parks USA?  You'd have to replace that with something too.  And you'd have to completely rewrite the Salt Lake City lyrics.

Amazing that one song could have some much awesome history behind it, thanks for the info Mikie.

I like "salt lake city" as it is, but I agree that "Amusement Parks USA" would have to go. I would totally re-sequence this album as well.

In the early 80's, Capitol shared your opinion. As part of their reissue series of Beach Boys albums, Summer Days (And Summer Nights!!) was retitled California Girls and had two tracks removed: "Amusement Parks, USA" and "I'm Bugged at My OL' Man".  Nothing replaced them - they just left them off!

I'm glad they were eventually reinstated for the 1990 Two-fers - true to the original album release. I could never see why "Amusement" was dropped; it's got a good backing track, good vocals and it's a fun "Summery" kind of song, appropriate for the album title but maybe just a tad sophomoric.

But yeah, bottom line, "Sherry/Sandy" should have been on the 'Summer Days' album.  I read somewhere that "Sherry" may have been intended for Glenn Campbell or someone else. Dunno if it's true.

My problem with "USA" were the shaky lyrics from Mike Love. Could see Glen or Brian doing the lead for "sherry" as well. I'm true to the original albums as well, but it would have been cool if the reissue albums had bonus tracks to replace the songs taken off.

You've heard the alternate lyrics to "Amusement Parks", haven't you?  Whatia think of those - any better or worse?

I think the alternate ones are worse in my opinion, the released version is as great as those lyrics are going to get. I just think the backing track is odd and hard to write lyrics to.

And you've heard the SOT APUSA session where Hal Blaine says his schtick about Stella the Snake Dancer? The whole thing without the fade?

Nah, I only heard the alternate version from a random unbooted tracks bootleg. Knowing Hal Blaine, it is probably hilariously dirty.

Sammy He needs me.... ;D ;D

I'd heard it was offered to Glen Campbell as well, but he chose "Guess I'm Dumb".

Fucking criminal that this one was never really properly completed. The 76 vocal just doesn't work and is frustrating to hear against the older backing track. Great song, but all you can do is listen to it and wish the vocal had been done sooner.

The Imagination version legit neuters the chorus to compensate for Brian's reduced range and has some somewhat derp lyrical changes. "Please keep your cool, dear, and I'll still be friends with you" is hilarious in that sort-of-sexist 70s Brian Wilson way, I'm not sure if it was from the original.

The arrangement on the Imagination version is also too... something for me, too. Too schmaltzy? Not sure if that's what I'm going for. The approach for that album and several albums after it is "This is Brian Wilson, this has to sound big and important," where as in '66, he was just a guy writing some damn fine songs.

I still feel like Brian could've put out another album to hold off Capitol while working on Smile of some unused material and maybe some stuff he was working on but didn't intend to put on Smile. "Sandy" could have been on that record. Alternately, it could have just been finished (along with a Beach Boys "Guess I'm Dumb") and put on Summer Days where it belonged in the first place.

I love this song. Hurts a lot that there's really no satisfactory version out there.

Amusement Parks USA is amaznig. What are you all on crack? It's a wild track. The mono mix is mind blowing. The buoyant voices merge into the instruments. Let's take you car and go to amusement parks USA... dundundundundudndudndudndndudn

YOU'LL CRASH AND BURN
- classic Mike Love vocal

In your language: wat

Those songs are not of the same BW mental era as Smile. If it was to put off Pet Sounds sure throw Sandy on a record. But Smile is a whole different beast thematically. It's not even in the same ballpark, Brian went abstract and he didn't come back until Wild Honey and even then it was in trail blazing psychedelic soul acid rock & roll.

Yeah, but not the kind you think!

wat

I was saying another record to get Capitol off his back, ala Party! to work on Pet Sounds longer, but this time with some stuff that didn't make it onto other albums such as "Sandy"/"Guess I'm Dumb". Of course it's nowhere near Smile in terms of quality of themes, of course he was in a different place at the time, but I doubt it would've been that difficult to put something together. It's not like he was no longer capable of "Sandy"-esque songs. Was the Party album on par with Pet Sounds?

No way. I think Amusement Parks USA is much better than Girl Don't Tell Me, which just sounds like a boring Beatles song. That one should've been replaced.
Amusement Parks is great! That Pet Sounds-y bassline that suddenly shows up after the last chorus.. Wow

The more classic era Beach Boys albums, the better. A stopgap album would amazing considering how much great stuff BW never released or finished in his prime.  Samples from a stop-gap album could include songs such as "all dressed up for school", "guess i'm dumb", "thank him", "sherry she needs me", "I do", " their hearts were full of spring," and a few covers.

Easier'n fallin' offa bike, amirite? Wouldn't have been difficult to pull off or even find a decent single from. Even if it was just a proper "rarities" record, it would've been great. "The Little Girl I Once Knew" would've been an obvious inclusion, as well.

"The Little Girl I Once Knew", keep forgeting that was only a single.

Does anyone know how far they got with "Terri, She Needs Me" during the BW88 sessions?

Thanks!

 This is probably acurate, but I really wish it was BRIAN WILSON & THE BEACH BOYS deciding what to play instead of the almighty Jeff Fosket.

Supposedly, the title was changed for the version (She Says That She Needs Me) on Imagination. Melinda found out that Brian use to have a girfriend named Sheri and didn't like it.

that must be the most re-recorded song of ANY BB song..
1.the first verison from the mid 60's (sandy)
2.the version from the late 60's (sherry)
3.the version from the late 70's (sherry)
4.Tricia (mike love solo same song different lyrics)
5.I've heard it was re-recorded in the mid-80's but I can't say for sure
6.she says she needs me (imagination)
7.she says she needs me (INSTRUMENTAL PROMO VERION?)

the only song I can think of that comes close is "back home"
1.early demo
2.mid-60's
3.late 60's
4.15 big ones

The track for Sherry came first first...recorded on 3/29/65

Then came Sandy...recorded with the group on 5/4/65

Then in the early '70s the Sherry track was copied and had vocals added in August of '76

cool thanks wasn't sure which version came first

Sickening.

Really hope Jeff isn't part of any reunion shows, although he likely will because everyone involved thinks his voice is the second coming of Brian's 60s voice. I have to assume these people are deaf. imo.

And Boyd says another attempt was made in 1978.  And again around 1988.

There was obviously more instruments added in '76 to the '65 instrumental track and/or the track was completely re-recorded in the mid-late 70's.

The backing track for Sherry has never been booted, so I'm not sure how you'd come to that conclusion.  What's heard on the '76 version sounds like vintage Brian wrecking crew arrangement to me.  This is also what c-man concluded in his research, which uses the unbooted session tape of the tracking session for reference.

I just ment that Jeff agreeing to do the high part in the song and helping rehearse the BW band , but your right, it should Brian and rest of the BBs recording it.
Al's son Matt would sound good as well doing the high part

What the heck is wrong with Melinda, Brian wrote that song in 1965 for crying out loud.

I wasn't discounting the fact that the instrumental track for Sherry was used for the '76 version. It just sounds to me like more instruments were added to it. Could be wrong on that, though. Again, Boyd said 1n 2007 that someone at Brother Studio tried their hand at yet another rough mix in 1978, which is the one circulating on boots.

Exactly. Jealousy over someone who your spouse dated essentially when he was a kid is a bit much. Jealousy to the extent of making him alter one of his songs from 1965 over it is beyond a bit much.

She made THE BRIAN WILSON change his lyrics.

 In my opinion, Matt Jardine can sing circles around Jeff.  I'd much ratehr have Matt present than Jeff.  Matt can do an awesome take on Warmth Of The Sun.

lawl, sarcasm?


Agreed = )

I was arguing the claim that instruments were overdubbed in '76...I don't think that's the case (though I could be wrong on that too).  Again, I'm basing that on c-man's research, as the tape to the original tracking session is unavailable to us.  :(


I've heard at least two mixes of Brian's '76 attempt at Sherry, one with the backing track in stereo the other with it in mono...both in so-so quality.  I think the original tape may be damaged or worn.

Nah, just trying to emphasize that a used car saleswomen got the greatest pop composer of the 20th century to change his lyrics.

:(

I've heard two versions too. Was just listening to one of them - a relatively clean version from Dumb Angel Rarities Volume 3.

what do you guys think of "Tricia"? it's obviously mike love tyrying to do "sherry"/"sandy" do he even give brian credit on that song?

Mine were old worn down versions from the Preiss tape and california feeling boots.

Good call. Never noticed it before, but the similarity is obvious now that you point it out.
That's why I love this board; no matter how many times I've heard the same songs, something new gets pointed out and totally changes things around for me!

The mix on DA Rarities is the same version found on SOT Vol. 20.  That mix has Brian + backing track in mono and the backing vocals slightly panned to the right (and a layer of bad tape noise buried in that channel).  This version has a proper fade, so it's likely the '78 mix Alan Boyd referred to.

I prefer the mix and quality of the version with the track in stereo/no fadeout, but I have no idea what boot that originated from.

What made Brian opt for using such an ancient track for a 76 vocal? Why not re-record it? I love the backing track, obviously, but a re-recording would make the version a lot less frustrating.

I know which one you're talking about. I know there's a difference. I'm gonna see if I can find it.

I do like the Dumb Angel version though. Very clear. It seems like the lead vocal was doubled. There's a couple of instances where he misses the sync (or maybe 'cause it's stereo?) You hear the old Brian in the high notes. He can still do it at that point.

Same here! First time I heard it was on a cassette tape in the early 80's. That tape source was the catylyst for a vinyl boot called "California Feeling" on the 'Brother Records' label. It had a picture of Dennis on the Harmony on the back cover I believe.

i love that era.  I wish Summer Days era had two albums. instead of party, another in summer days vein

The DA Rarities version is definitely the same mix as the version found on SOT...just volume adjusted and with a little hiss reduction.

The left channel is clean, but the channel with the BGV is bathed in tape noise and dropouts.  It's definitely something that would benefit greatly from an official release.


As much as I love portions of Party!, a late '65 album with The Little Girl I Once Knew, Sherry She Needs Me, Let Him Run Wild, Guess I'm Dumb, Three Blind Mice, Trombone Dixie, Sloop John B and songs of a similar vein is difficult not to fantasize about.  I guess that's why that "Remember The Zoo" myth was repeated so often.

Agreed. Much as JF has been a stalwart with the BBs and BW down the years, Matt's voice just matches the blend so much better. at the BW Manchester gig on Tuesday, the band harmonies were as good as I've heard them, but JF's falsetto over the top was like a fingernail on a blackboard by comparison. He sang lead on DWB and knocked it out of the park, as I believe you colonials say, but he frequently grated during the block harmonies, to my ears.

Erm, shouldn't this be in one o' them thar "Reunion" threads?  :lol

doubtful.

Well, blow me down, perhaps I wasn't there after all.   :-\

And Hushabye to name another.

Wait, it's a myth? I thought it was coming out after TSS!  :p

Would love to see the Wondermints (do they still exist?) cover "Sandy/Sherry/Terri" some day in the way they did "Guess I'm Dumb".

What's the "Remember the Zoo" myth about?  Something about the Pet Sounds photoshoot?

http://www.btinternet.com/~bellagio/unreleased.html

I know there's a lot of bonus tracks for the Today!/SUmmer Days twofer, but I'm really surprised the Sandy/She Needs Me sessions/track wasn't made available on the twofer

I'm guessing it didn't make the cut because it wasn't as "finished" as the other tracks, most of which were alternate versions or completed recordings. I would have loved to see it on there too though. I wonder why a lead vocal was never done and it was left unfinished in the first place?

The completed 1970s Brian showcase version could have taken the place of many a crappy song on the late 1970s albums.

agreed....It would have fit right in on Adult Child, with the whole big band/mature theme.


I think Brian shoulda released a Brian Loves You (solo album), either 2 LPs...first disc with older tunes (more with his original/sweeter voice) and the 2nd disc being with his more gruff voice...perhaps, if not a 2-disker, then just 1 LP with the first side of the earlier voice, then the 2nd side of the latter voice.
Ideal tracklistings are more than welcome!

Hoping for an official Adult/Child release or box set with tons of  unreleased late 1970s Brian or Beach Boys material. That stuff is so interesting because Brian was truly back working in studio with new and unique material until the band rejected Adult/Child.

There's no chance in hell a box set for Adult/Child will ever come out, especially not with that title...  :police:

Better chance than a Smiley smile box set.

Still I Dream of It is one of Brian's best songs, AND IT WASN'T EVEN RELEASED.

M.I.U ALBUM OVER ADULT CHILD IS CRAZY!!! WTF BOYS!?!?!

The second piano demo of "It's Over Now" is magic and better in every single way than the terrible version that did get an official release.

s'not so bad when you put it at the right speed. The demo/rehearsal/whatever version of Brian playing the song by himself on piano is indeed better, though, fuckups and all.

I too always wished someone would take the 65 Sandy track with partial vocals and just finish it using the 76 Sherri lyrics and melody. It's just sitting there, begging to be finished. I got tired of waiting so I thought I'd take a crack at it. I quickly discovered that the 76 version had 4 extra measures at the beginning (Brian starts singing on the pickup to verse 5,  i.e. a few notes before the 65 track even starts) and was in a different key/speed. I took cut two measure out of it, "fixed" the key/speed and put it into the beginning of the 65 track. It doesn't sound perfect, but it's all I had to work with. Then I tried to sit down and figure out Brian's chorus harmonies by ear. That quickly gave me a headache. I figured out part of them, then just decided to fill out the rest myself. I only have a handheld recorder (albeit decent quality) to work with and I was recording in front of my computer with one headphone on, so it sounds like I'm singing in my bathroom. Also, having only a handheld recorder and Audacity to work with, I had to assemble all the vocals manually. After making a test mixdown mp3, I noticed I was off on a few notes and Audacity had somehow brickwalled the chorus harmonies. When your off a little while doing 5 different vocal parts, it's pretty obvious. I reopened Audacity so I could figure out which one I messed up and redo it, but the file was corrupted and all my parts had been erased. I still had the raw wav files, but I didn't feel like spending another couple of hours resyncing them over a note or two.

Long story short, I'd love to hear some critiques of what I came up with. Do the harmonies sound close to right? Thanks

http://www.mediafire.com/?uzcqt6h8ffu0z8w

Good Job with giving a lead vocal to this song! :thumbsup

You have a great voice! It sounds alright, shame about the brickwalling

Brian's heart undoubtedly wasn't in huge orchestral productions by this point. Sherry's vocals could even be a simple matter of Brian randomly finding the tapes one day in the studio and deciding to finish it.

Something I've found eerie - You can hear Brian's classic voice at the end of the stereo version, the one with no fade out. Sure, he's only speaking to one of the engineer's and not singing, but it makes a frightening contrast to the '76 lead that preceded.

i hope one day i actually get to listen to "sherry says she needs me" :]

I noticed that, too. Made me feel somewhat sad the first time I heard it.

I wonder what it was like for Brian to hear at the end of doing the vocal :\